Greetings everyone! I have begun the summary of this topic; I will be re-reading and doing a write-up for every comment in order to be as comprehensive as possible. That will allow us to better see the common elements or groupings of ideas for a general summary. This thread will remain open until Monday to allow for any additional last minute feedback or top 3 takeaways commentary.
1. PvP accessibility Kegsondeck addresses one of the issues I've talked about in my post. In my opinion an item level restriction is not as effective in the grand scheme of things, but is far simpler to implement and also has absolutely zero risks to it. It is endgame after all and players should be informed about that fact. Maybe around 20-21k, similar to LOMM.
2. Balance across paragons and roles Cannot ever be perfect, but could sure be improved, e.g. a certain class has a huge advantage over any other in single target damage (TOMM). I don't really play any other PvE but I would be surprised if there weren't any similar problems in multi target scenarios. Balancing should also take PvP into consideration.
3. Rewards Rebalancing rewards throughout the game, most importantly in queued content. This should also include PvP rewards per match.
Top 3 ideas: 1.) Multiple Tiers of Dungeons and Skirmishes, along with rewards that match the difficulty. 2.) Clearer path for new players via an option from Sgt. Knox - What should I be doing? 3.) Better rewards across all content that is updated to meet player progression i.e. Why do we get green insignia's from doing the opening quest lines in each zone of SKT campaign?
I already put my top three but just wanted to echo others suggestion of having better tool tips that more clearly explain to all players what does what. An example would be the companions, as it stands players need to go to outside sources to find out if the companion they want to purchase has a offensive, defensive, or utility bonus. Also it would be nice if each time you load into a zone the game would explain to the player what stats are needed to combat the enemies in the zone. It would also be helpful if this information was accessible through the pause menu as someone suggested in an encyclopedia. This would all fall under my #2.) Clearer path for new players, but really it should be the top.
1. Rewards Introduce unique and proper rewards for the dungeons. That would make all content worth running. (for example: remove the daily reward of AD and introduce a weekly reward for every dungeon. That way the people(like me) that only have a couple of hours on the weekend to play could grind out the dungeons and still keep up). Also, remove the rewards(incentive) for end game players to run leveling dungeons. Its awful for new players to get in to a dungeon run just to see the group to take off and never to be seen until the boss fights (if you don't get kicked before that). I know for a fact that my son gave up playing this game because he could not keep up in the dungeons and was kicked one to many times.
2. Content Bring back the tales of old dungeons permanently, introduce more tiers to existing dungeons, introduce the "tarokka" cards for dungeons, etc. Do one thing or all of the above but more content is really requested by pretty much everyone.
3. Keep gear valid Don't make the hard earned gear and rewards we pick up obsolete with every new mod. Its really frustrating to finally get that hard earned piece of a weapon set or artifact just to start chasing a new one before its even upgraded yet (it happened more times than I can count). Someone suggested to introduce upgrade kits that could be made with professions or mastercrafting. That is really interesting to me and the ingedients for upgrades could be found as rewards (see fist point) in the dungeones.
Thank you and good luck
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lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
1. Rewards introduce the "tarokka" cards for dungeons, etc.
I'm a huge fan of this suggestion, and it has been suggested a number of times, going at least as far back as @hastur905 's "Bubbles" video back in 2018: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XHXLdRGeiI This would be a great way to enhance dungeon rewards, allow players to manage their own difficulty, open a progression system for earning better rewards from the same dungeons, as well as open revenue opportunities for "cards".
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
I've been playing paladin for five years. I have played oathkeeper .. but i must only have [Sacred Weapon] [Divine Shelter] [Circle of Divinity] encounter. Unfortunately, this encounter is not enoughfor me. We want to have more and more encounter. at least please take this into account in the new module.
I proposed such a system in a post I made earlier, here:
Another design which could work is a PVE leaderboard system, with dungeons that allow you to gradually increase their difficulty. Each time you complete a harder version, it allows you to run another version which is even more scaled. At the end of the month, the team which gets the furthest is given a reward. At the start of a month, players have the option to "check in" with a team which they will compete in for that month. In addition to the reward for getting deeper, crafting materials can be awarded from monsters. Increasing the difficulty increases the quantity of drops. This incentivizes people more casual to involve themselves in the system, even if they have no interest in competing for number 1.
To close off my thoughts on scaling, the problem with it is definitely with the scaling of the players and not the scaling of enemies, which causes it to leave a bad taste in people's mouth. Furthermore, not everything should be scaled. Campaign zones have no reason to be.
Not practical since most players do not run with same team all the time not even same 10 players. That means players Will not be able to form a party to run the content at your difficulty level
There are more than BIS players in this game RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ???? FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
1. Rewards introduce the "tarokka" cards for dungeons, etc.
I'm a huge fan of this suggestion, and it has been suggested a number of times, going at least as far back as @hastur905 's "Bubbles" video back in 2018: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XHXLdRGeiI This would be a great way to enhance dungeon rewards, allow players to manage their own difficulty, open a progression system for earning better rewards from the same dungeons, as well as open revenue opportunities for "cards".
Was mentioned in alliance before hastur mentioned it
There are more than BIS players in this game RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ???? FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
1
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited January 2020
I apologize for the deviation from the format, and while the topic is accessibility, I think a lot of what seems as an accessibility issue is more of a motivation balance issue (except off course things like color blindness).
Should / Could the in-game info be improved?
Yeah, a lot, been writing about this for ages, especially in terms of accuracy and clarity.
Is it a real show stopper for players? I don't think so, the game is forgiving enough in most content (I'll get to this), allows trial and error, and there is crapton of info around, and I'm not talking about "complicated boring math", but simple "get X stat, put Y feat, and you good to go"
Also in part, asking for the information, posting, replying, are part of a live community, and its interaction, it is a fine balance On the opposite side, no matter how much information is provided, there will be always issues, just some time ago, no worries posted that the new dungeon will be easier despite the higher counter ratings and few days after: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1253428/mod-18-will-force-players-to-leave-game
If a person wants to look something that even available in-game, or dev blog, or few clicks away somewhere or ask in chat, becomes a question of do they want to bother? A question of motivation. (And not the nitty gritty theory crafting but the simpler things)
Difficulty tiers of the same content? (Or difficulty modifiers, like cards)
IMO, this idea is much more complicated than the easy solution is seem to provide. On the simple way of "same content, easier variants, with lower reward" (aka ndemo, vs edemo) etc. IMO it will just fails to solve the issue, and creates more instead.
Will a person run a 100+ runs of a "baby" version and then 100+ of the beefed up one? I highly doubt it. Will having the same thing but at different difficulties impede players personal progress? IMO yes, what is the motivation to gear up if all you get is the same..
Such solution will require the different tiers to be significantly different to motivate people to unlock them, and do them. But different content we do have, and even that is just not utilized enough. I've tried other games who scaled content in such way, and it took the proper ecosystem for it to work, something NW doesn't have.
And this brings to the bottom line, motivation, the main issue imo. Is there motivation to do Castle Ravneloft for example? PvP? Or most of the content that already in the game..
Many players do have it accessible, or the path to that accessibility is simple enough, but they want to invest the time, effort, or even if it is 0 investment, do the content anyway? Seems to me that in most cases, the answer is NO.
IMO the main thing for accessibility will be clearer linear progress without steep jumps (for the majority of the player-base) combined with similar learning curve, if it is per content piece or on the micro level, or classes, general mechanics, and so on on the macro level.
On the flip side of accessibility will be what I've described before, and it is motivation, and not only in terms of rewards. The whole concept needs to motivate player to do content, improve their char, their understanding of the game, unlock more, and do it. Simply better rewards will help, but they are not the whole solution. Which too need a whole concept rework.
Even looking at m18 dungeon, which for many is 100% accessible, the question will be will they run it more than a token number of times or beyond helping others? Unlikely. And creating pitifully low rng for marginally better item usually doesn't help, and creates a "Won't even bother" mentality.
And btw, mentality and how content is perceived, its image, has a lot to do with it, but I've rambled enough.
And btw, mentality and how content is perceived, its image, has a lot to do with it, but I've rambled enough.
I want to highlight on this statement for a second too. There is too much in this game that falls into the "don't really need it to beat the content so why bother" category.
FBI gear, I gave up on that after never getting it to drop after months. That was one of the last mods I hardcore grinded content for a drop.
Barovia weapons? Did anyone even bother with them? There's a lot of weapon sets that have limited value so why bother with them.
From the sounds of the M18 dungeon, I'll go in there and do it and tuck it away in the LoMM corner. The dark corner where no good rewards exist so why bother going there.
I want to highlight on this statement for a second too. There is too much in this game that falls into the "don't really need it to beat the content so why bother" category.
As much as I've butted heads with these two, we're on the same page. There's SO much in this game that falls under the "why bother with it" category.
I left as soon as Underdark started. I had a big project I was working on that came up, but I was also tired of the game.
So tired.
It was the same BS over and over again. The changes that came with Elemental Evil polarized the community. Let's face it, it sucked. It was BAD design and people were incredibly pissed about it.
The Devs didn't listen. "Everything is working as intended."
Only a few months later, did they finally admit it was a flawed and failed design, so they implemented changes, but by then, the damage was done. In my Guild alone, we lost about 20% of the active player-base. They moved on to ESO or something else.
FBI gear, I gave up on that after never getting it to drop after months. That was one of the last mods I hardcore grinded content for a drop.
Barovia weapons? Did anyone even bother with them? There's a lot of weapon sets that have limited value so why bother with them.
This right here, speaks volumes. I've never run FBI, or TONG, or CODG and why should I? There's nothing of value there for me and I'm still playing catch up on boons, but is there even value in that?
The Cloaked Ascendancy - a long and arduous grind for a couple of boons? - No thanks.
Sea of Moving Ice - another long and arduous grind for a couple of boons? - No thanks.
Now, I DID come back for Ravenloft. I mean, it's Ravenloft! I used the gear I got there, since I was basically still running Castle Never equipment on all of my toons. Then, I finished it on my main. Talk about a complete letdown. What a lame ending to an epic story.
Castle Ravenloft - a buggy mess that still isn't fixed for equipment that's now worthless? - No thanks.
I won't even get into Acquistions Incorporated. I'll never finish it. I've only made it as far as I have simply for 1) the Heart of Fire enchant and 2) the fact I can turn OFF the sound and not have to listen to any of those annoying characters ever. I didn't find it remotely humorous, enticing or engaging. In fact, I don't feel it was even relevant to Neverwinter. It doesn't belong in the game. It was a waste of resources.
From the sounds of the M18 dungeon, I'll go in there and do it and tuck it away in the LoMM corner. The dark corner where no good rewards exist so why bother going there.
Ah Mod 18......
Let's be honest, it's Mod 17. "Uprising" wasn't a mod. It was a repackaged Mod 16. More like Mod16.25
Now, this is the point, where my post is probably going to end up in the Lower Depths, but it needs to be said.
I'm a developer. I work primarily as a character modeling, rigger, animator and also an environmental artist. I've worked at BioWare, Netherrealms Studios and a couple of other smaller dev groups. I've worked on 4 or 5 major projects and have my named tacked to over a dozen indie/mobile games.
Mod "17" consisted of the SAME maps from Mod 16, save, what, two? It used the same Cryptic Engine (I don't know your internal name for your engine) Mob Spawners in the same places as the maps in Mod 16. You didn't even bother to scale them up to match the Mod. They're using the same stats from Mod16, but you ADDED Mob Spawners for the Gith/Illithid mobs, that WERE scaled to Mod 17 content. You even left the Scrying Stone placeables where they were, but just disabled them.
Master Expeditions? Well, the only thing you did there was remove the runic placeables and change the Boss Spawner to either a Gith or an Ilithid. All of the trash mobs were using the same Mob Spawners as before, again not updated to the Mod 17 stat caps.
Even the Gith race isn't an incentive. As a character artist, I KNOW you're using the same base model for your humanoid models. It's under 20k in polys, already been through retopology for better sculpting and animations, paint-weighted and UV-mapped for quick texturing in Substance Painter or something similar. All of this is done in Maya, as you're using morph targets for customization and they all have the SAME morph target sliders, which also means any new equipment made will match up perfectly (Except for the head) with every race. Rigging new models is nothing, 'cos they all have the same paint-weights, are all the same poly count and use the same, generic rig, which is probably weighted via Mel Scripting and pre-saved paint-weights, so it requires little to no maintenance from your rigger. In fact, the longest part of this process is the ZBrush sculpt.
Now, this is fast and efficient. How do I know? Cos I use the exact same pipeline when I need to do character modeling.
Anyway, back to topic:
I actually played Mod18 on Preview. You know what my first thought was?
"Wow.....they used the Stronghold map with a reskin again."
Let that sink in. What I noticed, wasn't game play, or story.
It was the fact that you used the same map over again.......
* * *
In short, as a consumer and a player, I don't have a lot of faith in development at Cryptic. Mod 16 was NOT asked for and is a train wreck. DPS balance is WAY off by the admittance of a Developer for using 2 different formulae to calculate damage, but it's "Working as intended." Again, it took months to admit it wasn't function as intended.
I get the stat/counter-stat issue and how it was necessitated, due to power creep, but the "all or nothing" approach with some stats, as opposed to others, is a failure. Even if I don't hit cap, the points I DO have should work in my favor, but it's either 100% or Zero. By doing this, you've basically devalued every single 3 stat enchant out there, since it's no longer favorable to point spread. If you can't hit cap, you sink it into HP or Power. For new players, it's virtually impossible to hit stat caps, except for the Dynamic Duo of Arm Pen and Crit. A lot of people got screwed over by this, if they invested in 3-stat enchants, since before Mod 16 point spread was important, but now it's a waste, if you can't hit the cap. Go look at the pathetic price a Rank 10 Black Ice is on the Auction House, compared to a Rank 10 Radiant or Dark.
