My favorite 4ed wizard build so far has been a Genasi thunder blaster build. In my weekly game, my blaster does more damage than the strikers because I'm usually hitting several targets at once and through various methods of feat, item and race optimization.
While that works on the table top, I'm not sure how well that would work in a D&D 4ed MMO if they are going to hard code rules to ensure role continuity such as making sure controllers never out damage strikers.
I'd also worry about investing a lot of time in making a controller that is better at the striker role in case it ends up like DDO where you will have a tough time fitting into parties looking for you to fill a controller role. It's easier to get away with on table top because the controller role is the most expendable role. That won't necessarily be the case here. (My blaster considers death as the ultimate method of control)
Aside from all of this, there won't be Genasi, at least not in the beginning. Tiefling fire blasters can do as much or more damage than my current build though.
Ez
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2012
Until we find out if feats are used like tabletoip, let alone this kind of specific build is even possible, I wouldn't worry about the character "being excluded for being too powerful, and not a controller." To paraphrase NCIS: Los Angeles (not the mean social networking accusation ones,) that comes across as a humble brag anyway
However, I also play a Genasi Wizard (Sha'ir) lightning specialist, and kick butt very nicely at his beginning in the Dark Sun world (where either you do or die quite literally.) I would love to see your character's setup. In all fairness, here's mine:
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Aeshedier, level 3
Genasi, Wizard (Sha'ir)
Elemental Manifestation Option: Windsoul
Dark Sun, Inherent Bonuses
High Imaskar (High Imaskar Benefit)
Theme: Moteborn
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 18, DEX 11, INT 18, WIS 11, CHA 12
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 16, DEX 11, INT 16, WIS 11, CHA 12
If I build a wizard, I'll stick with my successful history of building a nuker. CC is not my forte. Every wizard should be able to provide buffs for the party, imo.
So, I'll focus on damage spells and buffs, and let the CC aspects slide by the wayside.
If, or course, such a build is possible in Neverwinter.
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roninrawrriorMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
If I build a wizard, I'll stick with my successful history of building a nuker. CC is not my forte. Every wizard should be able to provide buffs for the party, imo.
So, I'll focus on damage spells and buffs, and let the CC aspects slide by the wayside.
If, or course, such a build is possible in Neverwinter.
One of the problems if they stay true to the 4e ruleset is that most Wizard options weren't built around being a heavy duty nuker. They were more designed for flexible utility, clear out weak 1shotkill minions and debuff. Generally Warlocks were the main single target caster and Sorc was the AoE arcane striker. Sure Wizards in 4e could be min/maxed to put out some serious pain, but a min/maxed true striker class would pretty much always out damage a Wizard in most situations.
One of the problems if they stay true to the 4e ruleset is that most Wizard options weren't built around being a heavy duty nuker. They were more designed for flexible utility, clear out weak 1shotkill minions and debuff. Generally Warlocks were the main single target caster and Sorc was the AoE arcane striker. Sure Wizards in 4e could be min/maxed to put out some serious pain, but a min/maxed true striker class would pretty much always out damage a Wizard in most situations.
As it should be. Classes should be based on roles - striker, controller etc. Striker should always outdamage all other classes, while controller should have more utility than any other.
Otherwise soon we will have threads like - wizards are overpowered, or, strikers are worth xx etc etc. Defining the role and letting a class specialize in only one and one role would save much griefing.
One of the problems if they stay true to the 4e ruleset is that most Wizard options weren't built around being a heavy duty nuker. They were more designed for flexible utility, clear out weak 1shotkill minions and debuff. Generally Warlocks were the main single target caster and Sorc was the AoE arcane striker. Sure Wizards in 4e could be min/maxed to put out some serious pain, but a min/maxed true striker class would pretty much always out damage a Wizard in most situations.
Yep... Thanks for the extra info, I'm not familiar with 4e other than what I've read here. I am looking forward to seeing how the class builds look, and how they develop with level progression.
As gillrmn says, I too hope we stay true to roles, unlike what is happening with "balance" changes ongoing in other games. Nothing worse in a role playing game to have "balance" between all the classes, imo.
Edit - I can splel, I just catn tyep.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2012
Love it or hate it about 4E, roles are all but mandatory in it as well as classes. You really work best when you have roles of leader, striker, defender and controller, and suffer if you don't have at the very minimum two of the four (leader and defender one of the two at least for many games, but it woud be impossible to play without some form of striker and/or controller as well. Not you all die as you have no cleric, but exceptionally tough.)
It makes each class have its purpose and balance very well, and feel important whether in or out o combat.
Love it or hate it about 4E, roles are all but mandatory in it as well as classes. You really work best when you have roles of leader, striker, defender and controller, and suffer if you don't have at the very minimum two of the four (leader and defender one of the two at least for many games, but it woud be impossible to play without some form of striker and/or controller as well. Not you all die as you have no cleric, but exceptionally tough.)
It makes each class have its purpose and balance very well, and feel important whether in or out o combat.
4e was pretty much tailored built to mimic the mechanics found in video games. Will be interesting to see how well Cryptic can reverse the mechanics back into a video game. While the 4 core roles of Leader/Defender/Striker/Controller were firmly established 4e WotC did a fairly decent job at providing a wide variety of classes, builds, and options that add their own distinct flavor and play style to cover the core roles.
I know it's a pain to balance, but I really hope Cryptic will stray beyond just the iconic Cleric/Fighter/Rogue/Wizard classes and add in those other classes/builds to broaden the roles.
Illusionist. I loves me my illusions. Though if we're allowing anything from 4e, including essentials, I wouldn't mind a Necromancer from Heroes of Shadow.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2012
I actually enjoy the Nethermancer (Shadow) mage option.
Something with Necromancy and a few evocations/abjurations spells, but mostly necromancy
weeeee!
PM was my favourite build in 3e. But I start with arcane only after I get bored of divine classes. So I will try the new divine classes first before starting a necrotic class.
higherfasternowMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2012
K this is a strange one. or maybe not. i haven't gone through all the builds in this thread. if i could choose any type of wizard to play, and only if it had some insane DoT which it should have. it would be a wizard, like the one who works for jarlaxyl (sp?) in the RA salvatore books. what type of wizard is that?
K this is a strange one. or maybe not. i haven't gone through all the builds in this thread. if i could choose any type of wizard to play, and only if it had some insane DoT which it should have. it would be a wizard, like the one who works for jarlaxyl (sp?) in the RA salvatore books. what type of wizard is that?
I really love self-sustained casters that are lethal in PvP combat, particularly 1-on-1. I like casters that have things like Life-taps (especially), as well as mana-taps, and powerful DoT's (particularly AoE DoT's). On top of that I like to have a pet. This is a very Necromancer/Warlock type class. I played one just like it in Rift (which actually was a Necro/Warlock combo), but it was wayy underpowered, and the game was pretty lamesauce in general.
But a Wizard/Sorcerer who can keep himself with life-taps, steal mana, has a pet fighting by his side, and can spread dread all throughout the battle-field via AoE DoT's is pretty HAMSTER in my book. Also would want to have a bread/butter DD attack, and preferably some sort of mass raise dead on a fairly large cooldown.
Sounds like you want a cleric, Wizard is all about CC, few DoT's, no life taps, no mana taps, no useful pets, just lots and lots of CC
in ddo you can go evocation/necromancer/enchanter etc.
it really depends of you're playstyle you can be a buffer/debuffer, necromancer/summoner, iluzionist or the clasic evocation
i prefer generalist mage i never go specialized i prefer metamagics/SP and toughnes
in ddo you can go evocation/necromancer/enchanter etc.
it really depends of you're playstyle you can be a buffer/debuffer, necromancer/summoner, iluzionist or the clasic evocation
i prefer generalist mage i never go specialized i prefer metamagics/SP and toughnes
The active battle is a new experiment and they want to take it slow. If you have a look at 4e, all those builds are still available and more. SO they will slowly be added. Maybe once the demand from users is high enough, we will have multiclass then hybrids too.
But it is good they are taking it slow. I hate how DDO had become a min/max fest. It better if they handle balance more delicately.
if this game wants succes it must not copy wow.
99% of mmo are wow clones and people are fed up with them.
it needs to be more nwn 1 with socializing options
and all clases in nwn 1 are needed. there is no d&d without the fine diferences between fighter/barbarian or sorc/wizard.
We need also multiclasing and it will have succes all over it, people are not very optimist about rpgs going mmo at the moment because all copy the wow systemb:shocked
...
there is no d&d without the fine diferences between fighter/barbarian or sorc/wizard.
...
If this is what you want, game seems to go in this direction with pre-defined builds. The fact that the devs have shown controller wizard indicates that maybe they will release sorcerer as magic striker or DPS god(maybe a dragon magic sorcerer). Because of predefined builds excelling in certain roles, I am sure that the fine difference in wiz/sorc will feel like nwn (rather than DDO which was not very good - at least an year ago, not aware of recent changes). Also this might make sure the certain things are not exploited - like stat allocation.
Regarding multiclass -
What was called multiclass in 3e is called hybrid in 4e (multiclass is something completely different now). In 4e, multiclassing is much more balanced imo. But will we see it, when will we see it? - I am not sure of any answer to these questions.
Comments
While that works on the table top, I'm not sure how well that would work in a D&D 4ed MMO if they are going to hard code rules to ensure role continuity such as making sure controllers never out damage strikers.
I'd also worry about investing a lot of time in making a controller that is better at the striker role in case it ends up like DDO where you will have a tough time fitting into parties looking for you to fill a controller role. It's easier to get away with on table top because the controller role is the most expendable role. That won't necessarily be the case here. (My blaster considers death as the ultimate method of control)
Aside from all of this, there won't be Genasi, at least not in the beginning. Tiefling fire blasters can do as much or more damage than my current build though.
Ez
However, I also play a Genasi Wizard (Sha'ir) lightning specialist, and kick butt very nicely at his beginning in the Dark Sun world (where either you do or die quite literally.) I would love to see your character's setup. In all fairness, here's mine:
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Aeshedier, level 3
Genasi, Wizard (Sha'ir)
Elemental Manifestation Option: Windsoul
Dark Sun, Inherent Bonuses
High Imaskar (High Imaskar Benefit)
Theme: Moteborn
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 18, DEX 11, INT 18, WIS 11, CHA 12
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 16, DEX 11, INT 16, WIS 11, CHA 12
AC: 15 Fort: 15 Ref: 15 Will: 14
HP: 36 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 9
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +12, History +10, Nature +8, Religion +10
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +1, Athletics +0, Bluff +2, Diplomacy +2, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance +7, Heal +1, Insight +1, Intimidate +2, Perception +1, Stealth +1, Streetwise +2, Thievery +1
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Moteborn Attack: Summon Flame Zephyr
Genasi Racial Power: Windwalker
Wizard Utility: Chameleon's Mask
Wizard Utility: Spook
Wizard Utility: Suggestion
Wizard Utility: Prestidigitation
Wild Talent Cantrip: Know Direction
: Arcane Defiling
Wizard Attack 1: Arc Lightning
Wizard Attack 1: Witch Bolt
Wizard Attack 1: Scare
Wizard Attack 1: Empowering Lightning
Wizard Attack 1: Rolling Thunder
Wizard Utility 2: Familiar Harrier
Wizard Attack 3: Shock Sphere
FEATS
Arcane Familiar
Level 1: Mark of Storm
Level 2: Superior Implement Training (Rowan wand)
ITEMS
Staff Implement
Quarterstaff
Backpack (empty)
Bedroll
Belt Pouch (empty)
Desert Clothing
Filter mask
Giant hair rope
Survival Day
Dowsing Rod
Waterskin
Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) x1
Sunrod
Woundstitch Powder
Lightning Wand +1 x2
Endure Elements
Residuum (Any)
Body of Fire Ki Focus +1
====== End ======
So, I'll focus on damage spells and buffs, and let the CC aspects slide by the wayside.
If, or course, such a build is possible in Neverwinter.
One of the problems if they stay true to the 4e ruleset is that most Wizard options weren't built around being a heavy duty nuker. They were more designed for flexible utility, clear out weak 1shotkill minions and debuff. Generally Warlocks were the main single target caster and Sorc was the AoE arcane striker. Sure Wizards in 4e could be min/maxed to put out some serious pain, but a min/maxed true striker class would pretty much always out damage a Wizard in most situations.
As it should be. Classes should be based on roles - striker, controller etc. Striker should always outdamage all other classes, while controller should have more utility than any other.
Otherwise soon we will have threads like - wizards are overpowered, or, strikers are worth xx etc etc. Defining the role and letting a class specialize in only one and one role would save much griefing.
Yep... Thanks for the extra info, I'm not familiar with 4e other than what I've read here. I am looking forward to seeing how the class builds look, and how they develop with level progression.
As gillrmn says, I too hope we stay true to roles, unlike what is happening with "balance" changes ongoing in other games. Nothing worse in a role playing game to have "balance" between all the classes, imo.
Edit - I can splel, I just catn tyep.
It makes each class have its purpose and balance very well, and feel important whether in or out o combat.
4e was pretty much tailored built to mimic the mechanics found in video games. Will be interesting to see how well Cryptic can reverse the mechanics back into a video game. While the 4 core roles of Leader/Defender/Striker/Controller were firmly established 4e WotC did a fairly decent job at providing a wide variety of classes, builds, and options that add their own distinct flavor and play style to cover the core roles.
I know it's a pain to balance, but I really hope Cryptic will stray beyond just the iconic Cleric/Fighter/Rogue/Wizard classes and add in those other classes/builds to broaden the roles.
Something with Necromancy and a few evocations/abjurations spells, but mostly necromancy
weeeee!
Dragonfly Algorithm (IT Blog): http://dragonfly-algorithm.blogspot.com/
Mental Dragonfly (promo blog): http://mentaldragonfly.blogspot.com/
Chea's Journal (RP Blog): http://cheajournal.blogspot.com/
deviantART: http://neo-mahakala-108.deviantart.com/
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
OOOh, I don't know that, what is the magic from the Dragons of Babylon?
PM was my favourite build in 3e. But I start with arcane only after I get bored of divine classes. So I will try the new divine classes first before starting a necrotic class.
I AM,
--the truthseeker"
That's what i want to learn.
Dragonfly Algorithm (IT Blog): http://dragonfly-algorithm.blogspot.com/
Mental Dragonfly (promo blog): http://mentaldragonfly.blogspot.com/
Chea's Journal (RP Blog): http://cheajournal.blogspot.com/
deviantART: http://neo-mahakala-108.deviantart.com/
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
He has several. Could you be more specific?
Sounds like you want a cleric, Wizard is all about CC, few DoT's, no life taps, no mana taps, no useful pets, just lots and lots of CC
Why? They will have sorcerers eventually. And for now, I am sure you can make wizard to be primary controller and secondary dps.
in ddo you can go evocation/necromancer/enchanter etc.
it really depends of you're playstyle you can be a buffer/debuffer, necromancer/summoner, iluzionist or the clasic evocation
i prefer generalist mage i never go specialized i prefer metamagics/SP and toughnes
The active battle is a new experiment and they want to take it slow. If you have a look at 4e, all those builds are still available and more. SO they will slowly be added. Maybe once the demand from users is high enough, we will have multiclass then hybrids too.
But it is good they are taking it slow. I hate how DDO had become a min/max fest. It better if they handle balance more delicately.
99% of mmo are wow clones and people are fed up with them.
it needs to be more nwn 1 with socializing options
and all clases in nwn 1 are needed. there is no d&d without the fine diferences between fighter/barbarian or sorc/wizard.
We need also multiclasing and it will have succes all over it, people are not very optimist about rpgs going mmo at the moment because all copy the wow systemb:shocked
If this is what you want, game seems to go in this direction with pre-defined builds. The fact that the devs have shown controller wizard indicates that maybe they will release sorcerer as magic striker or DPS god(maybe a dragon magic sorcerer). Because of predefined builds excelling in certain roles, I am sure that the fine difference in wiz/sorc will feel like nwn (rather than DDO which was not very good - at least an year ago, not aware of recent changes). Also this might make sure the certain things are not exploited - like stat allocation.
Regarding multiclass -
What was called multiclass in 3e is called hybrid in 4e (multiclass is something completely different now). In 4e, multiclassing is much more balanced imo. But will we see it, when will we see it? - I am not sure of any answer to these questions.
Check the FAQs for all the information we know. [we are not hiding anything, honest :-) ]
AT launch 1-60 lvls (eq to 1-20 pnp lvls)