So, I guess I have to concede that in some small way just about every MMO and RPG feels a little bit like D&D to me. I can see the family resemblance in the faces of all D&D's children and grandchildren. But this game is more than just a distant relative. This game is the real deal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Gygax If you follow the links you will see the start of the concept began in recreating ancient warfare in a game called Chainmail. The evolution of movement translated to the player to engage them in the process. In the pre-computer graphic age people used their minds and personalities to infuse an historic or a fantasy recreation of a perceived event into the gaming room and involved each other directly in this social atmosphere.
Removing the need to engage your mind in each movement of the dagger or wave of the hand there is a danger of completely dumbing down the connection we have to the event. If you next remove much of the story, the deity, the apprenticeship that teaches you the craft and the social interaction, you are in danger of creating a void in motivation to even play the game for any length of time.
Sorry dude, you have a very myopic and entitled perspective. This game isn't your and some other Grognards vision of D&D, that and five bucks will by you a small flavored coffee at Starbucks, it isn't going to to prevent the vast majority of us from enjoying the game; meanwhile you can setup shop here on the forums and Comicshop guy everyone who isn't a true D&D player.
:rolleyes:
But that is just it.... D&D is everyones game. Open to intrepitation by each and every one of us with a set of core rules that your group can alter, adapt and what not to fit your needs.
But that is just it.... D&D is everyones game. Open to intrepitation by each and every one of us with a set of core rules that your group can alter, adapt and what not to fit your needs.
But the problem arises when someone says this is not D&D and you're version is wrong...that is basically what's happening here.
But that is just it.... D&D is everyones game. Open to intrepitation by each and every one of us with a set of core rules that your group can alter, adapt and what not to fit your needs.
Actually, not entirely true. This is pertinent to the discussion, very pertinent. Gary Gygax actually addressed this whole thread in reference to an MMO, and did a good job defining an RPG:
I do not, and I stress NOT, believe that the RPG is "storytelling" in the way that is usually presented. If there is a story to be told, it comes from the interaction of all participants, not merely the Game Master--who should not a "Storyteller" but a narrator and co-player! The players are not acting out roles designed for them by the GM, they are acting in character to create the story, and that tale is told as the game unfolds, and as directed by their actions, with random factors that even the GM can't predict possibly altering the course of things. Storytelling is what novelists, screenwriters, and playwrights do. It has little or no connection to the RPG, which differs in all aspects from the entertainment forms such authors create for.
As false to the game form as the pre-scripted "story," is play that has little more in it than seek and destroy missions, vacuous effort where the participants fight and kill some monster so as to gain more power and thus be able to look for yet more potent opponents in a spiral that leads nowhere save eventual boredom. So pure hack and slash play is anathema to me too.
Tactical, and strategic, play is a fine addition to the RPG, and if it is in-character, something I see as desirable, In this category fall such things as exploration, economics, politics, and even intrigue.
The RPG was designed to accommodate any and all styles and play approaches, and hopefully so presented as to encourage an amalgam of all the elements of the game form. That encourages varied adventures, different challenges from time to time, and well-rounded characters (and players) that find the game has long-term interest for them. In short, I agree with you in that all aspects of the RPG should be presented and played.
This only holds true to the rules of D&D - not the settings and this game has a setting and so does Forgotten Realms from the books.
When your setting is given, some things are just not open to you. Play Drizzt? You can't without creating an entirely new story and therefore "changing" the game.
And some rules are open to change as well. If a spell is deemed to overpowered by a group of players, they enforce a "in house" setting to prevent misuse.
I think this quote is missplaced, as I am not stating that storytelling is what Cryptic and PWE does, but that they made an mmo, using D&D rules and a specific D&D setting for the game.
Gary Gygax specifically speaks of storytelling, leading the player to a specific place with a specific set of means to do the job, is not an RPG.
I never ever stated that Neverwinter was an RPG and still, yes D&D is everyones game to use and to change for "in house" purposes of their groups.
This game is not different from that, other than it has commercial value and needs to run by the rules of D&D and I am very sure that they would not have been able to launch the game, if the company didn't follow the rules given by D&D and their company.