The stat changes were useless and served no purpose, other than solidify that into a single excel sheet, instead of one per Class.
I have a Tiefling Warlock who is automatically at a disadvantage for taking +2 Con, which was the original primary stat for Warlocks, so she could maximize her damage output. Even the HP bonus is a joke, 'cos it should be based off the TOTAL sum of HP (for Tanks, mainly) instead of BASE.
I have a Dwarf Arbiter who is automatically at a disadvantage for taking +2 Wis, which was the original primary stat for Clerics, so he could maximize his damage output. Now, it's based off Int. Oh, it's great for a Healer, but I don't want to play one.
I have a Tiefling Paladin who is at a SEVERE disadvantage, 'cos he has a 9 Str and At-Wills are Strength-based damage, his Encounters dailies are magical-based Int damage, but it was originally based off Wis.
NONE of these toon, or ANYONE'S toons got an Attribute re-roll token after you hard-coded Attribute stats. Basically, if you made a toon pre-Mod16, tough HAMSTER and deal with it, if the changes cripple your toon.
As developers, Cryptic needs to grow a thicker skin. Ask anyone that's been round since 2013 and we can give you a list as long as our arms of screw ups, mistakes, blatant disregard for the player-base, exploits, etc. We are GOING to be critical.
But......
We're still HERE.
If you want to make money, you HAVE to make us happy. Own your mistakes. Listen to your player base. QA your development BEFORE it gets to Preview.
Personally I don't like this idea. A large part of the players I see around like doing solo stuff. Building the campaign inside a dungeon will take that part away. Dungeons put pressure on people. There should also be a place for a more relaxed style.
@sobi#1980 responding to the post directly above mine
I'm probably alone on this one in the forums but I think maybe there are a lot that do agree with me in game, but i HATE the holy trinity. I prefered the way it was with lifesteal, buff/debuff before personally. but a HUGE margin. I don't want to be a healer. I don't want the hate they get if they're doing their job or not. I don't want to be a tank because of the hate they get, whether they are doing their job or not. and I think a lot of people are with me there. it was one of the things that made this particular mmo stick out from the rest in a very good way. now not so much for just so many reasons. it's the reason that heals and tanks are a little harder to come by. like 3% actually LIKE playing those classes. many people actually liked being buff debuff. and as a dps I really dislike depending on heals to heal me. I like playing with other people but I dislike my health being reliant on them.
I'm with you to a certain extent. In the early stages of this game damage was not that heavy compared to the overall hit points of a typical DPS or tank. As a DPS I could rely on potions for my healing most if the time. The healer had less focus on healing and could do other things like pushing enemies or buffing with ease (healer meant Cleric at the time).
Then lifesteal took over and that was bad. I remember groups of 5 DPS steamrolling dungeons because they were able to outheal any damage while dealing massive damage at the same time. And they were even able to do door-to-door pulls. That's the main reason why mod 6 had to do a complete rehaul of the system.
Personally I'd like to go back to the first system, with less damage, less healing and more use of potions. Nowadays only a tank can get a hit from a boss. This means that the strategy in combat is always the same: tank has to get boss' agro. My suggestion to the dev team would be to go back to mod1-mod2 and play the old epic dungeons. That was Neverwinter at its best.
you are one of the few that like being heals apparently. the part of the game you dislike is the part i liked best. potions are no good imo. especially with the cooldowns. lifesteal was awesome. heals pushing enemies is also one of the GREAT banes of dps. as I recall heals would get kicked for that particular sin.
If people would pick up the heals when they go down, then they wouldn't have to send the mobs flying, after stealing aggro from a bad tank...
Quick reminder to please stay on topic for this phase. If it looks like we are at the conclusion of this phase then we will close the thread in preparation for the summary and proposal at which time the thread will be opened again for any refining of the proposal. I will check back later.
@micky1p00 at the comment about N and M dungeons. it's already been proven that people will run both. both msva and nsva and n demo and m demo. people DID run them both hundreds of times. I know I did. I know other people in my guild and alliance did because I was with them for both. yes the ultra bis might not run the n dungeons. and the casuals might not run the M dungeon btu that's the point.... it's inclusivity for both. and there are some that will run both because they're gearing up and learning both. the rewards need to be different.. that's all.
1. Normal and master versions of new and difficult content. But, if you don't do this, then please AT LEAST give players somewhere to practice the mechanics of new and difficult dungeons outside of the dungeon itself. Example: CODG push/pull, most LOMM mechanics, all of TOMM. For example: the end boss for a 3-rune Master Expedition could be Halaster's Apprentice, who does a scaled down version of one of the elemental phases in TOMM. Or, it could be Arcturia's Sister, who does a scaled down version of the first boss fight (including cocoon phase) in LOMM. We'd then get to at least SEE the mechanics and PRACTICE them with a 5-person party in a lower-risk setting.
2. When you distribute a new mod, please give something *meaningful* to all of the different types of players (hardcore end-gamers, casual players, PVPers, roleplayers/fashionistas, etc.) It doesn't have to be EQUALLY meaningful to all groups, but it should be meaningful enough. What left a bitter taste in a lot of people's mouths about Mod 17 is that it seemed as if you only catered to the hardcore end-gamers, and gave very little to everyone else. I am frankly sick of Master Expeditions after having nothing to do but ME's (and the occasional LOMM) for 2 mods straight now.
3. Please create a shared bank tab for crafting materials. It is really annoying to have to email crafting materials back and forth between all my characters on my account.
Everyone saying grinding boons is long and not worth it, that might be true for the first time through, but this last x2 campaigns event before Christmas, I made a new toon, applied all the campaign signets to him, and got all the boons in a week, except for Underdark, the last one from SKT, last one from ToD, and AI.
While it is true that the boons really don't add much to your character individually, as a whole, if you have them all, it does, sorta, but you could have no boons, and be geared, and run everything, so yeah.
Also, I think leveling should take much more time, like at least 2+ months of grinding, not 2 days. And getting almost all the boons in a week, is a joke. It should take much longer. If it did take a lot longer, older content would be more viable. People would have to use older gear for longer, which would make it more valuable, which would make older content worth running for end gamers. Some might not agree, but I'm just typing as I think, so sorry if it's a little cluttered, I hope you get the idea.
Everyone saying grinding boons is long and not worth it, that might be true for the first time through, but this last x2 campaigns event before Christmas, I made a new toon, applied all the campaign signets to him, and got all the boons in a week, except for Underdark, the last one from SKT, last one from ToD, and AI.
While it is true that the boons really don't add much to your character individually, as a whole, if you have them all, it does, sorta, but you could have no boons, and be geared, and run everything, so yeah.
Also, I think leveling should take much more time, like at least 2+ months of grinding, not 2 days. And getting almost all the boons in a week, is a joke. It should take much longer. If it did take a lot longer, older content would be more viable. People would have to use older gear for longer, which would make it more valuable, which would make older content worth running for end gamers. Some might not agree, but I'm just typing as I think, so sorry if it's a little cluttered, I hope you get the idea.
levelling is not fun though. and the old content is not fun. if it took longer far fewer would make it to end game. I think i'd have quit. I don't know how you managed to get all the boons in a week even with 2x. holy guacamole. I've never managed faster than a month. so with a 2x that would be 2 weeks. I really doubt a new comer would figure out the tips and tricks to do it that fast. imo they need to just get rid of all the old levelling content. or have it as some kind of legacy thing ppl can go back and do if they want to for some kind of special fashion gear or some other reward. those old quests and even the campaigns are just not fun to do though. not fun at all.
Everyone saying grinding boons is long and not worth it, that might be true for the first time through, but this last x2 campaigns event before Christmas, I made a new toon, applied all the campaign signets to him, and got all the boons in a week, except for Underdark, the last one from SKT, last one from ToD, and AI.
While it is true that the boons really don't add much to your character individually, as a whole, if you have them all, it does, sorta, but you could have no boons, and be geared, and run everything, so yeah.
Also, I think leveling should take much more time, like at least 2+ months of grinding, not 2 days. And getting almost all the boons in a week, is a joke. It should take much longer. If it did take a lot longer, older content would be more viable. People would have to use older gear for longer, which would make it more valuable, which would make older content worth running for end gamers. Some might not agree, but I'm just typing as I think, so sorry if it's a little cluttered, I hope you get the idea.
levelling is not fun though. and the old content is not fun. if it took longer far fewer would make it to end game. I think i'd have quit. I don't know how you managed to get all the boons in a week even with 2x. holy guacamole. I've never managed faster than a month. so with a 2x that would be 2 weeks. I really doubt a new comer would figure out the tips and tricks to do it that fast. imo they need to just get rid of all the old levelling content. or have it as some kind of legacy thing ppl can go back and do if they want to for some kind of special fashion gear or some other reward. those old quests and even the campaigns are just not fun to do though. not fun at all.
I disagree, the most fun I ever had in the game besides PVP, was my first time leveling, I just wish the story was more in-depth and immersive. When the game started to suck, was when I got to 70 and everything became monotonous and nothing but grinding for ad so I can run that new shiny dungeon.
Everyone saying grinding boons is long and not worth it, that might be true for the first time through, but this last x2 campaigns event before Christmas, I made a new toon, applied all the campaign signets to him, and got all the boons in a week, except for Underdark, the last one from SKT, last one from ToD, and AI.
While it is true that the boons really don't add much to your character individually, as a whole, if you have them all, it does, sorta, but you could have no boons, and be geared, and run everything, so yeah.
Also, I think leveling should take much more time, like at least 2+ months of grinding, not 2 days. And getting almost all the boons in a week, is a joke. It should take much longer. If it did take a lot longer, older content would be more viable. People would have to use older gear for longer, which would make it more valuable, which would make older content worth running for end gamers. Some might not agree, but I'm just typing as I think, so sorry if it's a little cluttered, I hope you get the idea.
levelling is not fun though. and the old content is not fun. if it took longer far fewer would make it to end game. I think i'd have quit. I don't know how you managed to get all the boons in a week even with 2x. holy guacamole. I've never managed faster than a month. so with a 2x that would be 2 weeks. I really doubt a new comer would figure out the tips and tricks to do it that fast. imo they need to just get rid of all the old levelling content. or have it as some kind of legacy thing ppl can go back and do if they want to for some kind of special fashion gear or some other reward. those old quests and even the campaigns are just not fun to do though. not fun at all.
I disagree, the most fun I ever had in the game besides PVP, was my first time leveling, I just wish the story was more in-depth and immersive. When the game started to suck, was when I got to 70 and everything became monotonous and nothing but grinding for ad so I can run that new shiny dungeon.
you are the only person I've ever talked to who said something like that. just sayin is all. for me the fun is in the newer content. I am goal oriented. grinding for something with a purpose is fun. I like chasing carrots. i also like making ad. I enjoyed fishing (yeah I know it's just me there) I enjoyed the chultan hunts. fishing and chult are what allowed me to go from casual to end game. I spent my time farming and trading and was able to trade up in gear to be viable to go on and be one of the first waves to complete the barovian dungeon and trade up even more from that.
I didn't really enjoy the barovian hunts. we started getting too close to participation trophies there for my liking and the rewards were in the meh category. as long as I could make ad I kept doing the chultan hunts right thru the barovian ones. I barely touched hunts in barovia. I enjoy new dungeons with some challenge and some kind of rare carrot to chase that I can use and make a profit off of. the barovian dungeon was awesome at first. those sweet sweet shards of prominence. as it moves more towards participation trophies grinding for stuff has become unrewarding.
I dislike that pc gets to do and learn all the things before we get it. we never have that chance of discovery of figuring out mechanics. already have to follow guides. there are times I do appreciate not having to do the frustrating parts myself.. but really it's a disappointment for the console. One of my best gaming experiences was in destiny with the croata raid. we were in there for hours figuring it out. it was a lot of fun. we spent like 24 hours straight in there (small guild of like 15 people we traded out as people came online. finally got it done. it was a huge feeling of accomplishment. I may be off on the time spent but I remember going sleepless over it) that's something console will never have. even now with never being able to do it first the accomplishment of being first on console was ripped away by a pc gamer coming over to console. it bites.
when i first started this game I didn't enjoy the opening quests but after some reading figured out there was more to it and the rest of the game was very different. so I pushed thru. if I had thought the whole game was going to be like the opening missions I'd not have stuck around. when i first started well of dragons was still the new hotness. I spent about 2 months doing nothing but farming dragon runs for neck and waist pieces and doing tia. I really enjoyed that part of it.
Post edited by thefiresidecat on
1
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
Let's keep things on topic here please. Thanks.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
1 - Scaling - please do something about this? If I am a veteran character who can destroy hoards of undead and ;augh in the face of certain death, why do I get scaled down so badly in Malabog's Castle that it can take over 30 minutes to complete?
1a - Item Level requirements for Epic Random Dungeon/Random Trial Queue - raise all requirements by 10% at least to make them a little less painful. Malabog is a great example of how a relatively low item level DPS can get in an Epic and make almost no difference.
[I bunched the two above together as they are so interwoven]
2 - Revamp Rewards for all Random Queues - get rid of meaningless stuff and put in MOPs and Enchanting Stones OR currency similar to Legacy so we can grind out the MOPs and Enchanting Stones we need to give us a real sense of progression.
3 - Rewrite/analyse all the tool tips so they all are correct and all make sense
1. (Better) accessability for players with disabilities. 2. Rewards; what was pointed out already + looking closely at indivdual dungeon rewards since everything that isn't new or RQ is not interesting now. Imo: a Pool of possible rewards connected (no matter how old the dungeon it deserves relevant rewards depending on difficulty) to the tier/difficulty of the dungeon and/or tarokka-card-system (I really like this idea, but thats just me, I love barovia hunt system) 3. Tier Versions of Dungeons (or story versions, solo versions, introduction of mechanics earlier like others posted (if it has an impact and is unskipable in the campaign/quest situation it is a part of AND explained in a way similar to CN), closely associated with 2.
