All of this is spot on. Im with the game since it started, I play only fighters and I know the stages the GWF went tru. Currently my GWF is 17k, my GF is 15.2. Its pretty shocking to see my Destroyer easily climb to 31K HP with just 2 pieces of Grim Sentinel gear while losing almost nothing of his damage. If I was willing to give up some more crit and power ( As I have alot of both ) I could probably have a Destroyer with 40k HP who still can muster a reliable 20K+ crit with IBS, nice eh ?
The GF on the other hand has laughable +health on the profound/grim sets. Has useless crit rate ( even 3000 isnt enought to ensure reliable crits ). Has issues stacking ArmPen and if he manages to get 2000 crit/armpen and also wants recovery/regen/power he is pretty much stuck at low HP. Did I mention that his deflect is also low despite having more deflect rate than my GWF..
try this gear on the GF: 2 pieces of purified helm and bracers + 2 pieces of profound perserver armour and feet + purified black ice neck , rings of dexterous and sinister + sorcerous belt .+ exquisite pants and shirt + corrupted black ice weapons + 3 artefacts (waters , thayan book and tactician banner ) go full CON and DEX (but roll a character having alot of CON/DEX) and what you;ve got for now 3 offense slots and 6 defense slots , put radiants on defense slot and on offense Armorpen/azure , as weapon enchantment gplaguefire/pterror/pholly/pfeytouch , as armour ench pbarkshield / frostburn , on overload 800armp/crit or armp/power, depends on how you like, and the boons but them in a tankier way ... if this build can't rock on PVP and be tanky enough in PVE , then you guys dont need to come here to whine..
going sword master paragon : you use lunging strike, flourin , anvil for stuns , and as class feats steel grace steel defense, and it's a matter how you play cause you build fast ap so you have alot of ap skills ... and if you do a rotation you can 1vs1 different classes and you don't die.. that's the idea, he can't kill you ... and if that doesn't help, only devs need to put more damage in their skills and that's all ..
and GWF for PVe , you forgot that in a run he gets alot of buffs from cleric/cw and the mobs are debuffed from cws ... so yeah it does alot of damage because of that, dont you think so ?
GWF won't hit the same damage in PVP as they do in PVP , they max crit 20k crit on weaker players who don't have defense/tenacity on them, but on pvp tr/hr/cw they hit max 5k-10k
so then again, why do they need to nerf alot from gwf side, when the only problem everyone complains is roar? and why does they need to change TAkedown from prone to stun , isn't Takedown means to take someone down? geezas... and if you changed roar who coulde've stun people , how can i catch players who dodgie alot tr/hr/ dc/cw ? geez ...
General
Determination gain will no longer be subject to variance. This will make Determination gain more normalized.
DEFINE NORMALIZED?
Powers
Mark: Mark will now taunt foes briefly as well as place the player at the top of the threat list.
Roar: This power has been fixed to no longer silence opponents for 2 seconds. Instead it correctly interrupts power usage. If a power is successfully interrupted, that power will be locked out for 2 seconds. This effect will no longer pierce CC immunity. Roar will no longer Root players for 2 seconds.
this is OKai.
Unstoppable: Unstoppable now grants 5~10% damage resist when activated (down from 25~50%)
i wonder why now? and who did think they change this?
Takedown: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
this should be prone, you did change the roar, that was the problem, or change the name of the skill TAKE STUN!!
Takedown: This power now deals ~30% less damage.
this is useless too .. rarerly people hitted 8k with takedown, RARERLY
Iron Vanguard: Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
this doesn't make sense, here again...
Iron Vanguard: Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which refresh every 9 seconds.
FIX THE ANIMATION ... refresh at 9 sec? this depends on REcovery too ?