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okottekonekoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
for me its not a proper D&D game because of the lack or character creation pregen is what we have here.
and theres no proper dungeon crawling like we had in DDO or any of the other offline D&D games NwN BG IWD ect.
theres no rouges searching for traps or hidden doors, no locked chests only open able by rouges or casters with the right spells.
no resting to regain skills or prepare new ones, no traditional approach to character builds or progression, where you had a base class but build it speced it and prepared from a large list a small list of spells you want to use for that build.
i have been playing DDO for quite a while after growing up with BG IWD and NWN and that sort of format is what i expect from a D&D game, DDO had that but lacked the fully explorable world and the setting of the forgotten realms (it did give me the artificer class now my favourate class in D&D) but from what i have been seeing and told about NWO it sorely lacks any of the depth that i have come to expect from a D&D game, i was hoping for NWN meets WoW in a sence the depth and play of NWN in a mass sandbox world like WoW.
NWO may be a good game but so far to me isnt a ture D&D game all the D&D i can see is the name and the setting, the gameplay leaves me wanting.
hopefully when i get a shot at it i will find the D&D feel i didnt get from others feedback and the videos (i aint paying $60+ to get access to a few days of play) i am waiting for the open beta to have my go.
i hope they plan on adding more cutomisation as time goes by or even having that as a premium option you need to buy from the item mall i am willing to do that too given its not too unrealistically priced.
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johnny305Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
The player created adventures is D&D for sure.
The only bad things is how they oversimplified how you can build your class. They have made each class only 1 build pretty much. That is nothing like pnp, older D&D based pc games or even D&D online.
The only bad things is how they oversimplified how you can build your class. They have made each class only 1 build pretty much. That is nothing like pnp, older D&D based pc games or even D&D online.
Yup. Right now this is the only thing I am truly disappointed about.
I'd just like to share my amusement by the fact that my topic called "NOT D&D" was "moved"(not to the lower depths aparently) within the hour and this one was opened.
Nothing suspicious going on here, move along
The only bad things is how they oversimplified how you can build your class. They have made each class only 1 build pretty much. That is nothing like pnp, older D&D based pc games or even D&D online.
Technically they are not with 4E because you choose which path of Cleric/Druid/Etc from the onset of your class... which is what will happen when they have both Warpriest and Devoted Cleric. You can view it how you like, but in 4E you have to make that choice from Level 1.
Sorry dude, you have a very myopic and entitled perspective. This game isn't your and some other Grognards vision of D&D, that and five bucks will by you a small flavored coffee at Starbucks, it isn't going to to prevent the vast majority of us from enjoying the game; meanwhile you can setup shop here on the forums and Comicshop guy everyone who isn't a true D&D player.
:rolleyes:
I'm not sure how that answers what I actually stated in that post and I never said people aren't allowed to enjoy the game. I even left room for the possibility of deviating from the rules by adapting them to a certain extend to meet a specific campaign groups or video game's needs (something I used to do all the time in my own games). All I did was point out the fact that ALL PnP RPGs and computer RPGs with UGC (user-generated content; i.e. "the Foundry") capabilities are about friends having adventures and sharing stories, and as such that can't possibly what defines a game as "D&D", because its a quality that applies and belongs to ALL RPGs (which there have been hundreds of, even in PnP) in general, not just D&D.
I also pointed out that "homebrewed" settings are an accepted facet of D&D--which is stated in the D&D rulebooks themselves. And while yes, the publisher does sell setting manuals and they'd like you to buy them, they do tell you that it is perfectly acceptable to create your own worlds--even going as far as to including guidelines for it in the DM's manuals--because the purpose of D&D as a game is not to lock itself within its own IP, but to provide a base game system/engine that can be used for fantasy adventures of any kind, which can be based either on published material or worlds of your own. And as such, the setting (which has also been brought up in this discussion as a defining element, and which there are many, not just FR) cannot be the defining element that determines what D&D is either, because D&D is expressedly intended to serve as a generic fantasy game that serves as a base for ANY kind of fantasy setting--not just those published by Wizards of the Costs (or TSR before them) for use with the D&D game.
