Thanks for answering my previous question. I have a couple questions about the belt as well.
How come your belt has so much crit? I know you have the azure and the base stat but where does the 3rd +crit come from. I do not have one to test, I finally got a 1st place in pvp and it gave me a crappy blue amulet.
Also would it not be better to slot another tenebrous in the belt?
Lastly is the cat better than the ioun simply because it can wear a belt instead of icon?
Thanks for answering my previous question. I have a couple questions about the belt as well.
How come your belt has so much crit? I know you have the azure and the base stat but where does the 3rd +crit come from. I do not have one to test, I finally got a 1st place in pvp and it gave me a crappy blue amulet.
Also would it not be better to slot another tenebrous in the belt?
Lastly is the cat better than the ioun simply because it can wear a belt instead of icon?
Sorry for all the questions, again great guide.
60 GF - Dragon
The 3rd crit stat is a visual bug. I don't wear the blue belt because I have OCD about not being in all purples, but yeah a Tene slotted offense belt would be best. Cat > stone because of crit recov > power crit recov.
"There's a major difference between an exploit and balancing issues.
Game balancing features will be coming to the game in time as stated in the State of the Game.
The feedback isn't being ignored by any stretch of the imagination it's simply going to come out in large bulks. Just know that a lack of applied changes isn't because the changes aren't being worked on."
If you read State of Change they talk about stacking effects. This could be one way of controlling the Teneborus Burst.
"There's a major difference between an exploit and balancing issues.
Game balancing features will be coming to the game in time as stated in the State of the Game.
The feedback isn't being ignored by any stretch of the imagination it's simply going to come out in large bulks. Just know that a lack of applied changes isn't because the changes aren't being worked on."
If you read State of Change they talk about stacking effects. This could be one way of controlling the Teneborus Burst.
I think the stacking effects mentioned were aimed towards skills such as astral shield, and ray of enfeeblement.
What about in a 1v2 though since pvp is team based. Would it matter then im unfortunately ocd when it comes to
Ttrying to be the most efficient as possible and almost never get into 1v1 in active matches
A quick question for all guardian fighters: Have you ever deflected or blocked a Shocking Execution from a rogue? What about Ice Knife from CWs (while you are blocking and not getting CC'ed)?
The 3rd crit stat is a visual bug. I don't wear the blue belt because I have OCD about not being in all purples, but yeah a Tene slotted offense belt would be best. Cat > stone because of crit recov > power crit recov.
Thanks again for the reply. I am starting to like my choice of half-orc more now. Not that I will be able to afford a cat anytime soon lol
A quick question for all guardian fighters: Have you ever deflected or blocked a Shocking Execution from a rogue? What about Ice Knife from CWs (while you are blocking and not getting CC'ed)?
Yea I have blocked both. Pretty sure they will break my guard though. I wish we could 1v1 in this game so we could test stuff.
Sometimes I wish my guard could take a bit more punishment before breaking but that is the downside of going offensive.
Yea I have blocked both. Pretty sure they will break my guard though. I wish we could 1v1 in this game so we could test stuff.
Sometimes I wish my guard could take a bit more punishment before breaking but that is the downside of going offensive.
Hmm, so you have actually seen a "block" pop up when you guarded against a shocking execution and taken no damage from it?
Well, thus far on my rogue, I have yet to see someone completely "dodge" or "block" that attack that also consumes my AP meter (it is pretty much considered invalid when the person manages to dodge out of line of sight I believe). If you have though, that's good to know.
A quick question for all guardian fighters: Have you ever deflected or blocked a Shocking Execution from a rogue? What about Ice Knife from CWs (while you are blocking and not getting CC'ed)?
TR - Shocking Execution currently is unblockable and currently ignores all damage reduction. This is being patched in the balance patch.
CW - Ice Knife - If it's the big knife attack - It's blockable and I don't get CC if blocked.
I have pretty much followed your guide for PVP purposes. I saw another thread and posted about stalwarts but was curious.
Have you ever thought about dropping tene enchants, stacking full crit% and getting a vorpal enchant? It is pretty easy from gear alone to get about 1000 crit, add 1350 from timeless and if you have 6 offense slots with +150 each (rank 6 is pretty cheap) youll be pushing 3250 crit? And with a few rank 7s you can get easily over 3500.
Now add a greater vorpal and youve got some serious crit % and crit severity. Throw knights challenge in there and dang... talk about seeing BIG numbers OFTEN... If I had a couple mil I might actually try this but with release around the corner and expansion in summer, I think ill try and save some bankroll to see what comes up.
EDIT: at work and cant do the math, does anyone know the crit % you would have with 3500 (plus heroic points and base)? Also Envy whats your base power at? roughly 4-5k?
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I would if I made a human, but I went dwarf. I did buff the feat that makes Frontline Assault last an additional second. So worth it in PVP.
I have pretty much followed your guide for PVP purposes. I saw another thread and posted about stalwarts but was curious.
Have you ever thought about dropping tene enchants, stacking full crit% and getting a vorpal enchant? It is pretty easy from gear alone to get about 1000 crit, add 1350 from timeless and if you have 6 offense slots with +150 each (rank 6 is pretty cheap) youll be pushing 3250 crit? And with a few rank 7s you can get easily over 3500.
Now add a greater vorpal and youve got some serious crit % and crit severity. Throw knights challenge in there and dang... talk about seeing BIG numbers OFTEN... If I had a couple mil I might actually try this but with release around the corner and expansion in summer, I think ill try and save some bankroll to see what comes up.
EDIT: at work and cant do the math, does anyone know the crit % you would have with 3500 (plus heroic points and base)? Also Envy whats your base power at? roughly 4-5k?
Stacking crit past what you get with base + Timeless isn't efficient because of the diminishing returns. Tenebrous are too strong to replace even if you could stack crit. I also don't use Knight's Challenge very often because I think the lunging/bull/frontline set up is the best you can have. I also wouldn't reaplace GPF as it currently is because it's DoT brings utility in ticking for dismounts and Tenebrous procs, on top of the defense shred.
TR - Shocking Execution currently is unblockable and currently ignores all damage reduction. This is being patched in the balance patch.
CW - Ice Knife - If it's the big knife attack - It's blockable and I don't get CC if blocked.
I have been testing block with Shocking Execution. As long as you have your shield up before the Rogue initiates Shocking Execution it will block it. This has happened to be 8/10 times. If anyone else can try this out and let me know for sure that would be great.
Beginner need few advices for Human Guardian DPS. I start with +2 constitution, is that good, or for DPS better start was +2str?
Also what Attributes should i go now ?
Thanks in Advance.
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axer128Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I have been testing block with Shocking Execution. As long as you have your shield up before the Rogue initiates Shocking Execution it will block it. This has happened to be 8/10 times. If anyone else can try this out and let me know for sure that would be great.
You can block it even after he initiates the anime, tho you have literally 0.00001 seconds to do so, since its a very fast animation. (was slightly more reasonable to perform pre block nerf)
And yea, i've blocked many, many, many shocking executions and lived.
They do broken op damage tho, and thus pretty much always break my shield and still hurt me a little. But yea only take 1-5k from them due to the block upsets rogues greatly hehe.
It is however 100% completely undodgeable..
Makes GF the top rogue duelist.
Just gota kinda learn how fast a rogue gets ap, and time the block when you think hes full.. **** rogues will use it right away..
Pros ones will have your shield broken anyways + 1 shot you, so its pointless to even try to block, best burst them before they burst you.
This should change lots in next update (block becomes stronger, shocking gets mega nerfed, as it should be).
Keep in mind actually ALL melee dailies in the game are undodgeable in the sense that if they require a target, the target they use them on WILL get hit (some hits can be dodged, but they will connect no matter the distance)..
EG: A rogue can start executing you - you lunging strike a million miles away - and youll still get hit - once the anim starts, there is no range limit.
Similar goes for ours tho - indomitable a wizard, he can dodge away and the first hit - and it will do no damage, but the 2nd hit will pretty much always hit him and knock him down - even if hes 1000 feet away. (ive seen a wizard dodge both hits, buts its very unlikely).
btw if all of these facts didnt make rogues seems OP enough:
Rogues are also invulnerable during the last 90% of the frames of execution - they can't be hurt or CC'd at all. the first 10% so you can possibly stun and interrupt them, but yea - generally not unless its by luck, as you cant react that fast (10 milliseconds or so).
and unfairly: Guardians gain no such immunity during our top damage daily (indom).
axer128 - Save your bull charge for when the rogue goes to do his Daily. You'll hear the sound for the skill and can quickly bull charge to interrupt their cast. Just remember that they still can cast it again after they get up. So you have to kill them before they get up or they will hit you with it.
