Am I missing something here? If I can't purchase the Founder title anymore to be a proper "founder", then that pack was indeed exclusive, regardless of what else was offered in it.
I suggest you read the thread's pages abit, to not miss it - it's repeated several times, I think.
The exclusivity promised was unique access to the items inside, meaning only Founders would get to have access to Menzo Rogues, for example. I'd imagine same for Spider mount, the panther companion, and so on. People payed 200 USD for this, in good faith, or alot more if in Euro.
Add to that the fact that they urged people to "Buy it before it's too late!" around the live launch and previously.
They then took the same pack, changed it's name and removed a title associated with the former name, and re-sold it.
People reacted, asked them on Twitter, FB and on this Forum, about this, and they refuse to reply apart from a brush-off sentence.
This is not ok, hence this thread (and others of it's kind).
"While we thank you for your business, we are not offering compensation for users who purchased a Neverwinter Founder's pack prior to the Launch date of 6/20/2013. However, we have adjusted the packs to remove the "founder's" specific items while maintaining the same price. "
Notice that the response says 'items', which is plural. This statement is yet another lie, because the only item removed from these packs was the in-game title, 'Founder'. That should be singular. They also did not address the fact that they displayed repeated forum banner text ads proclaiming that the 'Founder's Programs ends on' a certain date. The first date I ever say was May 9th (on May 6th, the day they stole my $60). On May 7th this forum website said the 'Founder's Program ends on May 30th'. On and on.
I will submit a complain and refund request through www.bbb.org. Then my appeals are exhausted and I am just cheated out of $60--because had I known the only exclusive item in those Founder's Packs were the title 'Founder' and the item would always be available, I would have never spent $60 on a pack on May 6th.
But I got lied to, cheated, and swindled by PWE, with whom neither I, nor any one in my family, will ever do business again.
Live and lrn2avoidPWEatallcosts.
****, it's like there's no end to how low they go... I sincerely wish you best of luck with your complaint and that you get your refund. The more people like you get through, the more effect it has. Spread the word.
Its not "logical" to want to discontinue your support from a company that's tricked you and sold you things under false pretense? Not "logical" to want your purchase refunded when it didn't turn out to be what they promised it would?
I'd direct you to your nearest dictionary but I don't think it would help you much, sadly...
So discontinue your support for this company, dont buy anything else. But if you think you have been ripped off or cheated out of anything I ask again what did you lose except for your exclusivity e-peen that you want to keep stroking?
So discontinue your support for this company, dont buy anything else. But if you think you have been ripped off or cheated out of anything I ask again what did you lose except for your exclusivity e-peen that you want to keep stroking?
Ill repeat myself, despite knowing better; I wasn't cheated out of anything, since I'm not a founder, but if you scroll up abit, or read the thread including aaaaaall the big words, like a good boy, maybe you'll begin to understand what this is about. You don't even have to scroll very far, I assure you.
And again, if you want to hurl petty insults on a gaming forum (while accusing ME of e-peen) I kindly direct you to my PM box. Flail away. /pats head
[Note to Moderators; I'm behaving here, continously trying to abort the derailing of the thread, and minimise personal insults - I urge you to not lock this thread, as it's important, but instead warn or simply delete the posts you find too much.]
Ill repeat myself, despite knowing better; I wasn't cheated out of anything, since I'm not a founder, but if you scroll up abit, or read the thread including aaaaaall the big words, like a good boy, maybe you'll begin to understand what this is about. You don't even have to scroll very far, I assure you.
And again, if you want to hurl petty insults on a gaming forum (while accusing ME of e-peen) I kindly direct you to my PM box. Flail away. /pats head
[Note to Moderators; I'm behaving here, continously trying to abort the derailing of the thread, and minimise personal insults.]
Just insulting the company that they volunteer for, Yes that is much better then personal insults. Again if you hate the game so much then why stay? If you hate the company so much then why stay? You aren't a founder anyways so how has this impacted you or do you just like poking and prodding to get people riled up over a non issue.
And I have read the entire thread thanks, and it goes from people being a little upset to people talking about legal ramifications because of this "misleading" marketing strategy. There is nothing unethical if you have some thicker skin then a paper mache doll.
