To elaborate, I believe in what this guy said, and the poster below him.
It doesn't matter to me that some of you have found some really big and substantial hairs to split (and they are substantial, I do agree with you there). You're still splitting hairs.
Look, if you want to play D&D on the computer with your friends, I mean REALLY play D&D, then you've got several great options. You've had them for years. You already know about them. Neverwinter Nights and Neverwinter Nights 2. Dungeons and Dragons Online. You can also play pen and paper D&D online with your friends or strangers, and there's probably a game going on with your favorite rule set (or you can start one).
In Neverwinter, Cryptic is our lead DM. They have NOT recreated D&D directly as a translation from pen and paper to digital form, nor have they EVER promised to. Cryptic, like many DMs throughout the years, has created a rule set and surrounding game BASED on Fourth Edition D&D. And those of us who are fans of Cryptic are more than eager to see their spin on things! After the first beta weekend, all I want is more.
Cryptic is not going to shelve their game and start all over because a small handful of you wishes they would have directly translated D&D's foundational requirements as you see fit (but, oh, how many of you would argue over the minutiae if they attempted to!). What they are creating is novel and entertaining for most of us who are here and watching along.
I'm not saying that a direct D&D MMORPG translation doesn't need to exist. But I am saying that not every game that is ever based around D&D should have this as their goal. How stuffy and unoriginal would that be? I also suspect that if Cryptic had done what a few of you are suggesting (a small handful according to the poll results ), you would instead be here saying <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like, "HEY GUYS Y U DO THIS WHEN WE ALRDY HAD NEVERWINTER NIGHTS LOLZ. PLZ BE ORIGINL IN FUTURE KTHXBYE."
Cryptic will always want to put Cryptic's touch on stuff. As an aside, they've given us tools to create our own adventures, but we are not strictly DMs, since people can play through our adventures when we're not around. This should have been anyone's first inkling that Cryptic has endeavored to give us something based on D&D, both the consuming of stories and the creation of them, without parroting D&D.
But it's worth noting, I had a friend in City of Heroes who was a great Mission Architect author and who would often run missions with us in order to guide the story along, interact with other "actors" on the team, and fill in crucial details along the way. There is nothing stopping authors from creating adventures (or entire campaigns) which are intended to have a DM present in order to "enhance" the experience. Just create a blog post or forum thread with your campaign guide and direct potential DMs there via your adventure's in-game description, so they can read up on any notes and requirements the players shouldn't know about IC.
_
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
It takes place in a DnD universe, but I feel it lacks a few key things that DnD should possess. Many roleplaying elements are missing, and you can't change your alignment. =/
It takes place in a DnD universe, but I feel it lacks a few key things that DnD should possess. Many roleplaying elements are missing, and you can't change your alignment. =/
I would like to see more RP elements and alignments too, I'm with you on those things.
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[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
There is nothing stopping authors from creating adventures (or entire campaigns) which are intended to have a DM present in order to "enhance" the experience. Just create a blog post or forum thread with your campaign guide and direct potential DMs there via your adventure's in-game description, so they can read up on any notes and requirements the players shouldn't know about IC.
Wait, what now? Are you saying we can actively DM Foundry created content?!?
I have never heard or seen anything in videos that even hint at that!
Do you have links to anything that corroborates that?
That would be one of the most incredibly amazing features.
In Neverwinter, Cryptic is our lead DM. They have NOT recreated D&D directly as a translation from pen and paper to digital form, nor have they EVER promised to. Cryptic, like many DMs throughout the years, has created a rule set and surrounding game.
What you are implying is called "house rules". And in order for house rules to even exist the game must follow basic D&D rules, which it currently doesn't.
It is well known what D&D 4E is and they ARE claiming it's in the game where clearly it is not. Players are very specific about their rules, thats why there are a variety of rule systems like "Pathfinder", "Dark Eye" or "GURPS". But none of these are WotC created D&D especially not 4E.
No one is debating the fun or quality of this game, simply that it is falsely presenting itself. If it was named differently for example "Cryptic's fantasy MMO" no one would be complaining. But they CHOSE to say it's 4E and put D&D on the box without it actually being either.
Some of us relate with the character that we create. It's like our baby we see it made from nothing and we see it grow into a mighty wizard or a ferocious barbarian.
I come on what is role-playing ? Is you imagining that character in a certain world.
How many of you said ? Hmmm in this situation I would torture that goblin BUT my paladin will try and convince him. Because it's amazing to role-play a paladin or a druid. It's part of the game.
D&D is not only about DM and adventures it's about player's choices !
It takes place in a DnD universe, but I feel it lacks a few key things that DnD should possess. Many roleplaying elements are missing, and you can't change your alignment. =/
It's a different game with a D&D polish and people try to defend it very hard because they want this game to BE D&D. I mean we all love forgotten realms but we gotta be honest here. It's 6/10 game that doesn't even implemented a strong character creation...1000 faces and haircuts but only 2 ways to build a fighter ??? WHAAAT ?!
*Looks for the cops in police state*
*nobody in sight*
It is definitely not D&D. It is obvious from videos that stats do not mean what they mean in D&D. I.e. STR is not STR but some points in damage, DEX is more like crit. It is more like decieve the players into using familiar names for stats which are not working as they are supposed to.
The saves do not work that way either - you do not get saves depending on two stats like D&D 4e does. It is not thus "based" on 4e either. The d20 is not a big issue as that can be counted as gameplay mechanic unlike stats like STR/DEX etc. d20 has been replaced by actual mechanics which can be seen as adaptation of the game to MMO. However stats do fundamentally represent D&D and changing their meaning so drastically does not justify the D&D tag to it.
However, it is a game approved by WotC. Also the story is D&D. Hence it is ok to use D&D tag - just like novels use it too. Many times novels have things which cannot be justified by game mechanics like a lvl 1 player taking out dragon without using abilities but just slashing through heart somehow. Or using magics which do not exist. Also it is a canon game with a canon story.
Hence they can use the D&D name - it is justified in that sense.
Lol I can't believe what i read here :
so basically every mmorpg is a d&d, because it is not a matter of rules and blablabla ok? and almost everybody here applause with the two hands? poor people...
Claiming that the md is always right never meant that he could totally rewrite the rules. You like football? the referee is always right? but can he referee a football match with its own created rules? and claim then that it still is football?
DnD is a licence, with a lore and rules, and if someone was publishing a game with a different name and the same rules, he would have wotc suiting him.
this game is definitly not d&d, and if you state that it is coz it's only a matter of whatever, then wow is d&d too, and as wow is much better, then people, why don't you go play world of dunjeons and dragons?
...DnD is a licence, with a lore and rules, and if someone was publishing a game with a different name and the same rules, he would have wotc suiting him.
this game is definitly not d&d, ...
WotC has been involved in every step of game. link link
That is the whole point. WotC themselves allowed to degrade the D&D for which they have right. If you watch it all - he says that WotC has been involved in every step of NW MMO.
I don't think any dev would argue that it's so loosely based on the D&D rules that its pants have already fallen and are hanging around its ankles. And I say this as a huge fan of the game, based on what I saw this past weekend.
Still, I stand by what I typed a few posts up. There are already more "by the books" approaches to D&D in video games out there and you're welcome to go play them. Neverwinter was clearly not designed to be a straight interpretation of the rules. It's the Forgotten Realms universe and we get to play and create stories inside that universe. Neverwinter is like an interactive novel. It's not very much like an interactive pen and paper game. This is pretty much Cryptic's M.O.!
Contrary to what this may sound like, I'm not telling anyone to sit down and shut up. But throughout the beta test, if we continue to focus on whining for a straight interpretation of 4E D&D, then we'll be wasting our time and Cryptic's instead of making suggestions that can improve the game that they're actually giving us. If you plan on playing this game, and you aren't willing to focus on making suggestions that are actually relevant to THIS game, that's all on you when the game goes live. Cryptic is not going to deliver the D&D rules set. They're not going to do it. You can keep asking them to do it until you're blue in the face. They have not set out to deliver that to you.
What you have to realize is, Cryptic didn't just "accidentally" forget to put in real die-rolling or stats by the books. They didn't "accidentally" design combat without a rules approach in saves, penalties and opportunities. So when some of you have cried foul, you haven't really succeeded in calling Cryptic out or surprising them with the sudden knowledge of their errors. What you have done is point out the obvious--an approach to D&D for which Cryptic is well aware they've created.