I have been testing block with Shocking Execution. As long as you have your shield up before the Rogue initiates Shocking Execution it will block it. This has happened to be 8/10 times. If anyone else can try this out and let me know for sure that would be great.
Perhaps my initial post was right. I don't know anymore! I wish there was 1v1 so I could test stuff.
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domonation7Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Any thoughts on the new balance updates with the minor changes to the GF? Seems like this build should still be valid. I'm glad that the Block is getting fixed that was getting quite glitchy at times.
Guardian Fighter
Addressed an issue in which the client and server disagreed on the cooldown of Block, resulting in Blocking sometimes not being effective after releasing and re-pressing Block.
Several Block misprediction issues have been addressed. These had resulted in the client thinking it was using the Block ability when the server did not.
Aggravating Strike: Damage from this power now properly scales with player level.
Enforced Threat: Iron Warrior no longer reduces Guard recovery of Enforced Threat.
Ferocious Reaction: This power no longer grants far more Defense than intended.
Guard mitigation on high-damage attacks has been increased by 20%.
Into the Fray no longer stacks with other versions of itself.
The Movement buff no longer stacks with other Movement buffs.
Knight's Valor: This power now consistently applies to all members of the party.
Knight's Valor: This power is no longer cancelled by knockbacks or interrupts.
Knight's Valor: Multiple Guardian Fighters using this power no longer end up protecting each other in a loop.
Knight's Valor: When multiple Guardian Fighters use this power, the ending of the first effect will no longer end the second.
Mark: Visual effects no longer scale up quite as much on larger enemies.
Shield Slam: Damage from this power now properly scales with player level.
The amount of damage the Guardian Fighter can block before breaking guard has been increased by 10%.
Threat generation on all abilities has been increased by 35%.
Threatening Rush: The third rank of this power no longer requires 40 points spent.
Tide of Iron: The duration of the debuff is now consistent.
Villain's Menace: This power no longer prevents Movement buffs from affecting the player while active.
Feat: Shield Defense: All ranks of this feat now properly increase Armor Class.
Feat: Wrathful Warrior: The damage buff from this feat has been reduced to match the tooltip.
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lonewolfmk1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
edited June 2013
Hi,
i have been following this thread for some time and used the proposed build for my own GF and i am happy how he plays, so thanks for the work put into this guide.
I have got a couple of question and i would be happy if someone could help me out a bit.
Firstly id also like to get your opinion if the recent changes to the GF lead to changes in the DPS build. Personally i think not.
The skill Knight Valor (which i recently used for the first time to keep a cleric alive) has me also a bit confused. How exactly does it work? I activated the skill, but i didnt seem to receive any more damage from partymembers.
When fighting a Rogue i noticed that they sometimes turn black and are immune to most attacks, including Cc. First i thought it had to do with the soulforge enchantmant but i noticed that they activate this skill even when at 100%. Its quite frustrating, because a well equipped rogue has a good chance to do heavy damage to me during the time this skill is active, while i cant stun or damage him. Is there a weakness to this skill? Is it a daily? And when the invincibility stops they usually make the AOE that blocks all your skills. Very frustrating to say the least.
Another question concerning the offensive slots. To be a bit more on the cheaper side, would it be also feasible to slot in Light enchantments (the yellow stones, sorry i have the game in German, so i am not 100% sure about the translations) to increase the power (since we basically double the power received as long as the shield is fully up) instead of the tenebrous enchantments? How often do the tenebrous enchantments activate?
Comments
They are going to nerf Tenebrous. There is so much QQing going on about their effects and proc.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?320271-Can-we-please-address-the-plague-fire-and-tenebrous-enchant-problem
I'm sorry where does it say they'll nerf them?
Wrath - 60 Great Weapon Fighter - Mindflayer
Envy's Guardian Fighter DPS Conqueror Guide
Youtube Channel
http://www.twitch.tv/supjeremiah
Drops from PvP!
Wrath - 60 Great Weapon Fighter - Mindflayer
Envy's Guardian Fighter DPS Conqueror Guide
Youtube Channel
http://www.twitch.tv/supjeremiah
The difference is so minuscule. If a human and halfing GF were to 1v1, those 3 points wouldn't be the deciding factor in who wins.
Wrath - 60 Great Weapon Fighter - Mindflayer
Envy's Guardian Fighter DPS Conqueror Guide
Youtube Channel
http://www.twitch.tv/supjeremiah
How come your belt has so much crit? I know you have the azure and the base stat but where does the 3rd +crit come from. I do not have one to test, I finally got a 1st place in pvp and it gave me a crappy blue amulet.
