Actually to me split shot seems a bit more better than previous patches. Before it would take like 3 shots with it to kill weak mobs, now it is like one or two hits. And my gear hasn't changed
Strange, cuz it seemed to me like it's just the other way round - before I could kill 3 - 4 small mobs with one or two split shots, now I need two or three... Maybe it's my gear..
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
Feedback: Powers: Rain of Arrow
AOE too small for any real benefit. Should be a larger area, to be able to take in more of the enemy.
I use rain of arrows on melee mobs and in three hits the 3 in front die while I've turned around and used the same 3 shots to kill the one behind me. I do agree that a larger target area would work better.
Strange, cuz it seemed to me like it's just the other way round - before I could kill 3 - 4 small mobs with one or two split shots, now I need two or three... Maybe it's my gear..
It could be your gear. The HR I have, I hadn't played in a couple weeks so she didn't move thru a couple patches. So my gear never changed and neither did any of my skills. Split shot changed on how many shots were needed to kill. Rapid I am not sure yet. Her survivability also seems to be better somewhat as she hasn't taken much damage compared to before. I still would like to see some damage increase to split the sky. Should they increase that dps skill then I feel range stance is more viable.
TBH split the sky feels like better melee oriented ranged skill the a ranged dps encounter. In fact any AoE ranged power better suite melee playstyle fire forget stand in the aoe melee mobs down but in groups settings i can see it as a viable ranged dps skill. But thats probly thanks to me seeing the archery tree as very high single target DPS combat as more High AoE dps tree line the keystone feat in the tree makes it even seem more that way
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited November 2013
Hawk Shot: 80 feet is way too short, 100 yds. (300 feet) is what this shot should be about and 100 yds. is the standard English yeoman range. Hitting someone at that range, 3-4 hits = kill (and they never get to melee). The gap is for max range to melee range. With this power - if I can see it I should be able to shoot at and hit it.
Electric Shot: Use the same effect as the Stormcallers in Vellosk. And you're right in that it should damage as much as Rapid Shot.
Disruptive Shot: Leave it as a Daily. 25% AP gives 3-5 shots. It has a short, but useful stun feature.
I agree here for the first roughly 15 levels the class did feel a bit high end, I was doing in 2-3 hits what my same level Wiz did in 3-4, but as my Ranger leveled up things became increasingly more difficult, and damages/survivability seemed to start really sagging behind. Once I got to about 35 I really started to notice a slow down in scaling of the abilities my character already had versus my Wiz which I kept same level, and in similar gear. Now at 57 my Ranger is barely doing much better than my Wiz who I left at level 35.
I see allot of people making comparisons between Ranger Ranged v Wiz, and Ranger Melee v Rog, flatly put, there are no comparisons of worth. The Ranger is lacking far behind the Wiz at Ranged dmg over all, and Control (what control they have), their buffs/support capabilities are weak (although useful), and almost entirely dependent on the class being in Melee combat, which is where the Ranger as of late, is lacking the worst. Granted, this is a Ranger, hence Ranged class and therefore should not be of some superlative Melee capacity, but they do need a boost, as well they need their Support roll abilities spread out better with more of them applied to their Ranged roll.
The damage variances, or gaps if you will are far too severe, and many of their Staple skills need to scale better with character level and gear. Some skills such as Electric Shot, need to be entirely re-addressed, this skill is of very little to (imo) no use, it should do far more damage for it's level, and requirement.
Disruptive Shot (Daily), although it has it's place, I do not see this as one that should be a Daily, it would be far more befitting the class if it were an Encounter skill.
Hawk Shot (Encounter) Why this skill has such a gross gap in it's totals is beyond me, at level 57 this skill has a variance gap of 2,135, that is an enormous window. With the amount of time it takes to cast this skill, it should be fer more inline with Aimed Shot.
Rain of Arrows (Encounter), although this skill is nice for what it does, the radius is far too small for the duration and damage it has. I would like to see the Radius increased to bring it up to par with other similar skills.
Electric Shot (At-will) does far too little damage to be of any application over any other skill, it should at least do as much damage as Rapid Shot. Given it's level requirement, I would like to see the AoE damage that it does, increase per the amount of enemies tht are hit with it's AoE effect, either that, or it should do the same damage as Rapid Shot, and have a subsidiary effect chance on all hit by the AoE effect such as Strong Grasping Roots, or Bleed Effect, or Stun, and so on. This would bring it up to par with the Encounter Skill Binding Arrow, and in fact make it one that many may want to use along side Binding Arrow.
Feedback: At-Wills;
Character Info: Level 60 Tiefling Str 16 Con 15 Dex 24 Int 14 Wis 20 Cha 13 (with Campfire)
No set bonuses.
+4 Smiting Scout's Longbow 426-521 damage (Green Item)/+4 Piercing Warden's Blades 293-359 damage (Blue Item)
2645 power, 6031 Attack, 24.9% base crit, archer spec.
All at-wills are 3/3.
Tooltip damage is Ranged/Melee
Split Shot - Tooltip 1054-3043/430-492
Please stop messing with this power it should make the baseline for the class. It has solid damage with a single click spread over a wide burst of targets, or can be held and focused on to a narrow burst for good damage. The melee power is also effective and offers a good array of choices.
