All of the old content is balanced around making everyone melee to do damage so mechanics ignore a lot of ranged classes.
Wrong. The HR's feat "Aspect of the pack" gave CA to every team member at ANY range. And everyone relied on that feat once a HR was in the team.
We are talking about positional CA though. Not abilities that give CA.
You claimed that in the past there was no CA for ranged dps and that the content was build around it. I just invalidated that statement. Nothing more.
It was inferred to mean positional CA and not skill based CA.
Absolutely no difference, again, not sure what is so hard for you to understand lol, by increasing the range of CA, you are only removing the limitations that was in the game regarding ranged classes. Seriously, there are people that chose ranged classes because they dont want to play at melee range all the time and expect to atleast have a choice to build their characters the way they want. You chose barbie cos in previous mods they were on top of the dps chart for a longasz period. In previous mods you have CA regardless of where u were on the field, basically anyone and i mean anyone, even barbies, could give CA in previous mods and was there any range advantage? No, so why are u so frightened about rangers having more CA width? What doesn't make sense is forcing all classes to play at melee just to gain CA with is "not a buff", but a game mechanic.
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
All of the old content is balanced around making everyone melee to do damage so mechanics ignore a lot of ranged classes.
Wrong. The HR's feat "Aspect of the pack" gave CA to every team member at ANY range. And everyone relied on that feat once a HR was in the team.
We are talking about positional CA though. Not abilities that give CA.
Dude, not even sure where to start with you, i have been trying to read all ur comments but they literally make no sense at this point. CA having a wider range will not give ranged classes any advantage in the game, we had CA at any range in every other mod, this makes no difference, a gameplay is not a written script, there are intervals where u'll need to be at melee and others where range is safer, thats why the need for CA to be unrestricted to just melee. Me moving back to 50 ft with no imminent danger, has nothing to do with me getting more damage, CA caps at 100% damage for all classes, increasing the range to 85ft will not make rangers go up to 185%, i will still be 100%, same for melee classes. So what is your whole point? where are you even trying to push it? I repeat, CA has been in the game forever, you could have it at any range, the only issue with mod16 is that there was a transition, where feats are now locked to paragons and you cant have certain feats that give you CA at any range if you chose a paragon over another. Whats so hard to understand here? Am i typing in chinese?
We aren't that far off as your taking my comments to mean that I think increased damage to mean that I think CA increases the damage above and beyond 100% in the damage formula or that it stacks which I never stated. I am saying that the up time of CA for ranged with this change will increase the amount of time to get the CA damage buff. This will essentially be a straight buff to ranged classes with the changes to how often you can get CA this mod. When you don't have the buff you do less damage. The reason for the increase in damage is that the more often you have the CA buff the better damage you do. The change from the old mod to this mod is the amount of time skills that give CA are giving them to the party due to cool downs and more skills being rewritten to only give the user CA instead of party CA. They also removed CA from a most things in game meaning that positioning to get CA is more important than ever before. All players are getting CA a lot less often than in the last mod which it was 100% up time due to high recovery players who could spam abilities that gave the party CA (you know those pesky buffers we had to get rid of from last mod). That is no longer the case in the game. A lot of the arguments are on hypothetical amounts of time you get CA and increases to damage the longer you have CA. The players who have been arguing with me have been making cases that getting CA at 85 ft won't increase ranged dps meaning that they think they already have it all of the time or that CA doesn't increase damage. They have also been arguing on when a dps class gets CA in melee vs ranged and which get it more often.
We are also not talking about a script to the fights but strategies on how to best utilize game mechanics that are potentially changing. The combat will never be scripted. The best way to use mechanics with this change COULD change the best strategy of where to stand.
You just stated that moving away 50 ft from the enemies to not be in "danger" doesn't give you more damage. Well, your less likely to have CA from last mod at 50 ft and won't get positional CA but, with the changes to 85 ft could very well have CA at that range. Since you also stated your in a more "Safe" place at this range then isn't it also expected that you can attack the mobs or boss more frequent than a melee class that needs to not be in a "Safe" place to do their damage? Giving you more CA buff time should increase the damage you do from a hypothetical stand point as well unless your arguing that CA doesn't increase damage the more often you have it. There are a lot of unknown variables in this since we don't know how much extra damage having CA up more frequent at range will do (all I keep hearing in this is that increasing the range of CA won't increase damage they do in a dungeon). We don't know how much damage being in melee range and dodging attacks reduces melee combatants damage. We also don't know the full effects of reducing mobility of melee classes this mod and the damage that reduces to them.
they already responded that if you scroll up, but yh literally its as easy as "you still need someone to do flanking before getting CA" so its not like a ranged class gets into battle and automatically have CA, you are only thinking on paper, not realistically, the game doesn't play that way, rangers have wider CA range, but again, if the fight requires it, those rangers will have to fight in melee stance and not range, you still need someone doing the flanking, so no such advantage you are talking about, melee and ranged classes will have CA at more or less the same time.
There is a tank and healer that aren't limited to where they stand. What I have been saying is all theoretical on if ranged classes would become the best strategy.
Guild Leader: Under the Influence Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
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therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
Which is why I said there should be other benefits to standing at range. For example, gear like the long range rings could give significantly higher bonuses than 3%, because it is compensating for a lack of CA, or something like that. Building around standing at a certain distance could and should imo be an interesting part of gameplay. Having a wide range easy to stand in cone be the definition of CA just makes it less interesting.
Or, the Devs could cross our expectations about widening the CA area and not just make the arc proportionally larger. Maybe a corridor that does not wide up any further after 20' or something like that.
Tbh I am not even sure why I (or anyone else for that matter) bothers arguing here about it. It is changed, it probably is not changing back, it is a moot point. I think it is just disappointing that there isn't really a reward for careful positioning. Imo CA should have stayed as is and there should have been other benefits to stand at ranged. Also the positioning requirements should in general be more strict, to make it harder to meet them.