- bye bye -
2
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
> @thefiresidecat said: > (Quote) > you are the only person I've ever talked to who said something like that. just sayin is all. for me the fun is in the newer content. I am goal oriented. grinding for something with a purpose is fun. I like chasing carrots. i also like making ad. I enjoyed fishing (yeah I know it's just me there) I enjoyed the chultan hunts. fishing and chult are what allowed me to go from casual to end game. I spent my time farming and trading and was able to trade up in gear to be viable to go on and be one of the first waves to complete the barovian dungeon and trade up even more from that. > > I didn't really enjoy the barovian hunts. we started getting too close to participation trophies there for my liking and the rewards were in the meh category. as long as I could make ad I kept doing the chultan hunts right thru the barovian ones. I barely touched hunts in barovia. I enjoy new dungeons with some challenge and some kind of rare carrot to chase that I can use and make a profit off of. the barovian dungeon was awesome at first. those sweet sweet shards of prominence. as it moves more towards participation trophies grinding for stuff has become unrewarding. > > I dislike that pc gets to do and learn all the things before we get it. we never have that chance of discovery of figuring out mechanics. already have to follow guides. there are times I do appreciate not having to do the frustrating parts myself.. but really it's a disappointment for the console. One of my best gaming experiences was in destiny with the croata raid. we were in there for hours figuring it out. it was a lot of fun. we spent like 24 hours straight in there (small guild of like 15 people we traded out as people came online. finally got it done. it was a huge feeling of accomplishment. I may be off on the time spent but I remember going sleepless over it) that's something console will never have. even now with never being able to do it first the accomplishment of being first on console was ripped away by a pc gamer coming over to console. it bites. > > when i first started this game I didn't enjoy the opening quests but after some reading figured out there was more to it and the rest of the game was very different. so I pushed thru. if I had thought the whole game was going to be like the opening missions I'd not have stuck around. when i first started well of dragons was still the new hotness. I spent about 2 months doing nothing but farming dragon runs for neck and waist pieces and doing tia. I really enjoyed that part of it.
I am another one who absolutely enjoyed the first leveling. It was awesome. Moving from one burial mound in Ebon Downs and trying to understand the whole story behind was great. Same for Vellosk and Icespire. There are many types of players and to some exploration is an interesting part. That's why I hate the idea of infinite dungeons, the story becomes useless. It's the difference between playing Baldur's Gate and a Rogue-like game.
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Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Greetings! Some amazing discussions came out of this inaugural CDP topic - we strongly encourage everyone to read through the comments but we've also put together a topic summary. This summary is meant to cover the overarching themes and relevant subtopics so may not encompass discussions that are better suited for their own CDP. The proposal for this topic is still being worked on and we are aiming to have it available later this week.
CDP – Topic #1 Summary
Background
For the inaugural CDP topic, players were asked for their thoughts on the accessibility of Neverwinter in regards to the different types of players (hardcore, casual, veteran, beginner) and the difficulty and ease of content. Note: This CDP discussion did not include accessibility for disabilities or impairments as that is intended for its own separate topic. The topic thread spanned 13 pages with a total of 388 replies and 9,087 views.
Discussion Summary
The following major themes emerged from the comments:
Multiple versions of game content (dungeons/skirmishes/trials) One of the most popular pieces of feedback was a need for different difficulty versions of the same content, specifically dungeons, skirmishes, and trials. While players differed slightly in their approach regarding scope, how many tiers, and how to adjust the difficulty, there was a general consensus regarding the value of the different versions in regards to accessibility. Having this option would allow both hardcore and casual players to experience content, provide a learning/training area, and allow for flexibility in party/class setup and requirements to successfully complete the content.
In-game learning and information resources Expanding upon the “learning/training” aspect of multiple dungeons was another popular request for more in-depth information availability within the game. Hardcore players conceded that casual and new players were at a strong disadvantage in regards to understanding the complexities of stats, builds, and other progression-related features in the game. While the immediate benefit would seemingly be for newer or casual players, this is actually seen as a boon to veteran and hardcore players since it would reduce the amount of “live training” inconvenience they would have to do when queued with less experienced players.
Engagement motivators Long-time players strongly emphasized the need for motivators or drivers to return to the game on a consistent basis. The vastness and richness of Neverwinter systems and contents is viewed as underutilized; newer or leveling players still have a “reach max level” goal or content to run through. Masterwork professions, older dungeons, campaigns, achievements, and more were mentioned as areas of the game that would revitalize engagement or drive motivation.
Bonus theme: Scaling A final theme that was voiced across a large portion of the feedback was the impact of scaling. There continues to exist differing opinions on scaling, ranging from whether it should even exist to how it should be utilized but a common element is that long-term players should not be punished for their progression. Hardcore players want to feel the positive impact of their efforts in their gear, their refinement, their builds, etc. While this may seemingly be at odds with a continuous desire for challenging content, they key element is providing challenge in end-game/new content while not making older content punitive to hardcore players.
Secondary themes Among the core themes there also emerged some tangentially related topics that merit mention. A strong emphasis was made on Rewards and Loot Tables across the major themes. Having different tiers of dungeons would require different rewards. Having educational resources in game about the different rewards would allow newer players to better understand their viability or provide guidance in content directive. And, finally, making rewards sufficiently motivating for players to engage with content.
A secondary theme that emerged was the impact of Strongholds and guilds across the different player types. Guilds provide resources and support, with smaller guilds being more populated by casual players which in turn means less resources and support. Support for providing mechanisms for smaller guilds or beginner players in small guilds to optimize use and growth was voiced, but consideration was also given to the potential concerns or frustrations of the work and effort put in by larger and higher level guilds.
Greetings folks! Chris apologizes for the delay in the proposal but we've begun discussing the next topic which we think will be of great interest to many of you. We are hoping to make Rewards and Progression the next focused topic for the CDP!
Stay tuned for more developments as we wrap up Topic #1 and continue on with some more great discussions!
Comments
Kegsondeck addresses one of the issues I've talked about in my post. In my opinion an item level restriction is not as effective in the grand scheme of things, but is far simpler to implement and also has absolutely zero risks to it. It is endgame after all and players should be informed about that fact. Maybe around 20-21k, similar to LOMM.
2. Balance across paragons and roles
Cannot ever be perfect, but could sure be improved, e.g. a certain class has a huge advantage over any other in single target damage (TOMM). I don't really play any other PvE but I would be surprised if there weren't any similar problems in multi target scenarios. Balancing should also take PvP into consideration.
3. Rewards
Rebalancing rewards throughout the game, most importantly in queued content. This should also include PvP rewards per match.
1.) Multiple Tiers of Dungeons and Skirmishes, along with rewards that match the difficulty.
2.) Clearer path for new players via an option from Sgt. Knox - What should I be doing?
3.) Better rewards across all content that is updated to meet player progression i.e. Why do we get green insignia's from doing the opening quest lines in each zone of SKT campaign?
