You simply can not argue with some people. They will claim Ice Storm is value added even though such is demonstrably not the case in any situation. It isn't even up for debate. You are neutering yourself and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> your group over if you use Ice Storm. End of story. If another CW is coming along with you, which they probably are, they are forced to clean up your messes constantly with Singularity and even they will be pissed at you for being such a jerk.
Unless, of course, you roll with 4 good buddies and they don't mind that you're making dungeons harder. I mean hey, if you're all at 17k+ then I suppose you'll take extra difficulty where ever you can get it am I right? Just because that extra difficulty is because of your own half-baked wizard rotation is no reason to knock it.
Maybe it's level 5 difficulty and you are winner!
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
You simply can not argue with some people. They will claim Ice Storm is value added even though such is demonstrably not the case in any situation. It isn't even up for debate. You are neutering yourself and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> your group over if you use Ice Storm. End of story. If another CW is coming along with you, which they probably are, they are forced to clean up your messes constantly with Singularity and even they will be pissed at you for being such a jerk.
Unless, of course, you roll with 4 good buddies and they don't mind that you're making dungeons harder. I mean hey, if you're all at 17k+ then I suppose you'll take extra difficulty where ever you can get it am I right? Just because that extra difficulty is because of your own half-baked wizard rotation is no reason to knock it.
Maybe it's level 5 difficulty and you are winner!
Ahahaha that was awesome xD
0
Options
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited March 2014
I'm not so sure about that. Diogene0 is not talking about using Ice Storm when it's going to knock everything all over the map like a bad PUG.
I agree about the full-on bad of using it in Spider most of the time because of the lack of mob control immunities, but it sounds like it's very carefully timed to reduce mob hitpoints when they're just about to be consumed, which means they're not going to get a chance to charge back in and hit the party. So it reduces Syndrith's ability to leech. It's not being used willy-nilly.
In the other cases described, it's very specifically being slotted in order to hit two big bad targets which aren't going to be knocked anywhere because of their immunities, which you can't do with an Ice Knife, Sing is absolutely useless to have slotted, and OF won't hit everything if they're not close together (I think? CW isn't my strongest character).
It's like a GWF knowing when to slot Savage Advance and when not.
Two or more and no one cares if stuff is pushed all over the place (or stuff won't get pushed), ice storm wins
Oh he's not huh?
I know that I always love it when people look at the damage numbers and think that's all that matters in a daily. Lets ignore the facts of target caps, knock backs, daze, AoE Damage and the true number of CC immune add's.
All of these factors, and more, make Ice Storm sub-optimal and I submit that if you are using a daily on less than 10 add's you are doing it horribly wrong in any fight contained within Neverwinter. (With the exception of Ice Knife in certain boss fights.)
As if there was a situation where a 5 target capped daily that also spreads those five targets across the board is useful. If it can one shot five add's, they aren't add's worth one shotting with a daily. If you don't one shot those measly five add's any follow up damage you could possibly lay on them is now single target given they are spread out and slowed. Hooray. Who doesn't love a slower clear after all?
Go back to PvP with your Ice Storm, it isn't worth using in PvE. At all. Ever. You can use it, but you are either over geared and simply don't care at all about dungeon mechanics and optimal rotations (read: useful rotations) or you are terribad and need to quit playing this game right now.
It's like a GWF knowing when to slot Savage Advance and when not.
Actually it's the same answer as when to use Ice Storm; which is never. PBAoE knockbacks are anathema to every strategy. If you use abilities such as these you suck at Neverwinter and will be kicked from teams. The absolute only caveat to this fact is if you run with a premade or guild group. Maybe there is a group out there that likes to do slow methodical clears of purely single target damage that take ages to run, but uhh...well I doubt it. A lot. Unless it's just a bad guild with bad leadership and worse players.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
I know that I always love it when some 'tard looks at the damage numbers and think that's all that matters in a daily. Lets ignore the facts of target caps, knock backs, daze, AoE Damage and the true number of CC immune add's.
All of these factors, and more, make Ice Storm sub-optimal and I submit that if you are using a daily on less than 10 add's you are doing it horribly wrong in any fight contained within Neverwinter.
As if there was a situation where a 5 target capped daily that also spreads those five targets across the board is useful. If it can one shot five add's, they aren't add's worth one shotting with a daily. If you don't one shot those measly five add's any follow up damage you could possibly lay on them is now single target given they are spread out and slowed. Hooray.