Well nothing personal here, you are a cw i respect alot and mostly agree with your takes and i have to agree that CA requirement should be more strict, and ofc its ur opinion, but i dont see melee stance being the only viable choice ingame, like i said before there are many bosses in the game where its better for rangers to stay as rangers and close in when any mechanic requires it. i've seen videos about Tomm, its mainly a static boss fight but even then, there are mechanics that require the group to split or to stay together, which means that u are not going to be 100% at melee, and that definitely doesn't determine who is or not a good dps, learning the mechanics and adapting to them, requires more skill and more important IMO, whether it means u have to fight at melee or range, as long as u are going with the mechanic, thats all that matters, not ur positioning.
Which is why I said there should be other benefits to standing at range. For example, gear like the long range rings could give significantly higher bonuses than 3%, because it is compensating for a lack of CA, or something like that. Building around standing at a certain distance could and should imo be an interesting part of gameplay. Having a wide range easy to stand in cone be the definition of CA just makes it less interesting.
And yes, changing the range of CA won't make good wizards suddenly do more damage, they had CA already, but it does make bad wizards do more damage, because they could accidentally easily stand in the range of CA now and that is a big part of why I don't like this change. It is rewarding people who do not think about positioning at all, as opposed to rewarding people who DO think about it. A positional advantage based on standing at a certain range in a DIFFERENT arc would be interesting for example. Just making the range of CA bigger is not an interesting mechanical change or 1 that adds value.
Well i dont think there's an amount of bonus that could cover up for CA, but the CA itself. What do you consider to be a good or bad wizard? I dont think they can stand at 50ft all fight, like i said previous, the game has room for strategies, not just talking from the point of ToMM, cos we'd only be focusing on META. I for one likes doing different dungeons if im bored and different bosses require different mechanics, for example take trobriant as an example, the game mechanic forces u to be at the center, so u cant just go off and hit from 80ft, cos the mechanic is forcing u to play at a certain range and u have to go with the mechanic. Now take the boreworm as another example, where there's no limitations in the room, the boss has a swipe power that can knock you back, also has the power that can also knock you prone if you are too close and tank loses aggro (mainly happens to the top dps), it also has a power that pulls u close if you are too far away, which means u wont just completely be at range without taking damage, and after the pull u'll most likely need some heals from ur healer. Orcus, ras nsi and different bosses have different mechanics, that will require u to either be close to the group, move away from boss or stay at mid-range. Playing just at melee doesn't show whether or not u are a good dps, neither does playing just at range. Knowing the mechanics and adapting to each situation does. Ofc if there's a boss where u can stay at range and gain abit more damage but refuse to do so, is also a lack of skill and knowledge IMO.
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
My perfect scenario of damage is all classes are balanced within a 3% variance of damage. Right now the variance I am seeing at top levels is about a ~30% difference between the best dps class wizard and the worst classes (take your pick - SW/TR/Barb/Fighter) after taking into consideration player abilities.
How do you quantify the bolded class with the other 3? I don't think the DPS of the bolded class even exists.
Those 4 classes are pretty well balanced at end game when you play with them on good players. You must not play with many of them that have adapted to the new mod and play style.
Guild Leader: Under the Influence Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
All of the old content is balanced around making everyone melee to do damage so mechanics ignore a lot of ranged classes.
Wrong. The HR's feat "Aspect of the pack" gave CA to every team member at ANY range. And everyone relied on that feat once a HR was in the team.
We are talking about positional CA though. Not abilities that give CA.
Dude, not even sure where to start with you, i have been trying to read all ur comments but they literally make no sense at this point. CA having a wider range will not give ranged classes any advantage in the game, we had CA at any range in every other mod, this makes no difference, a gameplay is not a written script, there are intervals where u'll need to be at melee and others where range is safer, thats why the need for CA to be unrestricted to just melee. Me moving back to 50 ft with no imminent danger, has nothing to do with me getting more damage, CA caps at 100% damage for all classes, increasing the range to 85ft will not make rangers go up to 185%, i will still be 100%, same for melee classes. So what is your whole point? where are you even trying to push it? I repeat, CA has been in the game forever, you could have it at any range, the only issue with mod16 is that there was a transition, where feats are now locked to paragons and you cant have certain feats that give you CA at any range if you chose a paragon over another. Whats so hard to understand here? Am i typing in chinese?
We aren't that far off as your taking my comments to mean that I think increased damage to mean that I think CA increases the damage above and beyond 100% in the damage formula or that it stacks which I never stated. I am saying that the up time of CA for ranged with this change will increase the amount of time to get the CA damage buff. This will essentially be a straight buff to ranged classes with the changes to how often you can get CA this mod. When you don't have the buff you do less damage. The reason for the increase in damage is that the more often you have the CA buff the better damage you do. The change from the old mod to this mod is the amount of time skills that give CA are giving them to the party due to cool downs and more skills being rewritten to only give the user CA instead of party CA. They also removed CA from a most things in game meaning that positioning to get CA is more important than ever before. All players are getting CA a lot less often than in the last mod which it was 100% up time due to high recovery players who could spam abilities that gave the party CA (you know those pesky buffers we had to get rid of from last mod). That is no longer the case in the game. A lot of the arguments are on hypothetical amounts of time you get CA and increases to damage the longer you have CA. The players who have been arguing with me have been making cases that getting CA at 85 ft won't increase ranged dps meaning that they think they already have it all of the time or that CA doesn't increase damage. They have also been arguing on when a dps class gets CA in melee vs ranged and which get it more often.
We are also not talking about a script to the fights but strategies on how to best utilize game mechanics that are potentially changing. The combat will never be scripted. The best way to use mechanics with this change COULD change the best strategy of where to stand.
