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Righteousness

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  • faeriestormfaeriestorm Member Posts: 460 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    uri92 wrote: »
    I don't have any prob with my own survivability, BUT I have end gear.
    On the other hand, it is VERY frustrating to PVP as a low geared Cleric, because of that Righteousness.

    I am not claiming that Clerics are weak because I am weak, but because low geared ones are utter <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
    Any other class can do better with the same gear level, especially rogues.

    That's very funny how you claim yourself to be the best and all, and call your guildies to tell us that you pwnZ, but anyway, we don't give a f*ck. Do you know any of us ? No.
    Pretending you rox and we sux is kinda what you have been doing on 3 or 4 pages now, claiming that you are the boss who know how to play cleric, and we all sux because we don't use "your OP build".

    I spend most of my in-game time in PVP and I have no lesson to take from a moron claiming that only his build and gear is the one to go as a cleric and all others are nubs who don't know how to exploit the gear and the stats.

    Oh and btw, next time try to not exploit the quests also, that way you won't get hit by the banhammer.

    This is so true. Clerics can often function once they get really geared up, but before that you would be better off taking say another CW or something.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • abell39abell39 Member Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    This is so true. Clerics can often function once they get really geared up, but before that you would be better off taking say another CW or something.

    True to a large extent in PvE also. I'm having a much easier time now that I'm finally level 60 and can equip my War Prophet set (that I snatched off the AH before it went BoP), but at level 59 with a mix of blues and greens, I was lunch for most everything if I wasn't overleveled for the area I was in. I don't want to think of how hard it would be if I actually had to work for that gear from PvPing.
    Kerensa Loreweaver, level 60 DC | Rilla Turtledove, level 60 CW | Calvin Meriwether, level 60 TR
    Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
  • ulvielulviel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 741 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    But hey, we are OP...
    But seriously, there is absolutely no reason to nerf DC. They are on verge of playability, and yet get nerfed with every patch... What are the devs thinking?
  • faeriestormfaeriestorm Member Posts: 460 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    ulviel wrote: »
    But hey, we are OP...
    But seriously, there is absolutely no reason to nerf DC. They are on verge of playability, and yet get nerfed with every patch... What are the devs thinking?

    I have no idea, but they need to fix the cleric class fast. I'm almost at the point where I'm tempted to do runs on my alts without a cleric. Probably be more efficient you know?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • abell39abell39 Member Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I have no idea, but they need to fix the cleric class fast. I'm almost at the point where I'm tempted to do runs on my alts without a cleric. Probably be more efficient you know?

    I ran normal on-level Cragmire Crypts once on my TR or CW (can't remember which) without a DC in the party (almost all of us had the cleric companion, others had free dog). Nobody died except to falling into spike pits. Granted, on-level CC isn't hard to begin with, but we didn't notice the lack of DC in our party at all.
    Kerensa Loreweaver, level 60 DC | Rilla Turtledove, level 60 CW | Calvin Meriwether, level 60 TR
    Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
  • ulvielulviel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 741 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Sad... DCs are dying race, GWFs also not doing well... no wonder that people want new classes, we have 3 good classes as it is now.
  • morsitansmorsitans Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,284 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    abell39 wrote: »
    I ran normal on-level Cragmire Crypts once on my TR or CW (can't remember which) without a DC in the party (almost all of us had the cleric companion, others had free dog). Nobody died except to falling into spike pits. Granted, on-level CC isn't hard to begin with, but we didn't notice the lack of DC in our party at all.

    Yeps: if you have good players who know what they're doing, don't over-aggro and play defensively (and who know when to pot), you don't really need a cleric. Hell, take enough CWs and you probably won't even get hit... :P

    The DC played as a healbot/mitigation-drone simply allows faster, lazier play for the rest of the team. Larger pulls, MOAR aggro, tons of damage encounters rather than some defensive ones, etc, because the responsibility for monitoring your own health is minimised. "They've got mah back! CHAERGE!"

    It is considerably faster, though. Not perhaps as fast as dying and respawning at campfires, admittedly....
  • faeriestormfaeriestorm Member Posts: 460 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    morsitans wrote: »
    Yeps: if you have good players who know what they're doing, don't over-aggro and play defensively (and who know when to pot), you don't really need a cleric. Hell, take enough CWs and you probably won't even get hit... :P

    The DC played as a healbot/mitigation-drone simply allows faster, lazier play for the rest of the team. Larger pulls, MOAR aggro, tons of damage encounters rather than some defensive ones, etc, because the responsibility for monitoring your own health is minimised. "They've got mah back! CHAERGE!"