And while settings like FR are certainly part of the D&D franchise, they also stand on their own as fantasy worlds in their own right independent of D&D--spanning hundreds of fantasy novels, with characters that sometimes have talents and abilities or upbringings that often deviate from what the game rules normally allow (such as Drizzt :rolleyes:). Which brings us back to the system itself--the one thing that's always D&D any way you cut it.
I always had a bit more relaxed viewpoint to what is a D&D game and what isn't.
If the game has a D&D logo and plays in one of the D&D Settings then it's a D&D game for me.
For me D&D isn't a set of rules, but the rich background created by so many talented people (Forgotten Realms still my favorite).
I would try any D&D game, no matter it's genre and if they manage to imerse me well into the setting, than that's already a big step for me liking the game. Gameplay is important too as well of course.
A good non D&D example would be The Dark Eye: Chains of Satinav. The Dark Eye is a popular Pen&Paper RPG in Germany. Chains of Satinav is an point and click adventure game and really doesn't have any RPG rules in there from the Pen&Paper, yet the story told was nice and the game imersed me well into the Dark Eye Universe. So for me it's a proper Dark Eye game.
If Neverwinter imerses me well into the Forgotten Realms world and the gameplay is fun, then I can see me play this for quite a while. D&D backround is simply more important for me, than the game following D&D rules.
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lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
I think this quote is missplaced, as I am not stating that storytelling is what Cryptic and PWE does, but that they made an mmo, using D&D rules and a specific D&D setting for the game.
Gary Gygax specifically speaks of storytelling, leading the player to a specific place with a specific set of means to do the job, is not an RPG.
This quote refers to an MMO RPG based on his created game system (post DnD, named Lejendary Adventures), so I find it pretty pertinent.
As far as whether this is DnD or not, I didn't infer one way or the other as to the answer.
However, were I to answer, I would say "no". The missing component is character evolution. The best part about a character in any DnD game (even NWN1, 2 and PnP, no matter which edition you played) was that you controlled your character's story, predilection, abilities, and these things meant something. In NWO, we all evolve the same, with very little variation. And, no matter what edition of DnD you play, you had (even in 4ED PHB) the option of three at-will powers at level 1.
Saying that it doesn't have the graphics/visuals I associate with DnD, or some of the activities (watered down) from DnD would be patently absurd. It does. Mind you, other games do it better or with more details, but that's not the point. This is the second action-style DnD game I've played, and it pulls it off decently.
Not exactly sure what you are trying to prove but okay...
In PnP there isn't anything called Defense (unless it's in 4ed. I will admit I'm not particularly familiar with the system even though I have general knowledge of it).
But I DO know in Champions Online, there's a stat called Defense that's basically Damage Reduction. Why is this in the game? Probably because Cryptic makes it and it's one of the stats they use. I'm starting to wonder if NWO is more similar to CO than 4ed DnD.
Without knowing how much reduction 50 Defense gives me, I'd probably take the AC bonus since that helps to completely avoid damage...but then again, I don't know how AC is interpreted in NWO so I may be wrong.
doctorcomicsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
Just a quick note to say I entirely agree with the OP and applaud his eloquent and thoughtful post.
When the people I know started to fight over editions of the game, I often said, "If my fighter can swing a +1 sword at an owlbear and roll a 20, I'm playing DnD." Everything else is just fluff. Now, I can't roll a d20 in this game because the computer ate my dice, but otherwise, I recognize this game. It's got gelatinous cubes, Drow, and mimics. It's got magic missile and ten foot poles. This is DnD.
Now, do I wish it had more classes? You bet I do. And do I long for more options when it comes to skills, powers, gear and feats? Of course I do. But none of that keeps me from recognizing the game, and I think the OP is on the money when he speculates that his own experience with multiple editions is exactly why he's happy with this game and not disappointed by it.
morbicMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
Depends on how much of the rules and playstyle from the Pen and Paper version you are trying to port over, but I'd say the lore and the feel is D&D, especially with WoTC checking everything that makes it in-game which means it is basically considered canon material if they have any major lore changes in-game.
