Read the definition of Necrotic damage and you will realize how utterly fail your approval is.
GCTRL, two responses...
1) LS is the best guild on the server. To be honest, I doubt the nerf will affect your status, but it may make other teams slightly more competitive in PVP.
2) Tennys were OP, everyone knew it. Heck, tenny users knew it. Heck, some tenny users knew it and asked for a nerf! Did you honestly not see this coming?
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited October 2013
This should have been done ages ago.
I totally don't regret my investment in Tene's. They were fun while they lasted. Everyone knew how OP they were. I expected the nerf before module 1 - what took you so long?
1) LS is the best guild on the server. To be honest, I doubt the nerf will affect your status, but it may make other teams slightly more competitive in PVP.
2) Tennys were OP, everyone knew it. Heck, tenny users knew it. Heck, some tenny users knew it and asked for a nerf! Did you honestly not see this coming?
Three responses:
1) This is has nothing to do with LS, so stop bringing us up.
2) This has nothing to do with PvP.
3) This is about the devs essentially changing the definition of Necrotic damage in order to nerf a single enchant. The enchant is a real money item and by doing these changes (specifically with deflect, defense and AC) they're entering the territory of bait-and-switch (a form of fraud), something that can get you into big legal trouble (see cases involving Blizzard).
Note: I don't have Tene's (on any of my chars) and these nerfs would be a huge benefit to some of my builds, thats still not going to prevent me from looking at this situation critically instead of immediately throwing up my hands in the air in celebration.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
I dont care what it was advertised as. It was out of control the moment someone added all them up and started a build based on them.
Now I'm not by any means saying Tene users are bad. But...I am saying, alot more skill is going to have to be involved now, once/if these changes go live. You will no longer be able to use Tenes as a crutch.
They never should have made anything in this game, that ignored stats in the first place. The logic behind it is going full <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, and its about time they are "thinking" of changing it.
Even as a TR, another perfect example that comes to mind when I talk about "ignoring" anything is TR's Shocking Execution. Its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, and its a "i win button" that needs to be reworked.
We've been looking at the Tenebrous Enchant some more, and we have a few changes in the works that should be going to preview pretty soon. We've talked about various ideas on what to do, but this is what we've decided to look at first:
Currently, Tenebrous ignores three things that it is not supposed to ignore: Damage Resistance (from AC and Defense, mostly), Deflection, and Shift-Dodges (like the Trickster Rogue roll and Control Wizard teleport). It will no longer ignore these three things. This means the damage it deals will go down as you'll now be able to resist the damage, Deflect stat won't be wasted against it, and if you time your Shifts right, you can avoid the damage.
We'll be monitoring the change on Preview, and looking to see if it has the desired result.
I've seen alot of Lemonade Stand members rage quit in the first 45 seconds of losing #2 node, as well as quite a fiew other "top guilds", since the server merge.
I dont believe there is one "single" Best Guild persay. But many Top guilds that can go either way.
Maybe the best A Team?....sure....Best Guild? I dont think there is one..
Read the definition of Necrotic damage and you will realize how utterly fail your approval is.
Necrotic (damage) is simply an element in 4E. Neither it nor arcane damage is supposed to ignore defenses despite the various things in the game that do. Other enchants such as Lifedrinker, Terror, etc. that have necrotic damage on the tooltip do not work the same way that tenebrous does.
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werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
Well it's good that they realized it's bugged but even then it will still be ridiculous. If they really want to fix it all they have to do is make it so they don't stack.
Lemonade Stand guys in this thread are undercutting your own stance. You say you haven't 'paid to win' and yet you say you have to pay for tenembrous. If tenembrous are unbalanced, balancing them affects everybody the same since this game is not, and never was supposed to be pay to win. Or are you contradicting this?
I have no sympathy for people that paid real money for something that is only useful in pvp so that they could gain an advantage and create broken builds for the sake of stroking their epeen against people that don't pay to win.
Your not better because you better , your better because you paid money to be better.. In a game
I'm happy for those who are happy, and i am sad for those who spent 100s of dollars on something that has been changed twice and is now going to be as useless as a tranquil enchantment.
Good luck with the legal blowback from this.
