makari2180Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited March 2013
I'm aware of the classes supposedly in the code but not available on release and the ability to add classes after release
the problem is the game will be largely judged on its release content
once the public at large give it a once over, read a review or 2 and decide not to play it because it feels "incomplete" or it doesnt have any character types they're interested in, then 90% of the time they dont come back to check 6 months later. I'm just saying i think the narrowing of classes to just these 5 severely hurts the game as a whole because of the lack of interest from so many player types.
I think they should either:
1. hold release another few months to include atleast another 3 or so classes to better round out player types available (my suggestions would be ranger, battlecleric, and warlock)
2. if these 3 or so classes are already implemented at a basic level and not released solely for "polish", i hate to say it but I would rather have a few "rushed" classes that will need patches to fix than release without those classes, for a few reasons. as i said above i think the release in general will be hurt by the exclusion of these classes and the associated player types, and second, I would rather be able to play a rough character that i'm aware will get patches but fits my play style than have to play a class that might be well polished but isnt my style, even knowing that eventually i will get to start all over with a character i really like.
3. release with just these 5, but make it absolutely clear that these other classes are coming by doing several things, first release it to the public before release that on top of these 5, these other 3-5 are going to be released over the next X months. second, make these classes obviously visible in the class selection area, just unselectable with a "coming soon" to make sure even people not paying attention will be able to see these are coming. this is my least favorite option but it would hopefully alleviate the initial judgement that the game doesnt have a character that fits a play style that might keep a player from trying it, hopefully they'd try another and even if they leave they'd have a timeline and an incentive to hopefully check back.
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elveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 336
the problem is the game will be largely judged on its release content
once the public at large give it a once over, read a review or 2 and decide not to play it because it feels "incomplete" or it doesnt have any character types they're interested in, then 90% of the time they dont come back to check 6 months later. I'm just saying i think the narrowing of classes to just these 5 severely hurts the game as a whole because of the lack of interest from so many player types.
I am not sure that this is the case. It certainly was several years ago but games like League of Legends and Smite showed that you can release the game with limited content initially and as long as you keep adding on character classes afterwards you keep the playerbase happy and growing. If they manage to keep a regular schedule on release dates for classes(one each month/month-and-a-half/two months) and promote the releases adequately they should be able to keep the interest in the game alive and new players will keep coming in. Their class videos so far really remind me of character spotlights in other games so I guess it might be the case.
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makari2180Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited March 2013
elve you're comparing apples to oranges
first, this is an rpg, where you're somewhat expected to make a character and then continue to progress with him, even with subs / alts you still progress those individual characters with significant time input and character growth, unlike both of those games where in their match form you pick a character and play it for 20min to an hour before moving on, next match you can pick a different character and it doesnt matter
second, both those games released with a significant number of champions and playstyles to begin with, LoL i believe released with 40 champions, smite i'm not that familiar with but just being that style game I'd bet on more than 12 at release.
in this type of game players are much less accepting of not having a character that fits them, because they know they are going to have a significant investment in whatever character they choose, that isnt easily transferred to something that gets released later. Like i said with my option #3, i really hope that if they atleast let players know exactly what classes are coming and a schedule of release for them, hopefully players would either wait playing something else or atleast return back to check the class they really want, but even then i think players of rpgs are less accepting of this than other types of games with less character investment
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elveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 336
edited March 2013
30 champions for Smite I think
Yes, you are right - the games are quite different and I just pointed them out as games that launched with limited content but are now a lot larger. I think Cryptic has similar strategy with Champions Online when it comes to archetypes and DCUO also releases a new champion power set once in a while and there are several other MMORPGs that do that occasionally. I don't think that kind of thing have been done properly with MMOs though. Still I believe it can be done. With the foundry system there is unlimited amount of content characters can experience during leveling. The hard part now is to create proper endgame and to give players plenty of playstyles to experience with different classes.
i'v always had a ranger/hunter and that is what most elfs are i got the $60 founders pack with the wolf so i could be a elf ranger but will i still be able to use the wolf if they do come out with the ranger after lanch? if i don't use him? some one PM me and let me know pls and ty so kindly !
will i get the wolf on all my charcters with the $60 founder's pack or is it only 1 of my charcters pls let me know pls and ty so kindly why i want to know is i don't want to use it on 1 and not beable to use it again ty so kindly again!:)
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elveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 336
edited March 2013
You get the mount and wolf from the founder's pack to all characters you create. You will have companions even if you have not bought the founder's pack.
You get the mount and wolf from the founder's pack to all characters you create. You will have companions even if you have not bought the founder's pack.
I'll have to test it on Friday,, but there was a companion vendor right after you finished with the "intro" sequence. You might be able to buy the Falcon (DO NOT GET THE GHOST, unless they changed it) right at level 4. Would be interesting...
The archer class is in the game, as a player found it when he datamined the code. Just a question when they will announce it officially.
