All i can add to this discussion is this - learn to use properly the Auction House = get rich in 1 week .
I'd like to point out that this isnt going to last long. Right now it is a cash cow cause the farmers and exploiters are at the top and that is pretty much it. Probably not for a week or so though and people will start farming the dungeons themselves.
If I havent offended you today....dont worry!!!....there's always tomorrow. Of course, you could also go to here for all I care.
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ignasius14Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited May 2013
I wonder why so many people care about this. I bought the $60 founder pack primarily so I could play the Closed Beta weekends and test a game that I have hope for. I havent spent a cent after. All this complaining about high auction house prices is unwarranted, its called go do the Dungeons to get your epic gear. Is it so hard to just play a game and relish the moments when that nice purple drops and you win the loot roll?
Most likely the only one who has read every Salvatore book since he started and wont name myself Drizzt, Wulfgar, Bruenor, ect.
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ignasius14Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited May 2013
Though I will concur with the fact that disenchanting is waaaaaayyyy too expensive
Most likely the only one who has read every Salvatore book since he started and wont name myself Drizzt, Wulfgar, Bruenor, ect.
Is it so hard to just play a game and relish the moments when that nice purple drops and you win the loot roll?
That feeling is taken away by checking the auction house after you win the loot roll and seeing 4+ pages of the same item listed for various amounts of Astral Diamonds people can get by using real money to convert Zen into them.
0
jorealMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Players do not like this. They do not like feeling as if all the time they invested to get in a good guild, run the dungeons however many nights a week looking for a certain drop, and finally getting said drop means nothing because someone else can just swipe their card and have it for no effort whatsoever. This information is all over the place, it's not new, it's not a secret, and I don't know why everyone and their dog is acting like it's perfectly okay. This is the reason why free to play games generally get a lot of complaints and suck hard.
Speak for yourself. Just because you judge your gameplay based on that doesn't mean that anyone else does. I choose not to bias my fun and gameplay based on what other people are doing in the game. I play the game because I enjoy the content, the people I'm playing with, and time that spend experiencing the game. It doesn't matter to me one bit if I have the absolute best gear in the game at any given moment or if I'm the first to down a boss. This is one of the main reason why I became so disappointed by WoW. The set the bar so low for downing the content on the easiest level that you have to replay the content multiple times before you even get an opportunity to try it on the hard mode. By then the game has lost its sparkle and its appeal to me. There is nothing to strive for other than to climb the 1000 stair steps to the top. It just takes time.
The problem is that many people feel as though others achievements some how diminish their experiences. Why does it matter if it took someone else 5 mins to swipe their credit card and it took you 10 days of grinding. If anything you should feel more invested in your character because you did the extra work to get it. But in reality the only reason you should feel that way is if you feel as though you have some status symbol that anyone else cares about. What makes you think that anyone else cares about what YOU are doing in the game? Is the fact that I am all decked out in epics mean that I have some greater quality than you in the game? No it doesn't, at least not unless you choose to revere me because of my achievements.
Not everything is a competition. You don't HAVE to compare yourself to everyone else in the game. You should give it a try some time and just play the game because its a fun game to play. You can compete in PVP and not actually care about whether or not you win the match. Sometimes just playing the game is the fun part. To each their own though...only you can decide what is fun.
0
ignasius14Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 19Arc User
That feeling is taken away by checking the auction house after you win the loot roll and seeing 4+ pages of the same item listed for various amounts of Astral Diamonds people can get by using real money to convert Zen into them.
But my point is why care? I played through dungeons, won some nice loot, enjoyed the experience. So they paid money, good for them, not my problem that they blew AD on gear they can just earn
Most likely the only one who has read every Salvatore book since he started and wont name myself Drizzt, Wulfgar, Bruenor, ect.
0
stonedbillMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
OP you are correct, but you worded it horribly by singling out the only people that will keep this game alive till August-October, the span in which it will definitely be floating in the same levels of the mediocre MMO space with the rest of this company's games. That is why everyone is blowing up this thread; you offended them. They spent $200 and they have the right to defend their purchase. Hell, I paid $60 for the game and don't feel like I got a damned thing worth my time but for some reason the PvP is keeping me slightly entertained in my quest for Wildstar/TESO patience or lackthereof.
The reason why this game is pay to win is because I can join as a free account right now, level something to 60, buy some zen convert it to AD and go buy all of the top tier dungeon gear right off the auction house without ever stepping foot into the dungeons in which they came from. This is the point people seem to miss. And I'm sorry but this game won't ever get anything beyond "epic dungeons with boss fights that have no more difficult mechanics than summoning adds." You can defend the company all you want, but you and I both know that this game won't get heavy content updates like that. They might add more "epic" dungeons at some point but that's pretty much it, so yes, the gear you get from the current epic dungeons is indeed endgame/top tier gear. While mounts do give an advantage in PvP, the bind on equip items affects every single person playing the game no matter which side (PvE or PvP they take part in). All it takes for me to out-DPS you, out-heal you, out-tank you/whatever is to go look up a cookie cutter build on the forums, punch in my credit card number and buy up all the gear you worked for in the top tier dungeons and boom, I win.
That is called pay to win. If you argue with that.. I don't know what to tell you other than "it's staring you in the face."
Players do not like this. They do not like feeling as if all the time they invested to get in a good guild, run the dungeons however many nights a week looking for a certain drop, and finally getting said drop means nothing because someone else can just swipe their card and have it for no effort whatsoever. This information is all over the place, it's not new, it's not a secret, and I don't know why everyone and their dog is acting like it's perfectly okay. This is the reason why free to play games generally get a lot of complaints and suck hard.
Thankyou for this. +100
Smoke@stonedbill - Mindflayer - 60 Rogue
0
seariouslyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Speak for yourself. Just because you judge your gameplay based on that doesn't mean that anyone else does. I choose not to bias my fun and gameplay based on what other people are doing in the game. I play the game because I enjoy the content, the people I'm playing with, and time that spend experiencing the game. It doesn't matter to me one bit if I have the absolute best gear in the game at any given moment or if I'm the first to down a boss. This is one of the main reason why I became so disappointed by WoW. The set the bar so low for downing the content on the easiest level that you have to replay the content multiple times before you even get an opportunity to try it on the hard mode. By then the game has lost its sparkle and its appeal to me. There is nothing to strive for other than to climb the 1000 stair steps to the top. It just takes time.
The problem is that many people feel as though others achievements some how diminish their experiences. Why does it matter if it took someone else 5 mins to swipe their credit card and it took you 10 days of grinding. If anything you should feel more invested in your character because you did the extra work to get it. But in reality the only reason you should feel that way is if you feel as though you have some status symbol that anyone else cares about. What makes you think that anyone else cares about what YOU are doing in the game? Is the fact that I am all decked out in epics mean that I have some greater quality than you in the game? No it doesn't, at least not unless you choose to revere me because of my achievements.
Not everything is a competition. You don't HAVE to compare yourself to everyone else in the game. You should give it a try some time and just play the game because its a fun game to play. You can compete in PVP and not actually care about whether or not you win the match. Sometimes just playing the game is the fun part. To each their own though...only you can decide what is fun.
Edit: My point in linking that is to point out that my walls of text aren't as much my opinions as they are the general crowd MMORPGs need to keep around in order to keep the game alive.
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seariouslyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
thank you, you said it way better than I did, I am also waiting for Wildstar so i can stop playing this game.
OP you are correct, but you worded it horribly by singling out the only people that will keep this game alive till August-October, the span in which it will definitely be floating in the same levels of the mediocre MMO space with the rest of this company's games. That is why everyone is blowing up this thread; you offended them. They spent $200 and they have the right to defend their purchase. Hell, I paid $60 for the game and don't feel like I got a damned thing worth my time but for some reason the PvP is keeping me slightly entertained in my quest for Wildstar/TESO patience or lackthereof.
The reason why this game is pay to win is because I can join as a free account right now, level something to 60, buy some zen convert it to AD and go buy all of the top tier dungeon gear right off the auction house without ever stepping foot into the dungeons in which they came from. This is the point people seem to miss. And I'm sorry but this game won't ever get anything beyond "epic dungeons with boss fights that have no more difficult mechanics than summoning adds." You can defend the company all you want, but you and I both know that this game won't get heavy content updates like that. They might add more "epic" dungeons at some point but that's pretty much it, so yes, the gear you get from the current epic dungeons is indeed endgame/top tier gear. While mounts do give an advantage in PvP, the bind on equip items affects every single person playing the game no matter which side (PvE or PvP they take part in). All it takes for me to out-DPS you, out-heal you, out-tank you/whatever is to go look up a cookie cutter build on the forums, punch in my credit card number and buy up all the gear you worked for in the top tier dungeons and boom, I win.
That is called pay to win. If you argue with that.. I don't know what to tell you other than "it's staring you in the face."
Players do not like this. They do not like feeling as if all the time they invested to get in a good guild, run the dungeons however many nights a week looking for a certain drop, and finally getting said drop means nothing because someone else can just swipe their card and have it for no effort whatsoever. This information is all over the place, it's not new, it's not a secret, and I don't know why everyone and their dog is acting like it's perfectly okay. This is the reason why free to play games generally get a lot of complaints and suck hard.
0
jorealMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yeah that is one opinion of how microtransaction can work. It isn't the only way and to be honest I don't feel exploited when I give money to game companies. IMO most of the people I see complaining about the microtransactions are complaining about the fact that they have to give ANY money to the game company. Regardless of what they are getting out of it.
The game is not better because I play it. I play it because the game is good. The game will go on with or without me so having the choice to invest as little or as much in the game as I want is a huge boon IMO. The reality is that the only way that people feel exploited is if they have to pay for equal ground in the game. NW does not require this in any way shape or form. You can get EVERYTHING via the AD <> Zen market through grinding. There is literally nothing you have to pay for if you want everything in the game.
If the best items in the game could only be purchased through the cash shop I would agree with you, but they aren't. They are drops in the dungeons and you can farm them to your hearts content. You can even farm them, sell them on the AH, and buy all the cash shop stuff that other people are buying with their real money.
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jorealMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
thank you, you said it way better than I did, I am also waiting for Wildstar so i can stop playing this game.
Since when does this game require you to play? LOL I didn't realize that they had some indentured servitude program. If you don't like it then don't play it.
Since when does this game require you to play? LOL I didn't realize that they had some indentured servitude program. If you don't like it then don't play it.
Honestly, I'm willing to bet that a ton of people currently playing this game are just using it as a free-ish option to tide them over till the two AAA's (Wildstar and The Elder Scrolls Online) come out, whenever that is. And this is borderline conspiracy theory but I'd also be willing to bet that Perfect World Entertainment knows this and that is why they made everything so expensive; simply so they could make a ton of money and cash out right before the bigger games come out. That way, they don't have to keep developing anymore content and they make a ton of money off suckers that didn't clearly see the lack of difference between the $30 bear with no armor on and the $40 bear with armor on.
thank you, you said it way better than I did, I am also waiting for Wildstar so i can stop playing this game.
I feel like a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> but I just realized I got you mixed up with the shadeypwnz or whatever his name is that made the "To the Heroes of the North" thread. So disregard the
but you worded it horribly by singling out the only people that will keep this game alive till August-October
part
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wingnut3026Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
You are a complete moron & here is why
#1 - There is NO gear that you can buy with ZEN that gives you an advantage in the game.
#2 - PoE is a Hack & Slash; Neverwinter is an MMO - The 2 games are different
#3 - There are NO XP scrolls to be bought in Neverwinter, just like in PoE - So why talk about that?
#4 - AD can be made by selling stuff looted in the world on the AH. You can even sell PvP gear that you grind out with Glory and PvE gear that you buy with seals. There are PLENTY of ways to get AD.
#5 - FASTER mounts, while efficient, do not help me tank better in dungeons, and do not allow me to cap flags faster in PvP (or do more damage).
#6 - Where are these "POWER STATS" that you mention? I have SCOURED the Zen market looking for these power stats, and I can't seem to find them...obviously you are dumb.
So according to your definition of "Pay to Win" - you have no idea what you are talking about. Nothing included in your definition is included in the Zen market.
Now...games that are "Free to Play" MUST make money. If they do not, then they do not exist. I personally prefer the F2P model, because if I don't like the game, I can stop playing, and I have invested nothing. If I do enjoy it, then I have no problem investing money (I work for a living so I can enjoy the things I want to enjoy).
I currently have almost 7 million AD in Neverwinter. I saw a screenshot of a guildy who has almost 12 million AD. we both made our money the same way...buy low, sell high. We do the same thing in every game. If I loot something I don't need, I sell it. I play the game to have fun and part of having fun is AH manipulation. I like to figure out the market. If you or anyone else is to dense to figure that out, then please go back to your care-bear game and your $15/month sub + $60/game|XPac.
Bottom line, if you are too poor to pay some money to the folks who made a wonderful game, then STFU about the people who DO pay real money and support the devs. At the end of the day, it comes down to the Benjamins. If PW makes no $$, then there is no game. Don't dog on people who want to support the game because they have extra cash and you don't. Get a JOB!
See ya all in the T2 Dungeons!
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senix187Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Dont lissen to this guy all he does is troll the forum.! check his posts.
0
sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
I agree that in terms of top end gear purchase from AH can be consider "pay to win" as in you didn't have to go into high end instance, you get the gear. This part I think it is a bit odd since usually high end gear requires that character to enter the instance and earn it, but I guess that is one way to earn AD.
I agree that in terms of top end gear purchase from AH can be consider "pay to win" as in you didn't have to go into high end instance, you get the gear. This part I think it is a bit odd since usually high end gear requires that character to enter the instance and earn it, but I guess that is one way to earn AD.
To me this is the only true pay-to-win part of the game and the most off-putting. I'm surprised this topic is not discussed instead of mounts, enchants, companions which are all trivial in comparison. The same thing in Diablo 3, why work for the gear when you can just buy the very best off the AH?
0
jorealMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Honestly, I'm willing to bet that a ton of people currently playing this game are just using it as a free-ish option to tide them over till the two AAA's (Wildstar and The Elder Scrolls Online) come out, whenever that is. And this is borderline conspiracy theory but I'd also be willing to bet that Perfect World Entertainment knows this and that is why they made everything so expensive; simply so they could make a ton of money and cash out right before the bigger games come out. That way, they don't have to keep developing anymore content and they make a ton of money off suckers that didn't clearly see the lack of difference between the $30 bear with no armor on and the $40 bear with armor on.
You can bet that all you want but that doesn't make it true. I won't be playing ESO unless it has a combat system that doesn't blow *** like all the single player games. I don't know many people who like real life simulators so we'll see what it's like. It's naive to think that cryptic is trying for a 2-3 month game cycle otherwise why make it an mmo at all. This might not be the long term game for you but that doesn't make it true for all. Stop playing if you don't like it we won't miss you
Pay to win is if a player pays he gets stats bonus and an advantage. Clearly if you pay and buy zen, you will buy power, which is an unfair advantage to someone who is playing the game strictly for free.
For example, if I spend $200, and you spend $0, will I have an unfair advantage against you? Better companion, better equipments, better professions, better enchantments?
Better companions yes but what good are they in PvP? Better equipment sure if you really don't want to take the time to run dungeons. Better professions also not sure how it effects PvP. Enchantments you can get the wards via prayer and you can have multiple character for pray to help speed up getting the wards if you don't want to just farm AD. so clearly this game isn't P2W and you have never played a true P2W or you would know this is not one.
0
acintheiraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Your argument(?): The game is pay to win
Counter argument: You can win without paying
No True scotsman: If you didn't pay then you didn't win (?)
I think we need to define win here. If "win" is to enjoy the game, get the best gear available, and see all of the content I am interested in, then I can win with out paying anything. If "win" is to enjoy the game, get the best gear available, and see all of the content I am interested in as fast as posible, then I can not win without paying. Win really needs a better definition.
I think we need to define win here. If "win" is to enjoy the game, get the best gear available, and see all of the content I am interested in, then I can win with out paying anything. If "win" is to enjoy the game, get the best gear available, and see all of the content I am interested in at a reasonable pace, then I can not win without paying. Win really needs a better definition.
Fixt' that there for ya.
If I havent offended you today....dont worry!!!....there's always tomorrow. Of course, you could also go to here for all I care.
0
seariouslyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
you can purchase the best gears off the AH, without ever going into any instances. because they are bind on equip and not bind on pickup
You can buy an advantage over someone who has not spent any money. You can buy power (stats) that will make you stronger than pay to play players. Players who are 100% playing for free will always be behind because players who pay will always be ahead in terms of gears and progression.
Wrong.
Pay to win is when you can ONLY obtain a given advantage by spending real money. If those advantages are accessible through simply playing the game then it is no longer pay to win. It is pay to keep up with those who have time to spend rather than money.
Time or Money, you have to spend one or the other. You choose.
