i wish my frontline surge can go through walls too
Lmao imagine that you're in rivenscar ruins, you cast FrontLine surge from your own node and hit the guy in the enemy's base through the wall and with range similar to Knight's Valor.
0
sidewazeMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 31Arc User
Oh god ! Are you really calling for a GF nerf ?!
That's great ! I've been hoping for something like this for at least 10 months. It feels good to not be the last in the pack anymore !
I'm not using KV, I play in PUG and it seems too dangerous. The combo you'e talking about is KV, Guarded Assault and supremacy of Steel.
And I'm not certain it's game breaking without the broken version of the dragon glyph (is it red ?), but it's nice to see a call for nerf.
Remember the GF also takes half the damage intercepted, and it's the glyphs that are borking this, not the effect itself. You COULD try to find the GF and take him out. Sorry there's no easybutton. Welcome to MOD 4.
Next thing we'll hear is "NERF sprint on GWFs. They're too fast for me to target."
It's a very powerful ability. I think it just needs to respect line of sight so there can at least be some counter play.
A GF on the other side of the map shouldn't be making his whole team take 50% less damage.
This. It just needs to actually respect LOS correctly. Once your out of range, it just splits damage with the ground instead of the GF - which needs to be fixed.
Also, something other classes DONT understand is once a GF is controlled it puts the ability on CD, so all you have to do is have a CW cost ray of frost (bull**** IMO) and pull the GF out of block, or run behind him and stun or prone and the ability is on CD, or a GWF can Roar and works too.
So there are ALOT of ways to cancel the effect and negate the bonus, just need to learn how it actually works....
Knights Valor FX covers the entire party in the same zone, it does not however intercept damage unless they are in a certain range. Its range is shorter then between #1 and #2 capture points of the smallest dominion map, and the biggest dominion map...from cap point #3 to #2 ..it stops around the archway.
As a GF, you would know this...as you can see when you start intercepting damage. As far as I know, Knights valor doesn't intercept damage if you are standing inside the spawncamp. I've had it on, sitting in the camp, as someone jumped out getting pounded by a group...at no point did Knights valor intercept damage until I jumped out to the battlefield with him.
However, this does not apply beyond a certain range, where the GF instead takes no damage while the buff still applies. As it is, the power basically doubles the health of teammates that aren't on the same node as the GF at no real cost.
Oh wow I didn't know that. Can't believe more GFs aren't using this. It's pretty OP even if the GF is taking half the damage (which he can block), but if it's just a "your team takes half damage as long as you're not near them at no cost to you" ability, obviously it's pretty messed up.
I also didn't know you can stun them out of it though, so that's somewhat helpful.
Knights Valor FX covers the entire party in the same zone, it does not however intercept damage unless they are in a certain range. Its range is shorter then between #1 and #2 capture points of the smallest dominion map, and the biggest dominion map...from cap point #3 to #2 ..it stops around the archway.
As a GF, you would know this...as you can see when you start intercepting damage.
Which is why, as I stated in my comment above, teams should GO FIND THE GF. Think of it as our PvP taunt - when that's up, you should be focusing on us. If you can't burn us down fast enough, that's us doing our job.
We are 'Guardian' Fighters. The ability doesn't work across the map. You can see the animation when we are intercepting dmg. While I agree a CD should be implemented, remember it also takes an Encounter Slot. If you mix in ITF, then we are left with one offensive ability. I'd say that's a fair trade off.
I don't use the Dragon Glyphs, but have Briartwine on my armor and so the Deflect makes up for it. Since I am specced in Tactician I also gain AP very fast with KV on as that path grants AP gain through dmg received. What makes it even more deadly is when SoS Daily gets used with KV.
GF is in a great place right now. It's the only class that can take up two roles in PVP right now. You are either a Conq and hitting hard, or you are a Defensive juggernaut. I chose the latter, and my Assists have sky rocketed. It's fun and truly the only way to counter the insane amount of ranged classes in this game.
BladeRunner-Proud member of the BlackCloaks.