Some PARTS of it was found, not the entire thing. So it's a safe bet to assume that it will come at some point in time but at present I believe that it's not yet finished. Same with the scurge warlock that was found the same way.
Now I believe that they said that dual wield ranger and something else was slated to be the first two additions after launch.
Some PARTS of it was found, not the entire thing. So it's a safe bet to assume that it will come at some point in time but at present I believe that it's not yet finished. Same with the scurge warlock that was found the same way.
Now I believe that they said that dual wield ranger and something else was slated to be the first two additions after launch.
karasandraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited March 2013
Lol stop freaking out about which class's you want. Cause if you want it they most likely are already thinking about it and coming up with ideas for it or already in the development phase with it and just don't think it is good enough to show it. The coders and creators did not just randomly start making this game they have the same love for it as you.
Still...since its an MMO hopefully we won't have to deal with too many of the useless mechanics from the pen and paper...
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dividabletripodMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited March 2013
I'm glad you mention the dual wield ranger. I can't see it NOT being in the game anyhow, but I still love seeing this post. I play 3.5 generally, but still this is my favorite class across the board whether 3.5, 4ed or even crossing to Pathfinder as far as "current standard" Table tops are concerned.
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dividabletripodMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 7Arc User
Some PARTS of it was found, not the entire thing. So it's a safe bet to assume that it will come at some point in time but at present I believe that it's not yet finished. Same with the scurge warlock that was found the same way.
Now I believe that they said that dual wield ranger and something else was slated to be the first two additions after launch.
I'm glad you mention the dual wield ranger. I can't see it NOT being in the game anyhow, but I still love seeing this post. I play 3.5 generally, but still this is my favorite class across the board whether 3.5, 4ed or even crossing to Pathfinder as far as "current standard" Table tops are concerned.
Why are most of your posts combative? Not just here, but other threads?
So I'm not allowed to speak out if I think something presented is wrong? And personally I see my previous reply here more as explanatory than combative, since I see those two situations as significantly different.
It is all semantics... the code is in game.. that will most likely be the first two "new" classes that come out.
From what I remember they have said that it's the dual-wield ranger and something I forgotten that will be the two first after launch. More likely that archer ranger and scourge warlock will be in the second or third addition of classes.
Can you post the link to this? Because I heard in the MMORPG playtest that "Rangers were DnD"... "It is important to us to make this feel DnD" (those are -ish quotes, I dont remember exactly , I posted it some where or you can check out the video).
Then the datamine came out with the Archer and Scourge... and Dragonborn... sooooo that is telling me they are putting those options in the game and have not finished hashing things out, or perhaps it got mixed in from the alpha code and put there on accident thinking it would be ok. Nonetheless, those are two classes and the race that will probably be coming out after launch.
I really have to disagree with a couple of the choices here and the fact they are in a group.
Warlocks and Druids are not really defined as arcane or divine, or even "primal".
Warlocks just need their own deal. Honestly, this has to be the easiest translation to a MMO with the way their abilities worked in PnP. In 3.5 they could get 15d6 ranged attacked (minus the extra shenanigans for effects) that could be repeated unlimited.
Druids... Druids should be druids. This class is always an afterthought. No one stone me, but Druids were actually handled pretty good by WoW. Better than Neverwinter Nights and D&D Online. They are versitile, by healing, buffing, debuffing, shapeshifting and nukes. I like this class (not sure about 4th ed though) and wish oblivious publishers and developers would stop <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> this class up.
Sorry for mini rant : / Druids get me fired up. Wizard then Druid... that is what I like to play in that order in MMO and PnP.
in 4th ed. which the games is based off of the warlock is defined as arcane (pg. 129 phb) and the Druid is defined as primal (pg. 82 phb2)
Druids were broke in 3.0 LOL! You could dump all your physical stats and wildshape into pretty much anything and take on their physical stats. I think Pathfinder's "fix" is pretty good to Druid. And it still feels like a druid.
xxxcassMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited March 2013
Man, stop this. Pretige Classes and a wide variety of other class are the hallmark of the dungeons and dragons. We need all the basic classes at laest.
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necrosiahMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited March 2013
What is 4.0? I remember 3.5 and somehow we magically skipped to 5 =P
Comments
the problem is the game will be largely judged on its release content
once the public at large give it a once over, read a review or 2 and decide not to play it because it feels "incomplete" or it doesnt have any character types they're interested in, then 90% of the time they dont come back to check 6 months later. I'm just saying i think the narrowing of classes to just these 5 severely hurts the game as a whole because of the lack of interest from so many player types.
I think they should either:
1. hold release another few months to include atleast another 3 or so classes to better round out player types available (my suggestions would be ranger, battlecleric, and warlock)
2. if these 3 or so classes are already implemented at a basic level and not released solely for "polish", i hate to say it but I would rather have a few "rushed" classes that will need patches to fix than release without those classes, for a few reasons. as i said above i think the release in general will be hurt by the exclusion of these classes and the associated player types, and second, I would rather be able to play a rough character that i'm aware will get patches but fits my play style than have to play a class that might be well polished but isnt my style, even knowing that eventually i will get to start all over with a character i really like.
