Feedback Overview I would like to propose having a “barracks” of shared companions available on an account for both existing and future characters.
Feedback goal I believe this will reduce redundancy of companions across an account and open the possibility of quickly being able to slot any companion from the shared barracks. If a new or existing player decided they had not found the right class for them during levelling, any companions they had acquired from any source would be available for another character on that account.
Feedback Functionality Using the existing UI, a player would be able to choose any companion to assign to the appropriate slot type available on that class from the shared barracks. Companions would still be able to be upgraded in the same fashion and those companions would be accessible on the account.
Risks & Concerns As a consumer of the product none, in fact – I think I would probably look to upgrade other companions.
History I recently had in it mind to create a fighter as I actually enjoy tanking and wanted to see how it felt using another class. It quickly became apparent that I would need to be levelling up another set of companions. This felt a little bit disheartening as I already have several legendary companions on my Paladin. Of course, then I realised why I wouldn’t be using the Paladin for anything other than a tank as I am already in the process of upgrading outgoing healing companions for my Warlock!
This post mainly addresses the accessibility of PvP for newer players in terms of gear/general character power requirement. I will also touch on the viability of PvP as an alternate path through the game, reward incentives and history.
Feedback Goal
The goal of this feedback is to give suggestions that could improve the PvP experience for newcomers and thus lead to an increase in PvP population, which at the moment is rather low. Increase in population subsequently leads to improved matchmaking, better queue times and better competition. Additionally, there would be an improvement in the "economic" viability of PvP.
Feedback Functionality
Power gap
PvP right now has many issues. One of the biggest ones is the fact that if a new player joins a PvP match, the experience will be absolutely horrible for them (even without the inevitable kick coming their way). Knowledge and skill play some role in this, however, the majority comes down to power gap, i.e. worse gear, not enough boons, low level guild boons and so on. This is worsened by the current meta (I discuss this in a separate post in the PvP section of the forums), where those new players are unable to contribute in any way as BiS players easily outheal their damage and are able to kill in one or two shots. That is also something that should be prioritized.
Ignoring meta factors for now, the cause of this is power creep. We can easily see its effects throughout the history of PvP in the game. With every major "gear upgrade" (e.g. artifact gear, more artifact slots, mythic artifacts, higher level enchantments, guild boons, insignias, legendary mounts and their powers, or even just more boon points and higher level gear) PvP lost a part of its population. Note that some of those things are available exclusively via PvE, others can be bought with (often extremely high amounts of) AD.
There was once a time when a best in slot character had rank 10 enchantments, perfect weapon/armor enchantments and a legendary active artifact. That was a time where if you queued up for PvP with rank 7 enchantments and maybe greater weapon/armor enchantments, you could easily pull your weight, even beat BiS characters given enough skill. Those things that you really needed were reasonably easy to get and allowed you to compete. Today to be at a similar level relatively speaking, you have to be geared with rank 13 enchantments including weapon and armor, have all mythic artifacts, all legendary artifact gear, at least epic insignias and hopefully a good legendary mount for the active, perhaps an epic one for the passive power. Acquiring all of this is incomparably more difficult.
At least three solutions exist for this problem, each of which would probably work best alone; they cannot be combined too much. One of them is scaling in some form, the other is disabling parts of power creep (e.g. companions are and for the most part have been disabled in PvP), and finally there is PvP-specific gear (enchantments, insignias and so on to cover all areas).
Scaling
Scaling is a big topic in the game right now that has however been having severe issues. Some form could be implemented in PvP making it so that there is still difference between BiS and a lower geared player, but its much smaller to the point where the lower geared player can threaten the BiS one. Because of what we have seen with scaling in PvE, one would have to be extremely careful with its implementation in the very brittle PvP environment.
Disabling parts of power creep
A surely controversial move that would attempt to make PvP more similar to what it was in the past. Removing insignias and mount bonuses is a good start, along with guild boons that were so detrimental to PvP.
PvP-specific gear
Based on a mechanic that already exists in the game, the strategy here would be to introduce PvP-only items (e.g. enchantments) for sale at the PvP vendors for AD or glory. Those items would have an insignificant item level in PvE, but work at their full strength in PvP (right now, there is the Imperator gear with item level 40 in PvE, 960 in PvP, purchasable with AD). This could translate into something like an enchantment functioning like a rank 7 in PvE, but like a rank 14 in PvP, or an insignia working as rare in PvE, upgrading into epic or legendary in PvP.
Rewards and contribution to character progression
As mentioned above, most of the items used in PvP come from PvE. This doesn't seem very logical (or fair), though at least it somewhat lessens the amount of changes needed to adjust a PvE character for PvP. The major problem here comes from the fact that PvP itself doesn't offer almost anything in terms of character progression or rewards. In M17, this has been addressed with the addition of PvP Seasons, unfortunately the reward versus time invested ratio is woefully inadequate, especially taking into account that PvP is far more demanding of the player than any PvE content.
PvP should offer rewards per match separately from the seasonal rewards. Those should only be awarded for wins and should for example consist of RP, guild vouchers and campaign currency. Gear normally received from PvE content could also be included, with everything being account bound.
At various points, players had to grind PvE very hard to get the builds they needed – some examples of this are: black ice bracers in M3 gated by the horrible RNG of heroic encounters, resources for strongholds and the dreaded guild boons, the restoration based gear like trailblazer, primal and exalted weapons, and most recently TOMM weapons. As there was no way to (even partially) acquire those via PvP, PvP players often got frustrated and left the game. The worst moment was M7 with the aforementioned strongholds and their boons which had insane power – and required an insane amount of resources, even time gated ones like influence. This single handedly wiped out most of the PvP guilds (they were smallish with players that disliked PvE) and turned others to ghost towns.
Risks & Concerns
Some of these changes could initially be poorly received because they in fact take away some progress, diminish hard work put into characters. I doubt however that in the long term this would be an issue. Moreover, the implementation of some of these changes requires resources and investment from the developers. I do believe regardless that for the accessibility topic even with rewards, half of one module is enough to address everything.
Finally, I would like to point out how long PvP has survived in a fairly healthy state with almost no attention and no updates (or sometimes changes for the worse). PvP is a self-sustaining environment that if set up well, requires little maintenance (as we have seen in this game) and will continue to live on just through competition. For many, good PvP is the true endgame – after all, scripted encounters with mobs will never compare to fighting real, thinking players.
the problem with pvp historically is that it is not separate from pve in build. either there has to be an entirely separate pvp area, with separate builds and feats and what not or pvp should just be axed from the game. PVE has to be the main focus. it's what 99.9 percent of the player base is interested in. pve breaks pvp and pvp breaks pve. imo when you have such vastly different skills and what not, healers and tanks there is no way to properly balance a pvp experience. the only way it's going to work is if you let everyone go in as level 1 with level 1 abilities.
IMO focusing on pvp at all is a waste of time and effort. there are so many games doing it better. that's not what a game like this is about anyway.
I love How you state and "claim" to "know" that 99.9% of the player base is only interested pve half the games revenue used to come from pvp player fyi..maybe the new producer can look into this .. he also did guild wars 2 which also does pvp well so I imagine he has some clue
what mod did you start playing ?
there were no such thing as "pvp" / pve players in the earlier mods you probably were not there to witness it therefore make false biased claims ..
the Pvp queue would pop in seconds and there was 1000+ leader board pages ! that would mean 20,00 + pvp players on pc alone
most players were both types and farmed pve gear for pvp in the earlier mods before crazy power creep and lack of balancing kicked in
why did the devs develop a whole mod(mod 9 ) based on Pvp strongholds if 99.9% of player base did not pvp lol ? it was not lack in player interest it was neglect that reduced its numbers as the mods went on . there is still a mod 9 playtest section in the forum with thousands of posts in it comprising of more then .1 % of the population ( you claimed 99.9 dont pvp ).. also considering most players do not post and did not get invited to the mod 9 playtest
the pvp dev (available in discord chat )does want to do a Pvp based progression campaign where everyone earns their gear and starts at level 1 so that idea of your makes some sense ..