0
hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
edited August 2014
Have to admit it's been pretty funny watching my team of unknowing pugs get entirely wiped out by this:)
Which is why, as I stated in my comment above, teams should GO FIND THE GF. Think of it as our PvP taunt - when that's up, you should be focusing on us. If you can't burn us down fast enough, that's us doing our job.
Counter play is good for the game, but not if you have to leave the node and go to another one to find the GF.
Pretty obvious a GF shouldn't make his team twice as strong when he's nowhere to be seen.
This. It just needs to actually respect LOS correctly. Once your out of range, it just splits damage with the ground instead of the GF - which needs to be fixed.
Please do not skip this, read this before you make a post, and preferably don't make a post after it.
Ok guys who have been getting destroyed by GF's. Pull up your panties, and slide the big boy pants on so we can have a chat. I know your GWF's and HR's are not happy. Heck, even face rolling CW's can't mash an at-will anymore, it's rough, but just hang on a sec.
KV has always worked this way, the only difference is it is given a toggle. And once taken off, it's not 2 seconds whoever said that, please just go away. It's 8 seconds.
So here is what the issue is, yes I know what it is. i've played a GF since daaaaaayyyyy 1. Ok here we go.
What you guys see
Blue rays of light, slower pc's are jacked up now because it causes frames to drop and you end up taking all this whack damage from nowhere. That is the Glyph's that cryptic introduced and can't seem to figure out how to get an ICD to work. It's ok, it takes them a while to fix anything in pvp, because we don't matter to 95% of the rest of the game. So you are taking this blue stuff, and you see another guy, he's blue too. But your not dealing very much damage, and the damage you do isn't hurting him????
What is happening
You are hitting an enemy with Knight's Valor on him from the Guardian. He is blocking (probably has shield talent on as well) and that is proc'ing his guarded assault, which is then reflecting literally no damage back at you, it's just an annoying light. If he has Supremacy of Steel on it, it will proc weapon enchants, WOOOOO - again not much damage, our weapon damage is so low that you don't have to worry.
WHAT YOU DO HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT
Each of those blue rays, is proc'ing both glyphs, so instead of taking around 50-100 damage since mitigation and tenacity destroy all reflect not to mention lifesteal + regen +incoming healing bonus.... it doesn't do anything lol... BUT, the glyphs proc and you take 400 per lessor or 600 per greater, maybe it's 800, I only buy lessers cause I'm cheap, and they both proc, so EACH blue ray proc's two glyphs turning seemingly no damage at all into your life bar in about 10 seconds.
How to fix it?
First and foremost, remove the glyphs from pvp or deactivate them upon joining until you can get your minds around the enchant. (i hit you, you take way too much damage, tough concept) - regardless.
Change the LOS on the KV to be actual LOS. and not my render scale is maxed, I'm zoomed out to 450 line of site. For an example make it about the same as Into the Fray. About 1.5 nodes worth of diameter. Upon exiting this distance you lose KV, but re-entering applies it back onto you.
Glyph's out of the picture, you guys are taking practically zero damage from the GF and his ability, it's nerfing your damage more than anything, but most fail to see that as they die from the glyph's. This combo is a perfect harmony with protectors who have NEVER had a very good reason to be a protector until now, so if you take this away, I promise you, you will really hurt the dying GF community
How to Avoid KV
I'm sure you all know that GF's are one of the most bugged classes in the game. Our mechanics are clankier than ever. Our shield randomly will just drop. Like I'm not kidding. Tons of moves lower our guard, and ANY daze will remove KV. Any stun will remove KV. I'm actually pained to say this, but repel even removes KV.
So.... Rather than QQ in the spawn, if you would just try and beat it, and learn.... you could, and it has been beaten. GF's and their abilities are not the problem. It's a broken enchant that made them a problem.
Yes, line of sight needs toned down... But that is it. 1.5x the diameter of a node, keep it alllllllll the same. Glyphs get removed or deactivated, and there you have it folks. Problem is solved. GF's can still be a tank, you can remove the KV as long as you use a littttttle skill, for CW's just hold left click, then hit Q to choke the GF and it's gone.