In my own estimation, "D&D" can be summed up in a couple key concepts (note, I have only played 3.0 and 3.5):
1) Freedom within rules: We are able to make pretty much any kind of character we can imagine, but they had to fit within certain criteria of attributes to gain specific abilities. You can't take power attack until you have at least 13 strength, for example. You could use any weapon you invested training in, through proficiency feats, and the same with armour. You could even multiclass to have a character that covered a range of archetypes.
2) Your imagination is the limit: I almost never touch standard D&D canon. I have played a small bit of Ravenloft, a bit more in Forgotten Realms, and a bare minimum of Dragonlance, but by far I've played entirely homebrewed campaigns. So in this sense, the setting is the least important aspect of D&D for me, because it was the rules that provided a framework around which to create the adventure. As long as it's fantasy, and there are elves and dwarves and other stuff in the same spirit, the rules (a unified set of stats, abilities, and equipment) were more important than the setting.
In saying that, the fact that Neverwinter is based in Forgotten Realms really has no draw for me in the slightest. I'd be almost as happy if the setting were some made up world called Modnareman. I was mostly drawn to Neverwinter for the D&D ruleset (before I knew just how different 4.0 rules were, and then hearing that this game doesn't even follow 4.0 rules except superficially), and the thought that we would have immense freedom in the way we developed our characters/classes (and thus our stories). So, the two most important things that made D&D for me are starkly absent.
I won't claim it's not D&D, but I will say I doubt it will feel like the times I had playing NWN into the early hours of the morning, with friends from around the world. Will it be fun? Probably in its own way, but my own predictions are that it won't be quite the experience I've been hoping for. Hope I'm wrong at that.
If Neverwinter imerses me well into the Forgotten Realms world and the gameplay is fun, then I can see me play this for quite a while. D&D backround is simply more important for me, than the game following D&D rules.[/QUOTE]
I'm starting to wonder if NWO is more similar to CO than 4ed DnD.
That's exactly what I'm getting at -- it seems to have twice as many CO stats than DnD stats.
So, why not just call it something like Champions of Neverwinter? Or maybe D&D with 1/3 the flavor!
for me its not a proper D&D game because of the lack or character creation pregen is what we have here.
and theres no proper dungeon crawling like we had in DDO or any of the other offline D&D games NwN BG IWD ect.
theres no rouges searching for traps or hidden doors, no locked chests only open able by rouges or casters with the right spells.
no resting to regain skills or prepare new ones, no traditional approach to character builds or progression, where you had a base class but build it speced it and prepared from a large list a small list of spells you want to use for that build.
i have been playing DDO for quite a while after growing up with BG IWD and NWN and that sort of format is what i expect from a D&D game, DDO had that but lacked the fully explorable world and the setting of the forgotten realms (it did give me the artificer class now my favourate class in D&D) but from what i have been seeing and told about NWO it sorely lacks any of the depth that i have come to expect from a D&D game, i was hoping for NWN meets WoW in a sence the depth and play of NWN in a mass sandbox world like WoW.
NWO may be a good game but so far to me isnt a ture D&D game all the D&D i can see is the name and the setting, the gameplay leaves me wanting.
hopefully when i get a shot at it i will find the D&D feel i didnt get from others feedback and the videos (i aint paying $60+ to get access to a few days of play) i am waiting for the open beta to have my go.
i hope they plan on adding more cutomisation as time goes by or even having that as a premium option you need to buy from the item mall i am willing to do that too given its not too unrealistically priced.
I wanted to point out that there are places to rest and change your spells. Also this game is based upon 4th edition where you don't use up a spell like previous 3.5 editions. You are used to DDO where you could rest at a rest shrine to switch out your spells but sadly the game didn't follow 3.5 edition either as they added mana to the game instead of limiting the number of spells you could cast. At least in NWO since it's 4th edition they only have to worry about at will, encounter and daily spells. you can always cast your at will spell, you can cast your encounter between 10-15 seconds and I save up the daily for the final boss.
