Yes, that's the part that "sounds" nice; but it makes no sense for Constitution to add to Reflex saving throws.
Second issue with that: you got a full plate armor and a shield and a sword - you ain't gonna deflect anything.
Sure, it sounds nice, but it just doesn't make sense.
Actually I wouldnt say CON should have deflect, as you said it doesnt make much sense, but maybe Intel or wis. As deflecting in armor does take some skill to learn how to do. But its very likely to be done, just more difficult to do than lighter classes. As a fighter, a guardian one at that one, learning how to deflect an attack with a shield instead of blocking or using a pauldron on your shoulder to to deflect a blow that was aimed for a more vital area take something of an advanced nature to learn how to do given its more difficult. So it would make more sense for one to specifically study and acquire through wisdom or intellect to deflect attacks in such a manner.
it being in Con. It would be nice but that would just make every GF just simply ridiculous to kill with the already boosted HP they have, and the ability to mostly mitigate damage (instead of ALL like they currently do, though I still feel the current block is better, just needs more of it). And get more of it, instead of .5% every point like the other lighter classes do.
Yes, that's the part that "sounds" nice; but it makes no sense for Constitution to add to Reflex saving throws.
Second issue with that: you got a full plate armor and a shield and a sword - you ain't gonna deflect anything.
Sure, it sounds nice, but it just doesn't make sense.
I think you have mistaken "deflection" (an object gets deflected by either colliding with another object, such as > an armor/shield or a magical spell.) for "dodging" and dodging does not really exist in this game as a passive stat. In other words, you are entirely wrong. The protector has a tier 1 feat which adds deflection, every single GF item adds deflection. Shields aswell as armors were/are designed with the one and ONLY purpose of deflecting incoming attacks. This is why armors tend to have triangular shaped aspects such as the front of the harness, the helmet and yes, even shields were not flat because a flat shield can only defend against so many hits before it gets destroyed. If there were no "deflection" points on shields, the one blocking an incoming attack would break their arm and get killed. Deflection has also, nothing to do with having enough dexterity (obviously).
Let me take it a step further. Modern wartanks, use the same method (triangular shaped plates) in order to deflect incoming projectiles.
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However, IF you insist on telling these crazy made up stories, at least back them up with logical facts, otherwise it makes you look really silly because what you are claiming is basically not the reality and all that you are accomplishing is spreading misinformation. Stop it.
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If anything, trickster rogues should not be able to deflect that often, they have nothing to deflect attacks with. (Pyjamas are not bullet proof).
The situation is dramatic.basically GFs are now on preview with out block.Stamina based block was is and willl be a terrible idea.5 -6 GFs said that immediatelly after Ayroux brought up this terrible idea 3 months ago.Combine this with a 80% only damage stop,the FS and the TR "balances" and we are in a really epic trolly (sic) situation:
After dozens of threads of desperate GFs that were asking for more deflect and dps the devs gave neither and in addition nerfed block,FS and TR.
If i did not know the NW reality i would said with 99% confidence that are just trolling us.
This happens when instead of listening to dozens of experienced GFs like Colonel,Skalt,Rip,Staggy,lv99, etc the devs listened to a GWF and 2 CWs.Great.Which GWF and CWs proposed "stamina" based block,and the damage to pass thorugh shield.
Cause most of the other classes are completely clueless as concerning GF reality they think when GF does not tank and run for his life/disengage that...."omg he lost aggro!!"
From there came the absurd ridicoulous silly idiotic terrible stupid tragic comments and proposals GF to gain more aggro.
From CWs that though that when a GF does not block is not cause his block is gone and his life is at stake with 15% health......but because he lost threat and aggro.
I am eye witness to situations in PK last boss when i was still 10k gs and running to stay alive,that cws were chatting me "why you lost your aggro"? "block **** it!!press shift!!" "useless tank just block!!"
And sadly Devs listened to cws and the sworn enemies and direct competitors of GFs,the manga-hentai FFXIV class the GWFs.
I am 100% sure that after a mod will see this post he will delete it.NVm.Who ever reads it is good.I know tha most real Gfs and not GWF alt owning GFs,are really really sad
I lost all my hopes.All.There is no hope.None.I am at 340 fame in IWD and for three days i do not have the courage to finish the campaign to get my armor.If the proposed changes pass this willl be the final death of a NW class the GF.
I joined the forums on january but i had 1 lv60 Gf and a lv 39 GF since beta utill i lost access to my hotmail account.So i started a new.