Please don't post anymore until you read this, and don't ask for a nerf, just realize that I am right, and that this is what needs to happen because I promise I know more about a Guardian that 99.99999999% of you guys here. Ok maybe an exaggeration, but really I promise I am not bs'ing you to keep my class like a mod 2 gwf, or HR in mod 3/4 because we're not. I'm just trying to keep us from being in another state of uselessness as were have been for around 8-10 months.
I've been waiting for the ''plox nerf GF'' threads. It took a while.
The concern with this one is it will negatively affect PVE. Right now we can actually protect our party in PVE, especially in a fight like Draco, so nerfing this power because of PVP will seriously degrade PVE performance.
Fyi I do not like turtle style gameplay which is what this skill promotes wayyy too much.
So because you don't like it it must be nerfed? LOL! That is quite something.
I'm also a GF and I do not play a turtle, but that does not mean the option should not exist for those that do want to be turtles.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Also the gf takes dmg from all party members while using this so without another gf or a cleric then he will die easy.
This.
Like Knight's Challenege, KV is a high riks-high reward encounter. Awesome when it pays off, but it can also get you killed fast. And if the GF is trapped in a fight himslef, KV becomes a problem as he'll be taking party damage and his own damage while having one less encounter slotted to fight back.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Like Knight's Challenege, KV is a high riks-high reward encounter. Awesome when it pays off, but it can also get you killed fast. And if the GF is trapped in a fight himslef, KV becomes a problem as he'll be taking party damage and his own damage while having one less encounter slotted to fight back.
+1 to this . I can't believe that people are literally QQing about a class doing what it's supposed to do. What next? QQing about a DC healing? Oh wait...
As was said KC and KV are awesome encounters for helping your team. They're also going to cause your death when things go sour. My PVP specced GF loved KC. Pre tenacity, lunging strike could 1 shot small hp targets, and a follow up Bulls Charge often finished the job. It also saved a teammate getting beatdown by halving damage. But it potentially hurt me by doubling damage to me... Not to mention halving my damage to everyone else. High risk/high reward indeed.
Point is, don't harsh on the GF for doing his job. Ask for balance, but don't QQ for nerf. Ask for a compromising solution.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Yes as the topic suggests this is currently the "buggy" skill of the week, month, hopefully not year.
A GF can kill an entire enemy team by holding his shield up guarding his alliances. That skill covers the complete battleground, im not sure if these GFS use Dragon Glyphs or not, but it defineatly makes it worse.
Supremacy of steel, their daily or whatever it is called, is stacking with this buff. So anyone attacking the alliance of the GF gets attacked back with insane force. Its not even funny. Seriously.
The KV range is stupid, the rest is WAI. They need to alter it to either respect line of sight or simply bind it to a certain radius around the GF. Also its important to note that PUG GFs dont use this encounter, any smart GF should know his team before using KV. So the op is about the top 1-2% of premade PVP. This I believe is vital and people should not neglect to point it out when making a point.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Please do not skip this, read this before you make a post, and preferably don't make a post after it.
Ok guys who have been getting destroyed by GF's. Pull up your panties, and slide the big boy pants on so we can have a chat. I know your GWF's and HR's are not happy. Heck, even face rolling CW's can't mash an at-will anymore, it's rough, but just hang on a sec.
KV has always worked this way, the only difference is it is given a toggle. And once taken off, it's not 2 seconds whoever said that, please just go away. It's 8 seconds.
So here is what the issue is, yes I know what it is. i've played a GF since daaaaaayyyyy 1. Ok here we go.
What you guys see
Blue rays of light, slower pc's are jacked up now because it causes frames to drop and you end up taking all this whack damage from nowhere. That is the Glyph's that cryptic introduced and can't seem to figure out how to get an ICD to work. It's ok, it takes them a while to fix anything in pvp, because we don't matter to 95% of the rest of the game. So you are taking this blue stuff, and you see another guy, he's blue too. But your not dealing very much damage, and the damage you do isn't hurting him????
