Putting WM into the trapper tree will make it a much more viable feat tree for all around use, since right now it's only good for a few utilities it offers, which aren't much
HRs also can heal themselves more then a DC can heal them, which seems pretty off to me, not to mention the damage in the combat tree, an HR shouldn't get the best of both worlds, very high self healing and high melee damage. If WM was in the trapper tree then a lot more HRs would use it
Just did some fights. Survivability is way down and you get punished pretty severely for mistakes, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I was playing pretty sloppy and died quite a few times because of it, whereas before I would heal through a certain number of mistakes easily.
Still should be able to take out TRs which I consider the HR specialty although they hurt more. 1v1 we still should be decent against most classes but 2v1 I don't see us having a chance unlike TR, which is why it makes sense that we should be able to take out TRs. It's harder now though.
We're probably now in a pretty good spot and the countless threads about OP HRs should end (to be replaced with countless threads about OP GFs), although I would still love to get some kind of CC break, even if it's on a long cooldown, or get constricting arrow stuns back.
We run the risk of being too easy to lock down. In group fights it's nothing but a long state of being controlled with any focus at all. On live we survive this because of high self-healing.
Not sure a combat HR will have much of a role at all in group fights besides staying out of battle, not using any of his feats and trying to get off lame-*** aimed shots (i.e. basically not using any of his feats).
Feedback:
I am concerned that Wilds Medicine has been adjusted based on feedback from fights in Icewind Dale where Healing Depression does not apply. This stands a good chance of making it underpowered in Domination matches where healing is halved.
Feedback:
I am concerned that Wilds Medicine has been adjusted based on feedback from fights in Icewind Dale where Healing Depression does not apply. This stands a good chance of making it underpowered in Domination matches where healing is halved.
^this
WILD MEDICINE - ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK
From no ICD and unlimited stacks to 1 sec ICD and 10 stacks it's kinda ridicoulus.
With all the upcoming changes Mod4 appears to be one where classes in PvP are going to deal ludicrous amounts of damage, and such a change to Wild Medicine is horribly wrong considering how the HR combat spec isn't able to dish any dps comparable to CWs'/GWFs'/GFs' one.
Either remove the ICD or set it lower than how it is atm. 0.25s would do, 0.5 is already quite bad.
Robbin' In Da Hood - HR stands for "Hate (is) Real"
7 years old PC, connection laggy as sh--, be afraid & get rekt
Feedback:
I am concerned that Wilds Medicine has been adjusted based on feedback from fights in Icewind Dale where Healing Depression does not apply. This stands a good chance of making it underpowered in Domination matches where healing is halved.
Suggestion: Wild Medicine: Can only gain stacks within 20 feet of the target
Basis of suggestion: Testing this feat after the 1 second icd I can safely say it is still very much the deciding factor in an HRs battle. Using only 2 immunity skills and 2 dodges, my friend gained almost his entire health bar from about 5k hp, all the way to 27k hp, in about 10-15 seconds, he only got to 10 stacks once, but after that it was already impossible to beat him, because he just kept getting his hitpoints back while steadly draining mine away... The point of Wild Medicine is to make HRs more effective in close combat, so to fix the feat to help only in close combat, an HR should only gain wild medicine stacks if the opponent is withing 10-20 feet of the target, which would make more sense because it was even stated that this feat is suppost to be used in close combat aswell as being in the combat tree. This would also give HRs a better way of laying out their tactics, either if they want to stay close and gain the wild medicine stacks, or stay at a distance to avoid taking damage from melee players ect.
Suggestion: Wild Medicine: Can only gain stacks within 20 feet of the target
Basis of suggestion: Testing this feat after the 1 second icd I can safely say it is still very much the deciding factor in an HRs battle. Using only 2 immunity skills and 2 dodges, my friend gained almost his entire health bar from about 5k hp, all the way to 27k hp, in about 10-15 seconds, he only got to 10 stacks once, but after that it was already impossible to beat him, because he just kept getting his hitpoints back while steadly draining mine away... The point of Wild Medicine is to make HRs more effective in close combat, so to fix the feat to help only in close combat, an HR should only gain wild medicine stacks if the opponent is withing 10-20 feet of the target, which would make more sense because it was even stated that this feat is suppost to be used in close combat aswell as being in the combat tree. This would also give HRs a better way of laying out their tactics, either if they want to stay close and gain the wild medicine stacks, or stay at a distance to avoid taking damage from melee players ect.
Consideration: healing depression is not working in ice wind dale. so the heals are basically doubled. Not listen to ther overnerfing proposes. 1 second icd basically distroyed the emblem of seldarine.
to mike: 18k icy rays should be enough to overcome some healing.
Feedback on Scything Blades - having it only to melee is very bad. HR can do some use if we have melee and range in 25 feet. This is tier 4 skill - not any hybrid will be really taking it and benefiting from i- only combat HRs. . But this will allow HRs to be useful in both stands now. To make HR fight ground and decent damage area. We don't require trappers tron roots - just damage increase in both stands in 25 feet, not just melee. We still wont reach 25 feet limit with just 10 feet max melee skill distance - so why you have 25 feet is out of logic anyway.
General - we do need CC immunity/cc breaker on Escape or Fox. Something! Combat HR need some damage booster- even with 40% piercing - weeeeeek. Even weaker then it was before with nerf of CS 10% and 10% damage increase and cool-downs of Range - most HR damage dealers encounters.
To show what is now on preview as a combat HR and how much Wild Medicine is nerfed.