Go back to PvP with your Ice Storm, it isn't worth using in PvE. At all. Ever.
Eh, I can see some very limited cases where Ice Storm *might* be useful in PVE. I think using it in Syndryth *can* work depending on the group composition and dynamics. I think using it in the Spellplague final boss fight *might* work in *certain* cases (although I think in most cases there, Oppressive Force is better). And of course if you are completely overleveled and overgeared for the content, then anything will "work" even if it isn't optimal. But if you are at level and have simply good gear rather than BIS gear, for the Fulmi fight, Ice Storm is definitely inferior compared to Ice Knife when it comes to taking down Valindra.
Use one or the other depending on the threat/danger. For example, this CTA if you just run around and pull all the mobs/bosses, you can solo them by using oppressive force, but not with singularity. So they both have their uses.
Eh, I can see some very limited cases where Ice Storm *might* be useful in PVE. I think using it in Syndryth *can* work depending on the group composition and dynamics. I think using it in the Spellplague final boss fight *might* work in *certain* cases (although I think in most cases there, Oppressive Force is better). And of course if you are completely overleveled and overgeared for the content, then anything will "work" even if it isn't optimal. But if you are at level and have simply good gear rather than BIS gear, for the Fulmi fight, Ice Storm is definitely inferior compared to Ice Knife when it comes to taking down Valindra.
You are trading a 'definitely yes it is amazingly useful saves lives every time no matter what' ability for a 'eh it might be useful maybe in that one situation if x/x/x/x' ability.
Do you see the problem here?
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
The only difference really is that you are saying Ice Storm is 100% bad, while I am saying that it is only 98% bad.
Heh, fair enough. I'm pretty much done with this thread at this point. I don't even know why I feel obligated to continue making the same point over and over again.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
0
Options
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
In situations where the push effect doesn't matter but dealing a lot of damage does, it might be better. Completely situational. You don't slot it when the push effect is detrimental.
And no, I would not use Savage Advance in a dungeon clear and it annoys me when someone else doesn't take it off their bar when partied with me. But it's not a useless skill when used in situations where it's not stepping on somebody else's toes, like as a strong single target attack against a control-immune big bad (because not every GWF has access to Crescendo). I also find it useful when I'm doing solo stuff with my sentinel. Possibly I should revisit the old Spinning Strike (a daily enjoying renewed interest after formerly being dismissed as garbage), but I never really enjoyed that one, and it's still pretty AoE. (Situationally, sometimes I am still assigned to single-target, in which case I try to remove AoE to avoid tagging things I'm not supposed to.)
It's not an argument for using it all the time, everywhere. It's saying there are situations where it's viable. It's not like we don't have a reasonable excess of power points to play around with.
In situations where the push effect doesn't matter but dealing a lot of damage does, it might be better. Completely situational. You don't slot it when the push effect is detrimental.
And no, I would not use Savage Advance in a dungeon clear and it annoys me when someone else doesn't take it off their bar when partied with me. But it's not a useless skill when used in situations where it's not stepping on somebody else's toes, like as a strong single target attack against a control-immune big bad (because not every GWF has access to Crescendo). I also find it useful when I'm doing solo stuff with my sentinel. Possibly I should revisit the old Spinning Strike (a daily enjoying renewed interest after formerly being dismissed as garbage), but I never really enjoyed that one, and it's still pretty AoE. (Situationally, sometimes I am still assigned to single-target, in which case I try to remove AoE to avoid tagging things I'm not supposed to.)
It's not an argument for using it all the time, everywhere. It's saying there are situations where it's viable. It's not like we don't have a reasonable excess of power points to play around with.
Your SO right! Use those! Good call! So smart!
Close thread please -.- the longer I read this there
I want to scream.
0
Options
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited March 2014
Yeah, it's obviously 100% correct to use either Avalanche or Slam 100% of the time, and when neither one of them is appropriate, then obviously you should just avoid using dailies altogether.
And our power bars are fixed and once we slot something there, we can't change it.
Comments
Oppressive Force, Singularity?.. Both better than Ice Storm..
Unless, of course, you roll with 4 good buddies and they don't mind that you're making dungeons harder. I mean hey, if you're all at 17k+ then I suppose you'll take extra difficulty where ever you can get it am I right? Just because that extra difficulty is because of your own half-baked wizard rotation is no reason to knock it.
Maybe it's level 5 difficulty and you are winner!
