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Help create a neverwinter wiki

gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
edited October 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
Hello all,
(followup of conversation with truthseeker)

As most games have a wiki, I thought it would be a good idea to create a Neverwinter Game Wiki. However, I don't know much about it. I don't think there is a way to create a wiki on official server? I asked around, one of my friends told me that wikia has wiki's of some games.

Please let me know about what you think we should do about the wiki. Should we create one?

What my opinion on the matter is to start a wiki on wikia, in case any official wiki comes along later for us users, maybe we can import it to the official wiki. We can start with the format of some other wiki like I saw one for star wars or WoW on wikia.

If you think its a good idea, let me know and maybe we can start the project in collaboration?
Post edited by gillrmn on
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Comments

  • seikilosseikilos Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    PWE has their own wiki (I think)
    http://fw-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Main_Page
    http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Main_Page

    Not sure who created them though, players or staff.

    Edit: "To contribute to the wiki, make sure you are logged into your Perfect World Account. For more information on how to edit the wiki, please visit the official User's Guide here. If you are editing a page, please include an edit summary documenting the changes you made to the page.

    Before editing, make sure to read the 'Editing Conventions' page to learn the formalities."
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Yes checked them out. But they are PWI and FW wiki. Not for other games. Can't do nything there.

    Rusty hearts, another of PW games, has a wiki on wikia.

    However, Cryptic has official wiki for CO and STO. So do we have to wait for them to create an official wiki for us? How does that process goes? Or do we create a wiki like that for rusty hearts?
  • matixzonmatixzon Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    gillrmn wrote: »

    However, Cryptic has official wiki for CO and STO. So do we have to wait for them to create an official wiki for us? How does that process goes? Or do we create a wiki like that for rusty hearts?

    Actually, those wikis are player made, cryptic has no control whatsoever over them.
    @mawexzon

    I like cats :cool:.

    UGC Campaign: The Coldblooded Scrolls
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    matixzon wrote: »
    Actually, those wikis are player made, cryptic has no control whatsoever over them.

    I see, I guess I will wait till sunday and let more ideas ome up. And later, maybe if more users agree, we can start with one on wikia.

    And later if they come up with official wiki, we can just copy paste it all. Copy-Pasting shouldn't be that hard.
  • seikilosseikilos Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Well we'll need the game to come out first until we can put anything on the wiki. I know my way around web designing so I might help out if I have time.
  • melanderimelanderi Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users, Cryptic Developers, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Founder's Pack Users, Silverstars Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2012
    A wiki is a great idea! We probably won't have one until after the game launches, however as with some of the other PWE games, we do comb the forums for guides and walkthroughs to add to the wiki. It might be better to wait until the CB launches (I know, I can hear your groans through the interwebz), because then there will be actual info to write up, such as class guides. The wiki is a group effort to update, and we love having player contributions!
    Pixilated Community Entity
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  • aavarius1aavarius1 Member Posts: 36
    edited June 2012
    I recommend the Wikia route since the CO and STO wikis are already there. IMO that keeps all the Cryptic stuff under one roof. I will say, however, that if those two games' wikis are any indication, keeping up with the Neverwinter wiki is going to be a big, damn undertaking, so if we do it I think we should do it right and make it really polished and informative. The people that manage and contribute to STO and CO's wikis do a great job so it would probably be in our best interest to contact them for advice.
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,364 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I've got experience creating and maintaining wikis.

    I think Wikia might be the best bet, since it seems to have the easiest learning curve and some great built in extensions. However it has weaknesses, especially if you choose to upgrade later on.

    So what does anyone have to say about which companies to host/design on? Any ideas really...

    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
    No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
  • granmazzogranmazzo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Hey hey hey wonderful idea
  • iamtruthseekeriamtruthseeker Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Yeah, I can say I've done many things, but the creation of a wiki is not one of them. Helping edit and maintain once it's up, OK, but desktop publishing was never a big thing for me. But I will gladly defer to gillrmn and aandrethegiant's idea and expertise respectively and help when I can; just ask me to do something, and if it's in my ability I will.


    But yeah, creation and upkeep do seem to be quite a timesink. As to whether we want to create a basic frame and wait for CB or wait for CB before creating something altogether also needs to be decided. Either way, melanderi has a point.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • qumi0qumi0 Member Posts: 154 Arc User
    edited June 2012
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    qumi0 wrote: »

    No, but it doesn't matter. Someone has created it so lets go help contibute ;)

    Attackkk!!!

    EDIT: It seems it was created in 2010? It seems it needs to be updated badly.
  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited June 2012
    Too many ads for me. One or two would be fine, but goodness sakes, wikia really has sunk a bit. I'll wait for PWE's own game wikia, hoping they make one. If anything relating to Neverwinter is going to be making ad revenue off of me, I'd rather have it be the company making said game.