Feats
Sentinel's Aegis: This feat now causes Unstoppable to grant 5 times more damage resistance in addition to its other effects.
this is good , but fix the Restoring Strike so that people can hit 8-9k in pvp, cause it's a broken skill in pvp ... so it's simple imo make Sentinel Aegis more Attractive to GWF PVP players so you would have 2 different gwf Destroyer for PVE and Sentinel for PVP
try this gear on the GF: 2 pieces of purified helm and bracers + 2 pieces of profound perserver armour and feet + purified black ice neck , rings of dexterous and sinister + sorcerous belt .+ exquisite pants and shirt + corrupted black ice weapons + 3 artefacts (waters , thayan book and tactician banner ) go full CON and DEX (but roll a character having alot of DEX) and what you;ve got for now 3 offense slots and 6 defense slots , put radiants on defense slot and on offense Armorpen/azure , as weapon enchantment gplaguefire/pterror/pholly/pfeytouch , as armour ench pbarkshield / frostburn , on overload 800armp/crit or armp/power, depends on how you like, and the boons but them in a tankier way ... if this build can't rock on PVP and be tanky enough in PVE , then you guys dont need to come here to whine..
and GWF for PVe , you forgot that in a run he gets alot of buffs from cleric/cw and the mobs are debuffed from cws ... so yeah it does alot of damage because of that, dont you think so ?
Conqueror/protector/tactician? Doesn't really matter though, because the setup you just mentioned is terrible for PvP. A GF needs > shield talent + a set with a + guard meter bonus, at least 5k power, 30% deflect 10% lifesteal, ~3500 defense and 22-25% critical rate in order to be tanky as a burst/dps focused build. HP isn't really needed on a GF, as i mentioned before and should be the lowest of all stats (CON).
Thread title states "Official Feedback Thread: Great Weapon Fighter Changes." Can we please stay on topic and move all "GF Vs GWF" arguments to a different thread. We are looking forward to more updates from Devs as well as actual testing reports and constructive feedback on the newly implemented changes to GWF here. Thanks.
Conqueror/protector/tactician? Doesn't really matter though, because the setup you just mentioned is terrible for PvP. A GF needs > shield talent + a set with a + guard meter bonus, at least 5k power, 30% deflect 10% lifesteal, ~3500 defense and 22-25% critical rate in order to be tanky as a burst/dps focused build. HP isn't really needed on a GF, as i mentioned before and should be the lowest of all stats (CON).
---
Peace.
you dont even know half of the items i said they exist.
so what i said it's terrible for PVP, no ? Lifesteal for PVP no ? can someone please hit this guy with a shovel ?
germmaniac :
i've didn't started a thing about GF vs GWF , but people who whine on their classes come here and say : NERF THAT , nerf that, it's good that nerf, sounds great, but they didn't even played the GWF , so why should i suffer and other top players for their fake feedback ?
0
brynicstormbornMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 41
Ah, I see, they made a Tank which was able to withstand virtually all incoming attacks, well, and now it seems, instead of fine-tuning they have chosen a fix which is equal to the fix for the door in Cloak Tower: delete it. (In our case: delete any serious tanking abilities.)
Feedback: Damage/Thread Generation
Correct me at any time if I'm wrong but the threat generation/damage balancing seems really off to me.
Currently we have 100% increased thread generation from Mark(taking the threat to 2 x Damage) and additional 100% thread generation from Enhanced Mark(3 x Damage). That means that the damage focused tank is supposed to do just a little bit more than half the damage of any DPS class to keep the combat advantage and the more defensive tank is supposed to do about 1/3 of the damage of the DPS class.
Some people are struggling with that amount of damage so the answer was to increase the thread generation. The preview shard thread generation is about 3 x Damage with normal mark and 5.25 x Damage with Enhanced Mark. So now to hold the agro a high DPS tank is supposed to do just above 1/3 of the damage a DPS character does and a low DPS is supposed to do just about 1/5 of the damage of a DPS character.
Of course there are different ways to increase/decrease threat by the tanks/dps and the mark cannot be active all the time but I really think this is the baseline for bosses and small groups of enemies.
Still, doesn't that sound kind of wrong? The DPS classes certainly do not have 3 or 5 times less health and overall defence than GFs so why would GF's damage be so low?
My suggestion - roll back the thread generation from mark and increase the damage of GFs by about 25%. It should be sufficient to keep tanking GFs on the agro and will give the offensive GFs much needed increase in damage to compete with the other classes in DPS if they choose to forgo their defence in favor of offensive stats.
They could have changed the heroic feat Potent Challenge besides the current changes to ensure better Threat generation. The Enhanced Mark passive is supposed to play a role in tanking. The other damaging classes got nerfed so the damage level is now more equal than before.