You just stated that moving away 50 ft from the enemies to not be in "danger" doesn't give you more damage. Well, your less likely to have CA from last mod at 50 ft and won't get positional CA but, with the changes to 85 ft could very well have CA at that range. Since you also stated your in a more "Safe" place at this range then isn't it also expected that you can attack the mobs or boss more frequent than a melee class that needs to not be in a "Safe" place to do their damage? Giving you more CA buff time should increase the damage you do from a hypothetical stand point as well unless your arguing that CA doesn't increase damage the more often you have it. There are a lot of unknown variables in this since we don't know how much extra damage having CA up more frequent at range will do (all I keep hearing in this is that increasing the range of CA won't increase damage they do in a dungeon). We don't know how much damage being in melee range and dodging attacks reduces melee combatants damage. We also don't know the full effects of reducing mobility of melee classes this mod and the damage that reduces to them.
they already responded that if you scroll up, but yh literally its as easy as "you still need someone to do flanking before getting CA" so its not like a ranged class gets into battle and automatically have CA, you are only thinking on paper, not realistically, the game doesn't play that way, rangers have wider CA range, but again, if the fight requires it, those rangers will have to fight in melee stance and not range, you still need someone doing the flanking, so no such advantage you are talking about, melee and ranged classes will have CA at more or less the same time.
There is a tank and healer that aren't limited to where they stand. What I have been saying is all theoretical on if ranged classes would become the best strategy.
EH? What are u talking about tank and healer not being limited to where they stand? Healer, just like every other class needs someone on the opposite flank to be able to gain CA. what am i missing here and what are u not understanding? I repeat, u dont get CA just by going into battle, no class does, its either u have a class feature that gives u CA, or wait for someone to position or u try positioning yourself. So where's the ranged advantage here?
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
Without a doubt correct (unless the Devs do not just increase the CA area as a simply larger arc), but I fail to see how you could derive a quality feature for a "good dps" from the ability to stay in the CA area. There are much more things going on in a fight that require good observation skills.
It does not matter if there is other stuff going on in the fight, by virtue of it being harder to remain inside of the arc at a smaller range, it requires more skill to do.
It does. But that does not make you a better dps. You still fail to prove that point in my opinion.
If it requires more skill to do something, then on the basis of skill the player that does do it is better than the player who does not. The player who does take the time to position for CA, does more damage and thus if your only measure of a dps is how much damage they deal, they will be a better dps because their damage will be higher. By extending the area in which you can get CA, by the virtue of there being less total area where you CANNOT get CA, a player positioned at random is more likely to have CA than before. This means that by increasing the area in which you can get CA, you are reducing the skill cap for all dps who have the option to play at ranged.
There you go, there is your proof.
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
So when I say that it has always worked like this, there is something to back it instead of just demanding people take my word for it.
Mod 16 was a full revamp on the game and CA should have been adjusted as the gear we get for ranged dps state we need to be 50' or further away to get bonus to our CA which IMO shows that CA should be granted regardless of the range. Chalk this up as another miss by the development team.
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therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
Without a doubt correct (unless the Devs do not just increase the CA area as a simply larger arc), but I fail to see how you could derive a quality feature for a "good dps" from the ability to stay in the CA area. There are much more things going on in a fight that require good observation skills.
It does not matter if there is other stuff going on in the fight, by virtue of it being harder to remain inside of the arc at a smaller range, it requires more skill to do.
It does. But that does not make you a better dps. You still fail to prove that point in my opinion.
If it requires more skill to do something, then on the basis of skill the player that does do it is better than the player who does not. The player who does take the time to position for CA, does more damage and thus if your only measure of a dps is how much damage they deal, they will be a better dps because their damage will be higher. By extending the area in which you can get CA, by the virtue of there being less total area where you CANNOT get CA, a player positioned at random is more likely to have CA than before. This means that by increasing the area in which you can get CA, you are reducing the skill cap for all dps who have the option to play at ranged.
There you go, there is your proof.
Actually not. Because this is only one fraction of the things that a "good" Player has to observe. If he is extremely careful About positioning but neglects all the other things that are important, this does not make him a "good" dps. On the other hand, if he is extremely careful about all the other things, but Neglects positioning, he is still a "good" dps.
So, no. No proof. Just your opinion. (Which is ok.)
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Without a doubt correct (unless the Devs do not just increase the CA area as a simply larger arc), but I fail to see how you could derive a quality feature for a "good dps" from the ability to stay in the CA area. There are much more things going on in a fight that require good observation skills.
It does not matter if there is other stuff going on in the fight, by virtue of it being harder to remain inside of the arc at a smaller range, it requires more skill to do.
It does. But that does not make you a better dps. You still fail to prove that point in my opinion.
If it requires more skill to do something, then on the basis of skill the player that does do it is better than the player who does not. The player who does take the time to position for CA, does more damage and thus if your only measure of a dps is how much damage they deal, they will be a better dps because their damage will be higher. By extending the area in which you can get CA, by the virtue of there being less total area where you CANNOT get CA, a player positioned at random is more likely to have CA than before. This means that by increasing the area in which you can get CA, you are reducing the skill cap for all dps who have the option to play at ranged.
There you go, there is your proof.
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
There is an arc, 90 degrees wide with the person giving the positional CA bonus as center of the circle in the direction of the boss. The further out you go, the wider the arc is going to be, giving a rather large area out to 85' away from the tank.
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Without a doubt correct (unless the Devs do not just increase the CA area as a simply larger arc), but I fail to see how you could derive a quality feature for a "good dps" from the ability to stay in the CA area. There are much more things going on in a fight that require good observation skills.
It does not matter if there is other stuff going on in the fight, by virtue of it being harder to remain inside of the arc at a smaller range, it requires more skill to do.
It does. But that does not make you a better dps. You still fail to prove that point in my opinion.
If it requires more skill to do something, then on the basis of skill the player that does do it is better than the player who does not. The player who does take the time to position for CA, does more damage and thus if your only measure of a dps is how much damage they deal, they will be a better dps because their damage will be higher. By extending the area in which you can get CA, by the virtue of there being less total area where you CANNOT get CA, a player positioned at random is more likely to have CA than before. This means that by increasing the area in which you can get CA, you are reducing the skill cap for all dps who have the option to play at ranged.
