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Air archon nerf

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  • destrion#3156 destrion Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    Xuna is one of the main reasons peeps buy that one refinement pack, nerfing her would just drive down sales and nerfing CiW (a comp that had to be bought with zen) would just set a bad president and discourage players from buying dps companions from the zen store on the long run.

    For game balance purposes i kinda see what they're getting at but i don't see how it could possibly be a smart business move.
    I don't even know if they're tying to shoot at anything but their own foot with this move
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,456 Arc User

    Xuna is one of the main reasons peeps buy that one refinement pack, nerfing her would just drive down sales and nerfing CiW (a comp that had to be bought with zen) would just set a bad president and discourage players from buying dps companions from the zen store on the long run.

    For game balance purposes i kinda see what they're getting at but i don't see how it could possibly be a smart business move.
    I don't even know if they're tying to shoot at anything but their own foot with this move

    For the long run, it does not matter. People will still buy companion for whatever reason they have. They will not remember/know all the old companion. There were many different companions in the past went through the same route.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,492 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1262909/air-archon-companion-adjustments

    It seems they will be pulling down all the currently leading companions. The only one mentioned that is not in top 3 is the Abyssal Chicken, that is sort of useless already.

    This also calls into question the companion damage meta. Many of us invested AD into indomitable runestones and Warlords Inspiration insignias. If companions are nerfed enough, is it better to go back to normal runestones? This could change the meta, and that will be all over expensive.

    Depending on the amount of the coming nerfs, Pseudodragon and Honey Badger will be the new top companions for single target damage. But of course, they could be hit too.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    I get what @nitocris83 is saying about drastic imbalances across companions because they do range between the Displacer Beast at one end and the Cold Iron Warrior at the other which deals something like twenty times the single dps - with most companions averaging at about half.

    But several other things should be considered at the same time:

    * the companions getting nerfed are not only very popular, they are also expensive to obtain - meaning that adjusting them will hit a very high percentage of the player base

    * the mean average of companion damage is pulled down by a large number of them seriously underperforming, ruling them out as viable options - why not address this too? #BuffTheDuff!

    * as you've stated that there are more downward adjustments to come, I think it's about time the devs seriously consider some form of companion token buy-back where companions can be downgraded and the tokens returned as an insurance policy against future negative adjustments

    * when adjusting ANY companion please reassess it's overall viability relative to other companions! Don't just reduce it's effectiveness without seeing where it's overall dps output lands. Often it's other attacks need increasing to partially rebalance the change. You guys SHOULD have a list of all companions and their relative output for comparison purposes - if you don't, you can use the one supplied by Aragon & Pistaaa


    Post edited by armadeonx on
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  • agoraotro#4630 agoraotro Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    > @armadeonx said:
    > I get what @nitocris83 is saying about drastic imbalances across companions because they do range between the Displacer Beast at one end and the Cold Iron Warrior at the other which deals something like twenty times the single dps with most companions averaging at about half.
    >
    > But several other things should be considered at the same time:
    >
    > * the companions getting nerfed are not only very popular, they are also expensive to obtain - meaning that adjusting them will hit a very high percentage of the player base
    > * the mean average of companion damage is pulled down by a large number of them seriously underperforming, ruling them out as viable options - why not address this too? #BuffTheDuff!
    > * as you've stated that there are more downward adjustments to come, I think it's about time the devs seriously consider some form of companion token buy-back where companions can be downgraded and the tokens returned as an insurance policy against future negative adjustments

    Following the logic of this latest Air Archon nerf, I guess I understand their point of view.

    They will nerf those companions’ AOE powers to not deal as much damage in single target. Xuna, Black Ice Prospector and Cold Iron Warrior main powers are AOE but they still deal a lot of damage against a single target (not sure why they even mention Abyssal Chicken).

    If that’s the reason behind the nerf, at they very least keep the companion viable in AOE. My Air Archon is now a joke in every possible scenario. But, well, not all can be perfect and maybe this will be fine tuned eventually. I appreciate a response on this matter from the devs.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,492 Arc User
    I see one common thing between Xuna, Cold Iron Warrior and Black Ice Prospector: They got AE attacks.