Healed log -party of trolls with Fell troll in lead. Near entrance
Currently Ive ~400 in lifesteal. That gives me 8.5% total as heal points recovered from damage.
You can see that WM is too weak to keep me alive alone. - I've like 1800 Regen plus 300 from batleborn. Around 45% deflect rate max now.
Damage done during fight in "normal" mode - 70% or melee and 30% of range. Basically range just for putting Rain of arrows and thorn ward.
If you apply 40% of piercing - very very good. But 25 feet damage bonus is very much needed now.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
edited August 2014
Feedback:
Yesterday I ran VT with the same group three times, starting with Archer, then Combat, then Trapper.
Archer: I think we hit a sweet spot here. Very much dependant on Aimed Shot spamming, so it shines against Valindra and needs a lot of aggro-managing support with Shatterspine (even if I´m using the Owl as active). Without a GF I think it will be far more difficult to manage high DPS. Anyway feedback from the whole party was positive (party was GF, 2CW, DC, HR) and the HR was the Paingiver, while not killing the most enemies (the 2 CW came in first). With sufficient Lifesteal survivability is reasonable (if you get surrounded you can drop Rain of Arrows on your head for healing) as long as you are a Pathfinder and can add Cruel Recover to Lifesteal. I switched to Stormwarden in the middle of the dungeon and found more difficult managing adds.
Aspect of the Lone Wolf works pretty well anyway so I have to say that PvE-wise I like it.
The Archer really works as a long-distance pew-pew DPS so I guess that the target of the Devs was hit in this case.
Combat: more difficult to play in order to bring on reasonable DPS. I tried different set-ups but the only one that seems to work is alternating encounters and Aimed-Strike flurry-powered attacks. Getting out of the encounter-Aimed Strike routine affects DPS quite a lot.
Wild Medicine is quite effective and the Combat HR has some real survivability (even if I have only 1,3k Deflect) as long as Aspect of the Lone Wolf is up. The funny thing is that you start liking DoT effects while with the Archer that lives on spamming Aimed Shot you absolutely hate them. My feeling here is that there´s still some work to do especially on the damage of melee at-wills other than Aimed Strike. I tried all (Clear the Ground, Rapid Strike, ...) and only Aimed Strike makes sense. Unfortunately Aimed Strike forces you to stay in place for some time and feels awkward when you think that the Combat HR should feel like a rabid wolf.
Looking at 4e D&D what I think the melee-side of the HR lacks are serious dailies (where is Blade Cascade?).
The group didn´t like the Combat HR too much.
Trapper: pretty good with Shatterspine and most mobs bunches. Hindering Strike, Constrictive and Rain of Arrows work pretty well together. Damage before the final fight was close to Combat (3-4 % higher actually) and the group liked the Trapper more than Combat for the root effects and the ability to do high sustained damage to some mobs (conjurers in particular than can be rooted and then subjected to Rain of Arrows in full).
The final fight with Valindra showed an underwhelming performance (it was the most difficult fight due to lack of single target DPS and control being useless).
Once again I think that something like Blade Cascade would have been really good. A multi-attack high-damage daily. Something that in PvP could be easily dodged but would work well in PvE and would make all the AP generation feats more interesting.
If we had a reasonable daily it would also make sense to have Thorned Roots generate APs when used against control-immune targets.
At current stage in boss fights an Archer that can spam 40k or more Aimed Shots (current record I have is 135,966 in the Tuern Skirmish and I don´t use Vorpal) will always completely outshine Combat and Trapper and basically boss fights are the difficult parts of all dungeons, so there is little interest in playing a Combat or Trapper in PvE.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Wild medicine: tested today during the downtime.
It's now quite impossible i would say to reach 10 stacks (max reached is 6 after several seconds with 47% deflect chance).
the number on the screenshot of the guy over me clearly shows how laughable wild medicine heals are now.
Add CC immunity to fox shift. Reduce max shifts to 5. Decrease stamina regen by 33%. The problem with HRs is that that are too easily destroyed by ranged CC. The problem on the opposing end is they are virtually unkillable by Melee who can't hit them to save their life.
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someonediesMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,257Arc User
edited August 2014
Feedback: increase Thornward AOE to 30' blast, reduce encounter CD to 18 sec.
Feedback
Couple of pages before I showed math about ideal case when WM can get 5 sec of top heal. Now after testing it on live - WM stacks up to 6 cap. Even with corrupted wolfs pack on me - constantly pronning me - 8 corrrupted wolf nailed my like a baby - WM was 1-3 second at 6 cap. So we can thank you all GWF and ayroux especially for whinning about HR and ruining combat HRs. I don't know why is it specific to GWf to whine all the time to nerf other classes - But they do this very good. HRs can feel results in 10 days.
And if you ask me why I had chance to look at WM stack in midle of the batle? Because we don't have any possible CC or any CC or CC braker! with 6-8 wolfs on me - my only hope was Cleric that was focusing my heal on me - 100% percent of heal of really good cleric. Without him - dead meat. I did not have a chance even to use fox cunning! even if I triggered it - guess what? too many prone atacks! im down proned again - stuck in the midle of the pack with my hands tight!
It is not a tank! it is not a damage dealer! Combat HR is some "evil ghost" from under the bed that GWF kids are beeing scared! And with current changes combat HR will be that ghost indeed. Nobody sees cause none will exist since not needed.
So now Id really either see GWF getting in the same state - when you have 5-8 corrupted wolf dominate you with all your 17k GS - as combat HRs now or finally some dev reaction on all of this things we bring into, all the feedback we give in wain. I d really like to see feedback. From Developers who are responcible for this game.