I am Head Hunter,Blood thirsty ,Dungeon master i have all the titles in NW .(except the last pvp cause i cannot triple kill)I earned all of them by just pugging 99,9% of the time.All the guilds i was were tiny.I have 3 fully equipped sets with soulforge ,rank7/8s.Valiant,KC,profound tactician.I have greater plaguefire and greater bronzewood profound cong pvp equipped swords.I am capped for ages at 50k glory.i have Stone 3-4 blue and 8-9 green companions,epic horse.
^^^
So?who cares might all say?Who GaF about your gear?The point is still after all this time in this game i am getting owned by GWFs and HRs/TRs who just button mash.
In pve i wear KC ,rank8s and use enforced threat ,Into the fray and artifact vanguard's banner.**** it i cannot even enter a T1 dung even in legit channel.
A CW made a thread one month ago who suggested to reduce the block stopping all damage and not to have infinite block.Bamm!!!On preview it happened.
GWFs exploit and troll whole teams by using roar in succesion.No prob let them have it for 4 months.
Gfs beg for buffs for 6-7 months.O well.just ignore them and to teach them a lesson give them a good nerf.
I liked so much this game.i liked the art the style the community.The graphics the superb animations.i liked how a small company like cryptic made a marvel of a game.
But somehow this game is not for GFs.For reasons unknown to anyone.All can crit and dps.All except "tanks".Which Gfs are not according tto the game ;they are leaders -controllers-defenders.hence the three branches.What to say?
Nothing.GFs was dying ,is dying and when the changes will go on live it will just die for good.
Amen GWFs .The field is now yours you are the only fighter class left in this game
This is your game "NeverWinter ,Dungeons GWfs and dragons".Enjoy it
There have been alot of different ideas and suggestions but at least all of us who have a GF agreed on one thing - the meter depletes too fast and Guard breaks in no time with 4-5 critters beating on it.
So we ask for a more reliable guard and what do you do ? You give is a guard that breaks even faster! Who's bright idea was it to make it drop so fast ? I just tried a Totam in the Pass on Preview. First as a Protector then as a Conq. Failed both times as with your "fix" I lose guard faster vs 4-6 mobs then I lose it on live. If I fight one strong critter i can dance around it and block strategically - cool, and what about 6 strong critters with aoe cc who you have to block or you're chain controlled and probably killed ? Shall I dance around them too with this new increased movement speed while blocking ? Did I roll a Guardian Fighter at character creation or a Ballerina ?
So, great job on givin' me 5K more HP which is pretty much the only postive so far. You got time tho so fix the rest too.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
One thing is guaranteed from my side. I will fight for my class and i won't let other (newer/clueless) GF - players ruin it just because they are not that good at playing said class. What needs to be done has been mentioned a hundred times by now. No timers, no stamina, no fancy new 80% dmg, none of this. We need the current block improved, not altered/revamped/destroyed.
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So please, if one isn't able to grasp/comprehend the easiest things/mechanics of the GF class, do not post/agree with useless or unneeded suggestions. Mmo's especially Neverwinter have taught me one thing, 1 player out of 500 players is actually good, the other 499 aren't and taking advice of said people is not the wisest decision to make.
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I try to fomulate this as calm and gentleman like as possible, BUT my patience is not infinite and the ignorance and idiocricy of certain posters is just too much for my taste.
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Again to clarify, i am not targetting somebody in particular, just stating some important facts.
I am tired too, so please try not to defame others personally just because they have a different opinion, and it is by far no valid argument to post repeatedly stuff close to: you have no clue what you are saying, because that is simply a personal attack and I am tired of scrolling through all this personal bashing with a lack of insightful arguments (I do not mean you exclusively).
If ever I read some real statement here then it is this: I want more damage and I want to parade with my shield all day long in front of me.
I tested the new system and it is doable with this new system like with the old, just the duration is much too short; I by myself was never for a Stamina-based Block but it is another approach and I hope too, they rethink many things they have changed as of this patch release.
There have been alot of different ideas and suggestions but at least all of us who have a GF agreed on one thing - the meter depletes too fast and Guard breaks in no time with 4-5 critters beating on it.
So we ask for a more reliable guard and what do you do ? You give is a guard that breaks even faster! Who's bright idea was it to make it drop so fast ? I just tried a Totam in the Pass on Preview. First as a Protector then as a Conq. Failed both times as with your "fix" I lose guard faster vs 4-6 mobs then I lose it on live. If I fight one strong critter i can dance around it and block strategically - cool, and what about 6 strong critters with aoe cc who you have to block or you're chain controlled and probably killed ? Shall I dance around them too with this new increased movement speed while blocking ? Did I rall a Guardian Fighter at character creation or a Ballerina ?
