If you prefer more DPS then you can definitely switch out points as you deem necessary... This build definitely isn't the be all/end all of Sentinel theorycrafting! I just went with all the 'defensive' feats as I wanted to see how they ended up working out, and thus far they have been fine to me so I am not complaining. Though I do understand the desire to want to put out more DPS...
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
In terms of dailies, if they fix the Slam thingy you mentioned, would you still max that or go for Avalanche instead? I feel Avalanche is quite useful at the moment.
Is the wicked strike At will worse than the Sure Strike one? It hits more than 1 target and usually I find myself fighting more than 1 anyway. Would it be worthwhile to max both?
I'm also thinking leaving Takedown at 2 rather than 3 points since you usually don't tend to miss with it and that little bit of extra damage doesn't seem to be worth it?
After I posted earlier, I was searching the Forum Re Constitution focus and supposedly its diminishing returns if you have a high base CON and it does NOT increase HP?
After I posted earlier, I was searching the Forum Re Constitution focus and supposedly its diminishing returns if you have a high base CON and it does NOT increase HP?
Can you link a post about this, please?
Because if true this would make Constitution Focus much less worthy of placing three points in.
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
Might have been outdated.
I tested it on Preview just now and had 7640 HP with 19 CON and 3 in Constitution Focus.
With 19 CON and no focus I have 7449 HP.
So it does give bonus HP.
Also, if I were to skill BOTH Con focus as well as Toughness, I would have 8373 HP
In terms of dailies, if they fix the Slam thingy you mentioned, would you still max that or go for Avalanche instead? I feel Avalanche is quite useful at the moment.
I would, most definitely, remain with Slam as it is one of our highest damage Daily's (AoE, but still good) and it remains active no matter if you're knocked prone or CC'd. Basically uninterruptable, and you continue to attack/use encounters/at wills/etc. while it is active.
Is the wicked strike At will worse than the Sure Strike one? It hits more than 1 target and usually I find myself fighting more than 1 anyway. Would it be worthwhile to max both?
Weapon Master Strike is my 'AoE' At Will as it increases damage for Sure Strike, and Sure Strike benefits from the Sentinel feat Grudge Style for increased Critical and Threat generation.
I'm also thinking leaving Takedown at 2 rather than 3 points since you usually don't tend to miss with it and that little bit of extra damage doesn't seem to be worth it?
Takedown is one of my go to Encounters for PvP so I maxed it out.
After I posted earlier, I was searching the Forum Re Constitution focus and supposedly its diminishing returns if you have a high base CON and it does NOT increase HP?
The posters above this answered it a bit, but it is something to look into for sure!
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
I figured I should stop hijacking your thread and make my own
I'm very interested in this build. What gear would you recommend for leveling? All classes live and die by their gear choices, but I never know what stats are most important. So should low level GWF's focus on Power, Defense, Regen....or something else?
I'm very interested in this build. What gear would you recommend for leveling? All classes live and die by their gear choices, but I never know what stats are most important. So should low level GWF's focus on Power, Defense, Regen....or something else?
Ar Pen, Crit and Regen were super easy to level with no downtime and good damage. Power will come from your weapon and that will be enough to level with.
I'm very interested in this build. What gear would you recommend for leveling? All classes live and die by their gear choices, but I never know what stats are most important. So should low level GWF's focus on Power, Defense, Regen....or something else?
As Veleria partially stated, I believe the most important stat would be Regen... Now this is if you DON'T get the Cleric Companion at level 15/16 and/or choose a different one. Regen is important simply to save you money/time on potions(!), something that can be uber annoying to deal with.
Either way, Regen should be in your top 3 spots of what gear stat to increase, and ArmPen/Crit should be the other two. Hope that helps, and any other questions simply fire away!
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mackdajackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited August 2013
@Kolatmaster: I'd like to try out your build. I've been running a destroyer build and am tired of competing with TR's at what they do best. What are you using for offensive enchants? I figure Darks on defensive and utility slots. Also, what stats are you prioritizing on your Stone of Allure? I figure that will provide the answer to the first question. Thanks in advance.