What is happening
You are hitting an enemy with Knight's Valor on him from the Guardian. He is blocking (probably has shield talent on as well) and that is proc'ing his guarded assault, which is then reflecting literally no damage back at you, it's just an annoying light. If he has Supremacy of Steel on it, it will proc weapon enchants, WOOOOO - again not much damage, our weapon damage is so low that you don't have to worry.
WHAT YOU DO HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT
Each of those blue rays, is proc'ing both glyphs, so instead of taking around 50-100 damage since mitigation and tenacity destroy all reflect not to mention lifesteal + regen +incoming healing bonus.... it doesn't do anything lol... BUT, the glyphs proc and you take 400 per lessor or 600 per greater, maybe it's 800, I only buy lessers cause I'm cheap, and they both proc, so EACH blue ray proc's two glyphs turning seemingly no damage at all into your life bar in about 10 seconds.
How to fix it?
First and foremost, remove the glyphs from pvp or deactivate them upon joining until you can get your minds around the enchant. (i hit you, you take way too much damage, tough concept) - regardless.
Change the LOS on the KV to be actual LOS. and not my render scale is maxed, I'm zoomed out to 450 line of site. For an example make it about the same as Into the Fray. About 1.5 nodes worth of diameter. Upon exiting this distance you lose KV, but re-entering applies it back onto you.
Glyph's out of the picture, you guys are taking practically zero damage from the GF and his ability, it's nerfing your damage more than anything, but most fail to see that as they die from the glyph's. This combo is a perfect harmony with protectors who have NEVER had a very good reason to be a protector until now, so if you take this away, I promise you, you will really hurt the dying GF community
How to Avoid KV
I'm sure you all know that GF's are one of the most bugged classes in the game. Our mechanics are clankier than ever. Our shield randomly will just drop. Like I'm not kidding. Tons of moves lower our guard, and ANY daze will remove KV. Any stun will remove KV. I'm actually pained to say this, but repel even removes KV.
So.... Rather than QQ in the spawn, if you would just try and beat it, and learn.... you could, and it has been beaten. GF's and their abilities are not the problem. It's a broken enchant that made them a problem.
Yes, line of sight needs toned down... But that is it. 1.5x the diameter of a node, keep it alllllllll the same. Glyphs get removed or deactivated, and there you have it folks. Problem is solved. GF's can still be a tank, you can remove the KV as long as you use a littttttle skill, for CW's just hold left click, then hit Q to choke the GF and it's gone.
Please don't post anymore until you read this, and don't ask for a nerf, just realize that I am right, and that this is what needs to happen because I promise I know more about a Guardian that 99.99999999% of you guys here. Ok maybe an exaggeration, but really I promise I am not bs'ing you to keep my class like a mod 2 gwf, or HR in mod 3/4 because we're not. I'm just trying to keep us from being in another state of uselessness as were have been for around 8-10 months.
Yes, line of sight needs toned down... But that is it. 1.5x the diameter of a node, keep it alllllllll the same. Glyphs get removed or deactivated, and there you have it folks. Problem is solved. GF's can still be a tank, you can remove the KV as long as you use a littttttle skill, for CW's just hold left click, then hit Q to choke the GF and it's gone.
Please don't post anymore until you read this, and don't ask for a nerf, just realize that I am right, and that this is what needs to happen because I promise I know more about a Guardian that 99.99999999% of you guys here. Ok maybe an exaggeration, but really I promise I am not bs'ing you to keep my class like a mod 2 gwf, or HR in mod 3/4 because we're not. I'm just trying to keep us from being in another state of uselessness as were have been for around 8-10 months.
Thank you
Read it. And you're wrong. the KV diameter needs to be more than your 1.5 x node. Why?
Not everyone is a pvp junky.
We need full LOS to be relevant in large pve boss fights.
I was 100000% speaking about for pvp. I think it's fine for PVE.