There you go, there is your proof.
Actually not. Because this is only one fraction of the things that a "good" Player has to observe. If he is extremely careful About positioning but neglects all the other things that are important, this does not make him a "good" dps. On the other hand, if he is extremely careful about all the other things, but Neglects positioning, he is still a "good" dps.
So, no. No proof. Just your opinion. (Which is ok.)
How does missing a 100% damage bonus still make one a "good dps"
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Without a doubt correct (unless the Devs do not just increase the CA area as a simply larger arc), but I fail to see how you could derive a quality feature for a "good dps" from the ability to stay in the CA area. There are much more things going on in a fight that require good observation skills.
It does not matter if there is other stuff going on in the fight, by virtue of it being harder to remain inside of the arc at a smaller range, it requires more skill to do.
It does. But that does not make you a better dps. You still fail to prove that point in my opinion.
If it requires more skill to do something, then on the basis of skill the player that does do it is better than the player who does not. The player who does take the time to position for CA, does more damage and thus if your only measure of a dps is how much damage they deal, they will be a better dps because their damage will be higher. By extending the area in which you can get CA, by the virtue of there being less total area where you CANNOT get CA, a player positioned at random is more likely to have CA than before. This means that by increasing the area in which you can get CA, you are reducing the skill cap for all dps who have the option to play at ranged.
There you go, there is your proof.
Actually not. Because this is only one fraction of the things that a "good" Player has to observe. If he is extremely careful About positioning but neglects all the other things that are important, this does not make him a "good" dps. On the other hand, if he is extremely careful about all the other things, but Neglects positioning, he is still a "good" dps.
So, no. No proof. Just your opinion. (Which is ok.)
CA is a 100% increase to your critsev "pool". Not paying attention to CA means that on average, a bis player is losing out on an extra 56% damage multiplier that they could potentially have. So no, a dps not paying attention to CA is not a good dps.
And the thing is, that same player in your example above paying attention to CA will perform significantly better then if they did not. By paying attention to 1 more thing, they have improved their performance, by a large margin. Are you really trying to argue that doing n+1 things is not harder than doing n things?
How does missing a 100% damage bonus still make one a "good dps"
I'd rather prefer a ranger in my team who takes very good care of his Flurry cycle but neglects positioning over a ranger who wastes his encounters but stays in the CA area, for example.
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
How does missing a 100% damage bonus still make one a "good dps"
I'd rather prefer a ranger in my team who takes very good care of his Flurry cycle but neglects positioning over a ranger who wastes his encounters but stays in the CA area, for example.
And they would do so much more if they just shifted that small movement over to get CA and then encounter/flurry.
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therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
CA is a 100% increase to your critsev "pool". Not paying attention to CA means that on average, a bis player is losing out on an extra 56% damage multiplier that they could potentially have. So no, a dps not paying attention to CA is not a good dps.
And the thing is, that same player in your example above paying attention to CA will perform significantly better then if they did not. By paying attention to 1 more thing, they have improved their performance, by a large margin. Are you really trying to argue that doing n+1 things is not harder than doing n things?
Not significantly, no. If you have to cook a dinner for 10 people it does not matter much if in the end there are 11 people. The additional effort you have to make is minimal. Same with the Combat. You observe 10 things, observing an 11th thing will not let you break out in a Sweat.
Your numbers maybe right for BiS Players, but - and that's just a guess from me - the majority of Players have not maxed out their CA skill (yet). Granted, the damage is less still, but the missing damage from neglecting positioning fades into the missing damage when you neglect the other important things.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
How does missing a 100% damage bonus still make one a "good dps"
I'd rather prefer a ranger in my team who takes very good care of his Flurry cycle but neglects positioning over a ranger who wastes his encounters but stays in the CA area, for example.
A ranger who positions correctly and completely ignores their feats will likely do more damage than a ranger who pays attention to them but ignores CA, that is how critical combat advantage is.
How does missing a 100% damage bonus still make one a "good dps"
I'd rather prefer a ranger in my team who takes very good care of his Flurry cycle but neglects positioning over a ranger who wastes his encounters but stays in the CA area, for example.
And they would do so much more if they just shifted that small movement over to get CA and then encounter/flurry.
This was a hypothetical "either-or"-scenario. ;-)
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therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
A ranger who positions correctly and completely ignores their feats will likely do more damage than a ranger who pays attention to them but ignores CA, that is how critical combat advantage is.
With maxed out CA stat and maxed out vorpal weapon enchantment, yes. Probably. But anything less will likely not compensate the missing +100% damage from the free will powers.
Without a doubt correct (unless the Devs do not just increase the CA area as a simply larger arc), but I fail to see how you could derive a quality feature for a "good dps" from the ability to stay in the CA area. There are much more things going on in a fight that require good observation skills.
It does not matter if there is other stuff going on in the fight, by virtue of it being harder to remain inside of the arc at a smaller range, it requires more skill to do.
It does. But that does not make you a better dps. You still fail to prove that point in my opinion.
If it requires more skill to do something, then on the basis of skill the player that does do it is better than the player who does not. The player who does take the time to position for CA, does more damage and thus if your only measure of a dps is how much damage they deal, they will be a better dps because their damage will be higher. By extending the area in which you can get CA, by the virtue of there being less total area where you CANNOT get CA, a player positioned at random is more likely to have CA than before. This means that by increasing the area in which you can get CA, you are reducing the skill cap for all dps who have the option to play at ranged.
There you go, there is your proof.
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
There is an arc, 90 degrees wide with the person giving the positional CA bonus as center of the circle in the direction of the boss. The further out you go, the wider the arc is going to be, giving a rather large area out to 85' away from the tank.
the only way to prove someone wrong is by testing, i just went on preview and the area was exactly the same as in melee range. so what am i missing?