So, great job on givin' me 5K more HP which is pretty much the only postive so far. You got time tho so fix the rest too.
Yeah, it is nice to see that Block is not diminished by damage but this? This is as bad as the old Block responded to strong hits: it is down in seconds. But the irony is that all Guardians have now a reliable Block, one which breaks in seconds -- promised.
I think you have mistaken "deflection" (an object gets deflected by either colliding with another object, such as > an armor/shield or a magical spell.) for "dodging" and dodging does not really exist in this game as a passive stat. In other words, you are entirely wrong. The protector has a tier 1 feat which adds deflection, every single GF item adds deflection. Shields aswell as armors were/are designed with the one and ONLY purpose of deflecting incoming attacks. This is why armors tend to have triangular shaped aspects such as the front of the harness, the helmet and yes, even shields were not flat because a flat shield can only defend against so many hits before it gets destroyed. If there were no "deflection" points on shields, the one blocking an incoming attack would break their arm and get killed. Deflection has also, nothing to do with having enough dexterity (obviously)...
Sounds right, although the logic of the real world do not need to have an impact on a game, all the more in a fantasy setting. But even in original D&D plate armours make toons harder to hit, so to speak, they enhance "Deflection" and not a Damage Resistance.
Apart from that, how consistent is that a Great Weapon Fighter ignores Damage Resistance via Constitution? As that is the stat for them to supplement Armour Penetration.
This is all really cute and stuff but as i mentioned before, i won't let newbies ruin my class. And if they start suggesting idiotic things i am sure as hell going to proove them wrong and show them how it's done RIGHT. Live with it or just stop reading my posts.
I never claimed this either way. The fact is though, that i and the other "seasoned" GF's will continue to question certain types of approaches regarding the matter. It is up to the newcomers to either learn a thing or two, or stay narrow minded and continue living in their pink bubble of delusion.
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In other words: Quality should matter more than, quantity.
... i won't let newbies ruin my class. And if they start suggesting idiotic things i am sure as hell going to proove them wrong and show them how it's done RIGHT. Live with it or just stop reading my posts.
...
If you think plate should not have a higher deflection rate than leather please leave the room thank you.
^ this right here.
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zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
edited June 2014
i really do think a plate should have a higher deflection rate since that is a freaking plate armor you are covered vs a leather armor, you don't soak damage using a leather you dodge around using those since you are unencumbered
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
deflection isnt actually soaking damage. Deflecting is taking a hit in a way to change the momentum of what struck you to cause most of the force/impact to be guided away from you. Think of parry, where parry is an actual method of deflecting.
Its harder to do with armor simply because its heavier and bulkier in that manner without particular skill, but much more reliable to do once pulled off.
Thats why TR's have higher deflect severity. Because they are lighter so they can deflect most of the attack with thier dexterity (actual dexterity not the stat)
Where heavy armored people have higher deflecting chances with a lower deflect severity, because all the armor provides many opportunities to deflect, in addition to holding a shield. This is why I say wisdom or Intel stats should have deflect chance increase at full 1% per point. Because it takes training and wisdom in the art of combat to effectively pull off deflecting in such conditions. Otherwise one would waste more energy trying to deflect when it would be better to soak damage in the armor without the proper knowledge in how to do so.
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zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
deflection isnt actually soaking damage. Deflecting is taking a hit in a way to change the momentum of what struck you to cause most of the force/impact to be guided away from you. Think of parry, where parry is an actual method of deflecting.
Its harder to do with armor simply because its heavier and bulkier in that manner without particular skill, but much more reliable to do once pulled off.
Thats why TR's have higher deflect severity. Because they are lighter so they can deflect most of the attack with thier dexterity (actual dexterity not the stat)
Where heavy armored people have higher deflecting chances with a lower deflect severity, because all the armor provides many opportunities to deflect, in addition to holding a shield. This is why I say wisdom or Intel stats should have deflect chance increase at full 1% per point. Because it takes training and wisdom in the art of combat to effectively pull off deflecting in such conditions. Otherwise one would waste more energy trying to deflect when it would be better to soak damage in the armor without the proper knowledge in how to do so.
Then by this analogy, it should prove that a person wearing a shield can deflect better and more frequently than a leather person fighting with 2 daggers.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
The same reason for the armor is for the shield. The shield is too heavy to be able to reliably without specifically knowing how to deflect with a shield. Its the same context. Deflecting with the shield is much different than blocking the attack. The shield wouldnt take most of the impact, but deflects it away, that is a parry, which you can do with a weapon, but the weight makes it difficult for just anyone to do.
