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Air archon nerf

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  • empalasempalas Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 802 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    I half expect them to just nerf all dps companions to irrelevancy like they did with healing companions... I wonder if @mimicking is still looking into the issue with "healing" companions... LOL...and yes I know he is long gone
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    Any method that causes grief to players that have spent a lot on a resource is going to make people unhappy - even when it is for the greater good.

    If Cryptic are going to address the serious imbalances between companions they need to bear this in mind and think of some way to compensate those that would lose any significant investment.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
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    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 709 Arc User
    edited September 2021


    So, they need to address things much faster, or communicate players they are looking into it. And would be better if this kind of things are sent to the in-game mail, because not everyone have to be in the forums.

    They are always only communicating AFTER HAMSTER hit the fan.
    wilbur626 said:

    @hitchslapped

    I dont understand what you mean. Players using companions that are obviously overperforming = players that differ from players that are "unwilling to put in work" ?

    In which game can you do basically anything without "getting good" for endgame? Is that an exciting game that keeps players to come back to play it?
    Are you just angry that in this specific game, companions matter more than in others? It is just another very important aspect of building a character. In another game its upgrading the HAMSTER out of the same weapon - in another its upgrading the HAMSTER out of gems you slot.
    If they finally got their peanuts together and could offer a not-changing baseline of "this is good, this is not" everybody would just adjust and probably never want to have a displacer beast.
    The problem I have with changes like this is not that I would love to exercise some sort of "being a AD hoard god" over new players. I have a problem with changes like this because they always touch stuff that you HAVE and makes it bad so you go and BUY new HAMSTER that you never wanted to have in the past. Because SOMEHOW nobody upgraded the tiger they gave away for free to be a good companion. I WONDER WHY. That would have been an easy fix to "new players cannot reach endgame boho".

    I do not understand why we would want all companions (all weapons, all items, whatever) to be equal. All this streamlining HAMSTER that "makes an even playground" is literally the most boring stuff ever. Do you really have fun in a game where it doesnt matter HAMSTER what you upgrade or get because everything basically has the same base dmg or the same base buff/debuff...
    - bye bye -
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User


    So, they need to address things much faster, or communicate players they are looking into it. And would be better if this kind of things are sent to the in-game mail, because not everyone have to be in the forums.

    They are always only communicating AFTER HAMSTER hit the fan.
    wilbur626 said:

    @hitchslapped

    I dont understand what you mean. Players using companions that are obviously overperforming = players that differ from players that are "unwilling to put in work" ?

    In which game can you do basically anything without "getting good" for endgame? Is that an exciting game that keeps players to come back to play it?
    Are you just angry that in this specific game, companions matter more than in others? It is just another very important aspect of building a character. In another game its upgrading the HAMSTER out of the same weapon - in another its upgrading the HAMSTER out of gems you slot.
    If they finally got their peanuts together and could offer a not-changing baseline of "this is good, this is not" everybody would just adjust and probably never want to have a displacer beast.
    The problem I have with changes like this is not that I would love to exercise some sort of "being a AD hoard god" over new players. I have a problem with changes like this because they always touch stuff that you HAVE and makes it bad so you go and BUY new HAMSTER that you never wanted to have in the past. Because SOMEHOW nobody upgraded the tiger they gave away for free to be a good companion. I WONDER WHY. That would have been an easy fix to "new players cannot reach endgame boho".

    I do not understand why we would want all companions (all weapons, all items, whatever) to be equal. All this streamlining HAMSTER that "makes an even playground" is literally the most boring stuff ever. Do you really have fun in a game where it doesnt matter HAMSTER what you upgrade or get because everything basically has the same base dmg or the same base buff/debuff...
    Its very hard to follow your reasoning, but if "getting good" is pushing the companion upgrade button four times in a row, the two of us is playing a very different game. If the fix to the Air Archon has you raging like this, you are in for a rough ride as they will continue balancing for quite some time.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    > @wilbur626 said:
    > @silente07#2597
    >
    > Doing "HAMSTER poor damage" damage is a result of a choice you made when building your tank. Having to rely on a companion to do quests should tell you that there is something fundamentally wrong with how you distrubute stats.

