I'd like to see it do the exact damage, ignoring resistances, however that's just me being biased in favor of more damage for the GWF... lol
PvP wise it's technically still a good one to get to counter HR's aimed shot or to stop people from mounting up. I hate it when fighting a GWF who just keeps putting the DOT on me but it's not the damage that I ever notice just the fact it stops me from using aimed shot when I would usually get the chance to.
PvP wise it's technically still a good one to get to counter HR's aimed shot or to stop people from mounting up. I hate it when fighting a GWF who just keeps putting the DOT on me but it's not the damage that I ever notice just the fact it stops me from using aimed shot when I would usually get the chance to.
Yeah which is why most people will now only put 1 point in it... Making it worthless...
I agree with the above, if it ignored all DR then yes it could be good...
Id rather like to see the Insta tree get buffed...
Guys, I have read the whole thread and want to step in and point something out. We are actively thinking about CWs and what to do with them right now (although I cannot give a timeline on anything relating to that right now). Balance is a really delicate situation and not one we make drastic changes to lightly. This was a case where if we did nothing every single GWF would have lost a substantial portion of their performance with no buffs to compensate. That said, this is why we put things like this on the preview shard. We want you guys to test it and get a feel for the intent and direction the class is moving so you can help shape it.
To be perfectly frank, the CW is very much out of line right now. They provide too much damage and their AoEs don't really conform to the same damage rules as they ideally should. But we have looked at various reasons as to why they cause problems and some of that lies in their feats, some in their base ratios, some in target caps, and that is really quite a few dials to tune all at once. We are looking at where they belong and what role they need to fit into in combat, as well as ways to preserve some roles that players enjoy without making them the best option at all times.
With all that in mind, please look at GWF performance alongside TR and HR as those are much closer to the performance values we would like to see. And we are aware of the struggle of Sentinels trying to hold threat and still be survivable. We want to examine tanking but we don't know when we will have something ready for that because it is a very difficult and complex set of changes to make Tanking feel gratifying without disabling game play for other players.
All aboard the nerf nerf train.
look if you dev's feel every class does 2 much damage maybe you should run a fue epic dungeons with the minimum gear score. but only after you finish all your nerfs I can see it know.
the GF unable to stay on his feet because he had to sacrifice to must survivability for dps just to hold agro.
the GWF who sacrificed any survivability for still lower dps that a single troll lt can regen in 3 seconds.
the CW who's aoe dmg cant sufficiently kill or control mobs anymore and the tank and gwf die because he couldn't help kill the endless supply of constantly responding mobs.
The poor DC who has too powerful HOT's cant heal hes too busy kitting as hes the new tank class now.
rogues will get there serving of nerf pie soon 2 and all because the poor devs have to appease every whiny pvp players whims.
you pvp nerfs will kill pve guys just stop. I ssume you do your research you have an entire pve community screaming because you cater to pvp its the smallest part of this game its 2 maps and one war zone map... your killing yourselves one nerf at a time.
i have run dungeons with full blue gear, or full blue with 15k ad weapons. on tr its 12k gearscore, didnt have any problems, dungeon difficulty is pathetic, bad players SHOULDN'T be able to finish every dungeon in game, there should be hard dungeons that require skill
cn can be done with 3cw, epic spell has been done with 1 cw + forgot the other class, without adds ANY boss can be soloed by about any class(xcept for valinda/fulm because of the mechanic that makes it impossible to solo, not boss strength)
sorcerer78Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited May 2014
Can anyone clarify the following thing for me pls:
"Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Destroyers Purpose: Destroyer's Purpose now correctly operates in its own damage layer rather than in the Critical Severity damage layer."
I believe that before this bonus, despite being added at the base of damages was not calculated by the critic. it amounted to the final result, as if the base damage of his power had not received any bonus.
well, now apparently works. The annoying thing is that the minimum and maximum damage can be a huge difference when you get all these bonus. but ok.
ps: I think the bf is now being taken into account as well. at least my ibs just passed the 50k with this bonus.
Yeah watch those geared GWF that crit IBS for easy 20K on you.
Honestly I like the idea of the change to GWF, but the dmg buff seems a bit over the board when combine with stone and other stuff.