Unfortunately as we've all seen in the past, changes meant for PvP affect PvE and vice versa. Apparently, you can't have a change on one without it being changed on the other. I wish they'd perform some kind of check to determine which environment you're in before any "adjustments" take effect.
+1 to this . I can't believe that people are literally QQing about a class doing what it's supposed to do. What next? QQing about a DC healing? Oh wait...
As was said KC and KV are awesome encounters for helping your team. They're also going to cause your death when things go sour. My PVP specced GF loved KC. Pre tenacity, lunging strike could 1 shot small hp targets, and a follow up Bulls Charge often finished the job. It also saved a teammate getting beatdown by halving damage. But it potentially hurt me by doubling damage to me... Not to mention halving my damage to everyone else. High risk/high reward indeed.
Point is, don't harsh on the GF for doing his job. Ask for balance, but don't QQ for nerf. Ask for a compromising solution.
How can it get you killed fast if you take no damage if you're far enough away?
Nobody is saying anything about nerfing the ability when there is an actual risk/reward element to it.
A min/maxing smart GF (honestly not sure if there are that many based on one's I've played with) would just go camp a node away from his team with kv on. His team takes half damage, he receives none of it. Throw on blue dragon glyph and the thing is totally overpowered beyond belief.
No 1 player should be able to have a huge presence on two nodes at the same time like this.
+1 to this . I can't believe that people are literally QQing about a class doing what it's supposed to do. What next? QQing about a DC healing? Oh wait...
As was said KC and KV are awesome encounters for helping your team. They're also going to cause your death when things go sour. My PVP specced GF loved KC. Pre tenacity, lunging strike could 1 shot small hp targets, and a follow up Bulls Charge often finished the job. It also saved a teammate getting beatdown by halving damage. But it potentially hurt me by doubling damage to me... Not to mention halving my damage to everyone else. High risk/high reward indeed.
Point is, don't harsh on the GF for doing his job. Ask for balance, but don't QQ for nerf. Ask for a compromising solution.
It's one thing to defend balance, it's quite another thing to defend absurd mechanics. In M3 I advocated that GFs should be given a vast increase in mobility when blocking, defense potential from blocking far beyond GWF unstoppble, and a damage increase to suit there low movement speed. This all despite the fact that it made any decently played GF all but unkillable to my class - Trickster rogue. Which I see as mostly due to the gross imbalance and weakness within my own class. However, you do not defend absurd mechanics or you end up with the following scenerio - 50 soul puppets, buffed by KV, reflecting glyph damage. I do not know the class inside and out, but I que enough PVP matches to see absurd mechanics at play.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: This power now has a maximum range of 150' and requires line of sight to affect an ally.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: While this power is toggled on and the Guardian Fighter loses targeting of all allies, the visual effect now pulses to warn the player that no allies are affected.
Comments
A GF on the other side of the map shouldn't be making his whole team take 50% less damage.
Lmao imagine that you're in rivenscar ruins, you cast FrontLine surge from your own node and hit the guy in the enemy's base through the wall and with range similar to Knight's Valor.
Next thing we'll hear is "NERF sprint on GWFs. They're too fast for me to target."
PS it's the Blue Dragon glyph I believe.
- Brazil PvP Fraternité -
Rank 7
This. It just needs to actually respect LOS correctly. Once your out of range, it just splits damage with the ground instead of the GF - which needs to be fixed.
Also, something other classes DONT understand is once a GF is controlled it puts the ability on CD, so all you have to do is have a CW cost ray of frost (bull**** IMO) and pull the GF out of block, or run behind him and stun or prone and the ability is on CD, or a GWF can Roar and works too.
So there are ALOT of ways to cancel the effect and negate the bonus, just need to learn how it actually works....
As a GF, you would know this...as you can see when you start intercepting damage. As far as I know, Knights valor doesn't intercept damage if you are standing inside the spawncamp. I've had it on, sitting in the camp, as someone jumped out getting pounded by a group...at no point did Knights valor intercept damage until I jumped out to the battlefield with him.