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
All of the old content is balanced around making everyone melee to do damage so mechanics ignore a lot of ranged classes.
Wrong. The HR's feat "Aspect of the pack" gave CA to every team member at ANY range. And everyone relied on that feat once a HR was in the team.
We are talking about positional CA though. Not abilities that give CA.
Dude, not even sure where to start with you, i have been trying to read all ur comments but they literally make no sense at this point. CA having a wider range will not give ranged classes any advantage in the game, we had CA at any range in every other mod, this makes no difference, a gameplay is not a written script, there are intervals where u'll need to be at melee and others where range is safer, thats why the need for CA to be unrestricted to just melee. Me moving back to 50 ft with no imminent danger, has nothing to do with me getting more damage, CA caps at 100% damage for all classes, increasing the range to 85ft will not make rangers go up to 185%, i will still be 100%, same for melee classes. So what is your whole point? where are you even trying to push it? I repeat, CA has been in the game forever, you could have it at any range, the only issue with mod16 is that there was a transition, where feats are now locked to paragons and you cant have certain feats that give you CA at any range if you chose a paragon over another. Whats so hard to understand here? Am i typing in chinese?
We aren't that far off as your taking my comments to mean that I think increased damage to mean that I think CA increases the damage above and beyond 100% in the damage formula or that it stacks which I never stated. I am saying that the up time of CA for ranged with this change will increase the amount of time to get the CA damage buff. This will essentially be a straight buff to ranged classes with the changes to how often you can get CA this mod. When you don't have the buff you do less damage. The reason for the increase in damage is that the more often you have the CA buff the better damage you do. The change from the old mod to this mod is the amount of time skills that give CA are giving them to the party due to cool downs and more skills being rewritten to only give the user CA instead of party CA. They also removed CA from a most things in game meaning that positioning to get CA is more important than ever before. All players are getting CA a lot less often than in the last mod which it was 100% up time due to high recovery players who could spam abilities that gave the party CA (you know those pesky buffers we had to get rid of from last mod). That is no longer the case in the game. A lot of the arguments are on hypothetical amounts of time you get CA and increases to damage the longer you have CA. The players who have been arguing with me have been making cases that getting CA at 85 ft won't increase ranged dps meaning that they think they already have it all of the time or that CA doesn't increase damage. They have also been arguing on when a dps class gets CA in melee vs ranged and which get it more often.
We are also not talking about a script to the fights but strategies on how to best utilize game mechanics that are potentially changing. The combat will never be scripted. The best way to use mechanics with this change COULD change the best strategy of where to stand.
You just stated that moving away 50 ft from the enemies to not be in "danger" doesn't give you more damage. Well, your less likely to have CA from last mod at 50 ft and won't get positional CA but, with the changes to 85 ft could very well have CA at that range. Since you also stated your in a more "Safe" place at this range then isn't it also expected that you can attack the mobs or boss more frequent than a melee class that needs to not be in a "Safe" place to do their damage? Giving you more CA buff time should increase the damage you do from a hypothetical stand point as well unless your arguing that CA doesn't increase damage the more often you have it. There are a lot of unknown variables in this since we don't know how much extra damage having CA up more frequent at range will do (all I keep hearing in this is that increasing the range of CA won't increase damage they do in a dungeon). We don't know how much damage being in melee range and dodging attacks reduces melee combatants damage. We also don't know the full effects of reducing mobility of melee classes this mod and the damage that reduces to them.
they already responded that if you scroll up, but yh literally its as easy as "you still need someone to do flanking before getting CA" so its not like a ranged class gets into battle and automatically have CA, you are only thinking on paper, not realistically, the game doesn't play that way, rangers have wider CA range, but again, if the fight requires it, those rangers will have to fight in melee stance and not range, you still need someone doing the flanking, so no such advantage you are talking about, melee and ranged classes will have CA at more or less the same time.
There is a tank and healer that aren't limited to where they stand. What I have been saying is all theoretical on if ranged classes would become the best strategy.
EH? What are u talking about tank and healer not being limited to where they stand? Healer, just like every other class needs someone on the opposite flank to be able to gain CA. what am i missing here and what are u not understanding? I repeat, u dont get CA just by going into battle, no class does, its either u have a class feature that gives u CA, or wait for someone to position or u try positioning yourself. So where's the ranged advantage here?
The healer and tank can flank is what I am saying and your not getting. What your not getting is adding a second person on the flank doubles the amount of area that is open for dps to stand while making the monsters have to run 5x the distance to not have positional CA.
Guild Leader: Under the Influence Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
How does missing a 100% damage bonus still make one a "good dps"
I'd rather prefer a ranger in my team who takes very good care of his Flurry cycle but neglects positioning over a ranger who wastes his encounters but stays in the CA area, for example.
And they would do so much more if they just shifted that small movement over to get CA and then encounter/flurry.
This was a hypothetical "either-or"-scenario. ;-)
@therealprotex I don't think you realize how important CA is. Let me put it to you this way, a hunter with no feats allocated at all but who positions for CA will do roughly the same as a hunter who has all of them, but does not have CA. Every single one of your feats combined is worth about the same as combat advantage.
And if you want to argue about non capped CA? Cool, say you only get half the benefit of CA instead of the full benefit, now its worth as much as 2 of your feats instead of all 5. There is no way you can spin this that makes CA a non critical part of gameplay, thinking it does not is a serious mistake to make.
Without a doubt correct (unless the Devs do not just increase the CA area as a simply larger arc), but I fail to see how you could derive a quality feature for a "good dps" from the ability to stay in the CA area. There are much more things going on in a fight that require good observation skills.
It does not matter if there is other stuff going on in the fight, by virtue of it being harder to remain inside of the arc at a smaller range, it requires more skill to do.
It does. But that does not make you a better dps. You still fail to prove that point in my opinion.