PS: Thanks for posting this build.
GWF thread QFT
"This HAMSTER we got now where 2dc/2cw/1tr clear epic T2 then sell the stuff on AH while we pull our puds has got to stop."
@Kolatmaster: I'd like to try out your build. I've been running a destroyer build and am tired of competing with TR's at what they do best. What are you using for offensive enchants? I figure Darks on defensive and utility slots. Also, what stats are you prioritizing on your Stone of Allure? I figure that will provide the answer to the first question. Thanks in advance.
PS: Thanks for posting this build.
Your welcome bud, no problem at all!
Currently I run 2 Azure for Crit Strike buff in my Main/Off hand. 1 Dark for Arm Pen in my Necklace, and 1 Silvery for Recovery in my shirt.
For my Ioun Stone I run a combination Silvery and Dark for Recovery/ArmPen. Hope that helps!
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mackdajackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited August 2013
Thx for the info and again, thx for posting the build. As soon as I can get the chants, I can try this out.
GWF thread QFT
"This HAMSTER we got now where 2dc/2cw/1tr clear epic T2 then sell the stuff on AH while we pull our puds has got to stop."
Thx for the info and again, thx for posting the build. As soon as I can get the chants, I can try this out.
No problem mi amigo, happy to be of service! Currently trying to update my PvP Theorycrafting and such... Should have an update shortly, and will also try to write up some PvE strategy.
Just updated the 2nd Post in this thread with my revised Tao of Disengaging PvP theorycrafting article.
I included some insight into my general strategies versus each class, and also what to do versus other GWFs. Let me know what you think, as I would love to discuss it!
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realboMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
How does this spec do in terms of holding aggro and dealing with damage in high damaging dungeons, like perhaps Spider and CN?
And is this more like a Hybrid tank build rather than a full tank build? I would assume as a tank, you would need Unstoppable Recovery from Instigator and Defiance from Sentinel for more threat, considering Slam would be up almost all the time.
How does this spec do in terms of holding aggro and dealing with damage in high damaging dungeons, like perhaps Spider and CN?
It does pretty well, you have to be on top of your game, and your team has to allow you to get first crack at the adds to initiate aggro generation. In ToS it's pretty easy, run to the push off spots all the adds want to eat you, and lightning helps generate more. CN I'd say is more difficult, but if your having an issue with threat generation you can always slot in Daring Shout which (even without the feat for it) generates a healthy amount itself.
And is this more like a Hybrid tank build rather than a full tank build? I would assume as a tank, you would need Unstoppable Recovery from Instigator and Defiance from Sentinel for more threat, considering Slam would be up almost all the time.
I would definitely classify it as an 'off-tank'/hybrid. I don't believe you need Unstoppable Recovery at all, honestly that healing would be overkill and you having more DPS would be better for you. Defiance would be nice for more threat, though I'd still keep the Destroyer spec feats I took instead for higher DPS, hence they 'hybrid' nature of the build.
Elven Tranquility - Though Elven Ferocity is tempting, my power is only 3500, so it would just be an extra 350ish damage.
Elven Rejuvenation
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realboMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
I've been playing my GWF since beta as a dps. Never capped any other character.
I must say, I've never enjoyed playing my GWF like I do now that I'm tanking as Sentinel. We can still tank as effective as GFs but offer significantly more damage. Not to mention we offer several useful debuffs. On top of this, the group is no longer burdened by having a pure dps GWF. Rather, we can tank and do damage, then bring an extra TR or CW.
I'm running a slightly different spec and stat/gear prioritization, but this thread has given me that push to finally make the switch.
I've been playing my GWF since beta as a dps. Never capped any other character.
I started out DPS myself, tested both Destroyer/Instigator pre/post patch to level 60 and ran PvP/PvE. Had my Sentinel build, LEEROY JENKINS@MakeCocktailsNotWar, since mid-May and have loved the Sentinel build since the moment I reached 60 with it.