No need for quotes anymore. Lost City's eyes are wide open now. Thank god!b:victory
I don't even use Tene's and I can already see how this could be way too much of a nerf. The dodge fix is necessary and totally reasonable. But when you go past that you're basically redefining what necrotic damage means. It's false advertisement and I suspect PWE will run into some legal trouble here because Tene's are essentially a real money item. People spent real money for keys to open boxes that had Tenes, those Tenes have a specific use that revolves around the function of necrotic damage (which by definition is true/pure damage: damage that cannot be mitigated). After the dodge fix is implemented the dev's need to tread lightly with any further changes.
If anything this is a fix. Do other necrotic enchants bypass soulforge like tenebrous? To my knowledge they don't. The bottom line is these enchants should have never made it into the game.
heh they have painted themselves into a corner (the devs). If they nerf it enough to make pvp fair, the folks that bought their gear will be mad. If they make the best enchantments easier to get, they will still be mad. If they leave it as-is, the non pay to play folks will be frustrated with pvp. I do not care (pvp is not my thing) but this is going to be interesting to watch -- its like watching someone try to build a perpetual motion machine, you know whatever they do will not go over well. The only fix I see is raise the level cap, make the new top gear for pvp available without spending money, and start over.
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realboMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Lemonade Stand guys in this thread are undercutting your own stance. You say you haven't 'paid to win' and yet you say you have to pay for tenembrous. If tenembrous are unbalanced, balancing them affects everybody the same since this game is not, and never was supposed to be pay to win. Or are you contradicting this?
Necrotic damage cannot be mitigated, Tenebrouses do necrotic damage.
"Tenebrous ignores three things that it is not supposed to ignore:" - Lead Systems Designer
No, they don't, they do exactly what Necrotic damage does, not just on tenebrouses, but on every item/enchant that has the Necrotic Damage stat. This quote/change is a complete contradiction to itself.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Well, you do what you have to do devs, I WILL HAVE TO DO WHAT I HAVE TO DO TOO. You see, i'm not like most of the ppl here rocking 7 tenes that exploited and saved hundreds of millions....i actually payed for my stuff, and payed WELL.
I'll wait to see if this goes live, the minute it does, the next minute i'll be on the phone to my bank. We'll see what happens. Either you lose money, or you lose the CHANCE at more.
Lets see.
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
lol ehh i dont mind i have one normal i jsut put together and put on my GWF for pve since i do not do pvp with her. will see how it does worst case i will just add some more armor penetration.
It's a really bad time to be a sent regen gwf.
You know whats going to happen right? After the tene nerf is implemented, and tr's seem to not be able to burst a gwf down?
Well i assume you're intelligent enough to predict what's going to happen next.
No need for quotes anymore. Lost City's eyes are wide open now. Thank god!b:victory
If anything this is a fix. Do other necrotic enchants bypass soulforge like tenebrous? To my knowledge they don't.
The dodge change is reasonable and necessary, the soulforge problem should be changed as well. Because soulforge has a definition and purpose as well that needs to be taken into account. I'm specifically talking about defense, AC, and deflect, which have no influence on Necrotic damage (that is the very definition of Necrotic damage)
The bottom line is these enchants should have never made it into the game.
Doesn't matter what should or shouldnt have happened. They were put into the game and people spent money on them. Money I will remind you, that has to be earned somewhere. Tenes are essentially real money items, things you could only get from a box that needed to be opened with a key that costs Zen.
Again, I don't even have any Tenes on any of my chars and I can see the problems that will arise with changes like these.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
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traxsuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 51
Necrotic damage cannot be mitigated, Tenebrouses do necrotic damage.
"Tenebrous ignores three things that it is not supposed to ignore:" - Lead Systems Designer
No, they don't, they do exactly what Necrotic damage does, not just on tenebrouses, but on every item/enchant that has the Necrotic Damage stat. This quote/change is a complete contradiction to itself.
Honestly, if they really want to accommodate the people who got ripped off they should just refund the enchantments or allow you to trade them in for another equivalent one.
sounds good i think and fair.
guess I am switching to arm pLOL
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
1) This is has nothing to do with LS, so stop bringing us up.
2) This has nothing to do with PvP.
3) This is about the devs essentially changing the definition of Necrotic damage in order to nerf a single enchant. The enchant is a real money item and by doing these changes (specifically with deflect, defense and AC) they're entering the territory of bait-and-switch (a form of fraud), something that can get you into big legal trouble (see cases involving Blizzard).