If it requires more skill to do something, then on the basis of skill the player that does do it is better than the player who does not. The player who does take the time to position for CA, does more damage and thus if your only measure of a dps is how much damage they deal, they will be a better dps because their damage will be higher. By extending the area in which you can get CA, by the virtue of there being less total area where you CANNOT get CA, a player positioned at random is more likely to have CA than before. This means that by increasing the area in which you can get CA, you are reducing the skill cap for all dps who have the option to play at ranged.
There you go, there is your proof.
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
There is an arc, 90 degrees wide with the person giving the positional CA bonus as center of the circle in the direction of the boss. The further out you go, the wider the arc is going to be, giving a rather large area out to 85' away from the tank.
the only way to prove someone wrong is by testing, i just went on preview and the area was exactly the same as in melee range. so what am i missing?
Area of a circle sector depends on the angle and radius. In this case the angle remains the same, lets assume 90 degrees or pi/2
Area = r^2 * angle / 2
Currently (assuming radius 15)
Area = (15^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 176 squared feet
After the change (assuming radius 85)
Area = (85^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 5674 squared feet
This means an area larger by 32 times where a person can stand and get CA.
Or without math, if you can stand on a pizza slice, if you take a slice from a single person mini pizza, you get a small slice. If you get a slice from the largest pizza in the world, you get a large slice...
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
A ranger who positions correctly and completely ignores their feats will likely do more damage than a ranger who pays attention to them but ignores CA, that is how critical combat advantage is.
With maxed out CA stat and maxed out vorpal weapon enchantment, yes. Probably. But anything less will likely not compensate the missing +100% damage from the free will powers.
You get higher increase without vorpal, And even higher without maxed crit. Even higher with 0 crit. So that assertion of only BiS (or similar) is false.
And how is that 'power' is +100% damage? Adding anything into a rotation is doesn't double your damage. Rotation is not empty time.
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Without a doubt correct (unless the Devs do not just increase the CA area as a simply larger arc), but I fail to see how you could derive a quality feature for a "good dps" from the ability to stay in the CA area. There are much more things going on in a fight that require good observation skills.
It does not matter if there is other stuff going on in the fight, by virtue of it being harder to remain inside of the arc at a smaller range, it requires more skill to do.
It does. But that does not make you a better dps. You still fail to prove that point in my opinion.
If it requires more skill to do something, then on the basis of skill the player that does do it is better than the player who does not. The player who does take the time to position for CA, does more damage and thus if your only measure of a dps is how much damage they deal, they will be a better dps because their damage will be higher. By extending the area in which you can get CA, by the virtue of there being less total area where you CANNOT get CA, a player positioned at random is more likely to have CA than before. This means that by increasing the area in which you can get CA, you are reducing the skill cap for all dps who have the option to play at ranged.
There you go, there is your proof.
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
There is an arc, 90 degrees wide with the person giving the positional CA bonus as center of the circle in the direction of the boss. The further out you go, the wider the arc is going to be, giving a rather large area out to 85' away from the tank.
the only way to prove someone wrong is by testing, i just went on preview and the area was exactly the same as in melee range. so what am i missing?
Did you actually test this? I just went on preview as well, my companion did not move, but I did move quite a bit and maintained CA, and that is at a relatively close range still. https://imgur.com/HdFTkAW
Without a doubt correct (unless the Devs do not just increase the CA area as a simply larger arc), but I fail to see how you could derive a quality feature for a "good dps" from the ability to stay in the CA area. There are much more things going on in a fight that require good observation skills.
It does not matter if there is other stuff going on in the fight, by virtue of it being harder to remain inside of the arc at a smaller range, it requires more skill to do.
It does. But that does not make you a better dps. You still fail to prove that point in my opinion.
If it requires more skill to do something, then on the basis of skill the player that does do it is better than the player who does not. The player who does take the time to position for CA, does more damage and thus if your only measure of a dps is how much damage they deal, they will be a better dps because their damage will be higher. By extending the area in which you can get CA, by the virtue of there being less total area where you CANNOT get CA, a player positioned at random is more likely to have CA than before. This means that by increasing the area in which you can get CA, you are reducing the skill cap for all dps who have the option to play at ranged.
There you go, there is your proof.
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
There is an arc, 90 degrees wide with the person giving the positional CA bonus as center of the circle in the direction of the boss. The further out you go, the wider the arc is going to be, giving a rather large area out to 85' away from the tank.
the only way to prove someone wrong is by testing, i just went on preview and the area was exactly the same as in melee range. so what am i missing?
Area of a circle sector depends on the angle and radius. In this case the angle remains the same, lets assume 90 degrees or pi/2
Area = r^2 * angle / 2
Currently (assuming radius 15)
Area = (15^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 176 squared feet
After the change (assuming radius 85)
Area = (85^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 5674 squared feet
This means an area larger by 32 times where a person can stand and get CA.
Or without math, if you can stand on a pizza slice, if you take a slice from a single person mini pizza, you get a small slice. If you get a slice from the largest pizza in the world, you get a large slice...
I finished college/university as an engineer, but thanks. Anyway what you are saying is that because the area is wider, i can get CA regardless of my positioning "on paper" but have you even tested how it works? or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area, the moment u move away from the right position you stop getting CA, which means u still need to position properly to get that 90 degree area. So yes just the same as if you were actually at melee range, nothing changes, anything else professor?
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Without a doubt correct (unless the Devs do not just increase the CA area as a simply larger arc), but I fail to see how you could derive a quality feature for a "good dps" from the ability to stay in the CA area. There are much more things going on in a fight that require good observation skills.
It does not matter if there is other stuff going on in the fight, by virtue of it being harder to remain inside of the arc at a smaller range, it requires more skill to do.
It does. But that does not make you a better dps. You still fail to prove that point in my opinion.