The even bigger issue is that GF again gonna be outshined by GWF... despite GF brings more utility to the team but who wants utility when you can play a fighter who just kill everything...
Agreed!
There will be a lots of one-hitted ppl in pvp in mod3 by IBS in unstopable...
no it wont atm in live i can hit 12-14+3.7k per sec next 5 sec in pvp on low def ppl and for this i do not need to lose 2/3 of hp on my 22k dps gwf
after mod 3 i will need to deal 10-15 hits while unstoppable to deal this damage in pvp dps gwf wont be alive enough time to chain 3x full unstoppable like it can in pve and stay alive to get 10-15 stacks of damage buff from unstoppable chains
no it wont atm in live i can hit 12-14+3.7k per sec next 5 sec in pvp on low def ppl and for this i do not need to lose 2/3 of hp on my 22k dps gwf
after mod 3 i will need to deal 10-15 hits while unstoppable to deal this damage in pvp dps gwf wont be alive enough time to chain 3x full unstoppable like it can in pve and stay alive to get 10-15 stacks of damage buff from unstoppable chains
note:
iam not pvp player, but lets go. the focused destroyer bonus>destroyer porpose bonus. at least until the penultimate update.
so half of our bonus depends on the 25% chance of accumulating 1/2/3 stacks ( single) and another to hit a sequence of atwills + bleed being unstoppable (fast way) .
and quickly become unstoppable , or need to do enough damage ( and damage need to be with active both bonus ) or use encounter that builds determination per target ( good luck ) or must receive damage ( and defensively destroyer was never all that ) .
then , not excluding destroyer that eventually one will hit someone strong like a train , but a battlefield " single" where it is possible to remove the enemy fighting for at least 3 sec , these bonus damage are contradictory .
are not part of the same " chain " . Finally , careful to make the destroyer not harm pvp border to the point that even affect pve in some situations ( fulminarox is a good example ) .
What can possibly happen if the executioner style back to work or are working and that I 'm a little crazy , and you receive a huge damage and assume that is the standard ibs .
no it wont atm in live i can hit 12-14+3.7k per sec next 5 sec in pvp on low def ppl and for this i do not need to lose 2/3 of hp on my 22k dps gwf
after mod 3 i will need to deal 10-15 hits while unstoppable to deal this damage in pvp dps gwf wont be alive enough time to chain 3x full unstoppable like it can in pve and stay alive to get 10-15 stacks of damage buff from unstoppable chains
First of all you are pvping with a 22k hp gwf, you are weaker than a Cw that has 34k hp, or really any other toon that is built for pvp. Second of all, you don't understand how to build focused destroyer stacks. once again, you're about to get a rude awakening once you see the new BiS Gwf build.
A class built for pvp. Makes me laugh every time someone says that. NW is the worst mmo for pvp, but anyways not to get off track.
IBS and even Takedown can hit like a truck but the gwf dps is contingent now instead of passive. Currently with gash and sots you just pound something until its dead gaining all the benefits.
In mod3 your damage becomes contingent mostly on unstoppable. In pvp everyone is going to scatter as soon as you go unstoppable. Maybe you stun them and knock em down but you wont even get to ten stacks before they bail.
While you are not in unstoppable your going to get stomped. Everyone is excited because they see big crits on practice dummies. You are never going to get to 20 stacks in pvp. GWF survivablity as a destroyer is down significantly and there is a windup time to do the same damage you used to do.
First of all you are pvping with a 22k hp gwf, you are weaker than a Cw that has 34k hp, or really any other toon that is built for pvp. Second of all, you don't understand how to build focused destroyer stacks. once again, you're about to get a rude awakening once you see the new BiS Gwf build.
changed something in this direction? accumulate bonus against a single opponent always been tricky.
theoretically speaking, the ******* will have to receive uninterrupted, 3 combos sure strike ... now without cancellation.
Your cw can not avoid destroyer for 3 seconds? or think that a destroyer is so tough as sentinel that is unstoppable without even lose enough hp?
different to destroyer porpose, bleed or slam not help accumulate the bonus ... and you just get lost counted for 3 seconds to lose the stacks.
but the point is: this is not an "additional problem". this is an complementary bonus. you need both, "focused and porpose" to do high damage (and as well stressed lococatt91, both are contingent).