But overall, the changes are surely not fully matured enough; they should have reworked many feats of the Guardian Fighter as todesfaelle already mentioned.
It does it like it did on live shard and that is the reason why Oppressor Control Wizards are so efficient against Guardian Fighters (and Devoted Clerics) because they can freeze it almost permanently.
nope i was able to bull charge another gf while he was blocking and knocked him down it lets anything through at a 20% rate including freezing 100% of the time still.
nope i was able to bull charge another gf while he was blocking and knocked him down it lets anything through at a 20% rate including freezing 100% of the time still.
I liked alot of the stuff you suggested, to do ALL of that would of course make us pretty fricken OP IMO but there are a lot of really good ideas in there for the Devs to work with.
I just want to comment on the suggestion I quoted above:
I really enjoy the Knockback on Bull Charge, it provides so much utility in PvP, you can do so many things with it strategy wise, from moving an enemy into a teammates attack, protecting teammates, bleeding on a node, putting them in corners or separating them from the crowd to make it easier to focus them. Stuff like that.
I would be FINE if they took the range away (its cool but I really don't need it) and left the prone/knockback. Damage buff I have no opinion on either way. I'm of course fine withe a DPS increase but it probably will not be necessary if our stat allocations get tweaked.
I don't know how any of this effects PvE so if what I'm supporting, or if what I'm ok with losing effects PvE terribly please let us know, I'm sure something can be found that works best for both PvE and PvP.
Yeah im not sure about it being OP or not. I think GFs would be VERY tanky then, I think the GF SHOULD be the tankiest class IMO, and Sentinels should be right behind them.
I too enjoy the knockback on Bull charge because of the utility, but I also think that not only does it hurt the class in the long run, its also a little unrealistic and if we are asking to play more of a tank/striker I think to balance that, losing some form of CC is only fair. Also, with bull rush in its current state it makes it a "must have" ability for any build. I think dropping the knock back makes it so some of the other skills look appealing as well.
It would still maintain a prone, which is the most important part IMO, which would allow you to at will attack afterwards or chain other abilities since you would be ontop of them.
Id like to see more build emerge though and hopefully with some buffs to things like Knee Breaker, or anvil of doom, it would open the doors to more variation rather than every GF running the same encounters.
Look I know its a beloved skill, trust me, I love it too, it STILL allows the GF to "save" teammates by knocking down a target, but the ping pong effect is a little ridiculous and when you look at the actual "CC time" or the amount of time the knock back adds to the CC its about double the duration.
As to the OPness of all the changes, honestly id rather have them do 100% of what I posted and have to tone back damage or tankiness a tad, rather than throw a VASTLY underpowered GF out and have GFs quit their class or get even more frustrated.
I mean look at how they push out HR, or GWF in mod 3 without really much testing. Id rather have GF get some love and be OP for a week or two THEN toned back where needed than pushed out in its current state. There are not many GFs left so honestly the total impact on the game would be nothing...
An my only hesitation to putting the current LIVE block back but buffing it up is that it doesnt really fix the issue IMO of fast little hits depleting the block faster, where as slow strong hits do almost nothing.
If they are to keep the current block meter in function, I think it still needs to just be redone... Currently there is a damage cap as to how much block can be eaten by any attack, so for instance a 2,500 hit takes away the same as a 25,000 hit... Id honestly like to see this changed IF they are to keep the live version.
small little hits should deal almost nothing, where as bigger hits like 25k should probably take out half the guard/block meter or even more!
So maybe if the guard meter was TRIPLED, however the amount of guard that can be eaten on each hit it also tripled... I dont know where the cap is anymore I think it used to be around 1500? So maybe bump it to 5,000. This way little hits for 1500 would only take a small amount of block away, where as a big hit for 10k would suck away like 1/3rd of the meter.
I think thats the only way it could work, otherwise it makes guard too strong against certain classes and the only ones that stand a chance again would be TRs spamming flurry to drop shield.
Also, BTW DEVs. Block/Guard NEEDS to be back to 100% because right now it lets all CC through, so basically block is completely useless... block should be a way to escape/hide/counter CC abilities, not just a way to mitigate damage.
nope i was able to bull charge another gf while he was blocking and knocked him down it lets anything through at a 20% rate including freezing 100% of the time still.