If it requires more skill to do something, then on the basis of skill the player that does do it is better than the player who does not. The player who does take the time to position for CA, does more damage and thus if your only measure of a dps is how much damage they deal, they will be a better dps because their damage will be higher. By extending the area in which you can get CA, by the virtue of there being less total area where you CANNOT get CA, a player positioned at random is more likely to have CA than before. This means that by increasing the area in which you can get CA, you are reducing the skill cap for all dps who have the option to play at ranged.
There you go, there is your proof.
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
There is an arc, 90 degrees wide with the person giving the positional CA bonus as center of the circle in the direction of the boss. The further out you go, the wider the arc is going to be, giving a rather large area out to 85' away from the tank.
the only way to prove someone wrong is by testing, i just went on preview and the area was exactly the same as in melee range. so what am i missing?
Area of a circle sector depends on the angle and radius. In this case the angle remains the same, lets assume 90 degrees or pi/2
Area = r^2 * angle / 2
Currently (assuming radius 15)
Area = (15^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 176 squared feet
After the change (assuming radius 85)
Area = (85^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 5674 squared feet
This means an area larger by 32 times where a person can stand and get CA.
Or without math, if you can stand on a pizza slice, if you take a slice from a single person mini pizza, you get a small slice. If you get a slice from the largest pizza in the world, you get a large slice...
I finished college/university as an engineer, but thanks.
but have you even tested how it works? or are you just here spitting theories? going to 80ft doesn't increase ur area, the moment u move away from the right position you stop getting CA, which means u still need to position properly to get that 90 degree area. So yes just the same as if you were actually at melee range, nothing changes, anything else professor?
Without a doubt correct (unless the Devs do not just increase the CA area as a simply larger arc), but I fail to see how you could derive a quality feature for a "good dps" from the ability to stay in the CA area. There are much more things going on in a fight that require good observation skills.
It does not matter if there is other stuff going on in the fight, by virtue of it being harder to remain inside of the arc at a smaller range, it requires more skill to do.
It does. But that does not make you a better dps. You still fail to prove that point in my opinion.
If it requires more skill to do something, then on the basis of skill the player that does do it is better than the player who does not. The player who does take the time to position for CA, does more damage and thus if your only measure of a dps is how much damage they deal, they will be a better dps because their damage will be higher. By extending the area in which you can get CA, by the virtue of there being less total area where you CANNOT get CA, a player positioned at random is more likely to have CA than before. This means that by increasing the area in which you can get CA, you are reducing the skill cap for all dps who have the option to play at ranged.
There you go, there is your proof.
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
There is an arc, 90 degrees wide with the person giving the positional CA bonus as center of the circle in the direction of the boss. The further out you go, the wider the arc is going to be, giving a rather large area out to 85' away from the tank.
the only way to prove someone wrong is by testing, i just went on preview and the area was exactly the same as in melee range. so what am i missing?
Did you actually test this? I just went on preview as well, my companion did not move, but I did move quite a bit and maintained CA, and that is at a relatively close range still. https://imgur.com/HdFTkAW
Looking at the image where I have 2 dummies with CA, it looks like as long as both allies are somewhere in that 90 degree arc, on either side, that CA will be applies, making the area in which CA can be applied even larger.
Without a doubt correct (unless the Devs do not just increase the CA area as a simply larger arc), but I fail to see how you could derive a quality feature for a "good dps" from the ability to stay in the CA area. There are much more things going on in a fight that require good observation skills.
It does not matter if there is other stuff going on in the fight, by virtue of it being harder to remain inside of the arc at a smaller range, it requires more skill to do.
It does. But that does not make you a better dps. You still fail to prove that point in my opinion.
If it requires more skill to do something, then on the basis of skill the player that does do it is better than the player who does not. The player who does take the time to position for CA, does more damage and thus if your only measure of a dps is how much damage they deal, they will be a better dps because their damage will be higher. By extending the area in which you can get CA, by the virtue of there being less total area where you CANNOT get CA, a player positioned at random is more likely to have CA than before. This means that by increasing the area in which you can get CA, you are reducing the skill cap for all dps who have the option to play at ranged.
There you go, there is your proof.
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
There is an arc, 90 degrees wide with the person giving the positional CA bonus as center of the circle in the direction of the boss. The further out you go, the wider the arc is going to be, giving a rather large area out to 85' away from the tank.
the only way to prove someone wrong is by testing, i just went on preview and the area was exactly the same as in melee range. so what am i missing?
Did you actually test this? I just went on preview as well, my companion did not move, but I did move quite a bit and maintained CA, and that is at a relatively close range still. https://imgur.com/HdFTkAW
and what am i seeing here? isn't this obvious? it requires u more movement, and u have a lagger area as the distance increase, isn't this basic geometry? What you are not saying is that u still need to flank to get the CA bonus and the moment u move outside the flanking arc, u are losing CA. From ur imagine u are still in the right position cos the area is a cone, it only makes sense for that cone to increase the further away from ur target u are, this doesn't mean that if you stay on exactly 90º from ur ally u are getting CA, thats not 90º, more like 60º at best. so yes you are exaggerating.
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
Without a doubt correct (unless the Devs do not just increase the CA area as a simply larger arc), but I fail to see how you could derive a quality feature for a "good dps" from the ability to stay in the CA area. There are much more things going on in a fight that require good observation skills.
It does not matter if there is other stuff going on in the fight, by virtue of it being harder to remain inside of the arc at a smaller range, it requires more skill to do.
It does. But that does not make you a better dps. You still fail to prove that point in my opinion.
If it requires more skill to do something, then on the basis of skill the player that does do it is better than the player who does not. The player who does take the time to position for CA, does more damage and thus if your only measure of a dps is how much damage they deal, they will be a better dps because their damage will be higher. By extending the area in which you can get CA, by the virtue of there being less total area where you CANNOT get CA, a player positioned at random is more likely to have CA than before. This means that by increasing the area in which you can get CA, you are reducing the skill cap for all dps who have the option to play at ranged.
There you go, there is your proof.