I must say, I've never enjoyed playing my GWF like I do now that I'm tanking as Sentinel. We can still tank as effective as GFs but offer significantly more damage. Not to mention we offer several useful debuffs. On top of this, the group is no longer burdened by having a pure dps GWF. Rather, we can tank and do damage, then bring an extra TR or CW.
Some GFs specs, Conqueror specifically, can certainly out DPS us in Dungeons. Though I will say, overall, I'd generic Sentinel build is deceptively good at DPS compared to GF. Though I will admit our higher Weapon damage is a huge part. I will also say that GWFs are certainly more welcome in DDs now, much more so then before. Been a long time coming, and hard work grinding out to show what we can do, but it's starting to show dividends!
Leveling my Human GWF, 31 at the moment, using the talents you suggest but put the three extra into Steely Defense. Figured it would do the most good since my racial gives some extra defense, which in turn gives extra power! Endless Assault does look pretty good too, however... My power selection is all over the place, but I'ma wait til 60 til I buy a respec token for that.
Must say I'm having a lot of fun so far, but I am worried about grouping prospects at 60. I love the idea that I'm a tank hybrid, though it seems not too many groups feel the same way. I won't even have the benefit of being well geared, and while to my lowbie eyes Reaver's Edge is looking mighty awesome I got it for a paltry 4.5k AD so I can't be too sure... Eh, cross that bridge when I get there I suppose.
Thanks for the guide, gives me some idea of what to do and not gimp the group! Side note, how do you feel about the Savage enchants from the CTA event? Offensive gives crit and armor pen, and defensive gives life steal and max health (at a little over half the rate a full enchant would do, it seems). Worth slotting?
Just to ask, how much damage such build can do, compared to a DPS build? Since it's a tank build, should drop damage to less than half the dmg you would do as a destroyer, considering you are a tank. Should be a bit less tanky than a GF, but with a bit more damage output. The way i see it.
BTW, guess it's up to what is your playstyle, and what you enjoy the most.
The only problem that is being discussed, i think, is that once you reach very high HP (37-38k), the benefit from regeneration and unstoppable healing start to get OP, making the sentinels more tanky than they should be.
Something like 2k per tick regen plus unstoppable that at level 60 pops up quite often.
I'm testing a life steal build at level 60, with the 5% healing feat on unstoppable and the 10% heal of the 4/4 heroic duelist set. I have no enchants so right now there's a bit of regen too (24,5k hp).
Have to say that there's lots of potential. When in a fight, and dealing damage, you get a consistent and sustained healing. With a lifedrinker enchant and decent life steal stats (mine is not decent atm. May be 3,6% life steal).
Just testing, but i like exploring this class possibilities.
Leveling my Human GWF, 31 at the moment, using the talents you suggest but put the three extra into Steely Defense. Figured it would do the most good since my racial gives some extra defense, which in turn gives extra power! Endless Assault does look pretty good too, however... My power selection is all over the place, but I'ma wait til 60 til I buy a respec token for that.
Must say I'm having a lot of fun so far, but I am worried about grouping prospects at 60. I love the idea that I'm a tank hybrid, though it seems not too many groups feel the same way. I won't even have the benefit of being well geared, and while to my lowbie eyes Reaver's Edge is looking mighty awesome I got it for a paltry 4.5k AD so I can't be too sure... Eh, cross that bridge when I get there I suppose.
I'm glad you're enjoying the build thus far, and leveling can be fun (honestly I enjoyed it)! As for grouping prospects you can effectively do the GFs role, so if their isn't one you are golden there. Aside from that you can definitely roll with one just fine, as I have done numerous times. It really comes down to playing your role right, though of course a higher GS works well with that. The proposed DD changes on the Test server, if implemented, should help with you gearing up a bit faster honestly!
Thanks for the guide, gives me some idea of what to do and not gimp the group! Side note, how do you feel about the Savage enchants from the CTA event? Offensive gives crit and armor pen, and defensive gives life steal and max health (at a little over half the rate a full enchant would do, it seems). Worth slotting?