Rapid Shot - Tooltip 545-628/397-454
You can do 2 clicks in the time it takes to do 1 click of Split Shot and get about the same damage, but you have the advantage of being able to move and fire much more freely than any of the other at-wills. It needs a 10-15% bump in damage to get it just above a single click of Split Shot while keeping it below Aimed Shot. When opposed by 1 enemy it should be better to click through Rapid Shots than Split Shots, but not a lot better. The melee power is also good.
Aimed Shot - Tooltip 4408-5100/3841-4374
Slow firing high DPS, this power is very good now. The only thing that would make it better is for DoT to not interrupt it. Sure being hit for damage should, but DoT shouldn't. Even if DoT still disrupts this will be a staple power when the DPS has to happen. Melee is perhaps a little strange in its application and could perhaps be faster, or allow movement during its casting time.
Electric Shot - Tooltip 257-297/213-317
What to say... Well firstly a single shot takes longer than a single shot from Split Shot. Secondly on average it does about 1/7th the damage of Split Shot and about 1/2 the damage of Rapid Shot for 1 click (1/4 when you can fire Rapid 2x in the same time). This power needs to be 4x more effective, then it would be a good alternative to Split Shot - lower maximum possible damage for faster casting time, but still slightly less single target DPS than Rapid Shot.
Feedback: Melee vs Ranged Melee still needs more damage.
Feedback: Dailies and Encounters vs At-Wills If the at-wills are held as is (with appropriate adjustments up as noted above) then the Daily and Encounter to At-Will balance is sound. The main damage producers of the class then become that at-wills and the encounters and dailies are about providing effects; DoT (Rain/Thorn/Split), Buffs (Boar/Stag/Oak/Fox), Conditions (Constricting, Binding, Hindering, Disrupting) or special effects (Maruders, Ghost, Meditation, Seismic, Cold). This would keep the Ranger in line with the other classes in terms of damage expectations while further cementing the difference in play experience between it and the other classes.
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Feedback: The class seems a bit overpowered to me. Almost always I am able to engage an enemy group which has a elite mob in it and I am able to defeat them all taking little to no damage by combining ranged and melee combat together even at end game levels.
Rapid shot: damage and timing seems fine for both ranged and melee. Most people who are wanting a damage increase particularly for melee fail to consider that the rangers attack chain is also one of the fastest in game.
Split shot: Honestly, I think k this does a little too much damage. Two good shots and you have a strong possibility of killing all non elite mobs in the range. Seems a bit much.
Electric shot: This is the paragon at will and its melee attack is far superior to its ranged because the storm warden paragon path seems to be a melee based one. The ranged attack speed and damage is fine but I would maybe add a short duration dot effect maybe to its attacks to actually make it worth using in ranged. Otherwise the only reason to get this power is the melee at will.
This class shouldn't do cw and tr like damage with its attacks and I think that its close to of feasible as is now.
It is posts like that, that kill classes. The class is NOT overpowered so why do people claim it is. Myself and others here have been testing this class since day 1. It is not overpowered, if anything it is weaker than other classes now. There have been some increase but NOT enough to make it viable.
Feedback: The class seems a bit overpowered to me. Almost always I am able to engage an enemy group which has a elite mob in it and I am able to defeat them all taking little to no damage by combining ranged and melee combat together even at end game levels.
Rapid shot: damage and timing seems fine for both ranged and melee. Most people who are wanting a damage increase particularly for melee fail to consider that the rangers attack chain is also one of the fastest in game.
Split shot: Honestly, I think k this does a little too much damage. Two good shots and you have a strong possibility of killing all non elite mobs in the range. Seems a bit much.
Electric shot: This is the paragon at will and its melee attack is far superior to its ranged because the storm warden paragon path seems to be a melee based one. The ranged attack speed and damage is fine but I would maybe add a short duration dot effect maybe to its attacks to actually make it worth using in ranged. Otherwise the only reason to get this power is the melee at will.
This class shouldn't do cw and tr like damage with its attacks and I think that its close to of feasible as is now.
This class is far from overpowered my friend there still a few feats/skills that need fixing there are a few feats that make me ask did we just copy past the TR skill on HR with a few new additions. Any way lets get started .
Rapid Fire This skill needs a faster animation Right now Split shot outshines it from a purely ranged stand point But it dose have its uses i believe Rapid Fire and Electric Shot can be very strong In AoE Melee Builds for stacking your aspect of serpent and what not or prepare for a AoE Burst. The AoE dmg on electric shot needs a buffing though. But Both there melee versions are strong Rapid strike is particularly strong for AoE coupled with the combat tree Keystone feat its fast animation gets the most out of that feat.
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Oh I've been playing it and recently leveled it to 60 even after all of these perceived nerfs. Even posted some gameplay footage of the class. obviously your experience with the class is different than mine which is fine and all but doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Many seem so dead set on getting the class molded to what they think it should be without considering that maybe you just shouldn't play it. Just saying is all...
I think the devs did a fairly good job of merging a two style character in one and I think a lot of people are posting for buffs without taking everything into consideration. This happens with every class though so I suppose its to be expected.
Feedback: The class seems a bit overpowered to me. Almost always I am able to engage an enemy group which has a elite mob in it and I am able to defeat them all taking little to no damage by combining ranged and melee combat together even at end game levels.
Sounds like its performing on par with other classes to me rather than being overpowered. Its not until I start doing dungeons that I take much damage with any class (and I have played them all to 60), so this sounds normal.
This class shouldn't do cw and tr like damage with its attacks and I think that its close to of feasible as is now.
It is hard to say what the designers intend it to do, the class notes give no clue unlike the other classes. So we are left to speculate. In 4E the default role for the Ranger is Striker, there is at least 1 controller build as well. So that makes it either a comparison to the GWF and TR or the CW. Now I suppose you could make the argument that GWFs do enough damage as strikers, but I don't think many would believe you; people look for CWs and TRs for DPS and are always surprised when a GWF does competitive damage with those classes (and considering I've out-damaged GWFs with a GF it's not surprising that people are surprised when my GWF is in the top of the DPS brackets).
However looking at the general play of the HR, CW seems to be about the right comparison, with slightly higher damage expected because of lowered control.
As to the Paragon Path, I thought the same thing when I first looked at it; this is a melee PP with a mostly ranged class, but the more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that the HR is supposed to be Striker/Leader(Buffing) and the Paragon Path is intended to support the buffing aspect of the class.
Given the 3 paragon paths I can see a true melee and true archer PP at later dates; this one I think is actually more Nature focused, as they wanted to highlight the primal side of rangers to start with, so people don't just think "shooty or stabby" when they look at the class, just as their description alludes to with its repeated mentions of nature/primal.
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Feedback: Bow Position I have started seeing more quivers on the armor which is awesome, but now the bow is angled across the quiver which is not so awesome. Would be great if the bow and quiver pointed in the same direction and would reduce some of the "floating in air" look that has been much commented on.
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Feedback: At-Wills;
Character Info: Level 60 Tiefling Str 16 Con 15 Dex 24 Int 14 Wis 20 Cha 13 (with Campfire)
No set bonuses.
+4 Smiting Scout's Longbow 426-521 damage (Green Item)/+4 Piercing Warden's Blades 293-359 damage (Blue Item)
2645 power, 6031 Attack, 24.9% base crit, archer spec.
All at-wills are 3/3.
Tooltip damage is Ranged/Melee
Split Shot - Tooltip 1054-3043/430-492
Please stop messing with this power it should make the baseline for the class. It has solid damage with a single click spread over a wide burst of targets, or can be held and focused on to a narrow burst for good damage. The melee power is also effective and offers a good array of choices.
Rapid Shot - Tooltip 545-628/397-454
You can do 2 clicks in the time it takes to do 1 click of Split Shot and get about the same damage, but you have the advantage of being able to move and fire much more freely than any of the other at-wills. It needs a 10-15% bump in damage to get it just above a single click of Split Shot while keeping it below Aimed Shot. When opposed by 1 enemy it should be better to click through Rapid Shots than Split Shots, but not a lot better. The melee power is also good.
Aimed Shot - Tooltip 4408-5100/3841-4374
Slow firing high DPS, this power is very good now. The only thing that would make it better is for DoT to not interrupt it. Sure being hit for damage should, but DoT shouldn't. Even if DoT still disrupts this will be a staple power when the DPS has to happen. Melee is perhaps a little strange in its application and could perhaps be faster, or allow movement during its casting time.
Electric Shot - Tooltip 257-297/213-317
What to say... Well firstly a single shot takes longer than a single shot from Split Shot. Secondly on average it does about 1/7th the damage of Split Shot and about 1/2 the damage of Rapid Shot for 1 click (1/4 when you can fire Rapid 2x in the same time). This power needs to be 4x more effective, then it would be a good alternative to Split Shot - lower maximum possible damage for faster casting time, but still slightly less single target DPS than Rapid Shot.
Feedback: Melee vs Ranged Melee still needs more damage.
Feedback: Dailies and Encounters vs At-Wills If the at-wills are held as is (with appropriate adjustments up as noted above) then the Daily and Encounter to At-Will balance is sound. The main damage producers of the class then become that at-wills and the encounters and dailies are about providing effects; DoT (Rain/Thorn/Split), Buffs (Boar/Stag/Oak/Fox), Conditions (Constricting, Binding, Hindering, Disrupting) or special effects (Maruders, Ghost, Meditation, Seismic, Cold). This would keep the Ranger in line with the other classes in terms of damage expectations while further cementing the difference in play experience between it and the other classes.
That is a good overall at-will assessment.
I just want to comment on electric shot, as I played quite a bit with it. It is definitely underpowered, and by a lot. It is easier to compare it now that split shot can be more consistently chained. Still, when maxed out it has a great aoe range, and it is slightly easier to use than split shot, namely in that it can be used at point blank range where split really can't. For that, it should not do as much damage as split, but it shoud do at least 85-90% of split's damage. It should never be compared to rapid shot as it is an aoe power, and a good one.
As a melee ranger I would really like the option to disable bow graphics when in melee stance, both in and out of combat.. With a perfect vorpal slotted and the rather bulky designs of the bows (which are pretty) it looks like I am carrying a neon sign on my back, and that is so very un-ranger-like. The functionality is there as the bow disappears when mounted, so it should not be a hard thing to add. Of course when in ranged stance the bow graphics would remain.
Oh I've been playing it and recently leveled it to 60 even after all of these perceived nerfs. Even posted some gameplay footage of the class. obviously your experience with the class is different than mine which is fine and all but doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Many seem so dead set on getting the class molded to what they think it should be without considering that maybe you just shouldn't play it. Just saying is all...
I think the devs did a fairly good job of merging a two style character in one and I think a lot of people are posting for buffs without taking everything into consideration. This happens with every class though so I suppose its to be expected.
Most people here are evaluating specific powers when compared to other HR powers and to other classes' powers. People crying for general, overall buffs are few and not taken very seriously. I guess that is true of every unspecific post.
You are right in that everyone's play experience is different while leveling up. The difference narrows once you put in tens of hours at level 60 and move towards more equally powered gear. We do not all agree on everything in here, rather, we are just trying to give feedback on which powers need adjustment and why. In doing so, we try to specify what we are taking under consideration as that helps others put things in perspective.
Electric Shot: Needs a buff, as many have pointed out. Electric Melee is fine, but the ranged attacks are just too weak to use effectively.
Aimed Shot: Needs "something", either the ability to move while using it, the removal of the interrupt, or a faster animation. Damage is fine, but my preference would be the ability to move at "walking speed' while using the power *and* having the last 2/3 of the animation be uninterruptable.
Hawk Shot: Damage range is too wide 9as pointed out above) and the Hawkeye power is almost useless. Make the Hawkeye a % increase to everyone in the group, or make it do a static amount that is worth having, or make the low damage apply to more attacks. Just don't leave it as-is.
Aspect of the pack needs at least 10 or more range added to it that or its bugged cause its range is kinda short but when its working you know it. The Feature perfect for both archer and combat builds and extremely good for nature builds. Sometimes i wonder why people say the class is underpowered when we have accesses to on demand combat advantage a ranged tree that guarantees we crit 50% of the time We make good buffers and we Can have Nice Melee AoE dmg. We do have a few skills and at wills that need to be put in line. I think this underpowered talk comes from people wanting to play it out of the hybrid style its meant to be played in.
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You are forgetting there is people that don't want to use melee. If you want to use melee that is your choice. Everything is about choice on how to play. Hunter Rangers primary is DPS as stated in interviews with Lead Dev Velaquez. The Ranger also has the Option to switch. Doesn't say it has to.
As I have mentioned in other posts lately. There has been some slight increase but with alittle more and I feel the class will be ready. I am not calling for a big increase, just a slight increase.
So let me get this straight...rangers have an at-will power aimed shot that has a base max damage of 8000 and can crit for about 15k possibly more. This is a power that doesn't have a cooldown and can be used repeatedly. I want to play a ranger but I sure as heck don't want to be on the receiving end of this power. It needs to be changed.
So let me get this straight...rangers have an at-will power aimed shot that has a base max damage of 8000 and can crit for about 15k possibly more. This is a power that doesn't have a cooldown and can be used repeatedly. I want to play a ranger but I sure as heck don't want to be on the receiving end of this power. It needs to be changed.
zzZzzzZZzZ.... and now try to use it and ull see its not that great!
You are forgetting there is people that don't want to use melee. If you want to use melee that is your choice. Everything is about choice on how to play. Hunter Rangers primary is DPS as stated in interviews with Lead Dev Velaquez. The Ranger also has the Option to switch. Doesn't say it has to.
As I have mentioned in other posts lately. There has been some slight increase but with alittle more and I feel the class will be ready. I am not calling for a big increase, just a slight increase.
There several buffs and a class feature that say otherwise but still its my opinion. Any way the Archer Tree is Primarily ranged dps Crit tree with Melee burst why melee Burst for a ranged tree cause half the buffs in it affect your Melee skills so does the keystone Feat one feat even rely On melee skills to lower the recharge of ranged skills. I get that people don't want to go melee but that,s why you go archer if you dont want to BE a melee PRIMARY Hybrid. But your still gonna melee to get off your secondary skills when your ranged skills are on CD and to build up aspect of serpent and Agile Hunter Buffs that boost your overall DPS.
This can also be said for Combat Tree for Bloodthirsty Aspect of serpent and who Know The feature that boost dmg by 3% whenever you change stances. A Few of the best HR buffs Rely on us switching stances and i don't understand how any one can knowingly gimp there dps buy not changing stances then say the stance you only stay in needs a slight dmg buff to its skill,s to make up for laziness or lets say stubbornness on the players part.
So let me get this straight...rangers have an at-will power aimed shot that has a base max damage of 8000 and can crit for about 15k possibly more. This is a power that doesn't have a cooldown and can be used repeatedly. I want to play a ranger but I sure as heck don't want to be on the receiving end of this power. It needs to be changed.
The skill is horrible and your a sitting duck while using it thanks to the long obvious cast time and animation and even the slightest bit of dmg interrupts it.
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So let me get this straight...rangers have an at-will power aimed shot that has a base max damage of 8000 and can crit for about 15k possibly more. This is a power that doesn't have a cooldown and can be used repeatedly. I want to play a ranger but I sure as heck don't want to be on the receiving end of this power. It needs to be changed.
Theres a whole lot more to this skill than just the damage it gives.
Thats like saying how much Gloaming Cut hits, and how much it can crit. But unless you actually use the skill to know that it also is hard to hit a target with and its very slow animation time. That makes a drastic difference in the skill as a whole.
So dont paint a black and white picture about a skill without using it yourself or seeing it in action.
There several buffs and a class feature that say otherwise but still its my opinion. Any way the Archer Tree is Primarily ranged dps Crit tree with Melee burst why melee Burst for a ranged tree cause half the buffs in it affect your Melee skills so does the keystone Feat one feat even rely On melee skills to lower the recharge of ranged skills. I get that people don't want to go melee but that,s why you go archer if you dont want to BE a melee PRIMARY Hybrid. But your still gonna melee to get off your secondary skills when your ranged skills are on CD and to build up aspect of serpent and Agile Hunter Buffs that boost your overall DPS.
This can also be said for Combat Tree for Bloodthirsty Aspect of serpent and who Know The feature that boost dmg by 3% whenever you change stances. A Few of the best HR buffs Rely on us switching stances and i don't understand how any one can knowingly gimp there dps buy not changing stances then say the stance you only stay in needs a slight dmg buff to its skill,s to make up for laziness or lets say stubbornness on the players part.
According to the interview. The stance switch is optional. I only take feats for ranged. I don't switch as I don't care for melee. Hunter Ranger has been said from the start it is either/or melee and ranged or you can use both if that is your play style.
I agree with the others on Aimed Shot. Unless you actually use it, saying it is overpowered is not appropriate. In PvP you probably would be lucky to get it off once.
According to the interview. The stance switch is optional. I only take feats for ranged. I don't switch as I don't care for melee. Hunter Ranger has been said from the start it is either/or melee and ranged or you can use both if that is your play style.
Please tell me you put 3/3 in Agile Combatant?
If not please do so. Even if you never plan to fight in melee you can benefit from Agile Combatant. Many ranged powers have useful buffs; Commanding Shot in particular is very useful, and Binding Shot's buff is good (even if Binding needs some work).
So here is how you benefit from Agile Combatant; You come into range of the mob, you tab to melee and buff with Stag Heart, then tab back to Ranged, you now have 3% more damage for 5s, enough time for a quick spray of Split Shot or a Commanding Shot on a single thing (eg like the Maws in the Chasm). As you fight you will then tab at some stage apply a buff (Stag/Oak/Throw) and tab back for another 5s of +3%.
You never have to make a melee attack to benefit from this feat. Please use it.
As to Aimed Shot you should go 3/3 in it, but it is indeed not easy to use effectively, but there are certainly times when it works well.
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According to the interview. The stance switch is optional. I only take feats for ranged. I don't switch as I don't care for melee. Hunter Ranger has been said from the start it is either/or melee and ranged or you can use both if that is your play style.
Hold up But lead Combat designer Kevin Stocker said you get the most out of the class switching stances let me quote what he said
After the initial prototyping phase, our first big goal was to get Ranged and Melee combat feeling awesome. We weren’t sure at first that we’d let the Hunter Ranger switch between two full combat modes, but it became pretty apparent after some initial prototyping that this was the way to go. With a limited hotbar, it would have been pretty uncool to have ranged- and melee-restricted encounters.
So we ended up with the Hunter Ranger being able to switch combat modes through his/her Tab mechanic. As soon as we started playing with this new design, we all loved it. It added a little more strategy and planning to the gameplay as well as requiring some quickness in the fingers to get the most out of the class. Everyone was pretty motivated to get this feature in the final class design, even with the extra powers and additional work required from the team.
Because the Hunter Ranger can switch between combat modes, s/he also benefits from having two versions of each At-Will and Encounter power. The separate versions of the powers have different cooldowns, so you can really get strategic with your rotation and playstyle. Additionally, some of the powers compliment their counterparts very well. For instance, Marauder’s Escape / Marauder’s Rush are both big movement powers. Marauder’s Rush can allow you to lunge into combat from a long distance and Marauder’s Escape can let you jump back out.
For some of the even more spectacular combinations, you’ll have to look outside of just the ranged/melee versions of a single power. Let me give an example:
(Melee) Cast Hawkeye to buff your next attack
(Ranged) Open the fight with Hawk Shot, which deals additional damage at long range
(Melee) Dash in with Marauder’s Rush
(Melee) Apply a bleed with Aimed Strike
(Melee) Hindering Strike to root your target
(Ranged) Dash backwards with Marauder’s Escape
(Ranged) Immediately cast Aimed Shot, which is a high damage At-Will that can be interrupted if you take damage
(Ranged) Continue casting Hindering Shot (3 charges) and use Rapid Shot or another At-Will until your powers come off cooldown, or you can use a daily.
With this combination you can deal a pretty deadly rotation against either a single enemy or a player in PvP. There are lots of other combos available and I think there’s a lot of room to get creative with the Hunter Ranger.
From His blog one would think the class is meant to be played hybrid to get the most out of it PvP Or PvE or to even get creative with it. But if you want to gimp your dps thats you
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werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So let me get this straight...rangers have an at-will power aimed shot that has a base max damage of 8000 and can crit for about 15k possibly more. This is a power that doesn't have a cooldown and can be used repeatedly. I want to play a ranger but I sure as heck don't want to be on the receiving end of this power. It needs to be changed.
You must live under a rock. You are rooted while using it, it has a 3 second cast time (2.5 with full ranks, whoopie -_-) ANY damage will interrupt it including DoTs and its easy as heck to dodge. If you ever get hit by this power it's because you are either terrible, not paying attention, or someone is the luckiest ranger alive... for about 2 more seconds anyway because after standing still for that long you're about to get facerolled anyway.
You must live under a rock. You are rooted while using it, it has a 3 second cast time (2.5 with full ranks, whoopie -_-) ANY damage will interrupt it including DoTs and its easy as heck to dodge. If you ever get hit by this power it's because you are either terrible, not paying attention, or someone is the luckiest ranger alive... for about 2 more seconds anyway because after standing still for that long you're about to get facerolled anyway.
just this^
I like the rock part the most!
Anyway we should go back to topic, even so we gave like a truckload of feedback and bug reports and like NOTHING has been changed due to our feedback, only visual and audio stuff....
Hold up But lead Combat designer Kevin Stocker said you get the most out of the class switching stances let me quote what he said
*snipped*
From His blog one would think the class is meant to be played hybrid to get the most out of it PvP Or PvE or to even get creative with it. But if you want to gimp your dps thats you
Feel free to try that tactic, it will not work as well as the Dev implies.
Devs often say "this is supposed to be X and do Y" then players learn that it actually "does A to do B" far better than what the Devs said in their talks about whatever it is. Devs have a narrow focus aimed at producing a particular result and limited man-hours, players seek the best result and have infinite man-hours; guess who finds the best way to utilise a game element?
That said the Ranger is optimised by switching stances, because that lets you sustain an attack longer at higher average DPS. Rangers are also more effective in a party where many of their buffs can be applied across the party to maximise party effectiveness; but you don't see that being talked up much do you?
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Feel free to try that tactic, it will not work as well as the Dev implies.
Devs often say "this is supposed to be X and do Y" then players learn that it actually "does A to do B" far better than what the Devs said in their talks about whatever it is. Devs have a narrow focus aimed at producing a particular result and limited man-hours, players seek the best result and have infinite man-hours; guess who finds the best way to utilise a game element?
That said the Ranger is optimised by switching stances, because that lets you sustain an attack longer at higher average DPS. Rangers are also more effective in a party where many of their buffs can be applied across the party to maximise party effectiveness; but you don't see that being talked up much do you?
I didn't post the blog to point out a bad rotation i pointed it out to say the dev meant for the class to switch stances if your not switching stances as intended your gimping your dps. If i wanted to point out a rotation i wouldn't have used the horrible one mentioned in his post i would have just given you my normal ingame rotation.
Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
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Comments
Strange, cuz it seemed to me like it's just the other way round - before I could kill 3 - 4 small mobs with one or two split shots, now I need two or three... Maybe it's my gear..
I use rain of arrows on melee mobs and in three hits the 3 in front die while I've turned around and used the same 3 shots to kill the one behind me. I do agree that a larger target area would work better.
It could be your gear. The HR I have, I hadn't played in a couple weeks so she didn't move thru a couple patches. So my gear never changed and neither did any of my skills. Split shot changed on how many shots were needed to kill. Rapid I am not sure yet. Her survivability also seems to be better somewhat as she hasn't taken much damage compared to before. I still would like to see some damage increase to split the sky. Should they increase that dps skill then I feel range stance is more viable.
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Electric Shot: Use the same effect as the Stormcallers in Vellosk. And you're right in that it should damage as much as Rapid Shot.
Disruptive Shot: Leave it as a Daily. 25% AP gives 3-5 shots. It has a short, but useful stun feature.
Character Info: Level 60 Tiefling Str 16 Con 15 Dex 24 Int 14 Wis 20 Cha 13 (with Campfire)
No set bonuses.
+4 Smiting Scout's Longbow 426-521 damage (Green Item)/+4 Piercing Warden's Blades 293-359 damage (Blue Item)
2645 power, 6031 Attack, 24.9% base crit, archer spec.
All at-wills are 3/3.
Tooltip damage is Ranged/Melee
Split Shot - Tooltip 1054-3043/430-492
Please stop messing with this power it should make the baseline for the class. It has solid damage with a single click spread over a wide burst of targets, or can be held and focused on to a narrow burst for good damage. The melee power is also effective and offers a good array of choices.
Rapid Shot - Tooltip 545-628/397-454
You can do 2 clicks in the time it takes to do 1 click of Split Shot and get about the same damage, but you have the advantage of being able to move and fire much more freely than any of the other at-wills. It needs a 10-15% bump in damage to get it just above a single click of Split Shot while keeping it below Aimed Shot. When opposed by 1 enemy it should be better to click through Rapid Shots than Split Shots, but not a lot better. The melee power is also good.
Aimed Shot - Tooltip 4408-5100/3841-4374
Slow firing high DPS, this power is very good now. The only thing that would make it better is for DoT to not interrupt it. Sure being hit for damage should, but DoT shouldn't. Even if DoT still disrupts this will be a staple power when the DPS has to happen. Melee is perhaps a little strange in its application and could perhaps be faster, or allow movement during its casting time.
Electric Shot - Tooltip 257-297/213-317
What to say... Well firstly a single shot takes longer than a single shot from Split Shot. Secondly on average it does about 1/7th the damage of Split Shot and about 1/2 the damage of Rapid Shot for 1 click (1/4 when you can fire Rapid 2x in the same time). This power needs to be 4x more effective, then it would be a good alternative to Split Shot - lower maximum possible damage for faster casting time, but still slightly less single target DPS than Rapid Shot.
Feedback: Melee vs Ranged
Melee still needs more damage.
Feedback: Dailies and Encounters vs At-Wills
If the at-wills are held as is (with appropriate adjustments up as noted above) then the Daily and Encounter to At-Will balance is sound. The main damage producers of the class then become that at-wills and the encounters and dailies are about providing effects; DoT (Rain/Thorn/Split), Buffs (Boar/Stag/Oak/Fox), Conditions (Constricting, Binding, Hindering, Disrupting) or special effects (Maruders, Ghost, Meditation, Seismic, Cold). This would keep the Ranger in line with the other classes in terms of damage expectations while further cementing the difference in play experience between it and the other classes.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Rapid shot: damage and timing seems fine for both ranged and melee. Most people who are wanting a damage increase particularly for melee fail to consider that the rangers attack chain is also one of the fastest in game.
Split shot: Honestly, I think k this does a little too much damage. Two good shots and you have a strong possibility of killing all non elite mobs in the range. Seems a bit much.
Electric shot: This is the paragon at will and its melee attack is far superior to its ranged because the storm warden paragon path seems to be a melee based one. The ranged attack speed and damage is fine but I would maybe add a short duration dot effect maybe to its attacks to actually make it worth using in ranged. Otherwise the only reason to get this power is the melee at will.
This class shouldn't do cw and tr like damage with its attacks and I think that its close to of feasible as is now.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
This class is far from overpowered my friend there still a few feats/skills that need fixing there are a few feats that make me ask did we just copy past the TR skill on HR with a few new additions. Any way lets get started .
Rapid Fire This skill needs a faster animation Right now Split shot outshines it from a purely ranged stand point But it dose have its uses i believe Rapid Fire and Electric Shot can be very strong In AoE Melee Builds for stacking your aspect of serpent and what not or prepare for a AoE Burst. The AoE dmg on electric shot needs a buffing though. But Both there melee versions are strong Rapid strike is particularly strong for AoE coupled with the combat tree Keystone feat its fast animation gets the most out of that feat.
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Many seem so dead set on getting the class molded to what they think it should be without considering that maybe you just shouldn't play it. Just saying is all...
I think the devs did a fairly good job of merging a two style character in one and I think a lot of people are posting for buffs without taking everything into consideration. This happens with every class though so I suppose its to be expected.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
Sounds like its performing on par with other classes to me rather than being overpowered. Its not until I start doing dungeons that I take much damage with any class (and I have played them all to 60), so this sounds normal.
It is hard to say what the designers intend it to do, the class notes give no clue unlike the other classes. So we are left to speculate. In 4E the default role for the Ranger is Striker, there is at least 1 controller build as well. So that makes it either a comparison to the GWF and TR or the CW. Now I suppose you could make the argument that GWFs do enough damage as strikers, but I don't think many would believe you; people look for CWs and TRs for DPS and are always surprised when a GWF does competitive damage with those classes (and considering I've out-damaged GWFs with a GF it's not surprising that people are surprised when my GWF is in the top of the DPS brackets).
However looking at the general play of the HR, CW seems to be about the right comparison, with slightly higher damage expected because of lowered control.
As to the Paragon Path, I thought the same thing when I first looked at it; this is a melee PP with a mostly ranged class, but the more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that the HR is supposed to be Striker/Leader(Buffing) and the Paragon Path is intended to support the buffing aspect of the class.
Given the 3 paragon paths I can see a true melee and true archer PP at later dates; this one I think is actually more Nature focused, as they wanted to highlight the primal side of rangers to start with, so people don't just think "shooty or stabby" when they look at the class, just as their description alludes to with its repeated mentions of nature/primal.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I have started seeing more quivers on the armor which is awesome, but now the bow is angled across the quiver which is not so awesome. Would be great if the bow and quiver pointed in the same direction and would reduce some of the "floating in air" look that has been much commented on.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
That is a good overall at-will assessment.
I just want to comment on electric shot, as I played quite a bit with it. It is definitely underpowered, and by a lot. It is easier to compare it now that split shot can be more consistently chained. Still, when maxed out it has a great aoe range, and it is slightly easier to use than split shot, namely in that it can be used at point blank range where split really can't. For that, it should not do as much damage as split, but it shoud do at least 85-90% of split's damage. It should never be compared to rapid shot as it is an aoe power, and a good one.
As a melee ranger I would really like the option to disable bow graphics when in melee stance, both in and out of combat.. With a perfect vorpal slotted and the rather bulky designs of the bows (which are pretty) it looks like I am carrying a neon sign on my back, and that is so very un-ranger-like. The functionality is there as the bow disappears when mounted, so it should not be a hard thing to add. Of course when in ranged stance the bow graphics would remain.
Most people here are evaluating specific powers when compared to other HR powers and to other classes' powers. People crying for general, overall buffs are few and not taken very seriously. I guess that is true of every unspecific post.
You are right in that everyone's play experience is different while leveling up. The difference narrows once you put in tens of hours at level 60 and move towards more equally powered gear. We do not all agree on everything in here, rather, we are just trying to give feedback on which powers need adjustment and why. In doing so, we try to specify what we are taking under consideration as that helps others put things in perspective.
Aimed Shot: Needs "something", either the ability to move while using it, the removal of the interrupt, or a faster animation. Damage is fine, but my preference would be the ability to move at "walking speed' while using the power *and* having the last 2/3 of the animation be uninterruptable.
Hawk Shot: Damage range is too wide 9as pointed out above) and the Hawkeye power is almost useless. Make the Hawkeye a % increase to everyone in the group, or make it do a static amount that is worth having, or make the low damage apply to more attacks. Just don't leave it as-is.
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As I have mentioned in other posts lately. There has been some slight increase but with alittle more and I feel the class will be ready. I am not calling for a big increase, just a slight increase.
zzZzzzZZzZ.... and now try to use it and ull see its not that great!
There several buffs and a class feature that say otherwise but still its my opinion. Any way the Archer Tree is Primarily ranged dps Crit tree with Melee burst why melee Burst for a ranged tree cause half the buffs in it affect your Melee skills so does the keystone Feat one feat even rely On melee skills to lower the recharge of ranged skills. I get that people don't want to go melee but that,s why you go archer if you dont want to BE a melee PRIMARY Hybrid. But your still gonna melee to get off your secondary skills when your ranged skills are on CD and to build up aspect of serpent and Agile Hunter Buffs that boost your overall DPS.
This can also be said for Combat Tree for Bloodthirsty Aspect of serpent and who Know The feature that boost dmg by 3% whenever you change stances. A Few of the best HR buffs Rely on us switching stances and i don't understand how any one can knowingly gimp there dps buy not changing stances then say the stance you only stay in needs a slight dmg buff to its skill,s to make up for laziness or lets say stubbornness on the players part.
The skill is horrible and your a sitting duck while using it thanks to the long obvious cast time and animation and even the slightest bit of dmg interrupts it.
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Theres a whole lot more to this skill than just the damage it gives.
Thats like saying how much Gloaming Cut hits, and how much it can crit. But unless you actually use the skill to know that it also is hard to hit a target with and its very slow animation time. That makes a drastic difference in the skill as a whole.
So dont paint a black and white picture about a skill without using it yourself or seeing it in action.
According to the interview. The stance switch is optional. I only take feats for ranged. I don't switch as I don't care for melee. Hunter Ranger has been said from the start it is either/or melee and ranged or you can use both if that is your play style.
I agree with the others on Aimed Shot. Unless you actually use it, saying it is overpowered is not appropriate. In PvP you probably would be lucky to get it off once.
Please tell me you put 3/3 in Agile Combatant?
If not please do so. Even if you never plan to fight in melee you can benefit from Agile Combatant. Many ranged powers have useful buffs; Commanding Shot in particular is very useful, and Binding Shot's buff is good (even if Binding needs some work).
So here is how you benefit from Agile Combatant; You come into range of the mob, you tab to melee and buff with Stag Heart, then tab back to Ranged, you now have 3% more damage for 5s, enough time for a quick spray of Split Shot or a Commanding Shot on a single thing (eg like the Maws in the Chasm). As you fight you will then tab at some stage apply a buff (Stag/Oak/Throw) and tab back for another 5s of +3%.
You never have to make a melee attack to benefit from this feat. Please use it.
As to Aimed Shot you should go 3/3 in it, but it is indeed not easy to use effectively, but there are certainly times when it works well.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Hold up But lead Combat designer Kevin Stocker said you get the most out of the class switching stances let me quote what he said
From His blog one would think the class is meant to be played hybrid to get the most out of it PvP Or PvE or to even get creative with it. But if you want to gimp your dps thats you
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You must live under a rock. You are rooted while using it, it has a 3 second cast time (2.5 with full ranks, whoopie -_-) ANY damage will interrupt it including DoTs and its easy as heck to dodge. If you ever get hit by this power it's because you are either terrible, not paying attention, or someone is the luckiest ranger alive... for about 2 more seconds anyway because after standing still for that long you're about to get facerolled anyway.
I like the rock part the most!
Anyway we should go back to topic, even so we gave like a truckload of feedback and bug reports and like NOTHING has been changed due to our feedback, only visual and audio stuff....
Feel free to try that tactic, it will not work as well as the Dev implies.
Devs often say "this is supposed to be X and do Y" then players learn that it actually "does A to do B" far better than what the Devs said in their talks about whatever it is. Devs have a narrow focus aimed at producing a particular result and limited man-hours, players seek the best result and have infinite man-hours; guess who finds the best way to utilise a game element?
That said the Ranger is optimised by switching stances, because that lets you sustain an attack longer at higher average DPS. Rangers are also more effective in a party where many of their buffs can be applied across the party to maximise party effectiveness; but you don't see that being talked up much do you?
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I didn't post the blog to point out a bad rotation i pointed it out to say the dev meant for the class to switch stances if your not switching stances as intended your gimping your dps. If i wanted to point out a rotation i wouldn't have used the horrible one mentioned in his post i would have just given you my normal ingame rotation.
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