Feedback
- right now we essencially need CC imunity, CC braker for melee HR - fox, maraduers or what ever skill - something!
We need way to survive - with all the GWF whine about WM and useless 2.5% of deflect change. How about you change 2.5 of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> into + 25% of deflection severity? This will not effect WM - it is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> now, you can even get rid it - as GWF whine. But combat HRs need way not to recover from 10% of health to 100% in even 20-40 seconds from WM but to be able to withstand or deflect burst damage! from boss or from GWF
We need increase in damage - Archer HR dominated combat spec like twice at least. Since current piercing and flurry are not so good as expected- more over 15% of nerf of main at-will damage and 10% of C strike nefr - decrease a lot that same base damage that serves for flurry or piercing was too big at the moment. We just - can not deal enought of damage to start ticks.
As a cherry on top of combat HR grave - we don't use archer part - mostly HR in combat focus in melee stand and pick skill that do at least some damage -even how week it is accually is in comparation to archer's thron or rain. I don't assume that we should have same amount of damage in archer stand as archers. But we could benefic from 25 feet damage increase both from combat and archer part.
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futuunMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2014
Feedback: Wild medicine
It's impossible to reach 10 stacks with this 1s ITC (tested with 55% deflect chance).
Now this feat is useless as ****. Good job -_-
Feedback: HR
With no damage, no CC (yea we have a lot of awesome 0.75s CC skills with 16-19s CD), no CC break, no CC immunity... Consider our feedback, now we desperately needs any form of CC break/immunity.
Without this HR will be worst PvP class in mod4.
Feedback: General HR (combat, since I cannot imagine PvPing with Archery like I do in Live, so sad...)
- class is still quite good, but lost a few ezy-mode buttons (constrict, bugged set)
- CC is adequate - is you get in melee. Boar, Shift will get you out of Icy Rays for example if you are close. Disruptive the only saving grace at range. If you cannot get in melee, you will end up dead for sure.
- DPS is adequate, but there's almost no burst in combat unless you get things to proc.
- very low crit without any true possibility to get it back like we had with Archery Correcting Aim.
- still quite tanky. CWs in Rank 10s died from my Fey Thistle, plaguefire and Careful Attack by spamming abilities on me while I was basically AFKing being permaCCed for seconds. This is NOT fun for either class.
- reflective damage what the hell?!? See above.
- Wilds Medicine never reaches full stacks in PvP. Fix it.
- you removed all the cooldown reductions. REALLY?
Suggestions:
- reduce the reflective damage possibilities, move passive DPS to active, skill DPS.
- maybe reduce tankyness (passive defense) and give HRs a much sought-after CC immune skill such as ITC (active defense), but shorter and balanced (good luck at that). If you get Icy Rayed, all you can do is pray nowadays. Also if the CW is competent you will be CCed like 60% of the fight. Not so fun, again, for both parts, because the CW will probably still end up dead from reflects and it's honestly dumb.
- deflect builds based on reflect are DUMB. Remove this stuff from the game or make it tick for insignificant amounts. People need to lay off crutches in mechanics and land their abilities instead.
Overall opinion: HR is still good, but:
- combat is annoying to play. I want an active, skillful spec like my Archery on Live.
- the amount of skill required to play the class went down, exactly like with my CW.
NOT GOOD.
Are you trying to make the PvP game easy so n00bs won't complain or something?
Thanks to server down yesterday night there where many player on test server. if i was able to get a not so far not so frustrating fight against GWF and GF, i have to admit that actual HR possibility are way out of league, they simply have too much on too much aspect cumulating too much damage/healing/dodge/reflect at same time. each try i made was less than 10 second fight an each fight i saw involving an HR, HR was winning, (the only case i saw an HR down was again an other HR lol.
I M not qualified to say modifie this or this, i do not play HR (may changing if staying like that), BUT here my sug HR as actually too much for other class (and whatever the class is) and i suggest for HR community to not stand like that and start make some comment to adjust that else when it will come from GOD \gentleman crush\ you may receive much more problem for your pve part than you would like to have ad only receive the crush part
Overall, the TWO "issues" with HRs (melee) is:
1)Piercing Blades - Id rather see this ability damage increased and THEN have it respect DR (for a net zero effect if need be).
2) Wilds Medicine - Its not very good in PVE (compared to PVP) and its TOO strong in PVP (even with 1 sec CD AND HD). For this I really firmly believe that ZERO stacking but just a pure mechanic LIKE: "Dodging an attack heals you for 8%-10% of your HP over 5-6 seconds (so 4%-5% over 5-6 seconds in pvp)" - This incorporates the dodge mechanic and gives the HR control over when that can proc. Skilled HRs would have near 100% uptime since they would shift everytime the buff drops off. No stacking, no refreshing.
Now the only issue would be against "CWs" who can control the entire fight. This is where I think Combat HRs DO need some form of "ITC". So they have some "CC breaking" or "cc immunity" aside from dodge. I dont think they need control but more CC immunity ability.
I just think trying to keep this broken "crutch" instead of addressing the REAL issue will actually fix and balance HRs and make them more fun to play.
Im ok to give up WM at all. Now it is nothing anyway. But we need something instead !
Change it and give us 20-25% deflect severity for combat.
OR Give more damage to trapper part.
OR Give some CC for archer.
It will not fix issues with broken dodge. It will fix core HR problem with requirement to regenerate health crazy fast to stay in fight. It will fix squishiness of class.
It will not fix lack of CC breakers But will give a change to survive beeing CCed.