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[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
But the problem arises when someone says this is not D&D and you're version is wrong...that is basically what's happening here.
this is not d&d and your version is wrong
this is a random themepark without flavor, with a d&d / neverwinter stamp on it to attract lost nostalgic gamers.
and the "vast majority" of the biased people here trying to convince people that bladders are lanterns will certainly have left that game 6 month after release.
It's in the Forgotten Realms, a DnD campaign setting. Its modeled after DnD 4e. DnD has many variations from one Dungeon Master to another. DnD varies from one person to the next, it's a personal experience.
Is Neverwinter(online) DnD. the answer is unequivocally YES!!...
Will you consider D&D Next to be D&D? Because I'll bet you anything that the rules are going to be different than the previous D&D edition ...... and the one before that, and the one before that, and the one before that.
WotC has been involved in every step of game. link link
That is the whole point. WotC themselves allowed to degrade the D&D for which they have right. If you watch it all - he says that WotC has been involved in every step of NW MMO.
it is a shame but it is not my point
if a random rpg comes out with the 4e ed rules but don't ever mention d&d and wotc, they will surely be suited.
so d&d is a ruleset
and whatever, there were millions of ways to make a game with a better d&d flavor, and it didn't happen, why? I believe the eyes of the developpment team and the wotc representative were staring at a certain mmo we all know... this is a common disease in gaming developpment those days.
To prove that D&D is deeper than simply rules, pretend for a moment....
What if this game had a different title; no Forgotten Realms or D&D in the name, yet it kept Drow, Bags of Holding, AC, Daily Powers, Great Weapon Fighter, just to name a few things. If it kept everything the same except for the title, would you call it a rip-off of the D&D franchise?
What you have to realize is, Cryptic didn't just "accidentally" forget to put in real die-rolling or stats by the books. They didn't "accidentally" design combat without a rules approach in saves, penalties and opportunities. So when some of you have cried foul, you haven't really succeeded in calling Cryptic out or surprising them with the sudden knowledge of their errors. What you have done is point out the obvious--an approach to D&D for which Cryptic is well aware they've created.
then you have to realize that this is no longer d&d but a radom action arcade mmo even not rpg that could as well be called "the chronicles of zbooba"
I think if people would take a good look at Champions Online and the Champions pen and paper rule set, and how Cryptic has approached the development of that game, they'd be reacting with less surprise. Though some of you may be all freaked out, the simple fact of the matter is that Cryptic has not once deviated from its standard approach in creating an MMORPG based on an RPG. They're doing exactly what probably anyone who's been around expected them to do. And that's not an insult, it's a compliment!
Do I wish someone would also create a contemporary, straight-up D&D game? Not really, no. I don't think Neverwinter Nights 2 is so dated that people should have stopped playing it by now. And even if someone WERE to set out to create a straight-up D&D game, I wouldn't want it to be Cryptic! And again, that's not an insult! That just means that I've come to recognize Cryptic's strengths over the years; this is not the studio that you need to be clamoring toward for a direct translation of your favorite RPG. There are other studios (and publishers) that would be more well-suited for that purpose. I'm sure that both Cryptic and WotC realized this early on.
On the one hand I just wish people would stop barking up the wrong tree and get more focused on making suggestions during the beta that are actually relevant to Neverwinter. On the other hand, I guess Cryptic should have expected the range of reactions they're getting. There are still people who are miffed about Cryptic's use (or lack thereof) of the Champions source material. Meanwhile, one source of sales for Hero Games has been CO role-players who are buying the PnP source materials to enhance their knowledge of the Champs universe.
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[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
..., yet it kept Drow, Bags of Holding, AC, Daily Powers, Great Weapon Fighter, just to name a few things. If it kept everything the same except for the title, would you call it a rip-off of the D&D franchise?