That means that GF will be the only class without any form of CC-immunity (like a dodge or abilities).
Hey guys, I got the OK from Ambisinisterr to share these:
First one is a quick 1v1 Vs. Xenovia (GWF) right after test went live. No companions were used.
The GF is speced traditional conq, with defense stats stacked to a reasonable amount.
The point of the video is not how easily the GF dies, but rather to show that his lack of DPS cripples him. Also it shows the new block mechanic in action.
The second video is of the same GF 1v1ing an HR whom he out gears considerable. You can see that there is no way the GF would ever be able to kill the HR, even if the HR was not trying to kill the GF there would be no hope.
Please keep "skill" arguments out of this. The GF is built for DPS, and has pretty good gear, the point of these videos is not to show how many times he misses an encounter, or that he is using the wrong encounters, or that he should have blocked here or there. Its to show that the Damage output of the GF is so low that even when speced DPS, they do not have much of a chance of killing in PvP.
One of the problems with the new block mechanic is also demonstrated here. When the HR goes into stealth, its no mystery what is coming next, and the new block mechanic prevents the GF from holding block to discourage (or block) the incoming encounter. The HR simply has to hold off for a second until the GF either runs out of stamina, or is forced to release block to prevent its complete depletion.
Thanks again to Ambisinisterr, and PLEASE lets keep it constructive.
With M4 on the horizon and DPS classes going to get stronger it is imperative that the GF have its DPS boosted either in ARP / CRIT because hitting people for 2k is not going to do anything!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
...
I mean look at how they push out HR, or GWF in mod 3 without really much testing. Id rather have GF get some love and be OP for a week or two THEN toned back where needed than pushed out in its current state. There are not many GFs left so honestly the total impact on the game would be nothing...
I got this thought also, it is just the test server and we should try out how far we can go in enhancing the tankiness of the Guardian Fighter to make it a viable tank but to keep it balanced with the other classes; that is the purpose of the test server, no? I deem the Devs too overly cautious about the Tank, they do not even try to enhance it in this respect and that is the sad point about all of this.
That is truly a form of control immunity but it has only limited use due to the short duration and the long animation, so without the Swordmaster paragon path it is a risky Daily power and hardly usable in PvP if the opponent is somewhat aware of your doing.
So the block mechanism should be for example: I get hit by 1000 damage. I have 50% DR, therefore I take 500 damage. With shield up, I take 0.2 times 500 or 100 damage. (assuming no deflect or arp - just for simplification)
Under the new system:
If 10 mobs are all attacking stimulatously and for example each hit was 1000 and all are blocked I would take 10 hits of 1000 times 0.5 times 0.2 which is 1000 total damage.
Under the old system:
If 10 mobs are all attacking stimulatously and I would block for example 5 hits before guard breaks, therefore be hit by 5 hits of 1000 times 0.5 which is 2500
So the block mechanism should be for example: I get hit by 1000 damage. I have 50% DR, therefore I take 500 damage. With shield up, I take 0.2 times 500 or 100 damage. (assuming no deflect or arp - just for simplification)
Under the new system:
If 10 mobs are all attacking stimulatously and for example each hit was 1000 and all are blocked I would take 10 hits of 1000 times 0.5 times 0.2 which is 1000 total damage.
Under the old system:
If 10 mobs are all attacking stimulatously and I would block for example 5 hits before guard breaks, therefore be hit by 5 hits of 1000 times 0.5 which is 2500
Is this correct math?
Yes this is correct. I think block is first, then DR, then dont forget tenacity!
So if someone does a 10k IBS or Ice Knife lets say - its drops by 80% first down to 2k damage, then its mitigated 50% by DR to 1k damage, then finally another 20% by tenacity for a final 800 damage.
So you took 10k down to 800 damage from blocking it. I have no problem with this, although I WOULD ask then, does deflect work WITH block in that after block applies 80% DR, you can deflect the blow?
I think in giving up that 20% DR (from 100% down to 80%) we need to be significantly compensated in block duration AND block recovery
That is truly a form of control immunity but it has only limited use due to the short duration and the long animation, so without the Swordmaster paragon path it is a risky Daily power and hardly usable in PvP if the opponent is somewhat aware of your doing.
