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(Ant-Monster) Guardian Fighter Review

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  • lvl99looterlvl99looter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kolevra wrote: »
    GFs do this to my GWF all the time, and I to them....all the time. This happens to me with just about every class that has an interupt or prone. It's because the enemy was faster to the draw than you were...

    I'm all for supporting GFs getting a boost, but it gets harder and harder to care when "suggestions" turn into whining that sounds like an ugly older sister who is jealous of her pretty younger sister.

    Haha ugly older sister xD! People on the forums be funny lol.
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    "GFs do this to my GWF all the time"

    No.it is not true.i have interrupted mainly TRs with Bull Charge,CWs, other Gfs.
    GWFs?NEVER.

    No encounter of GWF can be iterrupted.
  • havvkyhavvky Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    "GFs do this to my GWF all the time"

    No.it is not true.i have interrupted mainly TRs with Bull Charge,CWs, other Gfs.
    GWFs?NEVER.

    No encounter of GWF can be iterrupted.

    Probably meant interrupted before he pressed the encounter lol. We mean interrupted during the animation of our encounter.
  • dissssppppdisssspppp Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    morsitans wrote: »
    Yeah, 7000 power from conq padding....and a weapon with a base damage in the 600 range.

    Compared to people with 7000 power just from stacking radiants, armour/weapon sets and jewelry, and weapons with base damage in the 800-1000 range.

    Conq power boosts should help GFs get marginally closer to the deeps output of some of the others, but you're always going to come up against the lower base damage of GF weapons, so 7k power for a GF is barely competitive with 3k power for a CW.

    Everyone knows that you subtract about 25% from the GS of any conq GF, because powerpadding doesn't actually increase output that significantly. Fixing the GS display would just save you the bother of doing this.

    And that's the problem. A GF stacked with 4000 more points in offensive stats still does substantially less damage than other classes.
  • lvl99looterlvl99looter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    havvky wrote: »
    Probably meant interrupted before he pressed the encounter lol. We mean interrupted during the animation of our encounter.

    There ya'go. There's been many times where GWF's would override my attacks. I'll show visual proof once I release my new GF PvP Montage.
  • lvl99looterlvl99looter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Came back to bump.
  • kolevrakolevra Member Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    There ya'go. There's been many times where GWF's would override my attacks. I'll show visual proof once I release my new GF PvP Montage.

    There's been many times where GFs have interrupted my attacks, too. I lay down a Frontline, my character throws out his shield, I hear the sound-effect from hitting an opponent and nothing happens because the GF was faster. GFs have also interrupted my Unstoppable even after it was activated and my character began to grow and turn red only to find out that it didn't activate at all. Happens with every class. Enemy was faster than you to the draw.
    --- Ranked matches need to be solo-queue only
    Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
  • lvl99looterlvl99looter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kolevra wrote: »
    There's been many times where GFs have interrupted my attacks, too. I lay down a Frontline, my character throws out his shield, I hear the sound-effect from hitting an opponent and nothing happens because the GF was faster. GFs have also interrupted my Unstoppable even after it was activated and my character began to grow and turn red only to find out that it didn't activate at all. Happens with every class. Enemy was faster than you to the draw.

    Hmm... Do you think it's latency?
  • pherrowpherrow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 421 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Hmm... Do you think it's latency?


    I believe it may be latency, not sure of course. While having some extended 1v1's with other GWFs there would be some that would continually beat me to the punch. Now, there will be some GWF that are simply better, no doubt, but I would test this by hitting my encounters earlier than I should and they would still get me. This meaning that they would have to have hit there encounter(everything being equal) so early it wouldn't have made sense. Since the GWFs I'm referring to were properly built and played, I have no reason to believe they would be that reckless. I think those instances were latency as at work. Just personal opinion, YMMV.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Alot of the GF issues are that block - the main class mechanic is just horrible unwhelming compared to other classes...

    Shoot, give me "blink" and a 4th ability like a CW over crappy "block" and "mark"

    Ill take unstoppable and sprint over that as well...

    Now that you mention it, Ill take stealth and roll either!
  • proneificationproneification Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 494 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2014
    May I know who the other 6 GF Masters are?

    Thanks.
  • kolevrakolevra Member Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Hmm... Do you think it's latency?

    No, I believe it is a matter of one player being beat to the draw by a faster enemy. I think encounters all have different cast times and starting an animation for an encounter does not guarantee landing that encounter. If someone throws a faster cast-time encounter at you while you are mid-animation of an encounter with a longer cast time, you can expect it to be cancelled in favor of the person who was faster.