    No use in suggesting ad blockers, I do not use them nor do I condone with what they do. They, in essence, rob web sites of revenue. Which, in my opinion, should be a criminal offense akin to stealing. It's like sneaking in the back door of a movie theatre or some other place that charges admission. For free web sites, ads are their "admission fee." If a web site is just "so bad" with ads, I'll simply not use it and make my opinion(s) known about the issue, if I feel very strongly on that particular case.

    Perfect World/Cryptic, please enable http://nw-wiki.perfectworld.com like you have done for:

    Then, once enabled, put very visible link to said wiki on the main Neverwinter page and a redirect link on the forum category listing page.

    Thank you for your time.
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,364 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    zebular wrote: »
    Too many ads for me. One or two would be fine, but goodness sakes, wikia really has sunk a bit. I'll wait for PWE's own game wikia, hoping they make one. If anything relating to Neverwinter is going to be making ad revenue off of me, I'd rather have it be the company making said game.

    No use in suggesting ad blockers, I do not use them nor do I condone with what they do. They, in essence, rob web sites of revenue. Which, in my opinion, should be a criminal offense akin to stealing. It's like sneaking in the back door of a movie theatre or some other place that charges admission. For free web sites, ads are their "admission fee." If a web site is just "so bad" with ads, I'll simply not use it and make my opinion(s) known about the issue, if I feel very strongly on that particular case.

    Perfect World/Cryptic, please enable http://nw-wiki.perfectworld.com like you have done for:

    Then, once enabled, put very visible link to said wiki on the main Neverwinter page and a redirect link on the forum category listing page.

    Thank you for your time.

    You might want to take a look at DDO's official wiki vs DDOwiki. An official wiki is usually very basic. Most companies just dont have the time to invest, and cant even attempt to compete with an ever evolving TEAM of dedicated wiki contributors. The PW wikis you links are bare essentials. A user generated wiki has the bare essentials too, but users can create/publish much, much more information and guides that can prove beneficial to educating newcomers and be an invaluable source to the more seasoned gamers. You're just not going to get that in an official wiki.

    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
    No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited June 2012
    You might want to take a look at DDO's official wiki vs DDOwiki. An official wiki is usually very basic. Most companies just dont have the time to invest, and cant even attempt to compete with an ever evolving TEAM of dedicated wiki contributors. The PW wikis you links are bare essentials. A user generated wiki has the bare essentials too, but users can create/publish much, much more information and guides that can prove beneficial to educating newcomers and be an invaluable source to the more seasoned gamers. You're just not going to get that in an official wiki.

    Seeing how all of PWE's wikis are editable by registered users, I do not see your point as to why an officially hosted wiki would be worse. If players put as much effort into an official wiki as they do "their own," then there wouldn't be an issue with DDO's wiki. Unfortunately, people tend to do what will get them recognition rather than what would be the wiser and more productive course of action.
    Please note that all contributions to FWpedia may be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.

    I'd actually suggest that officially hosted wikis would be better, if not only for revenue, but also for ease of access and visibility. As well, there is no relying on a 3rd party that has no official connection to said game. As well, there would be no worry about a 3rd party's web site security, as was the case in one recent 3rd-party wiki site with some infected ads.
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,364 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    zebular wrote: »
    Seeing how all of PWE's wikis are editable by registered users, I do not see your point as to why an officially hosted wiki would be worse.

    Ok, well, I dont play those games or administer those wiki, but I can tell you from personal and professional experience, if PW doesn't like an entry, they can ditch the comment and possibly the author. An 100% independent, user generated and maintained wiki has far more creative license to design it to OUR liking, and insert the information WE wish to have on it.

    There's nothing wrong with an official wiki, but with the girth of information that can be useful to gamers, and the limitations alone that I have mentioned, I think a separate wiki would be more popular and used more often. Just my 2 cents

    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
    No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,364 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    zebular wrote: »
    Unfortunately, people tend to do what will get them recognition rather than what would be the wiser and more productive course of action.

    So people are going to spend time, lots of time, on helping the community, and you are going to mark them down as attention hores? Really?? Thats a really good way to get the community going in the right direction Zebular...

    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
    No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited June 2012
    if PW doesn't like an entry, they can ditch the comment and possibly the author.
    Just as can the "owner" or "administrators" of an unofficial wiki. So, I still fail to see why such a point has any real bearing on such. In my professional opinion, it is one's own fault for being banned from a site or data removed from a wiki. Banned users or those that violate rules shouldn't be allowed to add or edit official wikis anyway.


    I'd much rather have Perfect World/Cryptic administering anything I contribute to a Wiki rather than anonymous people with their own agendas, opinions and grievances. At least with an official administration, one can dispute things in a professional manner and expect professional results.