Now, this "super players" able to eventually do a good job in pvp (few, few peoples). but what? You want to do the destroyer 100% harmless dying with a breath without any chance of victory??
ps:let me correct:
the bonus given by focused destroyer is smaller than that given by destroyer porpose BUT, the bonus "standard" + feet> destroyer porpose. besides the fact that the destroyer porpose is more stable and work with avalanch.
on the two bonus together: there is a BIG difference between the minimum damage and maximum damage, which is possibly a problem with critics.
the higher the base damage (ibs, coff, coff) the less chance of you hitting like a train ... which is really weird.
About executioner style ... now I emerged a question auditioning here in dv (not epic). the feet "kicks in" when the enemy is dying or when he lost certain amount of hp, being active against enemies who actually have much hp?
if the second case, wow, what amazing feet! functionally and aesthetically.
About executioner style ... now I emerged a question auditioning here in dv (not epic). the feet "kicks in" when the enemy is dying or when he lost certain amount of hp, being active against enemies who actually have much hp?
if the second case, wow, what amazing feet! functionally and aesthetically.
From my testing, it seems to start applying bonus damage when the enemy drops below around 33% HP. It then slowly adds 1-30% damage based on health remaining, 30% when the enemy is dead (so the most you'll really see is 29% on bosses, maybe 20% against mobs)
From my testing, it seems to start applying bonus damage when the enemy drops below around 33% HP. It then slowly adds 1-30% damage based on health remaining, 30% when the enemy is dead (so the most you'll really see is 29% on bosses, maybe 20% against mobs)
ah, makes sense. I got this impression because only against tougher enemies is that the bonus became visible (playing in sharandar, etc. I do not see him).
anyway, I saw a ">50k" against the last boss dv when he was 6% hp. as I do not have 5/5 of the executioner style, I assume that is the maximum. was corresponding to battle fury.
well, it's suggestion for an upcoming module. one bonus based on how much hp / defensive pattern of the opponent. would be harmless in pvp against "not fighters."
First of all you are pvping with a 22k hp gwf, you are weaker than a Cw that has 34k hp, or really any other toon that is built for pvp. Second of all, you don't understand how to build focused destroyer stacks. once again, you're about to get a rude awakening once you see the new BiS Gwf build.
u are the one for rude awakening with mod 3 gwf wont be even half as good as it used to be and it will become useless as it used to be before deep gash only now even worse since we lost sos
damage is only some 10-20% weaker on destroyer then our on live with deep gash in pve but in pvp it is a lot less destroyer or focused destroyer just dont work for pvp not even half good as deep gash and sos
i just wish u did not killed gwf like this ;/ i hoped u will roll back sos nerf at least till u fix cw noone will take gwf in team when it cant out dps cw and ty to sos kill we wont bring utilly to i cant see any way for new destroyer gwf to can out dps spellstorm cw after all cw will become 20-30% stronger on dps with mod 3 and new destroyer gwf 10-15% is weaker then current deep gash instigator or destroyer gwf and even now on live servers good spellstorm cw can easy out dps gwf by far when mod 3 comes gwf will be totaly useless when u compare it to cw
You guys think GWFs got nerfed? You're in for a rude awakening in mod 3....
ah.......... but it depends on your gameplay .
The iv tends to fall (I think ) . first :
A - you will not have a " fs " doing random enemies bleed while you focus on other ( vs draco you see it , even accidentally ) .
B - probably many iv will change "not so fast" by " roar" , which will hurt trample ( unless you use the set of sharandar , as suggested kozi ) .
The sm " semi single focused " have improved ; yes, my critics are potentially lower than they were considering the total bleed ( ibs fall in +15 k ) . But more so I will not run the risk of void a bleed , as I will now have a roar / takedown faster and more interesting damage .
in general
Out " non-critical " damage have doubled and the fact the bonus be more consistent with a view that I do not need to take critical for debuff . not to mention the restoring strike healing... see and have a pleasant surprise.