These are just names with copyright anyone can't use. What is more important is, for example, if your Great weapon Fighter is a striker and not a defender (i.e. more like berserker with platemail) - it doesn't matter what they call it - it is not GWF. Neither are Daily powers which are just Limit Break mechanics in reality. Similarly the STR can as well be replaced by "Power" and Dexterity can be replaced by "Attack Speed" or "Criticality". There is no AC but "Defense". There is no concept of "missing" due to armor but there is a concept of 0 damage. WIS also means completely something else and is not a reflection of any wisdom. Skills are also just flags and there are no point system which differentiates one who uses skill or one who uses item.
This is because in actuality these stats do not mean what they are named but are actually different.
(p.s. AC has not been applied)
It does not have D&D mechanics. It is not 'based' on them either. If you change the names, it can very easily legally be fielded as a different non-D&D game. Many of the choices are logical and well-implemented, however.
But it has the legal right to D&D name. Nobody can argue that.
But if you make a few changes to the name - it can easily be modified and fielded as non D&D game - a caution understandable from cryptic's side with their experience with Marvel and CO.
My point was that D&D is more than just rules, it's also specific content that's become associated with it throughout it's lifespan. Though people may dislike the "D&D" portion in the name here, does that make this a bad MMO in general?
i.e. People may say this is a bad "D&D MMO", but is it a bad MMO?
The developers had to do a d&d mmo. And they did more an mmo and less a D&D. In my oppinion it was an abysmal decision.
They should have been realist and think.
*high developer* duuude can we build an epic mmo to compensate the lack of d&d ?
*honest programer* nah man we are a limited corporation we don't have the resources bla bla bla better use more d&d and stay near the hardcore fans.
If this would have happened then this game would have been a really good game.
What they actualy did was:
*programer* here is the wizard magic kong fu style missile
*developer* yes that looks good ! now do it more flasy and get that warrior to jump like a superhuman and smash like hulk...good good
My point was that D&D is more than just rules, it's also specific content that's become associated with it throughout it's lifespan. Though people may dislike the "D&D" portion in the name here, does that make this a bad MMO in general?
i.e. People may say this is a bad "D&D MMO", but is it a bad MMO?
It is a good MMO - but as the title says - Is it D&D?
No, not in stats - not in spirit. Just naming stats to familiar names does not make them those stats. As Wisdom in DDO means a person having high mental age - it does not means so in this MMO. Having more chance to have higher hit in magical attack or something like that does not means wisdom.
And as I said earlier - it does have lore and canon story. And it has a right to use the name D&D too - just as novels which are written and may have nothing to do with the game use them.
But it is not D&D and it is more than mechanics. It is different in concept itself. A person with low wisdom cannot call powers of deities just by using an object. And worship of a person with less wisdom is bound to be lower than of a person with high wisdom. However it can be enjoyed as MMO and a good novel.
Though people may dislike the "D&D" portion in the name here, does that make this a bad MMO in general?
i.e. People may say this is a bad "D&D MMO", but is it a bad MMO?
People dislike being taken for fools and lied to. No one is disputing the games quality, just the amount of D&D it really has.
Wow....it is uncanny how accurate my predictions were, I called almost two years ago that the forums would be full of folks screaming it's not D&D and that would be okay if they said that and moved on; it having to reiterate it hourly and that will go on as long as the game is live just like the incessant "This isn't Star Trek" crew over at STO.
Always Looking for mature laidback players/rpers for Dungeon Delves!
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jaelrinyaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
Yeah, this thread is really funny so far.
The most funny part is that even if Cryptic had made this game more in line with D&D mechanics, they still would scream that this is not D&D .
It' also funny how they use that statement to make it look like the whole game will fail just because of the "fact" that "this isn't D&D". As if some game mechanics (that are even from past editions of the Pen and Paper game) would make this game the king of MMOs instantly.
I get why there are many people thinkng that in their opinion the game isn't enough D&Dlike, but I keep asking: Why is it just a big deal for some people? Who cares if my Strength of 14 gives me a +2 modifier to my attack roll and damage or it gives me +4% to damage? Is that really everything that defines D&D for some people? Really? :rolleyes:
I do think this is capable of generating some (not much) bad press for Cryptic, as the RPG crowd continues to realize this isn't the real mccoy. But I fully expect the game to succeed on its own merits. It's just a blast to play. The wider gaming community isn't going to care about anything else but that.