    Yesterday I was playing on my CW, I drop an Ice Knife on a GF, massive ice dagger comes dropping from the sky and hits him right on the head : Ice Knife animation complete. The result was my wizard on his back, with full AP, like the cast didn't happen at all. The GF triggered his attack before my Ice Knife could be landed and thus I was beat to the draw. I should have dodged but I didn't.

    This issue has nothing to do with GWF having some kind of imagined ability that you think lets them just cancel anyone's encounter just because they are GWF.
    --- Ranked matches need to be solo-queue only
    Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
  • kolevrakolevra Member Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    May I know who the other 6 GF Masters are?

    Thanks.

    I am also a bit curious. I've played with a lot of good GFs and just want to see if some of the players who really caught my attention are also part of this club.
    --- Ranked matches need to be solo-queue only
    Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
  • skalt112skalt112 Member Posts: 1,089 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I spend my days fishing in neverwinter woods. I am a Gf Master Baiter.
  • lvl99looterlvl99looter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kolevra wrote: »
    I am also a bit curious. I've played with a lot of good GFs and just want to see if some of the players who really caught my attention are also part of this club.

    Face, Stramala, Scar, Leeluu, Almighty, Command0r. I actually met a few more within the past week. There's like 13 now. But saying 1 of 13 doesn't sound <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> anymore haha xD! So I'm actually about to change my thingy.
  • snappa0126snappa0126 Member Posts: 90
    edited April 2014
    Face, Stramala, Scar, Leeluu, Almighty, Command0r. I actually met a few more within the past week. There's like 13 now. But saying 1 of 13 doesn't sound <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> anymore haha xD! So I'm actually about to change my thingy.


    I have not seen any of those names on the battlefield... The GF's I encounter and respect are Facetank, Hzarn, Dom, and a few others.

    R/
    <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
    HAMSTER, level 60 GF, "Bloodthirsty" since Mod 2
    Anarchist, level 60 CW
    Arsenic,
    level 60 TR
    Pluck Yew, level 60 HR
    Therapissed,
    level 60 DC
  • havvkyhavvky Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I heard Echidna was someone who experimented with all of the GF builds and knew the ins and outs of it but it may just be hearsay.
  • lvl99looterlvl99looter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    (Update)

    Added a new entry to the Side Notes.
  • skalt112skalt112 Member Posts: 1,089 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I just read ther whole thing... l lol'ed at the ying/yang part

    "everything had a ying yang" hahahahahahahaha.
  • lvl99looterlvl99looter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    skalt112 wrote: »
    I just read ther whole thing... l lol'ed at the ying/yang part

    "everything had a ying yang" hahahahahahahaha.

    So do you agree or disagree xD?
  • skalt112skalt112 Member Posts: 1,089 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    So do you agree or disagree xD?

    It's yin/yang

    Ying yang is an old slang term for your johnson :p
  • lvl99looterlvl99looter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    skalt112 wrote: »
    It's yin/yang

    Ying yang is an old slang term for your johnson :p

    OOOHHH Hahaha I get it now xD!! It's a funny typo.
  • skalt112skalt112 Member Posts: 1,089 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    OOOHHH Hahaha I get it now xD!! It's a funny typo.

    As to your post. Very good.
  • lvl99looterlvl99looter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    skalt112 wrote: »
    As to your post. Very good.

    Thank you sir, hopefully Cryptic actually uses these suggestions -.-..................
  • wildfire5wildfire5 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    disssspppp wrote: »
    You made a good post overall, but I hope after re-reading it you realize how ridiculous what you said right here is. You think changing the displayed gear score actually removes those thousands of points of power? Whether my GS displays 19k or 15.5k, I still have over 7,000 points of power. Stones not showing up in your gear score doesn't change the fact that you are still receiving an additional 2500+ points from the stone.

    ... It's not ridiculous. Those extra power points are technically given to your because of your ability tree. Your gear score is supposed to be a reflection of your gear, not your overall combat prowess. They should not count towards your gear score because your gear is not actually better because of it.

    It's a bit hard to understand because it's a gear-dependent ability. But your gear score isn't supposed to be a reflection of how strong you are. It's supposed to be a reflection of your gear and your gear only. Assuming you and your buddies are all level 60 with well-built characters, and similar experience, you would think that would be the same thing. And normally it is, but not in the case of GFs with CQ (and Armor Specialization to a lesser extent), and you'll see why in a second.

    Reckless Attacker's boost comes from spending points on the Conqueror tree, and is ultimately dependent on your guard meter. If your guard meter drops to 0, the boost is gone. It's not a permanent boost, unlike your gear score.

    Let me explain it another way. Take a GF with Reckless Attacker and a wizard with Chaos Magic. Chaos Magic does not improve your gear score, but Reckless Attacker does. So if these two classes are given comparable gear and have an equal amount of experience, the Guardian Fighter will receive a higher gear score even though their gear is THE SAME.

    Now do you see the problem? Everyone thinks GS is a measure of combat prowess, so if they see that the GF has an insane gear score and yet doesn't perform any better than the "weaker" CW, people will think the GF sucks. The GF himself will think he/she sucks. It's not fair, because the GF is struggling to compare him/herself to players who have similar gear scores, players who are technically FAR MORE POWERFUL than them.

    What gear score is truly a measure of is the amount of effort you've put into obtaining gear. It doesn't make any sense for you to have a higher gear score than someone else when you two put in the same amount of effort and have the same enchantments and tier level. People will look at you and your 16k gear score and think you're supposed to be as powerful as a 16k gear score mage, someone who's probably worked several times as hard as you to get that precious number. You shouldn't feel guilty about not being able to compete with them, because you've played the game for a month and they've probably been around since last year.

    TL;DR, Reckless Attack's boost technically comes from your ability points, not your gear, and is not a fixed bonus, so it isn't fair to include it in your gear score because it makes you compete against players who are actually far more powerful and experienced.

    This is a huge factor in why GFs feel underpowered. Removing the GS boost will actually do GFs a massive favor in the coming of module 3.
  • aethanasaethanas Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Some time back, as Tenes did not have any internal cooldown, the GF already had some kind of strong reflect because these stones work with Guarded Assault (maybe work with Briartwine enchantment too); I saw Wizards killing themselves attacking me while blocking. That was the only time where GA and blocking were somewhat meaningful.

    And now? Funnily the Hunter Ranger got some kind of this reflection with their Meditation daily (100% deflect chance / 100% control immunity) and the boon They Thistle (400 dmg against the attacker for deflected attacks).

    I am disappointed about Cryptic's support for the GF as other classes are much better able to put pressure on the GF and to force her onto the defensive.
  • joocycuzzzzzzjoocycuzzzzzz Member Posts: 577 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    OP you seem to use "Brah" a lot. You aware? You even lift?

    Didn't watch/read OP but I've seen your High-General video and some other PVP video. What I liked about your attitude is that you want to give all the classes a chance, which is honorable.

    My main is a control wizard. I get groups with a blink of an eye. But whenever I get on my ranger/GF alts. I'll say that I'm looking for a group 15 times in a row, no invite. Back then people weren't such elitists, it was all about the fun, "Rainbow" parties were everywhere.

    Now we just stack CW's and GWF's and let the other classes "Warm the Bench"

    PS: Your voice and typing style don't correlate whatsoever lol. Thought you would sound squeaky as **** since you use a lot of emotions (xD -.- etc etc). I always have this impression of those people who use a lot of emotes, so it surprised me lmao. It's not a bad thing don't worry.
    Beta player

    One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
  • pa1nk1ller1989pa1nk1ller1989 Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    i signed in the forums for the pure purpose of expressing my dissatisfaction regarding the GF issue.apart from everything else they should increase the defense cap or give us easier access to deflection
  • lvl99looterlvl99looter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    PS: Your voice and typing style don't correlate whatsoever lol. Thought you would sound squeaky as **** since you use a lot of emotions (xD -.- etc etc). I always have this impression of those people who use a lot of emotes, so it surprised me lmao. It's not a bad thing don't worry.

    Don't be shy, all you gotta do is say "your voice is sexy." HAHAHAHA!!!

    But for the most part, YES. I want all classes to have a chance, and strongly believe there should be a Yin and Yang for all the classes. If you would have read/listen to my OP, you would see I mention some very valid points about tenacity and stuff. But I'm not gonna explain it here, since I already did in my OP.

    You might as well listen to the audio version and get it over with lol.
  • lvl99looterlvl99looter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    i signed in the forums for the pure purpose of expressing my dissatisfaction regarding the GF issue.apart from everything else they should increase the defense cap or give us easier access to deflection

    =O!!! I like that idea, more deflection... I'ma put that in the OP.
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