Now I haven't played the rouge yet in beta so I don't know what's missing for him but I did play a cleric and a fighter and wished I had a rogue because of how many traps I sprung. I didn't find a chest I couldn't open which is something DDO did well. Also searching for secret doors with high intel characters was fun as well but then again I've only played solo content so far in NWO.
Comments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Gygax If you follow the links you will see the start of the concept began in recreating ancient warfare in a game called Chainmail. The evolution of movement translated to the player to engage them in the process. In the pre-computer graphic age people used their minds and personalities to infuse an historic or a fantasy recreation of a perceived event into the gaming room and involved each other directly in this social atmosphere.
Removing the need to engage your mind in each movement of the dagger or wave of the hand there is a danger of completely dumbing down the connection we have to the event. If you next remove much of the story, the deity, the apprenticeship that teaches you the craft and the social interaction, you are in danger of creating a void in motivation to even play the game for any length of time.
https://soundcloud.com/nathankilgore/i-wanna-see-you2
Otter ~~~~ on Beholder
But that is just it.... D&D is everyones game. Open to intrepitation by each and every one of us with a set of core rules that your group can alter, adapt and what not to fit your needs.
But the problem arises when someone says this is not D&D and you're version is wrong...that is basically what's happening here.
Actually, not entirely true. This is pertinent to the discussion, very pertinent. Gary Gygax actually addressed this whole thread in reference to an MMO, and did a good job defining an RPG:
When your setting is given, some things are just not open to you. Play Drizzt? You can't without creating an entirely new story and therefore "changing" the game.
And some rules are open to change as well. If a spell is deemed to overpowered by a group of players, they enforce a "in house" setting to prevent misuse.
I think this quote is missplaced, as I am not stating that storytelling is what Cryptic and PWE does, but that they made an mmo, using D&D rules and a specific D&D setting for the game.
Gary Gygax specifically speaks of storytelling, leading the player to a specific place with a specific set of means to do the job, is not an RPG.
I never ever stated that Neverwinter was an RPG and still, yes D&D is everyones game to use and to change for "in house" purposes of their groups.
This game is not different from that, other than it has commercial value and needs to run by the rules of D&D and I am very sure that they would not have been able to launch the game, if the company didn't follow the rules given by D&D and their company.
and theres no proper dungeon crawling like we had in DDO or any of the other offline D&D games NwN BG IWD ect.
theres no rouges searching for traps or hidden doors, no locked chests only open able by rouges or casters with the right spells.
no resting to regain skills or prepare new ones, no traditional approach to character builds or progression, where you had a base class but build it speced it and prepared from a large list a small list of spells you want to use for that build.
i have been playing DDO for quite a while after growing up with BG IWD and NWN and that sort of format is what i expect from a D&D game, DDO had that but lacked the fully explorable world and the setting of the forgotten realms (it did give me the artificer class now my favourate class in D&D) but from what i have been seeing and told about NWO it sorely lacks any of the depth that i have come to expect from a D&D game, i was hoping for NWN meets WoW in a sence the depth and play of NWN in a mass sandbox world like WoW.
NWO may be a good game but so far to me isnt a ture D&D game all the D&D i can see is the name and the setting, the gameplay leaves me wanting.
hopefully when i get a shot at it i will find the D&D feel i didnt get from others feedback and the videos (i aint paying $60+ to get access to a few days of play) i am waiting for the open beta to have my go.
i hope they plan on adding more cutomisation as time goes by or even having that as a premium option you need to buy from the item mall i am willing to do that too given its not too unrealistically priced.
The only bad things is how they oversimplified how you can build your class. They have made each class only 1 build pretty much. That is nothing like pnp, older D&D based pc games or even D&D online.
Yup. Right now this is the only thing I am truly disappointed about.
So which is the more useful ring...
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
Tinfoil hats come in all sizes.
Technically they are not with 4E because you choose which path of Cleric/Druid/Etc from the onset of your class... which is what will happen when they have both Warpriest and Devoted Cleric. You can view it how you like, but in 4E you have to make that choice from Level 1.
yeah blindfold as well
I actually bothered reading the stats description in the character sheet. Defense is related to damage reduction.