What has caused Champions Online to perform so poorly isn't the fact that Cryptic cherry-picked from the Champs pen and paper license. It's that Cryptic stopped investing in Champions Online to such a degree that it has encouraged the players to stop investing.
As long as Cryptic continues to invest in Neverwinter, I fully expect Neverwinter to succeed just like Star Trek Online has.
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[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
Is it me or most of the people that defend the game blindly are the people that payd for founder's pack? The question is who are you trying to convince that this is and great d&d game us or youreself ?
Comments
To elaborate, I believe in what this guy said, and the poster below him.
It doesn't matter to me that some of you have found some really big and substantial hairs to split (and they are substantial, I do agree with you there). You're still splitting hairs.
Look, if you want to play D&D on the computer with your friends, I mean REALLY play D&D, then you've got several great options. You've had them for years. You already know about them. Neverwinter Nights and Neverwinter Nights 2. Dungeons and Dragons Online. You can also play pen and paper D&D online with your friends or strangers, and there's probably a game going on with your favorite rule set (or you can start one).
In Neverwinter, Cryptic is our lead DM. They have NOT recreated D&D directly as a translation from pen and paper to digital form, nor have they EVER promised to. Cryptic, like many DMs throughout the years, has created a rule set and surrounding game BASED on Fourth Edition D&D. And those of us who are fans of Cryptic are more than eager to see their spin on things! After the first beta weekend, all I want is more.
Cryptic is not going to shelve their game and start all over because a small handful of you wishes they would have directly translated D&D's foundational requirements as you see fit (but, oh, how many of you would argue over the minutiae if they attempted to!). What they are creating is novel and entertaining for most of us who are here and watching along.
I'm not saying that a direct D&D MMORPG translation doesn't need to exist. But I am saying that not every game that is ever based around D&D should have this as their goal. How stuffy and unoriginal would that be? I also suspect that if Cryptic had done what a few of you are suggesting (a small handful according to the poll results
Cryptic will always want to put Cryptic's touch on stuff. As an aside, they've given us tools to create our own adventures, but we are not strictly DMs, since people can play through our adventures when we're not around. This should have been anyone's first inkling that Cryptic has endeavored to give us something based on D&D, both the consuming of stories and the creation of them, without parroting D&D.
But it's worth noting, I had a friend in City of Heroes who was a great Mission Architect author and who would often run missions with us in order to guide the story along, interact with other "actors" on the team, and fill in crucial details along the way. There is nothing stopping authors from creating adventures (or entire campaigns) which are intended to have a DM present in order to "enhance" the experience. Just create a blog post or forum thread with your campaign guide and direct potential DMs there via your adventure's in-game description, so they can read up on any notes and requirements the players shouldn't know about IC.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
I would like to see more RP elements and alignments too, I'm with you on those things.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
Wait, what now? Are you saying we can actively DM Foundry created content?!?
I have never heard or seen anything in videos that even hint at that!
Do you have links to anything that corroborates that?
That would be one of the most incredibly amazing features.
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
It is well known what D&D 4E is and they ARE claiming it's in the game where clearly it is not. Players are very specific about their rules, thats why there are a variety of rule systems like "Pathfinder", "Dark Eye" or "GURPS". But none of these are WotC created D&D especially not 4E.
No one is debating the fun or quality of this game, simply that it is falsely presenting itself. If it was named differently for example "Cryptic's fantasy MMO" no one would be complaining. But they CHOSE to say it's 4E and put D&D on the box without it actually being either.
THERE IS NO d20 SYSTEM IN THE GAME EVEN
I come on what is role-playing ? Is you imagining that character in a certain world.
How many of you said ? Hmmm in this situation I would torture that goblin BUT my paladin will try and convince him. Because it's amazing to role-play a paladin or a druid. It's part of the game.
D&D is not only about DM and adventures it's about player's choices !
It's a different game with a D&D polish and people try to defend it very hard because they want this game to BE D&D. I mean we all love forgotten realms but we gotta be honest here. It's 6/10 game that doesn't even implemented a strong character creation...1000 faces and haircuts but only 2 ways to build a fighter ??? WHAAAT ?!
*nobody in sight*
It is definitely not D&D. It is obvious from videos that stats do not mean what they mean in D&D. I.e. STR is not STR but some points in damage, DEX is more like crit. It is more like decieve the players into using familiar names for stats which are not working as they are supposed to.