But the point is , a median build improved quality. But will not compete with a thau that has a good notion of their own rotations ... which does not care anymore considering that the class will continue doing old content very well , and now " officially " .
hahahaha destroyer feature in pvp? you guys actually run that as a destroyer? come on now. With the 50% cooldown on roar and takedown, and Destroyer capstone, deep gash is no longer needed. SM destroyer is even better now than premod 3 because of steel blitz and wms. IV is still very good in pvp and pve but they need a certain build to be optimally effective. The days of GWFs topping paingiver over equally geared cws may be over, but they are still the second best pve character and IMO the best Hybrid class for both pvp and pve. You'll see a lot more 40k hp, 2k def and deflect and 1.5k regen destroyers soon enough i guarantee it. I'm not going to tell you how to build them though, use your brain and think outside the "vorpal is best enchant" mindset that seems to plague the neverwinter community.
Also, why are we comparing gwfs to cws anyways? They're going to get nerfed as well, most likely even harder than the gwf did. I don't hear any complaints about gwfs now being underpowered vs HRs, TRs etc who are the real comparables as they are suppose to be equals in pvp and pve. It seems that GWF players on here want their OP class back instead of a "balanced" game.
hahahaha destroyer feature in pvp? you guys actually run that as a destroyer? come on now. With the 50% cooldown on roar and takedown, and Destroyer capstone, deep gash is no longer needed. SM destroyer is even better now than premod 3 because of steel blitz and wms. IV is still very good in pvp and pve but they need a certain build to be optimally effective. The days of GWFs topping paingiver over equally geared cws may be over, but they are still the second best pve character and IMO the best Hybrid class for both pvp and pve. You'll see a lot more 40k hp, 2k def and deflect and 1.5k regen destroyers soon enough i guarantee it. I'm not going to tell you how to build them though, use your brain and think outside the "vorpal is best enchant" mindset that seems to plague the neverwinter community.
Also, why are we comparing gwfs to cws anyways? They're going to get nerfed as well, most likely even harder than the gwf did. I don't hear any complaints about gwfs now being underpowered vs HRs, TRs etc who are the real comparables as they are suppose to be equals in pvp and pve. It seems that GWF players on here want their OP class back instead of a "balanced" game.
we compare gwf to cw because cw is aoe class as we are but cw used to have superior dps,controll,utily to gwf even before mod 3 but now gwf will worse then cw in everything by far and lost all its utily it had
hr,tr are dps classes not aoe dps as gwf so no reason to compare it it to gwf
as for nerf of cw this just wont happen ever they are broken since cb and they done nothing all they done since then is is nerfed tr,gf and gwf to useless lvls and they were a lot worse then cw for team before devs just plays cw or listen to them only ;/
we compare gwf to cw because cw is aoe class as we are but cw used to have superior dps,controll,utily to gwf even before mod 3 but now gwf will worse then cw in everything by far and lost all its utily it had
hr,tr are dps classes not aoe dps as gwf so no reason to compare it it to gwf
as for nerf of cw this just wont happen ever they are broken since cb and they done nothing all they done since then is is nerfed tr,gf and gwf to useless lvls and they were a lot worse then cw for team before devs just plays cw or listen to them only ;/
There have been nerfs to ap gen, and there will be nerfs to come.
You'll see a lot more 40k hp, 2k def and deflect and 1.5k regen destroyers soon enough i guarantee it. I'm not going to tell you how to build them though, use your brain and think outside the "vorpal is best enchant" mindset that seems to plague the neverwinter community.
Also, why are we comparing gwfs to cws anyways? They're going to get nerfed as well, most likely even harder than the gwf did. I don't hear any complaints about gwfs now being underpowered vs HRs, TRs etc who are the real comparables as they are suppose to be equals in pvp and pve. It seems that GWF players on here want their OP class back instead of a "balanced" game.
Destroyer has received some buffs to damage aside from the deep gash nerf. But none make it a better spec than Sentinel/IV for PVP. The main differences with pre-mod3 destro and post, is the capstone buff and cooldown buffs. But the capstone buff will be of little importance in PvP because it doesn't provide any upfront increased damage, heck, you need to do 20 separate attacks to get the full effect. Except against opponents facetanking a GWF, meaning some GF and other GWFs.