I d love to see CC immunity for 3-5 sec on Fox cunning hit Or cc breaker on Mara. This is what we have been asking for.
In D&D 3/.5 hunters are not crazy regenerating - they are deflecting damage. Being able to don't take damage as well as CC/root and deal damage is what rangers are in D&D. If someone cares about lore and that small D&D symbol you see when you start game.
Feedback ....
Cut down the WM to half of its current value, make it a tier 1 or 2 so that trapper and archer can get it and increase the life steal ability some for combat path so they have to actively fight to gain life.
Remove the change for constricted arrow from the archer path and make snare stick 3-4 sec for the trapper path but let the combat path stay at is is concerning this.
Then up the dam some for the trapper path (archer already has less dam against players) and give both archer and trapper path some anti cc ability (like some suggested marauders could break cc which would server 2 purposes - 1 many would not feet thorns and use marauders instead and 2 it would give both archer and trapper some added survivability).
There are some things that has to change when it comes to the synergy between switching stances in Trapper path but I will write another feedback thread concerning that subject alone.
Feedback:
I wanted to stay away from hard numbers and just get a 'feel' of each path with a few hours of PvE gameplay at level 60.
Archery: unfortunately, this turned out to be the most fun. That has more to do with the other paths not meeting their potential than it did this path being awesome. The damage output is nice and having to manage your aggro felt challenging, but overall there are just a couple powers that will be on everyone's bar because they vastly outperform all the other ones. Kind of vanilla.
Combat: The first changes implemented on preview would have made this path more useful in dungeons, but after the tweaks, it's absolutely not playable. No damage, no control, no utility. I suppose this path was made with the PvPer in mind, which is fine, but it's a hinderance in a party. I would compare it to a 13-14k GS group taking a 9200 GS ranger into CN. It just won't help the party succeed. Again, this feedback is from a PvE point of view.
Trapper: This path is so close to being really amazing. Adding DoT to some of our control powers was a great idea, I think the damage just needs to be upped a bit. Even with the mechanic of damage boosts when switching stances, it still feels a bit underpowered. For fun I put a Tenebrous and G Bilethorn on to watch the cascade of numbers. That was the most enjoyable time with this path.
I apologize for not having solid ideas of HOW to make the paths better, but I figured I'd leave that to the pros. I'm sure you guys have tons of data not available to the player base that helps make your decisions.
Cheers
EDIT for a question. Do the dailies respect the stance you're in, or the stance they represent? For instance, I'm in melee stance and I load up my damage bonuses for ranged powers. I let fly a seismic shot. Does the damage increase because that's a 'ranged' power, or does it do nothing because I'm still in melee stance? OR - does it add a stack of serpent because I did damage in melee stance?
*Legit Community*
Heather - Ranger
James - Paladin
Jet - Warlock
Royal - Cleric
Gray - Rogue
Red - Wizard
Ios - Barbarian
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mircalla83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 36
edited August 2014
Trapper and Archer do NOT need access to Medicine without SACRIFICE of their Capstones.
Trapper? They actually get CONTROL, at the COST of survivability and damage - and even THEN, they get a few FAT DoTs. Their CONTROL is their survivability.
Archer? They get pure DAMAGE, at the COST of survivability and control. They are supposed to hit hard, from afar.
What the CLASS MURDERERS from the PvP community, including those calling themselves RANGERS are now trying to pull off?
First claim 'Medicine not needed'. Then get it nerfed over and over and over and over and over again.
And 'Medicine nerfed, then put in as T2'? So what, you want the vastly SUPERIOR Damage or Control of Archer/Trapper, at no cost?
Fine. Better ditch that Ranged Damage bonus fron 'Unflinching Aim' then. You now have one of the core features from Combat available, so why need Damage. Or what about Ancient Roots? Why not put that as T2 then, too, since the Trapper also gets Medicine then?
If Medicine is removed, they BETTER add at least 25% Deflection Severity and COMBAT EXCLUSIVE Control Breaks/Immunities. Because otherwise, why even bring it in PvP? If it is only playable with 2x 407 Regen Rings, Legendary Waters, Legendary Ravenskull, Illusionary Regeneration and PvP Gear, aka STACKED WITH HP, that is a sign of a feat line being BROKEN.
Also, Medicine removed/turned to T2? Then better give back the 10% Crit Chance while in Melee, and boost either the Capstone or the Piercing Damage even more.
Better Solution: Nerf the HELL out of the REGENERATION Stat. For Medicine, one actually needs to put oneself into Danger. This is SIGNIFICANTLY more 'skillful' gameplay than 'run away until regenerated enough. Put an axe to ALL 407 Regen Rings, done. Halved Regen per Ring, give Lifesteal or some other defensive, appropriate for the class stat instead, they are PvE gear, not PvP Gear.
Any further Nerfs to Medicine MUST be accompanied by nerfs to the other 2 lines. And if it gets turned into a T2 Feat, the two paths have to get SIGNIFICANT reductions in performance, since they will get the best of 2 worlds in that case.
Even better Idea: Break PvP once and for good, get the vocal minority that only lives in their '3-node-roundabout' to LEAVE (given the fact that quite a few 'Elite' PvP groups have gotten caught as exploiters in the past, their accomplishments are in doubt anyway), and get back to the CORE of DnD - and instead of catering to the PvP community, who wants either a 'roflstomp victim' class (Because of 'Meta' Garbage), maybe invest the development manpower into hmm, some kind of Randomizer for Group Content, for example?
So that not every run in a Dungeon is the same, NPC Enemies actively seeking to counter the current group composition, and, as it has been proven to work in another Cryptic Game, actually work together?
Give us a CC-break on Marauder's Escape/Rush. Do whatever you want with wild's medicine.
Many HRs have been asking for a CC-break and nobody has voiced a concern against it.
Wild's Medicine is frustrating to play against, and now it's frustrating to have because it doesn't even do that much for all the complaints it gets. But currently we need it since we don't have a CC-break.
Melee HR remains the only melee-oriented class without a CC-break or immunity ability.
My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
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mircalla83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 36
edited August 2014
Suggestion:
Remove Medicine
Move T4 Feat 'Bloodlust' to T3, double its effect to 30%, switching out of Melee Stance instantly removes all stacks.
Add new T4 Feat: Leaf in the Wind: Gain 5/10/15/20/25% More Deflect Severity when in Melee Stance
Add Effect to T5 Feat: Your Fox Shift can now be used while being controlled. Using Fox Shift removes all control effects and makes you immune while it lasts. This does not apply to Fox's Cunning.
Tell Archers and Trappers to go choke on a bagel.
At this point delete WM and put something to gain 25 per cent control resist and 25 per cent deflect severity. As it stays right now those are 5 points wasted.
To be fair i would rather run archery and GG
Comments
Yes, isuuck2 is right. Please fix the immunity component to maruader's escape and rush. For some reason mine always bugs out.
Feedback:
Switching stances: Increase cd to 2 sec.
Nerf Swift Footwork:
Your Stamina regenerates 1/2/3/4/5% faster.
Neft Extra Action:
Increase your Action Points gain by 1/2/3/4/5%.
Dead🔪Putting WM into the trapper tree will make it a much more viable feat tree for all around use, since right now it's only good for a few utilities it offers, which aren't much
HRs also can heal themselves more then a DC can heal them, which seems pretty off to me, not to mention the damage in the combat tree, an HR shouldn't get the best of both worlds, very high self healing and high melee damage. If WM was in the trapper tree then a lot more HRs would use it
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Still should be able to take out TRs which I consider the HR specialty although they hurt more. 1v1 we still should be decent against most classes but 2v1 I don't see us having a chance unlike TR, which is why it makes sense that we should be able to take out TRs. It's harder now though.
We're probably now in a pretty good spot and the countless threads about OP HRs should end (to be replaced with countless threads about OP GFs), although I would still love to get some kind of CC break, even if it's on a long cooldown, or get constricting arrow stuns back.
We run the risk of being too easy to lock down. In group fights it's nothing but a long state of being controlled with any focus at all. On live we survive this because of high self-healing.
Not sure a combat HR will have much of a role at all in group fights besides staying out of battle, not using any of his feats and trying to get off lame-*** aimed shots (i.e. basically not using any of his feats).
I am concerned that Wilds Medicine has been adjusted based on feedback from fights in Icewind Dale where Healing Depression does not apply. This stands a good chance of making it underpowered in Domination matches where healing is halved.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
^this
WILD MEDICINE - ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK
From no ICD and unlimited stacks to 1 sec ICD and 10 stacks it's kinda ridicoulus.
With all the upcoming changes Mod4 appears to be one where classes in PvP are going to deal ludicrous amounts of damage, and such a change to Wild Medicine is horribly wrong considering how the HR combat spec isn't able to dish any dps comparable to CWs'/GWFs'/GFs' one.
Either remove the ICD or set it lower than how it is atm. 0.25s would do, 0.5 is already quite bad.
7 years old PC, connection laggy as sh--, be afraid & get rekt
I just checked and healing depression works and here are 2 videos (outside of PvP and inside of PvP) to prove it:
Normal Healing: http://youtu.be/4yUo_rUWnMk
Healing Depression: http://youtu.be/tLgYIb8kQkQ
Edit: uploading as of this post, so might not immediately be available.
Agreed. We're pretty squishy now. Unlike say CWs, we can't stay out of range either.
Suggestion: Wild Medicine: Can only gain stacks within 20 feet of the target
Basis of suggestion: Testing this feat after the 1 second icd I can safely say it is still very much the deciding factor in an HRs battle. Using only 2 immunity skills and 2 dodges, my friend gained almost his entire health bar from about 5k hp, all the way to 27k hp, in about 10-15 seconds, he only got to 10 stacks once, but after that it was already impossible to beat him, because he just kept getting his hitpoints back while steadly draining mine away... The point of Wild Medicine is to make HRs more effective in close combat, so to fix the feat to help only in close combat, an HR should only gain wild medicine stacks if the opponent is withing 10-20 feet of the target, which would make more sense because it was even stated that this feat is suppost to be used in close combat aswell as being in the combat tree. This would also give HRs a better way of laying out their tactics, either if they want to stay close and gain the wild medicine stacks, or stay at a distance to avoid taking damage from melee players ect.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Consideration: healing depression is not working in ice wind dale. so the heals are basically doubled. Not listen to ther overnerfing proposes. 1 second icd basically distroyed the emblem of seldarine.
to mike: 18k icy rays should be enough to overcome some healing.
Wild's Medicine is respecting healing depression in IWD (the final line in the log of the screenshot).
General - we do need CC immunity/cc breaker on Escape or Fox. Something! Combat HR need some damage booster- even with 40% piercing - weeeeeek. Even weaker then it was before with nerf of CS 10% and 10% damage increase and cool-downs of Range - most HR damage dealers encounters.