Savage Enchants, in an Offensive slot, can work fine. Just make sure you pay attention to your ArmPen so that it never drops below 23/24% (with Campire buff) while adding the ArmPen stat and your Con score together. Very important! Defensive stat wise I'd think your better with a Dark Enchant for more Lifesteal overall IMO.
Just to ask, how much damage such build can do, compared to a DPS build? Since it's a tank build, should drop damage to less than half the dmg you would do as a destroyer, considering you are a tank. Should be a bit less tanky than a GF, but with a bit more damage output. The way i see it.
It is lower DPS, but not by half, not that low at all...lol I don't have the exact PARS/ACT data, but I still finish 2nd in DPS in 95% of the parties. Sometimes even 1st, though the DPS isn't the focus of the build. I'll readily admit it definitely is lower then the Destroyer spec, obviously!
The only problem that is being discussed, i think, is that once you reach very high HP (37-38k), the benefit from regeneration and unstoppable healing start to get OP, making the sentinels more tanky than they should be.
Something like 2k per tick regen plus unstoppable that at level 60 pops up quite often.
I'm testing a life steal build at level 60, with the 5% healing feat on unstoppable and the 10% heal of the 4/4 heroic duelist set. I have no enchants so right now there's a bit of regen too (24,5k hp).
Well that would be a different build then the one above. I run 10% Lifesteal and 5% Regen currently, and I have enjoyed it/done well with it. This will only become better with the new passives from the Feywild Content, so the off-tank will become even better with this build IMO.
Have to say that there's lots of potential. When in a fight, and dealing damage, you get a consistent and sustained healing. With a lifedrinker enchant and decent life steal stats (mine is not decent atm. May be 3,6% life steal).
Just testing, but i like exploring this class possibilities.
I think Lifedrinker is a bit of an overkill... I think you're better off with GPF (if your group doesn't have one) debuff stacking or even a Lightning (Greater/Perfect) that increases your base damage by 18/20% additional. You can try it with Lifedrinker of course, no reason not too! Just saying I feel the other Enchantments lend themselves to PvE better.
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manplowMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
I like this build!
I have a lowbie Sentinel GWF myself, and was thinking of adapting him to a build like this one. My plan was to keep Daring Shout and Come And Get It slotted for regular PvE so I could keep enemies around me, but reading this it seems you can keep aggro without them. So I wanted to know, when do you use Daring Shout and Come And Get It?
Edit: While I'm here, may I suggest you submit this build to the community guide sticky? It would seem relevant.
I have a lowbie Sentinel GWF myself, and was thinking of adapting him to a build like this one. My plan was to keep Daring Shout and Come And Get It slotted for regular PvE so I could keep enemies around me, but reading this it seems you can keep aggro without them. So I wanted to know, when do you use Daring Shout and Come And Get It?
Come and Get It I will sometimes slot when I need to assist CWs/DCs with knocking things off the edge of cliffs, like in Spellplague. Daring Shout I use when I need to maintain aggro, in FH last boss or 2nd Boss in CN where I need/want to run the adds in a giant circle. They are fairly specific in use, and take using them at the right times for you to maximize them. They are not on my starting list of Encounters for PvE, but they definitely have their place at the right time.
I use the sentinel build too and I find myself more useful in PVP. Sometimes I can double kill a cw and TR. I have different sets in my bag for different situations. I use the Valiant Warlord Set when there's a GF in the team and Titan's Set for PVP/GF-less team. I might respec and try your Feat distribution.
Comments
Is the wicked strike At will worse than the Sure Strike one? It hits more than 1 target and usually I find myself fighting more than 1 anyway. Would it be worthwhile to max both?
I'm also thinking leaving Takedown at 2 rather than 3 points since you usually don't tend to miss with it and that little bit of extra damage doesn't seem to be worth it?
After I posted earlier, I was searching the Forum Re Constitution focus and supposedly its diminishing returns if you have a high base CON and it does NOT increase HP?
Can you link a post about this, please?
Because if true this would make Constitution Focus much less worthy of placing three points in.
I tested it on Preview just now and had 7640 HP with 19 CON and 3 in Constitution Focus.
With 19 CON and no focus I have 7449 HP.
So it does give bonus HP.
Also, if I were to skill BOTH Con focus as well as Toughness, I would have 8373 HP
Weapon Master Strike is my 'AoE' At Will as it increases damage for Sure Strike, and Sure Strike benefits from the Sentinel feat Grudge Style for increased Critical and Threat generation.
Takedown is one of my go to Encounters for PvP so I maxed it out.
The posters above this answered it a bit, but it is something to look into for sure!
Please help me fix my build there if you like!
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?432671-GWF-Building-Sentinel-Options-or-Going-Destroyer
Ar Pen, Crit and Regen were super easy to level with no downtime and good damage. Power will come from your weapon and that will be enough to level with.
Either way, Regen should be in your top 3 spots of what gear stat to increase, and ArmPen/Crit should be the other two. Hope that helps, and any other questions simply fire away!
PS: Thanks for posting this build.
"This HAMSTER we got now where 2dc/2cw/1tr clear epic T2 then sell the stuff on AH while we pull our puds has got to stop."
Currently I run 2 Azure for Crit Strike buff in my Main/Off hand. 1 Dark for Arm Pen in my Necklace, and 1 Silvery for Recovery in my shirt.
For my Ioun Stone I run a combination Silvery and Dark for Recovery/ArmPen. Hope that helps!
"This HAMSTER we got now where 2dc/2cw/1tr clear epic T2 then sell the stuff on AH while we pull our puds has got to stop."
I included some insight into my general strategies versus each class, and also what to do versus other GWFs. Let me know what you think, as I would love to discuss it!
And is this more like a Hybrid tank build rather than a full tank build? I would assume as a tank, you would need Unstoppable Recovery from Instigator and Defiance from Sentinel for more threat, considering Slam would be up almost all the time.
Thanks
I would definitely classify it as an 'off-tank'/hybrid. I don't believe you need Unstoppable Recovery at all, honestly that healing would be overkill and you having more DPS would be better for you. Defiance would be nice for more threat, though I'd still keep the Destroyer spec feats I took instead for higher DPS, hence they 'hybrid' nature of the build.
You're welcome!
Dark Fey Hunter
Fey Precision
Elven Haste
Elven Tranquility - Though Elven Ferocity is tempting, my power is only 3500, so it would just be an extra 350ish damage.
Elven Rejuvenation
I must say, I've never enjoyed playing my GWF like I do now that I'm tanking as Sentinel. We can still tank as effective as GFs but offer significantly more damage. Not to mention we offer several useful debuffs. On top of this, the group is no longer burdened by having a pure dps GWF. Rather, we can tank and do damage, then bring an extra TR or CW.
I'm running a slightly different spec and stat/gear prioritization, but this thread has given me that push to finally make the switch.
Thanks
Some GFs specs, Conqueror specifically, can certainly out DPS us in Dungeons. Though I will say, overall, I'd generic Sentinel build is deceptively good at DPS compared to GF. Though I will admit our higher Weapon damage is a huge part. I will also say that GWFs are certainly more welcome in DDs now, much more so then before. Been a long time coming, and hard work grinding out to show what we can do, but it's starting to show dividends!
You are most welcome mi amigo! :cool:
Leveling my Human GWF, 31 at the moment, using the talents you suggest but put the three extra into Steely Defense. Figured it would do the most good since my racial gives some extra defense, which in turn gives extra power! Endless Assault does look pretty good too, however... My power selection is all over the place, but I'ma wait til 60 til I buy a respec token for that.
Must say I'm having a lot of fun so far, but I am worried about grouping prospects at 60. I love the idea that I'm a tank hybrid, though it seems not too many groups feel the same way. I won't even have the benefit of being well geared, and while to my lowbie eyes Reaver's Edge is looking mighty awesome I got it for a paltry 4.5k AD so I can't be too sure... Eh, cross that bridge when I get there I suppose.