Just insulting the company that they volunteer for, Yes that is much better then personal insults. Again if you hate the game so much then why stay? If you hate the company so much then why stay? You aren't a founder anyways so how has this impacted you or do you just like poking and prodding to get people riled up over a non issue.
And I have read the entire thread thanks, and it goes from people being a little upset to people talking about legal ramifications because of this "misleading" marketing strategy. There is nothing unethical if you have some thicker skin then a paper mache doll.
Also... minimize* and continuously*
You get so agitated about people getting agitated that you feel the need to agitate them some more?
You keep repeating yourself, and I've already answered several times throughout this thread - if you still don't get it, I honestly don't know what to do. What do you hope to accomplish here, besides insult and just behave like... yeah.
And I'm not merely insulting the company they work for, I'm stating facts, as are others, wich we are allowed to do, and this thread is made for the subject I post about.
And I've never said I hate the game so much; I don't. I like this game. I've supported it and brought friends to it. It could be great. This is part of the reason why I'm arguing this.
And try to understand that a companys buisiness style and design, regardless if good or bad, have an effect on me regardless if I dont partake in a specific service of theirs, but others of similar kind. It's kind of like if you see something you view as an injustice, within an area you care about, maybe like in your place of work, it has an impact on you, one way or another. If PWE, for instance, should trick or cheat people with scams, then their entire Zen store and other sales become questionable, to me and others, wich puts the game itself in a negative light, wich has alot of impact. Do you understand now? It's not about being thick skinned or not, it's about taking a stand or not, and how you do it.
And thank you for even taking the time to correct a couple of words I failed to spell correctly; english is my 4th language and I rarely care enough to make the effort to spell check for you.
Again, sincerely yours, with kisses and hugs
EDIT; and again, you know how to PM me if you want to continue with this silliness.
Am I missing something here? If I can't purchase the Founder title anymore to be a proper "founder", then that pack was indeed exclusive, regardless of what else was offered in it.
You're missing the part where theyre essentially using legalese and 'well, that isnt the exact letter of what I said" to get away with essentially telling everyone who bought those packs (trhankfully, I wasnt one) that they were pretty much intentionally misled for the sole purpose of shovelling money directly into PWE's gullet.
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xheverMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited June 2013
This is seriously bad news
Gosh CHANGE IT PLEASE CRYPTIC / PWE or whoever in charge with this !
Felt like getting scammed by the word "EXCLUSIVE" here.. seriously
This is seriously bad news
Gosh CHANGE IT PLEASE CRYPTIC / PWE or whoever in charge with this !
Felt like getting scammed by the word "EXCLUSIVE" here.. seriously
To be fair the best way to get PWE to change this stance is to post in every game forum about their behaviour, and contact game site/magazines.....
You call it unethical, I call it business strategy. It doesnt effect me one bit.
Also...doesn't* and affect*
Hypocrite is hypocritical.
0
furorMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited June 2013
just chargeback, your bank and credit card holder will side with you. Alot of people did it, the worst pwe can do to you is banning your account associated with that card. Most of my friends who are hero of the north have done it, and got their money back. i know about 55 friends from neverwinter online who are hero of the north have told me they got their money back on teamspeak.
Thank you, nice to see I'm not the only one who dislike grammar <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> when they run out of big boy arguments. Fun to return the favor.
just chargeback, your bank and credit card holder will side with you. Alot of people did it, the worst pwe can do to you is banning your account associated with that card. Most of my friends who are hero of the north have done it, and got their money back. i know about 55 friends from neverwinter online who are hero of the north have told me they got their money back on teamspeak.
Hm, on what grounds to they ban you, officially?
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furorMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited June 2013
they ban your main account associated with that credit card you chargebacked. thats it, you get your money back anyway. Its an option for you to consider. If youj dont care a bout your pwe account then there is your option. its the account where you used that card to buy zen or founders pack.
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furorMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited June 2013
I dont see why you wouldnt get your money back, i see all of my friends who are hero of the north got their money back from their bank or credit card issuer.
just chargeback, your bank and credit card holder will side with you. Alot of people did it, the worst pwe can do to you is banning your account associated with that card. Most of my friends who are hero of the north have done it, and got their money back. i know about 55 friends from neverwinter online who are hero of the north have told me they got their money back on teamspeak.
Unfortunately I used PayPal, which I will never use again for anything except a purchase on eBay--because PayPal will not help me one iota, since the purchase involved 'virtual items' and over 45 days has elapsed.