Its the same as trying to parry a punch with weighted wrist wraps on to put it into contextual perspective.
Where two daggers allow for more nimbleness deflecting majority of the damage they would have tooken otherwise. With the shield you'd be deflecting the attack, but the shield itself would still take some of the impact damage, because the weight and bulk itself cannot deflect majority of the impact but only part of it. Its not agile enough. To deflect you have to anticipate the attack and have enough room to work with. Its much harder to do that in bulky armor and a large shield without not knowing what to look for and how to postition yourself in the right moments for specific incoming attacks. Much more contextual than simply blocking it.
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xjosh19Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 23Arc User
edited June 2014
And why that sudden suggestion to REWORK Reckless Attacker?
I see this Deflection discussion is leading to nowhere as most of the people here have no experience with armour nor dodging and still try to argue like experts. Now we try to introduce more elaborated aspects of a combat system closer to the original Dungeons and Dragons; sorry guys, instead of saying: you need high Intellect and Wisdom to be able to deflect (which is even in DnD nonsense), you would have to introduce armour and weapon proficiency one has to learn, because just being intelligent or wise does not help in deflecting an attack.
Case closed it seems.
Feedback: Enforced Threat.
- This is the utmost best PVE buff the GFs received in the LONGEST, LONGEST time, devs. Thank you very much once more. So I've done a bit more testing with it in solo and group instances in Preview, and I must say that I absolutely how Enforced Threat is now a Power that requires careful thought before using. Because as some people have already mentioned, this is a hard taunt to 20 enemies. It can spell death to the unprepared or bring about certain victory to those who plan how they are to use it. But one of its most striking features is its capability to turn the tide of an encounter. The GWFs have been brutally disfigured with the recent change to Unstoppable, taking part of their survival capabilities with them, and the CWs have had significant decreases to their main PVE skills' DPS and can no longer dish out the damage they used to make, with Arcane Singularity taking a huge hit in its target cap.
A GF that is able to use Enforced Threat well will be a valuable asset to any party, as they can become mob magnets so the GWFs and CWs can burn them down while they are perma-CC-ed to death. The good part about Enforced Threat is that it's an encounter that requires no AP to cast unlike Arcane Singluarity, meaning the CWs can just concentrate on firing their zero target cap dailies such as Oppressive Force. And the mobs will still remain bunched up to the GF, provided they overcome one of the newest and biggest challenges in using this revamped encounter; survival.
Enforced Threat is a high risk, high reward power. If a player is not built to handle the blows that come with using Enforced Threat, he will surely die. But if he is built to take blows for his party, Enforced Threat is the number one must-slot in PVE scenarios where it is a must to control the masses of adds lest they kill the squishies first.
Overall, this rework is a 10/10 for me, an avid player of the GF as a tank. We've been needing a tanking skill like this in the longest time.
Feedback: Please rework the feat trees, specially the Protector Tree.
- Some of us see GFs as a class that should be able to dish out immense burst damage, some of us see the GF as a class that was made to tank. And some just prefer to use their GFs as a party buffer. I think these three roles are an awful lot like the current paragon feat trees we have, Conqueror being the DPS Tree, Protector being the tank tree, and Tactician as the party-buffer. However, the feats inside the tree in all honesty were poorly thought out with the exception of the Conqueror Tree that does what it was supposed to do which is to deal massive DPS. Tactician has a lot of room for improvement, but Protector on the other hand doesn't feel like it actually contributes anything to the act of protecting. Please make this tree synergistic with the act of tanking, aggro management, surviving, and blocking. Basically just tanking overall. And Tactician seems to be the perfect tree for players who want their GF to act as a utility knife that has all sorts of buffs for their party so they can hit harder, or take more hits in the process.
Most GF players will have different opinions as to how the GF should be played, which is all the more reason to separate the roles we have in mind for GFs into those 3 separate trees. There's no reason to constrain a class's overall purpose into just one when we can have 3 feat trees that can house a varying amount of roles, similar to how the reworked HR feat tree is right now.
Do you think that is ok? They give the option to other classes to play a damaging role and give them the tools needed; but for the Guardian Fighter, they give the option to play a tanking role but not the tools needed? That is: you are able to grab the Aggro but have a hard time to withstand the imminent onslaught? To me it sounds not well thought out.
The Devs seem too reluctant to create a class which has the tools to withstand incoming damage quite well for whatever reason, a Guardian Fighter had always to absolve a gauntlet running in dungeons and would die on the slightest mistakes which made it at all times an unreliable tank.
On the preview, a Conquerer GF with 9k Power is able to reach a damage level of a directly copied Thaumaturge Control Wizard, but the other way around, a Guardian Fighter who tries to hold Aggro as good as it can will have a hard time handling this new Enforced Threat, and I fear the Devs are willing to reduce the target cap of Enforced Threat rather than to enhance the defensive capabilities of the Guardian Fighter.
And why that sudden suggestion to REWORK Reckless Attacker?
Its pretty pathetic in terms of actual +damage % compared to other damage trees. Plus with the guard meter in such a pitiful place on LIVE (and the PTR) it will need significant changes and I honestly think it would be much better for the class to have this + damage feat assigned to another value rather than guard meter - leave guard for survival.
Its only an idea. When I played my GF, I often found the capstone tree really lacked luster due to the fact that even with a Conq GF you cant help but block otherwise you die, the concept really only worked ok in PVE when you had support to keep you alive. In PVP block drops so fast its pathetic and even a GF in powerstack gear the damage bonus was about 12-13% (more for a PVE GF).
I think a change like this still accomplishes a similar goal of being a "reckless attacker" Heck I would even give the feat a stronger + damage % or maybe make the full damage buff kick in at 50% HP so its basically a 1% damage bonus for every 2% of your HP missing up to 25%.
Especially with Guard being changes to a stamina function, I think it will penalize GF too much since you wont even have to take a hit to lose guard - thus lose power - thus lose damage...
if you go the conq spec and you are dying in pve you are lacking lifesteal that is all.
With Villians menace and endless consumption with around 10% LS you can go back to full hp off 7 to 8 mobs since you get bonus healing from having more power, it works even with broken guard.
if you go the conq spec and you are dying in pve you are lacking lifesteal that is all.
With Villians menace and endless consumption with around 10% LS you can go back to full hp off 7 to 8 mobs since you get bonus healing from having more power, it works even with broken guard.
been doing that since i first got my 5th boon in dread. Then after the winter fest took a break and came back a few weeks before mod 3. Which led to me using madness and gpf while seeing how i would fare with more power and regen which doesn't imho. Currently changing my artifacts to have more lifesteal, power and hp while maintaining around 1000 regen at the expense of deflect.
But I am not the one who has been preaching this ideology since time immemorial.
...and I fear the Devs are willing to reduce the target cap of Enforced Threat rather than to enhance the defensive capabilities of the Guardian Fighter.
I sure hope not. This is the sort of Enforced Threat that we've been needing since beta. Hopefully they would much rather rework the Paragon Feat Trees to support us being able to handle the onslaught, than go the easy way out. Right now, Enforced Threat feels so fun. It presents so many possibilities for tanking.
They reworked the CW and HR trees significantly, I'm not sure what's stopping them from reworking the GF trees. We've been needing such reworks for a long time now. For now, however, I'm just hoping we can finally play GFs with roles as diverse as the other classes.
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epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
So nerfing our block will get us into more dungions? deffs not.... if people need both a dc and a tank they would take 4 dps and the DC... Currently tanks dont need healers in the group.
We just need to keep the block the way it is just allow it to take a few more hits before breaking....
Did anyone check how the new block fares vs. CC? I bet there will be bugs if they let damage go through shield block... (i.e. they recently fixed the soul reaper boss power, did this update break it again? )
I sure hope not. This is the sort of Enforced Threat that we've been needing since beta. Hopefully they would much rather rework the Paragon Feat Trees to support us being able to handle the onslaught, than go the easy way out. Right now, Enforced Threat feels so fun. It presents so many possibilities for tanking.
They reworked the CW and HR trees significantly, I'm not sure what's stopping them from reworking the GF trees. We've been needing such reworks for a long time now. For now, however, I'm just hoping we can finally play GFs with roles as diverse as the other classes.
The changes on the Control Wizard are noticeable in a dungeon; I ran Castle Never (was a copied Thaumaturge) and the damage was on par with a 9k power Conquerer Guardian Fighter, the control powers were still useful, Icy Terrain and Steal Time were ready quite often, and Arcane Singularity was much weaker in controlling big groups of enemies, so an actual Tank was really useful. The downside of these changes was that although we had two Tanks, it seemed needed as one died at some point -- but we had no Devoted Cleric, so it was maybe just the missing Healer.
All in all, a Control Wizard had to more rely on the Tank and could help the Tank in controlling the adds: freezing, slowing and proneing them to lower the onslaught on it.
(But right now, the Tank has to play even more flawlessly than ever before, it is surely not an improvement when the Tank has a harder life, is more unreliable and is nearly unable to withstand a wave for seconds without the aid of the whole team.)
Can't hold the shield up for more than 4 seconds? hahaha! That must be a really heavy shield.
Yep, we GFs need to do some powerlifting training with the aid of anabolic steroids and after a 14 week cycle of Dianabol + Testosterone-Enanthate we will be buff enough to keep that shield up for at least 10 seconds.. Of course till then the devs would've messed something else up.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Comments
Actually I wouldnt say CON should have deflect, as you said it doesnt make much sense, but maybe Intel or wis. As deflecting in armor does take some skill to learn how to do. But its very likely to be done, just more difficult to do than lighter classes. As a fighter, a guardian one at that one, learning how to deflect an attack with a shield instead of blocking or using a pauldron on your shoulder to to deflect a blow that was aimed for a more vital area take something of an advanced nature to learn how to do given its more difficult. So it would make more sense for one to specifically study and acquire through wisdom or intellect to deflect attacks in such a manner.
it being in Con. It would be nice but that would just make every GF just simply ridiculous to kill with the already boosted HP they have, and the ability to mostly mitigate damage (instead of ALL like they currently do, though I still feel the current block is better, just needs more of it). And get more of it, instead of .5% every point like the other lighter classes do.
I think you have mistaken "deflection" (an object gets deflected by either colliding with another object, such as > an armor/shield or a magical spell.) for "dodging" and dodging does not really exist in this game as a passive stat. In other words, you are entirely wrong. The protector has a tier 1 feat which adds deflection, every single GF item adds deflection. Shields aswell as armors were/are designed with the one and ONLY purpose of deflecting incoming attacks. This is why armors tend to have triangular shaped aspects such as the front of the harness, the helmet and yes, even shields were not flat because a flat shield can only defend against so many hits before it gets destroyed. If there were no "deflection" points on shields, the one blocking an incoming attack would break their arm and get killed. Deflection has also, nothing to do with having enough dexterity (obviously).
Let me take it a step further. Modern wartanks, use the same method (triangular shaped plates) in order to deflect incoming projectiles.
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However, IF you insist on telling these crazy made up stories, at least back them up with logical facts, otherwise it makes you look really silly because what you are claiming is basically not the reality and all that you are accomplishing is spreading misinformation. Stop it.
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If anything, trickster rogues should not be able to deflect that often, they have nothing to deflect attacks with. (Pyjamas are not bullet proof).
The situation is dramatic.basically GFs are now on preview with out block.Stamina based block was is and willl be a terrible idea.5 -6 GFs said that immediatelly after Ayroux brought up this terrible idea 3 months ago.Combine this with a 80% only damage stop,the FS and the TR "balances" and we are in a really epic trolly (sic) situation:
After dozens of threads of desperate GFs that were asking for more deflect and dps the devs gave neither and in addition nerfed block,FS and TR.
If i did not know the NW reality i would said with 99% confidence that are just trolling us.
This happens when instead of listening to dozens of experienced GFs like Colonel,Skalt,Rip,Staggy,lv99, etc the devs listened to a GWF and 2 CWs.Great.Which GWF and CWs proposed "stamina" based block,and the damage to pass thorugh shield.
Cause most of the other classes are completely clueless as concerning GF reality they think when GF does not tank and run for his life/disengage that...."omg he lost aggro!!"
From there came the absurd ridicoulous silly idiotic terrible stupid tragic comments and proposals GF to gain more aggro.
From CWs that though that when a GF does not block is not cause his block is gone and his life is at stake with 15% health......but because he lost threat and aggro.
I am eye witness to situations in PK last boss when i was still 10k gs and running to stay alive,that cws were chatting me "why you lost your aggro"? "block **** it!!press shift!!" "useless tank just block!!"
And sadly Devs listened to cws and the sworn enemies and direct competitors of GFs,the manga-hentai FFXIV class the GWFs.
I am 100% sure that after a mod will see this post he will delete it.NVm.Who ever reads it is good.I know tha most real Gfs and not GWF alt owning GFs,are really really sad
I lost all my hopes.All.There is no hope.None.I am at 340 fame in IWD and for three days i do not have the courage to finish the campaign to get my armor.If the proposed changes pass this willl be the final death of a NW class the GF.
I joined the forums on january but i had 1 lv60 Gf and a lv 39 GF since beta utill i lost access to my hotmail account.So i started a new.