Why do conspiracy theorist call everyone else blind?
I'm not sure how that answers what I actually stated in that post and I never said people aren't allowed to enjoy the game. I even left room for the possibility of deviating from the rules by adapting them to a certain extend to meet a specific campaign groups or video game's needs (something I used to do all the time in my own games). All I did was point out the fact that ALL PnP RPGs and computer RPGs with UGC (user-generated content; i.e. "the Foundry") capabilities are about friends having adventures and sharing stories, and as such that can't possibly what defines a game as "D&D", because its a quality that applies and belongs to ALL RPGs (which there have been hundreds of, even in PnP) in general, not just D&D.
I also pointed out that "homebrewed" settings are an accepted facet of D&D--which is stated in the D&D rulebooks themselves. And while yes, the publisher does sell setting manuals and they'd like you to buy them, they do tell you that it is perfectly acceptable to create your own worlds--even going as far as to including guidelines for it in the DM's manuals--because the purpose of D&D as a game is not to lock itself within its own IP, but to provide a base game system/engine that can be used for fantasy adventures of any kind, which can be based either on published material or worlds of your own. And as such, the setting (which has also been brought up in this discussion as a defining element, and which there are many, not just FR) cannot be the defining element that determines what D&D is either, because D&D is expressedly intended to serve as a generic fantasy game that serves as a base for ANY kind of fantasy setting--not just those published by Wizards of the Costs (or TSR before them) for use with the D&D game.
And while settings like FR are certainly part of the D&D franchise, they also stand on their own as fantasy worlds in their own right independent of D&D--spanning hundreds of fantasy novels, with characters that sometimes have talents and abilities or upbringings that often deviate from what the game rules normally allow (such as Drizzt :rolleyes:). Which brings us back to the system itself--the one thing that's always D&D any way you cut it.
Neverwinter Wiki
If the game has a D&D logo and plays in one of the D&D Settings then it's a D&D game for me.
For me D&D isn't a set of rules, but the rich background created by so many talented people (Forgotten Realms still my favorite).
I would try any D&D game, no matter it's genre and if they manage to imerse me well into the setting, than that's already a big step for me liking the game. Gameplay is important too as well of course.
A good non D&D example would be The Dark Eye: Chains of Satinav. The Dark Eye is a popular Pen&Paper RPG in Germany. Chains of Satinav is an point and click adventure game and really doesn't have any RPG rules in there from the Pen&Paper, yet the story told was nice and the game imersed me well into the Dark Eye Universe. So for me it's a proper Dark Eye game.
If Neverwinter imerses me well into the Forgotten Realms world and the gameplay is fun, then I can see me play this for quite a while. D&D backround is simply more important for me, than the game following D&D rules.
This quote refers to an MMO RPG based on his created game system (post DnD, named Lejendary Adventures), so I find it pretty pertinent.
As far as whether this is DnD or not, I didn't infer one way or the other as to the answer.
However, were I to answer, I would say "no". The missing component is character evolution. The best part about a character in any DnD game (even NWN1, 2 and PnP, no matter which edition you played) was that you controlled your character's story, predilection, abilities, and these things meant something. In NWO, we all evolve the same, with very little variation. And, no matter what edition of DnD you play, you had (even in 4ED PHB) the option of three at-will powers at level 1.
Saying that it doesn't have the graphics/visuals I associate with DnD, or some of the activities (watered down) from DnD would be patently absurd. It does. Mind you, other games do it better or with more details, but that's not the point. This is the second action-style DnD game I've played, and it pulls it off decently.
Not exactly sure what you are trying to prove but okay...
In PnP there isn't anything called Defense (unless it's in 4ed. I will admit I'm not particularly familiar with the system even though I have general knowledge of it).
But I DO know in Champions Online, there's a stat called Defense that's basically Damage Reduction. Why is this in the game? Probably because Cryptic makes it and it's one of the stats they use. I'm starting to wonder if NWO is more similar to CO than 4ed DnD.