    No it’s not.
    They do 20% less damage.
    But I forget my place oh King and mine is just the opinion of a
    Beggar pleb not worth much and never earned anything being carried by my companions, unlike yourself, using the same companions.
  • fritz#8093 fritz Member Posts: 439 Arc User
    wilbur626 said:

    Its very hard to follow your reasoning, but if "getting good" is pushing the companion upgrade button four times in a row, the two of us is playing a very different game. If the fix to the Air Archon has you raging like this, you are in for a rough ride as they will continue balancing for quite some time.

    I'm not as passionate about it either, but that's mostly because I can just upgrade the next best companion and be happy. But for most accounts upgrading even one companion to Mythic is a monumental task. To see your time investment going down the drain just like that is tough. To some degree that's just the lifecycle of an MMO item, but I think we can agree that the handling was (once again) extremely unprofessional.

    Cryptic for sure has data about active companion usage. Either they didn't check the data or they felt like giving the community a heads up when changing a highly popular companion wasn't necessary. Both is just astonishingly ignorant. This game lacks a very basic approach on how to deal with communicating changes and staying in touch with the playerbase. @nitocris83 sweeps the forum on Mondays anyway. She could easily put up a weekly post describing what the devs currently work on. If it's stuff they can't talk about you could list "future content" or just omit it.
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User

    wilbur626 said:

    Its very hard to follow your reasoning, but if "getting good" is pushing the companion upgrade button four times in a row, the two of us is playing a very different game. If the fix to the Air Archon has you raging like this, you are in for a rough ride as they will continue balancing for quite some time.

    I'm not as passionate about it either, but that's mostly because I can just upgrade the next best companion and be happy. But for most accounts upgrading even one companion to Mythic is a monumental task. To see your time investment going down the drain just like that is tough. To some degree that's just the lifecycle of an MMO item, but I think we can agree that the handling was (once again) extremely unprofessional.

    Cryptic for sure has data about active companion usage. Either they didn't check the data or they felt like giving the community a heads up when changing a highly popular companion wasn't necessary. Both is just astonishingly ignorant. This game lacks a very basic approach on how to deal with communicating changes and staying in touch with the playerbase. @nitocris83 sweeps the forum on Mondays anyway. She could easily put up a weekly post describing what the devs currently work on. If it's stuff they can't talk about you could list "future content" or just omit it.
    I 100% agree on the communication part. Maybe @noworries#8859 could enlighten us all by clarifiying what the end goal for these companion adjustments is ?
    Elite Whaleboy
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,093 Arc User
    LOL

    player complain that team doesn't fix stuff, they start fixing overperforming stuff and players complain even more

    if you are playing the game and your damage depends on the overperforming companion for "top" dps damage, you are definitly not skilled on the class you play
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    The nerfs to the Cold Iron Warrior and Xuna are coming - @nitocris83 has put this in writing, meaning players are going to start testing and paying for the 'next big thing' - so those currently using them need to start losing that attachment now. It's already on the cards.

    In the past, the unlucky majority have always had to pay a premium to obtain the 'next big thing' because everyone is chasing it and the AH price skyrockets.

    Unless that is, the significant gap in effectiveness between companions is properly addressed. I prefer the model used for mounts. Several mounts can have the same sort of powers and bonuses so we don't 'need' the latest & greatest. Players will get them because they have 'new & shiny' show-off value but don't really impact a player's effectiveness.

    But players still need companions to be 'effective' in combat. They ALL need to do decent DPS - imo that would put them around the 25k mark, putting them around the current 6th-7th BiS single target measurement.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,041 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    Well, it would make more sense to actually improve all companions to a more useful level, so that we get more options to choose from...

    And they also said a while back before messing up the companions that they would "look into" improving the healing companions, but nothing has happened in that department, they're as crappy as they were before all the changes.
    Not to mention that those tanking companions can't hold the interest of even a few regular mobs, something that should also be looked into and changed at some point.

    I mean, if they're dead set on HAMSTER up the damage dealing companions, they could at least give us some properly working healing/tanking ones in return.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User
    > @armadeonx said:
    > The nerfs to the Cold Iron Warrior and Xuna are coming - @nitocris83 has put this in writing, meaning players are going to start testing and paying for the 'next big thing' - so those currently using them need to start losing that attachment now. It's already on the cards.
    >
    > In the past, the unlucky majority have always had to pay a premium to obtain the 'next big thing' because everyone is chasing it and the AH price skyrockets.
    >
    > Unless that is, the significant gap in effectiveness between companions is properly addressed. I prefer the model used for mounts. Several mounts can have the same sort of powers and bonuses so we don't 'need' the latest & greatest. Players will get them because they have 'new & shiny' show-off value but don't really impact a player's effectiveness.
    >
    > But players still need companions to be 'effective' in combat. They ALL need to do decent DPS - imo that would put them around the 25k mark, putting them around the current 6th-7th BiS single target measurement.