Hi Kalina,
Maybe we will do a PVP thread next. Perhaps one of the designers could help me with it.
I think the new player has a very lonely experience. We cant access guilds because we cant message or chat. When i play an mmorpg type game i do so with the idea that i am joining a world full of other players to interact with. Having to play solo for 30 levels before i can even ask to join a guild is a major turnoff. I would hope you can relax the chat restrictions in the future, so that new players like me can interact with others and join a guild. Thats part of the mmo experience, if i wanted to play solo i would go back to my single player games. I just started last night, im on the fence if im going to stay or not. Not being able to interact with players at all is a big downer.
Hi Roxie,
I totally agree and thanks for posting. We 100% need to look at how we handle anti spam, farmer systems in regard to new players. Even the messaging around what is required to unlock full functionality is confusing.
Good luck and kudos for doing something that should have been done years ago.
I haven't read the whole thread but in the first few pages there are enough suggestions that if implemented I might be tempted to put some time and energy back into the game. But as others have said, you have a lot of work ahead of you if you actually want to win back the trust of the player base. Again, good luck.
I know it's too late but others have covered the game content points I would like to see implemented. But I see something more important than that here and wanted to communicate it.
Feedback Overview:
Keep the communication levels high so the community continues to support and give feedback.
If you want to see what happens to an ignored player base have a look at the many many many warlock (and others) feedback/suggestion threads on the preview forum. They start out full of positivity, positive feedback and suggestions. After a while though it degenerates into an 'Are they even listening?' discussion followed by 'they don't give a rat's **** about the players' which translates into players spending less time (and of course money) in game. Until you get the folks like me that moved on, but keep an eye on what is happening - in case it actually gets better. But some, well, they're gone for good.
Feedback Goal: Simple, help win back the player base.
Feedback Functionality:
A continual and unbroken line of communication with the player base will build loyalty to the game that can't easily be expressed. That increased loyalty to the game will increase retention rates - even in those casual players that haven't invested time or money in the game. Simply by having a strong community that is passionate about the game they play. I was one and helped many many players over the last three years, from teaching dungeon mechanics to helping explain why all these high level players are still wearing lower level items (Demon Lord set). Some of the people I helped as new players are Senior Guild Officers in their own right and are doing what I used to do. But they have become less and less.
For me and others like me, that lack of communication was actually worse than all the bugged content and ridiculous 'balance/design' changes.
I could have switched main classes, but why? 'The devs don't care about any of the players' That is what silence communicates to us.
I was a senior officer in our alliance, we had only three guilds that weren't level 20. Participation rates that were awesome - more than 150 members active in a 30 day period for 9 or 10 of our guilds. I found out this morning that only 3 of our guilds now have more than 100 members active in that 30 day period. That is a huge loss. An unnecessary loss.
Keeping the communication between devs and players high will help prevent these losses in the future.
Case in point: Scaling, recently a dev mentioned that one of the actual goals with scaling was to have players with stats at end game caps to get scaled down to the ceiling of what ever zone or area they were going into. That is a hugely important datum. Hugely important. Important to the players. Many players have left because they don't like (read as hate) being scaled to below cap in zones they should by rights be able to stomp their way through without breaking a sweat. Knowing that datum above would have taken some of the hatred out of scaling. It would still be disliked but at least you would know that it is only temporary.
Risks:
Minor: You'll get trolls and idiots attacking you or throwing BS ideas out there to confuse and upset others. Major: You get caught up in the existing problems and demands at Cryptic and can't keep this format of feedback and input going. Major: Your ideas on open communication get hammered by company executives because they aren't what they want to hear or see from you (or us).
All the best,
Angels
Thanks Angel,
We will do our very best. Not everyone will be happy all the time but we will at the very least be on a shared journey as we evolve the game moving forward and we intend to be as transparent as possible.
Feedback Overview I would like to propose having a “barracks” of shared companions available on an account for both existing and future characters.
Feedback goal I believe this will reduce redundancy of companions across an account and open the possibility of quickly being able to slot any companion from the shared barracks. If a new or existing player decided they had not found the right class for them during levelling, any companions they had acquired from any source would be available for another character on that account.
Feedback Functionality Using the existing UI, a player would be able to choose any companion to assign to the appropriate slot type available on that class from the shared barracks. Companions would still be able to be upgraded in the same fashion and those companions would be accessible on the account.
Risks & Concerns As a consumer of the product none, in fact – I think I would probably look to upgrade other companions.
History I recently had in it mind to create a fighter as I actually enjoy tanking and wanted to see how it felt using another class. It quickly became apparent that I would need to be levelling up another set of companions. This felt a little bit disheartening as I already have several legendary companions on my Paladin. Of course, then I realised why I wouldn’t be using the Paladin for anything other than a tank as I am already in the process of upgrading outgoing healing companions for my Warlock!
Thanks Black
Cool idea Blackmagid.
Chris
the down side of this is economics. it would destroy the in-game companion market. we've had many economic collapses in the last year and a half. many things that once held value are now valueless. enchantments and artifacts once had value and were a big part of how people made ad in game to afford more upgrades for other things. you needed same type enchantments for a bonus rp on refining enchantments higher. this made it so all low enchantments had a maintained value and it was upped during 2x refinement. artifacts required a same type artifact to upgrade for a cheaper bonus. this kept a minimum value on artifacts. since these processes were streamlined these things have lost all value on the market except for rare circumstances with the newest gear. what stepped up to take it's place was companions. many people invest in comps and resell to make money to buy other things in game. the above suggestion would wipe this market out as people use many characters. Mounts are another thing that has currently held some value. a similar stable would also wipe out the value. something like an unbind token to account.. that came at a price or could be rarely earned in a certain dungeon would probably not wipe out the market. If something like this happened at the same time something else should be created that would envigor another market so people could continue to find ways to make ad. the other ad making venture that has been killed is Master crafting. people could make ad by doing double refinement and selling to master crafters and master crafters made money by having desirable items to make. currently that's all gone. doing ques to make ad is basically inconsequential. if the companion market were to be decimated there would basically be no good ways of making ad anywhere left in game. it is definitely a matter of inclusivity because this is one of the only efficient ways players can make ad to level up with gear.
Color-blind players need to be able to change colors in games, particularly where red = bad, green = good.
Feedback Functionality
My husband is color-blind. He has had a great deal of trouble in the past, particularly with seeing red splats on the ground when the ground is a green shade. I believe the biggest issue he had with it was back in Mod 4 & 5, when the dragon in Ebon Downs does their powers, but there have been several times since then. I think adding a color wheel or something similar would benefit color-blind players, regardless of which form of the color-blindness the player has.
Risks & Concerns
I can't really think of many risks to adding a color-wheel or similar method to change game colors on the screen, but I'm open to feedback. I wasn't really sure if this was appropriate feedback for this discussion, but since accessibility was mentioned, I felt it was worth mentioning.
ALL THE ABOVE.
The Tyrs Paladium guild and our Neverwinter Alliance are active supporters of the Able Gamers Foundation.
Perhaps as the new Boss Chris, you can find our work in this area inspirational. There are tens of MILLIONS of gamers that need the developers attention, and Neverwinter should be taking a bigger bite out of this apple.
This is truly YOUR CHANCE to make Neverwinter for EVERYONE.
I am fully up to date. I would like to apologize for not being more responsive but we wanted to get the first CDP started prior to 2020 because every time we do one we will not only learn more, and evolve the game together but we will also get more experience working together, communicating, problem solving and pioneering faster. We will then be able to on-board new members to the CDP more easily as word spreads.
This said the thread thus far has been pretty good and has been without doubt useful. However I should have moved us to the next stage of the CDP on about page 8.
So for the next and final stage prior to the CDP Accessibility proposal is to list what you feel are the top three ideas that have been raised so far in thread (They can be high level and micro ideas for example High Level: Multiple Types of the same dungeon or Micro: An option that allows you to change 'Telegraph' FX colours palette). Feel free to add your thoughts around them as well. We will let this run for a few days and then I will put a proposal forward on behalf of the CDP that you can all critique before it is handed of to the team.
Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts.
Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback): Decrease the grind of character development within Guild, Boon and Campaign Progressions... by getting all rewards at once... Possibly separate Story Campaign from Boons. Reduce the grind for all casual and hardcore players.... Add Dragon Shard system to create Marks.
Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish): Character development combined into one end reward. Providing guild, gear, boon and campaign progression during quest rewards. An example of my week, one day grinding guild vouchers, another completing character boon story line progression, another grinding AD from Randoms. Another day grinding gear, refining stones etc. Help casual and hardcore players a like by making one grind, not many separate grinds.
Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter): Adding Guild Vouchers, Campaign Currency for Boon and Dragonshards that can be combined to provide Refining Marks in every quest end reward. Adding System to create Marks Rank (4, 5,6) by Combining certain amount of lower Marks. I should be able to run any quest and get all based on which Random, Dungeon, Trial or Skirmish.
Possibly separate Story campaign from Boon progression? Make Story campaign account based and Boon Character progression by totally removing Boons from Story Campaign. Stop the Grind of completing quests a 100 times before progressing. Complete the Story to unlock Boon progression.
Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum) Always the risk is losing money with all the campaign unlocks. But could still have Boon unlock. New ingredients needed to produce Dragon Shards for creating Marks etc. New bags needed to hold fragment types of Dragon Shards but also new revenue.
THE MYTHIC ARTIFICER (or how to keep alive every artifact set)
Feedback Overview:
Enable the possibility of updating old artifact sets, using the new sets as reagents. Removing the need to review artifacts or nerf old ones.
Feedback Goal:
To keep players happy without wound the Game economy (Devs business) Players can keep their old builds by conserving their artifacts which they will be able to update with the use in the process of the new artifact sets as a reagent requirement. Win-win situation.
Feedback Functionality:
Create a new npc: The Forgemaster, the Mythic Artificer... Call him how you better like. He will be a master crafter able to upgrade artifacts by disrupting the magic of other new artifacts to channel it into the old ones.
For lore meanings, this artificer might be a cursed old great artificer that you may find amid the map of the Nine Hells, adding as a new requirement the need to be level 80 and strong enough like to reach his spot. By opening conversation with him, he will show a list of all old artifact sets that you owned and wanted to upgrade.
The upgrading process may require as refinement reagents (a sample): Consumption of the old set Consumption of one of the new sets by affinity (old dps set may require a dps new set, etc) Consumption of one perfect diamond, 10 blood rubies and X Enchanting Stones, rank 7 (this may include some new reagent found in the new campaign and also being sold in the Zen Store and unbound so that could be sold in Auction Hall) +100 to 1000 Golds to the NPC as payment for his works (whatever was seems as a high but doable payment).
Then, the player will acquire an upgraded version of his vintage artifact set in uncommon quality (requiring again to be refined to upgrade it towards legendary/mythic quality), which will have renewed/upgraded statistics according the IL of the new set used as reagent, but keeping the old special power intact.
Edited: (The new set does not need to be made through a complex coding system, can be a new set that updates stats to the new IL of the current mod and that is give to the player after trade the required reagents)
Sample: To upgrade the Orcus demonic set, you need to have it entire, then to acquire the Wyvern set (at any quality rank) plus 10 Enchanting Stones, rank 6, and 5 rank 7, and 100 gold for the npc payment. Then, the Artificer will reforge the Demonic set into an updated one, boosting the statistics value till 980 IL and keeping untouched the special abilities.
Risks & Concerns:
This, should keep everyone happy and the only issue I can imagine, is the cost going so expensive, but as an alternative to get an old set fall in oblivion or getting nerfed, I cannot imagine a better solve to keep everyone satisfied.
@cwhitesidedev#9752 is there list you already have of topics this thread has brought up? a copy of that might make it easier for us to list the 3 most relevant ideas. maybe start a poll?
Thanks for your posts (And to all the others who have posted in regard to this area of accessibility).
We will have a meeting in the new year and create a post with our thoughts, actions and any questions in the CDP area.
Chris
Oh my thank you SO MUCH for that. Awesome doesn't quite cover it but I'll click it anyway
You and Cryptic deserve serious recognition if you make a move in this direction. Even a meeting means something.
At it's core, it's really "advertising" that money can't buy. What MMO gaming site wouldn't write an article on such a major MMO company making improvements to their game for this cause? This group of gamers in need is a MARKET... there's a lot of people out there that need help. Many of them are playing Neverwinter at this very moment, and many will soon if your meeting turns out fruitful.
To build a bit on what Froger, Mentin, Jules, and others wrote, plus add my own twist and thoughts,
For me part of the accessibility issues is too much access too soon. Less than a week to reach level 80, then grind MEs over and over and over, for a couple of weeks, and you have the IL for, and have access to, everything in the game except LOMM and TOMM, including REQ and RTQ, but no idea how to actually do any of them. There is no real progression to get you there, it's just handed to you with no context. So, some agreements with others and my thoughts:
A clear progression through the campaigns. No time gate for the main story line, and at the end you get one boon. Going back and grinding the dailies would still give you the rest of the boons.
Completing a campaign story line (not time-gated) unlocks the campaign's normal dungeon/skirmish account wide. The normal dungeon is reworked to have ALL the mechanics of the Epic, but easier. (A chance to actually learn the mechanics outside the Epic version.) To ensure these people can find queues, they can get pulled into Randoms by campaign quest line queuing.
Completing the Normal dungeon unlocks the Epic dungeon account wide.
Completing all the relevant dungeons gives you access to the appropriate queue account wide.
Dungeons are level 80, and drop currently relevant gear (Epic better than Normal) as well as campaign currency. Epics can drop some of the ME/WE loot so we don't have to grind this limited content so often and people will want to do the dungeons again, again increasing accessibility.
Yes this slows access the the Random queues by a few/several weeks, but people who have access have learned how the dungeons/skirmishes/trials work. This could lead to fewer private queues, as there would be less frustration from end game players about newer players not knowing the mechanics. This could actually increase accessibility to Random queues.
Part of accessibility is also class balance. E.g. my favorite class is warlock, and when I ask for advice about build, rotations, etc., the most common advice I get is "Choose a different class". I've often heard similar comments about other class paragons as well, if not entire classes (e.g. Arbiter). If people are discouraged from playing what they like because the game is not balanced well, they won't play.
Not being able to chat at low levels has been mentioned, and it does suck. But so does the racism, misogyny, creedism, homophobia, and politics baiting in the chat channels. Lowering the chat level but policing this better might help in your inclusiveness drive.
@sobi#1980 responding to the post directly above mine
I'm probably alone on this one in the forums but I think maybe there are a lot that do agree with me in game, but i HATE the holy trinity. I prefered the way it was with lifesteal, buff/debuff before personally. but a HUGE margin. I don't want to be a healer. I don't want the hate they get if they're doing their job or not. I don't want to be a tank because of the hate they get, whether they are doing their job or not. and I think a lot of people are with me there. it was one of the things that made this particular mmo stick out from the rest in a very good way. now not so much for just so many reasons. it's the reason that heals and tanks are a little harder to come by. like 3% actually LIKE playing those classes. many people actually liked being buff debuff. and as a dps I really dislike depending on heals to heal me. I like playing with other people but I dislike my health being reliant on them.
I'm with you to a certain extent. In the early stages of this game damage was not that heavy compared to the overall hit points of a typical DPS or tank. As a DPS I could rely on potions for my healing most if the time. The healer had less focus on healing and could do other things like pushing enemies or buffing with ease (healer meant Cleric at the time).
Then lifesteal took over and that was bad. I remember groups of 5 DPS steamrolling dungeons because they were able to outheal any damage while dealing massive damage at the same time. And they were even able to do door-to-door pulls. That's the main reason why mod 6 had to do a complete rehaul of the system.