    It is considerably faster, though. Not perhaps as fast as dying and respawning at campfires, admittedly....

    New challenge, Let's try completing ever dungeon without a cleric and every dungeon with all of one class. Epic difficulty of course!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rabbinicusrabbinicus Member Posts: 1,822 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    New challenge, Let's try completing ever dungeon without a cleric and every dungeon with all of one class. Epic difficulty of course!

    5 permastealth TR's FTW. :)
    The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.


  • faeriestormfaeriestorm Member Posts: 460 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    rabbinicus wrote: »
    5 permastealth TR's FTW. :)

    Or 5 DC, 5 CW, 5 GF, 5 GWF? XD

    then a party of other classes say 1 TR 2 CW 1 GWF 1 GF?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • oronessoroness Member Posts: 378 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    5 Divine Searing Lights would clean a whole room in like 2 seconds.
    O.o
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I want this class in NW. :o
  • cribstaxxxcribstaxxx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,300 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    My DC hit 60 on Friday, yay heh. So I found out that I was mistaken on healing word, and that is an awesome encounter. My bad on the 2nd hand info.

    As soon as my cleric hit 60 I outfitted him in full blue's with power/crit/regen for under 10k (except for weapon/offhand which were about 20k each as market prices are insane right now) and I do incredibly well at pvp. I stay alive extremely long and keep my party alive easily even when focused by 3 enemies.

    Even as a fresh 60 with very little gear I can see where I would be nearly unkillable vs same GS enemies (I am only at 9.2k with these blues on and have been doing well vs 12k+ enemies) without righteous.

    On a side note I always found cleric boring when questing and I didn't think I'd enjoy him at 60. However now that I've done a couple dungeons for my T2 it's actually very fun to play. You don't have to worry about anything except your cd's and party health heh, really nice to just chill for the most part in dungeon.
    Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
    We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
  • morsitansmorsitans Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,284 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    It's worth noting that equipping full blue regen gear is a tactic adopted to circumvent the problems righteousness presents. It won't get "even better" if you equip full purps, it'll get worse.
  • cribstaxxxcribstaxxx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,300 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    morsitans wrote: »
    It's worth noting that equipping full blue regen gear is a tactic adopted to circumvent the problems righteousness presents. It won't get "even better" if you equip full purps, it'll get worse.

    I am going to wait until I have my complete T2 set to unequip blue items, but then it is a matter of equipping full defensive jewelry/accessories so that my increased healing amount (especially with high crit and a vorpal) + my greatly increased defense will sustain me much better than my regen gear did.

    I currently have very low defense and am vulnerable to very high geared enemies or P. vorpal Gtene TR's. Once I obtain 47-50% damage reduction and 26k+ HP I will be able to sustain myself much easier vs. stronger opponents. That is easily obtainable DR with feated foresight btw.
    Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
    We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
  • morsitansmorsitans Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,284 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Not sure how much vorp will help, since mitigation (and astral shield) don't crit. You'll get some nice repurpose souls and HWs (though with a 40% tax), but losing the regen is quite a blow: a decent amount of your time (if playing non-idiots) will be spent either flying through the air, lying on your backside, or hovering while clutching your throat, all while being whaled on by a ton of dudes, often immediately after being knocked out of your shield, or after it's expired: regen really helps pull you through those bits. The alternative for a non-regen build is to stick an anticipatory self-HW on so you have heals ticking while you're helpless, but that requires good anticipation and a spare HW charge, whereas regen requires no input whatsoever.
  • cribstaxxxcribstaxxx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,300 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    morsitans wrote: »
    Not sure how much vorp will help, since mitigation (and astral shield) don't crit. You'll get some nice repurpose souls and HWs (though with a 40% tax), but losing the regen is quite a blow: a decent amount of your time (if playing non-idiots) will be spent either flying through the air, lying on your backside, or hovering while clutching your throat, all while being whaled on by a ton of dudes, often immediately after being knocked out of your shield, or after it's expired: regen really helps pull you through those bits. The alternative for a non-regen build is to stick an anticipatory self-HW on so you have heals ticking while you're helpless, but that requires good anticipation and a spare HW charge, whereas regen requires no input whatsoever.