Healed log -party of trolls with Fell troll in lead. Near entrance
Currently Ive ~400 in lifesteal. That gives me 8.5% total as heal points recovered from damage.
You can see that WM is too weak to keep me alive alone. - I've like 1800 Regen plus 300 from batleborn. Around 45% deflect rate max now.
Damage done during fight in "normal" mode - 70% or melee and 30% of range. Basically range just for putting Rain of arrows and thorn ward.
If you apply 40% of piercing - very very good. But 25 feet damage bonus is very much needed now.
Yesterday I ran VT with the same group three times, starting with Archer, then Combat, then Trapper.
Archer: I think we hit a sweet spot here. Very much dependant on Aimed Shot spamming, so it shines against Valindra and needs a lot of aggro-managing support with Shatterspine (even if I´m using the Owl as active). Without a GF I think it will be far more difficult to manage high DPS. Anyway feedback from the whole party was positive (party was GF, 2CW, DC, HR) and the HR was the Paingiver, while not killing the most enemies (the 2 CW came in first). With sufficient Lifesteal survivability is reasonable (if you get surrounded you can drop Rain of Arrows on your head for healing) as long as you are a Pathfinder and can add Cruel Recover to Lifesteal. I switched to Stormwarden in the middle of the dungeon and found more difficult managing adds.
Aspect of the Lone Wolf works pretty well anyway so I have to say that PvE-wise I like it.
The Archer really works as a long-distance pew-pew DPS so I guess that the target of the Devs was hit in this case.
Combat: more difficult to play in order to bring on reasonable DPS. I tried different set-ups but the only one that seems to work is alternating encounters and Aimed-Strike flurry-powered attacks. Getting out of the encounter-Aimed Strike routine affects DPS quite a lot.
Wild Medicine is quite effective and the Combat HR has some real survivability (even if I have only 1,3k Deflect) as long as Aspect of the Lone Wolf is up. The funny thing is that you start liking DoT effects while with the Archer that lives on spamming Aimed Shot you absolutely hate them. My feeling here is that there´s still some work to do especially on the damage of melee at-wills other than Aimed Strike. I tried all (Clear the Ground, Rapid Strike, ...) and only Aimed Strike makes sense. Unfortunately Aimed Strike forces you to stay in place for some time and feels awkward when you think that the Combat HR should feel like a rabid wolf.
Looking at 4e D&D what I think the melee-side of the HR lacks are serious dailies (where is Blade Cascade?).
The group didn´t like the Combat HR too much.
Trapper: pretty good with Shatterspine and most mobs bunches. Hindering Strike, Constrictive and Rain of Arrows work pretty well together. Damage before the final fight was close to Combat (3-4 % higher actually) and the group liked the Trapper more than Combat for the root effects and the ability to do high sustained damage to some mobs (conjurers in particular than can be rooted and then subjected to Rain of Arrows in full).
The final fight with Valindra showed an underwhelming performance (it was the most difficult fight due to lack of single target DPS and control being useless).
Once again I think that something like Blade Cascade would have been really good. A multi-attack high-damage daily. Something that in PvP could be easily dodged but would work well in PvE and would make all the AP generation feats more interesting.
If we had a reasonable daily it would also make sense to have Thorned Roots generate APs when used against control-immune targets.
At current stage in boss fights an Archer that can spam 40k or more Aimed Shots (current record I have is 135,966 in the Tuern Skirmish and I don´t use Vorpal) will always completely outshine Combat and Trapper and basically boss fights are the difficult parts of all dungeons, so there is little interest in playing a Combat or Trapper in PvE.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
It's now quite impossible i would say to reach 10 stacks (max reached is 6 after several seconds with 47% deflect chance).
the number on the screenshot of the guy over me clearly shows how laughable wild medicine heals are now.
Add CC immunity to fox shift. Reduce max shifts to 5. Decrease stamina regen by 33%. The problem with HRs is that that are too easily destroyed by ranged CC. The problem on the opposing end is they are virtually unkillable by Melee who can't hit them to save their life.
Dead🔪Couple of pages before I showed math about ideal case when WM can get 5 sec of top heal. Now after testing it on live - WM stacks up to 6 cap. Even with corrupted wolfs pack on me - constantly pronning me - 8 corrrupted wolf nailed my like a baby - WM was 1-3 second at 6 cap. So we can thank you all GWF and ayroux especially for whinning about HR and ruining combat HRs. I don't know why is it specific to GWf to whine all the time to nerf other classes - But they do this very good. HRs can feel results in 10 days.
And if you ask me why I had chance to look at WM stack in midle of the batle? Because we don't have any possible CC or any CC or CC braker! with 6-8 wolfs on me - my only hope was Cleric that was focusing my heal on me - 100% percent of heal of really good cleric. Without him - dead meat. I did not have a chance even to use fox cunning! even if I triggered it - guess what? too many prone atacks! im down proned again - stuck in the midle of the pack with my hands tight!
It is not a tank! it is not a damage dealer! Combat HR is some "evil ghost" from under the bed that GWF kids are beeing scared! And with current changes combat HR will be that ghost indeed. Nobody sees cause none will exist since not needed.
So now Id really either see GWF getting in the same state - when you have 5-8 corrupted wolf dominate you with all your 17k GS - as combat HRs now or finally some dev reaction on all of this things we bring into, all the feedback we give in wain. I d really like to see feedback. From Developers who are responcible for this game.
Feedback
- right now we essencially need CC imunity, CC braker for melee HR - fox, maraduers or what ever skill - something!
