It's not just refunds either it's loss of future income. If you say no character wipes then wipe them you lose players period end of story. To go that route you might as well close the servers now.
Reimburse everyones money back then, remove all Founder and Guardian itemization, remove any and all AD based items and remaining AD, clear the AH and let people decide wether to spend 200, 60 or 20 bucks for the packs OR play for free *after* what we know now.
You give them their Zen back. Many people got to the levels they did cause of some exploit in the foundry as I hear it. So they actually cheated to achieve the level they now have.50-60 levels in one week is not really a lot of work. Just a bunch of exploiting a borked system.
Compounding this with the *quest* exploit for AD and XP, AD farming for free, the game is broken beyond belief.
You're leaving out the simple point that when they started accepting monetary payments, they had also stated that there would be no wipes. That statement alone changes things dramatically.
Technically they accepted monetary payments long before Neverwinter came into existence, if we're talking about Zen (again, the founder's packs are an entirely different matter, and yes, those can be argued for a refund)
A beta that won't wipe I think is just a bad move. They have handcuffed themselves. It is the free to play model, but they are shooting themselves in the foot badly by offering it.
With that being said, they did offer it, and they will have to live or die by that decision. Can't wipe the characters sadly, if they made that promise then asked people to give them money to excel in this model. Otherwise their word means nothing. As much as I agree it would help the longevity of the game, economies have a way of balancing themselves out, and that will happen here as well.
I know your hope is to see this game do the best that it can, but sadly most people play these games, and invest money in these games, to become as best as they can in as short of a period of time as possible. That is how they chose to play it, and frankly they are paying most of the company salaries moving forward by doing so. It may not have the games best interest in mind, but it is what happens when they offer this type of game.
I did play WoW, as well as a few other MMOs. The reality I have learned with all of them is that everyone plays to their own needs and desires, and trying to control those is a thankless and useless task (this thread should point that out clearly, lol). Find a bunch of like minded people, and ignore the rest. If you don't, this game will not be enjoyable to you.
And though I have been in here since Alpha, I just rolled a toon up last night for the first time in open beta (5 levels), so my level has nothing to do with my opinions.
While I somewhat agree with you, the fact remains that in beta, anything can change, even without notice.
Reimburse everyones money back then, remove all Founder and Guardian itemization, remove any and all AD based items and remaining AD, clear the AH and let people decide wether to spend 200, 60 or 20 bucks for the packs OR play for free *after* what we know now.
I think we all know where that would go, hmmm?
You don't get it do you, it has nothing to do with p2w how much you paid or not. It has to do with playing thinking you get to keep your toon then having it ganked out from you by the devs in contradiction of what was previously said. It's a pr nightmare that would prevent people from joining, make people leave, and reduce the population of the game the same way nuke reduces the population of a city.
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denverralphyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 145Bounty Hunter
Technically they accepted monetary payments long before Neverwinter came into existence, if we're talking about Zen (again, the founder's packs are an entirely different matter, and yes, those can be argued for a refund)
It would apply to Zen too. Zen has an inherent cash value since it's purchased with real world cash. Any Zen transferred to the Neverwinter account would also fall under protection, since it can be easily argued that Joe Player only allowed himself to transfer zen to his Neverwinter account because he had been informed there'd be no wipe.
It would apply to Zen too. Zen has an inherent cash value since it's purchased with real world cash. Any Zen transferred to the Neverwinter account would also fall under protection, since it can be easily argued that Joe Player only allowed himself to transfer zen to his Neverwinter account because he had been informed there'd be no wipe.
Hence they just reimburse the Zen. Your Zen is thus protected.
That is an exaggeration Taemekeg. Broken beyond belief would have me leaving and not discussing things here.
Well, yeah, maybe, but they sure aren't showing any signs of wanting to fix it. I think you can agree on that. The lack of communication is beyond belief. 8- )
Well, yeah, maybe, but they sure aren't showing any signs of wanting to fix it. I think you can agree on that. The lack of communication is beyond belief. 8- )
They arent telling us what they are doing, must mean they arent going to do anything. Yup seems legit.
rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
edited May 2013
Just one example off the top of my head: Nightmare Lockboxes. Someone bought a key and got the mount on the first try. Net cost $1.25. There is a wipe and that same person now opens 50 boxes and still didn't get a mount. Net cost ~$50 or whatever. Yeah that person is really going to stick around to play this game.
They said no character wipes after closed beta so not even sure why you're arguing it so much. Weren't you done with this thread a few pages ago?
They arent telling us what they are doing, must mean they arent going to do anything. Yup seems legit.
Yeah no, thats totally what I meant, TOTS.
Anyways, try to use some common sense, considering this is beta and we have had some pretty hefty and serious issues not only with the leveling and AD farming issues, but some considerably issues with characters mechanics and not a single reply saying they are at least looking in to it, yes, does seem pretty legit to me.
Anyways, try to use some common sense, considering this is beta and we have had some pretty hefty and serious issues not only with the leveling and AD farming issues, but some considerably issues with characters mechanics and not a single reply saying they are at least looking in to it, yes, does seem pretty legit to me.
Or they are busy working on different solutions and dont have time to hold you hand and tell you everything will be ok.
Just one example off the top of my head: Nightmare Lockboxes. Someone bought a key and got the mount on the first try. Net cost $1.25. There is a wipe and that same person now opens 50 boxes and still didn't get a mount. Net cost ~$50 or whatever. Yeah that person is really going to stick around to play this game.
They said no character wipes after closed beta so not even sure why you're arguing it so much. Weren't you done with this thread a few pages ago?
But it is Open Beta, you sign up through the EULA knowing this and that anything can change without notice.
Well, yeah, maybe, but they sure aren't showing any signs of wanting to fix it. I think you can agree on that. The lack of communication is beyond belief. 8- )
Lack of communication is exactly what I have experienced for the last 11 years of on forums for games in general. *SHRUG* It is in fact par for the course in my experience. And it has been so because the fan base will beat up the Game developer till they do actually, not give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> any more.
Like I have said before, 60 levels in a week of gaming is a failed game! If we are maxed out after that short a time what will keep us interested in the game?
Lack of communication is exactly what I have experienced for the last 11 years of on forums for games in general. *SHRUG* It is in fact par for the course in my experience. And it has been so because the fan base will beat up the Game developer till they do actually, not give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> any more.
Like I have said before, 60 levels in a week of gaming is a failed game! If we are maxed out after that short a time what will keep us interested in the game?
I agree with most of what you are saying except the lack of communication during beta.
Any form of beta generally returns a few devs posting they are on top of the issues.
How many replies to any legit issues (not forum rants or whining) that have been done in a very constructive manner and orderly fashion recieve a reply stating they are at least on top of it or looking into the issue?
Scroll through the first 1 - 4 pages of each class section, zero replies.
Anyways, you seem to be the more level headed people here who is switched on and I respect you for that.
The state the game is in demands some form of response on many issues. Not just this one. Especially after what some people have paid out already for the game future progress.
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startuxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 49
edited May 2013
They have been very communicative on Facebook and Twitter, but not your alleged issue. Notice, I said alleged as a player you don't have access to the metrics which they as a company will have access to.
An entire wipe is not the answer, maybe a wipe/ban on the offending accounts will be more tolerated, if your allegations are backed up by hard data.
Just a random consideration: perhaps a temporary shift back to closed beta (no more new accounts) would help with some of the issues? It would mean that any account bans would stick, no one loses anything, and they can then work to get the various problems fixed before re-releasing it to public.
EDIT: Also, there is the option of giving a benefit to everyone who suffers a wipe: Obviously Zen has to be refunded, they could possibly do a selective wipe (meaning everyone is re-equipped with basic gear for their class, no items at all other than quest rewards they would've gotten for their level or having quests reset), and a gift to everyone, BoP, like ponies for all?
NW is a broken mess at the moment. I hope the lack of developer communication means they're working on it feverishly. There are so many game bugs that even cost PWE potential revenue it's silly.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
I never paid for an advantage.. I bought founders to support the company and the unique mount. I've rerolled so many times until I found the class I wanted to play.. he's currently lvl 21, so advantage, I don't think so.
Regardless, cheaters who exploited levels don't affect me one bit, nor my enjoyment of the game.
QQ moar!
So an epic mount, free gear, 2 million AD is not an advantage? Hmm interesting take on it but complete BS. I'm not the one QQing though. It takes no time to level in this game regardless of how it's done but many people have paid money for Zen. They'd have a ****storm on their hands if people lost that after being told there would be no wipe.
I don't expect the DEVs to answer a single question, on the forums. They have better things to do than hold my hand on a forum. Now if I submit a ticket and hear nothing, then I have a problem.
This isn't my first Beta (open or closed), but the complaints of a games development can be cut and pasted from one forum to the next with little editing. Including how crappy a DEVs response is on forum. I have only known one developer to have excellent response time to questions and he was a one man operation making a game sheet program.
But it is Open Beta, you sign up through the EULA knowing this and that anything can change without notice.
Why so mad?
No, I "signed up" for open beta based on them saying there would be no more wipes. I had no problem playing during closed beta knowing my character would be wiped.
Not sure what about my message was "mad" but hey.. Make up whatever you want. I'll continue to enjoy the game and you can keep on fighting the good fight.
But it is Open Beta, you sign up through the EULA knowing this and that anything can change without notice.
Why so mad?
Using the same "Beta" rationale... You knowingly entered into the game under beta status, so you can't be surprised that there will be issues or bugs that may get exploited. All you can reasonably hope for is that those exploits get patched.