Oh wow I didn't know that. Can't believe more GFs aren't using this. It's pretty OP even if the GF is taking half the damage (which he can block), but if it's just a "your team takes half damage as long as you're not near them at no cost to you" ability, obviously it's pretty messed up.
I also didn't know you can stun them out of it though, so that's somewhat helpful.
I don't use the Dragon Glyphs, but have Briartwine on my armor and so the Deflect makes up for it. Since I am specced in Tactician I also gain AP very fast with KV on as that path grants AP gain through dmg received. What makes it even more deadly is when SoS Daily gets used with KV.
GF is in a great place right now. It's the only class that can take up two roles in PVP right now. You are either a Conq and hitting hard, or you are a Defensive juggernaut. I chose the latter, and my Assists have sky rocketed. It's fun and truly the only way to counter the insane amount of ranged classes in this game.
It should follow line of sight.
Pretty obvious a GF shouldn't make his team twice as strong when he's nowhere to be seen.
This, definitely.
Ok guys who have been getting destroyed by GF's. Pull up your panties, and slide the big boy pants on so we can have a chat. I know your GWF's and HR's are not happy. Heck, even face rolling CW's can't mash an at-will anymore, it's rough, but just hang on a sec.
KV has always worked this way, the only difference is it is given a toggle. And once taken off, it's not 2 seconds whoever said that, please just go away. It's 8 seconds.
So here is what the issue is, yes I know what it is. i've played a GF since daaaaaayyyyy 1. Ok here we go.
What you guys see
Blue rays of light, slower pc's are jacked up now because it causes frames to drop and you end up taking all this whack damage from nowhere. That is the Glyph's that cryptic introduced and can't seem to figure out how to get an ICD to work. It's ok, it takes them a while to fix anything in pvp, because we don't matter to 95% of the rest of the game. So you are taking this blue stuff, and you see another guy, he's blue too. But your not dealing very much damage, and the damage you do isn't hurting him????
What is happening
You are hitting an enemy with Knight's Valor on him from the Guardian. He is blocking (probably has shield talent on as well) and that is proc'ing his guarded assault, which is then reflecting literally no damage back at you, it's just an annoying light. If he has Supremacy of Steel on it, it will proc weapon enchants, WOOOOO - again not much damage, our weapon damage is so low that you don't have to worry.
WHAT YOU DO HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT
Each of those blue rays, is proc'ing both glyphs, so instead of taking around 50-100 damage since mitigation and tenacity destroy all reflect not to mention lifesteal + regen +incoming healing bonus.... it doesn't do anything lol... BUT, the glyphs proc and you take 400 per lessor or 600 per greater, maybe it's 800, I only buy lessers cause I'm cheap, and they both proc, so EACH blue ray proc's two glyphs turning seemingly no damage at all into your life bar in about 10 seconds.
How to fix it?
First and foremost, remove the glyphs from pvp or deactivate them upon joining until you can get your minds around the enchant. (i hit you, you take way too much damage, tough concept) - regardless.
Change the LOS on the KV to be actual LOS. and not my render scale is maxed, I'm zoomed out to 450 line of site. For an example make it about the same as Into the Fray. About 1.5 nodes worth of diameter. Upon exiting this distance you lose KV, but re-entering applies it back onto you.
Glyph's out of the picture, you guys are taking practically zero damage from the GF and his ability, it's nerfing your damage more than anything, but most fail to see that as they die from the glyph's. This combo is a perfect harmony with protectors who have NEVER had a very good reason to be a protector until now, so if you take this away, I promise you, you will really hurt the dying GF community
How to Avoid KV
I'm sure you all know that GF's are one of the most bugged classes in the game. Our mechanics are clankier than ever. Our shield randomly will just drop. Like I'm not kidding. Tons of moves lower our guard, and ANY daze will remove KV. Any stun will remove KV. I'm actually pained to say this, but repel even removes KV.
So.... Rather than QQ in the spawn, if you would just try and beat it, and learn.... you could, and it has been beaten. GF's and their abilities are not the problem. It's a broken enchant that made them a problem.