    The testing is already done, and all the top companions (apart from Psuedodragon, Owl and Honeybadger) is on their to-do list.
    I’m willing to bet players have already “invested” in those at an extremely inflated price, and that those players will see the nerf-hammer hit hard again.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • rockster#6227 rockster Member Posts: 1,860 Arc User
    regenerde said:

    Well, it would make more sense to actually improve all companions to a more useful level, so that we get more options to choose from...

    And they also said a while back before messing up the companions that they would "look into" improving the healing companions, but nothing has happened in that department, they're as crappy as they were before all the changes.
    Not to mention that those tanking companions can't hold the interest of even a few regular mobs, something that should also be looked into and changed at some point.

    I mean, if they're dead set on HAMSTER up the damage dealing companions, they could at least give us some properly working healing/tanking ones in return.

    When I read this it made me think that if a tanking companion held too much aggro it would compete with an actual tank player in a group and steal aggro away from them which would not be a good thing to have happen as the tank would lose control of mobs, the last thing a tank would want to have happen, but then I thought of someone soloing when you need more aggro than they currently have, and it came to my mind that a companion would be good if it was more dynamic in combat like an actual player, if it could act slightly differently according to the situation it found itself in and have a little bit more developed AI than they do. It would be nice if it could know when it was needed more and when it wasn't sort of thing and adjust it's actions accordingly. More for tanking companions that anything else but healers as well maybe. Dream on I guess.
    Apparently pointing-out the bleeding obvious is a 'personal attack'.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,041 Arc User
    Well, the companion aggro skills could just be scaled down in group content, and the same within reason could be done with the healing from companions, therefore no direct competition to any actual tank/healer player.

    I mean they've already said that they will be pumping out more companions with the next update, so again, why not simply improve at least some of the existing companions at the same time?
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 654 Arc User
    regenerde said:

    Well, the companion aggro skills could just be scaled down in group content, and the same within reason could be done with the healing from companions, therefore no direct competition to any actual tank/healer player.

    I mean they've already said that they will be pumping out more companions with the next update, so again, why not simply improve at least some of the existing companions at the same time?

    If existing companions get improved, then the player base would have less incentive to get the new ones coming out.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,041 Arc User
    stark760 said:

    regenerde said:

    Well, the companion aggro skills could just be scaled down in group content, and the same within reason could be done with the healing from companions, therefore no direct competition to any actual tank/healer player.

    I mean they've already said that they will be pumping out more companions with the next update, so again, why not simply improve at least some of the existing companions at the same time?

    If existing companions get improved, then the player base would have less incentive to get the new ones coming out.
    Well, i'm rather sure that more then enough players will go after another fresh companion being brought into the game, even when that companion is only as good as the ones they already have - but we all know, that new companions will always be better then the old ones in some way, so that's not really an issue.

    And as mentioned before, it would be nice to have more choices here...
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • melotai#0794 melotai Member Posts: 271 Arc User
    since the changes, for my alts and my main, I have kind of treated my active companions as vanity pets in that I equip the ones I think look cool with them and do not worry at all about what they actually do. Currently my main has a mythic chultan tiger to go with her preferred mount the medium tiger and I have another toon where I changed his fashion colors to be all yellow and equipped everything chicken. I only regret that I made no effort to get the chicken artifact as well for that one.


    My two primary DPS still have xuna and makos equipped but now a days it is simply because they are the only mythic companions available to them and not having a mythic companion summoned seems to reduce their abilities by a significant amount.

    As near as I can tell all my alt DPS and Healer toons are still viable in RTQ or atleast their names still appear on the Paingiver and Executioner list.
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User

    wilbur626 said:


    I want to be able to use whatever companion I want to use without being excluded by the "elite". If this means nerfing Xuna to the ground, so be it.

    Rofl... Who prevents you from playing what you want?

    The problem is not the nerf, or adjust or call you what you want, the problem is the lack of communication, and also the time that goes until they change it.