The only constant in the debate, is that NW stated quite clearly that there would be no more wipes
I know that I don't want to start over. Refunding my Zen won't do any good, since NW can't guarantee that I will get back my lockbox items for the same price, nor that the gear I've purchased can be purchased again at the same number of ADs.
Comments
Reimburse everyones money back then, remove all Founder and Guardian itemization, remove any and all AD based items and remaining AD, clear the AH and let people decide wether to spend 200, 60 or 20 bucks for the packs OR play for free *after* what we know now.
I think we all know where that would go, hmmm?
Compounding this with the *quest* exploit for AD and XP, AD farming for free, the game is broken beyond belief.
Technically they accepted monetary payments long before Neverwinter came into existence, if we're talking about Zen (again, the founder's packs are an entirely different matter, and yes, those can be argued for a refund)
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
While I somewhat agree with you, the fact remains that in beta, anything can change, even without notice.
It would apply to Zen too. Zen has an inherent cash value since it's purchased with real world cash. Any Zen transferred to the Neverwinter account would also fall under protection, since it can be easily argued that Joe Player only allowed himself to transfer zen to his Neverwinter account because he had been informed there'd be no wipe.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Will there be a character wipe before Headstart begins?
Yes.
Well, yeah, maybe, but they sure aren't showing any signs of wanting to fix it. I think you can agree on that. The lack of communication is beyond belief. 8- )
And headstart has been over for a while. Yay
They arent telling us what they are doing, must mean they arent going to do anything. Yup seems legit.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
They said no character wipes after closed beta so not even sure why you're arguing it so much. Weren't you done with this thread a few pages ago?
Yeah no, thats totally what I meant, TOTS.
Anyways, try to use some common sense, considering this is beta and we have had some pretty hefty and serious issues not only with the leveling and AD farming issues, but some considerably issues with characters mechanics and not a single reply saying they are at least looking in to it, yes, does seem pretty legit to me.
Or they are busy working on different solutions and dont have time to hold you hand and tell you everything will be ok.
But it is Open Beta, you sign up through the EULA knowing this and that anything can change without notice.
Why so mad?
Like I have said before, 60 levels in a week of gaming is a failed game! If we are maxed out after that short a time what will keep us interested in the game?
Because adding more cash shop items is the answer, clearly, right? That will fix issues that are driving people away.
A little bit of communication goes a long way sunshine, learn some people skills, no one is asking to be hand held.
I agree with most of what you are saying except the lack of communication during beta.
Any form of beta generally returns a few devs posting they are on top of the issues.
How many replies to any legit issues (not forum rants or whining) that have been done in a very constructive manner and orderly fashion recieve a reply stating they are at least on top of it or looking into the issue?
Scroll through the first 1 - 4 pages of each class section, zero replies.
Anyways, you seem to be the more level headed people here who is switched on and I respect you for that.
The state the game is in demands some form of response on many issues. Not just this one. Especially after what some people have paid out already for the game future progress.
An entire wipe is not the answer, maybe a wipe/ban on the offending accounts will be more tolerated, if your allegations are backed up by hard data.
EDIT: Also, there is the option of giving a benefit to everyone who suffers a wipe: Obviously Zen has to be refunded, they could possibly do a selective wipe (meaning everyone is re-equipped with basic gear for their class, no items at all other than quest rewards they would've gotten for their level or having quests reset), and a gift to everyone, BoP, like ponies for all?
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
So an epic mount, free gear, 2 million AD is not an advantage? Hmm interesting take on it but complete BS. I'm not the one QQing though. It takes no time to level in this game regardless of how it's done but many people have paid money for Zen. They'd have a ****storm on their hands if people lost that after being told there would be no wipe.
This isn't my first Beta (open or closed), but the complaints of a games development can be cut and pasted from one forum to the next with little editing. Including how crappy a DEVs response is on forum. I have only known one developer to have excellent response time to questions and he was a one man operation making a game sheet program.
No, I "signed up" for open beta based on them saying there would be no more wipes. I had no problem playing during closed beta knowing my character would be wiped.
Not sure what about my message was "mad" but hey.. Make up whatever you want. I'll continue to enjoy the game and you can keep on fighting the good fight.
Using the same "Beta" rationale... You knowingly entered into the game under beta status, so you can't be surprised that there will be issues or bugs that may get exploited. All you can reasonably hope for is that those exploits get patched.
The only constant in the debate, is that NW stated quite clearly that there would be no more wipes
I know that I don't want to start over. Refunding my Zen won't do any good, since NW can't guarantee that I will get back my lockbox items for the same price, nor that the gear I've purchased can be purchased again at the same number of ADs.
Just like Secks addiction is an excuse to not own up to the wife. . .