Comments
PvP wise it's technically still a good one to get to counter HR's aimed shot or to stop people from mounting up. I hate it when fighting a GWF who just keeps putting the DOT on me but it's not the damage that I ever notice just the fact it stops me from using aimed shot when I would usually get the chance to.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's
Yeah which is why most people will now only put 1 point in it... Making it worthless...
I agree with the above, if it ignored all DR then yes it could be good...
Id rather like to see the Insta tree get buffed...
cn can be done with 3cw, epic spell has been done with 1 cw + forgot the other class, without adds ANY boss can be soloed by about any class(xcept for valinda/fulm because of the mechanic that makes it impossible to solo, not boss strength)
"Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Destroyers Purpose: Destroyer's Purpose now correctly operates in its own damage layer rather than in the Critical Severity damage layer."
What does this mean exactly?
well, now apparently works. The annoying thing is that the minimum and maximum damage can be a huge difference when you get all these bonus. but ok.
ps: I think the bf is now being taken into account as well. at least my ibs just passed the 50k with this bonus.
Honestly I like the idea of the change to GWF, but the dmg buff seems a bit over the board when combine with stone and other stuff.
The even bigger issue is that GF again gonna be outshined by GWF... despite GF brings more utility to the team but who wants utility when you can play a fighter who just kill everything...
Agreed!
There will be a lots of one-hitted ppl in pvp in mod3 by IBS in unstopable...
no it wont atm in live i can hit 12-14+3.7k per sec next 5 sec in pvp on low def ppl and for this i do not need to lose 2/3 of hp on my 22k dps gwf
after mod 3 i will need to deal 10-15 hits while unstoppable to deal this damage in pvp dps gwf wont be alive enough time to chain 3x full unstoppable like it can in pve and stay alive to get 10-15 stacks of damage buff from unstoppable chains
note:
iam not pvp player, but lets go. the focused destroyer bonus>destroyer porpose bonus. at least until the penultimate update.
so half of our bonus depends on the 25% chance of accumulating 1/2/3 stacks ( single) and another to hit a sequence of atwills + bleed being unstoppable (fast way) .
and quickly become unstoppable , or need to do enough damage ( and damage need to be with active both bonus ) or use encounter that builds determination per target ( good luck ) or must receive damage ( and defensively destroyer was never all that ) .
then , not excluding destroyer that eventually one will hit someone strong like a train , but a battlefield " single" where it is possible to remove the enemy fighting for at least 3 sec , these bonus damage are contradictory .
are not part of the same " chain " . Finally , careful to make the destroyer not harm pvp border to the point that even affect pve in some situations ( fulminarox is a good example ) .
What can possibly happen if the executioner style back to work or are working and that I 'm a little crazy , and you receive a huge damage and assume that is the standard ibs .
First of all you are pvping with a 22k hp gwf, you are weaker than a Cw that has 34k hp, or really any other toon that is built for pvp. Second of all, you don't understand how to build focused destroyer stacks. once again, you're about to get a rude awakening once you see the new BiS Gwf build.
IBS and even Takedown can hit like a truck but the gwf dps is contingent now instead of passive. Currently with gash and sots you just pound something until its dead gaining all the benefits.
In mod3 your damage becomes contingent mostly on unstoppable. In pvp everyone is going to scatter as soon as you go unstoppable. Maybe you stun them and knock em down but you wont even get to ten stacks before they bail.
While you are not in unstoppable your going to get stomped. Everyone is excited because they see big crits on practice dummies. You are never going to get to 20 stacks in pvp. GWF survivablity as a destroyer is down significantly and there is a windup time to do the same damage you used to do.
We will see in a couple days.
changed something in this direction? accumulate bonus against a single opponent always been tricky.
theoretically speaking, the ******* will have to receive uninterrupted, 3 combos sure strike ... now without cancellation.
Your cw can not avoid destroyer for 3 seconds? or think that a destroyer is so tough as sentinel that is unstoppable without even lose enough hp?
different to destroyer porpose, bleed or slam not help accumulate the bonus ... and you just get lost counted for 3 seconds to lose the stacks.
but the point is: this is not an "additional problem". this is an complementary bonus. you need both, "focused and porpose" to do high damage (and as well stressed lococatt91, both are contingent).