    Let us guess all those AE attacks are bugged like Air Archon, they do ST damage in an AE attack?

    I am not sure Cryptic is assessing overall companion strength if they just look at it power by power.

    Anyways, it seems the Pseudodragon is purely single target, so that one should not be hit by a sweeping adjustment to overpowered AE attacks.

  • drazilgnik#5167 drazilgnik Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    I have been invested in this game for a year now and wow I am so tired of the devs saying players are complaining about having op items in the game. This is not what most people would even consider a role playing game in the sense that there is no exp from battles between the game enemies and there is no reward verses effort it all feels like gambling to me with scratch off cards. Am I the idiot here ? In video games don't players enjoy feeling god like ? Do players like getting the magic item in chest that are useful and powerful? I have been at this game a year and I want to feel like a B.A. I know many who have been playing from the start of this game. I never hear people saying you know what would be great I wish my companion didn't kick so much butt in this game. Who are they listening to ? Remember everyone we outnumber the game company they ultimately work for us. This is garbage. Listen to your players stop balancing the game honestly no one will stop playing for winning or having advantage through hard and many hours of grinding and saving both a.d. and zen to get that piece of gear or that amazing companion. ps good work on all the censorship in the forums and turning off comments. I am sure either through gaslighting via confederates of the company or just adjusting of this post that it will have no avail why do I even bother?
  • rockster#6227 rockster Member Posts: 1,860 Arc User
    edited September 2021

    I see one common thing between Xuna, Cold Iron Warrior and Black Ice Prospector: They got AE attacks.

    Let us guess all those AE attacks are bugged like Air Archon, they do ST damage in an AE attack?

    I am not sure Cryptic is assessing overall companion strength if they just look at it power by power.

    Anyways, it seems the Pseudodragon is purely single target, so that one should not be hit by a sweeping adjustment to overpowered AE attacks.

    Black Death Scorpion does decent damage from when I tested it and has no AOE so it may also be a good option and also may be left alone if AOE is the factor in them continuing to nerf. It has a very annoying sound when idle though.
    Apparently pointing-out the bleeding obvious is a 'personal attack'.
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User

    I can understand balancing classes, you lock into a class and it has to be comparative to the others, but when it comes to 'balancing' companions I don't really think it's really an appropriate approach or goal. Because it always means something is nerfed, all it does it force everyone to go and get the new one which performs the best (and it's easy to find out which one it is from the plethora of videos and reports from players) which ultimately means players waste time, effort and currency and end-up feeling resentful towards the game at having wasted their energy. I have written so many times now that in a thing like a game which is entertainment, the last thing a company wants is to have this happen, players come to relax and be happy and you do not want to make them feel horrible at any stage. It just pushes people away from the game and defeats the very purpose people play it which is to feel good. You're also taking away one of the main goals players have which is to continuously work to become more powerful. It's counterproductive.

    @nitocris83 it has been said in posts above that things can also be buffed not nerfed and I sincerely hope that the team considers this issue and tries to work it into the approach because nerfing alone is not balancing, but a combination of nerfing and buffing is I guess more true balancing. Instead of nerfing things every single effing time, they should be looking at increasing some powers to fix issues instead of just reducing everything under the sun. It appears that the team doesn't want everyone running around with the same companion just because it's BiS and wants a variety of companions used by players, but two things here, one is that players don't seem to mind seeing all the same companion in a group if it performs as they want it to and all they care about is damage, after a while they don't see the companions much anyway and only focus on the enemies, and in the end no matter how much you nerf this or that, players will just keep doing the same thing and getting the BiS companion and you will always end-up with the same result anyway where they all have the best companion in a group even if it only does a minuscule amount more damage than the next next best one. This is what most serious competitive players do in Neverwinter. So you cannot stop it happening no matter how much you try to 'balance' companions, but in the end, you still create resentment when the best one is brought down and people no longer want it. And two, this appears to me to be a continuation of them trying to micromanage every little thing to fit a vision they have in their heads on how the game should look and how it should be played. I suggest that they stop trying to force players into playing exactly as they want them to from some vision they came up with in a meeting somewhere on some random day, and listen more to what players want and how they play and have done since the game started.

    I want to be able to use whatever companion I want to use without being excluded by the "elite". If this means nerfing Xuna to the ground, so be it.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 654 Arc User
    Not sure what is a good option anymore. After the air archon nerf, i contemplated upgrading a xuna that I've had for a while in bank. Glad I waited, could have been even worse, and it happened to a barbarian i run with. He obtained a Xuna after the archon nerf. He got less than 24 hours before hearing, guess what, that's getting it too. I would say maybe the newly released comps of the hall, for the 3% bonuses, but options limited, black death scorpion sounds good...for now. Honestly, this feels like the pullback from bondings being too strong, and indomitables are next.
  • thany#4351 thany Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    From news & announcements... - "There are plans to make adjustments to the following companions in a future patch: Xuna, Abyssal Chicken, Black Ice Prospector, and Cold Iron Warrior. " Due to nerf history in this game i don't expect boost. Time to go into "maintenance mode" without wasting any money 'till they decide what they want from this game .
  • rockster#6227 rockster Member Posts: 1,860 Arc User
    And no-one is stopping you from using any companion you want to. You have to understand something though. We are roleplaying in a very different time and place to 21st century planet earth. We had kings and queens and lords and nobility and peasants and serfs and there were people who had more than others, better magic, more money, there was a discrepancy between people based on what they were born into, who they knew, how they climbed the social ladder and not everyone was automatically equal. You can still work your way up the ladder if you try hard enough though. It is not a communist society where everyone is exactly the same forever no matter how long they have played or how much they have invested into the game. That would be a completely other game and location. There will always be stronger items and people than others, to have everyone equal to everyone else where there is also no progression or achievement just goes against the time and environment we are immersed in.
    Apparently pointing-out the bleeding obvious is a 'personal attack'.
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  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User
    > @rockster#6227 said:
    > And no-one is stopping you from using any companion you want to. You have to understand something though. We are roleplaying in a very different time and place to 21st century planet earth. We had kings and queens and lords and nobility and peasants and serfs and there were people who had more than others, better magic, more money, there was a discrepancy between people based on what they were born into, who they knew, how they climbed the social ladder and not everyone was automatically equal. You can still work your way up the ladder if you try hard enough though. It is not a communist society where everyone is exactly the same forever no matter how long they have played or how much they have invested into the game. That would be a completely other game and location. There will always be stronger items and people than others, to have everyone equal to everyone else where there is also no progression or achievement just goes against the time and environment we are immersed in.

    This is a discussion about companions, not items and people. What we are seeing in the current version of the game, is the “communist society” that you describe. This is a direct result of a few companions performing far better than others due to bugs. Balancing the companions will make it a lot easier to tell the “kings and queens” from the “peasants” as there will be no bugs letting the peasants wear fake crowns.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    The problem is not the nerf, or adjust or call you what you want, the problem is the lack of communication, and also the time that goes until they change it.

    Is the same with the rings they fixed, people is complaining because they dont tell anything and you dont know if they will fix it now, or in 1 week or 1 year. And for new players is not so obvious, they look for what is good now and buy it (lots of times investing money)

    I remember the lostmauth set being overpowered, and some people didnt want to buy and refine it because it was obvious that would be nerfed.... 2 years later they adjusted it, and even with lots of forum posts, no response from devs. That is the real problem.

    So, they need to address things much faster, or communicate players they are looking into it. And would be better if this kind of things are sent to the in-game mail, because not everyone have to be in the forums.
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  • fritz#8093 fritz Member Posts: 439 Arc User



    This also calls into question the companion damage meta. Many of us invested AD into indomitable runestones and Warlords Inspiration insignias. If companions are nerfed enough, is it better to go back to normal runestones? This could change the meta, and that will be all over expensive.

    Depends. "Bis" is already at caps. So what's the point getting more stats from Runestones? I guess some builds might be able to re-balance and get that few extra %, but generally I think most will stay Indomitable and just swallow the nerf.

    What they should do though is give players an upgrade token pack so that you can upgrade the next best companion whenever this is set and done.
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  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User
    @hitchslapped

    I dont understand what you mean. Players using companions that are obviously overperforming = players that differ from players that are "unwilling to put in work" ?
    Elite Whaleboy
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User

    wilbur626 said:

    > @rockster#6227 said:
    > And no-one is stopping you from using any companion you want to. You have to understand something though. We are roleplaying in a very different time and place to 21st century planet earth. We had kings and queens and lords and nobility and peasants and serfs and there were people who had more than others, better magic, more money, there was a discrepancy between people based on what they were born into, who they knew, how they climbed the social ladder and not everyone was automatically equal. You can still work your way up the ladder if you try hard enough though. It is not a communist society where everyone is exactly the same forever no matter how long they have played or how much they have invested into the game. That would be a completely other game and location. There will always be stronger items and people than others, to have everyone equal to everyone else where there is also no progression or achievement just goes against the time and environment we are immersed in.

    This is a discussion about companions, not items and people. What we are seeing in the current version of the game, is the “communist society” that you describe. This is a direct result of a few companions performing far better than others due to bugs. Balancing the companions will make it a lot easier to tell the “kings and queens” from the “peasants” as there will be no bugs letting the peasants wear fake crowns.

    If you don't care what Neverwinter represents and where and when it is set and don't give a stuff for those people who totally immerse themselves in being there, there is nothing more I can say on this.
    To me Neverwinter represents a game. In my world, a game should have as few bugs/gamebreaking issues as possible. Fixing the companions would take Neverwinter one step closer to a bug free game. You can imagine and roleplay all you want, but every bug squashed is good in my book.
    Elite Whaleboy
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  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User
    @hitchslapped

    "people have to put in work to get their build up to acceptable levels for different content, and they have to put in work to get their skills at playing their toon up to acceptable levels for different content."

    This is exactly what I would like to see getting more attention. Having a companion that has powers with unintentional damage buffs does not equal hard work and/or a high level of skill. It equals being carried by a broken companion in most cases.

    "'the entire history of the game has had some companions that were clearly better than others"

    This should change ASAP. It is silly that we have all these companions with different effects/debuffs/buffs, when the DPS contribution from CIW or Xuna by far outperform all others.

    "just because you can't accept some companion options being better than others."

    There are no options. There is one that is best. I would greatly prefer build variations over the current (in my opinion idiotic) "meta" where only 1 set of gear, 1 race, 1 companion is best in slot.

    "my point, that you seem to have taken issue with, is that you seem to want to be able to just slap any old build together regardless of what you choose, and be considered 'good enough' for any content"

    I have a very hard time understanding what you are referring to here, but slapping together builds is something I really enjoy. Most of the builds I slap together tend to be a bit over the top for most of the playerbase when it comes to min/maxing and AD cost tho.
    Elite Whaleboy
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  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 395 Arc User
    How much more can the chicken be nerfed. It’s underperforming compared to the rest.

    Why not fix the classes before nerfing companions.

    Having a Xuna help my Tank do content is nice. I do HAMSTER poor damage and it takes forever to do quests.
    I give up because I have no clue to the intent of the equal factor.
    Not everyone is equal.
    My wizard isn’t equal to a TR.

    People worked hard to get the companions then harder to level them. You keep punishing us for playing by your rules.
    Companions are NOT what out of balance in this game.

    This won’t bring “choice and variety “

    In a goal/ grind game those companions were something to strive for to yes make it easier.
    Why is that a sin?
    As for a companion carrying me.
    So what, fix my class so I don’t need a companion.
    What’s the point of playing if everything we work for gets squashed.

    Now content will be harder to do, content that so many have already done with working companions. Now we have to do it with lame ones.
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User
    @hitchslapped

    "one companion that's objectively better than others for a given role or a given piece of content."

    This would be a wast improvement to the current state of the game, where there is a maximum of 2 correct choices (out of 150+ companions) for any content.
    Elite Whaleboy
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