3. release with just these 5, but make it absolutely clear that these other classes are coming by doing several things, first release it to the public before release that on top of these 5, these other 3-5 are going to be released over the next X months. second, make these classes obviously visible in the class selection area, just unselectable with a "coming soon" to make sure even people not paying attention will be able to see these are coming. this is my least favorite option but it would hopefully alleviate the initial judgement that the game doesnt have a character that fits a play style that might keep a player from trying it, hopefully they'd try another and even if they leave they'd have a timeline and an incentive to hopefully check back.
I am not sure that this is the case. It certainly was several years ago but games like League of Legends and Smite showed that you can release the game with limited content initially and as long as you keep adding on character classes afterwards you keep the playerbase happy and growing. If they manage to keep a regular schedule on release dates for classes(one each month/month-and-a-half/two months) and promote the releases adequately they should be able to keep the interest in the game alive and new players will keep coming in. Their class videos so far really remind me of character spotlights in other games so I guess it might be the case.
first, this is an rpg, where you're somewhat expected to make a character and then continue to progress with him, even with subs / alts you still progress those individual characters with significant time input and character growth, unlike both of those games where in their match form you pick a character and play it for 20min to an hour before moving on, next match you can pick a different character and it doesnt matter
second, both those games released with a significant number of champions and playstyles to begin with, LoL i believe released with 40 champions, smite i'm not that familiar with but just being that style game I'd bet on more than 12 at release.
in this type of game players are much less accepting of not having a character that fits them, because they know they are going to have a significant investment in whatever character they choose, that isnt easily transferred to something that gets released later. Like i said with my option #3, i really hope that if they atleast let players know exactly what classes are coming and a schedule of release for them, hopefully players would either wait playing something else or atleast return back to check the class they really want, but even then i think players of rpgs are less accepting of this than other types of games with less character investment
Yes, you are right - the games are quite different and I just pointed them out as games that launched with limited content but are now a lot larger. I think Cryptic has similar strategy with Champions Online when it comes to archetypes and DCUO also releases a new champion power set once in a while and there are several other MMORPGs that do that occasionally. I don't think that kind of thing have been done properly with MMOs though. Still I believe it can be done. With the foundry system there is unlimited amount of content characters can experience during leveling. The hard part now is to create proper endgame and to give players plenty of playstyles to experience with different classes.
I'll have to test it on Friday,, but there was a companion vendor right after you finished with the "intro" sequence. You might be able to buy the Falcon (DO NOT GET THE GHOST, unless they changed it) right at level 4. Would be interesting...
When you want to break the mold
BETA Tips and Tricks
Never saw Pants in beta?
When you want to break the mold
BETA Tips and Tricks
Never saw Pants in beta?
Now I believe that they said that dual wield ranger and something else was slated to be the first two additions after launch.
Semantics...
When you want to break the mold
BETA Tips and Tricks
Never saw Pants in beta?
Still...since its an MMO hopefully we won't have to deal with too many of the useless mechanics from the pen and paper...
I'm glad you mention the dual wield ranger. I can't see it NOT being in the game anyhow, but I still love seeing this post. I play 3.5 generally, but still this is my favorite class across the board whether 3.5, 4ed or even crossing to Pathfinder as far as "current standard" Table tops are concerned.
Why are most of your posts combative? Not just here, but other threads?
It is all semantics... the code is in game.. that will most likely be the first two "new" classes that come out.
When you want to break the mold
BETA Tips and Tricks
Never saw Pants in beta?
From what I remember they have said that it's the dual-wield ranger and something I forgotten that will be the two first after launch. More likely that archer ranger and scourge warlock will be in the second or third addition of classes.
Then the datamine came out with the Archer and Scourge... and Dragonborn... sooooo that is telling me they are putting those options in the game and have not finished hashing things out, or perhaps it got mixed in from the alpha code and put there on accident thinking it would be ok. Nonetheless, those are two classes and the race that will probably be coming out after launch.
Semantics is the when part. Thank you.
When you want to break the mold
BETA Tips and Tricks
Never saw Pants in beta?
in 4th ed. which the games is based off of the warlock is defined as arcane (pg. 129 phb) and the Druid is defined as primal (pg. 82 phb2)
Druids were broke in 3.0 LOL! You could dump all your physical stats and wildshape into pretty much anything and take on their physical stats. I think Pathfinder's "fix" is pretty good to Druid. And it still feels like a druid.
When you want to break the mold
BETA Tips and Tricks
Never saw Pants in beta?
I going to still play but I will be waiting for a Warlock class as well as a Blackguard (fingers cross) =P