    Perhaps you somehow end up with amazing enemies and incompetant teammates every match? 1 GF + 1 of any DPS can keep the enemies off of me (even 3-4 of them) enough for me to heal. They chase me constantly and I get 100% stamina regen when crit, either healed or temp hp when crit can't remember, free temp hp at low health, + the regen + AS + the healing I am also recieving from HW and Sunburst/bastion/FF (whatever I use in 3rd spot, been trying different things)

    All that is wayyy more than enough for my team to come out on top, kill enemies without dieing, and by the time they respawn and are back for round 2 all my CD's are back and with the point already in our possession it's much easier to heal from the back while my team stops them from charging me. The fact that you get horrible teammates doesn't mean the DC class is weak. I will be even more powerful with > defense and HP because I won't be as easily focused when I'm on my own. Regen is only useful in longer engagements.

    Also DC is actually really fun to play in pvp heh, Everyone does target me but with all the escapes and added survivability we have through feats that's what I want them to do really.
    Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
    We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
  • faeriestormfaeriestorm Member Posts: 460 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    So you want the righteous tree to be the only viable one in PvP and with terrible blue gear at that. Good way to lose players. All paragon paths should be equally viable for PvP and PvE (just different playstyles you know?)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cribstaxxxcribstaxxx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,300 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    So you want the righteous tree to be the only viable one in PvP and with terrible blue gear at that. Good way to lose players. All paragon paths should be equally viable for PvP and PvE (just different playstyles you know?)

    Um did you read beyond the first sentence? I said that once I get the full T2 I will be upgrading to it and have a huge boost in my performance. The correct T2 and epics are much greater than blue's, but I just hit 60 and didn't want to spend a ton on my DC.

    Every class but TR has a "best" spec for PvP, so what? In a domination setting survivability is as important as damage/healing. Lol what if you brought a Prot GF to pvp? People are going to call you a giant ****, are they wrong? heh
    Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
    We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
  • faeriestormfaeriestorm Member Posts: 460 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    cribstaxxx wrote: »
    Um did you read beyond the first sentence? I said that once I get the full T2 I will be upgrading to it and have a huge boost in my performance. The correct T2 and epics are much greater than blue's, but I just hit 60 and didn't want to spend a ton on my DC.

    Every class but TR has a "best" spec for PvP, so what? In a domination setting survivability is as important as damage/healing. Lol what if you brought a Prot GF to pvp? People are going to call you a giant ****, are they wrong? heh

    I'm not talking about a "best" spec, I'm talking about a viable one. Yes I read your whole post. Higher defense in PvP means nothign when your opponents stack armour pen. Regen is what can save a cleric and only regen with is not on any of their gear because a class that can heal shouldn't need regen. They should get the full healing from their spells. The existence of righteousness came about simply because they were using less potions then any other class, no other reason.

    Clerics are terrible weak and need a buff, but I don't expect you to understand this because you are grabbing unintuitive stats just to get by and think everything is fine.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cribstaxxxcribstaxxx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,300 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    I'm not talking about a "best" spec, I'm talking about a viable one. Yes I read your whole post. Higher defense in PvP means nothign when your opponents stack armour pen. Regen is what can save a cleric and only regen with is not on any of their gear because a class that can heal shouldn't need regen. They should get the full healing from their spells. The existence of righteousness came about simply because they were using less potions then any other class, no other reason.

    Clerics are terrible weak and need a buff, but I don't expect you to understand this because you are grabbing unintuitive stats just to get by and think everything is fine.

    Wow lol, so you have all the answers huh? defense/deflect/hp is not viable over regen you say? come pvp with us. Watch our cleric tank 3 for 30 seconds until backup arrives and kills your 3 outright with his team at 100% health. What you are saying is that YOU couldn't do well with defense so no one can. There is no such thing as 50% ArP, and cleric can reach 51% defense. then deflect is calculated after defense so thats 76% on a deflect.

