Not sure that this would be an issue, it's not so much that you shouldn't be able to log multiple clients from the same router, but moreso the same MACHINE. Along with that they would need to treat it like botting in the sense that they'd have to see the multiboxer doing their "thang" and then ban on sight. They often look similar to bots in their matching garbs and similar names... But you'll always be able to look at the first guy in the "fail train" and see that he's the actual person.
sometimes i had probles with running same games from same IP address, even if was ran from different machines. Was considered multiboxing and was an issue.
On a side note, usually when a company/game does not want to allow multiboxing, they disable the launcher to be run on the same pc multiple times even before the game is opened to the public.
Raiderz and Rusty Hearts are from PW as well and they got disabled to multi-boxing on same machine.
On Rusty Hearts i had problems runnig from same IP, as i mentioned before; i had to submit a ticket in order to have my sister playing with me.
1. Multiboxing cannot be grouped in the same basket as botting. To say it can is just the same as saying a player playing the game can be in the same basket as botting. The reason is because if the multiboxer removes the hands from the keyboard and mouse, the character(s) stop what they are doing (unless they are auto-running). In order for multiboxed characters to do anything requires a player at the keyboard and mouse to make the characters do things.
2. To state that multiboxing is cheating is stating that players in a group is cheating. If a player in PvP meets a group of five players, is it expected that the one player beat the five players? If the five players beat the one player is it cheating? Is it unfair to the one player to die to five players? Of course it is but that's the nature of how MMO's work.
Furthermore, this discussion isn't meant to discuss automation. That is against the rules of all major MMORPGs. However, sending keystrokes to more than one client at the same time by a player isn't automation either. It appears that some people for whatever reason want to state that sending keystrokes to more than one client at the same time is automation, but that's not correct. Please review the original post to see the definition of what this message thread was supposed to be about. This message thread has been derailed (aka trolled) by some moderators of this forum either unknowingly or deliberately.
I disagree. If you're using one keystroke for both, one is automated, and no matter how you slice it, automated is the same thing as bot. Yes, a keystroke by a player is required, but it should be two keystrokes for two characters, not one for two. My Aion account got hacked early into the game, and when I got it back, the person that was using it to bot had set up the same macro on every quickslot, so they could push one button, no matter which one, and get the desired effect. Reading this post, they could have had 10 accounts set up the same way, and been running all of them at the same time. Is this not botting?
That said, I don't have a problem with people dual boxing, when they are actually playing both characters, instead of playing one, and having the other on "autopilot" via the same keystrokes. Some of my guildies in other games used to dual box, some better than others, but they had to either physically use two computers, or play in windowed mode to do so. The difference being, if Char 2 did any actions other than follow while running to spots, it was being controlled by the player directly, not indirectly through automation.
Just a point to order too; being a moderator does not mean that one isn't entitled to an opinion, nor does it mean they are not entitled to express it. Disagreeing with proposed opinion does not constitute trolling, even if they are disagreeing with your opinion.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Some people think it's cheating some people don't, this has been going on for years now in every MMO. It is rarely disallowed and even more rarely enforced if it is. So to the real question, is it possible? Yes, but it's not going to be the easiest thing in the world because of the action combat style this game uses.
I disagree. If you're using one keystroke for both, one is automated, and no matter how you slice it, automated is the same thing as bot. Yes, a keystroke by a player is required, but it should be two keystrokes for two characters, not one for two.
It isn't automation. Imagine throwing a rock into a lake, you create one ripple, one effect. With multiboxing you pick a bunch of rocks and throw them all at once, one action but multiple effects, none of which were automated. It is always still a result of your own action and therefore it is not automation.
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calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I can understand that people might feel butthurt about multiboxers in games with mass/open pvp where they lose to an equivalent of 5 players and whine about it. Here, other than the misguided notion that it's botting, I don't see why anyone should care.
It isn't automation. Imagine throwing a rock into a lake, you create one ripple, one effect. With multiboxing you pick a bunch of rocks and throw them all at once, one action but multiple effects, none of which were automated. It is always still a result of your own action and therefore it is not automation.
Bad analogy. Throwing a bunch of rocks is the same as hitting multiple keys on a keyboard. It's multiple actions, not one.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
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calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I used to multibox in another MMO, i tried dualboxing in this game, but it seems it's pretty hard to do because the program i use bugs out in this game sometimes, because of the way the game works with Alt and no /follow hotkey etc. I figured how to make a /follow key but i need to set it up every single time i open the game.
And the fact positioning is a key in this game i don't think multiboxing would be that good.
"One player action = One action on one character" is clear, simple and unambiguous. Everything beyond that is automation.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
So, what is PW/Cryptic's public policy on multi-boxing? It seems to me that's the final answer to the whole question ......
IMO, if they don't have a policy that at least implicitly bans the practice, then they don't care, & it's perfectly game-legal.
Cryptic's official policy is that they don't allow automation. Cryptic's unofficial policy is that they don't care until it impacts revenues.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
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calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It shows how you can control multiple characters without 3rd party software.
"One player action = One action on one character" is clear, simple and unambiguous. Everything beyond that is automation.
Buy a new dictionary.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited May 2013
. . . . . Almost every MMO I play I have multiple accounts and if I cannot run two copies of it on one computer to Multi-Box, I'll install it on the laptop too. I've played multiple accounts since my second year with UO, from 1998 onwards. Only once did I use an illegal third party hotkey app but as soon as they announced anything but UOAssist was illegal, I just stuck with UO Assist. Heck, I even have 26 UO accounts from back in my hay day, filled with 5-6 characters per Shard per Account and more than half had been active at once. I miss my old job.
. . . . . Probably the two games I have had the most fun Multi-Boxing in was EVE and Shadowbane. I had some good times in WoW too (Hydra Mod rocks!). I don't see me being able to multi-box and enjoy Neverwinter though, instead I'll only be multi-boxing when I need to interact with my other accounts. Yeah, I have 6 PWE/Cryptic Accounts, I only use two for Neverwinter and Forsaken World though but I use three for Star Trek Online.
Multi-boxing is "cheating" because it allows for one player to have the power of more than one character at one time. It is that simple.
Who's mad about Guardian Fighter's exploiting their abilities to solo farm dungeons? What's the difference if a single Guardian Fighter can solo a dungeon, or if a single player can solo the same dungeon by multi-boxing 5 separate accounts. As far as I'm concerned, multi-boxing is an exploit, and whether the devs give the OK or not is completely besides the point.
It's the difference between what's legal, and what's moral.
-Travail.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
It isn't automation. Imagine throwing a rock into a lake, you create one ripple, one effect. With multiboxing you pick a bunch of rocks and throw them all at once, one action but multiple effects, none of which were automated. It is always still a result of your own action and therefore it is not automation.
Bad analogy. Throwing a bunch of rocks is the same as hitting multiple keys on a keyboard. It's multiple actions, not one.
That's my take on it too. For your analogy to work, one rock would have to make multiple ripple points. If you aren't physically controlling both characters, but both of them are acting, one is automated. If you aren't manually controlling both, either with two keyboards, or separate keybinds on one for each character, the second one is running on what may as well be autopilot.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
. . . . . Almost every MMO I play I have multiple accounts...
Do "Community Moderators" not have any direct contact with the people in charge? Why not ask for an official response rather than opining.
This thread is pointless. The people that don't like multiboxing will continue to (falsely) claim it's cheating, the people that like it will keep correcting them. We need an official yes or no.
That's my take on it too. For your analogy to work, one rock would have to make multiple ripple points. If you aren't physically controlling both characters, but both of them are acting, one is automated. If you aren't manually controlling both, either with two keyboards, or separate keybinds on one for each character, the second one is running on what may as well be autopilot.
Is throwing two rocks at once two actions or one action? Is throwing always multiple actions with all the joints and muscles and whatever...? You can always break down an analogy and redefine things to suit your needs.
Let's talk the real thing then. You press a key and a series of commands leads to your character doing something. Just because one key press can send the same command to two characters simultaneously doesn't make it any less of an input from the player. You can argue that it is cheating because that is not a very well defined thing. But it is not any more automated than controlling a single character is.
It isn't automation. Imagine throwing a rock into a lake, you create one ripple, one effect. With multiboxing you pick a bunch of rocks and throw them all at once, one action but multiple effects, none of which were automated. It is always still a result of your own action and therefore it is not automation.