Yes, line of sight needs toned down... But that is it. 1.5x the diameter of a node, keep it alllllllll the same. Glyphs get removed or deactivated, and there you have it folks. Problem is solved. GF's can still be a tank, you can remove the KV as long as you use a littttttle skill, for CW's just hold left click, then hit Q to choke the GF and it's gone.
Please don't post anymore until you read this, and don't ask for a nerf, just realize that I am right, and that this is what needs to happen because I promise I know more about a Guardian that 99.99999999% of you guys here. Ok maybe an exaggeration, but really I promise I am not bs'ing you to keep my class like a mod 2 gwf, or HR in mod 3/4 because we're not. I'm just trying to keep us from being in another state of uselessness as were have been for around 8-10 months.
Thank you
The concern with this one is it will negatively affect PVE. Right now we can actually protect our party in PVE, especially in a fight like Draco, so nerfing this power because of PVP will seriously degrade PVE performance.
So because you don't like it it must be nerfed? LOL! That is quite something.
I'm also a GF and I do not play a turtle, but that does not mean the option should not exist for those that do want to be turtles.
This.
Like Knight's Challenege, KV is a high riks-high reward encounter. Awesome when it pays off, but it can also get you killed fast. And if the GF is trapped in a fight himslef, KV becomes a problem as he'll be taking party damage and his own damage while having one less encounter slotted to fight back.
+1 to this
As was said KC and KV are awesome encounters for helping your team. They're also going to cause your death when things go sour. My PVP specced GF loved KC. Pre tenacity, lunging strike could 1 shot small hp targets, and a follow up Bulls Charge often finished the job. It also saved a teammate getting beatdown by halving damage. But it potentially hurt me by doubling damage to me... Not to mention halving my damage to everyone else. High risk/high reward indeed.
Point is, don't harsh on the GF for doing his job. Ask for balance, but don't QQ for nerf. Ask for a compromising solution.
The KV range is stupid, the rest is WAI. They need to alter it to either respect line of sight or simply bind it to a certain radius around the GF. Also its important to note that PUG GFs dont use this encounter, any smart GF should know his team before using KV. So the op is about the top 1-2% of premade PVP. This I believe is vital and people should not neglect to point it out when making a point.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Ok guys who have been getting destroyed by GF's. Pull up your panties, and slide the big boy pants on so we can have a chat. I know your GWF's and HR's are not happy. Heck, even face rolling CW's can't mash an at-will anymore, it's rough, but just hang on a sec.
KV has always worked this way, the only difference is it is given a toggle. And once taken off, it's not 2 seconds whoever said that, please just go away. It's 8 seconds.
So here is what the issue is, yes I know what it is. i've played a GF since daaaaaayyyyy 1. Ok here we go.
What you guys see
Blue rays of light, slower pc's are jacked up now because it causes frames to drop and you end up taking all this whack damage from nowhere. That is the Glyph's that cryptic introduced and can't seem to figure out how to get an ICD to work. It's ok, it takes them a while to fix anything in pvp, because we don't matter to 95% of the rest of the game. So you are taking this blue stuff, and you see another guy, he's blue too. But your not dealing very much damage, and the damage you do isn't hurting him????
What is happening
You are hitting an enemy with Knight's Valor on him from the Guardian. He is blocking (probably has shield talent on as well) and that is proc'ing his guarded assault, which is then reflecting literally no damage back at you, it's just an annoying light. If he has Supremacy of Steel on it, it will proc weapon enchants, WOOOOO - again not much damage, our weapon damage is so low that you don't have to worry.
WHAT YOU DO HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT
Each of those blue rays, is proc'ing both glyphs, so instead of taking around 50-100 damage since mitigation and tenacity destroy all reflect not to mention lifesteal + regen +incoming healing bonus.... it doesn't do anything lol... BUT, the glyphs proc and you take 400 per lessor or 600 per greater, maybe it's 800, I only buy lessers cause I'm cheap, and they both proc, so EACH blue ray proc's two glyphs turning seemingly no damage at all into your life bar in about 10 seconds.