So, I have done the ethical thing, which PWE is not capable of themselves, and I submitted a refund request through their Support ticket, which they denied, and now a complaint and refund request through the Better Business Bureau at www.bbb.org.
I encourage all purchasers of Founders Packs to either chargeback or request a refund. Let's put PWE out of business, and please continue to spread the word that no reasonable person should ever give any of their money to a company as unethical and deceitful as PWE.
0
furorMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited June 2013
wolf if you used your credit card through paypal or debit card contact your bank. dont contact paypal directly to get your moeny back. Paypal will not refund the moeny back, but if you contact your credit card or bank that you paid pwe through paypal, they will force paypal to refund the money back. your bank or credit card will force a chargeback against paypal and pwe. you'll get your money back that way.
Seriously? So because you cant be a special snowflake. You are advocating depriving EVERYONE from playing any PWE game ever again. And you want to unemploy potentially hundreds of people simply because YOU, yourself feel cheated over a technical definition of "exclusive" for a bunch of virtual goods.
Get a grip. Not everyone is upset over this, most don't even feel any level of indignation. Most, don't likely, even care. if you hate the game and the company, go, but leave everyone else out of it.
0
wilfensteinMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
Seriously? So because you cant be a special snowflake.
they advertised it specifically as being a special snowflake deal. "get in-game items exclusive (snowflake) to founders packs." they advertised it as such, so they should be held to their word. its not about paying to get thebest items in the game, but was a gesture to show of thanks to people who subsidized the game to make it a reality by offering unique items. it didnt' say "pay $60 to get a founder's title", it said "heres what you get for your $60/200 investment: list of items."
they advertised it specifically as being a special snowflake deal. "get in-game items exclusive (snowflake) to founders packs." they advertised it as such, so they should be held to their word. its not about paying to get thebest items in the game, but was a gesture to show of thanks to people who subsidized the game to make it a reality by offering unique items. it didnt' say "pay $60 to get a founder's title", it said "heres what you get for your $60/200 investment: list of items."
Hate to break it to you, but its still exclusive. If you want it, you need to pay for it. Everyone else is excluded. Until spider mounts are given free to everyone. They are still an exclusive rarity. And considering the price, it is something that is going to stay that way.
By your own logic someone who paid for the HoN pack before open beta should somehow be more exclusive then the folks who paid for the same pack after launch. And those who bought after launch should be more exclusive then those who bought more recently. It seems awfully petty to me. Its a rare high priced item, it will always be a rare high priced item. Its not something that the vast majority of people will ever get. Regardless of how long it remains available for sale. It seems pretty exclusive to me.
And certainly not an issue large enough to warrant someone advocating the entire elimination of a whole company for. A point you seem to have conveniently overlooked.
wolf if you used your credit card through paypal or debit card contact your bank. dont contact paypal directly to get your moeny back. Paypal will not refund the moeny back, but if you contact your credit card or bank that you paid pwe through paypal, they will force paypal to refund the money back. your bank or credit card will force a chargeback against paypal and pwe. you'll get your money back that way.
Unfortunately, I used Bill Me Later through PayPal.
Hate to break it to you, but its still exclusive. If you want it, you need to pay for it. Everyone else is excluded. Until spider mounts are given free to everyone. They are still an exclusive rarity. And considering the price, it is something that is going to stay that way.
By your own logic someone who paid for the HoN pack before open beta should somehow be more exclusive then the folks who paid for the same pack after launch. And those who bought after launch should be more exclusive then those who bought more recently. It seems awfully petty to me. Its a rare high priced item, it will always be a rare high priced item. Its not something that the vast majority of people will ever get. Regardless of how long it remains available for sale. It seems pretty exclusive to me.
And certainly not an issue large enough to warrant someone advocating the entire elimination of a whole company for. A point you seem to have conveniently overlooked.
Hate to break it to you, but it's not exclusive in the same sense. The thing was that only the original Founders should have access to these things they purchased - part of the whole appeal. Many MMOs have various exclusive things like gear or titles or companions they reward to players who participated in beta, or was there during launch, and special "limited copy Collectors Edition" stuff or similar things is supposed to mean something, either something exclusive to that time and place (think Caturday) or simply a sign like "We were here first". This Founders Pack, including it's contents, were supposed to be exclusive to those Founders who was indeed "there first", and in some ways took a leap of faith to fund a game with 200+ USD. The Menzo Drow, the panther, the spider mount, all meant to be exclusive to Founders. You can throw around "snowflake" all you want, jumping on the bandwagon of internet bashers lacking any kind of originality or empathy; it still doesn't change the facts.