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
There is an arc, 90 degrees wide with the person giving the positional CA bonus as center of the circle in the direction of the boss. The further out you go, the wider the arc is going to be, giving a rather large area out to 85' away from the tank.
the only way to prove someone wrong is by testing, i just went on preview and the area was exactly the same as in melee range. so what am i missing?
Did you actually test this? I just went on preview as well, my companion did not move, but I did move quite a bit and maintained CA, and that is at a relatively close range still. https://imgur.com/HdFTkAW
Looking at the image where I have 2 dummies with CA, it looks like as long as both allies are somewhere in that 90 degree arc, on either side, that CA will be applies, making the area in which CA can be applied even larger.
yes cos CA works are a circle, not a straight line, with CA companions u have 360º, so what is ur point here? the more you expand a surface, the larger the area becomes, isn't that common sense? even at melee range u can see that what you are getting is a cone and dont need to be at a perfect line to gain CA
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Without a doubt correct (unless the Devs do not just increase the CA area as a simply larger arc), but I fail to see how you could derive a quality feature for a "good dps" from the ability to stay in the CA area. There are much more things going on in a fight that require good observation skills.
It does not matter if there is other stuff going on in the fight, by virtue of it being harder to remain inside of the arc at a smaller range, it requires more skill to do.
It does. But that does not make you a better dps. You still fail to prove that point in my opinion.
If it requires more skill to do something, then on the basis of skill the player that does do it is better than the player who does not. The player who does take the time to position for CA, does more damage and thus if your only measure of a dps is how much damage they deal, they will be a better dps because their damage will be higher. By extending the area in which you can get CA, by the virtue of there being less total area where you CANNOT get CA, a player positioned at random is more likely to have CA than before. This means that by increasing the area in which you can get CA, you are reducing the skill cap for all dps who have the option to play at ranged.
There you go, there is your proof.
Mate, as far as im aware, what was increased was the range, not the area, which means u still need to be exactly at the opposite flank from ur allies to gain CA, its not just standing at any spot, but u need to position properly even from range.
There is an arc, 90 degrees wide with the person giving the positional CA bonus as center of the circle in the direction of the boss. The further out you go, the wider the arc is going to be, giving a rather large area out to 85' away from the tank.
the only way to prove someone wrong is by testing, i just went on preview and the area was exactly the same as in melee range. so what am i missing?
Did you actually test this? I just went on preview as well, my companion did not move, but I did move quite a bit and maintained CA, and that is at a relatively close range still. https://imgur.com/HdFTkAW
Looking at the image where I have 2 dummies with CA, it looks like as long as both allies are somewhere in that 90 degree arc, on either side, that CA will be applies, making the area in which CA can be applied even larger.
yes cos CA works are a circle, not a straight line, with CA companions u have 360º, so what is ur point here? the more you expand a surface, the larger the area becomes, isn't that common sense? even at melee range u can see that what you are getting is a cone and dont need to be at a perfect line to gain CA
This is what we are trying to say to you yes. Earlier you said that the area doesn't increase as range increases.
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Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
What do you consider to be a good or bad wizard?
I dont think they can stand at 50ft all fight, like i said previous, the game has room for strategies, not just talking from the point of ToMM, cos we'd only be focusing on META. I for one likes doing different dungeons if im bored and different bosses require different mechanics, for example take trobriant as an example, the game mechanic forces u to be at the center, so u cant just go off and hit from 80ft, cos the mechanic is forcing u to play at a certain range and u have to go with the mechanic. Now take the boreworm as another example, where there's no limitations in the room, the boss has a swipe power that can knock you back, also has the power that can also knock you prone if you are too close and tank loses aggro (mainly happens to the top dps), it also has a power that pulls u close if you are too far away, which means u wont just completely be at range without taking damage, and after the pull u'll most likely need some heals from ur healer. Orcus, ras nsi and different bosses have different mechanics, that will require u to either be close to the group, move away from boss or stay at mid-range. Playing just at melee doesn't show whether or not u are a good dps, neither does playing just at range. Knowing the mechanics and adapting to each situation does. Ofc if there's a boss where u can stay at range and gain abit more damage but refuse to do so, is also a lack of skill and knowledge IMO.
Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
Mod 16 was a full revamp on the game and CA should have been adjusted as the gear we get for ranged dps state we need to be 50' or further away to get bonus to our CA which IMO shows that CA should be granted regardless of the range. Chalk this up as another miss by the development team.
So, no. No proof. Just your opinion. (Which is ok.)
And the thing is, that same player in your example above paying attention to CA will perform significantly better then if they did not. By paying attention to 1 more thing, they have improved their performance, by a large margin. Are you really trying to argue that doing n+1 things is not harder than doing n things?
Your numbers maybe right for BiS Players, but - and that's just a guess from me - the majority of Players have not maxed out their CA skill (yet). Granted, the damage is less still, but the missing damage from neglecting positioning fades into the missing damage when you neglect the other important things.
Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
And if you want to argue about non capped CA? Cool, say you only get half the benefit of CA instead of the full benefit, now its worth as much as 2 of your feats instead of all 5. There is no way you can spin this that makes CA a non critical part of gameplay, thinking it does not is a serious mistake to make.
Area = r^2 * angle / 2
Currently (assuming radius 15)
Area = (15^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 176 squared feet
After the change (assuming radius 85)
Area = (85^2 * pi /2) / 2 = 5674 squared feet
This means an area larger by 32 times where a person can stand and get CA.
Or without math, if you can stand on a pizza slice, if you take a slice from a single person mini pizza, you get a small slice. If you get a slice from the largest pizza in the world, you get a large slice...
And how is that 'power' is +100% damage? Adding anything into a rotation is doesn't double your damage. Rotation is not empty time.
Contradicts this: I've clearly increased only the radius and not the angle. Your attempts at sarcastic insults would have worked better if you actually understood how area works.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_sector#Area
Out of range of CoS (50) and with CA:
https://i.imgur.com/7TqkTli.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CYKaphI.jpg