How to fix it?
First and foremost, remove the glyphs from pvp or deactivate them upon joining until you can get your minds around the enchant. (i hit you, you take way too much damage, tough concept) - regardless.
Change the LOS on the KV to be actual LOS. and not my render scale is maxed, I'm zoomed out to 450 line of site. For an example make it about the same as Into the Fray. About 1.5 nodes worth of diameter. Upon exiting this distance you lose KV, but re-entering applies it back onto you.
Glyph's out of the picture, you guys are taking practically zero damage from the GF and his ability, it's nerfing your damage more than anything, but most fail to see that as they die from the glyph's. This combo is a perfect harmony with protectors who have NEVER had a very good reason to be a protector until now, so if you take this away, I promise you, you will really hurt the dying GF community
How to Avoid KV
I'm sure you all know that GF's are one of the most bugged classes in the game. Our mechanics are clankier than ever. Our shield randomly will just drop. Like I'm not kidding. Tons of moves lower our guard, and ANY daze will remove KV. Any stun will remove KV. I'm actually pained to say this, but repel even removes KV.
So.... Rather than QQ in the spawn, if you would just try and beat it, and learn.... you could, and it has been beaten. GF's and their abilities are not the problem. It's a broken enchant that made them a problem.
Yes, line of sight needs toned down... But that is it. 1.5x the diameter of a node, keep it alllllllll the same. Glyphs get removed or deactivated, and there you have it folks. Problem is solved. GF's can still be a tank, you can remove the KV as long as you use a littttttle skill, for CW's just hold left click, then hit Q to choke the GF and it's gone.
Please don't post anymore until you read this, and don't ask for a nerf, just realize that I am right, and that this is what needs to happen because I promise I know more about a Guardian that 99.99999999% of you guys here. Ok maybe an exaggeration, but really I promise I am not bs'ing you to keep my class like a mod 2 gwf, or HR in mod 3/4 because we're not. I'm just trying to keep us from being in another state of uselessness as were have been for around 8-10 months.
Thank you
Take your 'fix' and go back to playing your cheesy Storm Spell clone of every other CW out there.
Read it. And you're wrong. the KV diameter needs to be more than your 1.5 x node. Why?
Not everyone is a pvp junky.
We need full LOS to be relevant in large pve boss fights.
KV isn't the problem. pvp is the problem.
Easy fix:
Remove pvp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKW1BG_Jxl0
You can add your glyphs, briartwines, guarded assaults to what I showed there for better effect.
Unfortunately as we've all seen in the past, changes meant for PvP affect PvE and vice versa. Apparently, you can't have a change on one without it being changed on the other. I wish they'd perform some kind of check to determine which environment you're in before any "adjustments" take effect.
How can it get you killed fast if you take no damage if you're far enough away?
Nobody is saying anything about nerfing the ability when there is an actual risk/reward element to it.
A min/maxing smart GF (honestly not sure if there are that many based on one's I've played with) would just go camp a node away from his team with kv on. His team takes half damage, he receives none of it. Throw on blue dragon glyph and the thing is totally overpowered beyond belief.
No 1 player should be able to have a huge presence on two nodes at the same time like this.
It's one thing to defend balance, it's quite another thing to defend absurd mechanics. In M3 I advocated that GFs should be given a vast increase in mobility when blocking, defense potential from blocking far beyond GWF unstoppble, and a damage increase to suit there low movement speed. This all despite the fact that it made any decently played GF all but unkillable to my class - Trickster rogue. Which I see as mostly due to the gross imbalance and weakness within my own class. However, you do not defend absurd mechanics or you end up with the following scenerio - 50 soul puppets, buffed by KV, reflecting glyph damage. I do not know the class inside and out, but I que enough PVP matches to see absurd mechanics at play.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?747131-Tyranny-of-Dragons-Preview-Patch-Notes-NW-25-20140820a-5&p=8880141&viewfull=1#post8880141
Cool beans. It's still a really good ability and I wish more GFs would use it (the ones on my team, not the other ones).