Personally I'd like to go back to the first system, with less damage, less healing and more use of potions. Nowadays only a tank can get a hit from a boss. This means that the strategy in combat is always the same: tank has to get boss' agro. My suggestion to the dev team would be to go back to mod1-mod2 and play the old epic dungeons. That was Neverwinter at its best.
you are one of the few that like being heals apparently. the part of the game you dislike is the part i liked best. potions are no good imo. especially with the cooldowns. lifesteal was awesome. heals pushing enemies is also one of the GREAT banes of dps. as I recall heals would get kicked for that particular sin.
@cwhitesidedev#9752 is there list you already have of topics this thread has brought up? a copy of that might make it easier for us to list the 3 most relevant ideas. maybe start a poll?
Sadly no but honestly the information is most useful from folks who have been reading through.
I know my 3 for example but I don't want to bias anything by posting them currently.
Regarding a poll: Personally I would prefer it if it wasn't a poll so people can add short reasons for why they like the ideas they are representing.
Chris
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arcticblitzMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 126Arc User
The 3 things that stood out to me :
1.) Better education of how to play for the new player - Better Tool Tips, Instructional Prompts , practice versions of dungeons , some level of co-operative help
2.) More ways / reason to progress - Story progression , selectable dungeon difficulty ( tarokka cards system) , Endless dungeon , scaling down caps addressed/removed
3.) Better Accessibility for players with a disability - colour swap options for red attack zones , alternative controller support, other controls to graphic effects to assist with visual based disabilities.
Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger Guild Founder: -HunterS-
So the top comment for me would have to be TheFabricant's post on an endless dungeon. Forgive me, i have forgotten all the other posts i have read over the past and the list is too long to look back now
My reasons are simple:
It provides enough content, actually infinite content until next module This content sates newcomers as well as end gamers at the same time It benefits the game as it needs to focus less on resources as they are flushing out the same resource aka maps.
For me, NW right now is lacking grind-able content and trust me, this is the same as accessibility. The daily cap is absolutely the worst idea and encourages NW into a Chore than a fun time. The idea is to give every player a reason to log in, even if it is just for few minutes. That in my eyes defines a GAME; a visual reality that allows you to break the chains of science and allows you to fantasize and explore a new world. To that end, open world sandboxes are the go to MMO's these days but i second that, after looking at the current state of the game.
How you tackle the dilemma of providing enough content, with intersecting arcs to allow flushing of old content and more meaningful content, is up to you. But you need to provide a sense of progression for all types of audiences. Alas, It won't be an easy feat, but ask yourself questions like, what do i do once i have cleared TOMM or that new dungeon or finished that new campaign? If you get stuck at that part, then i am sorry to say, you haven't yet grasped what progression means.
How about, a rare set of transmutes rewarded if a certain amount of items, randomly placed in a dungeon are found within a set amount of time? What about, a lore book hidden in a map that expands on the D&D lore? How about giving a piece of BiS gear if the dungeon is completed within a set time? The idea is very simple, you give people reason to keep playing at no cost to the game i.e. using the same resources. That is also why PVP is more popular right now, because as micky has very intellectually picked out, each fight is different to the one before. Can you do the same with PVE is the question you need to answer. So looking forward to what the outcome of this CDP will be.
I am starting to notice this topic naturally distil down to what I think a majority have all been saying in different ways. I see it roughly breaking down to the following subtopics. I got it down to 6. I know you want three but I feel all of these are equally important and can't decide on only 3. So I'll list my top 6 and then break it down to 3 so that I can show my train of thought.
Master/Epic along with Story/Normal versions of dungeons.
IMO best bang for the buck when it comes to improving the experience for both new and veteran players.
Revamping the dungeon/quest rewards to be relevant and worth the time/effort.
I think should be ultimately combined with the above.
Revisiting Scaling to insure both Veteran and New player concerns are met with regards to progression, access and time/effort -vs- reward.
While I feel this is VERY important, it is also a very heated topic that deserves it's own CDP and deeper discussion.
Improving documentation throughout the game to include tooltips and elaborate on damage formulas to make the information accurate, understandable and useful to everyone.
Second best bag for your buck, very important to New players and Veterans alike.
Revisiting the need for any gating of content pre level 80, and streamlining the experience.
While not as important for veteran players this is HUGE for new players. It will allow them to experience all of the Great story content, learn their class, and ultimately be ready for endgame content more quickly.
Revisiting the need for gating chat for new players.
This is very important but ultimately this barrier for new players can be worked around with a little help from the community and a better, more noticable explanation of how the new player can find the information they need which should be covered when documentation is improved throughout the game.
There were also many more valid and important posts about PVP, Access for players with disabilities, Guilds and Alliances and a few more that truly deserve their own CDP but did not really fit in this discussion as I understand its definition.
So am I right in what I considered the main discussions in this thread? So the goal of the topic from what I understand is to improve player experience and retention at both ends of the player spectrum. Basically bring new folks in and keep them entertained and engaged while also keeping the Veterans challenged, rewarded and entertained. And oh yeah, all of this has to be FUN for all involved. (I knew there was a reason I didn't got into video game development. )
If I have to choose only 3 these are the ones that I think will provide the most impact for the goal I stated above. 1.) Master/Epic along with Story/Normal versions of dungeons while also revamping the dungeon/quest rewards to be relevant and worth the time/effort.
2.) Improving documentation throughout the game to include tooltips and elaborate on damage formulas to make the information accurate, understandable and useful to everyone.
3.) Revisiting the need for gating any content pre level 80, and streamlining the experience.
To be honest just these three look like a ton of work that may take a year or more by itself. I think these three are pretty self explanatory given the depth that most of the posts went into while presenting them.
"So for the next and final stage prior to the CDP Accessibility proposal is to list what you feel are the top three ideas that have been raised so far in thread (They can be high level and micro ideas for example High Level: Multiple Types of the same dungeon or Micro: An option that allows you to change 'Telegraph' FX colours palette). Feel free to add your thoughts around them as well. We will let this run for a few days and then I will put a proposal forward on behalf of the CDP that you can all critique before it is handed of to the team." - Chris
I'm sorry I'm a little slow, but this is the first CDP I have been involved in. I am also used to a more authoritative and defined direction but I see how that could put chris on the spot and take away from the goal of community involvement / feedback.
I am starting to notice this topic naturally distil down to what I think a majority have all been saying in different ways. I see it roughly breaking down to the following subtopics. I got it down to 6. I know you want three but I feel all of these are equally important and can't decide on only 3. So I'll list my top 6 and then break it down to 3 so that I can show my train of thought.
Master/Epic along with Story/Normal versions of dungeons.
IMO best bang for the buck when it comes to improving the experience for both new and veteran players.
Revamping the dungeon/quest rewards to be relevant and worth the time/effort.
I think should be ultimately combined with the above.
Revisiting Scaling to insure both Veteran and New player concerns are met with regards to progression, access and time/effort -vs- reward.
While I feel this is VERY important, it is also a very heated topic that deserves it's own CDP and deeper discussion.
Improving documentation throughout the game to include tooltips and elaborate on damage formulas to make the information accurate, understandable and useful to everyone.
Second best bag for your buck, very important to New players and Veterans alike.
Revisiting the need for Timegating content pre level 80, and streamlining the experience.
While not as important for veteran players this is HUGE for new players. It will allow them to experience all of the Great story content, learn their class, and ultimately be ready for endgame content more quickly.
Revisiting the need for gating chat for new players.
This is very important but ultimately this barrier for new players can be worked around with a little help from the community and a better, more noticable explanation of how the new player can find the information they need which should be covered when documentation is improved throughout the game.
There were also many more valid and important posts about PVP, Access for players with disabilities, Guilds and Alliances and a few more that truly deserve their own CDP but did not really fit in this discussion as I understand its definition.
So am I right in what I considered the main discussions in this thread? So the goal of the topic from what I understand is to improve player experience and retention at both ends of the player spectrum. Basically bring new folks in and keep them entertained and engaged while also keeping the Veterans challenged, rewarded and entertained. And oh yeah, all of this has to be FUN for all involved. (I knew there was a reason I didn't got into video game development. )
If I have to choose only 3 these are the ones that I think will provide the most impact for the goal I stated above. 1.) Master/Epic along with Story/Normal versions of dungeons while also revamping the dungeon/quest rewards to be relevant and worth the time/effort.
2.) Improving documentation throughout the game to include tooltips and elaborate on damage formulas to make the information accurate, understandable and useful to everyone.
3.) Revisiting the need for Timegating content pre level 80, and streamlining the experience.
To be honest just these three look like a ton of work that may take a year or more by itself. I think these three are pretty self explanatory given the depth that most of the posts went into while presenting them.
"So for the next and final stage prior to the CDP Accessibility proposal is to list what you feel are the top three ideas that have been raised so far in thread (They can be high level and micro ideas for example High Level: Multiple Types of the same dungeon or Micro: An option that allows you to change 'Telegraph' FX colours palette). Feel free to add your thoughts around them as well. We will let this run for a few days and then I will put a proposal forward on behalf of the CDP that you can all critique before it is handed of to the team." - Chris
I'm sorry I'm a little slow, but this is the first CDP I have been involved in. I am also used to a more authoritative and defined direction but I see how that could put chris on the spot and take away from the goal of community involvement / feedback.
well said but my top three would be the first three you mentioned at the top of the post.
Master/Epic along with Story/Normal versions of dungeons.
IMO best bang for the buck when it comes to improving the experience for both new and veteran players.
Revamping the dungeon/quest rewards to be relevant and worth the time/effort.
I think should be ultimately combined with the above.
Revisiting Scaling to insure both Veteran and New player concerns are met with regards to progression, access and time/effort -vs- reward.
While I feel this is VERY important, it is also a very heated topic that deserves it's own CDP and deeper discussion.
@thefiresidecat I agree about scaling but honestly I think it needs it's own CDP. People have strong opinions about scaling and I think it is going to be a heated and long discussion. I think we have only scratched the surface of that topic here in this CDP.
In my idea of a perfect scenario the developers would make all dungeons (except leveling) level 80 and split them into Legendary, Epic and Normal versions. Scale new players up and critters down for the normal version with rewards geared toward new players. In the epic version No scaling of players or critters with rewards geared to all players. In the Legendary version No scaling of players and I would scale the critters up and also introduce some sort of modifier like in the MEs or Hunts so that endgame players can bump up the difficulty even more for better rewards.
Realistically though the effort involved for the developers would be insane and we would still be stuck with high queue times and private groups.
@thefiresidecat I agree about scaling but honestly I think it needs it's own CDP. People have strong opinions about scaling and I think it is going to be a heated and long discussion. I think we have only scratched the surface of that topic here in this CDP.
In my idea of a perfect scenario the developers would make all dungeons (except leveling) level 80 and split them into Legendary, Epic and Normal versions. Scale new players up and critters down for the normal version with rewards geared toward new players. In the epic version No scaling of players or critters with rewards geared to all players. In the Legendary version No scaling of players and I would scale the critters up and also introduce some sort of modifier like in the MEs or Hunts so that endgame players can bump up the difficulty even more for better rewards.
Realistically though the effort involved for the developers would be insane and we would still be stuck with high queue times and private groups.
I can dream though!
I think scaling is an emergency personally. I do think it's the main reason the game just isn't fun for just about anyone at the time. it's a base problem that affects everything. I also don't think it's a heated conversation as a whole.
Quick reminder that the focus of the CDP now is to pick the three ideas you liked the most in regard to the topic of the thread: Accessibility.
Oremonger did a pretty good summary above (Many thanks Ore) although I would recommend (if you have time and haven’t done so already) reading the parts of the thread that interest you the most so you can get up to date on the discussion and details before picking your top three.
@thefiresidecat I agree it is emergent, but I also know that the combined problems in this game are like a BIG ELEPHANT and unfortunately the only way for the developers to eat that big elephant is one bite at a time. I think this is why Chris asked us to limit ourselves to three subtopics. Maybe it is like a developer form of Triage. Unfortunately I think they are using the Combat form of Triage and not the Civilian form i.e. fix this thing that can sorta work first instead of fix this thing that is about to die first.
I think I remember reading a post by @noworries#8859 discussing some upcoming changes to scaling over in the Preview forums. Honestly I would like to see it done away with all together along with Random queues, but then I remember talking to a new guild member about their experience in dungeons and I realize something has to be done. I am still not sure scaling (current form) is or will ever be the answer though. I have not done lower level content since MOD 16 or done any dungeon training runs with new guild members in that content. All because of scaling. I feel your pain man.
I asked for a poll in this and another thread for this reason. There are several (in our opinion) emergent problems with this game and many of us have passionate views about those that affect us. Emergent problems for us may not seem to be emergent to the developers. (".... in a good place.") I think a poll to help organize or rank topics would help prioritize what is discussed in future CDPs given that we can only cover one topic per month.
Some things truly are more important than others. Triage... I have my fork and knife let's eat.
if everything were level 80 and they kept the old fashioned some dungeons are "easy" building up to quite difficult, with rewards that build up the new player and commiserate with the time spent and difficulty for the longer term player, I think everyone would be taken care of. I have no wavering in my certainty of the issues and their importance. the three I went with are all part of the same three sided coin imo. I honestly think those things fixed/added would make the game a better place for everyone new and old. the game is broken atm. seriously. those are the main of a fix imo.
the "good place" thing couldn't be more dismissive could it? it's always been a hot button for me.
After further discussion with @thefiresidecat I think my three would be:
1.) Master/Epic along with Story/Normal versions of dungeons while also revamping the dungeon/quest rewards to be relevant and worth the time/effort.
2.) Improving documentation throughout the game to include tooltips and elaborate on damage formulas to make the information accurate, understandable and useful to everyone.
3.) Revisiting Scaling to insure both Veteran and New player concerns are met with regards to progression, access and time/effort -vs- reward.
I still think all three are going to require a ton of work from the developers that may take a year or more but they are all really important.
1.) Better education of how to play for the new player - Better Tool Tips, Instructional Prompts , practice versions of dungeons , some level of co-operative help
2.) More ways / reason to progress - Story progression , selectable dungeon difficulty ( tarokka cards system) , Endless dungeon , scaling down caps addressed/removed
3.) Better Accessibility for players with a disability - colour swap options for red attack zones , alternative controller support, other controls to graphic effects to assist with visual based disabilities.
^^^^ This, exactly. If I had to distill the most important thing for myself in each area it would be: 1) Better tool tips 2) Clearer and more specific to character story progression 3) Reaching out and working with a group like Able Gamers Foundation
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
My top 3:
- Improving documentation throughout the game to include tooltips and elaborate on damage formulas to make the information accurate, understandable and useful to everyone.
- Resolve bugs with feats and powers, otherwise, first point is useless. Also I want more useful options in each class in feats, class features and powers, now I pick the less usefull ones. It shoul be like "i want to have all the feats but I cant"
- Different levels of dungeons with according rewards, more variety in rewards / unique reward table for each dungeon / trial
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
From my side the three points would be:
- different levels of dungeons with according rewards and unique reward table for each dungeon - revisiting scaling - bringing back control as a part of the game
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
@sobi#1980 responding to the post directly above mine
I'm probably alone on this one in the forums but I think maybe there are a lot that do agree with me in game, but i HATE the holy trinity. I prefered the way it was with lifesteal, buff/debuff before personally. but a HUGE margin. I don't want to be a healer. I don't want the hate they get if they're doing their job or not. I don't want to be a tank because of the hate they get, whether they are doing their job or not. and I think a lot of people are with me there. it was one of the things that made this particular mmo stick out from the rest in a very good way. now not so much for just so many reasons. it's the reason that heals and tanks are a little harder to come by. like 3% actually LIKE playing those classes. many people actually liked being buff debuff. and as a dps I really dislike depending on heals to heal me. I like playing with other people but I dislike my health being reliant on them.
I'm with you to a certain extent. In the early stages of this game damage was not that heavy compared to the overall hit points of a typical DPS or tank. As a DPS I could rely on potions for my healing most if the time. The healer had less focus on healing and could do other things like pushing enemies or buffing with ease (healer meant Cleric at the time).
Then lifesteal took over and that was bad. I remember groups of 5 DPS steamrolling dungeons because they were able to outheal any damage while dealing massive damage at the same time. And they were even able to do door-to-door pulls. That's the main reason why mod 6 had to do a complete rehaul of the system.
Personally I'd like to go back to the first system, with less damage, less healing and more use of potions. Nowadays only a tank can get a hit from a boss. This means that the strategy in combat is always the same: tank has to get boss' agro. My suggestion to the dev team would be to go back to mod1-mod2 and play the old epic dungeons. That was Neverwinter at its best.
you are one of the few that like being heals apparently. the part of the game you dislike is the part i liked best. potions are no good imo. especially with the cooldowns. lifesteal was awesome. heals pushing enemies is also one of the GREAT banes of dps. as I recall heals would get kicked for that particular sin.
That's mainly because control was not needed at some point in the game, as you could simply DPS everything down. That's more or less the point when this game started to lose steam (mod 5). I have horrible memories of our teams of five DPS killing everything on sight while standing in red because lifesteal enabled us to outheal any kind of damage. The paingiver chart did more damage to this game than everything else.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Some of these more recent comments have refreshed my memory.
Before I move onto my three best suggestions, I would like to clarify something. Tier based dungeon have two main purpose in my eyes. First, it will gate the less experienced players to where they belong and thus increase their chance to clear a scaled down dungeon which would otherwise be difficult; second, there is now no need for scaling of end gamers as they have their master/legendary tiers to play with other well geared players.
However, there is a confusion between tier based system and revamping the rewards for each dungeon. If you tier each dungeon, the above two reasons are not enough to make players play them. A good example would be LOMM. Why would i play LOMM, if lets say because of the tier system, i am bound to get good allies but the fact of the matter still remains that on average, a 25-30mins run will yield me a measly 15-25kAD and other non-existent rewards? The whole purpose of grading is to scale the rewards for the higher tiers. Don't forget that PuG is still an option if you wanted to avoid having matched with under geared players in LOMM and so i really think that the main purpose of grading dungeons was to scale their rewards so that end gamers have something to grind. The grading and revamping of rewards are part of the same system for the former to even yield any result in my opinion.
My biggest concern still remains, that is that grading will segregate the community and that would make PuG the only viable method of playing. That's a vision I would avoid following if I was cryptic. It just takes one look around the gaming industry to see that hardly anyone likes to wait for a group to PuG for a dungeon and a big example of this is League of Legends. I still remember that there was a time when you had to wait 10 mins for a queue and that caused a huge uproar in the forums. If you didn't know, the queue times in League can be as little as 0 seconds. People just like to just go online, play a quick PVP game and log out and I think that this trend will follow for many years to come. Not only that, if we then separate the lower tiers from the veterans, they might not have any source of inspiration to gear up because we are effectively building an imaginary wall between them and the vets.
Progression = Grind and that is the sad truth. No game has enough resources to sate its players with new content every hour, 7 days a week. My 2 cents would be to focus on retaining as much of the losing playerbase as possible and then target the newcomers. I think, a quick change to how the game looks after you turn lvl 70 would be a quick shot at this and the gain would be massive.
My dilemma still remains. NW cannot compete with PVP than its competitors out there, but it can with PVE and its combat. Can you make your PVE resemble PVP so that each dungeon run is different from the previous one? That in my eyes would be a quality content because it has no end limit to how it can be played and choice is what players demand. I think a huge part of that would be how combat is designed in the game to be as linear as possible. DPS are basically numbers and so are healers and tanks. Gabriel suggested to introduce another factor into the game ontop of the holy trinity (tank, healer, dps) and that is control. Making combat interesting would in return make each dungeon run interesting. You might be thinking that this suggestion might just be aimed at end gamers but it doesn't take long to realize that it'll take only so long for one person to go through the story mode, what does he do next? Probably the best answer would be to explore the vast adventurous world, but you know the answer to that.
My 3 suggestions
Revamping rewards + Class update. Endless Progression (at least until next module) Tooltip revamp / Lvl 70+ revamp.
Feedback Overview I would like to propose having a “barracks” of shared companions available on an account for both existing and future characters.
Feedback goal I believe this will reduce redundancy of companions across an account and open the possibility of quickly being able to slot any companion from the shared barracks. If a new or existing player decided they had not found the right class for them during levelling, any companions they had acquired from any source would be available for another character on that account.
Feedback Functionality Using the existing UI, a player would be able to choose any companion to assign to the appropriate slot type available on that class from the shared barracks. Companions would still be able to be upgraded in the same fashion and those companions would be accessible on the account.
Risks & Concerns As a consumer of the product none, in fact – I think I would probably look to upgrade other companions.
History I recently had in it mind to create a fighter as I actually enjoy tanking and wanted to see how it felt using another class. It quickly became apparent that I would need to be levelling up another set of companions. This felt a little bit disheartening as I already have several legendary companions on my Paladin. Of course, then I realised why I wouldn’t be using the Paladin for anything other than a tank as I am already in the process of upgrading outgoing healing companions for my Warlock!
Thanks Black
Cool idea Blackmagid.
Chris
they should do the same thing for mounts i have mounts on a charecter i ddo not play anymore that i whould hate to lose
Comments
Chris
Maybe we will do a PVP thread next. Perhaps one of the designers could help me with it.
Thanks
Chris
I totally agree and thanks for posting. We 100% need to look at how we handle anti spam, farmer systems in regard to new players. Even the messaging around what is required to unlock full functionality is confusing.
Thanks
Chris
We will do our very best. Not everyone will be happy all the time but we will at the very least be on a shared journey as we evolve the game moving forward and we intend to be as transparent as possible.
Thanks
Chris
Thanks for your posts (And to all the others who have posted in regard to this area of accessibility).
We will have a meeting in the new year and create a post with our thoughts, actions and any questions in the CDP area.
Chris
I am fully up to date. I would like to apologize for not being more responsive but we wanted to get the first CDP started prior to 2020 because every time we do one we will not only learn more, and evolve the game together but we will also get more experience working together, communicating, problem solving and pioneering faster. We will then be able to on-board new members to the CDP more easily as word spreads.
This said the thread thus far has been pretty good and has been without doubt useful. However I should have moved us to the next stage of the CDP on about page 8.
So for the next and final stage prior to the CDP Accessibility proposal is to list what you feel are the top three ideas that have been raised so far in thread (They can be high level and micro ideas for example High Level: Multiple Types of the same dungeon or Micro: An option that allows you to change 'Telegraph' FX colours palette). Feel free to add your thoughts around them as well. We will let this run for a few days and then I will put a proposal forward on behalf of the CDP that you can all critique before it is handed of to the team.
Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts.
Chris
Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback):
Decrease the grind of character development within Guild, Boon and Campaign Progressions...
by getting all rewards at once... Possibly separate Story Campaign from Boons.
Reduce the grind for all casual and hardcore players.... Add Dragon Shard system to create Marks.
Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish):
Character development combined into one end reward. Providing guild, gear, boon and campaign progression
during quest rewards. An example of my week, one day grinding guild vouchers, another completing
character boon story line progression, another grinding AD from Randoms. Another day grinding gear, refining
stones etc. Help casual and hardcore players a like by making one grind, not many separate grinds.
Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter):
Adding Guild Vouchers, Campaign Currency for Boon and Dragonshards that can be combined to provide
Refining Marks in every quest end reward. Adding System to create Marks Rank (4, 5,6) by Combining
certain amount of lower Marks.
I should be able to run any quest and get all based on which Random, Dungeon, Trial or Skirmish.
Possibly separate Story campaign from Boon progression? Make Story campaign account based and Boon
Character progression by totally removing Boons from Story Campaign. Stop the Grind of completing quests
a 100 times before progressing. Complete the Story to unlock Boon progression.
Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)
Always the risk is losing money with all the campaign unlocks. But could still have Boon unlock.
New ingredients needed to produce Dragon Shards for creating Marks etc.
New bags needed to hold fragment types of Dragon Shards but also new revenue.
Feedback Overview:
Enable the possibility of updating old artifact sets, using the new sets as reagents.
Removing the need to review artifacts or nerf old ones.
Feedback Goal:
To keep players happy without wound the Game economy (Devs business)
Players can keep their old builds by conserving their artifacts which they will be able to update with the use in the process of the new artifact sets as a reagent requirement. Win-win situation.
Feedback Functionality:
Create a new npc: The Forgemaster, the Mythic Artificer... Call him how you better like.
He will be a master crafter able to upgrade artifacts by disrupting the magic of other new artifacts to channel it into the old ones.
For lore meanings, this artificer might be a cursed old great artificer that you may find amid the map of the Nine Hells, adding as a new requirement the need to be level 80 and strong enough like to reach his spot.
By opening conversation with him, he will show a list of all old artifact sets that you owned and wanted to upgrade.
The upgrading process may require as refinement reagents (a sample):
Consumption of the old set
Consumption of one of the new sets by affinity (old dps set may require a dps new set, etc)
Consumption of one perfect diamond, 10 blood rubies and X Enchanting Stones, rank 7 (this may include some new reagent found in the new campaign and also being sold in the Zen Store and unbound so that could be sold in Auction Hall)
+100 to 1000 Golds to the NPC as payment for his works (whatever was seems as a high but doable payment).
Then, the player will acquire an upgraded version of his vintage artifact set in uncommon quality (requiring again to be refined to upgrade it towards legendary/mythic quality), which will have renewed/upgraded statistics according the IL of the new set used as reagent, but keeping the old special power intact.
Edited: (The new set does not need to be made through a complex coding system, can be a new set that updates stats to the new IL of the current mod and that is give to the player after trade the required reagents)
Sample: To upgrade the Orcus demonic set, you need to have it entire, then to acquire the Wyvern set (at any quality rank) plus 10 Enchanting Stones, rank 6, and 5 rank 7, and 100 gold for the npc payment. Then, the Artificer will reforge the Demonic set into an updated one, boosting the statistics value till 980 IL and keeping untouched the special abilities.
Risks & Concerns:
This, should keep everyone happy and the only issue I can imagine, is the cost going so expensive, but as an alternative to get an old set fall in oblivion or getting nerfed, I cannot imagine a better solve to keep everyone satisfied.
Thoughts?
You and Cryptic deserve serious recognition if you make a move in this direction. Even a meeting means something.
At it's core, it's really "advertising" that money can't buy. What MMO gaming site wouldn't write an article on such a major MMO company making improvements to their game for this cause? This group of gamers in need is a MARKET... there's a lot of people out there that need help. Many of them are playing Neverwinter at this very moment, and many will soon if your meeting turns out fruitful.
Thank you kindly.
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To build a bit on what Froger, Mentin, Jules, and others wrote, plus add my own twist and thoughts,
For me part of the accessibility issues is too much access too soon. Less than a week to reach level 80, then grind MEs over and over and over, for a couple of weeks, and you have the IL for, and have access to, everything in the game except LOMM and TOMM, including REQ and RTQ, but no idea how to actually do any of them. There is no real progression to get you there, it's just handed to you with no context. So, some agreements with others and my thoughts:
- A clear progression through the campaigns. No time gate for the main story line, and at the end you get one boon. Going back and grinding the dailies would still give you the rest of the boons.
- Completing a campaign story line (not time-gated) unlocks the campaign's normal dungeon/skirmish account wide. The normal dungeon is reworked to have ALL the mechanics of the Epic, but easier. (A chance to actually learn the mechanics outside the Epic version.) To ensure these people can find queues, they can get pulled into Randoms by campaign quest line queuing.
- Completing the Normal dungeon unlocks the Epic dungeon account wide.
- Completing all the relevant dungeons gives you access to the appropriate queue account wide.
- Dungeons are level 80, and drop currently relevant gear (Epic better than Normal) as well as campaign currency. Epics can drop some of the ME/WE loot so we don't have to grind this limited content so often and people will want to do the dungeons again, again increasing accessibility.
Yes this slows access the the Random queues by a few/several weeks, but people who have access have learned how the dungeons/skirmishes/trials work. This could lead to fewer private queues, as there would be less frustration from end game players about newer players not knowing the mechanics. This could actually increase accessibility to Random queues.Part of accessibility is also class balance. E.g. my favorite class is warlock, and when I ask for advice about build, rotations, etc., the most common advice I get is "Choose a different class". I've often heard similar comments about other class paragons as well, if not entire classes (e.g. Arbiter). If people are discouraged from playing what they like because the game is not balanced well, they won't play.
Not being able to chat at low levels has been mentioned, and it does suck. But so does the racism, misogyny, creedism, homophobia, and politics baiting in the chat channels. Lowering the chat level but policing this better might help in your inclusiveness drive.
I know my 3 for example but I don't want to bias anything by posting them currently.
Regarding a poll: Personally I would prefer it if it wasn't a poll so people can add short reasons for why they like the ideas they are representing.
Chris
1.) Better education of how to play for the new player
- Better Tool Tips, Instructional Prompts , practice versions of dungeons , some level of co-operative help
2.) More ways / reason to progress
- Story progression , selectable dungeon difficulty ( tarokka cards system) , Endless dungeon , scaling down caps addressed/removed
3.) Better Accessibility for players with a disability
- colour swap options for red attack zones , alternative controller support, other controls to graphic effects to assist with visual based disabilities.
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
My reasons are simple:
It provides enough content, actually infinite content until next module
This content sates newcomers as well as end gamers at the same time
It benefits the game as it needs to focus less on resources as they are flushing out the same resource aka maps.
For me, NW right now is lacking grind-able content and trust me, this is the same as accessibility. The daily cap is absolutely the worst idea and encourages NW into a Chore than a fun time. The idea is to give every player a reason to log in, even if it is just for few minutes. That in my eyes defines a GAME; a visual reality that allows you to break the chains of science and allows you to fantasize and explore a new world. To that end, open world sandboxes are the go to MMO's these days but i second that, after looking at the current state of the game.
How you tackle the dilemma of providing enough content, with intersecting arcs to allow flushing of old content and more meaningful content, is up to you. But you need to provide a sense of progression for all types of audiences. Alas, It won't be an easy feat, but ask yourself questions like, what do i do once i have cleared TOMM or that new dungeon or finished that new campaign? If you get stuck at that part, then i am sorry to say, you haven't yet grasped what progression means.
How about, a rare set of transmutes rewarded if a certain amount of items, randomly placed in a dungeon are found within a set amount of time? What about, a lore book hidden in a map that expands on the D&D lore? How about giving a piece of BiS gear if the dungeon is completed within a set time? The idea is very simple, you give people reason to keep playing at no cost to the game i.e. using the same resources. That is also why PVP is more popular right now, because as micky has very intellectually picked out, each fight is different to the one before. Can you do the same with PVE is the question you need to answer. So looking forward to what the outcome of this CDP will be.
Master/Epic along with Story/Normal versions of dungeons.
IMO best bang for the buck when it comes to improving the experience for both new and veteran players.Revamping the dungeon/quest rewards to be relevant and worth the time/effort.
I think should be ultimately combined with the above.Revisiting Scaling to insure both Veteran and New player concerns are met with regards to progression, access and time/effort -vs- reward.
While I feel this is VERY important, it is also a very heated topic that deserves it's own CDP and deeper discussion.Improving documentation throughout the game to include tooltips and elaborate on damage formulas to make the information accurate, understandable and useful to everyone.
Second best bag for your buck, very important to New players and Veterans alike.Revisiting the need for any gating of content pre level 80, and streamlining the experience.
While not as important for veteran players this is HUGE for new players. It will allow them to experience all of the Great story content, learn their class, and ultimately be ready for endgame content more quickly.Revisiting the need for gating chat for new players.
This is very important but ultimately this barrier for new players can be worked around with a little help from the community and a better, more noticable explanation of how the new player can find the information they need which should be covered when documentation is improved throughout the game.There were also many more valid and important posts about PVP, Access for players with disabilities, Guilds and Alliances and a few more that truly deserve their own CDP but did not really fit in this discussion as I understand its definition.
So am I right in what I considered the main discussions in this thread? So the goal of the topic from what I understand is to improve player experience and retention at both ends of the player spectrum. Basically bring new folks in and keep them entertained and engaged while also keeping the Veterans challenged, rewarded and entertained. And oh yeah, all of this has to be FUN for all involved. (I knew there was a reason I didn't got into video game development.
If I have to choose only 3 these are the ones that I think will provide the most impact for the goal I stated above.
1.) Master/Epic along with Story/Normal versions of dungeons while also revamping the dungeon/quest rewards to be relevant and worth the time/effort.
2.) Improving documentation throughout the game to include tooltips and elaborate on damage formulas to make the information accurate, understandable and useful to everyone.
3.) Revisiting the need for gating any content pre level 80, and streamlining the experience.
To be honest just these three look like a ton of work that may take a year or more by itself.
I think these three are pretty self explanatory given the depth that most of the posts went into while presenting them.
"So for the next and final stage prior to the CDP Accessibility proposal is to list what you feel are the top three ideas that have been raised so far in thread (They can be high level and micro ideas for example High Level: Multiple Types of the same dungeon or Micro: An option that allows you to change 'Telegraph' FX colours palette). Feel free to add your thoughts around them as well. We will let this run for a few days and then I will put a proposal forward on behalf of the CDP that you can all critique before it is handed of to the team." - Chris
I'm sorry I'm a little slow, but this is the first CDP I have been involved in. I am also used to a more authoritative and defined direction but I see how that could put chris on the spot and take away from the goal of community involvement / feedback.
Master/Epic along with Story/Normal versions of dungeons.
IMO best bang for the buck when it comes to improving the experience for both new and veteran players.Revamping the dungeon/quest rewards to be relevant and worth the time/effort.
I think should be ultimately combined with the above.Revisiting Scaling to insure both Veteran and New player concerns are met with regards to progression, access and time/effort -vs- reward.
While I feel this is VERY important, it is also a very heated topic that deserves it's own CDP and deeper discussion.that said I think your top 6 is spot on.
I agree about scaling but honestly I think it needs it's own CDP. People have strong opinions about scaling and I think it is going to be a heated and long discussion. I think we have only scratched the surface of that topic here in this CDP.
In my idea of a perfect scenario the developers would make all dungeons (except leveling) level 80 and split them into Legendary, Epic and Normal versions. Scale new players up and critters down for the normal version with rewards geared toward new players. In the epic version No scaling of players or critters with rewards geared to all players. In the Legendary version No scaling of players and I would scale the critters up and also introduce some sort of modifier like in the MEs or Hunts so that endgame players can bump up the difficulty even more for better rewards.
Realistically though the effort involved for the developers would be insane and we would still be stuck with high queue times and private groups.
I can dream though!
Oremonger did a pretty good summary above (Many thanks Ore) although I would recommend (if you have time and haven’t done so already) reading the parts of the thread that interest you the most so you can get up to date on the discussion and details before picking your top three.
Thanks
Chris
the "good place" thing couldn't be more dismissive could it? it's always been a hot button for me.
1.) Master/Epic along with Story/Normal versions of dungeons while also revamping the dungeon/quest rewards to be relevant and worth the time/effort.
2.) Improving documentation throughout the game to include tooltips and elaborate on damage formulas to make the information accurate, understandable and useful to everyone.
3.) Revisiting Scaling to insure both Veteran and New player concerns are met with regards to progression, access and time/effort -vs- reward.
I still think all three are going to require a ton of work from the developers that may take a year or more but they are all really important.
If I had to distill the most important thing for myself in each area it would be:
1) Better tool tips
2) Clearer and more specific to character story progression
3) Reaching out and working with a group like Able Gamers Foundation
- Improving documentation throughout the game to include tooltips and elaborate on damage formulas to make the information accurate, understandable and useful to everyone.
- Resolve bugs with feats and powers, otherwise, first point is useless. Also I want more useful options in each class in feats, class features and powers, now I pick the less usefull ones. It shoul be like "i want to have all the feats but I cant"
- Different levels of dungeons with according rewards, more variety in rewards / unique reward table for each dungeon / trial
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
- different levels of dungeons with according rewards and unique reward table for each dungeon
- revisiting scaling
- bringing back control as a part of the game
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Before I move onto my three best suggestions, I would like to clarify something. Tier based dungeon have two main purpose in my eyes. First, it will gate the less experienced players to where they belong and thus increase their chance to clear a scaled down dungeon which would otherwise be difficult; second, there is now no need for scaling of end gamers as they have their master/legendary tiers to play with other well geared players.
However, there is a confusion between tier based system and revamping the rewards for each dungeon. If you tier each dungeon, the above two reasons are not enough to make players play them. A good example would be LOMM. Why would i play LOMM, if lets say because of the tier system, i am bound to get good allies but the fact of the matter still remains that on average, a 25-30mins run will yield me a measly 15-25kAD and other non-existent rewards? The whole purpose of grading is to scale the rewards for the higher tiers. Don't forget that PuG is still an option if you wanted to avoid having matched with under geared players in LOMM and so i really think that the main purpose of grading dungeons was to scale their rewards so that end gamers have something to grind. The grading and revamping of rewards are part of the same system for the former to even yield any result in my opinion.
My biggest concern still remains, that is that grading will segregate the community and that would make PuG the only viable method of playing. That's a vision I would avoid following if I was cryptic. It just takes one look around the gaming industry to see that hardly anyone likes to wait for a group to PuG for a dungeon and a big example of this is League of Legends. I still remember that there was a time when you had to wait 10 mins for a queue and that caused a huge uproar in the forums. If you didn't know, the queue times in League can be as little as 0 seconds. People just like to just go online, play a quick PVP game and log out and I think that this trend will follow for many years to come. Not only that, if we then separate the lower tiers from the veterans, they might not have any source of inspiration to gear up because we are effectively building an imaginary wall between them and the vets.
Progression = Grind and that is the sad truth. No game has enough resources to sate its players with new content every hour, 7 days a week. My 2 cents would be to focus on retaining as much of the losing playerbase as possible and then target the newcomers. I think, a quick change to how the game looks after you turn lvl 70 would be a quick shot at this and the gain would be massive.
My dilemma still remains. NW cannot compete with PVP than its competitors out there, but it can with PVE and its combat. Can you make your PVE resemble PVP so that each dungeon run is different from the previous one? That in my eyes would be a quality content because it has no end limit to how it can be played and choice is what players demand. I think a huge part of that would be how combat is designed in the game to be as linear as possible. DPS are basically numbers and so are healers and tanks. Gabriel suggested to introduce another factor into the game ontop of the holy trinity (tank, healer, dps) and that is control. Making combat interesting would in return make each dungeon run interesting. You might be thinking that this suggestion might just be aimed at end gamers but it doesn't take long to realize that it'll take only so long for one person to go through the story mode, what does he do next? Probably the best answer would be to explore the vast adventurous world, but you know the answer to that.
My 3 suggestions
Revamping rewards + Class update.
Endless Progression (at least until next module)
Tooltip revamp / Lvl 70+ revamp.