Note: I don't have Tene's (on any of my chars) and these nerfs would be a huge benefit to some of my builds, thats still not going to prevent me from looking at this situation critically instead of immediately throwing up my hands in the air in celebration.
I agree with that post.
However, i always thought that tenebrous bypassing deflect/dodge/dr and especially soulforged seemed like a broken mechanic to me.
its like some failure int he coding, devs forgot to propely edit the code of the enchant and it ignored stuff that it wasnt suppused to do.
some other necrotic enchants dont ignoreo stuff like tenes, so it makes sense.
but if they DO FIX these, i am afraid tenes wont be able to keep up with others enchants 10s, like darks. and this is ap roblem. because as you mentioned..., tenes are real money enchant.
so they should boost the dmg maybe slightly or reduce cooldown a little bit.
there are many other broken mechanics in the game
for example, lifedrinker:
sometimes you deflect your own healing (o_o).
Rare times you deflect your own potion.
when you use restoring strike as gwf, and you crit, the "crit healing, crits you" and if you have student of sword you debuff your own defense.
i believe such as these, tenes bypassing all stuff is a failure in the coding of the game. probably stuff easy to fix
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
It's fine, I am glad they are nerfing them.
It means I have a reason along with the **** loads of others who spent more than most on this game have a reason to leave, in doing so it will be there undoing and I will get this warm fuzzy feeling inside knowing that while I am still working and doing well for myself, those idiots who actually made this stupid decision, without bothering to look at revenue figures/ the amount of money those who have tenes spend on the game compared to the tiny % whinging will be removed from there position once they loses a shed load more money.
Remember why there have been loads left already? Yes, the nerfs that were made that affected the majority in pve that were based around a non existent pvp class balance system, in a non pvp game!
These are the people who claimed lesser Tranquil would be looked Into as its been the biggest load of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, yet they don't even buff it or talk about that.
They just bring out a new lockbox after it was a total failure yet people spent loads on that.
Make sure the last one out remembers to turn the lights off plz!
Cryptic aren't about listening, they are just about knee jerk reactions that like in other games, have cost them dearly.
When as a free to play game you make money from people buying coins, what do you think people spend coins on Einsteins?
Comments
GCTRL, two responses...
1) LS is the best guild on the server. To be honest, I doubt the nerf will affect your status, but it may make other teams slightly more competitive in PVP.
2) Tennys were OP, everyone knew it. Heck, tenny users knew it. Heck, some tenny users knew it and asked for a nerf! Did you honestly not see this coming?
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
lol what is the definition
OO i read your other post.. where is that defined. curious
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
I totally don't regret my investment in Tene's. They were fun while they lasted. Everyone knew how OP they were. I expected the nerf before module 1 - what took you so long?
Three responses:
1) This is has nothing to do with LS, so stop bringing us up.
2) This has nothing to do with PvP.
3) This is about the devs essentially changing the definition of Necrotic damage in order to nerf a single enchant. The enchant is a real money item and by doing these changes (specifically with deflect, defense and AC) they're entering the territory of bait-and-switch (a form of fraud), something that can get you into big legal trouble (see cases involving Blizzard).
Note: I don't have Tene's (on any of my chars) and these nerfs would be a huge benefit to some of my builds, thats still not going to prevent me from looking at this situation critically instead of immediately throwing up my hands in the air in celebration.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Now I'm not by any means saying Tene users are bad. But...I am saying, alot more skill is going to have to be involved now, once/if these changes go live. You will no longer be able to use Tenes as a crutch.
They never should have made anything in this game, that ignored stats in the first place. The logic behind it is going full <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, and its about time they are "thinking" of changing it.
Even as a TR, another perfect example that comes to mind when I talk about "ignoring" anything is TR's Shocking Execution. Its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, and its a "i win button" that needs to be reworked.
^ This. This should be everyone's answer. Right here. Then, maybe, Cash Shop would go nonexistent and we'd get adsense *crosses fingers*
Quoted from > http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?497531-How-To-Guide-on-how-to-Deal-with-Tenes/page5
I've seen alot of Lemonade Stand members rage quit in the first 45 seconds of losing #2 node, as well as quite a fiew other "top guilds", since the server merge.