    I won't respond to your other vulgar comment other than this, please do not put words in my mouth or try to take my words and meaning out of context.
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,364 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    zebular wrote: »
    I'd much rather have Perfect World/Cryptic administering anything I contribute to a Wiki rather than anonymous people with their own agendas, opinions and grievances.

    "Agendas and grievances" really dont have a place in a D&D wiki, of any type.

    So, you'd rather have a wiki of say 50 pages of data, as opposed to hundreds of pages? A few hundred edits, as apposed to many thousands of edits?

    The DDOwiki for example has been accessed 9,542,346 times. The official DDO wiki called the Compendium would hit that number in about 150 YEARS. Game developers usually dont have the TIME and resources (they will not do it for free) to put their people on a wiki, to "do it right." That's why well done wikis are normally independently run, and are a valuable resource, and why so many gamers use them.

    Again I have nothing against a PWE Neverwinter wiki, I certainly would like to see it. As Melanderi states however, he'd appreciate the initial community effort... And this will really tick you off Zeb, I think those of us who plan to play the game for years should feel good about helping your fellow gamers out if you have the time and the gumption.

    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
    No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited June 2012
    "Agendas and grievances" really dont have a place in a D&D wiki, of any type.

    So, you'd rather have a wiki of say 50 pages of data, as opposed to hundreds of pages? A few hundred edits, as apposed to many thousands of edits?

    The DDOwiki for example has been accessed 9,542,346 times. The official DDO wiki called the Compendium would hit that number in about 150 YEARS. Game developers usually dont have the TIME and resources (they will not do it for free) to put their people on a wiki, to "do it right." That's why well done wikis are normally independently run, and are a valuable resource, and why so many gamers use them.

    Again I have nothing against a PWE Neverwinter wiki, I certainly would like to see it. As Melanderi states however, he'd appreciate the initial community effort... And this will really tick you off Zeb, I think those of us who plan to play the game for years should feel good about helping your fellow gamers out.

    If an official wiki has as much user effort put into it as an unnofical one, then I fail to see why you would ask me if, "I'd rather have a wiki of say 50 pages of data, as opposed to hundreds of pages? A few hundred edits, as apposed to many thousands of edits?"

    All that is needed for an official wiki is for the officials to allow volunteers to administer the wiki database. Those volunteers would then be able to be held accountable for their actions in cases of any disputes regarding improper censorship, deletions or other related issues that you mention. Furthermore, we wouldn't have to worry about who's hosting it, updating it and paying for the domain name, hostage and bandwith fees. Keep an official ad or two keep maintenance fees down or non-existent. One or two officially maintained ads would be far better than randomly placed ads that could potentially (and have in the past) been infected with malware or even trojans.
    "And this will really tick you off Zeb, I think those of us who plan to play the game for years should feel good about helping your fellow gamers out."

    Why would that tick me off? I also feel this way but I also feel that we should also be helping out our fellow developers as well. Why segregate the information? Why not keep in all in one place, on one official site? Such is a win-win for both our fellow gamers and our developing company and their partners.
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,364 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Yeah, I can say I've done many things, but the creation of a wiki is not one of them. Helping edit and maintain once it's up, OK, but desktop publishing was never a big thing for me. But I will gladly defer to gillrmn and aandrethegiant's idea and expertise respectively and help when I can; just ask me to do something, and if it's in my ability I will.

    But yeah, creation and upkeep do seem to be quite a timesink. As to whether we want to create a basic frame and wait for CB or wait for CB before creating something altogether also needs to be decided. Either way, melanderi has a point.

    Malenderi make a very valid point. There's not nearly enough data to start it now... however once closed beta gets off the ground... THAT would be a great time.

    Sadly time will be a challenge for me, but I certainly have the initiative to either contribute or administer it ... Regardless who runs the show, time can be alleviated by trustworthy dedicated contributors, and an administrator and a community that's appreciative.

    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
    No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
  • iamtruthseekeriamtruthseeker Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Well, whatever (and whenever) it is decided to do, I vote for quality over quantity and a clearly designed page, with some sub-pages if we really need minutiae.

    The page should be descriptive to those who have not ever known about NWO (to the whole D&D game as newbies, to those knowing D&D but not this NWO game, and to those who played the NWN series but don't know of this game.) Other details can be linked to said sub-pages.


    Sound like a good idea?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,364 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Well, whatever (and whenever) it is decided to do, I vote for quality over quantity and a clearly designed page, with some sub-pages if we really need minutiae.

    The page should be descriptive to those who have not ever known about NWO (to the whole D&D game as newbies, to those knowing D&D but not this NWO game, and to those who played the NWN series but don't know of this game.) Other details can be linked to said sub-pages.


    Sound like a good idea?

    We can definitely agree on quality over quantity, but hopefully we get both.

    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
    No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
  • melanderimelanderi Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users, Cryptic Developers, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Founder's Pack Users, Silverstars Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2012
    Yep- as soon as the closed beta launches, I expect that there will be many posts that can be migrated to a wiki. I look forward to seeing class guides and even lore guides! Maintaining the wiki will be a group effort, and I'll definitely be pitching in. I think with how dedicated our community is here we won't have any trouble filling up a wiki with pages about everything from Classes to specific NPC backgrounds and more.
    Pixilated Community Entity
    @Effreet in game
    Terms of Service and Rules of Conduct. Learn them, Love them
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Ahem ... lets not fight over - your own, my own wiki stuff. All the wikis belong to all of us, like all your base are belongs to us (BOOM)
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    oops! wrong expression. The point is, official wiki would be good as in my opinion IP(intellectual property) issues won't arise on such a server. Other wiki - I am not sure. Hope Melandri can put some light on it.

    However, as I said before in the start - lets do with what we have. Later when stuff is provided to us, we will "TRANSFER" our base from point A to point B.

    b:laugh

    <<Ugghhh... first time using the smile, I feel strange, kind of ... ... ... violated? kind of a complex feeling>>
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Because nobody has yet touched the wiki in two years, I am planning to start with the frontpage - background of the wiki. I trust that others will add/edit to it as I add.

    Please let us know what part you are editing here so we/others can divert their effort towards something else.

    The background which I plan on inserting there is this (unreferenced. Referencing, grammer and formatting would take up most time I believe.
    Painful memories of master thesis refresh in mind
    Transferred to wiki


    Needs sub pages:-
    Abeir-Toril (merger and stuff)
    Calander of Faerun
    Spellplague
    Factions
    Outlying Areas: (Helm's Hold; Llast; Woods(Dread ring, Sharandar, Hotenow), Mere, etc.)
  • iamtruthseekeriamtruthseeker Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Since it seems to take a lot of attention on my FAQ, I'll be glad to take over the races and classes section. Somebody was nice enough to update the races 15 hours earlier from ths posting date, but I am hesitant to update the classes short of removing the "mouse over the character portraits," and noting the ranger class is unforfirmed currently.

    I was considering mentioning how the class builds work there as well as list them, but have decided at the moment to hold off until we know what planned builds are going to be released at launch and what ones are going to be confirmed released at a future date.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Since it seems to take a lot of attention on my FAQ, I'll be glad to take over the races and classes section. Somebody was nice enough to update the races 15 hours earlier from ths posting date, but I am hesitant to update the classes short of removing the "mouse over the character portraits," and noting the ranger class is unforfirmed currently.

    I was considering mentioning how the class builds work there as well as list them, but have decided at the moment to hold off until we know what planned builds are going to be released at launch and what ones are going to be confirmed released at a future date.

    Ah... just stopped updating classes. I think it is ripe to be edited now. It was kind of a mess before so I just listed everything up. Next, just create a subpage for each and link them. Even if in future all the classes come by, it would be fine :)

    I can take up the classes, that won't be that hard, I think what is better is you take the game mechanics section. Just make a format so anybody can keep on adding to that format. Make it so that it won't get old or bulky with time.
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Update

    Wiki looks like this now:-

    NW Game, background
    |-Classes
    | |-Martial
    | | |-Fighter
    | |-Divine
    | | |-Cleric
    | |-Arcane
    | | |-Wizard
    | |-Psionic
    | |-Shadow
    | |-Mixed
    |
    |-Races
    |
    |-Foundry
    |
    |-Regions
    | |-Vellosk
    |-<empty>
  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited June 2012
    gillrmn wrote: »
    However, as I said before in the start - lets do with what we have. Later when stuff is provided to us, we will "TRANSFER" our base from point A to point B.

    Sounds great to me. For now, I'll pitch in my expertise on grammar, spelling, formatting and punctuation as you all seem to be doing awesome work at getting what data we do have set up. Mad props to you all on this! The only thing that I see that I can really contribute to, at this point, is just making sure everything is grammatically correct and such. I'll add in any lore that I feel might be needed, however my knowledge of post-spellplague lore is quite lacking, so I'll be taking a back-seat to that while I catch up. My campaign is still Arcane Age and I have no plans on changing it to the current timeline any time soon.

    If any other proof reading needs to be done to things not yet in the Wiki, please do feel free to call upon me. I can be reached at my public email address of terraseer@gmail.com - just please be sure to note "Neverwinter Wiki" in the subject line so I can spot it easy through the hundreds of emails I get every day.

    Edit: Just have to say again... mad props to all who have contributed to the wikia so far. I just got done editing every page with minor edits to grammar and punctuation and man.. you all have done a remarkable job at adding information about the game and campaign setting thus far. I foresee good things, if this keeps up, regardless where the wiki is hosted!
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