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Metzli's Dungeon DPS Guide

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  • solsol1337solsol1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 241 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    The bleed lasts for 10 seconds, It takes about 2.5 to charge up. So you essentially have 7.5 seconds to do everything else between casts of flurry. Wicked reminder has about a 5 second timer....so it is reasonably easy to maintain if you're using impossible to catch (like you said you were).
  • enderlin50enderlin50 Member Posts: 993 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I'm a big fan of the way this build is setup. I'm a newer 60. Should shoot for 2400 Armor Pen, 2900 Recovery, how much Critical rating should I shoot for?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • solsol1337solsol1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 241 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    You shouldn't shoot for 2900 recovery. Did I not change it to say that?....and it says how much crit in the same place you got those numbers.
  • enderlin50enderlin50 Member Posts: 993 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    solsol1337 wrote: »
    You shouldn't shoot for 2900 recovery. Did I not change it to say that?....and it says how much crit in the same place you got those numbers.
    After this recovery may be better than power to a certain point, but definitely less than 2900. After 2900, recovery loses value at a rate of ~3% per 200.


    I assumed from that 2900 is the stopping point
    If you have a 25% vorpal enchant, you are aiming for ~3500 crit rating.
    If you have a 12% vorpal enchant, you are aiming for ~2750 crit rating.
    If you have no vorpal enchant, you are aiming for about 2000 crit rating.

    ^Ah sorry not sure how I missed this part, but what about the recovery?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • solsol1337solsol1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 241 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    The note on recovery was meant to say I don't have a hard number. It gives you the point where the DR kicks in.
  • itsjzkitsjzk Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Any updated builds yet?
  • solsol1337solsol1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 241 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
  • wewillfailurewewillfailure Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    assuming i have a greater vorpal, do i need to get like 4,25k crit, to get the full potential of that vorpal?
  • solsol1337solsol1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 241 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    The crit caps I post are just the points where power becomes better than crit. With more crit severity crit rating scales better.
  • enderlin50enderlin50 Member Posts: 993 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Sol do you feel Executioner needs slightly rebuffed back up or will it stay as is?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • solsol1337solsol1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 241 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I haven't really played any dungeons since the nerfs so I can't really speak on how we are in comparison to other classes. I do definately feel that we were not so overpowered that such a big nerf to executioner was necessary though.

    My thoughts on the rogue changes are basically that the team failed to accomplish anything good at all for overall balance or the rogue class. We needed something to make scoundrel competitive and different, as well as maybe making other classes be less far behind on single target damage. The only thing they really accomplished was fixing a bug that in turn was a major dps nerf.
  • eikooneikoon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 97
    edited June 2013
  • solsol1337solsol1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 241 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Nimble blades is worth 3.5% dps at most, but it does not apply to the bleed at all (this would be hard to prove but I am pretty confident that this is a fact based on how other things interact with the bleed) so it's actually at most 1.5-2% dps. Deadly Momentum is more along the lines if 7-8% damage buff. 5% crit is worth about the same as deadly momentum, maybe more.

    So did anyone test to be sure that only one bonus is counted per rogue from critical teamwork? If only one is counted then yes, it would be worthwhile to drop those points for something else when playing with 2 rogues.
  • wewillfailurewewillfailure Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    solsol1337 wrote: »
    The crit caps I post are just the points where power becomes better than crit. With more crit severity crit rating scales better.

    so, some1 or even u mentioned that per rank of vorpal u have to put 750crit+ in ur gear. does this rule of thumb even apply here as well? so with greater vorpal ~4250 crit? what would u personaly do in this situation ?
  • eikooneikoon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 97
    edited June 2013
    yeah crit only applies 1x for 2 rogues (since i stay at 50% even with another exe rogue).
  • solsol1337solsol1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 241 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I did not calculate past the 25% vorpal, but that same rule should apply yes. The number may be lower than 750 since crit DR starts around 2000 (meaning that crit scaling is inherently worse as you get more of it, even counting in a larger vorpal). If you can find the post where I got the 750 number you can probably follow the math to get a more exact answer.
  • eikooneikoon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 97
    edited June 2013
    so, some1 or even u mentioned that per rank of vorpal u have to put 750crit+ in ur gear. does this rule of thumb even apply here as well? so with greater vorpal ~4250 crit? what would u personaly do in this situation ?

    might be % based? it gives you crit - but if you reach amount "xx" via dex/class/whatsoever you have to reconsider.
  • solsol1337solsol1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 241 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Stop telling people that % crit means anything in terms of DR. It does not. Crit rating DR increases with Crit rating and Crit rating only. You can have dexterity to the moon and all the free crit you want from feats and this will not change.

    If I remember right the basic idea behind the 750 crit rating was that this was an average that I noticed when I calculated how much the value of crit rating increases in terms of power as you add 12 and 25% crit severity from vorpal enchants. It's basically just an average pulled off a spreadsheet.
  • eikooneikoon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 97
    edited June 2013
    so you get me wrong i guess.

    but i you have a goal - say 50% crit - and you reach a certain amount of it via dex you have to put less into crit enchantment/items to reach that amount. so say he got 50% crit via dex + xxxx crit (via enchants/items) and stays under your rating for crit - why go up to xxxx crit if you only aim for 50% (EXAMPLE)

    edit: or am i wrong and its worth it to have 3500 crit (example: normal vorp) even if you are over a certain amount and you can put other enchants in your items?
  • solsol1337solsol1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 241 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Because aiming for a percentage has nothing to do with optimizing your dps. More crit % is always better dps as long as you are under your crit rating cap. The crit rating cap is saying that up to that amount crit rating is better than other stats.

    Or maybe in terms that you seem to think in: If you want to have 50% crit, and you get 50% crit just from dex, that does not mean crit rating is suddenly not better than power or recovery. Crit rating will still give you more dps up until the cap.
  • stardrinkrerstardrinkrer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    eikoon wrote: »
    yeah crit only applies 1x for 2 rogues (since i stay at 50% even with another exe rogue).

    I'm wondering if different ranks of Critical Teamwork will stack. Say, 4/5 and 5/5 will stack but 5/5 and 5/5 won't.

    Just wondering.
  • eikooneikoon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 97
    edited June 2013
    ok now i get it :) ty
  • eikooneikoon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 97
    edited June 2013
    I'm wondering if different ranks of Critical Teamwork will stack. Say, 4/5 and 5/5 will stack but 5/5 and 5/5 won't.

    Just wondering.

    never tried it - shouldn't work - but hey its neverwinter :)
  • cbrowne0329cbrowne0329 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    enderlin50 wrote: »
    Sol do you feel Executioner needs slightly rebuffed back up or will it stay as is?

    For dungeons I no longer use SE... it's useless when my backstab does more damage 90% of the time. Switched to Courage breaker and Whirling blades as CB is REALLY useful on bosses and Whirling blades consistently more damage. hell on a single target even Bloodbath does more damage consistently now.
  • fimcontefimconte Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    For dungeons I no longer use SE... it's useless when my backstab does more damage 90% of the time. Switched to Courage breaker and Whirling blades as CB is REALLY useful on bosses and Whirling blades consistently more damage. hell on a single target even Bloodbath does more damage consistently now.

    There's no reason to use anything other than Lurker's imho.
    Fans Glory to the Gladiators,
    Gods Glory to the Heroes.

    TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
    GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
  • f3ral0nef3ral0ne Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 74
    edited June 2013
    fimconte wrote: »
    There's no reason to use anything other than Lurker's imho.

    Pretty much. Although I made a neat debuffer rogue build and messed around with it. But it does HAMSTER dmg lol
  • pednickpednick Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I've noticed you edited your page on 06-17-2013 which is most recently. Did that include the feats graphic?

    Feats
    You should drop the Devestating shroud feats (the ones that buff shocking execution) and take either the 1% AP on kill, or 10% threat reduction feat, depending on your needs. I will update the graphic later on.
    Be a Leet D00D, can't think of something smart? Always blame the economy.
  • eikooneikoon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 97
    edited June 2013
    any early thoughts on the new pvp set?

    nvm. posted a thread dealing with that issue -> check out forums.
  • psupiratepsupirate Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Great guide.

    It's just crazy to me that a half-orc rogue is far more ideal than a halfling rogue. The racials just seem all out of wack.
  • discountbobdiscountbob Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Well, it was similar in other iterations of D&D...sort of. The half-orc had the most damage potential, but would have to suffer with lower reflex/initiative/detection/etc. rolls. In this game, though, that's all more standardized. So you kind of get around the negatives (other than the looks).
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