    Totally agree
    wilbur626 said:


    I dont understand what you mean. Players using companions that are obviously overperforming = players that differ from players that are "unwilling to put in work" ?

    Don't manipulate the message. What he has told you is very clear.

    You are free to use whatever stuff you want, but if you use worse equipment than other players, you cannot expect the same performance. If you feel excluded for not having the stuff that allows you to perform better, you have two options:
    1) "Work" to get that stuff
    2) Play with better players who don't make those exclusions

    Nerfing that stuff is a very bad solution.
    wilbur626 said:

    @silente07#2597

    Doing "HAMSTER poor damage" damage is a result of a choice you made when building your tank. Having to rely on a companion to do quests should tell you that there is something fundamentally wrong with how you distrubute stats.

    Having a good striker is the "low cost" solution that many tanks have to farm content. Not everyone has the currency to double stuff to focus one loadout on damage and another on tankiness.
    wilbur626 said:

    ."
    This would be a wast improvement to the current state of the game, where there is a maximum of 2 correct choices (out of 150+ companions) for any content.

    Improve the rest of the companion ... lol

    If you destroy the two correct choices there are, you do not improve the state of the game. You just don't have correct choices.

    wilbur626 said:

    ...where there is a maximum of 2 correct choices (out of 150+ companions) for any content.

    i mean, i agree that there are a lot of companions in the objectively useless/HAMSTER category. but the solution to that is to *improve* those companions. to make them viable. not to demolish the ones that *are* viable.
    Exactly.

    But, you know ... If you balance the game by that way, there is a risk that people will keep their companions. Therefore there would be no investment by the players. If you want to force spending in the community, the nerfs are more effective.

    This is not about improving or balancing the state of the game ... it is about continuing to squeeze the wallet of the players.
    armadeonx said:

    Any method that causes grief to players that have spent a lot on a resource is going to make people unhappy - even when it is for the greater good.

    If Cryptic are going to address the serious imbalances between companions they need to bear this in mind and think of some way to compensate those that would lose any significant investment.

    I continue to deny that concept of "compensation". This is an RPG where there will always be "adjustments" (A.K.A nerfs). we need to deal with it.

    What we have to ask ourselves, and really demand some answers ... is why they released the elite pack 3 weeks ago or why they waited for the Astralboxes and Tradebar Discount events to end to announce "the adjustments" in the companions.

    There is no need to demand compensation ... maybe we have to start to stop investing until they show a little more ethics.
    wilbur626 said:


    Its very hard to follow your reasoning, but if "getting good" is pushing the companion upgrade button four times in a row..

    Funny way to describe hundreds of companion tokens.
    wilbur626 said:


    I 100% agree on the communication part. Maybe @noworries#8859 could enlighten us all by clarifiying what the end goal for these companion adjustments is ?

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    Im not that guy, but the answer is so obvious that he isnt necessary.

    I think one thing is missing from these post. And that is the fact that Cryptic knew about Xuna overperforming for more than a year. They milked this selling it on the Zen shop; in a RNG fashion as a choice pack included in special refinement packs.
    People spend RL currencies on this. It is not the question whether the people should have bought it. The question is WHY are the players who invest their resources (money and time) treated this way. To me this is awful as it is done intentionally. Just to get our money and then turn around and punish us for wanting to play the best that this game can offer.

    Ding ding ding ding ding ding ... Here we have the winner of the thread¡¡¡¡
    arcanjo86 said:

    LOL

    player complain that team doesn't fix stuff, they start fixing overperforming stuff and players complain even more

    if you are playing the game and your damage depends on the overperforming companion for "top" dps damage, you are definitly not skilled on the class you play

    Nope ...
    People complain that, knowing that these companions needed a fix, they have taken advantage of this month with Packs and weekly events, all of them focused on obtaining and upgrading companions, and just after announcing that they are going to "adjust" them.

    Also ... there are probably dozens of bugs much more annoying for the community. Literally Neverwinter is a bug with legs..xD

    I insist, announce adjustments in the main companions of the meta just after the Astralboxes + Tradebars Discount events ... and a few days before the arrival of the Echoes of Prophecy, where there will be new companions ..... YES¡¡ ... Sure everything has been planned to improve the state of the game and not in your $$$$



    I disagree
    Elite Whaleboy
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