Why can I both distill a crystal into refined goo, and make a crystal from refined goo?
What would be the use cases of where I would want to make a crystal into refined goo, other than I am out of goo and need some?
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orodalfMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
It's to transform different crystals into others.
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hackbeardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 16Arc User
edited July 2013
I would just like to be able to progress past level 2 of Alchemy. I've tried every task on the list and still stuck at 0% of Level 2. Disappointing.
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treize26Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Personally, I very much dislike the "gambling" aspect of it. There are so many other aspects of this game that revolve around gambling, it's just getting tiresome.
I understand it doesn't cost, unlike the stupid lockbox gambling mini-game, but I believe the intent is to drive people to finish the experimentation tasks early with diamonds, as that seems to be the only logical reason I can think of to limit experimentation to being a 1 at a time recipe. I would like to at least show some incremental progress from doing alchemy, rather than it being all or nothing when experimenting.
Even the lockboxes provide you a consolation prize and the illusion of progress by way of tarmalune trade bars, couldn't we get some small amount of alchemy xp for doing the other missions as well?
dspawn255Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited July 2013
Seems that collecting the reward from the alchemy xp reward quest from the gateway freezes you alchemy xp bar. I am currently stuck at lvl 10, a full bar of alchemy xp 7200, and it did not advance to lvl 11.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Seems that collecting the reward from the alchemy xp reward quest from the gateway freezes you alchemy xp bar. I am currently stuck at lvl 10, a full bar of alchemy xp 7200, and it did not advance to lvl 11.
You will be stuck then unless you find some sort of workaround Cryptic have not made any announcement about this after about a week I think someone said "we are looking into it."
Experiments for me do not give scrolls any more I am guessing the code in game thinks I should be doing the experiment from the next level but my bar is stuck at 100% and didn't tick over to the next level. Been stuck for over a week, have run in the region of 50-60 experiments without a single scroll, and there is no other way of getting scrolls so stuck until they fix this and give us a way to rollover to the next level.
If you check the bug forums etc you will there are many people stuck like this I made the mistake of thinking I could keep levelling alchemy while at work but the opposite happened
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dvscalesingerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Has anyone else seen if there are any other dyes that can be made besides the class set dyes? I'd like to see if you can make say just one bottle of gold or copper dye instead of these drab colored sets that you can get 6 of but who would want 6 of the same grey or brown dyes?
Maybe you guys that are talking about success rates being nerfed just got to the next tier and it got harder? Hmm that's a thought huh? hehe It's like saying they nerfed leveling your character because you got from 1 - 20 in your first session of playing now you are only averaging 6 - 8 levels a session... think... think ... think...
Again as I said, this was over 3 characters, one was already highish level, the other two were lowbies at the time of the patch.
Having done a bit more (20/20/18 on my 3), the pattern fail-fail-succeed-fail-fail-fail-succeed in that order from reaching a level afresh which should be 1/128 if it's 50/50, 1/70 if the odds of success are 1/3 is occurring MUCH more frequently than that (about 1/6-1/8), I believe it's occurred 10/58 when I should only be seeing one or two over that number of tries. Even if a streakbreaker is involved it's still happening waaay too often.
As with all the proffesions the time for each task doesnt match the product being made. For armour the issue is that by the time you've made something the chances are you've outlevelled the thing being made. For leadership its the disparity in AD rewards vs time when you compare common and the supposedly better rarer tasks.
The quantity of potions made don't compensate for the time put in.
As an example it takes around 40 odd minutes to make a single solitary health potion and thats the basic one.
I can see most people grinding it to level 7 for making dyes but after that they'll probably ignore it unless they've designated the character as an offline crafter.
At the current state that alchemy is in it would take most of a week to make potions used in a single bad pug run. Assuming the crafter isnt one of those rage quitting elitist types that bails after the first death.
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filcMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The quantity of potions made don't compensate for the time put in.
As an example it takes around 40 odd minutes to make a single solitary health potion and thats the basic one.