If you pay to get the best gear, then what was the point of playing in the first place? The point of instances is to enjoy the content and collect better gear. If you just buy the gear, than you don't need to run the content, which means you don't need to level to get to the content, which means... why are you even playing in the first place?
Think of it this way - subscription MMOs cost between $10-15 a month, whether you play or not. This game costs you $0 unless you want to spend money. You are not forced to buy Zen to convert it to AD to buy gear from the AH. Go level up and get the gear yourself. Other people spending money is what keeps the game running so everyone else can play for free in the first place.
Comments
I'd like to point out that this isnt going to last long. Right now it is a cash cow cause the farmers and exploiters are at the top and that is pretty much it. Probably not for a week or so though and people will start farming the dungeons themselves.
That feeling is taken away by checking the auction house after you win the loot roll and seeing 4+ pages of the same item listed for various amounts of Astral Diamonds people can get by using real money to convert Zen into them.
Speak for yourself. Just because you judge your gameplay based on that doesn't mean that anyone else does. I choose not to bias my fun and gameplay based on what other people are doing in the game. I play the game because I enjoy the content, the people I'm playing with, and time that spend experiencing the game. It doesn't matter to me one bit if I have the absolute best gear in the game at any given moment or if I'm the first to down a boss. This is one of the main reason why I became so disappointed by WoW. The set the bar so low for downing the content on the easiest level that you have to replay the content multiple times before you even get an opportunity to try it on the hard mode. By then the game has lost its sparkle and its appeal to me. There is nothing to strive for other than to climb the 1000 stair steps to the top. It just takes time.
The problem is that many people feel as though others achievements some how diminish their experiences. Why does it matter if it took someone else 5 mins to swipe their credit card and it took you 10 days of grinding. If anything you should feel more invested in your character because you did the extra work to get it. But in reality the only reason you should feel that way is if you feel as though you have some status symbol that anyone else cares about. What makes you think that anyone else cares about what YOU are doing in the game? Is the fact that I am all decked out in epics mean that I have some greater quality than you in the game? No it doesn't, at least not unless you choose to revere me because of my achievements.
Not everything is a competition. You don't HAVE to compare yourself to everyone else in the game. You should give it a try some time and just play the game because its a fun game to play. You can compete in PVP and not actually care about whether or not you win the match. Sometimes just playing the game is the fun part. To each their own though...only you can decide what is fun.
But my point is why care? I played through dungeons, won some nice loot, enjoyed the experience. So they paid money, good for them, not my problem that they blew AD on gear they can just earn
Thankyou for this. +100
Smoke@stonedbill - Mindflayer - 60 Rogue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RTFQsdgSA9s#t=310s
Edit: My point in linking that is to point out that my walls of text aren't as much my opinions as they are the general crowd MMORPGs need to keep around in order to keep the game alive.
Yeah that is one opinion of how microtransaction can work. It isn't the only way and to be honest I don't feel exploited when I give money to game companies. IMO most of the people I see complaining about the microtransactions are complaining about the fact that they have to give ANY money to the game company. Regardless of what they are getting out of it.
The game is not better because I play it. I play it because the game is good. The game will go on with or without me so having the choice to invest as little or as much in the game as I want is a huge boon IMO. The reality is that the only way that people feel exploited is if they have to pay for equal ground in the game. NW does not require this in any way shape or form. You can get EVERYTHING via the AD <> Zen market through grinding. There is literally nothing you have to pay for if you want everything in the game.
If the best items in the game could only be purchased through the cash shop I would agree with you, but they aren't. They are drops in the dungeons and you can farm them to your hearts content. You can even farm them, sell them on the AH, and buy all the cash shop stuff that other people are buying with their real money.
Since when does this game require you to play? LOL I didn't realize that they had some indentured servitude program. If you don't like it then don't play it.
Honestly, I'm willing to bet that a ton of people currently playing this game are just using it as a free-ish option to tide them over till the two AAA's (Wildstar and The Elder Scrolls Online) come out, whenever that is. And this is borderline conspiracy theory but I'd also be willing to bet that Perfect World Entertainment knows this and that is why they made everything so expensive; simply so they could make a ton of money and cash out right before the bigger games come out. That way, they don't have to keep developing anymore content and they make a ton of money off suckers that didn't clearly see the lack of difference between the $30 bear with no armor on and the $40 bear with armor on.
but the only thing that is p2w is the spider mount in PvP.
Everything else is trivial, and doesn't affect you in any way.
I feel like a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> but I just realized I got you mixed up with the shadeypwnz or whatever his name is that made the "To the Heroes of the North" thread. So disregard the part
#1 - There is NO gear that you can buy with ZEN that gives you an advantage in the game.
#2 - PoE is a Hack & Slash; Neverwinter is an MMO - The 2 games are different
#3 - There are NO XP scrolls to be bought in Neverwinter, just like in PoE - So why talk about that?
#4 - AD can be made by selling stuff looted in the world on the AH. You can even sell PvP gear that you grind out with Glory and PvE gear that you buy with seals. There are PLENTY of ways to get AD.
#5 - FASTER mounts, while efficient, do not help me tank better in dungeons, and do not allow me to cap flags faster in PvP (or do more damage).
#6 - Where are these "POWER STATS" that you mention? I have SCOURED the Zen market looking for these power stats, and I can't seem to find them...obviously you are dumb.
So according to your definition of "Pay to Win" - you have no idea what you are talking about. Nothing included in your definition is included in the Zen market.
Now...games that are "Free to Play" MUST make money. If they do not, then they do not exist. I personally prefer the F2P model, because if I don't like the game, I can stop playing, and I have invested nothing. If I do enjoy it, then I have no problem investing money (I work for a living so I can enjoy the things I want to enjoy).
I currently have almost 7 million AD in Neverwinter. I saw a screenshot of a guildy who has almost 12 million AD. we both made our money the same way...buy low, sell high. We do the same thing in every game. If I loot something I don't need, I sell it. I play the game to have fun and part of having fun is AH manipulation. I like to figure out the market. If you or anyone else is to dense to figure that out, then please go back to your care-bear game and your $15/month sub + $60/game|XPac.
Bottom line, if you are too poor to pay some money to the folks who made a wonderful game, then STFU about the people who DO pay real money and support the devs. At the end of the day, it comes down to the Benjamins. If PW makes no $$, then there is no game. Don't dog on people who want to support the game because they have extra cash and you don't. Get a JOB!
See ya all in the T2 Dungeons!
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
To me this is the only true pay-to-win part of the game and the most off-putting. I'm surprised this topic is not discussed instead of mounts, enchants, companions which are all trivial in comparison. The same thing in Diablo 3, why work for the gear when you can just buy the very best off the AH?
You can bet that all you want but that doesn't make it true. I won't be playing ESO unless it has a combat system that doesn't blow *** like all the single player games. I don't know many people who like real life simulators so we'll see what it's like. It's naive to think that cryptic is trying for a 2-3 month game cycle otherwise why make it an mmo at all. This might not be the long term game for you but that doesn't make it true for all. Stop playing if you don't like it we won't miss you
Better companions yes but what good are they in PvP? Better equipment sure if you really don't want to take the time to run dungeons. Better professions also not sure how it effects PvP. Enchantments you can get the wards via prayer and you can have multiple character for pray to help speed up getting the wards if you don't want to just farm AD. so clearly this game isn't P2W and you have never played a true P2W or you would know this is not one.
If I understand you...
Your argument(?): The game is pay to win
Counter argument: You can win without paying
No True scotsman: If you didn't pay then you didn't win (?)
I think we need to define win here. If "win" is to enjoy the game, get the best gear available, and see all of the content I am interested in, then I can win with out paying anything. If "win" is to enjoy the game, get the best gear available, and see all of the content I am interested in as fast as posible, then I can not win without paying. Win really needs a better definition.
Fixt' that there for ya.
Wrong.
Pay to win is when you can ONLY obtain a given advantage by spending real money. If those advantages are accessible through simply playing the game then it is no longer pay to win. It is pay to keep up with those who have time to spend rather than money.
Time or Money, you have to spend one or the other. You choose.
All die, so die well.
Think of it this way - subscription MMOs cost between $10-15 a month, whether you play or not. This game costs you $0 unless you want to spend money. You are not forced to buy Zen to convert it to AD to buy gear from the AH. Go level up and get the gear yourself. Other people spending money is what keeps the game running so everyone else can play for free in the first place.
With you here. Can't stand grinds. I'd pay to remove grinds from my pay per month MMOs too. But I ****ing can't.
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