Do "Community Moderators" not have any direct contact with the people in charge? Why not ask for an official response rather than opining.
This thread is pointless. The people that don't like multiboxing will continue to (falsely) claim it's cheating, the people that like it will keep correcting them. We need an official yes or no.
I have never come down on the side of not liking it, nor on the side that it's cheating, barring tying all characters over to one keyboard, with one keystroke for however many characters, and then gave an example of how that could be considered botting. However, we've already had one poster point out that the only reason he doesn't do it in this game is because his software bugged out.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Is throwing two rocks at once two actions or one action? Is throwing always multiple actions with all the joints and muscles and whatever...? You can always break down an analogy and redefine things to suit your needs.
Let's talk the real thing then. You press a key and a series of commands leads to your character doing something. Just because one key press can send the same command to two characters simultaneously doesn't make it any less of an input from the player. You can argue that it is cheating because that is not a very well defined thing. But it is not any more automated than controlling a single character is.
You press a key, and some software takes the command from one account, and transfers it to the other account? This is what a series of commands is: scripts, likely not designed by the developer, used to make two characters act as one, but it's not botting...
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
You press a key, and some software takes the command from one account, and transfers it to the other account? This is what a series of commands is: scripts, likely not designed by the developer, used to make two characters act as one, but it's not botting...
Well it isn't. It just isn't. It is manual regardless of how many characters are controlled. A bot is automatic and not manual at all. Now I'm not personally against or for allowing it because that is something that varies from game to game. Depending on the game it can either be damaging or completely harmless. In NW I can see it affecting the economy and that could be reason enough to ban it I suppose.
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gazza126Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
multi-boxing isn't cheating.
Cheating: (from a gamer's and hacker's and programmer's definition) is the use of software which allows alteration to the client side of a game. e.g. most games can be 'speed-hacked' because speed is usually defined client sided. The client can modify it and the server will register it.
Cracking(hacking is general term for this but its not the true term): Illegally accessing property not under the ownership of the 'cracker' for self gain or malicious intent. in MMORPG's this is equivalent to packet editing. (I'm not going to go into detail on this as it's certainly against T&C's).
Botting: Using software to automate the actions of the playercharacter. this is usually done with advanced macro's and it allows the client to sit back and relax. also against T&C's
Multi-boxing on the other hand is:
The use of multiple client programs (on the same or multiple PC's) to log multiple characters at a time. If your using a single PC then you will alter the keybinds on each character so you can move each independently and sometimes use a program which links key's together to allow simultaneous movement. It's not usually against ToU in most games because for 1 if it's a subscribtion based game you have to pay multiple subscribtions.
2. Multi-boxers are technically doing nothing wrong except for making the game easier to solo. e.g. you could have 5 characters allowing you to do dungeon's 'solo'
3. Multiboxing requires more skill than single character playing due to having to watch and control 2 or more characters simultaneously. especially in pvp
Wizard's Choice Chapter 1
NW-DQ7P2NSND
A wizard's quest to save himself, and his companions
Well it isn't. It just isn't. It is manual regardless of how many characters are controlled. A bot is automatic and not manual at all. Now I'm not personally against or for allowing it because that is something that varies from game to game. Depending on the game it can either be damaging or completely harmless. In NW I can see it affecting the economy and that could be reason enough to ban it I suppose.
Where it's going to get tetchy, is the 3rd party software. We can spin it any way we want, but using third party software is against the ToS, and can get someone banned.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
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calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You press a key, and some software takes the command from one account, and transfers it to the other account? This is what a series of commands is: scripts, likely not designed by the developer, used to make two characters act as one, but it's not botting...
And what if you don't use any extra 3rd party software to do it?
Where it's going to get tetchy, is the 3rd party software. We can spin it any way we want, but using third party software is against the ToS, and can get someone banned.
Yeah that part is true although it can be done with purely hardware solutions too. That particular rule is also one of most unreasonable ones because a lot of things are third party software. A mouse software that you use to setup buttons and whatnot is also 3rd party software. I can't recall a single MMO ever banning people for using mouse software. So in practice it is up to Cryptic to say if it is or isn't allowed. Silence usually means that they don't care and you are safe to do it, usually.
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calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yeah that part is true although it can be done with purely hardware solutions too. That particular rule is also one of most unreasonable ones because a lot of things are third party software. A mouse software that you use to setup buttons and whatnot is also 3rd party software. I can't recall a single MMO ever banning people for using mouse software. So in practice it is up to Cryptic to say if it is or isn't allowed. Silence usually means that they don't care and you are safe to do it, usually.
Some mouse software allow for repeating macros. That's why I've seen companies use the term 'unattended gameplay' instead.
That's my take on it too. For your analogy to work, one rock would have to make multiple ripple points. If you aren't physically controlling both characters, but both of them are acting, one is automated. If you aren't manually controlling both either with two keyboards or separate keybinds on one for each character, the second one is running on what may as well be autopilot.
+1
It's impossible to control more than 1 character at the same time, without any programs or scripts. So multi-boxing is when you control one character and rest will do the same using a program or some kind of scripts. And that is autamation.
And what about that kind of multiboxing ? Multibox afk pvp team.
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calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Comments
you should read the entire thread, not all moderators sees the multiboxing as cheating.
Think more with your own head no?
lessbuttlickinginotherwords
sometimes i had probles with running same games from same IP address, even if was ran from different machines. Was considered multiboxing and was an issue.
On a side note, usually when a company/game does not want to allow multiboxing, they disable the launcher to be run on the same pc multiple times even before the game is opened to the public.
Raiderz and Rusty Hearts are from PW as well and they got disabled to multi-boxing on same machine.
On Rusty Hearts i had problems runnig from same IP, as i mentioned before; i had to submit a ticket in order to have my sister playing with me.
I disagree. If you're using one keystroke for both, one is automated, and no matter how you slice it, automated is the same thing as bot. Yes, a keystroke by a player is required, but it should be two keystrokes for two characters, not one for two. My Aion account got hacked early into the game, and when I got it back, the person that was using it to bot had set up the same macro on every quickslot, so they could push one button, no matter which one, and get the desired effect. Reading this post, they could have had 10 accounts set up the same way, and been running all of them at the same time. Is this not botting?
That said, I don't have a problem with people dual boxing, when they are actually playing both characters, instead of playing one, and having the other on "autopilot" via the same keystrokes. Some of my guildies in other games used to dual box, some better than others, but they had to either physically use two computers, or play in windowed mode to do so. The difference being, if Char 2 did any actions other than follow while running to spots, it was being controlled by the player directly, not indirectly through automation.
Just a point to order too; being a moderator does not mean that one isn't entitled to an opinion, nor does it mean they are not entitled to express it. Disagreeing with proposed opinion does not constitute trolling, even if they are disagreeing with your opinion.
It isn't automation. Imagine throwing a rock into a lake, you create one ripple, one effect. With multiboxing you pick a bunch of rocks and throw them all at once, one action but multiple effects, none of which were automated. It is always still a result of your own action and therefore it is not automation.
Bad analogy. Throwing a bunch of rocks is the same as hitting multiple keys on a keyboard. It's multiple actions, not one.
What about this then?
And the fact positioning is a key in this game i don't think multiboxing would be that good.
IMO, if they don't have a policy that at least implicitly bans the practice, then they don't care, & it's perfectly game-legal.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
Not going to some random link.
"One player action = One action on one character" is clear, simple and unambiguous. Everything beyond that is automation.
Cryptic's official policy is that they don't allow automation. Cryptic's unofficial policy is that they don't care until it impacts revenues.
It shows how you can control multiple characters without 3rd party software.
Buy a new dictionary.
. . . . . Probably the two games I have had the most fun Multi-Boxing in was EVE and Shadowbane. I had some good times in WoW too (Hydra Mod rocks!). I don't see me being able to multi-box and enjoy Neverwinter though, instead I'll only be multi-boxing when I need to interact with my other accounts. Yeah, I have 6 PWE/Cryptic Accounts, I only use two for Neverwinter and Forsaken World though but I use three for Star Trek Online.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Blizzard & SOE both ban "automation" as well, yet both companies officially allow multi-boxing in most (if not all) non-PvP contexts.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
Who's mad about Guardian Fighter's exploiting their abilities to solo farm dungeons? What's the difference if a single Guardian Fighter can solo a dungeon, or if a single player can solo the same dungeon by multi-boxing 5 separate accounts. As far as I'm concerned, multi-boxing is an exploit, and whether the devs give the OK or not is completely besides the point.