    Not to mention the big heals that they can achieve even on themselves with good crit + vorpal. Please don't act like you have all the answers when you've never even seen a great cleric
    Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
    We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
  • faeriestormfaeriestorm Member Posts: 460 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    cribstaxxx wrote: »
    Wow lol, so you have all the answers huh? defense/deflect/hp is not viable over regen you say? come pvp with us. Watch our cleric tank 3 for 30 seconds until backup arrives and kills your 3 outright with his team at 100% health. What you are saying is that YOU couldn't do well with defense so no one can. There is no such thing as 50% ArP, and cleric can reach 51% defense. then deflect is calculated after defense so thats 76% on a deflect.

    Not to mention the big heals that they can achieve even on themselves with good crit + vorpal. Please don't act like you have all the answers when you've never even seen a great cleric

    Not talking about high end gear or those using enchants or specific builds. Also alot of that is also teamwork and communication of a good team. But since you play premades I wouldn't expect you to understand.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • whistlingdixiewhistlingdixie Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    cribstaxxx wrote: »
    Wow lol, so you have all the answers huh? defense/deflect/hp is not viable over regen you say? come pvp with us. Watch our cleric tank 3 for 30 seconds until backup arrives and kills your 3 outright with his team at 100% health. What you are saying is that YOU couldn't do well with defense so no one can. There is no such thing as 50% ArP, and cleric can reach 51% defense. then deflect is calculated after defense so thats 76% on a deflect.

    Not to mention the big heals that they can achieve even on themselves with good crit + vorpal. Please don't act like you have all the answers when you've never even seen a great cleric

    Please post a Youtube video showing these scenes from a few matches. I think you're spouting off <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that you made up.
  • yokihiroyokihiro Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 510 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    a class that needs the best gear available to be competitive while other classes can be mid-par and still can do very good just shows how inbalanced this system is. i find it funny that ppl always come with dcs they or others play that have the best gear and best enchants and and then "they can stay alive forever... so the dc is a great class". yeah hooray on those that have no job to grind all day or such a good job to spend money in such a game. classes should be playable even if not maxed out.

    the 40% less heal on himself is the dumbest thing i have ever seen so far in any mmo. in other mmos healers normally can survive almost against any class in 1vs1 but are most likely not able to kill the other one, too. it would take too long so the other would just snare you and run away. but that is how a healer should work. healers should be hard to take down 1vs1. if you want to make it balanced then, you need to bring abilities on other classes that reduce heal output or something similar. it all works! in other games at least.
  • cribstaxxxcribstaxxx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,300 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Please post a Youtube video showing these scenes from a few matches. I think you're spouting off <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that you made up.

    I have not personally done any video recording (big **** at that stuff heh) but there are a bunch in my guild that do that, I'll try to put something together and post it tonight.
    Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
    We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
  • faeriestormfaeriestorm Member Posts: 460 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    yokihiro wrote: »
    a class that needs the best gear available to be competitive while other classes can be mid-par and still can do very good just shows how inbalanced this system is. i find it funny that ppl always come with dcs they or others play that have the best gear and best enchants and and then "they can stay alive forever... so the dc is a great class". yeah hooray on those that have no job to grind all day or such a good job to spend money in such a game. classes should be playable even if not maxed out.

    the 40% less heal on himself is the dumbest thing i have ever seen so far in any mmo. in other mmos healers normally can survive almost against any class in 1vs1 but are most likely not able to kill the other one, too. it would take too long so the other would just snare you and run away. but that is how a healer should work. healers should be hard to take down 1vs1. if you want to make it balanced then, you need to bring abilities on other classes that reduce heal output or something similar. it all works! in other games at least.

    Yay someone who understands!

    Seriously though, every other class can get by in mid-level gear (maybe not great but still) but not clerics, they need very specific specs and gear to even have a chance.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • troljtrolj Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 3
    edited September 2013
    cribstaxxx wrote: »
    Wow lol, so you have all the answers huh? defense/deflect/hp is not viable over regen you say? come pvp with us. Watch our cleric tank 3 for 30 seconds until backup arrives and kills your 3 outright with his team at 100% health. What you are saying is that YOU couldn't do well with defense so no one can. There is no such thing as 50% ArP, and cleric can reach 51% defense. then deflect is calculated after defense so thats 76% on a deflect.