The saves do not work that way either - you do not get saves depending on two stats like D&D 4e does. It is not thus "based" on 4e either. The d20 is not a big issue as that can be counted as gameplay mechanic unlike stats like STR/DEX etc. d20 has been replaced by actual mechanics which can be seen as adaptation of the game to MMO. However stats do fundamentally represent D&D and changing their meaning so drastically does not justify the D&D tag to it.
However, it is a game approved by WotC. Also the story is D&D. Hence it is ok to use D&D tag - just like novels use it too. Many times novels have things which cannot be justified by game mechanics like a lvl 1 player taking out dragon without using abilities but just slashing through heart somehow. Or using magics which do not exist. Also it is a canon game with a canon story.
Hence they can use the D&D name - it is justified in that sense.
so basically every mmorpg is a d&d, because it is not a matter of rules and blablabla ok? and almost everybody here applause with the two hands? poor people...
Claiming that the md is always right never meant that he could totally rewrite the rules. You like football? the referee is always right? but can he referee a football match with its own created rules? and claim then that it still is football?
DnD is a licence, with a lore and rules, and if someone was publishing a game with a different name and the same rules, he would have wotc suiting him.
this game is definitly not d&d, and if you state that it is coz it's only a matter of whatever, then wow is d&d too, and as wow is much better, then people, why don't you go play world of dunjeons and dragons?
link
link
That is the whole point. WotC themselves allowed to degrade the D&D for which they have right. If you watch it all - he says that WotC has been involved in every step of NW MMO.
Still, I stand by what I typed a few posts up. There are already more "by the books" approaches to D&D in video games out there and you're welcome to go play them. Neverwinter was clearly not designed to be a straight interpretation of the rules. It's the Forgotten Realms universe and we get to play and create stories inside that universe. Neverwinter is like an interactive novel. It's not very much like an interactive pen and paper game. This is pretty much Cryptic's M.O.!
Contrary to what this may sound like, I'm not telling anyone to sit down and shut up. But throughout the beta test, if we continue to focus on whining for a straight interpretation of 4E D&D, then we'll be wasting our time and Cryptic's instead of making suggestions that can improve the game that they're actually giving us. If you plan on playing this game, and you aren't willing to focus on making suggestions that are actually relevant to THIS game, that's all on you when the game goes live. Cryptic is not going to deliver the D&D rules set. They're not going to do it. You can keep asking them to do it until you're blue in the face. They have not set out to deliver that to you.
What you have to realize is, Cryptic didn't just "accidentally" forget to put in real die-rolling or stats by the books. They didn't "accidentally" design combat without a rules approach in saves, penalties and opportunities. So when some of you have cried foul, you haven't really succeeded in calling Cryptic out or surprising them with the sudden knowledge of their errors. What you have done is point out the obvious--an approach to D&D for which Cryptic is well aware they've created.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
this is not d&d and your version is wrong
this is a random themepark without flavor, with a d&d / neverwinter stamp on it to attract lost nostalgic gamers.
and the "vast majority" of the biased people here trying to convince people that bladders are lanterns will certainly have left that game 6 month after release.
Is Neverwinter(online) DnD. the answer is unequivocally YES!!...
Or something along those lines
it is a shame but it is not my point
if a random rpg comes out with the 4e ed rules but don't ever mention d&d and wotc, they will surely be suited.
so d&d is a ruleset
and whatever, there were millions of ways to make a game with a better d&d flavor, and it didn't happen, why? I believe the eyes of the developpment team and the wotc representative were staring at a certain mmo we all know... this is a common disease in gaming developpment those days.
What if this game had a different title; no Forgotten Realms or D&D in the name, yet it kept Drow, Bags of Holding, AC, Daily Powers, Great Weapon Fighter, just to name a few things. If it kept everything the same except for the title, would you call it a rip-off of the D&D franchise?
then you have to realize that this is no longer d&d but a radom action arcade mmo even not rpg that could as well be called "the chronicles of zbooba"
Do I wish someone would also create a contemporary, straight-up D&D game? Not really, no. I don't think Neverwinter Nights 2 is so dated that people should have stopped playing it by now. And even if someone WERE to set out to create a straight-up D&D game, I wouldn't want it to be Cryptic! And again, that's not an insult! That just means that I've come to recognize Cryptic's strengths over the years; this is not the studio that you need to be clamoring toward for a direct translation of your favorite RPG. There are other studios (and publishers) that would be more well-suited for that purpose. I'm sure that both Cryptic and WotC realized this early on.