We need way to survive - with all the GWF whine about WM and useless 2.5% of deflect change. How about you change 2.5 of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> into + 25% of deflection severity? This will not effect WM - it is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> now, you can even get rid it - as GWF whine. But combat HRs need way not to recover from 10% of health to 100% in even 20-40 seconds from WM but to be able to withstand or deflect burst damage! from boss or from GWF
We need increase in damage - Archer HR dominated combat spec like twice at least. Since current piercing and flurry are not so good as expected- more over 15% of nerf of main at-will damage and 10% of C strike nefr - decrease a lot that same base damage that serves for flurry or piercing was too big at the moment. We just - can not deal enought of damage to start ticks.
As a cherry on top of combat HR grave - we don't use archer part - mostly HR in combat focus in melee stand and pick skill that do at least some damage -even how week it is accually is in comparation to archer's thron or rain. I don't assume that we should have same amount of damage in archer stand as archers. But we could benefic from 25 feet damage increase both from combat and archer part.
It's impossible to reach 10 stacks with this 1s ITC (tested with 55% deflect chance).
Now this feat is useless as ****. Good job -_-
Feedback: HR
With no damage, no CC (yea we have a lot of awesome 0.75s CC skills with 16-19s CD), no CC break, no CC immunity... Consider our feedback, now we desperately needs any form of CC break/immunity.
Without this HR will be worst PvP class in mod4.
- class is still quite good, but lost a few ezy-mode buttons (constrict, bugged set)
- CC is adequate - is you get in melee. Boar, Shift will get you out of Icy Rays for example if you are close. Disruptive the only saving grace at range. If you cannot get in melee, you will end up dead for sure.
- DPS is adequate, but there's almost no burst in combat unless you get things to proc.
- very low crit without any true possibility to get it back like we had with Archery Correcting Aim.
- still quite tanky. CWs in Rank 10s died from my Fey Thistle, plaguefire and Careful Attack by spamming abilities on me while I was basically AFKing being permaCCed for seconds. This is NOT fun for either class.
- reflective damage what the hell?!? See above.
- Wilds Medicine never reaches full stacks in PvP. Fix it.
- you removed all the cooldown reductions. REALLY?
Suggestions:
- reduce the reflective damage possibilities, move passive DPS to active, skill DPS.
- maybe reduce tankyness (passive defense) and give HRs a much sought-after CC immune skill such as ITC (active defense), but shorter and balanced (good luck at that). If you get Icy Rayed, all you can do is pray nowadays. Also if the CW is competent you will be CCed like 60% of the fight. Not so fun, again, for both parts, because the CW will probably still end up dead from reflects and it's honestly dumb.
- deflect builds based on reflect are DUMB. Remove this stuff from the game or make it tick for insignificant amounts. People need to lay off crutches in mechanics and land their abilities instead.
Overall opinion: HR is still good, but:
- combat is annoying to play. I want an active, skillful spec like my Archery on Live.
- the amount of skill required to play the class went down, exactly like with my CW.
NOT GOOD.
Are you trying to make the PvP game easy so n00bs won't complain or something?
Will return with more testing.
I M not qualified to say modifie this or this, i do not play HR (may changing if staying like that), BUT here my sug HR as actually too much for other class (and whatever the class is) and i suggest for HR community to not stand like that and start make some comment to adjust that else when it will come from GOD \gentleman crush\ you may receive much more problem for your pve part than you would like to have ad only receive the crush part
1)Piercing Blades - Id rather see this ability damage increased and THEN have it respect DR (for a net zero effect if need be).
2) Wilds Medicine - Its not very good in PVE (compared to PVP) and its TOO strong in PVP (even with 1 sec CD AND HD). For this I really firmly believe that ZERO stacking but just a pure mechanic LIKE:
"Dodging an attack heals you for 8%-10% of your HP over 5-6 seconds (so 4%-5% over 5-6 seconds in pvp)" - This incorporates the dodge mechanic and gives the HR control over when that can proc. Skilled HRs would have near 100% uptime since they would shift everytime the buff drops off. No stacking, no refreshing.
Now the only issue would be against "CWs" who can control the entire fight. This is where I think Combat HRs DO need some form of "ITC". So they have some "CC breaking" or "cc immunity" aside from dodge. I dont think they need control but more CC immunity ability.
I just think trying to keep this broken "crutch" instead of addressing the REAL issue will actually fix and balance HRs and make them more fun to play.
Change it and give us 20-25% deflect severity for combat.
OR Give more damage to trapper part.
OR Give some CC for archer.
It will not fix issues with broken dodge. It will fix core HR problem with requirement to regenerate health crazy fast to stay in fight. It will fix squishiness of class.
It will not fix lack of CC breakers But will give a change to survive beeing CCed.
I d love to see CC immunity for 3-5 sec on Fox cunning hit Or cc breaker on Mara. This is what we have been asking for.
In D&D 3/.5 hunters are not crazy regenerating - they are deflecting damage. Being able to don't take damage as well as CC/root and deal damage is what rangers are in D&D. If someone cares about lore and that small D&D symbol you see when you start game.
Cut down the WM to half of its current value, make it a tier 1 or 2 so that trapper and archer can get it and increase the life steal ability some for combat path so they have to actively fight to gain life.
Remove the change for constricted arrow from the archer path and make snare stick 3-4 sec for the trapper path but let the combat path stay at is is concerning this.
Then up the dam some for the trapper path (archer already has less dam against players) and give both archer and trapper path some anti cc ability (like some suggested marauders could break cc which would server 2 purposes - 1 many would not feet thorns and use marauders instead and 2 it would give both archer and trapper some added survivability).
There are some things that has to change when it comes to the synergy between switching stances in Trapper path but I will write another feedback thread concerning that subject alone.
I wanted to stay away from hard numbers and just get a 'feel' of each path with a few hours of PvE gameplay at level 60.
Archery: unfortunately, this turned out to be the most fun. That has more to do with the other paths not meeting their potential than it did this path being awesome. The damage output is nice and having to manage your aggro felt challenging, but overall there are just a couple powers that will be on everyone's bar because they vastly outperform all the other ones. Kind of vanilla.
Combat: The first changes implemented on preview would have made this path more useful in dungeons, but after the tweaks, it's absolutely not playable. No damage, no control, no utility. I suppose this path was made with the PvPer in mind, which is fine, but it's a hinderance in a party. I would compare it to a 13-14k GS group taking a 9200 GS ranger into CN. It just won't help the party succeed. Again, this feedback is from a PvE point of view.
Trapper: This path is so close to being really amazing. Adding DoT to some of our control powers was a great idea, I think the damage just needs to be upped a bit. Even with the mechanic of damage boosts when switching stances, it still feels a bit underpowered. For fun I put a Tenebrous and G Bilethorn on to watch the cascade of numbers. That was the most enjoyable time with this path.
I apologize for not having solid ideas of HOW to make the paths better, but I figured I'd leave that to the pros. I'm sure you guys have tons of data not available to the player base that helps make your decisions.
Cheers
EDIT for a question. Do the dailies respect the stance you're in, or the stance they represent? For instance, I'm in melee stance and I load up my damage bonuses for ranged powers. I let fly a seismic shot. Does the damage increase because that's a 'ranged' power, or does it do nothing because I'm still in melee stance? OR - does it add a stack of serpent because I did damage in melee stance?
Heather - Ranger
James - Paladin
Jet - Warlock
Royal - Cleric
Gray - Rogue
Red - Wizard
Ios - Barbarian
Trapper? They actually get CONTROL, at the COST of survivability and damage - and even THEN, they get a few FAT DoTs. Their CONTROL is their survivability.
Archer? They get pure DAMAGE, at the COST of survivability and control. They are supposed to hit hard, from afar.
What the CLASS MURDERERS from the PvP community, including those calling themselves RANGERS are now trying to pull off?
First claim 'Medicine not needed'. Then get it nerfed over and over and over and over and over again.
And 'Medicine nerfed, then put in as T2'? So what, you want the vastly SUPERIOR Damage or Control of Archer/Trapper, at no cost?
Fine. Better ditch that Ranged Damage bonus fron 'Unflinching Aim' then. You now have one of the core features from Combat available, so why need Damage. Or what about Ancient Roots? Why not put that as T2 then, too, since the Trapper also gets Medicine then?
If Medicine is removed, they BETTER add at least 25% Deflection Severity and COMBAT EXCLUSIVE Control Breaks/Immunities. Because otherwise, why even bring it in PvP? If it is only playable with 2x 407 Regen Rings, Legendary Waters, Legendary Ravenskull, Illusionary Regeneration and PvP Gear, aka STACKED WITH HP, that is a sign of a feat line being BROKEN.
Also, Medicine removed/turned to T2? Then better give back the 10% Crit Chance while in Melee, and boost either the Capstone or the Piercing Damage even more.
Better Solution: Nerf the HELL out of the REGENERATION Stat. For Medicine, one actually needs to put oneself into Danger. This is SIGNIFICANTLY more 'skillful' gameplay than 'run away until regenerated enough. Put an axe to ALL 407 Regen Rings, done. Halved Regen per Ring, give Lifesteal or some other defensive, appropriate for the class stat instead, they are PvE gear, not PvP Gear.
Any further Nerfs to Medicine MUST be accompanied by nerfs to the other 2 lines. And if it gets turned into a T2 Feat, the two paths have to get SIGNIFICANT reductions in performance, since they will get the best of 2 worlds in that case.
Even better Idea: Break PvP once and for good, get the vocal minority that only lives in their '3-node-roundabout' to LEAVE (given the fact that quite a few 'Elite' PvP groups have gotten caught as exploiters in the past, their accomplishments are in doubt anyway), and get back to the CORE of DnD - and instead of catering to the PvP community, who wants either a 'roflstomp victim' class (Because of 'Meta' Garbage), maybe invest the development manpower into hmm, some kind of Randomizer for Group Content, for example?
So that not every run in a Dungeon is the same, NPC Enemies actively seeking to counter the current group composition, and, as it has been proven to work in another Cryptic Game, actually work together?
Give us a CC-break on Marauder's Escape/Rush. Do whatever you want with wild's medicine.
Many HRs have been asking for a CC-break and nobody has voiced a concern against it.
Wild's Medicine is frustrating to play against, and now it's frustrating to have because it doesn't even do that much for all the complaints it gets. But currently we need it since we don't have a CC-break.
Melee HR remains the only melee-oriented class without a CC-break or immunity ability.
Remove Medicine
Move T4 Feat 'Bloodlust' to T3, double its effect to 30%, switching out of Melee Stance instantly removes all stacks.
Add new T4 Feat: Leaf in the Wind: Gain 5/10/15/20/25% More Deflect Severity when in Melee Stance
Add Effect to T5 Feat: Your Fox Shift can now be used while being controlled. Using Fox Shift removes all control effects and makes you immune while it lasts. This does not apply to Fox's Cunning.
Tell Archers and Trappers to go choke on a bagel.
To be fair i would rather run archery and GG