I am Head Hunter,Blood thirsty ,Dungeon master i have all the titles in NW .(except the last pvp cause i cannot triple kill)I earned all of them by just pugging 99,9% of the time.All the guilds i was were tiny.I have 3 fully equipped sets with soulforge ,rank7/8s.Valiant,KC,profound tactician.I have greater plaguefire and greater bronzewood profound cong pvp equipped swords.I am capped for ages at 50k glory.i have Stone 3-4 blue and 8-9 green companions,epic horse.
^^^
So?who cares might all say?Who GaF about your gear?The point is still after all this time in this game i am getting owned by GWFs and HRs/TRs who just button mash.
In pve i wear KC ,rank8s and use enforced threat ,Into the fray and artifact vanguard's banner.**** it i cannot even enter a T1 dung even in legit channel.
A CW made a thread one month ago who suggested to reduce the block stopping all damage and not to have infinite block.Bamm!!!On preview it happened.
GWFs exploit and troll whole teams by using roar in succesion.No prob let them have it for 4 months.
Gfs beg for buffs for 6-7 months.O well.just ignore them and to teach them a lesson give them a good nerf.
I liked so much this game.i liked the art the style the community.The graphics the superb animations.i liked how a small company like cryptic made a marvel of a game.
But somehow this game is not for GFs.For reasons unknown to anyone.All can crit and dps.All except "tanks".Which Gfs are not according tto the game ;they are leaders -controllers-defenders.hence the three branches.What to say?
Nothing.GFs was dying ,is dying and when the changes will go on live it will just die for good.
This is your game "NeverWinter ,Dungeons GWfs and dragons".Enjoy it
So we ask for a more reliable guard and what do you do ? You give is a guard that breaks even faster! Who's bright idea was it to make it drop so fast ? I just tried a Totam in the Pass on Preview. First as a Protector then as a Conq. Failed both times as with your "fix" I lose guard faster vs 4-6 mobs then I lose it on live. If I fight one strong critter i can dance around it and block strategically - cool, and what about 6 strong critters with aoe cc who you have to block or you're chain controlled and probably killed ? Shall I dance around them too with this new increased movement speed while blocking ? Did I roll a Guardian Fighter at character creation or a Ballerina ?
So, great job on givin' me 5K more HP which is pretty much the only postive so far. You got time tho so fix the rest too.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I am tired too, so please try not to defame others personally just because they have a different opinion, and it is by far no valid argument to post repeatedly stuff close to: you have no clue what you are saying, because that is simply a personal attack and I am tired of scrolling through all this personal bashing with a lack of insightful arguments (I do not mean you exclusively).
If ever I read some real statement here then it is this: I want more damage and I want to parade with my shield all day long in front of me.
I tested the new system and it is doable with this new system like with the old, just the duration is much too short; I by myself was never for a Stamina-based Block but it is another approach and I hope too, they rethink many things they have changed as of this patch release.
Yeah, it is nice to see that Block is not diminished by damage but this? This is as bad as the old Block responded to strong hits: it is down in seconds. But the irony is that all Guardians have now a reliable Block, one which breaks in seconds -- promised.
Sounds right, although the logic of the real world do not need to have an impact on a game, all the more in a fantasy setting. But even in original D&D plate armours make toons harder to hit, so to speak, they enhance "Deflection" and not a Damage Resistance.
Apart from that, how consistent is that a Great Weapon Fighter ignores Damage Resistance via Constitution? As that is the stat for them to supplement Armour Penetration.
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Attention, self quote incoming in 3,2,1...
Have a nice day, sir.
Prove it but --
So, "attention" is a good advise to seasoned Mr. incoming-self-quote-with-no-connection-to-my-post.
You just answered yourself right there.
A TR in this game is a very triangular tank.
^ this right here.
Its harder to do with armor simply because its heavier and bulkier in that manner without particular skill, but much more reliable to do once pulled off.
Thats why TR's have higher deflect severity. Because they are lighter so they can deflect most of the attack with thier dexterity (actual dexterity not the stat)
Where heavy armored people have higher deflecting chances with a lower deflect severity, because all the armor provides many opportunities to deflect, in addition to holding a shield. This is why I say wisdom or Intel stats should have deflect chance increase at full 1% per point. Because it takes training and wisdom in the art of combat to effectively pull off deflecting in such conditions. Otherwise one would waste more energy trying to deflect when it would be better to soak damage in the armor without the proper knowledge in how to do so.
Then by this analogy, it should prove that a person wearing a shield can deflect better and more frequently than a leather person fighting with 2 daggers.
Its the same as trying to parry a punch with weighted wrist wraps on to put it into contextual perspective.
Where two daggers allow for more nimbleness deflecting majority of the damage they would have tooken otherwise. With the shield you'd be deflecting the attack, but the shield itself would still take some of the impact damage, because the weight and bulk itself cannot deflect majority of the impact but only part of it. Its not agile enough. To deflect you have to anticipate the attack and have enough room to work with. Its much harder to do that in bulky armor and a large shield without not knowing what to look for and how to postition yourself in the right moments for specific incoming attacks. Much more contextual than simply blocking it.
Case closed it seems.
Do you think that is ok? They give the option to other classes to play a damaging role and give them the tools needed; but for the Guardian Fighter, they give the option to play a tanking role but not the tools needed? That is: you are able to grab the Aggro but have a hard time to withstand the imminent onslaught? To me it sounds not well thought out.
The Devs seem too reluctant to create a class which has the tools to withstand incoming damage quite well for whatever reason, a Guardian Fighter had always to absolve a gauntlet running in dungeons and would die on the slightest mistakes which made it at all times an unreliable tank.
On the preview, a Conquerer GF with 9k Power is able to reach a damage level of a directly copied Thaumaturge Control Wizard, but the other way around, a Guardian Fighter who tries to hold Aggro as good as it can will have a hard time handling this new Enforced Threat, and I fear the Devs are willing to reduce the target cap of Enforced Threat rather than to enhance the defensive capabilities of the Guardian Fighter.
Its pretty pathetic in terms of actual +damage % compared to other damage trees. Plus with the guard meter in such a pitiful place on LIVE (and the PTR) it will need significant changes and I honestly think it would be much better for the class to have this + damage feat assigned to another value rather than guard meter - leave guard for survival.
Its only an idea. When I played my GF, I often found the capstone tree really lacked luster due to the fact that even with a Conq GF you cant help but block otherwise you die, the concept really only worked ok in PVE when you had support to keep you alive. In PVP block drops so fast its pathetic and even a GF in powerstack gear the damage bonus was about 12-13% (more for a PVE GF).
I think a change like this still accomplishes a similar goal of being a "reckless attacker" Heck I would even give the feat a stronger + damage % or maybe make the full damage buff kick in at 50% HP so its basically a 1% damage bonus for every 2% of your HP missing up to 25%.
Especially with Guard being changes to a stamina function, I think it will penalize GF too much since you wont even have to take a hit to lose guard - thus lose power - thus lose damage...
With Villians menace and endless consumption with around 10% LS you can go back to full hp off 7 to 8 mobs since you get bonus healing from having more power, it works even with broken guard.
Dang, who taught you, all these cool tricks? ^^.
But I am not the one who has been preaching this ideology since time immemorial.
=D
I sure hope not. This is the sort of Enforced Threat that we've been needing since beta. Hopefully they would much rather rework the Paragon Feat Trees to support us being able to handle the onslaught, than go the easy way out. Right now, Enforced Threat feels so fun. It presents so many possibilities for tanking.
They reworked the CW and HR trees significantly, I'm not sure what's stopping them from reworking the GF trees. We've been needing such reworks for a long time now. For now, however, I'm just hoping we can finally play GFs with roles as diverse as the other classes.
We just need to keep the block the way it is just allow it to take a few more hits before breaking....
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
The changes on the Control Wizard are noticeable in a dungeon; I ran Castle Never (was a copied Thaumaturge) and the damage was on par with a 9k power Conquerer Guardian Fighter, the control powers were still useful, Icy Terrain and Steal Time were ready quite often, and Arcane Singularity was much weaker in controlling big groups of enemies, so an actual Tank was really useful. The downside of these changes was that although we had two Tanks, it seemed needed as one died at some point -- but we had no Devoted Cleric, so it was maybe just the missing Healer.
All in all, a Control Wizard had to more rely on the Tank and could help the Tank in controlling the adds: freezing, slowing and proneing them to lower the onslaught on it.
(But right now, the Tank has to play even more flawlessly than ever before, it is surely not an improvement when the Tank has a harder life, is more unreliable and is nearly unable to withstand a wave for seconds without the aid of the whole team.)
Yep, we GFs need to do some powerlifting training with the aid of anabolic steroids and after a 14 week cycle of Dianabol + Testosterone-Enanthate we will be buff enough to keep that shield up for at least 10 seconds.. Of course till then the devs would've messed something else up.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.