Well, guard should grant CC immunity now once they get it setup on preview:
In the next week or two we will be increasing the block duration substantially. This will make it easier to withstand much longer assaults by large numbers of foes.
Additionally we have the following changes going in at the same time.
Guardian Fighter: Threatening Rush: Threatening Rush is now usable At Will again, without charges or a cooldown. Great Weapon Fighters still use the charge based system.
Guardian Fighter: Block will now grant CC Immunity while active.
So the block mechanism should be for example: I get hit by 1000 damage. I have 50% DR, therefore I take 500 damage. With shield up, I take 0.2 times 500 or 100 damage. (assuming no deflect or arp - just for simplification)
Under the new system:
If 10 mobs are all attacking stimulatously and for example each hit was 1000 and all are blocked I would take 10 hits of 1000 times 0.5 times 0.2 which is 1000 total damage.
Under the old system:
If 10 mobs are all attacking stimulatously and I would block for example 5 hits before guard breaks, therefore be hit by 5 hits of 1000 times 0.5 which is 2500
Is this correct math?
Not really if they are only hitting for 1k it will take a lot more hits to deplete guard on live. More like I will take the 5 hits at 1k with my shield down reduce them with mitigation and deflection regaining HP with LS and Regen (LS because I can attack the little things with my guard down) then use my shield on 5 8+k hits or CCs on live. On preview (if I am reading reports right) The same processs would end with me still taking 1.6K+ from the big hits I reserved my guard for.
Hey guys, I wanted to drop in and let you know about a change we are making and some of the rationale behind the reworked block behavior.
In the next week or two we will be increasing the block duration substantially. This will make it easier to withstand much longer assaults by large numbers of foes.
Additionally we have the following changes going in at the same time.
Guardian Fighter: Threatening Rush: Threatening Rush is now usable At Will again, without charges or a cooldown. Great Weapon Fighters still use the charge based system.
Guardian Fighter: Block will now grant CC Immunity while active.
As for the reasoning as to why we changed block the way we did I have to explain how old block worked and why it was problematic. Old block functioned as a secondary HP bar that was calculated based on your maximum HP and feats, and could not be drained more than 20% in any single hit. While this sounds good on paper in practice it actually means that when you manage to pull aggro on enough targets you end up getting the whole meter drained out rapidly (sometimes in only 5 hits depending on how strong the foes were). This then left the Guardian with no tools left in his kit. It also provided complete damage protection which meant that healers had to be ready for large spikes of incoming burst damage, and the only way to respond to that in time was to have a lot of heal over time effects rolling so that when those spikes of damage came in there were heals already coming in.
Given those problems we wanted to give the Guardian more control over his survivability as well as increase the symbiotic relationship between healers and tanks so healers can have more options added to their toolkit beyond "put down astral shield". To do this we decided that block shouldn't eat ALL incoming damage and should also get stronger as your damage resistance does. To facilitate this we have changed block to be an 80% multiplicative buff (this means that the damage you would have taken gets multiplied by .2 while block is active). This means that your armor still matters a lot, and defensive improvements always help you. It also means that healers face far less spikes of large damage and see much more consistent incoming damage on tanks, which makes it much easier to deal with changes on the battlefield, and when we get a chance to look at Clerics means we can give them more styles of healing that make sense in more situations. Given these new changes we also wanted to make taunting and mob control more potent so Guardians can better fill the role of grabbing foes and gathering them up so your allies can destroy them with impunity.
We would like to see testing performed in dungeons and in PVP matches to see how the changes have adjusted that gameplay. We are also well aware that Guardians can no longer preemptively just hold up their shield indefinitely. We want Guardians to have to choose their timing more carefully but be rewarded for doing so, and the new block system provided much more of that feeling during our internal testing.
Yes that was just a simple illustration so i could try and understand the math but under a different scenario for example pvp with high burst damage:
CW hits you for 20K ice knife. (assume you have DR 50% and 10% tenacity)
Old system: You block all damage, but prob have almost no guard meter.
New system: You block and take 20,000 times 0.2 equals 4000 then take DR/Tenacity which is 4000 times 0.4 therefore 1600 damage but you (if you timed it correct and didnt turtle for long behind shield) have 3-4 secs of block.
Hey guys, I wanted to drop in and let you know about a change we are making and some of the rationale behind the reworked block behavior.