That's why there are batch tasks where you can make 6,8,10 (tiers) of one potion in few hours. I usually slot those, when I'm goin sleep so i have lot's of potions next day.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited July 2013
My latest set of experiments required 7 tries to collect 3 knowledge items, so success rate continues to be under 50%.
Edit:
At this stage, since the experiments require Aqua Regia, every experiment uses at least an hour of lead time to create the necessary materials (assuming minimal monetary investment). Even making a bunch in advance, if you fail enough and run out, then you're stuck until you get more stuff. No wonder people get frustrated.
I have more feedback after hitting 20 a few days ago
- There should be a way to refine goo to make crystals. It can be expensive or slow, but it should exist. Refined goo clearly, from the name, can be refined from regular goo, so we need this process.
- There should be a way to make dragon egg gems. As above, it can be slow, expensive, or even a rare task (25 refined goos, 12 hours, and rare level 20 task, OK).
- I can currently sell 1 aqua regia and buy a pretty substantial number of potions with the proceeds. A lot more than I can make from 1 regia, which is nothing... you need TWO of them for ONE potion but you can sell TWO of them and BUY 10 or more potions from the AH!!! FAIL!!!
- There should be more level 20 tasks. I have 3: make 2 buff potions that, while awesome, are expensive to make and since you can take 1 of each type of regular, looted potion, all they do is save bag space. The third makes the fun random potion at great expense. Woohoo, I spent 15k diamonds in materials to be a chicken for 30 seconds! These potions are fun, yes. They are not *that* fun (at least for poor folks) though.
- the mixologist icon looks a lot like Bob Ross (the painter on TV). Am I the only one who sees this?
- Higher level skill nodes are borked. I tried to farm the phander wood, but all I ever get are dumb low rank enchantments. Consider putting crafting materials in the crafting nodes and enchants in chests or something logical like that. Yes, I can gather it with my peons, so its not a total loss but it would be nice to get some in-game as well.
- I am making great profits with alchemy now. I will not say how as I do not want to ruin it, but even buying the materials I needed and taking into account the insane AH cut, I still doubled the money invested in materials and have done so over the past few days. My silver costs remain a bit high but diamond income is amazing.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
the number of potion receive really need to increase, seriously taking 1h+ to make 1 potion is just STUPID
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sutekhoneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 30Arc User
edited July 2013
I just hit level 20. Does anyone know if I still need to use my level 20 experimentation to unlock more recipes (if so how many are there so I know when to stop making the useless resource draining Major Unstable Potions)? Rank 20 Experimentation is the only lvl 20 recipe I have so hopefully there is more to hitting 20 than that!
That's why there are batch tasks where you can make 6,8,10 (tiers) of one potion in few hours. I usually slot those, when I'm going to sleep so i have lot's of potions next day.
Alchemy should give you choices. The Rare tasks are random and often offer pots that I have no interest in. If you have the mats in your inventory, when you click on an item to create the pot, it should also give you the option of how many you want to create, ESPECIALLY at level 20, when you have put in a LOT of time and a LOT of effort to achieve that level. That leaves YOU in charge of your creations and not at the whim of the alchemy developers.
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brotherjohn3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited July 2013
Alchemy rating
minus 10.
While I think leveling the class should indeed be time consuming and costly both, the end result of reaching lvl 20 is well absolutely worthless. Yes yes yes there are a few ways to earn AD trust me I have found them out, the class is absolutely worth to actually craft for AD or even gold. Craft times are just stupidly high for 1 turn around, craft requirements are so high they just dont equal the cost of items to make AD or gold.
There needs to be at least 20 different dyes available to craft. thats a minumum number.
There needs to be large batch pot recipes not found in the rare.
The rare recipes should be specialty dyes, specialtly yellow and above resources or rare pots that do differing stats for differing lengths of time. IE a pot that heals for 1000 but will tick off 1000 a sec for 5 sec. the number of varations on pots would be amazing if you actually took the time to design alchemy correctly.