It's the difference between what's legal, and what's moral.
-Travail.
That's my take on it too. For your analogy to work, one rock would have to make multiple ripple points. If you aren't physically controlling both characters, but both of them are acting, one is automated. If you aren't manually controlling both, either with two keyboards, or separate keybinds on one for each character, the second one is running on what may as well be autopilot.
Do "Community Moderators" not have any direct contact with the people in charge? Why not ask for an official response rather than opining.
This thread is pointless. The people that don't like multiboxing will continue to (falsely) claim it's cheating, the people that like it will keep correcting them. We need an official yes or no.
Is throwing two rocks at once two actions or one action? Is throwing always multiple actions with all the joints and muscles and whatever...? You can always break down an analogy and redefine things to suit your needs.
Let's talk the real thing then. You press a key and a series of commands leads to your character doing something. Just because one key press can send the same command to two characters simultaneously doesn't make it any less of an input from the player. You can argue that it is cheating because that is not a very well defined thing. But it is not any more automated than controlling a single character is.
I have never come down on the side of not liking it, nor on the side that it's cheating, barring tying all characters over to one keyboard, with one keystroke for however many characters, and then gave an example of how that could be considered botting. However, we've already had one poster point out that the only reason he doesn't do it in this game is because his software bugged out.
You press a key, and some software takes the command from one account, and transfers it to the other account? This is what a series of commands is: scripts, likely not designed by the developer, used to make two characters act as one, but it's not botting...
Well it isn't. It just isn't. It is manual regardless of how many characters are controlled. A bot is automatic and not manual at all. Now I'm not personally against or for allowing it because that is something that varies from game to game. Depending on the game it can either be damaging or completely harmless. In NW I can see it affecting the economy and that could be reason enough to ban it I suppose.
Cheating: (from a gamer's and hacker's and programmer's definition) is the use of software which allows alteration to the client side of a game. e.g. most games can be 'speed-hacked' because speed is usually defined client sided. The client can modify it and the server will register it.
Cracking(hacking is general term for this but its not the true term): Illegally accessing property not under the ownership of the 'cracker' for self gain or malicious intent. in MMORPG's this is equivalent to packet editing. (I'm not going to go into detail on this as it's certainly against T&C's).
Botting: Using software to automate the actions of the playercharacter. this is usually done with advanced macro's and it allows the client to sit back and relax. also against T&C's
Multi-boxing on the other hand is:
The use of multiple client programs (on the same or multiple PC's) to log multiple characters at a time. If your using a single PC then you will alter the keybinds on each character so you can move each independently and sometimes use a program which links key's together to allow simultaneous movement. It's not usually against ToU in most games because for 1 if it's a subscribtion based game you have to pay multiple subscribtions.
2. Multi-boxers are technically doing nothing wrong except for making the game easier to solo. e.g. you could have 5 characters allowing you to do dungeon's 'solo'
3. Multiboxing requires more skill than single character playing due to having to watch and control 2 or more characters simultaneously. especially in pvp
NW-DQ7P2NSND
A wizard's quest to save himself, and his companions
Where it's going to get tetchy, is the 3rd party software. We can spin it any way we want, but using third party software is against the ToS, and can get someone banned.
And what if you don't use any extra 3rd party software to do it?
Yeah that part is true although it can be done with purely hardware solutions too. That particular rule is also one of most unreasonable ones because a lot of things are third party software. A mouse software that you use to setup buttons and whatnot is also 3rd party software. I can't recall a single MMO ever banning people for using mouse software. So in practice it is up to Cryptic to say if it is or isn't allowed. Silence usually means that they don't care and you are safe to do it, usually.
Some mouse software allow for repeating macros. That's why I've seen companies use the term 'unattended gameplay' instead.
+1
It's impossible to control more than 1 character at the same time, without any programs or scripts. So multi-boxing is when you control one character and rest will do the same using a program or some kind of scripts. And that is autamation.
And what about that kind of multiboxing ? Multibox afk pvp team.
Oh?
just....
ahahahaha +1 on this