In the next week or two we will be increasing the block duration substantially. This will make it easier to withstand much longer assaults by large numbers of foes.
Additionally we have the following changes going in at the same time.
Guardian Fighter: Threatening Rush: Threatening Rush is now usable At Will again, without charges or a cooldown. Great Weapon Fighters still use the charge based system.
Guardian Fighter: Block will now grant CC Immunity while active.
As for the reasoning as to why we changed block the way we did I have to explain how old block worked and why it was problematic. Old block functioned as a secondary HP bar that was calculated based on your maximum HP and feats, and could not be drained more than 20% in any single hit. While this sounds good on paper in practice it actually means that when you manage to pull aggro on enough targets you end up getting the whole meter drained out rapidly (sometimes in only 5 hits depending on how strong the foes were). This then left the Guardian with no tools left in his kit. It also provided complete damage protection which meant that healers had to be ready for large spikes of incoming burst damage, and the only way to respond to that in time was to have a lot of heal over time effects rolling so that when those spikes of damage came in there were heals already coming in.
Given those problems we wanted to give the Guardian more control over his survivability as well as increase the symbiotic relationship between healers and tanks so healers can have more options added to their toolkit beyond "put down astral shield". To do this we decided that block shouldn't eat ALL incoming damage and should also get stronger as your damage resistance does. To facilitate this we have changed block to be an 80% multiplicative buff (this means that the damage you would have taken gets multiplied by .2 while block is active). This means that your armor still matters a lot, and defensive improvements always help you. It also means that healers face far less spikes of large damage and see much more consistent incoming damage on tanks, which makes it much easier to deal with changes on the battlefield, and when we get a chance to look at Clerics means we can give them more styles of healing that make sense in more situations. Given these new changes we also wanted to make taunting and mob control more potent so Guardians can better fill the role of grabbing foes and gathering them up so your allies can destroy them with impunity.
We would like to see testing performed in dungeons and in PVP matches to see how the changes have adjusted that gameplay. We are also well aware that Guardians can no longer preemptively just hold up their shield indefinitely. We want Guardians to have to choose their timing more carefully but be rewarded for doing so, and the new block system provided much more of that feeling during our internal testing.
Thank you all for your continued feedback.
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
can we GWFs finally get our individual paragon path?
Comments
try this gear on the GF: 2 pieces of purified helm and bracers + 2 pieces of profound perserver armour and feet + purified black ice neck , rings of dexterous and sinister + sorcerous belt .+ exquisite pants and shirt + corrupted black ice weapons + 3 artefacts (waters , thayan book and tactician banner ) go full CON and DEX (but roll a character having alot of CON/DEX) and what you;ve got for now 3 offense slots and 6 defense slots , put radiants on defense slot and on offense Armorpen/azure , as weapon enchantment gplaguefire/pterror/pholly/pfeytouch , as armour ench pbarkshield / frostburn , on overload 800armp/crit or armp/power, depends on how you like, and the boons but them in a tankier way ... if this build can't rock on PVP and be tanky enough in PVE , then you guys dont need to come here to whine..
going sword master paragon : you use lunging strike, flourin , anvil for stuns , and as class feats steel grace steel defense, and it's a matter how you play cause you build fast ap so you have alot of ap skills ... and if you do a rotation you can 1vs1 different classes and you don't die.. that's the idea, he can't kill you ... and if that doesn't help, only devs need to put more damage in their skills and that's all ..
and GWF for PVe , you forgot that in a run he gets alot of buffs from cleric/cw and the mobs are debuffed from cws ... so yeah it does alot of damage because of that, dont you think so ?
GWF won't hit the same damage in PVP as they do in PVP , they max crit 20k crit on weaker players who don't have defense/tenacity on them, but on pvp tr/hr/cw they hit max 5k-10k
so then again, why do they need to nerf alot from gwf side, when the only problem everyone complains is roar? and why does they need to change TAkedown from prone to stun , isn't Takedown means to take someone down? geezas... and if you changed roar who coulde've stun people , how can i catch players who dodgie alot tr/hr/ dc/cw ? geez ...
General
Determination gain will no longer be subject to variance. This will make Determination gain more normalized.
DEFINE NORMALIZED?