1. Story/Solo version for all dungeons and trials;
2. Accurate tooltips and at the same time feats/powers working as described;
3. Better accessibility for players with disability.
Introduce unique and proper rewards for the dungeons. That would make all content worth running. (for example: remove the daily reward of AD and introduce a weekly reward for every dungeon. That way the people(like me) that only have a couple of hours on the weekend to play could grind out the dungeons and still keep up).
Also, remove the rewards(incentive) for end game players to run leveling dungeons. Its awful for new players to get in to a dungeon run just to see the group to take off and never to be seen until the boss fights (if you don't get kicked before that). I know for a fact that my son gave up playing this game because he could not keep up in the dungeons and was kicked one to many times.
2. Content
Bring back the tales of old dungeons permanently, introduce more tiers to existing dungeons, introduce the "tarokka" cards for dungeons, etc. Do one thing or all of the above but more content is really requested by pretty much everyone.
3. Keep gear valid
Don't make the hard earned gear and rewards we pick up obsolete with every new mod. Its really frustrating to finally get that hard earned piece of a weapon set or artifact just to start chasing a new one before its even upgraded yet (it happened more times than I can count). Someone suggested to introduce upgrade kits that could be made with professions or mastercrafting. That is really interesting to me and the ingedients for upgrades could be found as rewards (see fist point) in the dungeones.
Thank you and good luck
This would be a great way to enhance dungeon rewards, allow players to manage their own difficulty, open a progression system for earning better rewards from the same dungeons, as well as open revenue opportunities for "cards".
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"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
Should / Could the in-game info be improved?
Yeah, a lot, been writing about this for ages, especially in terms of accuracy and clarity.
Is it a real show stopper for players?
I don't think so, the game is forgiving enough in most content (I'll get to this), allows trial and error, and there is crapton of info around, and I'm not talking about "complicated boring math", but simple "get X stat, put Y feat, and you good to go"
Also in part, asking for the information, posting, replying, are part of a live community, and its interaction, it is a fine balance
On the opposite side, no matter how much information is provided, there will be always issues, just some time ago, no worries posted that the new dungeon will be easier despite the higher counter ratings and few days after:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1253428/mod-18-will-force-players-to-leave-game
If a person wants to look something that even available in-game, or dev blog, or few clicks away somewhere or ask in chat, becomes a question of do they want to bother? A question of motivation. (And not the nitty gritty theory crafting but the simpler things)
Difficulty tiers of the same content? (Or difficulty modifiers, like cards)
IMO, this idea is much more complicated than the easy solution is seem to provide. On the simple way of "same content, easier variants, with lower reward" (aka ndemo, vs edemo) etc. IMO it will just fails to solve the issue, and creates more instead.
Will a person run a 100+ runs of a "baby" version and then 100+ of the beefed up one? I highly doubt it. Will having the same thing but at different difficulties impede players personal progress? IMO yes, what is the motivation to gear up if all you get is the same..
Such solution will require the different tiers to be significantly different to motivate people to unlock them, and do them. But different content we do have, and even that is just not utilized enough. I've tried other games who scaled content in such way, and it took the proper ecosystem for it to work, something NW doesn't have.
And this brings to the bottom line, motivation, the main issue imo. Is there motivation to do Castle Ravneloft for example? PvP? Or most of the content that already in the game..
Many players do have it accessible, or the path to that accessibility is simple enough, but they want to invest the time, effort, or even if it is 0 investment, do the content anyway?
Seems to me that in most cases, the answer is NO.
IMO the main thing for accessibility will be clearer linear progress without steep jumps (for the majority of the player-base) combined with similar learning curve, if it is per content piece or on the micro level, or classes, general mechanics, and so on on the macro level.
On the flip side of accessibility will be what I've described before, and it is motivation, and not only in terms of rewards. The whole concept needs to motivate player to do content, improve their char, their understanding of the game, unlock more, and do it.
Simply better rewards will help, but they are not the whole solution. Which too need a whole concept rework.
Even looking at m18 dungeon, which for many is 100% accessible, the question will be will they run it more than a token number of times or beyond helping others? Unlikely. And creating pitifully low rng for marginally better item usually doesn't help, and creates a "Won't even bother" mentality.
And btw, mentality and how content is perceived, its image, has a lot to do with it, but I've rambled enough.
FBI gear, I gave up on that after never getting it to drop after months. That was one of the last mods I hardcore grinded content for a drop.
Barovia weapons? Did anyone even bother with them? There's a lot of weapon sets that have limited value so why bother with them.
From the sounds of the M18 dungeon, I'll go in there and do it and tuck it away in the LoMM corner. The dark corner where no good rewards exist so why bother going there.
I left as soon as Underdark started. I had a big project I was working on that came up, but I was also tired of the game.
So tired.
It was the same BS over and over again. The changes that came with Elemental Evil polarized the community. Let's face it, it sucked. It was BAD design and people were incredibly pissed about it.
The Devs didn't listen. "Everything is working as intended."
Only a few months later, did they finally admit it was a flawed and failed design, so they implemented changes, but by then, the damage was done. In my Guild alone, we lost about 20% of the active player-base. They moved on to ESO or something else.
This right here, speaks volumes. I've never run FBI, or TONG, or CODG and why should I? There's nothing of value there for me and I'm still playing catch up on boons, but is there even value in that?
The Cloaked Ascendancy - a long and arduous grind for a couple of boons? - No thanks.
Sea of Moving Ice - another long and arduous grind for a couple of boons? - No thanks.
Now, I DID come back for Ravenloft. I mean, it's Ravenloft! I used the gear I got there, since I was basically still running Castle Never equipment on all of my toons. Then, I finished it on my main. Talk about a complete letdown. What a lame ending to an epic story.
Castle Ravenloft - a buggy mess that still isn't fixed for equipment that's now worthless? - No thanks.
I won't even get into Acquistions Incorporated. I'll never finish it. I've only made it as far as I have simply for 1) the Heart of Fire enchant and 2) the fact I can turn OFF the sound and not have to listen to any of those annoying characters ever. I didn't find it remotely humorous, enticing or engaging. In fact, I don't feel it was even relevant to Neverwinter. It doesn't belong in the game. It was a waste of resources.
I will never do the Bank Heist on principle.
Ah Mod 18......
Let's be honest, it's Mod 17. "Uprising" wasn't a mod. It was a repackaged Mod 16. More like Mod16.25
Now, this is the point, where my post is probably going to end up in the Lower Depths, but it needs to be said.
I'm a developer. I work primarily as a character modeling, rigger, animator and also an environmental artist. I've worked at BioWare, Netherrealms Studios and a couple of other smaller dev groups. I've worked on 4 or 5 major projects and have my named tacked to over a dozen indie/mobile games.
Mod "17" consisted of the SAME maps from Mod 16, save, what, two? It used the same Cryptic Engine (I don't know your internal name for your engine) Mob Spawners in the same places as the maps in Mod 16. You didn't even bother to scale them up to match the Mod. They're using the same stats from Mod16, but you ADDED Mob Spawners for the Gith/Illithid mobs, that WERE scaled to Mod 17 content. You even left the Scrying Stone placeables where they were, but just disabled them.