Also would it not be better to slot another tenebrous in the belt?
Lastly is the cat better than the ioun simply because it can wear a belt instead of icon?
Sorry for all the questions, again great guide.
60 GF - Dragon
The 3rd crit stat is a visual bug. I don't wear the blue belt because I have OCD about not being in all purples, but yeah a Tene slotted offense belt would be best. Cat > stone because of crit recov > power crit recov.
Wrath - 60 Great Weapon Fighter - Mindflayer
Envy's Guardian Fighter DPS Conqueror Guide
Youtube Channel
http://www.twitch.tv/supjeremiah
7th Reply down by Community Moderator:
"There's a major difference between an exploit and balancing issues.
Game balancing features will be coming to the game in time as stated in the State of the Game.
The feedback isn't being ignored by any stretch of the imagination it's simply going to come out in large bulks. Just know that a lack of applied changes isn't because the changes aren't being worked on."
If you read State of Change they talk about stacking effects. This could be one way of controlling the Teneborus Burst.
I think the stacking effects mentioned were aimed towards skills such as astral shield, and ray of enfeeblement.
Wrath - 60 Great Weapon Fighter - Mindflayer
Envy's Guardian Fighter DPS Conqueror Guide
Youtube Channel
http://www.twitch.tv/supjeremiah
Ttrying to be the most efficient as possible and almost never get into 1v1 in active matches
Worst GF NA
Thanks again for the reply. I am starting to like my choice of half-orc more now. Not that I will be able to afford a cat anytime soon lol
Yea I have blocked both. Pretty sure they will break my guard though. I wish we could 1v1 in this game so we could test stuff.
Sometimes I wish my guard could take a bit more punishment before breaking but that is the downside of going offensive.
Well, thus far on my rogue, I have yet to see someone completely "dodge" or "block" that attack that also consumes my AP meter (it is pretty much considered invalid when the person manages to dodge out of line of sight I believe). If you have though, that's good to know.
TR - Shocking Execution currently is unblockable and currently ignores all damage reduction. This is being patched in the balance patch.
CW - Ice Knife - If it's the big knife attack - It's blockable and I don't get CC if blocked.
I have pretty much followed your guide for PVP purposes. I saw another thread and posted about stalwarts but was curious.
Have you ever thought about dropping tene enchants, stacking full crit% and getting a vorpal enchant? It is pretty easy from gear alone to get about 1000 crit, add 1350 from timeless and if you have 6 offense slots with +150 each (rank 6 is pretty cheap) youll be pushing 3250 crit? And with a few rank 7s you can get easily over 3500.
Now add a greater vorpal and youve got some serious crit % and crit severity. Throw knights challenge in there and dang... talk about seeing BIG numbers OFTEN... If I had a couple mil I might actually try this but with release around the corner and expansion in summer, I think ill try and save some bankroll to see what comes up.
EDIT: at work and cant do the math, does anyone know the crit % you would have with 3500 (plus heroic points and base)? Also Envy whats your base power at? roughly 4-5k?
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
This, also ironically enough you can block the pull and the black hole effect of AS if you are just facing it with your shield up.
Stacking crit past what you get with base + Timeless isn't efficient because of the diminishing returns. Tenebrous are too strong to replace even if you could stack crit. I also don't use Knight's Challenge very often because I think the lunging/bull/frontline set up is the best you can have. I also wouldn't reaplace GPF as it currently is because it's DoT brings utility in ticking for dismounts and Tenebrous procs, on top of the defense shred.
Wrath - 60 Great Weapon Fighter - Mindflayer
Envy's Guardian Fighter DPS Conqueror Guide
Youtube Channel
http://www.twitch.tv/supjeremiah
This is correct. My post was wrong I get the skills mixed up since I only play GF I don't know who is hitting me with what sometimes lol
I have been testing block with Shocking Execution. As long as you have your shield up before the Rogue initiates Shocking Execution it will block it. This has happened to be 8/10 times. If anyone else can try this out and let me know for sure that would be great.
Also what Attributes should i go now ?
Thanks in Advance.
You can block it even after he initiates the anime, tho you have literally 0.00001 seconds to do so, since its a very fast animation. (was slightly more reasonable to perform pre block nerf)
And yea, i've blocked many, many, many shocking executions and lived.