Powers
Mark: Mark will now taunt foes briefly as well as place the player at the top of the threat list.
Roar: This power has been fixed to no longer silence opponents for 2 seconds. Instead it correctly interrupts power usage. If a power is successfully interrupted, that power will be locked out for 2 seconds. This effect will no longer pierce CC immunity. Roar will no longer Root players for 2 seconds.
this is OKai.
Unstoppable: Unstoppable now grants 5~10% damage resist when activated (down from 25~50%)
i wonder why now? and who did think they change this?
Takedown: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
this should be prone, you did change the roar, that was the problem, or change the name of the skill TAKE STUN!!
Takedown: This power now deals ~30% less damage.
this is useless too .. rarerly people hitted 8k with takedown, RARERLY
Iron Vanguard: Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
this doesn't make sense, here again...
Iron Vanguard: Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which refresh every 9 seconds.
FIX THE ANIMATION ... refresh at 9 sec? this depends on REcovery too ?
Feats
Sentinel's Aegis: This feat now causes Unstoppable to grant 5 times more damage resistance in addition to its other effects.
this is good , but fix the Restoring Strike so that people can hit 8-9k in pvp, cause it's a broken skill in pvp ... so it's simple imo make Sentinel Aegis more Attractive to GWF PVP players so you would have 2 different gwf Destroyer for PVE and Sentinel for PVP
Conqueror/protector/tactician? Doesn't really matter though, because the setup you just mentioned is terrible for PvP. A GF needs > shield talent + a set with a + guard meter bonus, at least 5k power, 30% deflect 10% lifesteal, ~3500 defense and 22-25% critical rate in order to be tanky as a burst/dps focused build. HP isn't really needed on a GF, as i mentioned before and should be the lowest of all stats (CON).
---
Peace.
so what i said it's terrible for PVP, no ? Lifesteal for PVP no ? can someone please hit this guy with a shovel ?
germmaniac :
i've didn't started a thing about GF vs GWF , but people who whine on their classes come here and say : NERF THAT , nerf that, it's good that nerf, sounds great, but they didn't even played the GWF , so why should i suffer and other top players for their fake feedback ?
This might have something to do with that: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qpq_FmAt_VU
- B
Ah, I see, they made a Tank which was able to withstand virtually all incoming attacks, well, and now it seems, instead of fine-tuning they have chosen a fix which is equal to the fix for the door in Cloak Tower: delete it. (In our case: delete any serious tanking abilities.)
They could have changed the heroic feat Potent Challenge besides the current changes to ensure better Threat generation. The Enhanced Mark passive is supposed to play a role in tanking. The other damaging classes got nerfed so the damage level is now more equal than before.
But overall, the changes are surely not fully matured enough; they should have reworked many feats of the Guardian Fighter as todesfaelle already mentioned.
It does it like it did on live shard and that is the reason why Oppressor Control Wizards are so efficient against Guardian Fighters (and Devoted Clerics) because they can freeze it almost permanently.
That is really bad.
Yeah im not sure about it being OP or not. I think GFs would be VERY tanky then, I think the GF SHOULD be the tankiest class IMO, and Sentinels should be right behind them.
I too enjoy the knockback on Bull charge because of the utility, but I also think that not only does it hurt the class in the long run, its also a little unrealistic and if we are asking to play more of a tank/striker I think to balance that, losing some form of CC is only fair. Also, with bull rush in its current state it makes it a "must have" ability for any build. I think dropping the knock back makes it so some of the other skills look appealing as well.
It would still maintain a prone, which is the most important part IMO, which would allow you to at will attack afterwards or chain other abilities since you would be ontop of them.
Id like to see more build emerge though and hopefully with some buffs to things like Knee Breaker, or anvil of doom, it would open the doors to more variation rather than every GF running the same encounters.
Look I know its a beloved skill, trust me, I love it too, it STILL allows the GF to "save" teammates by knocking down a target, but the ping pong effect is a little ridiculous and when you look at the actual "CC time" or the amount of time the knock back adds to the CC its about double the duration.
As to the OPness of all the changes, honestly id rather have them do 100% of what I posted and have to tone back damage or tankiness a tad, rather than throw a VASTLY underpowered GF out and have GFs quit their class or get even more frustrated.
I mean look at how they push out HR, or GWF in mod 3 without really much testing. Id rather have GF get some love and be OP for a week or two THEN toned back where needed than pushed out in its current state. There are not many GFs left so honestly the total impact on the game would be nothing...
If they are to keep the current block meter in function, I think it still needs to just be redone... Currently there is a damage cap as to how much block can be eaten by any attack, so for instance a 2,500 hit takes away the same as a 25,000 hit... Id honestly like to see this changed IF they are to keep the live version.
small little hits should deal almost nothing, where as bigger hits like 25k should probably take out half the guard/block meter or even more!
So maybe if the guard meter was TRIPLED, however the amount of guard that can be eaten on each hit it also tripled... I dont know where the cap is anymore I think it used to be around 1500? So maybe bump it to 5,000. This way little hits for 1500 would only take a small amount of block away, where as a big hit for 10k would suck away like 1/3rd of the meter.
I think thats the only way it could work, otherwise it makes guard too strong against certain classes and the only ones that stand a chance again would be TRs spamming flurry to drop shield.
Also, BTW DEVs. Block/Guard NEEDS to be back to 100% because right now it lets all CC through, so basically block is completely useless... block should be a way to escape/hide/counter CC abilities, not just a way to mitigate damage.
That means that GF will be the only class without any form of CC-immunity (like a dodge or abilities).
With M4 on the horizon and DPS classes going to get stronger it is imperative that the GF have its DPS boosted either in ARP / CRIT because hitting people for 2k is not going to do anything!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Villians Menace.
I got this thought also, it is just the test server and we should try out how far we can go in enhancing the tankiness of the Guardian Fighter to make it a viable tank but to keep it balanced with the other classes; that is the purpose of the test server, no? I deem the Devs too overly cautious about the Tank, they do not even try to enhance it in this respect and that is the sad point about all of this.
That is truly a form of control immunity but it has only limited use due to the short duration and the long animation, so without the Swordmaster paragon path it is a risky Daily power and hardly usable in PvP if the opponent is somewhat aware of your doing.
Under the new system:
If 10 mobs are all attacking stimulatously and for example each hit was 1000 and all are blocked I would take 10 hits of 1000 times 0.5 times 0.2 which is 1000 total damage.
Under the old system:
If 10 mobs are all attacking stimulatously and I would block for example 5 hits before guard breaks, therefore be hit by 5 hits of 1000 times 0.5 which is 2500
Is this correct math?
Yes this is correct. I think block is first, then DR, then dont forget tenacity!
So if someone does a 10k IBS or Ice Knife lets say - its drops by 80% first down to 2k damage, then its mitigated 50% by DR to 1k damage, then finally another 20% by tenacity for a final 800 damage.
So you took 10k down to 800 damage from blocking it. I have no problem with this, although I WOULD ask then, does deflect work WITH block in that after block applies 80% DR, you can deflect the blow?
I think in giving up that 20% DR (from 100% down to 80%) we need to be significantly compensated in block duration AND block recovery
Well, guard should grant CC immunity now once they get it setup on preview:
From: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?692701-Official-Feedback-Thread-Guardian-Fighter-Changes&p=8241371&viewfull=1#post8241371
Not really if they are only hitting for 1k it will take a lot more hits to deplete guard on live. More like I will take the 5 hits at 1k with my shield down reduce them with mitigation and deflection regaining HP with LS and Regen (LS because I can attack the little things with my guard down) then use my shield on 5 8+k hits or CCs on live. On preview (if I am reading reports right) The same processs would end with me still taking 1.6K+ from the big hits I reserved my guard for.
Great Weapon Fighters still use the charge based system. ~AWESOME!
Guardian Fighter: Block will now grant CC Immunity while active. ~AWESOME!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Good to hear! I missed it.
A bit off topic, but anyone want to make a bet ian will make a fuss over this?
CW hits you for 20K ice knife. (assume you have DR 50% and 10% tenacity)
Old system: You block all damage, but prob have almost no guard meter.
New system: You block and take 20,000 times 0.2 equals 4000 then take DR/Tenacity which is 4000 times 0.4 therefore 1600 damage but you (if you timed it correct and didnt turtle for long behind shield) have 3-4 secs of block.
can we GWFs finally get our individual paragon path?
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
ianthewizard, that guy.