By any logic those who did pay for the HoN Pack, the Founders pack, are more exclusive than the folks who paid for it later, since being a Founder was in fact related to a specific time, the very launch of the game, and the beta before. Thats kind of the point of being a Founder or whatever title or name is associated and awarded to people in that position.
However it's not about being petty or "a special snowflake", it's about paying for something under certain cirumstances, then having the deal and foundation of the purchase revoked, going against the entire idea. This can not be disputed.
It is certainly an issue large enough to warrant whatever they want to advocate if they are indeed tricked, duped or scammed, anything under false advertising really, because to them it appearently matters that much, and letting anyone getting away with such deals, or to stand up for yourself and declare your concern or outrage, is everyone's right and choice. A point you seem to have conveniently overlooked.
TL;DR - Some people feel like this, and they are entitled to, and you'll simply have to get over that fact.
Even ambisinisterr assured us in a previous thread that the armored version of the spider mount would always be exclusive to the HoN Founder's Pack.
I'm not broken up about it by any means (I'm not even that big a fan of the mount); I just don't appreciate being misled and lied to by a company and its representatives.
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wilfensteinMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
By your own logic someone who paid for the HoN pack before open beta should somehow be more exclusive then the folks who paid for the same pack after launch. And those who bought after launch should be more exclusive then those who bought more recently. It seems awfully petty to me. Its a rare high priced item, it will always be a rare high priced item. Its not something that the vast majority of people will ever get. Regardless of how long it remains available for sale. It seems pretty exclusive to me.
And certainly not an issue large enough to warrant someone advocating the entire elimination of a whole company for. A point you seem to have conveniently overlooked.
If they advertise that it will be an exclusive, then it should be an exclusive, end of story. If they were to advertise that the people who bought something during closed beta would get something unique to those in open beta, they are entitled to such because they invested their time and money into the product-- and it was described as such. Most people would be understanding of this. Just like an investor investing in a patent, there is a limited window to invest before it goes "live" and you have a specific amount of time to take part, or lose out. Yes, you can buy the product later, but you lose out on the benefits and rewards of being a part of its creation. It's not petty, it's the way things work in the real world. Founders items were never listed as an exclusive that can be purchased later, albeit at a price so high that it renders it "exclusive." Again, it was not advertised as just buying a title. The items listed were listed as unique snowflakes that you get for investing in the product during its creation. In any other business practice that would be considered deceptive and unethical, and why we don't see it as an active business model in a large majority of business practices today-- because it's shady to bait people. I'm not saying they should be shut down over it, which is why I did not bring it up (not "conveniently overlooking"), but the anger over it is warranted. They could very easily just create new bundles or packs that would be just as rewarding to investors who got in the game later without alienating the core who financially propped up the game. This was my first experience with anything by Cryptic or Perfect World, and I invested $60 into the game. I think for the experience, number of hours played, and the intrigue with things like Foundry, it was worth donating towards and I feel like I got my money's worth... but I will not buy any further Cryptic or Perfect World titles, and it sure seem like there are many others who feel the same way. Those who spent $200+, however, have a much higher stake in the argument-- they weren't just buying a (free) product, it was like an investment, and the company promised to reward them in kind for doing so. If you paid nothing, you don't have a dog in the fight, and have no right to judge others for being upset over how they feel for spending their hard earned dollars.
Back then I was in a rush to buy my HoN pack before it disappeared for good. Never expected them to re-release the same pack with the same items.
Am I somewhat annoyed by that? Yup. Either you re-release a different pack with different items and let the people who decided to invest early into your game keep those items exclusive. Surely they're raking in a ton of cash from the Zen purchases to make a new pack that isn't so similar to what we the original HoN buyers got?
Um, the starter kit is the only thing you can still buy. The other links are inactive.
If you have already purchased the Founder's Packs and you are logged in to the website the Neverwinter Packs will be greyed out for you, because the items in the Packs are exactly the same.