They do broken op damage tho, and thus pretty much always break my shield and still hurt me a little. But yea only take 1-5k from them due to the block upsets rogues greatly hehe.
It is however 100% completely undodgeable..
Makes GF the top rogue duelist.
Just gota kinda learn how fast a rogue gets ap, and time the block when you think hes full.. **** rogues will use it right away..
Pros ones will have your shield broken anyways + 1 shot you, so its pointless to even try to block, best burst them before they burst you.
This should change lots in next update (block becomes stronger, shocking gets mega nerfed, as it should be).
Keep in mind actually ALL melee dailies in the game are undodgeable in the sense that if they require a target, the target they use them on WILL get hit (some hits can be dodged, but they will connect no matter the distance)..
EG: A rogue can start executing you - you lunging strike a million miles away - and youll still get hit - once the anim starts, there is no range limit.
Similar goes for ours tho - indomitable a wizard, he can dodge away and the first hit - and it will do no damage, but the 2nd hit will pretty much always hit him and knock him down - even if hes 1000 feet away. (ive seen a wizard dodge both hits, buts its very unlikely).
btw if all of these facts didnt make rogues seems OP enough:
Rogues are also invulnerable during the last 90% of the frames of execution - they can't be hurt or CC'd at all. the first 10% so you can possibly stun and interrupt them, but yea - generally not unless its by luck, as you cant react that fast (10 milliseconds or so).
and unfairly: Guardians gain no such immunity during our top damage daily (indom).
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
Perhaps my initial post was right. I don't know anymore! I wish there was 1v1 so I could test stuff.
Guardian Fighter
Addressed an issue in which the client and server disagreed on the cooldown of Block, resulting in Blocking sometimes not being effective after releasing and re-pressing Block.
Several Block misprediction issues have been addressed. These had resulted in the client thinking it was using the Block ability when the server did not.
Aggravating Strike: Damage from this power now properly scales with player level.
Enforced Threat: Iron Warrior no longer reduces Guard recovery of Enforced Threat.
Ferocious Reaction: This power no longer grants far more Defense than intended.
Guard mitigation on high-damage attacks has been increased by 20%.
Into the Fray no longer stacks with other versions of itself.
The Movement buff no longer stacks with other Movement buffs.
Knight's Valor: This power now consistently applies to all members of the party.
Knight's Valor: This power is no longer cancelled by knockbacks or interrupts.
Knight's Valor: Multiple Guardian Fighters using this power no longer end up protecting each other in a loop.
Knight's Valor: When multiple Guardian Fighters use this power, the ending of the first effect will no longer end the second.
Mark: Visual effects no longer scale up quite as much on larger enemies.
Shield Slam: Damage from this power now properly scales with player level.
The amount of damage the Guardian Fighter can block before breaking guard has been increased by 10%.
Threat generation on all abilities has been increased by 35%.
Threatening Rush: The third rank of this power no longer requires 40 points spent.
Tide of Iron: The duration of the debuff is now consistent.
Villain's Menace: This power no longer prevents Movement buffs from affecting the player while active.
Feat: Shield Defense: All ranks of this feat now properly increase Armor Class.
Feat: Wrathful Warrior: The damage buff from this feat has been reduced to match the tooltip.
i have been following this thread for some time and used the proposed build for my own GF and i am happy how he plays, so thanks for the work put into this guide.
I have got a couple of question and i would be happy if someone could help me out a bit.
Firstly id also like to get your opinion if the recent changes to the GF lead to changes in the DPS build. Personally i think not.
The skill Knight Valor (which i recently used for the first time to keep a cleric alive) has me also a bit confused. How exactly does it work? I activated the skill, but i didnt seem to receive any more damage from partymembers.
When fighting a Rogue i noticed that they sometimes turn black and are immune to most attacks, including Cc. First i thought it had to do with the soulforge enchantmant but i noticed that they activate this skill even when at 100%. Its quite frustrating, because a well equipped rogue has a good chance to do heavy damage to me during the time this skill is active, while i cant stun or damage him. Is there a weakness to this skill? Is it a daily? And when the invincibility stops they usually make the AOE that blocks all your skills. Very frustrating to say the least.
Another question concerning the offensive slots. To be a bit more on the cheaper side, would it be also feasible to slot in Light enchantments (the yellow stones, sorry i have the game in German, so i am not 100% sure about the translations) to increase the power (since we basically double the power received as long as the shield is fully up) instead of the tenebrous enchantments? How often do the tenebrous enchantments activate?
Thanks in advance