Without knowing how much reduction 50 Defense gives me, I'd probably take the AC bonus since that helps to completely avoid damage...but then again, I don't know how AC is interpreted in NWO so I may be wrong.
When the people I know started to fight over editions of the game, I often said, "If my fighter can swing a +1 sword at an owlbear and roll a 20, I'm playing DnD." Everything else is just fluff. Now, I can't roll a d20 in this game because the computer ate my dice, but otherwise, I recognize this game. It's got gelatinous cubes, Drow, and mimics. It's got magic missile and ten foot poles. This is DnD.
Now, do I wish it had more classes? You bet I do. And do I long for more options when it comes to skills, powers, gear and feats? Of course I do. But none of that keeps me from recognizing the game, and I think the OP is on the money when he speculates that his own experience with multiple editions is exactly why he's happy with this game and not disappointed by it.
Seven Against Thay: An RP-Focused Guild for all Races and Classes
Foundry Content:Guide - Custom Channels and List (NW-DHBU9OTOS)
Asset upgrading poll.
Daytona made me laugh.
Seven Against Thay: An RP-Focused Guild for all Races and Classes
1) Freedom within rules: We are able to make pretty much any kind of character we can imagine, but they had to fit within certain criteria of attributes to gain specific abilities. You can't take power attack until you have at least 13 strength, for example. You could use any weapon you invested training in, through proficiency feats, and the same with armour. You could even multiclass to have a character that covered a range of archetypes.
2) Your imagination is the limit: I almost never touch standard D&D canon. I have played a small bit of Ravenloft, a bit more in Forgotten Realms, and a bare minimum of Dragonlance, but by far I've played entirely homebrewed campaigns. So in this sense, the setting is the least important aspect of D&D for me, because it was the rules that provided a framework around which to create the adventure. As long as it's fantasy, and there are elves and dwarves and other stuff in the same spirit, the rules (a unified set of stats, abilities, and equipment) were more important than the setting.
In saying that, the fact that Neverwinter is based in Forgotten Realms really has no draw for me in the slightest. I'd be almost as happy if the setting were some made up world called Modnareman. I was mostly drawn to Neverwinter for the D&D ruleset (before I knew just how different 4.0 rules were, and then hearing that this game doesn't even follow 4.0 rules except superficially), and the thought that we would have immense freedom in the way we developed our characters/classes (and thus our stories). So, the two most important things that made D&D for me are starkly absent.
I won't claim it's not D&D, but I will say I doubt it will feel like the times I had playing NWN into the early hours of the morning, with friends from around the world. Will it be fun? Probably in its own way, but my own predictions are that it won't be quite the experience I've been hoping for. Hope I'm wrong at that.
If Neverwinter imerses me well into the Forgotten Realms world and the gameplay is fun, then I can see me play this for quite a while. D&D backround is simply more important for me, than the game following D&D rules.[/QUOTE]
Yup - that about sums it up for me too.
That's exactly what I'm getting at -- it seems to have twice as many CO stats than DnD stats.
So, why not just call it something like Champions of Neverwinter? Or maybe D&D with 1/3 the flavor!
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
I wanted to point out that there are places to rest and change your spells. Also this game is based upon 4th edition where you don't use up a spell like previous 3.5 editions. You are used to DDO where you could rest at a rest shrine to switch out your spells but sadly the game didn't follow 3.5 edition either as they added mana to the game instead of limiting the number of spells you could cast. At least in NWO since it's 4th edition they only have to worry about at will, encounter and daily spells. you can always cast your at will spell, you can cast your encounter between 10-15 seconds and I save up the daily for the final boss.
Now I haven't played the rouge yet in beta so I don't know what's missing for him but I did play a cleric and a fighter and wished I had a rogue because of how many traps I sprung. I didn't find a chest I couldn't open which is something DDO did well. Also searching for secret doors with high intel characters was fun as well but then again I've only played solo content so far in NWO.
I wondered the same thing and had to apply what I learned from WoW which has taken defense off of items now.