I dont believe there is one "single" Best Guild persay. But many Top guilds that can go either way.
Maybe the best A Team?....sure....Best Guild? I dont think there is one..
Necrotic (damage) is simply an element in 4E. Neither it nor arcane damage is supposed to ignore defenses despite the various things in the game that do. Other enchants such as Lifedrinker, Terror, etc. that have necrotic damage on the tooltip do not work the same way that tenebrous does.
Your not better because you better , your better because you paid money to be better.. In a game
Game...
Couldn't be more wrong. It has everything to do with PvP. It is the easily the most overpowered enchant that is pretty much only used in PvP.
Good luck with the legal blowback from this.
If anything this is a fix. Do other necrotic enchants bypass soulforge like tenebrous? To my knowledge they don't. The bottom line is these enchants should have never made it into the game.
Necrotic damage cannot be mitigated, Tenebrouses do necrotic damage.
"Tenebrous ignores three things that it is not supposed to ignore:" - Lead Systems Designer
No, they don't, they do exactly what Necrotic damage does, not just on tenebrouses, but on every item/enchant that has the Necrotic Damage stat. This quote/change is a complete contradiction to itself.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
I'll wait to see if this goes live, the minute it does, the next minute i'll be on the phone to my bank. We'll see what happens. Either you lose money, or you lose the CHANCE at more.
Lets see.
Legal?! HA
Good luck with that.
You know whats going to happen right? After the tene nerf is implemented, and tr's seem to not be able to burst a gwf down?
Well i assume you're intelligent enough to predict what's going to happen next.
The dodge change is reasonable and necessary, the soulforge problem should be changed as well. Because soulforge has a definition and purpose as well that needs to be taken into account. I'm specifically talking about defense, AC, and deflect, which have no influence on Necrotic damage (that is the very definition of Necrotic damage)
Doesn't matter what should or shouldnt have happened. They were put into the game and people spent money on them. Money I will remind you, that has to be earned somewhere. Tenes are essentially real money items, things you could only get from a box that needed to be opened with a key that costs Zen.
Again, I don't even have any Tenes on any of my chars and I can see the problems that will arise with changes like these.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Honestly, if they really want to accommodate the people who got ripped off they should just refund the enchantments or allow you to trade them in for another equivalent one.
guess I am switching to arm pLOL
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
However, i always thought that tenebrous bypassing deflect/dodge/dr and especially soulforged seemed like a broken mechanic to me.
its like some failure int he coding, devs forgot to propely edit the code of the enchant and it ignored stuff that it wasnt suppused to do.
some other necrotic enchants dont ignoreo stuff like tenes, so it makes sense.
but if they DO FIX these, i am afraid tenes wont be able to keep up with others enchants 10s, like darks. and this is ap roblem. because as you mentioned..., tenes are real money enchant.
so they should boost the dmg maybe slightly or reduce cooldown a little bit.
there are many other broken mechanics in the game
for example, lifedrinker:
sometimes you deflect your own healing (o_o).
Rare times you deflect your own potion.
when you use restoring strike as gwf, and you crit, the "crit healing, crits you" and if you have student of sword you debuff your own defense.
i believe such as these, tenes bypassing all stuff is a failure in the coding of the game. probably stuff easy to fix
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
It means I have a reason along with the **** loads of others who spent more than most on this game have a reason to leave, in doing so it will be there undoing and I will get this warm fuzzy feeling inside knowing that while I am still working and doing well for myself, those idiots who actually made this stupid decision, without bothering to look at revenue figures/ the amount of money those who have tenes spend on the game compared to the tiny % whinging will be removed from there position once they loses a shed load more money.
Remember why there have been loads left already? Yes, the nerfs that were made that affected the majority in pve that were based around a non existent pvp class balance system, in a non pvp game!
These are the people who claimed lesser Tranquil would be looked Into as its been the biggest load of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, yet they don't even buff it or talk about that.
They just bring out a new lockbox after it was a total failure yet people spent loads on that.
Make sure the last one out remembers to turn the lights off plz!
Cryptic aren't about listening, they are just about knee jerk reactions that like in other games, have cost them dearly.
When as a free to play game you make money from people buying coins, what do you think people spend coins on Einsteins?
/Golf clap at your stupidity