On the one hand I just wish people would stop barking up the wrong tree and get more focused on making suggestions during the beta that are actually relevant to Neverwinter. On the other hand, I guess Cryptic should have expected the range of reactions they're getting. There are still people who are miffed about Cryptic's use (or lack thereof) of the Champions source material. Meanwhile, one source of sales for Hero Games has been CO role-players who are buying the PnP source materials to enhance their knowledge of the Champs universe.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
These are just names with copyright anyone can't use. What is more important is, for example, if your Great weapon Fighter is a striker and not a defender (i.e. more like berserker with platemail) - it doesn't matter what they call it - it is not GWF. Neither are Daily powers which are just Limit Break mechanics in reality. Similarly the STR can as well be replaced by "Power" and Dexterity can be replaced by "Attack Speed" or "Criticality". There is no AC but "Defense". There is no concept of "missing" due to armor but there is a concept of 0 damage. WIS also means completely something else and is not a reflection of any wisdom. Skills are also just flags and there are no point system which differentiates one who uses skill or one who uses item.
This is because in actuality these stats do not mean what they are named but are actually different.
(p.s. AC has not been applied)
It does not have D&D mechanics. It is not 'based' on them either. If you change the names, it can very easily legally be fielded as a different non-D&D game. Many of the choices are logical and well-implemented, however.
But it has the legal right to D&D name. Nobody can argue that.
But if you make a few changes to the name - it can easily be modified and fielded as non D&D game - a caution understandable from cryptic's side with their experience with Marvel and CO.
i.e. People may say this is a bad "D&D MMO", but is it a bad MMO?
They should have been realist and think.
*high developer* duuude can we build an epic mmo to compensate the lack of d&d ?
*honest programer* nah man we are a limited corporation we don't have the resources bla bla bla better use more d&d and stay near the hardcore fans.
If this would have happened then this game would have been a really good game.
What they actualy did was:
*programer* here is the wizard magic kong fu style missile
*developer* yes that looks good ! now do it more flasy and get that warrior to jump like a superhuman and smash like hulk...good good
It is a good MMO - but as the title says - Is it D&D?
No, not in stats - not in spirit. Just naming stats to familiar names does not make them those stats. As Wisdom in DDO means a person having high mental age - it does not means so in this MMO. Having more chance to have higher hit in magical attack or something like that does not means wisdom.
And as I said earlier - it does have lore and canon story. And it has a right to use the name D&D too - just as novels which are written and may have nothing to do with the game use them.
But it is not D&D and it is more than mechanics. It is different in concept itself. A person with low wisdom cannot call powers of deities just by using an object. And worship of a person with less wisdom is bound to be lower than of a person with high wisdom. However it can be enjoyed as MMO and a good novel.
People dislike being taken for fools and lied to. No one is disputing the games quality, just the amount of D&D it really has.
This
The most funny part is that even if Cryptic had made this game more in line with D&D mechanics, they still would scream that this is not D&D
It' also funny how they use that statement to make it look like the whole game will fail just because of the "fact" that "this isn't D&D". As if some game mechanics (that are even from past editions of the Pen and Paper game) would make this game the king of MMOs instantly.
I get why there are many people thinkng that in their opinion the game isn't enough D&Dlike, but I keep asking: Why is it just a big deal for some people? Who cares if my Strength of 14 gives me a +2 modifier to my attack roll and damage or it gives me +4% to damage? Is that really everything that defines D&D for some people? Really? :rolleyes:
What has caused Champions Online to perform so poorly isn't the fact that Cryptic cherry-picked from the Champs pen and paper license. It's that Cryptic stopped investing in Champions Online to such a degree that it has encouraged the players to stop investing.
As long as Cryptic continues to invest in Neverwinter, I fully expect Neverwinter to succeed just like Star Trek Online has.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion