I the player apparently am a brickhouse **** in the dark room, but according to the game, it has the ability to move and attack as well as cancel/stop powers so already is not like Wow. Trolls do not get fed.
Oh, and thank you Mapolis for the info. Any chance you can tell us the next major date or date range of released information from Cryptic's Neverwinter team?
Anyway to all people that keep crying about making WoW game for me it's same as saying that all houses are same because they have kitchen, bathroom, bedroom and so on.
Can anyone even explain what wow game type means ?
For me it's a just childlish cry of a kind looking what's popular and going against it.
It's a rebellion of adolescence when you belive that you found a truth that other people are blind to notice but in reality it's only your lack of critical thinking and creating for yourself "false dilemma".
Anyway to all people that keep crying about making WoW game for me it's same as saying that all houses are same because they have kitchen, bathroom, bedroom and so on.
Can anyone even explain what wow game type means ?
For me it's a just childlish cry of a kind looking what's popular and going against it.
It's a rebellion of adolescence when you belive that you found a truth that other people are blind to notice but in reality it's only your lack of critical thinking and creating for yourself "false dilemma".
We'll have moving combat, powers over skills, and a tendency to group for social play without the plan of endgame PvP only (and the game getting to the end is higher priority than being at the end which right there is anti-WoW) and more delving with 5-people over huge groups of 16 at mission endings. Love it or hate it, it's not cloning like WoW for those reasons alone.
Oh yeah, the Foundry. Player content absolutely not like WoW.
But if people want to talk why it is, I'm open, or the other changes of topic they want or I thought of are fine.
... For me it's a just childlish cry of a kind looking what's popular and going against it.
...
I found a great sense of irony in that statement.
Aren't all games childish? Don't the adults try to find their lost childhood days and have fun in games? What is game actually, a digital interaction of social options... [*sigh* I miss my childhood days]
Better not put your opinions in a discussion or it will open a portal to the quagmire of opinions.
----
Although I do share frustration when people call neverwinter WoW-like. I also find it an immature comparison. Its like they are not knowledgeable enough to even put down the game. If I had to put it down, I would say it is DDO-clone (doesn't matter as combat, imo, seems better than DDO); or at least some punch line like common-MMOs plaguing the market - clone.
I usually facepalm and collect globules when I come across such a comment. Still, we can't deny that WoW was actually a very successful MMO which brought this MMO-boom. Suddenly everyone was into MMO, so they must have done something right.
EDIT: oops! Didnt realise it was the same thread in which I died... Well, can't delete the post, but please ignore it (unless u r a clr and can speak with dead)
Well we all have child inside but we have to remember that child is a selfish creature and part of our growing up is letting go of the selfishness and notes the need for other people.
Now to start thinking about important stuf I had idea about creating game inside game. I never playd real pnp game but i think it's somthing that people could like.
Let say that you could have pnp game inside the NWO world. Idea is simple you create normal party of 5 people in nwo and then you guys go to tawern. All of you sit down to one table where you have pnp game with figures of monsters etc.
One of the party members becomes dungeon master and other are normal players. It would be nice to have in game voice communicator with chat.
So it same as any classic pnp game but you can play at home.
There should be at least 3 maps with mobs you can find in nwo game. Cryptic could make money on selling new maps/monster etc.
I'm from Poland and in my country D&D pnp games where not so popular so maybe that's why i do not know much about dnd games, but Neverwinter pc game was something that many of my friends playd and remember so i think for people like me who never had exp with pnp Dnd a inside game can be a easy introduction to classic dnd.
No... there are games that are very clearly and very explicitly targeted at adult demographics. Also, there are games to change the world.
I think you misunderstood and took it out of context, its just one opinion from a quagmire of opinions which must not be touched lest it opens a pandora box of similar questions.
The only real way I see to stop the battle grinding problem is to allow the player to grind for gold and xp in crafting/hobby type skills. The only MMO I played for longer than a month was Dransik (of which the criminal system was top-tier perfection). I spent many days on the farm leveling my skill to plant more profitable crop.
I really dislike the "different areas for higher level" type feel, separates players too much and seems overly linear.
- "Oh look, this store is selling nothing but +5 magic weapons, the one before it sold nothing but +4 magic weapons." -
Sure, there should be a mountain range that is nothing but dragons, or an old beat up castle full of high level zombies, but why should a level-1 be limited to noob town because they haven't grinded enough to get to the next town?
As a high level character, what is the purpose of headed back to noobville besides showing off your armor, or going to fight a dev monster spawn?
It all comes down to the basic fundamentals of human nature. I'm assuming that the market for this game is humans, of course.