Thanks for the guide, gives me some idea of what to do and not gimp the group! Side note, how do you feel about the Savage enchants from the CTA event? Offensive gives crit and armor pen, and defensive gives life steal and max health (at a little over half the rate a full enchant would do, it seems). Worth slotting?
BTW, guess it's up to what is your playstyle, and what you enjoy the most.
The only problem that is being discussed, i think, is that once you reach very high HP (37-38k), the benefit from regeneration and unstoppable healing start to get OP, making the sentinels more tanky than they should be.
Something like 2k per tick regen plus unstoppable that at level 60 pops up quite often.
I'm testing a life steal build at level 60, with the 5% healing feat on unstoppable and the 10% heal of the 4/4 heroic duelist set. I have no enchants so right now there's a bit of regen too (24,5k hp).
Have to say that there's lots of potential. When in a fight, and dealing damage, you get a consistent and sustained healing. With a lifedrinker enchant and decent life steal stats (mine is not decent atm. May be 3,6% life steal).
Just testing, but i like exploring this class possibilities.
I'm glad you're enjoying the build thus far, and leveling can be fun (honestly I enjoyed it)! As for grouping prospects you can effectively do the GFs role, so if their isn't one you are golden there. Aside from that you can definitely roll with one just fine, as I have done numerous times. It really comes down to playing your role right, though of course a higher GS works well with that. The proposed DD changes on the Test server, if implemented, should help with you gearing up a bit faster honestly!
Savage Enchants, in an Offensive slot, can work fine. Just make sure you pay attention to your ArmPen so that it never drops below 23/24% (with Campire buff) while adding the ArmPen stat and your Con score together. Very important! Defensive stat wise I'd think your better with a Dark Enchant for more Lifesteal overall IMO.
It is lower DPS, but not by half, not that low at all...lol I don't have the exact PARS/ACT data, but I still finish 2nd in DPS in 95% of the parties. Sometimes even 1st, though the DPS isn't the focus of the build. I'll readily admit it definitely is lower then the Destroyer spec, obviously!
Well that would be a different build then the one above. I run 10% Lifesteal and 5% Regen currently, and I have enjoyed it/done well with it. This will only become better with the new passives from the Feywild Content, so the off-tank will become even better with this build IMO.
I think Lifedrinker is a bit of an overkill... I think you're better off with GPF (if your group doesn't have one) debuff stacking or even a Lightning (Greater/Perfect) that increases your base damage by 18/20% additional. You can try it with Lifedrinker of course, no reason not too! Just saying I feel the other Enchantments lend themselves to PvE better.
I have a lowbie Sentinel GWF myself, and was thinking of adapting him to a build like this one. My plan was to keep Daring Shout and Come And Get It slotted for regular PvE so I could keep enemies around me, but reading this it seems you can keep aggro without them. So I wanted to know, when do you use Daring Shout and Come And Get It?
Edit: While I'm here, may I suggest you submit this build to the community guide sticky? It would seem relevant.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?437341-Community-Class-Guides-Builds-and-Resources
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Like a snow plow, but for people.
Come and Get It I will sometimes slot when I need to assist CWs/DCs with knocking things off the edge of cliffs, like in Spellplague. Daring Shout I use when I need to maintain aggro, in FH last boss or 2nd Boss in CN where I need/want to run the adds in a giant circle. They are fairly specific in use, and take using them at the right times for you to maximize them. They are not on my starting list of Encounters for PvE, but they definitely have their place at the right time.
Sure, why not? :cool:
What do you think about swapping one of
Deep Gash: 5/5 OR
Great Weapon Focus: 5/5
(probably Great Weapon Focus) for Scale Agility or Disciple of War?
If you have 3K recovery, DoW would allow you to move 750 points from Armour Penetration to something else, perhaps Life-steal, Regen or Power.