Ahahaha that was awesome xD
I agree about the full-on bad of using it in Spider most of the time because of the lack of mob control immunities, but it sounds like it's very carefully timed to reduce mob hitpoints when they're just about to be consumed, which means they're not going to get a chance to charge back in and hit the party. So it reduces Syndrith's ability to leech. It's not being used willy-nilly.
In the other cases described, it's very specifically being slotted in order to hit two big bad targets which aren't going to be knocked anywhere because of their immunities, which you can't do with an Ice Knife, Sing is absolutely useless to have slotted, and OF won't hit everything if they're not close together (I think? CW isn't my strongest character).
It's like a GWF knowing when to slot Savage Advance and when not.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Singularity is the single best ability in the entire game for the content. No reason not to use it as much as possible.
Oh he's not huh?
I know that I always love it when people look at the damage numbers and think that's all that matters in a daily. Lets ignore the facts of target caps, knock backs, daze, AoE Damage and the true number of CC immune add's.
All of these factors, and more, make Ice Storm sub-optimal and I submit that if you are using a daily on less than 10 add's you are doing it horribly wrong in any fight contained within Neverwinter. (With the exception of Ice Knife in certain boss fights.)
As if there was a situation where a 5 target capped daily that also spreads those five targets across the board is useful. If it can one shot five add's, they aren't add's worth one shotting with a daily. If you don't one shot those measly five add's any follow up damage you could possibly lay on them is now single target given they are spread out and slowed. Hooray. Who doesn't love a slower clear after all?
Go back to PvP with your Ice Storm, it isn't worth using in PvE. At all. Ever. You can use it, but you are either over geared and simply don't care at all about dungeon mechanics and optimal rotations (read: useful rotations) or you are terribad and need to quit playing this game right now.
Actually it's the same answer as when to use Ice Storm; which is never. PBAoE knockbacks are anathema to every strategy. If you use abilities such as these you suck at Neverwinter and will be kicked from teams. The absolute only caveat to this fact is if you run with a premade or guild group. Maybe there is a group out there that likes to do slow methodical clears of purely single target damage that take ages to run, but uhh...well I doubt it. A lot. Unless it's just a bad guild with bad leadership and worse players.
That only works if the rest of the team compensates for the wasted DPS that you used on Fulmi that you should have been using instead on Val.
All else equal, Ice Storm deals less damage per target than Ice Knife. That isn't even arguable, that is just math.
Eh, I can see some very limited cases where Ice Storm *might* be useful in PVE. I think using it in Syndryth *can* work depending on the group composition and dynamics. I think using it in the Spellplague final boss fight *might* work in *certain* cases (although I think in most cases there, Oppressive Force is better). And of course if you are completely overleveled and overgeared for the content, then anything will "work" even if it isn't optimal. But if you are at level and have simply good gear rather than BIS gear, for the Fulmi fight, Ice Storm is definitely inferior compared to Ice Knife when it comes to taking down Valindra.
Oppressive force saves lives.
Use one or the other depending on the threat/danger. For example, this CTA if you just run around and pull all the mobs/bosses, you can solo them by using oppressive force, but not with singularity. So they both have their uses.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
You are trading a 'definitely yes it is amazingly useful saves lives every time no matter what' ability for a 'eh it might be useful maybe in that one situation if x/x/x/x' ability.
Do you see the problem here?
Heh, fair enough. I'm pretty much done with this thread at this point. I don't even know why I feel obligated to continue making the same point over and over again.
You're still not reading that right.
In situations where the push effect doesn't matter but dealing a lot of damage does, it might be better. Completely situational. You don't slot it when the push effect is detrimental.
And no, I would not use Savage Advance in a dungeon clear and it annoys me when someone else doesn't take it off their bar when partied with me. But it's not a useless skill when used in situations where it's not stepping on somebody else's toes, like as a strong single target attack against a control-immune big bad (because not every GWF has access to Crescendo). I also find it useful when I'm doing solo stuff with my sentinel. Possibly I should revisit the old Spinning Strike (a daily enjoying renewed interest after formerly being dismissed as garbage), but I never really enjoyed that one, and it's still pretty AoE. (Situationally, sometimes I am still assigned to single-target, in which case I try to remove AoE to avoid tagging things I'm not supposed to.)
It's not an argument for using it all the time, everywhere. It's saying there are situations where it's viable. It's not like we don't have a reasonable excess of power points to play around with.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Your SO right! Use those! Good call! So smart!
Close thread please -.- the longer I read this there
I want to scream.
And our power bars are fixed and once we slot something there, we can't change it.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia