@therealprotex I don't think you realize how important CA is. Let me put it to you this way, a hunter with no feats allocated at all but who positions for CA will do roughly the same as a hunter who has all of them, but does not have CA. Every single one of your feats combined is worth about the same as combat advantage.
And if you want to argue about non capped CA? Cool, say you only get half the benefit of CA instead of the full benefit, now its worth as much as 2 of your feats instead of all 5. There is no way you can spin this that makes CA a non critical part of gameplay, thinking it does not is a serious mistake to make.
Ok, I accept this advice as I know that you are much more into the numbers of this game than me. I am basically someone who plays more with a good gut feeling than turning every number twice. But I apprechiate the advice of those who do.
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therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
You get higher increase without vorpal, And even higher without maxed crit. Even higher with 0 crit. So that assertion of only BiS (or similar) is false.
And how is that 'power' is +100% damage? Adding anything into a rotation is doesn't double your damage. Rotation is not empty time.
Flurry doubles the damage of your at will attacks. Stated in the feat's tooltip. And by timing your encounters properly you can keep up Flurry for (almost) 100% of the time.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
You get higher increase without vorpal, And even higher without maxed crit. Even higher with 0 crit. So that assertion of only BiS (or similar) is false.
And how is that 'power' is +100% damage? Adding anything into a rotation is doesn't double your damage. Rotation is not empty time.
Flurry doubles the damage of your at will attacks. Stated in the feat's tooltip. And by timing your encounters properly you can keep up Flurry for (almost) 100% of the time.
Yes, but your at-wills is not 100% of your damage. Lets say at-wills are about 20% of your total damage (in practice it is much lower for a top HR) doubling that will increase your total damage by 20% not 100%. Which is lower than CA (when you have CA).
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therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
edited July 2019
It would be wiser if the Devs change the area from an arc/cone to a rectangle/corridor. Its width determined by the angle that defines it now. Its direction the line from your flanking partner through the opponent. Its (new) length 85'. Problem solved.
This way ranged fighters would be in a disadvantage (since every movement of the flanking partner who is supposedly closer to the enemy would move the CA corridor faster at "your" end), but I could live with that.
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therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
Yes, but your at-wills is not 100% of your damage. Lets say at-wills are about 20% of your total damage (in practice it is much lower for a top HR) doubling that will increase your total damage by 20% not 100%. Which is lower than CA (when you have CA).
First, I did not say that a ranger's at-wills do 100% of my damage. Second, ACT says that my ranger's at-wills do 40-60% of his total damage. Doubled already of course.
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
You kept posting in numerous posts that the area is exactly the same, we just showed you it's not. With pictures. Nothing less nothing more..
If you mistook area with angle, it's really not our fault here... Thanks for the attempted insults though, appreciate those when trying simply explain simple thing.
It would be wiser if the Devs change the area from an arc/cone to a rectangle/corridor. Its width determined by the angle that defines it now. Its direction the line from your flanking partner through the opponent. Its (new) length 85'. Problem solved.
This way ranged fighters would be in a disadvantage (since every movement of the flanking partner who is supposedly closer to the enemy would move the CA corridor faster at "your" end), but I could live with that.
it would be the same for melee thou, like i said previously, if its changed to work that way, melee characters would need to be exactly at the opposite flank from their allies, same for ranged classes, makes no difference. Right now it works as a cone, with means if we reduce the area, the cone remains at the same proportion, and if we increase it, its still the same proportion but with a much wider area, which also requires more movement. But have their cons and pros. But what i can see here is that it would require u to be more attentive to your positioning that now.
What they are literally saying is that with how it is, rangers will have advantage cos they have wider area, that makes no sense, cos its the same angle for everyone, even if you are at melee and lets say you go on a 225º from ur ally, you still get CA, you dont need to be at 270º to get CA.
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
You kept posting in numerous posts that the area is exactly the same, we just showed you it's not. With pictures. Nothing less nothing more..
If you mistook area with angle, it's really not our fault here... Thanks for the attempted insults though, appreciate those when trying simply explain simple thing.
Ok and what does any of this has to do with rangers having an advantage or playing melee or range determining if you are or not a good dps?
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
You kept posting in numerous posts that the area is exactly the same, we just showed you it's not. With pictures. Nothing less nothing more..
If you mistook area with angle, it's really not our fault here... Thanks for the attempted insults though, appreciate those when trying simply explain simple thing.
Ok and what does any of this has to do with rangers having an advantage or playing melee or range determining if you are or not a good dps?
If a person doesn't understand what area they need to stand in to get CA, they can't judge what CA gives them or not nad how to get it, can they? Or if the area part is offtopic in your opinion, why you yourself brought it up so many times...
Looks like the "Can't admit a mistake" syndrome to me.
Large area = less skill needed to hit it. Like the hit a barn with a gun idiom
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
The advantage is the arc length and larger area. Instead of standing on a relative sliver, you have a much larger area that is more forgiving simply because of it's size at that range, more forgiving for those with who play with lag, or rubber banding, or just slow reflexes . If you do have doubts about whether it's a 90 degree angle or not, go look at the stand the dummy is on and the blue/white arc around it.
Without a doubt correct (unless the Devs do not just increase the CA area as a simply larger arc), but I fail to see how you could derive a quality feature for a "good dps" from the ability to stay in the CA area. There are much more things going on in a fight that require good observation skills.
It does not matter if there is other stuff going on in the fight, by virtue of it being harder to remain inside of the arc at a smaller range, it requires more skill to do.
It does. But that does not make you a better dps. You still fail to prove that point in my opinion.
If it requires more skill to do something, then on the basis of skill the player that does do it is better than the player who does not. The player who does take the time to position for CA, does more damage and thus if your only measure of a dps is how much damage they deal, they will be a better dps because their damage will be higher. By extending the area in which you can get CA, by the virtue of there being less total area where you CANNOT get CA, a player positioned at random is more likely to have CA than before. This means that by increasing the area in which you can get CA, you are reducing the skill cap for all dps who have the option to play at ranged.
There you go, there is your proof.
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
There is an arc, 90 degrees wide with the person giving the positional CA bonus as center of the circle in the direction of the boss. The further out you go, the wider the arc is going to be, giving a rather large area out to 85' away from the tank.
the only way to prove someone wrong is by testing, i just went on preview and the area was exactly the same as in melee range. so what am i missing?
Did you actually test this? I just went on preview as well, my companion did not move, but I did move quite a bit and maintained CA, and that is at a relatively close range still. https://imgur.com/HdFTkAW
Looking at the image where I have 2 dummies with CA, it looks like as long as both allies are somewhere in that 90 degree arc, on either side, that CA will be applies, making the area in which CA can be applied even larger.
I have been stating that from earlier on in the conversation at the start and have been bashed over making arguments in support of that exact mathematical effect that is happening.
Guild Leader: Under the Influence Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
You kept posting in numerous posts that the area is exactly the same, we just showed you it's not. With pictures. Nothing less nothing more..
If you mistook area with angle, it's really not our fault here... Thanks for the attempted insults though, appreciate those when trying simply explain simple thing.
Ok and what does any of this has to do with rangers having an advantage or playing melee or range determining if you are or not a good dps?
If a person doesn't understand what area they need to stand in to get CA, they can't judge what CA gives them or not nad how to get it, can they? Or if the area part is offtopic in your opinion, why you yourself brought it up so many times...
Looks like the "Can't admit a mistake" syndrome to me.
Large area = less skill needed to hit it. Like the hit a barn with a gun idiom
A mistake syndrome? If a person doesn't understand? lol are u kidding me? that matters not if u have the exact same angle, you aint proving anything, CA is proportional to your area, meaning that a person in a 10ft radius has the exact same proportion as a person in 80ft radius.
Large area = less skill, cos u feel like it? proof? Ok lets go with theories just as you like. Lets put it you have 2kg load of bread and proportional share it among 2 people, you have 1kg each, now if you increase the amount of breads and the number of people in the same proportion, u have the exact same numbers, just that in one case you "theorically" more bread compared to the other but you are feeding more people with it. For CA you have a smaller area as melee, which results in a lot less area to cover, but with the exact same movement freedom, while the ranger has more area, and the same freedom but alot more area to cover. how does this affect gameplay? lets say u need to reposition urself as a ranger, u are going to be covering a wider area compared to the 2 steps it will take a melee class to reposition. This in no manner determines you skill as a player, you are doing the exact same thing but on different margins.
One thing is how you think a game should be played, another is enforcing ur thoughts into others, being at melee requires 0 skills, so is being at range, dont try to sell me something thats unreal, you aint speaking with someone that doesn't play the game.
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
The advantage is the arc length and larger area. Instead of standing on a relative sliver, you have a much larger area that is more forgiving simply because of it's size at that range, more forgiving for those with who play with lag, or rubber banding, or just slow reflexes . If you do have doubts about whether it's a 90 degree angle or not, go look at the stand the dummy is on and the blue/white arc around it.
Thats what i did and the cone im seeing is about 60º, not 90, there are 2 dummies here at port, the one im hitting has a 60º cone and the other one has a 90º. And even if its 90, that actually means that its the exact same thing for melee classes, u get CA as long as u are withing 90º, that doesn't require any skill that i know of.
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
Some of you have made valid points regarding the pros and cons of the changes to CA. I would strongly suggest, if you feel your points are worth while of the devs' time to take into consideration, to create a separate thread to articulate them in instead of trying to write a book here that they'll have to sift through, and likely miss your point/s.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
You kept posting in numerous posts that the area is exactly the same, we just showed you it's not. With pictures. Nothing less nothing more..
If you mistook area with angle, it's really not our fault here... Thanks for the attempted insults though, appreciate those when trying simply explain simple thing.
Ok and what does any of this has to do with rangers having an advantage or playing melee or range determining if you are or not a good dps?
If a person doesn't understand what area they need to stand in to get CA, they can't judge what CA gives them or not nad how to get it, can they? Or if the area part is offtopic in your opinion, why you yourself brought it up so many times...
Looks like the "Can't admit a mistake" syndrome to me.
Large area = less skill needed to hit it. Like the hit a barn with a gun idiom
A mistake syndrome? If a person doesn't understand? lol are u kidding me? that matters not if u have the exact same angle, you aint proving anything, CA is proportional to your area, meaning that a person in a 10ft radius has the exact same proportion as a person in 80ft radius.
Large area = less skill, cos u feel like it? proof? Ok lets go with theories just as you like. Lets put it you have 2kg load of bread and proportional share it among 2 people, you have 1kg each, now if you increase the amount of breads and the number of people in the same proportion, u have the exact same numbers, just that in one case you "theorically" more bread compared to the other but you are feeding more people with it. For CA you have a smaller area as melee, which results in a lot less area to cover, but with the exact same movement freedom, while the ranger has more area, and the same freedom but alot more area to cover. how does this affect gameplay? lets say u need to reposition urself as a ranger, u are going to be covering a wider area compared to the 2 steps it will take a melee class to reposition. This in no manner determines you skill as a player, you are doing the exact same thing but on different margins.
One thing is how you think a game should be played, another is enforcing ur thoughts into others, being at melee requires 0 skills, so is being at range, dont try to sell me something thats unreal, you aint speaking with someone that doesn't play the game.
So allow me to understand correctly, you meant area in all those posts, and it wasn't a mistake?
I actually proved the only simple thing I've posted originally, larger radius = larger area. Is there any dispute about this still?
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
You kept posting in numerous posts that the area is exactly the same, we just showed you it's not. With pictures. Nothing less nothing more..
If you mistook area with angle, it's really not our fault here... Thanks for the attempted insults though, appreciate those when trying simply explain simple thing.
Ok and what does any of this has to do with rangers having an advantage or playing melee or range determining if you are or not a good dps?
If a person doesn't understand what area they need to stand in to get CA, they can't judge what CA gives them or not nad how to get it, can they? Or if the area part is offtopic in your opinion, why you yourself brought it up so many times...
Looks like the "Can't admit a mistake" syndrome to me.
Large area = less skill needed to hit it. Like the hit a barn with a gun idiom
A mistake syndrome? If a person doesn't understand? lol are u kidding me? that matters not if u have the exact same angle, you aint proving anything, CA is proportional to your area, meaning that a person in a 10ft radius has the exact same proportion as a person in 80ft radius.
Large area = less skill, cos u feel like it? proof? Ok lets go with theories just as you like. Lets put it you have 2kg load of bread and proportional share it among 2 people, you have 1kg each, now if you increase the amount of breads and the number of people in the same proportion, u have the exact same numbers, just that in one case you "theorically" more bread compared to the other but you are feeding more people with it. For CA you have a smaller area as melee, which results in a lot less area to cover, but with the exact same movement freedom, while the ranger has more area, and the same freedom but alot more area to cover. how does this affect gameplay? lets say u need to reposition urself as a ranger, u are going to be covering a wider area compared to the 2 steps it will take a melee class to reposition. This in no manner determines you skill as a player, you are doing the exact same thing but on different margins.
One thing is how you think a game should be played, another is enforcing ur thoughts into others, being at melee requires 0 skills, so is being at range, dont try to sell me something thats unreal, you aint speaking with someone that doesn't play the game.
So allow me to understand correctly, you meant area in all those posts, and it wasn't a mistake?
I actually proved the only simple thing I've posted originally, larger radius = larger area. Is there any dispute about this still?
Oh well sorry professor, i meant angle and not area. happy sir?
You dint prove how playing at a larger area makes u less skillful than someone playing at less but with the same proportion. But yes professor, tnx for ur lectures, i'll learn to play the game my own way and not be a cow and go by the opinion of some "experts". When mod17 drops and im done testing and i consider it to be a bad move to be at range at any point, i'll adapt and play at melee, if it makes me a bad player staying at range when possible and moving to melee when required then so be it. Anything that makes u happy sir.
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
You kept posting in numerous posts that the area is exactly the same, we just showed you it's not. With pictures. Nothing less nothing more..
If you mistook area with angle, it's really not our fault here... Thanks for the attempted insults though, appreciate those when trying simply explain simple thing.
Ok and what does any of this has to do with rangers having an advantage or playing melee or range determining if you are or not a good dps?
If a person doesn't understand what area they need to stand in to get CA, they can't judge what CA gives them or not nad how to get it, can they? Or if the area part is offtopic in your opinion, why you yourself brought it up so many times...
Looks like the "Can't admit a mistake" syndrome to me.
Large area = less skill needed to hit it. Like the hit a barn with a gun idiom
A mistake syndrome? If a person doesn't understand? lol are u kidding me? that matters not if u have the exact same angle, you aint proving anything, CA is proportional to your area, meaning that a person in a 10ft radius has the exact same proportion as a person in 80ft radius.
Large area = less skill, cos u feel like it? proof? Ok lets go with theories just as you like. Lets put it you have 2kg load of bread and proportional share it among 2 people, you have 1kg each, now if you increase the amount of breads and the number of people in the same proportion, u have the exact same numbers, just that in one case you "theorically" more bread compared to the other but you are feeding more people with it. For CA you have a smaller area as melee, which results in a lot less area to cover, but with the exact same movement freedom, while the ranger has more area, and the same freedom but alot more area to cover. how does this affect gameplay? lets say u need to reposition urself as a ranger, u are going to be covering a wider area compared to the 2 steps it will take a melee class to reposition. This in no manner determines you skill as a player, you are doing the exact same thing but on different margins.
One thing is how you think a game should be played, another is enforcing ur thoughts into others, being at melee requires 0 skills, so is being at range, dont try to sell me something thats unreal, you aint speaking with someone that doesn't play the game.
So allow me to understand correctly, you meant area in all those posts, and it wasn't a mistake?
I actually proved the only simple thing I've posted originally, larger radius = larger area. Is there any dispute about this still?
Oh well sorry professor, i meant angle and not area. happy sir?
You dint prove how playing at a larger area makes u less skillful than someone playing at less but with the same proportion. But yes professor, tnx for ur lectures, i'll learn to play the game my own way and not be a cow and go by the opinion of some "experts". When mod17 drops and im done testing and i consider it to be a bad move to be at range at any point, i'll adapt and play at melee, if it makes me a bad player staying at range when possible and moving to melee when required then so be it. Anything that makes u happy sir.
What is your problem? Anyone forced you to do anything? I surely didn't.
If you are so bothered that someone corrected you after 5 posts where you wrote the same mistake, that's really your issue. I do not fling sarcastic insults. Nor I called anyone bad player.
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
You kept posting in numerous posts that the area is exactly the same, we just showed you it's not. With pictures. Nothing less nothing more..
If you mistook area with angle, it's really not our fault here... Thanks for the attempted insults though, appreciate those when trying simply explain simple thing.
Ok and what does any of this has to do with rangers having an advantage or playing melee or range determining if you are or not a good dps?
If a person doesn't understand what area they need to stand in to get CA, they can't judge what CA gives them or not nad how to get it, can they? Or if the area part is offtopic in your opinion, why you yourself brought it up so many times...
Looks like the "Can't admit a mistake" syndrome to me.
Large area = less skill needed to hit it. Like the hit a barn with a gun idiom
A mistake syndrome? If a person doesn't understand? lol are u kidding me? that matters not if u have the exact same angle, you aint proving anything, CA is proportional to your area, meaning that a person in a 10ft radius has the exact same proportion as a person in 80ft radius.
Large area = less skill, cos u feel like it? proof? Ok lets go with theories just as you like. Lets put it you have 2kg load of bread and proportional share it among 2 people, you have 1kg each, now if you increase the amount of breads and the number of people in the same proportion, u have the exact same numbers, just that in one case you "theorically" more bread compared to the other but you are feeding more people with it. For CA you have a smaller area as melee, which results in a lot less area to cover, but with the exact same movement freedom, while the ranger has more area, and the same freedom but alot more area to cover. how does this affect gameplay? lets say u need to reposition urself as a ranger, u are going to be covering a wider area compared to the 2 steps it will take a melee class to reposition. This in no manner determines you skill as a player, you are doing the exact same thing but on different margins.
One thing is how you think a game should be played, another is enforcing ur thoughts into others, being at melee requires 0 skills, so is being at range, dont try to sell me something thats unreal, you aint speaking with someone that doesn't play the game.
So allow me to understand correctly, you meant area in all those posts, and it wasn't a mistake?
I actually proved the only simple thing I've posted originally, larger radius = larger area. Is there any dispute about this still?
Oh well sorry professor, i meant angle and not area. happy sir?
You dint prove how playing at a larger area makes u less skillful than someone playing at less but with the same proportion. But yes professor, tnx for ur lectures, i'll learn to play the game my own way and not be a cow and go by the opinion of some "experts". When mod17 drops and im done testing and i consider it to be a bad move to be at range at any point, i'll adapt and play at melee, if it makes me a bad player staying at range when possible and moving to melee when required then so be it. Anything that makes u happy sir.
What is your problem?
Mine or yours? im not the one that started trying to enforce people to play in a certain way and if they dont, they are considered skilless and bad players. I definitely dint start that, all i said was "knowing mechanics and adapting to the situation, being it at melee or range, determines ur knowledge and skills more than your position in a field"
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
1
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
You kept posting in numerous posts that the area is exactly the same, we just showed you it's not. With pictures. Nothing less nothing more..
If you mistook area with angle, it's really not our fault here... Thanks for the attempted insults though, appreciate those when trying simply explain simple thing.
Ok and what does any of this has to do with rangers having an advantage or playing melee or range determining if you are or not a good dps?
If a person doesn't understand what area they need to stand in to get CA, they can't judge what CA gives them or not nad how to get it, can they? Or if the area part is offtopic in your opinion, why you yourself brought it up so many times...
Looks like the "Can't admit a mistake" syndrome to me.
Large area = less skill needed to hit it. Like the hit a barn with a gun idiom
A mistake syndrome? If a person doesn't understand? lol are u kidding me? that matters not if u have the exact same angle, you aint proving anything, CA is proportional to your area, meaning that a person in a 10ft radius has the exact same proportion as a person in 80ft radius.
Large area = less skill, cos u feel like it? proof? Ok lets go with theories just as you like. Lets put it you have 2kg load of bread and proportional share it among 2 people, you have 1kg each, now if you increase the amount of breads and the number of people in the same proportion, u have the exact same numbers, just that in one case you "theorically" more bread compared to the other but you are feeding more people with it. For CA you have a smaller area as melee, which results in a lot less area to cover, but with the exact same movement freedom, while the ranger has more area, and the same freedom but alot more area to cover. how does this affect gameplay? lets say u need to reposition urself as a ranger, u are going to be covering a wider area compared to the 2 steps it will take a melee class to reposition. This in no manner determines you skill as a player, you are doing the exact same thing but on different margins.
One thing is how you think a game should be played, another is enforcing ur thoughts into others, being at melee requires 0 skills, so is being at range, dont try to sell me something thats unreal, you aint speaking with someone that doesn't play the game.
So allow me to understand correctly, you meant area in all those posts, and it wasn't a mistake?
I actually proved the only simple thing I've posted originally, larger radius = larger area. Is there any dispute about this still?
Oh well sorry professor, i meant angle and not area. happy sir?
You dint prove how playing at a larger area makes u less skillful than someone playing at less but with the same proportion. But yes professor, tnx for ur lectures, i'll learn to play the game my own way and not be a cow and go by the opinion of some "experts". When mod17 drops and im done testing and i consider it to be a bad move to be at range at any point, i'll adapt and play at melee, if it makes me a bad player staying at range when possible and moving to melee when required then so be it. Anything that makes u happy sir.
What is your problem?
Mine or yours? im not the one that started trying to enforce people to play in a certain way and if they dont, they are considered skilless and bad players. I definitely dint start that, all i said was "knowing mechanics and adapting to the situation, being it at melee or wrong, determines ur knowledge and skills more than your position in a field"
Can I have the same thing you smoked. I'm sure it will sell well. Please quote me on all of the above.
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
You kept posting in numerous posts that the area is exactly the same, we just showed you it's not. With pictures. Nothing less nothing more..
If you mistook area with angle, it's really not our fault here... Thanks for the attempted insults though, appreciate those when trying simply explain simple thing.
Ok and what does any of this has to do with rangers having an advantage or playing melee or range determining if you are or not a good dps?
If a person doesn't understand what area they need to stand in to get CA, they can't judge what CA gives them or not nad how to get it, can they? Or if the area part is offtopic in your opinion, why you yourself brought it up so many times...
Looks like the "Can't admit a mistake" syndrome to me.
Large area = less skill needed to hit it. Like the hit a barn with a gun idiom
A mistake syndrome? If a person doesn't understand? lol are u kidding me? that matters not if u have the exact same angle, you aint proving anything, CA is proportional to your area, meaning that a person in a 10ft radius has the exact same proportion as a person in 80ft radius.
Large area = less skill, cos u feel like it? proof? Ok lets go with theories just as you like. Lets put it you have 2kg load of bread and proportional share it among 2 people, you have 1kg each, now if you increase the amount of breads and the number of people in the same proportion, u have the exact same numbers, just that in one case you "theorically" more bread compared to the other but you are feeding more people with it. For CA you have a smaller area as melee, which results in a lot less area to cover, but with the exact same movement freedom, while the ranger has more area, and the same freedom but alot more area to cover. how does this affect gameplay? lets say u need to reposition urself as a ranger, u are going to be covering a wider area compared to the 2 steps it will take a melee class to reposition. This in no manner determines you skill as a player, you are doing the exact same thing but on different margins.
One thing is how you think a game should be played, another is enforcing ur thoughts into others, being at melee requires 0 skills, so is being at range, dont try to sell me something thats unreal, you aint speaking with someone that doesn't play the game.
So allow me to understand correctly, you meant area in all those posts, and it wasn't a mistake?
I actually proved the only simple thing I've posted originally, larger radius = larger area. Is there any dispute about this still?
Oh well sorry professor, i meant angle and not area. happy sir?
You dint prove how playing at a larger area makes u less skillful than someone playing at less but with the same proportion. But yes professor, tnx for ur lectures, i'll learn to play the game my own way and not be a cow and go by the opinion of some "experts". When mod17 drops and im done testing and i consider it to be a bad move to be at range at any point, i'll adapt and play at melee, if it makes me a bad player staying at range when possible and moving to melee when required then so be it. Anything that makes u happy sir.
What is your problem?
Mine or yours? im not the one that started trying to enforce people to play in a certain way and if they dont, they are considered skilless and bad players. I definitely dint start that, all i said was "knowing mechanics and adapting to the situation, being it at melee or wrong, determines ur knowledge and skills more than your position in a field"
Can I have the same thing you smoked. I'm sure it will sell well. Please quote me on all of the above.
Not sure what you smoke, but i dont smoke and dont try to push me into it aswel. Tnx but no, like i said, i have typos from typing fast or thinking in something specific, you started being rude, im only paying you back, hope you enjoying it.
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
The advantage is the arc length and larger area. Instead of standing on a relative sliver, you have a much larger area that is more forgiving simply because of it's size at that range, more forgiving for those with who play with lag, or rubber banding, or just slow reflexes . If you do have doubts about whether it's a 90 degree angle or not, go look at the stand the dummy is on and the blue/white arc around it.
Thats what i did and the cone im seeing is about 60º, not 90, there are 2 dummies here at port, the one im hitting has a 60º cone and the other one has a 90º. And even if its 90, that actually means that its the exact same thing for melee classes, u get CA as long as u are withing 90º, that doesn't require any skill that i know of.
The dummies in Port Nyanzaru are a bad place to check the angle due to multiple NPCs, one of which is pathing, which only creates a larger arc. Here is a close up image with a single ally at the stronghold, drawn in lines to help anyone see the angle. https://imgur.com/ptxf3vZ
I will amend my earlier statement about the cone originating from the ally giving the flanking bonus, as earlier images disproves that. The origin of the cone is the target being hit.
As far as the skill argument goes, it is harder to dodge red spots and maintain CA in a smaller area (20 ft from the target) than it is further away from the target (say 80 ft). The melee ranged character needs to both dodge the attack and then get back in position (unless you dodge into the boss and not through it) where the guy at range can just dodge the attack most times and not worry about re-positioning as much due to the fact he will likely still be in position still to get CA.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Not sure what you smoke, but i dont smoke and dont try to push me into it aswel. Tnx but no, like i said, i have typos from typing fast or thinking in something specific, you started being rude, im only paying you back, hope you enjoying it.
I was rude and you get back to me? this is my first post to you:
Area of a circle sector depends on the angle and radius. In this case the angle remains the same, lets assume 90 degrees or pi/2
Area = r^2 * angle / 2
Currently (assuming radius 15)
Area = (15^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 176 squared feet
After the change (assuming radius 85)
Area = (85^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 5674 squared feet
This means an area larger by 32 times where a person can stand and get CA.
Or without math, if you can stand on a pizza slice, if you take a slice from a single person mini pizza, you get a small slice. If you get a slice from the largest pizza in the world, you get a large slice...
Where do you see anything rude? Simple explanation to someone who wrote that area stays the same.
But please do tell me where all those others things come from, where I've said anyone is a bad player, or forced anyone to play in some way. I'm waiting.
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
The advantage is the arc length and larger area. Instead of standing on a relative sliver, you have a much larger area that is more forgiving simply because of it's size at that range, more forgiving for those with who play with lag, or rubber banding, or just slow reflexes . If you do have doubts about whether it's a 90 degree angle or not, go look at the stand the dummy is on and the blue/white arc around it.
Thats what i did and the cone im seeing is about 60º, not 90, there are 2 dummies here at port, the one im hitting has a 60º cone and the other one has a 90º. And even if its 90, that actually means that its the exact same thing for melee classes, u get CA as long as u are withing 90º, that doesn't require any skill that i know of.
The dummies in Port Nyanzaru are a bad place to check the angle due to multiple NPCs, one of which is pathing, which only creates a larger arc. Here is a close up image with a single ally at the stronghold, drawn in lines to help anyone see the angle. https://imgur.com/ptxf3vZ
I will amend my earlier statement about the cone originating from the ally giving the flanking bonus, as earlier images disproves that. The origin of the cone is the target being hit.
As far as the skill argument goes, it is harder to dodge red spots and maintain CA in a smaller area (20 ft from the target) than it is further away from the target (say 80 ft). The melee ranged character needs to both dodge the attack and then get back in position (unless you dodge into the boss and not through it) where the guy at range can just dodge the attack most times and not worry about re-positioning as much due to the fact he will likely still be in position still to get CA.
Fair enough, thats 90. On the other hand, about it being it harder to dodge or not, thats only on paper cos at lon as i know, i can dodge backwards and still be in the cone. Positioning for CA doesn't determine ur skill and i'll repeat myself one last time, there are bosses where its better to be at melee and others where its better to be at range, im not sure how those proves ur skill, even if i dodge in a smaller area, its relatively easy for me to reposition due to it being precisely a much smaller area. This doesn't prove u to be better than another dps. Now if at the current mod16, anyone knows how CA works, and still stays over 15ft, thats more a lack of knowledge than skills. Dodging in a small area requires no skill as to consider you to be a better player lol. Atropal is the best example here, when u dodge the mini missiles its relatively easy to get back to ur group. what? 2s? this is enough to prove u are better than someone who is abit further away?
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
Not sure what you smoke, but i dont smoke and dont try to push me into it aswel. Tnx but no, like i said, i have typos from typing fast or thinking in something specific, you started being rude, im only paying you back, hope you enjoying it.
I was rude and you get back to me? this is my first post to you:
Area of a circle sector depends on the angle and radius. In this case the angle remains the same, lets assume 90 degrees or pi/2
Area = r^2 * angle / 2
Currently (assuming radius 15)
Area = (15^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 176 squared feet
After the change (assuming radius 85)
Area = (85^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 5674 squared feet
This means an area larger by 32 times where a person can stand and get CA.
Or without math, if you can stand on a pizza slice, if you take a slice from a single person mini pizza, you get a small slice. If you get a slice from the largest pizza in the world, you get a large slice...
Where do you see anything rude? Simple explanation to someone who wrote that area stays the same.
But please do tell me where all those others things come from, where I've said anyone is a bad player, or forced anyone to play in some way. I'm waiting.
"large area = less skill" thats enough.
You are right sir, completely right, brilliant, anyone that doesn't play at melee is trash and doesn't know anything about the game and has no skills.
That should make you happy.
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
0
Options
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
The advantage is the arc length and larger area. Instead of standing on a relative sliver, you have a much larger area that is more forgiving simply because of it's size at that range, more forgiving for those with who play with lag, or rubber banding, or just slow reflexes . If you do have doubts about whether it's a 90 degree angle or not, go look at the stand the dummy is on and the blue/white arc around it.
Thats what i did and the cone im seeing is about 60º, not 90, there are 2 dummies here at port, the one im hitting has a 60º cone and the other one has a 90º. And even if its 90, that actually means that its the exact same thing for melee classes, u get CA as long as u are withing 90º, that doesn't require any skill that i know of.
The dummies in Port Nyanzaru are a bad place to check the angle due to multiple NPCs, one of which is pathing, which only creates a larger arc. Here is a close up image with a single ally at the stronghold, drawn in lines to help anyone see the angle. https://imgur.com/ptxf3vZ
I will amend my earlier statement about the cone originating from the ally giving the flanking bonus, as earlier images disproves that. The origin of the cone is the target being hit.
As far as the skill argument goes, it is harder to dodge red spots and maintain CA in a smaller area (20 ft from the target) than it is further away from the target (say 80 ft). The melee ranged character needs to both dodge the attack and then get back in position (unless you dodge into the boss and not through it) where the guy at range can just dodge the attack most times and not worry about re-positioning as much due to the fact he will likely still be in position still to get CA.
Fair enough, thats 90. On the other hand, about it being it harder to dodge or not, thats only on paper cos at lon as i know, i can dodge backwards and still be in the cone. Positioning for CA doesn't determine ur skill and i'll repeat myself one last time, there are bosses where its better to be at melee and others where its better to be at range, im not sure how those proves ur skill, even if i dodge in a smaller area, its relatively easy for me to reposition due to it being precisely a much smaller area. This doesn't prove u to be better than another dps. Now if at the current mod16, anyone knows how CA works, and still stays over 15ft, thats more a lack of knowledge than skills. Dodging in a small area requires no skill as to consider you to be a better player lol. Atropal is the best example here, when u dodge the mini missiles its relatively easy to get back to ur group. what? 2s? this is enough to prove u are better than someone who is abit further away?
I'm not arguing whether or not one way will be more dps or not, just that you have less to worry about at range, less total movement, less stuff to do means less skill required. I still will be at melee range either way due to heal/buff proximity, and ultimately yes you will get more out of being closer.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Not sure what you smoke, but i dont smoke and dont try to push me into it aswel. Tnx but no, like i said, i have typos from typing fast or thinking in something specific, you started being rude, im only paying you back, hope you enjoying it.
I was rude and you get back to me? this is my first post to you:
Area of a circle sector depends on the angle and radius. In this case the angle remains the same, lets assume 90 degrees or pi/2
Area = r^2 * angle / 2
Currently (assuming radius 15)
Area = (15^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 176 squared feet
After the change (assuming radius 85)
Area = (85^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 5674 squared feet
This means an area larger by 32 times where a person can stand and get CA.
Or without math, if you can stand on a pizza slice, if you take a slice from a single person mini pizza, you get a small slice. If you get a slice from the largest pizza in the world, you get a large slice...
Where do you see anything rude? Simple explanation to someone who wrote that area stays the same.
But please do tell me where all those others things come from, where I've said anyone is a bad player, or forced anyone to play in some way. I'm waiting.
"large area = less skill" thats enough.
You are right sir, completely right, brilliant, anyone that doesn't play at melee is trash and doesn't know anything about the game and has no skills.
That should make you happy.
Where is that an insult or saying that players are bad? If a player has larger area to stand in, it's easier, it's as simple as that. This is why in many games I play whatever is easier and gave up on some games I loved to play. That what happens when age comes and reflexes and coordination of a sloth, I find easier things.
Where I've forced anyone to play in any way? Said anyone is bad? Or said something different to others? You have a personal problem and started with insults
Also it's 5 posts AFTER you started with the insults. So try again, and show me where I've started, and not you, because your first reply to me was an insult.
Not sure what you smoke, but i dont smoke and dont try to push me into it aswel. Tnx but no, like i said, i have typos from typing fast or thinking in something specific, you started being rude, im only paying you back, hope you enjoying it.
I was rude and you get back to me? this is my first post to you:
Area of a circle sector depends on the angle and radius. In this case the angle remains the same, lets assume 90 degrees or pi/2
Area = r^2 * angle / 2
Currently (assuming radius 15)
Area = (15^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 176 squared feet
After the change (assuming radius 85)
Area = (85^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 5674 squared feet
This means an area larger by 32 times where a person can stand and get CA.
Or without math, if you can stand on a pizza slice, if you take a slice from a single person mini pizza, you get a small slice. If you get a slice from the largest pizza in the world, you get a large slice...
Where do you see anything rude? Simple explanation to someone who wrote that area stays the same.
But please do tell me where all those others things come from, where I've said anyone is a bad player, or forced anyone to play in some way. I'm waiting.
"large area = less skill" thats enough.
You are right sir, completely right, brilliant, anyone that doesn't play at melee is trash and doesn't know anything about the game and has no skills.
That should make you happy.
Where is that an insult or saying that players are bad? If a player has larger area to stand in, it's easier, it's as simple as that. This is why in many games I play whatever is easier and gave up on some games I loved to play. That what happens when age comes and reflexes and coordination of a sloth.
Where I've forced anyone to play in any way? Said anyone is bad? Or said something different to others? You have a personal problem and started with insults
Also it's 5 posts AFTER you started with the insults. So try again, and show me where I've started, and not you, because your first reply to me was an insult.
Insult for calling you a professor while trying to lecture me on basic maths? Ok, who was the one that said someone had a syndrome? and where is my insult?
You saying that someone is less skillful cos of them playing a certain way is not very respectful to say, not to mention its very subjective. Your first comment in the post was about people having no skills if they play in a wider area.
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area
?? typo, trying to say angle, your area increases but ur angle is only proportional to the increase in area. Still this proves nothing, at melee range u are working with a 60º angle and u can move freely inbetween that 60º, going to 80ft, u have exactly 60º, but in a wider area, but it also requires more movement to cover that larger area if you had to reposition, compared to melee, its perfectly balance. Again what are you guys trying to prove with the area increase? The angle is exactly the same, in melee range u dont need to be in a perfect line, u move between ur 60º area freely and in ranged stance, its exactly the same, so what advantage are u gaining here?
The advantage is the arc length and larger area. Instead of standing on a relative sliver, you have a much larger area that is more forgiving simply because of it's size at that range, more forgiving for those with who play with lag, or rubber banding, or just slow reflexes . If you do have doubts about whether it's a 90 degree angle or not, go look at the stand the dummy is on and the blue/white arc around it.
Thats what i did and the cone im seeing is about 60º, not 90, there are 2 dummies here at port, the one im hitting has a 60º cone and the other one has a 90º. And even if its 90, that actually means that its the exact same thing for melee classes, u get CA as long as u are withing 90º, that doesn't require any skill that i know of.
The dummies in Port Nyanzaru are a bad place to check the angle due to multiple NPCs, one of which is pathing, which only creates a larger arc. Here is a close up image with a single ally at the stronghold, drawn in lines to help anyone see the angle. https://imgur.com/ptxf3vZ
I will amend my earlier statement about the cone originating from the ally giving the flanking bonus, as earlier images disproves that. The origin of the cone is the target being hit.
As far as the skill argument goes, it is harder to dodge red spots and maintain CA in a smaller area (20 ft from the target) than it is further away from the target (say 80 ft). The melee ranged character needs to both dodge the attack and then get back in position (unless you dodge into the boss and not through it) where the guy at range can just dodge the attack most times and not worry about re-positioning as much due to the fact he will likely still be in position still to get CA.
Fair enough, thats 90. On the other hand, about it being it harder to dodge or not, thats only on paper cos at lon as i know, i can dodge backwards and still be in the cone. Positioning for CA doesn't determine ur skill and i'll repeat myself one last time, there are bosses where its better to be at melee and others where its better to be at range, im not sure how those proves ur skill, even if i dodge in a smaller area, its relatively easy for me to reposition due to it being precisely a much smaller area. This doesn't prove u to be better than another dps. Now if at the current mod16, anyone knows how CA works, and still stays over 15ft, thats more a lack of knowledge than skills. Dodging in a small area requires no skill as to consider you to be a better player lol. Atropal is the best example here, when u dodge the mini missiles its relatively easy to get back to ur group. what? 2s? this is enough to prove u are better than someone who is abit further away?
I'm not arguing whether or not one way will be more dps or not, just that you have less to worry about at range, less total movement, less stuff to do means less skill required. I still will be at melee range either way due to heal/buff proximity, and ultimately yes you will get more out of being closer.
Ehhh you dont have less to worry about at range, cos u just said it, u heal/buff from proximity, which u dont get at range, hence why if you read my comment properly, you'd know what i mean when i say "adapt to what the situation requires" meaning, if its more beneficial for you to be at range, it would only be stupid to remain at melee and if its more beneficial to stay at melee, it would be stupid to remain at range. And what im trying to say with that, is there's not a scripted way of playing the game, you adapt depending on the situation of the fight, thats real skill. Me moving further away from the group with no imminent danger at range while i also gain any bonus, doesn't prove me to be less skillful, it means im doing the best to maximize my gameplay, if i need healing, or there's a mechanic that requires me to be close to the group, i'll effectively close in. Just standing behind a boss doesn't show any skill, neither is staying at 80ft. Knowing when to do one or another is more important.
I gave an example of this before with the boreworm boss that can hit you both at melee or range.
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
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This way ranged fighters would be in a disadvantage (since every movement of the flanking partner who is supposedly closer to the enemy would move the CA corridor faster at "your" end), but I could live with that.
If you mistook area with angle, it's really not our fault here... Thanks for the attempted insults though, appreciate those when trying simply explain simple thing.
What they are literally saying is that with how it is, rangers will have advantage cos they have wider area, that makes no sense, cos its the same angle for everyone, even if you are at melee and lets say you go on a 225º from ur ally, you still get CA, you dont need to be at 270º to get CA.
Or if the area part is offtopic in your opinion, why you yourself brought it up so many times...
Looks like the "Can't admit a mistake" syndrome to me.
Large area = less skill needed to hit it. Like the hit a barn with a gun idiom
Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
Large area = less skill, cos u feel like it? proof? Ok lets go with theories just as you like. Lets put it you have 2kg load of bread and proportional share it among 2 people, you have 1kg each, now if you increase the amount of breads and the number of people in the same proportion, u have the exact same numbers, just that in one case you "theorically" more bread compared to the other but you are feeding more people with it. For CA you have a smaller area as melee, which results in a lot less area to cover, but with the exact same movement freedom, while the ranger has more area, and the same freedom but alot more area to cover. how does this affect gameplay? lets say u need to reposition urself as a ranger, u are going to be covering a wider area compared to the 2 steps it will take a melee class to reposition. This in no manner determines you skill as a player, you are doing the exact same thing but on different margins.
One thing is how you think a game should be played, another is enforcing ur thoughts into others, being at melee requires 0 skills, so is being at range, dont try to sell me something thats unreal, you aint speaking with someone that doesn't play the game.
I actually proved the only simple thing I've posted originally, larger radius = larger area. Is there any dispute about this still?
You dint prove how playing at a larger area makes u less skillful than someone playing at less but with the same proportion. But yes professor, tnx for ur lectures, i'll learn to play the game my own way and not be a cow and go by the opinion of some "experts". When mod17 drops and im done testing and i consider it to be a bad move to be at range at any point, i'll adapt and play at melee, if it makes me a bad player staying at range when possible and moving to melee when required then so be it. Anything that makes u happy sir.
If you are so bothered that someone corrected you after 5 posts where you wrote the same mistake, that's really your issue. I do not fling sarcastic insults. Nor I called anyone bad player.
I will amend my earlier statement about the cone originating from the ally giving the flanking bonus, as earlier images disproves that. The origin of the cone is the target being hit.
As far as the skill argument goes, it is harder to dodge red spots and maintain CA in a smaller area (20 ft from the target) than it is further away from the target (say 80 ft). The melee ranged character needs to both dodge the attack and then get back in position (unless you dodge into the boss and not through it) where the guy at range can just dodge the attack most times and not worry about re-positioning as much due to the fact he will likely still be in position still to get CA.
Here your question: My reply: Where do you see anything rude? Simple explanation to someone who wrote that area stays the same.
But please do tell me where all those others things come from, where I've said anyone is a bad player, or forced anyone to play in some way.
I'm waiting.
You are right sir, completely right, brilliant, anyone that doesn't play at melee is trash and doesn't know anything about the game and has no skills.
That should make you happy.
Where I've forced anyone to play in any way? Said anyone is bad? Or said something different to others? You have a personal problem and started with insults
Also it's 5 posts AFTER you started with the insults.
So try again, and show me where I've started, and not you, because your first reply to me was an insult.
You saying that someone is less skillful cos of them playing a certain way is not very respectful to say, not to mention its very subjective. Your first comment in the post was about people having no skills if they play in a wider area.
I gave an example of this before with the boreworm boss that can hit you both at melee or range.