In short, humans:
1. Craft items
2. Have a desire to understand and experience the unknown
3. Fear death
4. Struggle for power/wealth
5. Require sustenance.
It would only make sense for a game that thrives on a large number of players, who interact with each other, would want to try to mimic society as closely as possible.
The days of grinding-based MMOs are coming to a close within the next decade, easily. What's the next step? There will always be single-player games, there will always be co-op games, there will always be multiplayer (massive and not) type games. Look at the differences in single-player games. Now look at the differences in co-op games. Now look at all the ridiculously common factors with every single massively multiplayer game in existence.
They will mimic society one day. I will not be surprised in the least when there is an MMO out that allows you to run for president, or king, of the in-game society.
It would only make sense for a game that thrives on a large number of players, who interact with each other, would want to try to mimic society as closely as possible.
FYI, some of us are really unhappy with our current society and would not to be drawn to games that mimic it. My hope is that game designers will experiment with many different systems and stumble upon ones that work better than our real-life societies do now.
They will mimic society one day. I will not be surprised in the least when there is an MMO out that allows you to run for president, or king, of the in-game society.
There already exists at least one MMORPG that does this (I was a beta tester). Elections were held, and elected officials were given tools to adjust taxes, change the laws of the land, set hunting quotas, buy quests, etc.
There already exists at least one MMORPG that does this (I was a beta tester). Elections were held, and elected officials were given tools to adjust taxes, change the laws of the land, set hunting quotas, buy quests, etc.
This sounds neat. Were the elections the primary focus of the game, or was it well balanced to where the inclusion of elections was only a perk for those who made it their primary goal and had actual social talent?
Unrelated -
"Shouting" your items for sale across the entire continent ingame should cost some serious coinage. No one likes telemarketers, and they would be far more infrequent if forcibly charged some type of expensive "annoying advertisement fee".
This sounds neat. Were the elections the primary focus of the game, or was it well balanced to where the inclusion of elections was only a perk for those who made it their primary goal and had actual social talent?
As I recall, to be eligible to vote in an election, you needed a small number of citizen points, and to be eligible to run for office, you needed a substantially larger number of citizen points. It was certainly possible to ignore the elections entirely, and you could even break the law if you disagreed with it.... But, doing so would cost you citizen points and eventually turn you into an outlaw, which gave people the ability to PvP you and earn citizen points for doing so.
As I recall, to be eligible to vote in an election, you needed a small number of citizen points, and to be eligible to run for office, you needed a substantially larger number of citizen points. It was certainly possible to ignore the elections entirely, and you could even break the law if you disagreed with it.... But, doing so would cost you citizen points and eventually turn you into an outlaw, which gave people the ability to PvP you and earn citizen points for doing so.
Players making the world instead of just living it; I really hope that becomes the main idea of the MMO industry in the following years.
I do not even play Minecraft, but I've seen how successful it has become regardless of production cost.
I can see myself spending many days in The Foundry making cool things to share with the community. It's definitely a nice touch.
Having sandbox elements in a game will definitely add to its longevity, and we all knows what happens in the typical (theme park) MMO when we play all the quests and hit the highest levels. Yes, there's more to gaming life than PvP and raids. Having a dynamic player-run economy along with the foundry-made missions (at least the latter we know will exist) can do this.
Having sandbox elements in a game will definitely add to its longevity, and we all knows what happens in the typical (theme park) MMO when we play all the quests and hit the highest levels. Yes, there's more to gaming life than PvP and raids. Having a dynamic player-run economy along with the foundry-made missions (at least the latter we know will exist) can do this.
100% agree, but the problem truthseeker is that 90% of the people wanna do raids and PVP (arenas,BG)
People dont want to get robed, dont wanna have a chance to lose loot when die, dont want to be ambush in world by other players. Most of people dont want to risk NOTHING.
I know sandbox is not only about the things i say above, was just a few examples but i think u got my point
Unfortenly for me, sandbox games are kind of dead nowdays
100% agree, but the problem truthseeker is that 90% of the people wanna do raids and PVP (arenas,BG)
People dont want to get robed, dont wanna have a chance to lose loot when die, dont want to be ambush in world by other players. Most of people dont want to risk NOTHING.
I know sandbox is not only about the things i say above, was just a few examples but i think u got my point
Unfortenly for me, sandbox games are kind of dead nowdays
Nothing wrong with ADDING area PvP and multi-player delves (beyond 5) for the end content too. Just not have that as the typical only thing!
1. I love dungeon instances, to me it allows much more creativity in questing. DnD is small group dungeon crawling at heart. So I had no problem with how a classic DnD module was like a DDO instance.
However it would be nice to have an open world as well. So how do you do both? I always envisioned you get quests (not x of x) but like those in DDO. Now some maybe in the town you are in, fine walk there do it. Some missions are in the wild or in another city you have to go through the wild to get to.
While in the wild you fight off the baddies with your action based model (Raiderz,C9) but these are not standard mmo mobs in a pasture lumbering around waiting for you to make your move. They patrol and you could fight many at once (like 10-20-30!) instead of pulling 1 or 2 at a time, BORING. We all been there done that and fell asleep at the keyboard wheel.
Now you may need to limit how many can be in these open world instances, which is common for most MMO's. So if you can get something near 200 players in an instance before it creates another, I think that still gives a nice open world/community feel that would be acceptable. The whole deal is finding that magical formula to bring both together.
So you get a mission that is in the wild or another city. You venture out of town into a open world non-corridor land where you could be fighting side by side with literally 200 others or whatever the system could handle.
You are not out there for X of X killing, you are out there to either gather crafting materials or to get to your instance to run with your small group.
You are also not pulling one or two baddies but could be encountering 5-10-20 size mobs who patrol and hunt you, to mow them down with your action model. Think Raiderz or C9 type encounters, that is somewhat the picture I'm getting in how Neverwinters combat model will work.
2. Simplified interface vs DDO. That kills it for a lot of people. If you take the time it's ok, but most that I play with wouldn't put in the effort and wouldn't play it, too much. So sad. Reading what you have planned it seems like you got the memo on this one.
3. Random traps. Yep it's that big. One of the worst things about any mmo is you will burn through the content and then basically the players fly through the dungeons repeatedly, totally destroying the spirit. Putting in deadly random traps (with real consequence) will make you take your time and do it right. No matter how many times you run it, you will never really know. (However the foundry maybe an answer to this, is there a way to blend open world with the foundry dungeons??? Is the foundry only dungeon instances???)
4. Simple to understand crafting. Don't over grind it. Personally I like simple socket crafting, but I doubt the main base would be satisfied.
5. AH across all servers.
DDO to me is very close but also far away, they simply cannot make changes I'd like to see even if they wanted to. The expectations have been set. You only get one shot at that.
Okay, so here's my problem, and I can already tell there are plenty of people who'll groan and flame me off of here. I've stated before, in a far older post, that 3.5 is where I stopped with D&D. I don't bare WotC any ill will, it's a simple matter of diversity and preference on my part. I like choices, 3.5 offered plenty in many expansion books over the years, and most everyone's problem with a new edition is: I just bought all these books, why would I move over?
I have many friends that bought 4th edition and I've asked them how they liked it, most of them had less-than-thrilled responses. Defending their claim proved just as muddled, when I believe it's simply to repress buyer's remorse, as I'm in an demographic that had no problems with 3.5, my views reflect that and not the majority of people that enjoy 4e. I can understand the change, however, with the youth of today having more focus on video games, having a focused market strategy targeting the new generation isn't breaking news. They tested it with Captain Solo-- I mean, Star Wars: Saga Edition, and worked quite well to the heroic feel that Star Wars entails, while providing a balanced selection of classes that weren't inherently over-powered, Jedi included. What struck me as odd, was that, while perusing my friend's 4e manuals, I was dumbstruck on multiple factors.
-Image: Why break something that wasn't broken? Tieflings were perfectly fine the way the were, now they're glorified buffalo-people. Inherently people who play D&D have a positive correlation with self-image problems, it's simple numbers, females especially conscientious over that fact, and you want girls to play your game. I can understand the answer, "well don't play one." Simply put, house rules can say otherwise, but Neverwinter plays off of 4e physique, and one of my favorite races got turned into herd animals. Turn off: one.
-Style: D&D had its flaws, nothing's perfect, 3.5 especially. Basically, Hasbro needed to justify their purchasing of WotC by adding profits not obtained by 3.5 manuals already purchased previous to their acquisition. Tested with SW: Saga, that had its effect and has been subsequently discontinued, 4e was born. Everything about this game is inherently based on 4 people plus, that hasn't truly changed. Except now it demands that participation, while I could run a two man party in 3.5, it seems relatively futile in 4e. Everything is scaled to the average, and anything more or less needs tweaking as usual. Daily spells-like abilities aren't new, but taking to per combat, per round abilities seems over-simplifying and I likes me my options. Which reminds me, multi-classing is a sure fire way to make sure your character dies a particularly meaningless death in 4e I've noticed. Have they fixed that?
I would put more, but I got thoroughly bored with the concept and handed my friend back his set of manuals to focus my interest on something more intrepid and was rewarded in seeing Pathfinder come to fruition. 3.5 worked for Neverwinter Nights 2, 3.75 (Pathfinder) seems just as appropriate. It has all the epic quality without dumbing things down to the point of wondering if characters will all be carbon copies running off the same exact statistics for the power gaming I know will rear its ugly head.
I also expect people to say that I should just not play the game, and that's fair, I'm not trying to bash 4e. I love Saga Edition, so I know it works in some cases. It is far past the time where licensing Pathfinder was a viable option, so I know that's just my wishful thinking. But to salvage this off of 4e, I'd say they need a few things to win those of us over that are just as content playing NWN2 with our ears covered chanting, "na na na, can't hear you, didn't happen."
-Fix the character models, ugly is still ugly and a selectively small group will even consider making a character that resembles potential deli section choice cuts (Horde WoW players pretend I didn't say that).
-I know that p2w concept dictates they create base races, and then make cooler ones for those that pay for them. 4e is now at a point where selection is relatively more extensive then when it first began, but still, that doesn't excuse calling Aasimars Devas and then calling it a day. It needs something to drive people to the banner that isn't cliché, I can play LOTR or WoW and get my variant supply of HEDHOG (Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling, Orc, Gnome. I'm not putting Tiefling in here, they're HAMSTER, oh and I found out apparently gnomes were too, until they finally made them playable... Oh, wait, no, still HAMSTER). The point is to make this game more interesting, different and fun.
-Make their money on classes, now while I would say that 3.5 would be a great way to do this, that's no longer a viable option. So besides the regular classes being free to play, prestige classes have a unique opportunity to offer p2p options without over-stressing pay=win, it's the price of options without requiring them. No one NEEDS to prestige.
-Finally, for the love of all things holy, don't repeat DDO. Even though it was based on 4e Eberron, just go ahead and assume it was a tremendous flop (and it's not hard to do) and go from there. Minus the "DM" descriptions while moving through dungeons, that still is the only thing I enjoyed about that game.
This is purely based on my experience, and is loosely tied to the subject, but still there. I want to play this game, and while they scrapped the p2p scheme which was good considering it may very well follow DDO into obscurity, I need a better reason than "It's totally D&D guys!" to consider this one.
The way i see it, you've done 2 things which, taken together, have created a problem for yourself.
1) You've chosen to emphasize the good aspects of 3.5 over the bad, and the bad aspects of 4e over the good.
2) You've grown dissatisfied with existing 3.5 games (NWN2, DDO) and so have turned your attention towads a 4e-inspired game.
Now, you've suggested that we tell you to simply not play Neverwinter, and that option is certainly available to you. But, as an alternative, you could also choose to try to balance your perspectives of the 3.5 and 4e systems so as to weigh the good and bad points of each equally.
Also... you don't have to buy any 4e books to play Neverwinter, and the 4e multiclassing rules can be quite advantageous depending on how they're used.
Well, maybe I didn't get far enough in the book to delve into the good parts. So as a summation of what my friends can't offer me in specific terms, what's your take on the 4e over 3.5e spread that I'm not seeing?
And what specific classes benefit from multi-classing? Because it seems highly likely that those class combinations will cross over into Neverwinter.
I just know more about 3.5e, but I'm more of a proponent for Pathfinder in this case, if that matters.
Well, maybe I didn't get far enough in the book to delve into the good parts. So as a summation of what my friends can't offer me in specific terms, what's your take on the 4e over 3.5e spread that I'm not seeing?
This has been discussed in detail elsewhere on these forums and the web, but I'll quickly touch on two major points. 3.x commonly drew complaints about some classes being very imbalanced vs. others, and there were various issues with the 3.x multiclassing rules. 4e was designed, in part, to address these issues by providing a common format for power progression and class mixing.
And what specific classes benefit from multi-classing? Because it seems highly likely that those class combinations will cross over into Neverwinter.
I would be surprised if there were any class that couldn't benefit from one or more forms of multiclassing... it's just a matter of deciding on a character concept and finding class features that synergize well with each other. For example, if you're playing a summoner artificer, you might want to splash in a few wizard feats to beef up your summons. However, it should be noted that as of yet we don't know if multiclassing will be allowed in Neverwinter.
Lets not turn this to another 4e vs 3.5e thread. Anyway, the game is 4e inspired and not a copy of pnp 4e. So it wouldn't be fair to assume that it is based on 4e.
Though I hope that unlike DDO(3.5e based), NWO doesn't become a min-max fest. And as in my previous post somewhere, unlike 3.5e I think it is something possible to do with 4e based MMO.
...
Oops! I fell to the same trap of comparing the editions... lol
By now, it's been clear due to the shift in ownership and the change in game from "Co-op" to "MMORPG," the game's release date has been moved to the end of 2012.
What's not clear is if there is anything we the members can do to help you along? Whether it's here or elsewhere, many of us are loyal fans of the D&D game and its mythology, and the community it spawns. If there is something we can do to help you along, let us know.
Now, while I have no control on reply restrictions, I am asking any forum people posting to keep it civil (please no trolling/flaming/anti game/company posting here. If you want to do that, you can make your own thread and see if you can get replies on that.) On that note, to encourge dialouge, please don't rip on other companies, games or people here also. (The last thing I want is this to become a locked thread when this had nothing to do with that. Again, if you have to do that, you can make a thread for that.)
While I understand if this goes to some other tangent and if that mentions negative things, if may, but keep it civil if you must go down that path and please try to keep on this topic's point of us helping out.
But any ideas and suggestions on community support from other members are indeed welcome, as are of course dev feedback replies to this and other responses ending up here.
Currently the game is undergoing a lot of iteration and tweaking, so the design is still pretty malleable. What would be most helpful is hearing from you guys about what would make for a good D&D MMO experience.
Obviously that's a very subjective question, but one of the most difficult things for developers to do when making a new game based on a well established IP is finding the true essence of what makes that IP so appealing. How can we make a video game that captures the best aspects of D&D without just being a carbon copy of it in digital form?
For me, D&D is mostly about the DM/player dynamic... It's like being told a story by a talented storyteller that you're actively taking part in. No video game has been able to quite capture that feeling IMO, but for me that's what draws me to D&D the most.
But how is that best translated into a modern MMO? That's the kind of debate we would like to see in the community
lharlequinl, this thread is discussing how we can help the Developers in feedback for the Neverwinter MMO game. This is not the location to discuss the books. That location is the Art and Fiction section. Long story short, the rules are going to be based off of 4e whether literal or inspired, not the 3.x editions. I appreciate any feedback that is asked or confirmed about the game, not the tabletop concerns when applicable. Of course, anything like MMO appearance, character slots, multiple-person missions, etc is always appreciated asking about for the future of this MMO. Thank you.
Due to Gillrnm's suggestion in another thread, and seeing these questions come up here and elsewhere, I have made a Neverwinter Newcomer's FAQ section. Feel free to continue discussing what makes the Neverwinter Game work for the MMO transition here. That is all.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2012
So, with the forum reboot, should this thread continue, or go the way of many others?
I'm not sure if our feedback is being taken any more (and used) or if we're past that "new development" point and ready to just continue with what has been taken already and work on what was collected.
So Devs, do you still need
hearing from you guys about what would make for a good D&D MMO experience?
Traps are a very important flavor in dungeons and dragons. It is fair to say that the importance on traps is at least as important as the monsters.. and i know what i can do with dialogue in the foundry, but illusion spells should be integrated somehow. like being able to cast an illusion on another toon, or entering a trap that casts an illusion on all party members.. that is dnd
noobguru2121Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited February 2013
i just found out about this game and it looks amazing and i would love to play and help with this would be greatly appreciated i would love to give my opinion on the game and what the company could do to make it better.
Comments
I know I know, DO NOT FEED THE TROLL.....I read the sign at the zoo, I'll listen. jeeeeez.
I've noticed crafting has been brought up. Is there anything we can do for the developers to help discuss about crafting or is it a "finished" system?
The same question for the upcoming 2013 PvP system: is it "finished" or can player feedback shape it more?
Anyway to all people that keep crying about making WoW game for me it's same as saying that all houses are same because they have kitchen, bathroom, bedroom and so on.
Can anyone even explain what wow game type means ?
For me it's a just childlish cry of a kind looking what's popular and going against it.
It's a rebellion of adolescence when you belive that you found a truth that other people are blind to notice but in reality it's only your lack of critical thinking and creating for yourself "false dilemma".
We'll have moving combat, powers over skills, and a tendency to group for social play without the plan of endgame PvP only (and the game getting to the end is higher priority than being at the end which right there is anti-WoW) and more delving with 5-people over huge groups of 16 at mission endings. Love it or hate it, it's not cloning like WoW for those reasons alone.
Oh yeah, the Foundry. Player content absolutely not like WoW.
But if people want to talk why it is, I'm open, or the other changes of topic they want or I thought of are fine.
I found a great sense of irony in that statement.
Aren't all games childish? Don't the adults try to find their lost childhood days and have fun in games? What is game actually, a digital interaction of social options... [*sigh* I miss my childhood days]
Better not put your opinions in a discussion or it will open a portal to the quagmire of opinions.
----
Although I do share frustration when people call neverwinter WoW-like. I also find it an immature comparison. Its like they are not knowledgeable enough to even put down the game. If I had to put it down, I would say it is DDO-clone (doesn't matter as combat, imo, seems better than DDO); or at least some punch line like common-MMOs plaguing the market - clone.
I usually facepalm and collect globules when I come across such a comment. Still, we can't deny that WoW was actually a very successful MMO which brought this MMO-boom. Suddenly everyone was into MMO, so they must have done something right.
EDIT: oops! Didnt realise it was the same thread in which I died... Well, can't delete the post, but please ignore it (unless u r a clr and can speak with dead)
No... there are games that are very clearly and very explicitly targeted at adult demographics. Also, there are games to change the world.
Now to start thinking about important stuf I had idea about creating game inside game. I never playd real pnp game but i think it's somthing that people could like.
Let say that you could have pnp game inside the NWO world. Idea is simple you create normal party of 5 people in nwo and then you guys go to tawern. All of you sit down to one table where you have pnp game with figures of monsters etc.
One of the party members becomes dungeon master and other are normal players. It would be nice to have in game voice communicator with chat.
So it same as any classic pnp game but you can play at home.
There should be at least 3 maps with mobs you can find in nwo game. Cryptic could make money on selling new maps/monster etc.
I'm from Poland and in my country D&D pnp games where not so popular so maybe that's why i do not know much about dnd games, but Neverwinter pc game was something that many of my friends playd and remember so i think for people like me who never had exp with pnp Dnd a inside game can be a easy introduction to classic dnd.
I think you misunderstood and took it out of context, its just one opinion from a quagmire of opinions which must not be touched lest it opens a pandora box of similar questions.
I really dislike the "different areas for higher level" type feel, separates players too much and seems overly linear.
- "Oh look, this store is selling nothing but +5 magic weapons, the one before it sold nothing but +4 magic weapons." -
Sure, there should be a mountain range that is nothing but dragons, or an old beat up castle full of high level zombies, but why should a level-1 be limited to noob town because they haven't grinded enough to get to the next town?
As a high level character, what is the purpose of headed back to noobville besides showing off your armor, or going to fight a dev monster spawn?
It all comes down to the basic fundamentals of human nature. I'm assuming that the market for this game is humans, of course.
In short, humans:
1. Craft items
2. Have a desire to understand and experience the unknown
3. Fear death
4. Struggle for power/wealth
5. Require sustenance.
It would only make sense for a game that thrives on a large number of players, who interact with each other, would want to try to mimic society as closely as possible.
The days of grinding-based MMOs are coming to a close within the next decade, easily. What's the next step? There will always be single-player games, there will always be co-op games, there will always be multiplayer (massive and not) type games. Look at the differences in single-player games. Now look at the differences in co-op games. Now look at all the ridiculously common factors with every single massively multiplayer game in existence.
They will mimic society one day. I will not be surprised in the least when there is an MMO out that allows you to run for president, or king, of the in-game society.
FYI, some of us are really unhappy with our current society and would not to be drawn to games that mimic it. My hope is that game designers will experiment with many different systems and stumble upon ones that work better than our real-life societies do now.
There already exists at least one MMORPG that does this (I was a beta tester). Elections were held, and elected officials were given tools to adjust taxes, change the laws of the land, set hunting quotas, buy quests, etc.
I mean more the idea of a society and how it works together to thrive, not the pieces about taxes and healthcare.
Like how a wagon wheel is made by the collaborative efforts of many people with different skills.
This sounds neat. Were the elections the primary focus of the game, or was it well balanced to where the inclusion of elections was only a perk for those who made it their primary goal and had actual social talent?
Unrelated -
"Shouting" your items for sale across the entire continent ingame should cost some serious coinage. No one likes telemarketers, and they would be far more infrequent if forcibly charged some type of expensive "annoying advertisement fee".
As I recall, to be eligible to vote in an election, you needed a small number of citizen points, and to be eligible to run for office, you needed a substantially larger number of citizen points. It was certainly possible to ignore the elections entirely, and you could even break the law if you disagreed with it.... But, doing so would cost you citizen points and eventually turn you into an outlaw, which gave people the ability to PvP you and earn citizen points for doing so.
Players making the world instead of just living it; I really hope that becomes the main idea of the MMO industry in the following years.
I do not even play Minecraft, but I've seen how successful it has become regardless of production cost.
I can see myself spending many days in The Foundry making cool things to share with the community. It's definitely a nice touch.
100% agree, but the problem truthseeker is that 90% of the people wanna do raids and PVP (arenas,BG)
People dont want to get robed, dont wanna have a chance to lose loot when die, dont want to be ambush in world by other players. Most of people dont want to risk NOTHING.
I know sandbox is not only about the things i say above, was just a few examples but i think u got my point
Unfortenly for me, sandbox games are kind of dead nowdays
Nothing wrong with ADDING area PvP and multi-player delves (beyond 5) for the end content too. Just not have that as the typical only thing!
I loved DDO but it had a few flaws.
1. I love dungeon instances, to me it allows much more creativity in questing. DnD is small group dungeon crawling at heart. So I had no problem with how a classic DnD module was like a DDO instance.
However it would be nice to have an open world as well. So how do you do both? I always envisioned you get quests (not x of x) but like those in DDO. Now some maybe in the town you are in, fine walk there do it. Some missions are in the wild or in another city you have to go through the wild to get to.
While in the wild you fight off the baddies with your action based model (Raiderz,C9) but these are not standard mmo mobs in a pasture lumbering around waiting for you to make your move. They patrol and you could fight many at once (like 10-20-30!) instead of pulling 1 or 2 at a time, BORING. We all been there done that and fell asleep at the keyboard wheel.
Now you may need to limit how many can be in these open world instances, which is common for most MMO's. So if you can get something near 200 players in an instance before it creates another, I think that still gives a nice open world/community feel that would be acceptable. The whole deal is finding that magical formula to bring both together.
So you get a mission that is in the wild or another city. You venture out of town into a open world non-corridor land where you could be fighting side by side with literally 200 others or whatever the system could handle.
You are not out there for X of X killing, you are out there to either gather crafting materials or to get to your instance to run with your small group.
You are also not pulling one or two baddies but could be encountering 5-10-20 size mobs who patrol and hunt you, to mow them down with your action model. Think Raiderz or C9 type encounters, that is somewhat the picture I'm getting in how Neverwinters combat model will work.
2. Simplified interface vs DDO. That kills it for a lot of people. If you take the time it's ok, but most that I play with wouldn't put in the effort and wouldn't play it, too much. So sad. Reading what you have planned it seems like you got the memo on this one.
3. Random traps. Yep it's that big. One of the worst things about any mmo is you will burn through the content and then basically the players fly through the dungeons repeatedly, totally destroying the spirit. Putting in deadly random traps (with real consequence) will make you take your time and do it right. No matter how many times you run it, you will never really know. (However the foundry maybe an answer to this, is there a way to blend open world with the foundry dungeons??? Is the foundry only dungeon instances???)
4. Simple to understand crafting. Don't over grind it. Personally I like simple socket crafting, but I doubt the main base would be satisfied.
5. AH across all servers.
DDO to me is very close but also far away, they simply cannot make changes I'd like to see even if they wanted to. The expectations have been set. You only get one shot at that.
I have many friends that bought 4th edition and I've asked them how they liked it, most of them had less-than-thrilled responses. Defending their claim proved just as muddled, when I believe it's simply to repress buyer's remorse, as I'm in an demographic that had no problems with 3.5, my views reflect that and not the majority of people that enjoy 4e. I can understand the change, however, with the youth of today having more focus on video games, having a focused market strategy targeting the new generation isn't breaking news. They tested it with Captain Solo-- I mean, Star Wars: Saga Edition, and worked quite well to the heroic feel that Star Wars entails, while providing a balanced selection of classes that weren't inherently over-powered, Jedi included. What struck me as odd, was that, while perusing my friend's 4e manuals, I was dumbstruck on multiple factors.
-Image: Why break something that wasn't broken? Tieflings were perfectly fine the way the were, now they're glorified buffalo-people. Inherently people who play D&D have a positive correlation with self-image problems, it's simple numbers, females especially conscientious over that fact, and you want girls to play your game. I can understand the answer, "well don't play one." Simply put, house rules can say otherwise, but Neverwinter plays off of 4e physique, and one of my favorite races got turned into herd animals. Turn off: one.
-Style: D&D had its flaws, nothing's perfect, 3.5 especially. Basically, Hasbro needed to justify their purchasing of WotC by adding profits not obtained by 3.5 manuals already purchased previous to their acquisition. Tested with SW: Saga, that had its effect and has been subsequently discontinued, 4e was born. Everything about this game is inherently based on 4 people plus, that hasn't truly changed. Except now it demands that participation, while I could run a two man party in 3.5, it seems relatively futile in 4e. Everything is scaled to the average, and anything more or less needs tweaking as usual. Daily spells-like abilities aren't new, but taking to per combat, per round abilities seems over-simplifying and I likes me my options. Which reminds me, multi-classing is a sure fire way to make sure your character dies a particularly meaningless death in 4e I've noticed. Have they fixed that?
I would put more, but I got thoroughly bored with the concept and handed my friend back his set of manuals to focus my interest on something more intrepid and was rewarded in seeing Pathfinder come to fruition. 3.5 worked for Neverwinter Nights 2, 3.75 (Pathfinder) seems just as appropriate. It has all the epic quality without dumbing things down to the point of wondering if characters will all be carbon copies running off the same exact statistics for the power gaming I know will rear its ugly head.
I also expect people to say that I should just not play the game, and that's fair, I'm not trying to bash 4e. I love Saga Edition, so I know it works in some cases. It is far past the time where licensing Pathfinder was a viable option, so I know that's just my wishful thinking. But to salvage this off of 4e, I'd say they need a few things to win those of us over that are just as content playing NWN2 with our ears covered chanting, "na na na, can't hear you, didn't happen."
-Fix the character models, ugly is still ugly and a selectively small group will even consider making a character that resembles potential deli section choice cuts (Horde WoW players pretend I didn't say that).
-I know that p2w concept dictates they create base races, and then make cooler ones for those that pay for them. 4e is now at a point where selection is relatively more extensive then when it first began, but still, that doesn't excuse calling Aasimars Devas and then calling it a day. It needs something to drive people to the banner that isn't cliché, I can play LOTR or WoW and get my variant supply of HEDHOG (Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling, Orc, Gnome. I'm not putting Tiefling in here, they're HAMSTER, oh and I found out apparently gnomes were too, until they finally made them playable... Oh, wait, no, still HAMSTER). The point is to make this game more interesting, different and fun.
-Make their money on classes, now while I would say that 3.5 would be a great way to do this, that's no longer a viable option. So besides the regular classes being free to play, prestige classes have a unique opportunity to offer p2p options without over-stressing pay=win, it's the price of options without requiring them. No one NEEDS to prestige.
-Finally, for the love of all things holy, don't repeat DDO. Even though it was based on 4e Eberron, just go ahead and assume it was a tremendous flop (and it's not hard to do) and go from there. Minus the "DM" descriptions while moving through dungeons, that still is the only thing I enjoyed about that game.
This is purely based on my experience, and is loosely tied to the subject, but still there. I want to play this game, and while they scrapped the p2p scheme which was good considering it may very well follow DDO into obscurity, I need a better reason than "It's totally D&D guys!" to consider this one.
The way i see it, you've done 2 things which, taken together, have created a problem for yourself.
1) You've chosen to emphasize the good aspects of 3.5 over the bad, and the bad aspects of 4e over the good.
2) You've grown dissatisfied with existing 3.5 games (NWN2, DDO) and so have turned your attention towads a 4e-inspired game.
Now, you've suggested that we tell you to simply not play Neverwinter, and that option is certainly available to you. But, as an alternative, you could also choose to try to balance your perspectives of the 3.5 and 4e systems so as to weigh the good and bad points of each equally.
Also... you don't have to buy any 4e books to play Neverwinter, and the 4e multiclassing rules can be quite advantageous depending on how they're used.
And what specific classes benefit from multi-classing? Because it seems highly likely that those class combinations will cross over into Neverwinter.
I just know more about 3.5e, but I'm more of a proponent for Pathfinder in this case, if that matters.
This has been discussed in detail elsewhere on these forums and the web, but I'll quickly touch on two major points. 3.x commonly drew complaints about some classes being very imbalanced vs. others, and there were various issues with the 3.x multiclassing rules. 4e was designed, in part, to address these issues by providing a common format for power progression and class mixing.
I would be surprised if there were any class that couldn't benefit from one or more forms of multiclassing... it's just a matter of deciding on a character concept and finding class features that synergize well with each other. For example, if you're playing a summoner artificer, you might want to splash in a few wizard feats to beef up your summons. However, it should be noted that as of yet we don't know if multiclassing will be allowed in Neverwinter.
Though I hope that unlike DDO(3.5e based), NWO doesn't become a min-max fest. And as in my previous post somewhere, unlike 3.5e I think it is something possible to do with 4e based MMO.
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Oops! I fell to the same trap of comparing the editions... lol
lharlequinl, this thread is discussing how we can help the Developers in feedback for the Neverwinter MMO game. This is not the location to discuss the books. That location is the Art and Fiction section. Long story short, the rules are going to be based off of 4e whether literal or inspired, not the 3.x editions. I appreciate any feedback that is asked or confirmed about the game, not the tabletop concerns when applicable. Of course, anything like MMO appearance, character slots, multiple-person missions, etc is always appreciated asking about for the future of this MMO. Thank you.
I'm not sure if our feedback is being taken any more (and used) or if we're past that "new development" point and ready to just continue with what has been taken already and work on what was collected.
So Devs, do you still need
Or are we on the next step?
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