Master Expeditions? Well, the only thing you did there was remove the runic placeables and change the Boss Spawner to either a Gith or an Ilithid. All of the trash mobs were using the same Mob Spawners as before, again not updated to the Mod 17 stat caps.
Even the Gith race isn't an incentive. As a character artist, I KNOW you're using the same base model for your humanoid models. It's under 20k in polys, already been through retopology for better sculpting and animations, paint-weighted and UV-mapped for quick texturing in Substance Painter or something similar. All of this is done in Maya, as you're using morph targets for customization and they all have the SAME morph target sliders, which also means any new equipment made will match up perfectly (Except for the head) with every race. Rigging new models is nothing, 'cos they all have the same paint-weights, are all the same poly count and use the same, generic rig, which is probably weighted via Mel Scripting and pre-saved paint-weights, so it requires little to no maintenance from your rigger. In fact, the longest part of this process is the ZBrush sculpt.
Now, this is fast and efficient. How do I know? Cos I use the exact same pipeline when I need to do character modeling.
Anyway, back to topic:
I actually played Mod18 on Preview. You know what my first thought was?
"Wow.....they used the Stronghold map with a reskin again."
Let that sink in. What I noticed, wasn't game play, or story.
It was the fact that you used the same map over again.......
* * *
In short, as a consumer and a player, I don't have a lot of faith in development at Cryptic. Mod 16 was NOT asked for and is a train wreck. DPS balance is WAY off by the admittance of a Developer for using 2 different formulae to calculate damage, but it's "Working as intended." Again, it took months to admit it wasn't function as intended.
I get the stat/counter-stat issue and how it was necessitated, due to power creep, but the "all or nothing" approach with some stats, as opposed to others, is a failure. Even if I don't hit cap, the points I DO have should work in my favor, but it's either 100% or Zero. By doing this, you've basically devalued every single 3 stat enchant out there, since it's no longer favorable to point spread. If you can't hit cap, you sink it into HP or Power. For new players, it's virtually impossible to hit stat caps, except for the Dynamic Duo of Arm Pen and Crit. A lot of people got screwed over by this, if they invested in 3-stat enchants, since before Mod 16 point spread was important, but now it's a waste, if you can't hit the cap. Go look at the pathetic price a Rank 10 Black Ice is on the Auction House, compared to a Rank 10 Radiant or Dark.
The stat changes were useless and served no purpose, other than solidify that into a single excel sheet, instead of one per Class.
I have a Tiefling Warlock who is automatically at a disadvantage for taking +2 Con, which was the original primary stat for Warlocks, so she could maximize her damage output. Even the HP bonus is a joke, 'cos it should be based off the TOTAL sum of HP (for Tanks, mainly) instead of BASE.
I have a Dwarf Arbiter who is automatically at a disadvantage for taking +2 Wis, which was the original primary stat for Clerics, so he could maximize his damage output. Now, it's based off Int. Oh, it's great for a Healer, but I don't want to play one.
I have a Tiefling Paladin who is at a SEVERE disadvantage, 'cos he has a 9 Str and At-Wills are Strength-based damage, his Encounters dailies are magical-based Int damage, but it was originally based off Wis.
NONE of these toon, or ANYONE'S toons got an Attribute re-roll token after you hard-coded Attribute stats. Basically, if you made a toon pre-Mod16, tough HAMSTER and deal with it, if the changes cripple your toon.
As developers, Cryptic needs to grow a thicker skin. Ask anyone that's been round since 2013 and we can give you a list as long as our arms of screw ups, mistakes, blatant disregard for the player-base, exploits, etc. We are GOING to be critical.
But......
We're still HERE.
If you want to make money, you HAVE to make us happy. Own your mistakes. Listen to your player base. QA your development BEFORE it gets to Preview.
But most of all take some PRIDE in your work.
Quick reminder to please stay on topic for this phase. If it looks like we are at the conclusion of this phase then we will close the thread in preparation for the summary and proposal at which time the thread will be opened again for any refining of the proposal. I will check back later.
Chris
1. Normal and master versions of new and difficult content. But, if you don't do this, then please AT LEAST give players somewhere to practice the mechanics of new and difficult dungeons outside of the dungeon itself. Example: CODG push/pull, most LOMM mechanics, all of TOMM. For example: the end boss for a 3-rune Master Expedition could be Halaster's Apprentice, who does a scaled down version of one of the elemental phases in TOMM. Or, it could be Arcturia's Sister, who does a scaled down version of the first boss fight (including cocoon phase) in LOMM. We'd then get to at least SEE the mechanics and PRACTICE them with a 5-person party in a lower-risk setting.
2. When you distribute a new mod, please give something *meaningful* to all of the different types of players (hardcore end-gamers, casual players, PVPers, roleplayers/fashionistas, etc.) It doesn't have to be EQUALLY meaningful to all groups, but it should be meaningful enough. What left a bitter taste in a lot of people's mouths about Mod 17 is that it seemed as if you only catered to the hardcore end-gamers, and gave very little to everyone else. I am frankly sick of Master Expeditions after having nothing to do but ME's (and the occasional LOMM) for 2 mods straight now.
3. Please create a shared bank tab for crafting materials. It is really annoying to have to email crafting materials back and forth between all my characters on my account.
While it is true that the boons really don't add much to your character individually, as a whole, if you have them all, it does, sorta, but you could have no boons, and be geared, and run everything, so yeah.
Also, I think leveling should take much more time, like at least 2+ months of grinding, not 2 days. And getting almost all the boons in a week, is a joke. It should take much longer. If it did take a lot longer, older content would be more viable. People would have to use older gear for longer, which would make it more valuable, which would make older content worth running for end gamers. Some might not agree, but I'm just typing as I think, so sorry if it's a little cluttered, I hope you get the idea.
I didn't really enjoy the barovian hunts. we started getting too close to participation trophies there for my liking and the rewards were in the meh category. as long as I could make ad I kept doing the chultan hunts right thru the barovian ones. I barely touched hunts in barovia. I enjoy new dungeons with some challenge and some kind of rare carrot to chase that I can use and make a profit off of. the barovian dungeon was awesome at first. those sweet sweet shards of prominence. as it moves more towards participation trophies grinding for stuff has become unrewarding.
I dislike that pc gets to do and learn all the things before we get it. we never have that chance of discovery of figuring out mechanics. already have to follow guides. there are times I do appreciate not having to do the frustrating parts myself.. but really it's a disappointment for the console. One of my best gaming experiences was in destiny with the croata raid. we were in there for hours figuring it out. it was a lot of fun. we spent like 24 hours straight in there (small guild of like 15 people we traded out as people came online. finally got it done. it was a huge feeling of accomplishment. I may be off on the time spent but I remember going sleepless over it) that's something console will never have. even now with never being able to do it first the accomplishment of being first on console was ripped away by a pc gamer coming over to console. it bites.
when i first started this game I didn't enjoy the opening quests but after some reading figured out there was more to it and the rest of the game was very different. so I pushed thru. if I had thought the whole game was going to be like the opening missions I'd not have stuck around. when i first started well of dragons was still the new hotness. I spent about 2 months doing nothing but farming dragon runs for neck and waist pieces and doing tia. I really enjoyed that part of it.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
1a - Item Level requirements for Epic Random Dungeon/Random Trial Queue - raise all requirements by 10% at least to make them a little less painful. Malabog is a great example of how a relatively low item level DPS can get in an Epic and make almost no difference.
[I bunched the two above together as they are so interwoven]
2 - Revamp Rewards for all Random Queues - get rid of meaningless stuff and put in MOPs and Enchanting Stones OR currency similar to Legacy so we can grind out the MOPs and Enchanting Stones we need to give us a real sense of progression.
3 - Rewrite/analyse all the tool tips so they all are correct and all make sense
2. Rewards; what was pointed out already + looking closely at indivdual dungeon rewards since everything that isn't new or RQ is not interesting now. Imo: a Pool of possible rewards connected (no matter how old the dungeon it deserves relevant rewards depending on difficulty) to the tier/difficulty of the dungeon and/or tarokka-card-system (I really like this idea, but thats just me, I love barovia hunt system)
3. Tier Versions of Dungeons (or story versions, solo versions, introduction of mechanics earlier like others posted (if it has an impact and is unskipable in the campaign/quest situation it is a part of AND explained in a way similar to CN), closely associated with 2.
> (Quote)
> you are the only person I've ever talked to who said something like that. just sayin is all. for me the fun is in the newer content. I am goal oriented. grinding for something with a purpose is fun. I like chasing carrots. i also like making ad. I enjoyed fishing (yeah I know it's just me there) I enjoyed the chultan hunts. fishing and chult are what allowed me to go from casual to end game. I spent my time farming and trading and was able to trade up in gear to be viable to go on and be one of the first waves to complete the barovian dungeon and trade up even more from that.
>
> I didn't really enjoy the barovian hunts. we started getting too close to participation trophies there for my liking and the rewards were in the meh category. as long as I could make ad I kept doing the chultan hunts right thru the barovian ones. I barely touched hunts in barovia. I enjoy new dungeons with some challenge and some kind of rare carrot to chase that I can use and make a profit off of. the barovian dungeon was awesome at first. those sweet sweet shards of prominence. as it moves more towards participation trophies grinding for stuff has become unrewarding.
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> I dislike that pc gets to do and learn all the things before we get it. we never have that chance of discovery of figuring out mechanics. already have to follow guides. there are times I do appreciate not having to do the frustrating parts myself.. but really it's a disappointment for the console. One of my best gaming experiences was in destiny with the croata raid. we were in there for hours figuring it out. it was a lot of fun. we spent like 24 hours straight in there (small guild of like 15 people we traded out as people came online. finally got it done. it was a huge feeling of accomplishment. I may be off on the time spent but I remember going sleepless over it) that's something console will never have. even now with never being able to do it first the accomplishment of being first on console was ripped away by a pc gamer coming over to console. it bites.
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> when i first started this game I didn't enjoy the opening quests but after some reading figured out there was more to it and the rest of the game was very different. so I pushed thru. if I had thought the whole game was going to be like the opening missions I'd not have stuck around. when i first started well of dragons was still the new hotness. I spent about 2 months doing nothing but farming dragon runs for neck and waist pieces and doing tia. I really enjoyed that part of it.
I am another one who absolutely enjoyed the first leveling. It was awesome. Moving from one burial mound in Ebon Downs and trying to understand the whole story behind was great. Same for Vellosk and Icespire. There are many types of players and to some exploration is an interesting part. That's why I hate the idea of infinite dungeons, the story becomes useless. It's the difference between playing Baldur's Gate and a Rogue-like game.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
EDIT: Thread will re-open for a short time for additional comments when proposal is posted on Wednesday.
CDP – Topic #1 Summary
Background
For the inaugural CDP topic, players were asked for their thoughts on the accessibility of Neverwinter in regards to the different types of players (hardcore, casual, veteran, beginner) and the difficulty and ease of content. Note: This CDP discussion did not include accessibility for disabilities or impairments as that is intended for its own separate topic. The topic thread spanned 13 pages with a total of 388 replies and 9,087 views.Discussion Summary
The following major themes emerged from the comments:Multiple versions of game content (dungeons/skirmishes/trials)
One of the most popular pieces of feedback was a need for different difficulty versions of the same content, specifically dungeons, skirmishes, and trials. While players differed slightly in their approach regarding scope, how many tiers, and how to adjust the difficulty, there was a general consensus regarding the value of the different versions in regards to accessibility. Having this option would allow both hardcore and casual players to experience content, provide a learning/training area, and allow for flexibility in party/class setup and requirements to successfully complete the content.
In-game learning and information resources
Expanding upon the “learning/training” aspect of multiple dungeons was another popular request for more in-depth information availability within the game. Hardcore players conceded that casual and new players were at a strong disadvantage in regards to understanding the complexities of stats, builds, and other progression-related features in the game. While the immediate benefit would seemingly be for newer or casual players, this is actually seen as a boon to veteran and hardcore players since it would reduce the amount of “live training” inconvenience they would have to do when queued with less experienced players.
Engagement motivators
Long-time players strongly emphasized the need for motivators or drivers to return to the game on a consistent basis. The vastness and richness of Neverwinter systems and contents is viewed as underutilized; newer or leveling players still have a “reach max level” goal or content to run through. Masterwork professions, older dungeons, campaigns, achievements, and more were mentioned as areas of the game that would revitalize engagement or drive motivation.
Bonus theme: Scaling
A final theme that was voiced across a large portion of the feedback was the impact of scaling. There continues to exist differing opinions on scaling, ranging from whether it should even exist to how it should be utilized but a common element is that long-term players should not be punished for their progression. Hardcore players want to feel the positive impact of their efforts in their gear, their refinement, their builds, etc. While this may seemingly be at odds with a continuous desire for challenging content, they key element is providing challenge in end-game/new content while not making older content punitive to hardcore players.
Secondary themes
Among the core themes there also emerged some tangentially related topics that merit mention. A strong emphasis was made on Rewards and Loot Tables across the major themes. Having different tiers of dungeons would require different rewards. Having educational resources in game about the different rewards would allow newer players to better understand their viability or provide guidance in content directive. And, finally, making rewards sufficiently motivating for players to engage with content.
A secondary theme that emerged was the impact of Strongholds and guilds across the different player types. Guilds provide resources and support, with smaller guilds being more populated by casual players which in turn means less resources and support. Support for providing mechanisms for smaller guilds or beginner players in small guilds to optimize use and growth was voiced, but consideration was also given to the potential concerns or frustrations of the work and effort put in by larger and higher level guilds.
Stay tuned for more developments as we wrap up Topic #1 and continue on with some more great discussions!