PWE will not let an account purchase the exact same items twice. You cannot buy two Spider Mounts on the same account.
Using this method, PWE proves that the Neverwinter Packs and Founder's Packs contain the same items.
Hence, PWE lied about the Founders Packs containing exclusive, limited edition items, because you can still buy the exact same items from the Founders Packs in the Neverwinter Packs.
The only thing missing is the title, 'Founder'. PWE never stated or implied that the only exclusive item in these packs was the title, 'Founder'. Deceptive marketing.
I'm going to say this once. Knock off the flaming each other in this thread. If it keeps up on the path it's going, I will lock it.
I'm keeping this open at this time due to the importance of the issue. Personally speaking, I'm not easy with the fact of the "exclusivity" deal and still selling the pack, but I've saw this rodeo in RaiderZ too.
Now, as to chargebacks: Do not advocate this as an alternative to the refund process or because you simply refuse to deal with CS. Most, if not all, credit card companies have it written into their policies that you must prove you attempted to deal with the merchant in good faith and request a refund before requesting a chargeback. Spurious (please note use of the word here) chargebacks or misleading chargebacks CAN be considered fraudulent and subject you to penalties. Chargebacks are a VERY serious procedure and should be taken and used as such.
Now, understand that the above is not intended to "scare" anyone into not requesting one. Do so as you wish, but understand the consequence and weight of doing so. Also, be aware that the merchant has the right to dispute the chargeback.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
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PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Comments
I suggest you read the thread's pages abit, to not miss it - it's repeated several times, I think.
The exclusivity promised was unique access to the items inside, meaning only Founders would get to have access to Menzo Rogues, for example. I'd imagine same for Spider mount, the panther companion, and so on. People payed 200 USD for this, in good faith, or alot more if in Euro.
Add to that the fact that they urged people to "Buy it before it's too late!" around the live launch and previously.
They then took the same pack, changed it's name and removed a title associated with the former name, and re-sold it.
People reacted, asked them on Twitter, FB and on this Forum, about this, and they refuse to reply apart from a brush-off sentence.
This is not ok, hence this thread (and others of it's kind).
****, it's like there's no end to how low they go... I sincerely wish you best of luck with your complaint and that you get your refund. The more people like you get through, the more effect it has. Spread the word.
So discontinue your support for this company, dont buy anything else. But if you think you have been ripped off or cheated out of anything I ask again what did you lose except for your exclusivity e-peen that you want to keep stroking?
Ill repeat myself, despite knowing better; I wasn't cheated out of anything, since I'm not a founder, but if you scroll up abit, or read the thread including aaaaaall the big words, like a good boy, maybe you'll begin to understand what this is about. You don't even have to scroll very far, I assure you.
And again, if you want to hurl petty insults on a gaming forum (while accusing ME of e-peen) I kindly direct you to my PM box. Flail away. /pats head
[Note to Moderators; I'm behaving here, continously trying to abort the derailing of the thread, and minimise personal insults - I urge you to not lock this thread, as it's important, but instead warn or simply delete the posts you find too much.]
Just insulting the company that they volunteer for, Yes that is much better then personal insults. Again if you hate the game so much then why stay? If you hate the company so much then why stay? You aren't a founder anyways so how has this impacted you or do you just like poking and prodding to get people riled up over a non issue.
And I have read the entire thread thanks, and it goes from people being a little upset to people talking about legal ramifications because of this "misleading" marketing strategy. There is nothing unethical if you have some thicker skin then a paper mache doll.
Also... minimize* and continuously*
You get so agitated about people getting agitated that you feel the need to agitate them some more?
You keep repeating yourself, and I've already answered several times throughout this thread - if you still don't get it, I honestly don't know what to do. What do you hope to accomplish here, besides insult and just behave like... yeah.
And I'm not merely insulting the company they work for, I'm stating facts, as are others, wich we are allowed to do, and this thread is made for the subject I post about.
And I've never said I hate the game so much; I don't. I like this game. I've supported it and brought friends to it. It could be great. This is part of the reason why I'm arguing this.
And try to understand that a companys buisiness style and design, regardless if good or bad, have an effect on me regardless if I dont partake in a specific service of theirs, but others of similar kind. It's kind of like if you see something you view as an injustice, within an area you care about, maybe like in your place of work, it has an impact on you, one way or another. If PWE, for instance, should trick or cheat people with scams, then their entire Zen store and other sales become questionable, to me and others, wich puts the game itself in a negative light, wich has alot of impact. Do you understand now?
And thank you for even taking the time to correct a couple of words I failed to spell correctly; english is my 4th language and I rarely care enough to make the effort to spell check for you.
Again, sincerely yours, with kisses and hugs
EDIT; and again, you know how to PM me if you want to continue with this silliness.
You're missing the part where theyre essentially using legalese and 'well, that isnt the exact letter of what I said" to get away with essentially telling everyone who bought those packs (trhankfully, I wasnt one) that they were pretty much intentionally misled for the sole purpose of shovelling money directly into PWE's gullet.
Gosh CHANGE IT PLEASE CRYPTIC / PWE or whoever in charge with this !
Felt like getting scammed by the word "EXCLUSIVE" here.. seriously
To be fair the best way to get PWE to change this stance is to post in every game forum about their behaviour, and contact game site/magazines.....
Also...doesn't* and affect*
Hypocrite is hypocritical.
Thank you, nice to see I'm not the only one who dislike grammar <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> when they run out of big boy arguments. Fun to return the favor.
Hm, on what grounds to they ban you, officially?
Unfortunately I used PayPal, which I will never use again for anything except a purchase on eBay--because PayPal will not help me one iota, since the purchase involved 'virtual items' and over 45 days has elapsed.
So, I have done the ethical thing, which PWE is not capable of themselves, and I submitted a refund request through their Support ticket, which they denied, and now a complaint and refund request through the Better Business Bureau at www.bbb.org.
I encourage all purchasers of Founders Packs to either chargeback or request a refund. Let's put PWE out of business, and please continue to spread the word that no reasonable person should ever give any of their money to a company as unethical and deceitful as PWE.
Seriously? So because you cant be a special snowflake. You are advocating depriving EVERYONE from playing any PWE game ever again. And you want to unemploy potentially hundreds of people simply because YOU, yourself feel cheated over a technical definition of "exclusive" for a bunch of virtual goods.
Get a grip. Not everyone is upset over this, most don't even feel any level of indignation. Most, don't likely, even care. if you hate the game and the company, go, but leave everyone else out of it.
they advertised it specifically as being a special snowflake deal. "get in-game items exclusive (snowflake) to founders packs." they advertised it as such, so they should be held to their word. its not about paying to get thebest items in the game, but was a gesture to show of thanks to people who subsidized the game to make it a reality by offering unique items. it didnt' say "pay $60 to get a founder's title", it said "heres what you get for your $60/200 investment: list of items."
Hate to break it to you, but its still exclusive. If you want it, you need to pay for it. Everyone else is excluded. Until spider mounts are given free to everyone. They are still an exclusive rarity. And considering the price, it is something that is going to stay that way.
By your own logic someone who paid for the HoN pack before open beta should somehow be more exclusive then the folks who paid for the same pack after launch. And those who bought after launch should be more exclusive then those who bought more recently. It seems awfully petty to me. Its a rare high priced item, it will always be a rare high priced item. Its not something that the vast majority of people will ever get. Regardless of how long it remains available for sale. It seems pretty exclusive to me.
And certainly not an issue large enough to warrant someone advocating the entire elimination of a whole company for. A point you seem to have conveniently overlooked.
Unfortunately, I used Bill Me Later through PayPal.
Hate to break it to you, but it's not exclusive in the same sense. The thing was that only the original Founders should have access to these things they purchased - part of the whole appeal. Many MMOs have various exclusive things like gear or titles or companions they reward to players who participated in beta, or was there during launch, and special "limited copy Collectors Edition" stuff or similar things is supposed to mean something, either something exclusive to that time and place (think Caturday) or simply a sign like "We were here first". This Founders Pack, including it's contents, were supposed to be exclusive to those Founders who was indeed "there first", and in some ways took a leap of faith to fund a game with 200+ USD. The Menzo Drow, the panther, the spider mount, all meant to be exclusive to Founders. You can throw around "snowflake" all you want, jumping on the bandwagon of internet bashers lacking any kind of originality or empathy; it still doesn't change the facts.
By any logic those who did pay for the HoN Pack, the Founders pack, are more exclusive than the folks who paid for it later, since being a Founder was in fact related to a specific time, the very launch of the game, and the beta before. Thats kind of the point of being a Founder or whatever title or name is associated and awarded to people in that position.
However it's not about being petty or "a special snowflake", it's about paying for something under certain cirumstances, then having the deal and foundation of the purchase revoked, going against the entire idea. This can not be disputed.
It is certainly an issue large enough to warrant whatever they want to advocate if they are indeed tricked, duped or scammed, anything under false advertising really, because to them it appearently matters that much, and letting anyone getting away with such deals, or to stand up for yourself and declare your concern or outrage, is everyone's right and choice. A point you seem to have conveniently overlooked.
TL;DR - Some people feel like this, and they are entitled to, and you'll simply have to get over that fact.
I'm not broken up about it by any means (I'm not even that big a fan of the mount); I just don't appreciate being misled and lied to by a company and its representatives.
If they advertise that it will be an exclusive, then it should be an exclusive, end of story. If they were to advertise that the people who bought something during closed beta would get something unique to those in open beta, they are entitled to such because they invested their time and money into the product-- and it was described as such. Most people would be understanding of this. Just like an investor investing in a patent, there is a limited window to invest before it goes "live" and you have a specific amount of time to take part, or lose out. Yes, you can buy the product later, but you lose out on the benefits and rewards of being a part of its creation. It's not petty, it's the way things work in the real world. Founders items were never listed as an exclusive that can be purchased later, albeit at a price so high that it renders it "exclusive." Again, it was not advertised as just buying a title. The items listed were listed as unique snowflakes that you get for investing in the product during its creation. In any other business practice that would be considered deceptive and unethical, and why we don't see it as an active business model in a large majority of business practices today-- because it's shady to bait people. I'm not saying they should be shut down over it, which is why I did not bring it up (not "conveniently overlooking"), but the anger over it is warranted. They could very easily just create new bundles or packs that would be just as rewarding to investors who got in the game later without alienating the core who financially propped up the game. This was my first experience with anything by Cryptic or Perfect World, and I invested $60 into the game. I think for the experience, number of hours played, and the intrigue with things like Foundry, it was worth donating towards and I feel like I got my money's worth... but I will not buy any further Cryptic or Perfect World titles, and it sure seem like there are many others who feel the same way. Those who spent $200+, however, have a much higher stake in the argument-- they weren't just buying a (free) product, it was like an investment, and the company promised to reward them in kind for doing so. If you paid nothing, you don't have a dog in the fight, and have no right to judge others for being upset over how they feel for spending their hard earned dollars.
Am I somewhat annoyed by that? Yup. Either you re-release a different pack with different items and let the people who decided to invest early into your game keep those items exclusive. Surely they're raking in a ton of cash from the Zen purchases to make a new pack that isn't so similar to what we the original HoN buyers got?
If you have already purchased the Founder's Packs and you are logged in to the website the Neverwinter Packs will be greyed out for you, because the items in the Packs are exactly the same.
PWE will not let an account purchase the exact same items twice. You cannot buy two Spider Mounts on the same account.
Using this method, PWE proves that the Neverwinter Packs and Founder's Packs contain the same items.
Hence, PWE lied about the Founders Packs containing exclusive, limited edition items, because you can still buy the exact same items from the Founders Packs in the Neverwinter Packs.
The only thing missing is the title, 'Founder'. PWE never stated or implied that the only exclusive item in these packs was the title, 'Founder'. Deceptive marketing.
I'm keeping this open at this time due to the importance of the issue. Personally speaking, I'm not easy with the fact of the "exclusivity" deal and still selling the pack, but I've saw this rodeo in RaiderZ too.
Now, as to chargebacks: Do not advocate this as an alternative to the refund process or because you simply refuse to deal with CS. Most, if not all, credit card companies have it written into their policies that you must prove you attempted to deal with the merchant in good faith and request a refund before requesting a chargeback. Spurious (please note use of the word here) chargebacks or misleading chargebacks CAN be considered fraudulent and subject you to penalties. Chargebacks are a VERY serious procedure and should be taken and used as such.
Now, understand that the above is not intended to "scare" anyone into not requesting one. Do so as you wish, but understand the consequence and weight of doing so. Also, be aware that the merchant has the right to dispute the chargeback.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com