Now, this "super players" able to eventually do a good job in pvp (few, few peoples). but what? You want to do the destroyer 100% harmless dying with a breath without any chance of victory??
ps:let me correct:
the bonus given by focused destroyer is smaller than that given by destroyer porpose BUT, the bonus "standard" + feet> destroyer porpose. besides the fact that the destroyer porpose is more stable and work with avalanch.
on the two bonus together: there is a BIG difference between the minimum damage and maximum damage, which is possibly a problem with critics.
the higher the base damage (ibs, coff, coff) the less chance of you hitting like a train ... which is really weird.
if the second case, wow, what amazing feet! functionally and aesthetically.
Alright, I get the GWF part but out of all the months TR has been on top you made a CW for PVP? That's your own stupid mistake.
From my testing, it seems to start applying bonus damage when the enemy drops below around 33% HP. It then slowly adds 1-30% damage based on health remaining, 30% when the enemy is dead (so the most you'll really see is 29% on bosses, maybe 20% against mobs)
ah, makes sense. I got this impression because only against tougher enemies is that the bonus became visible (playing in sharandar, etc. I do not see him).
anyway, I saw a ">50k" against the last boss dv when he was 6% hp. as I do not have 5/5 of the executioner style, I assume that is the maximum. was corresponding to battle fury.
well, it's suggestion for an upcoming module. one bonus based on how much hp / defensive pattern of the opponent. would be harmless in pvp against "not fighters."
u are the one for rude awakening with mod 3 gwf wont be even half as good as it used to be and it will become useless as it used to be before deep gash only now even worse since we lost sos
damage is only some 10-20% weaker on destroyer then our on live with deep gash in pve but in pvp it is a lot less destroyer or focused destroyer just dont work for pvp not even half good as deep gash and sos
^^
troll....
ah.......... but it depends on your gameplay .
The iv tends to fall (I think ) . first :
A - you will not have a " fs " doing random enemies bleed while you focus on other ( vs draco you see it , even accidentally ) .
B - probably many iv will change "not so fast" by " roar" , which will hurt trample ( unless you use the set of sharandar , as suggested kozi ) .
The sm " semi single focused " have improved ; yes, my critics are potentially lower than they were considering the total bleed ( ibs fall in +15 k ) . But more so I will not run the risk of void a bleed , as I will now have a roar / takedown faster and more interesting damage .
in general
Out " non-critical " damage have doubled and the fact the bonus be more consistent with a view that I do not need to take critical for debuff . not to mention the restoring strike healing... see and have a pleasant surprise.
But the point is , a median build improved quality. But will not compete with a thau that has a good notion of their own rotations ... which does not care anymore considering that the class will continue doing old content very well , and now " officially " .
This ... unless we have surprises on both sides.
Also, why are we comparing gwfs to cws anyways? They're going to get nerfed as well, most likely even harder than the gwf did. I don't hear any complaints about gwfs now being underpowered vs HRs, TRs etc who are the real comparables as they are suppose to be equals in pvp and pve. It seems that GWF players on here want their OP class back instead of a "balanced" game.
we compare gwf to cw because cw is aoe class as we are but cw used to have superior dps,controll,utily to gwf even before mod 3 but now gwf will worse then cw in everything by far and lost all its utily it had
hr,tr are dps classes not aoe dps as gwf so no reason to compare it it to gwf
as for nerf of cw this just wont happen ever they are broken since cb and they done nothing all they done since then is is nerfed tr,gf and gwf to useless lvls and they were a lot worse then cw for team before devs just plays cw or listen to them only ;/
There have been nerfs to ap gen, and there will be nerfs to come.
Destroyer has received some buffs to damage aside from the deep gash nerf. But none make it a better spec than Sentinel/IV for PVP. The main differences with pre-mod3 destro and post, is the capstone buff and cooldown buffs. But the capstone buff will be of little importance in PvP because it doesn't provide any upfront increased damage, heck, you need to do 20 separate attacks to get the full effect. Except against opponents facetanking a GWF, meaning some GF and other GWFs.