Yes does it need major help but will it ever get it NOPE why the make money by having poor slobs by hundreds of dollars of cash for zen to ad.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
XP would be nice. Been doing this for 3 days on 2 toons and both are locked at level 2. I am not getting XP, nor am I getting an adequate number of green scrolls to progress. VERY disappointing profession. Too much mini-busy work and nowhere near an acceptable reward.
Sad to say, worst profession in the game.
I disagree, I like the uniqueness of the Alchemist and the fact that Success (and xp) is only gained at the end.
1. Gather the ingredients
2. Combine them to make the experimental components
3. Make sure you have enough components to make at least one more experiment, because they are experiments and success is not assured. (It took me 9 experiments at level 15 to succeed, but only 6 at level 16).
4. Plan the later (level 10+) experiments for overnight so that their finish will coincide with the start of the next gaming day.
5. (optional) If you have time, set up the components for the next levels experimentation.
I lke alchemy BUT they need to give us longer craft time but award more pots for that time, having them as just rare only is rather lame, rare should be reserved for special potions only.
The pricing of the raws really need to be lowered. Greater Healing potions can be bought for 7.5 silver from the vendor. Producing a Greater Healing Potion costs 10.8 silver and takes 335 minues of combined production time. This is totally unbalanced.
Just wondering do the major flasks stack with elixir buff potions? Or do they get cancelled out? Only asking as I don't have any to test with atm. Curious as I remember other mmos that have flasks stacked with elixirs stats.
Thanks in advance!
Edit: nvm just tested it and stats can't go over 300..for example i used the flask of potency first and it gave 225, but when i used the elixirs it only adds +75 ontop of the flask. You can get the bonus crit severity which is cool.
Then tried the flask of protection, but couldn't use the elixer with defence on it (came up with error saying already have stronger ) I could use the elixir with deflect though. Wondering if i should have tried using defense elixir first then used Flask of protection.
Alchemy is just cumbersome, and unbalanced. Granted, all of them are time consuming to the point of being useless to use to equip your character as you level (which is what a lot of people like to do). The progress is too slow, and you quickly out level what you can make. The only purpose is to make stuff to sell to others, but most of what you make is not worth buying.
However, of the 4 professions that I have tried, so far, Alchemy is the worst. I'm sure some people will defend its current state because it means less competition for them, but crafting should be somewhat enjoyable, and worthwhile.
As others have pointed out, the end results are simply not worth the time and cost involved. The only purpose is to create junk to level, rather than making viable products.
The component requirements are a mess. The time and hassle of grinding out pelts and wood, then grinding out vitriol, only to have the experiments fail, is frustrating and boring. All that effort with nothing to show for it.
The worst part is when the recipes don't mesh. For example, at one point you have to make potions of lesser accuracy, and potions of lesser reflexes for the experiment. One requires 2 blue and 2 green vitriol, while the other requires 4 green vitriol. So you need them at a ratio of 6 green - 2 blue, but you can only make them at a ratio 1-1, requiring you to do a lot of excessive grinding to make up for the imbalance. An imbalance that shouldn't even be there.
I wouldn't mind the experiments failing if the components were not such a painful grind fest. Remember, this is a game, and this is supposed to be fun.
Would this be the thread to ask: What Happened to Alchemy? I can't level anymore in it. Nothing I do furthers the meter. I can't make all the potions needed for lvl 4 experimentation, so it costs a ton of diamonds to do it, and when I do, all I get is a wonky potion but no more experience or alchemical knowlege. it's been almost 2 weeks since I've made any headway in it.
Ancient Spirits officer
NW-DM9Pj62ZK 'Bear with Me' NW-DOPPZAYKQ 'Retirement Plans' NW-DKJMLS8OQ 'Sleepy in Cea Tull'
I lke alchemy BUT they need to give us longer craft time but award more pots for that time, having them as just rare only is rather lame, rare should be reserved for special potions only.
We shouldnt have to micro manage every 10 mins
As Zanthe25 says and ...
... Leveling Alchemy Sucks Big. Period.
Would love to have a Toggle Double XP option, so i can play on Double XP events. TY.
The problem with alchemy is the same as with crafting system as a whole in-game. It's a time sink and gold sink which serves no other purpose but being these two. But there are few other things that I'd like to see addressed:
1. Alchemy is not profitable. Yes, I understand that developers don't want botters/gold-sellers to use it to their advantage, and I support this fully. But where botters can't profit, players can't too, see my predicament here? It's not even worth making our own health potions!
2. Lack of unique results that would be actually worth something or FUN, for the gawd's sake. We have dyes and these crit/power/stamina pots, but dyes are all dull standard colours and pots are made of expensive and rare materials, so selling these for profit on AH is hard. I haven't seen players buying or using these pots, and some of my guildies don't know that power/stamina pots exist! Maybe devs may consider decrease the duration of the pots (30 minutes is quite long), but make effects somewhat more...effective, and people will buy them for PvP or tough boss-fights?
3. Distilled health pots task is not available as a rare/batch. Why? Why crit/defense tasks aren't available as a batch, too?
4. I understand that devs don't want to add additional dye colours because of the competition with the zen store. Still, having some new ones as rare tasks would be nice. Say, Liira's or Many Arrow's dye packs tasks popping once or twice per day won't harm the profits this badly? Or this special recipe could drop during the corresponding events from the chest.
5. Poisons. It baffles me that alchemists can't make poisons to apply them to the weapons. Selling poisons at the zen-store will be clear P2W, but adding them as a rare task at level 18 at earliest (to prevent botters entering the AH and gaining AD with these!) will be great for those who bothered to level alchemy. Poisoning effects already exist in game, I don't see why they shouldn't be available as a consumable.
6. Gaining the highest level of alchemy is pointless. It gives no speed or quality bonus, doesn't count as achievement. It does give flashy title, but that's it. Meh.
Has anyone tried to stock pile Basic Alchemical Knowledges (BAKs) at lower levels? That is, do a bunch of level 1 experiments to earn a handful of BAKs, and THEN do all the Alchemical Researchs to level up? I'm not sure if you can earn more BAKs then you need for the next research level, so was wondering if anyone tried it. It would cut down on all the micro-crafting you have to do at higher levels of experimenting.
Comments
What would be the use cases of where I would want to make a crystal into refined goo, other than I am out of goo and need some?
I understand it doesn't cost, unlike the stupid lockbox gambling mini-game, but I believe the intent is to drive people to finish the experimentation tasks early with diamonds, as that seems to be the only logical reason I can think of to limit experimentation to being a 1 at a time recipe. I would like to at least show some incremental progress from doing alchemy, rather than it being all or nothing when experimenting.
Even the lockboxes provide you a consolation prize and the illusion of progress by way of tarmalune trade bars, couldn't we get some small amount of alchemy xp for doing the other missions as well?
You experiment to gain knowledge, but not every experiment generates knowledge. When you have accumulated enough knowledge, you research and level up.
The game explains this very poorly, and I believe a coming change from the test server is intended to show it a bit better.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
You will be stuck then unless you find some sort of workaround Cryptic have not made any announcement about this after about a week I think someone said "we are looking into it."
Experiments for me do not give scrolls any more I am guessing the code in game thinks I should be doing the experiment from the next level but my bar is stuck at 100% and didn't tick over to the next level. Been stuck for over a week, have run in the region of 50-60 experiments without a single scroll, and there is no other way of getting scrolls so stuck until they fix this and give us a way to rollover to the next level.
If you check the bug forums etc you will there are many people stuck like this I made the mistake of thinking I could keep levelling alchemy while at work but the opposite happened
FOR THE SEVEN!!!
Again as I said, this was over 3 characters, one was already highish level, the other two were lowbies at the time of the patch.
Having done a bit more (20/20/18 on my 3), the pattern fail-fail-succeed-fail-fail-fail-succeed in that order from reaching a level afresh which should be 1/128 if it's 50/50, 1/70 if the odds of success are 1/3 is occurring MUCH more frequently than that (about 1/6-1/8), I believe it's occurred 10/58 when I should only be seeing one or two over that number of tries. Even if a streakbreaker is involved it's still happening waaay too often.
The quantity of potions made don't compensate for the time put in.
As an example it takes around 40 odd minutes to make a single solitary health potion and thats the basic one.
I can see most people grinding it to level 7 for making dyes but after that they'll probably ignore it unless they've designated the character as an offline crafter.
At the current state that alchemy is in it would take most of a week to make potions used in a single bad pug run. Assuming the crafter isnt one of those rage quitting elitist types that bails after the first death.
That's why there are batch tasks where you can make 6,8,10 (tiers) of one potion in few hours. I usually slot those, when I'm goin sleep so i have lot's of potions next day.
Edit:
At this stage, since the experiments require Aqua Regia, every experiment uses at least an hour of lead time to create the necessary materials (assuming minimal monetary investment). Even making a bunch in advance, if you fail enough and run out, then you're stuck until you get more stuff. No wonder people get frustrated.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
My Alchemy is up to 9 but this is a beating and without some sign of payoff it is going to be time to go back to all leadership all the time.
Give us a carrot Cryptic. How about primary colors at 20? That would keep me grinding.
- There should be a way to refine goo to make crystals. It can be expensive or slow, but it should exist. Refined goo clearly, from the name, can be refined from regular goo, so we need this process.
- There should be a way to make dragon egg gems. As above, it can be slow, expensive, or even a rare task (25 refined goos, 12 hours, and rare level 20 task, OK).
- I can currently sell 1 aqua regia and buy a pretty substantial number of potions with the proceeds. A lot more than I can make from 1 regia, which is nothing... you need TWO of them for ONE potion but you can sell TWO of them and BUY 10 or more potions from the AH!!! FAIL!!!
- There should be more level 20 tasks. I have 3: make 2 buff potions that, while awesome, are expensive to make and since you can take 1 of each type of regular, looted potion, all they do is save bag space. The third makes the fun random potion at great expense. Woohoo, I spent 15k diamonds in materials to be a chicken for 30 seconds! These potions are fun, yes. They are not *that* fun (at least for poor folks) though.
- the mixologist icon looks a lot like Bob Ross (the painter on TV). Am I the only one who sees this?
- Higher level skill nodes are borked. I tried to farm the phander wood, but all I ever get are dumb low rank enchantments. Consider putting crafting materials in the crafting nodes and enchants in chests or something logical like that. Yes, I can gather it with my peons, so its not a total loss but it would be nice to get some in-game as well.
- I am making great profits with alchemy now. I will not say how as I do not want to ruin it, but even buying the materials I needed and taking into account the insane AH cut, I still doubled the money invested in materials and have done so over the past few days. My silver costs remain a bit high but diamond income is amazing.
5 tries to collect 2 knowledge items.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
minus 10.
While I think leveling the class should indeed be time consuming and costly both, the end result of reaching lvl 20 is well absolutely worthless. Yes yes yes there are a few ways to earn AD trust me I have found them out, the class is absolutely worth to actually craft for AD or even gold. Craft times are just stupidly high for 1 turn around, craft requirements are so high they just dont equal the cost of items to make AD or gold.
There needs to be at least 20 different dyes available to craft. thats a minumum number.
There needs to be large batch pot recipes not found in the rare.
The rare recipes should be specialty dyes, specialtly yellow and above resources or rare pots that do differing stats for differing lengths of time. IE a pot that heals for 1000 but will tick off 1000 a sec for 5 sec. the number of varations on pots would be amazing if you actually took the time to design alchemy correctly.
Yes does it need major help but will it ever get it NOPE why the make money by having poor slobs by hundreds of dollars of cash for zen to ad.
I disagree, I like the uniqueness of the Alchemist and the fact that Success (and xp) is only gained at the end.
1. Gather the ingredients
2. Combine them to make the experimental components
3. Make sure you have enough components to make at least one more experiment, because they are experiments and success is not assured. (It took me 9 experiments at level 15 to succeed, but only 6 at level 16).
4. Plan the later (level 10+) experiments for overnight so that their finish will coincide with the start of the next gaming day.
5. (optional) If you have time, set up the components for the next levels experimentation.
We shouldnt have to micro manage every 10 mins
Thanks in advance!
Edit: nvm just tested it and stats can't go over 300..for example i used the flask of potency first and it gave 225, but when i used the elixirs it only adds +75 ontop of the flask. You can get the bonus crit severity which is cool.
Then tried the flask of protection, but couldn't use the elixer with defence on it (came up with error saying already have stronger ) I could use the elixir with deflect though. Wondering if i should have tried using defense elixir first then used Flask of protection.
However, of the 4 professions that I have tried, so far, Alchemy is the worst. I'm sure some people will defend its current state because it means less competition for them, but crafting should be somewhat enjoyable, and worthwhile.
As others have pointed out, the end results are simply not worth the time and cost involved. The only purpose is to create junk to level, rather than making viable products.
The component requirements are a mess. The time and hassle of grinding out pelts and wood, then grinding out vitriol, only to have the experiments fail, is frustrating and boring. All that effort with nothing to show for it.
The worst part is when the recipes don't mesh. For example, at one point you have to make potions of lesser accuracy, and potions of lesser reflexes for the experiment. One requires 2 blue and 2 green vitriol, while the other requires 4 green vitriol. So you need them at a ratio of 6 green - 2 blue, but you can only make them at a ratio 1-1, requiring you to do a lot of excessive grinding to make up for the imbalance. An imbalance that shouldn't even be there.
I wouldn't mind the experiments failing if the components were not such a painful grind fest. Remember, this is a game, and this is supposed to be fun.
NW-DM9Pj62ZK 'Bear with Me'
NW-DOPPZAYKQ 'Retirement Plans'
NW-DKJMLS8OQ 'Sleepy in Cea Tull'
As Zanthe25 says and ...
... Leveling Alchemy Sucks Big. Period.
1. Alchemy is not profitable. Yes, I understand that developers don't want botters/gold-sellers to use it to their advantage, and I support this fully. But where botters can't profit, players can't too, see my predicament here? It's not even worth making our own health potions!
2. Lack of unique results that would be actually worth something or FUN, for the gawd's sake. We have dyes and these crit/power/stamina pots, but dyes are all dull standard colours and pots are made of expensive and rare materials, so selling these for profit on AH is hard. I haven't seen players buying or using these pots, and some of my guildies don't know that power/stamina pots exist! Maybe devs may consider decrease the duration of the pots (30 minutes is quite long), but make effects somewhat more...effective, and people will buy them for PvP or tough boss-fights?
3. Distilled health pots task is not available as a rare/batch. Why? Why crit/defense tasks aren't available as a batch, too?
4. I understand that devs don't want to add additional dye colours because of the competition with the zen store. Still, having some new ones as rare tasks would be nice. Say, Liira's or Many Arrow's dye packs tasks popping once or twice per day won't harm the profits this badly? Or this special recipe could drop during the corresponding events from the chest.
5. Poisons. It baffles me that alchemists can't make poisons to apply them to the weapons. Selling poisons at the zen-store will be clear P2W, but adding them as a rare task at level 18 at earliest (to prevent botters entering the AH and gaining AD with these!) will be great for those who bothered to level alchemy. Poisoning effects already exist in game, I don't see why they shouldn't be available as a consumable.
6. Gaining the highest level of alchemy is pointless. It gives no speed or quality bonus, doesn't count as achievement. It does give flashy title, but that's it. Meh.
A clan on Lineage2 and Neverwinter