    Not to mention the big heals that they can achieve even on themselves with good crit + vorpal. Please don't act like you have all the answers when you've never even seen a great cleric

    Defence is a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> stat in PvP (good in PvE) since everyone and their mother (TRs lol) stack arm. pen.. So that leaves us with regen/ deflect and HP. Deflect and regen are hard stats to stack, especially for DCs since no T2 set has them, back to the square one and blue items to circumvent Righteousness. But hey you are the guy that is convinced DCs do not need a buff, or removal from Righteousness in first place and TRs are fine lols... Yep we play different games. P.s. DC needs good and i mean good gear to be playable in PvP, playable and viable are two different things BTW. You can even enjoy it with good gear. PvP on DC with semi good gear how ever is like pulling teeth without anesthetics, can be done but is hell of a lot painfull.
  • morsitansmorsitans Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,284 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Plus of course saying "no such thing as 50% arpen" doesn't mean that "all arpen is zero", so that 51% defense could easily be brought down to 27% or so by a even a PvE-geared melee class. More if they've stacked arpen beyond the PvE cap. Which if they're a PvP dedicated char, they almost certainly have done.

    A TR could still one-shot you through 27% defense, unless you stack HP, and even then they'll take you very low in one or two hits. Annnd.....this is where regen is wonderful.
  • asynchritusasynchritus Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    The highest I can get my defense up with epic gear is 1764. Am I missing something?

    Using:

    Anchient Brawler's Necklace of Guts
    2x Ancient Priest's Rings of Burning Light
    Ancient necro belt of undeath
    nightmare icon
    Ancient Royal Priest's Symbol
    Gemmed shirt and pants
  • whistlingdixiewhistlingdixie Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    The highest I can get my defense up with epic gear is 1764. Am I missing something?

    Using:

    Anchient Brawler's Necklace of Guts
    2x Ancient Priest's Rings of Burning Light
    Ancient necro belt of undeath
    nightmare icon
    Ancient Royal Priest's Symbol
    Gemmed shirt and pants

    You should have five Defense enchants: Armor, Pants, Belt, Ring, Ring. With even just Rank 6 Azure, those plus the first boon should be +1000. Another +616 from your rings, belt, and neck. Pants and shirt give +144. T2 DC armor gives +990. That's a total of 2750 with nothing terribly special gearing for full defense.
  • cribstaxxxcribstaxxx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,300 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    trolj wrote: »
    Defence is a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> stat in PvP (good in PvE) since everyone and their mother (TRs lol) stack arm. pen.. So that leaves us with regen/ deflect and HP. Deflect and regen are hard stats to stack, especially for DCs since no T2 set has them, back to the square one and blue items to circumvent Righteousness. But hey you are the guy that is convinced DCs do not need a buff, or removal from Righteousness in first place and TRs are fine lols... Yep we play different games. P.s. DC needs good and i mean good gear to be playable in PvP, playable and viable are two different things BTW. You can even enjoy it with good gear. PvP on DC with semi good gear how ever is like pulling teeth without anesthetics, can be done but is hell of a lot painfull.

    I play PvP with my 9.1k DC daily and enjoy it a lot. Of course I wouldn't take him in a premade vs premade but he isn't geared yet, vs pugs he does absolutely fine though. Defense is not <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> when you have 51% damage reduction... My friend switched back to defense enchants over tranquils b/c they are much better vs geared teams.

    @ mortisans: so at -27% damage TR has to crit for ~40k to do 24-25k damage, please post SS of TR critting for 40 on training dummy with no debuffs. I'll give you a hint, even with P. vorpal, 7gtene's all proccing, and lurkers it won't happen. Also with that setup your ArP is only going to be ~20-21%. Regen is garbage vs. raw damage mitigation when you can heal yourself to full in seconds, you merely have to live long enough for enemies to be killed. Regen is currently what I use vs. pugs and even some mediocre players can still burst me down quite easily with regen and low defenses.

    @ asynchritus: for 51% you need ~3250 this requires enchants. Also there is a defense slot necklace that is class specific fyi.

    Here's the deal, I realize that DC is not overpowered or even very strong at all without teamwork. But I am here to tell you that even vs. some of the best geared and pvp specced players in game cleric can be extremely strong in the right gear. So to remove righteousness would make certain ones way too strong.

    Just like cryptic nerfed all GWF's b/c the 3% of top ones we're nearly unkillable, I'm just telling you righteousness isn't going anywhere for pvp at least, just so you know.
    Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
    We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
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