Why would you seriously release any kind of MOD or update without thoroughly testing the quality of your product?
It was tested. Thoroughly and by many people. They said the exact same thing then what we are saying now after release. This is not unknown to them, it was said in alpha and beta. It was, apparently, completely ignored as they were happy with the scaling and that it is in a good place.
It is now being spin doctored to be only tweaks that need to be done in certain places and mobs instead of their massive miscalculation across all zones and dungeons.
In a sick and twisted way I want Tiamat to stay unchanged. Tiamat in mod 15 was a joke, 20 out of the 25 ppl had no clue what so ever the mechanic in that Epic Trial were. Now for players in mod 16 to go in, still with no clue how to do the trial, and expect to make it through is quite ambitious. Imagine if someone made a 25 man party, split it up so that everyone knew the mechanic. Tanks would learn how to bounce aggro, dps and healers would not carelessly stand in 3 red zones and expect to take 0 damage. Just maybe would Tiamat be doable.
If Tiamat stays unchanged and the response from the developers are 'this is how the trial is meant to be player'. Players would know how HAMSTER they actually are, no more can you run as a one-man-army and expect to complete an Epic Trial of such difficulty. It would be a wake up call to the entire Neverwinter community, that in the past 1 and a half year. We have not been playing Neverwinter, but rather Steamroll-Dungeon-Runners, perhaps it's time to play Neverwinter again? Play as a team, communicate with the team, learn the mechanics? Thoughts? Opinions?
Interesting view point. So... we SHOULD play the way YOU and a few others think we should, we should have ZERO expectations that is game was/should be a" CHOOSE" your own playstyle and level of toughness. That we should get all the best lvl gear, enchants, mounts and still be almost to weak to play the game?? Is that NOT why "YOU" gear up, put enchants in, upgrade pets, companions, mount insignias, so that the content gets EASIER??? OMG. Just because you feel YOU should never be able to ONE SHOT anything, does not mean WE should feel that way to. Just because I can one shot/2 shot or 3 shot an enemy does NOT mean I do not know the Mechanics, it means I have a VERY POWERFUL toon. I KNOW THE MECHANICS as does a lot of players.
Though I do agree there are quite a few that are clueless, but so was I when I started. I try to teach those players the "CORRCT" way, I do insult them, or complain to the Devs to change the game so that they will learn how to play "PROPERLY". I feel that is the responsibility of the PLAYERS..
I am in a Guild of players who have stated playing since BETA .. I have played EVERY character for years and years and years and years and years and years. I KNOW how to play the Dungeons, skirmishes as a lot of others do as well. The whole purpose of this game is.... play, spend a little cash, and become an unstoppable killer so that Tiamat, CC, ToS, SoT, etc. ect. becomes EASIER NOT HARDER.
All prior mods allowed "YOU" to play at your desired level of toughness. If a Dungeon was to easy, all you had to do was remove your gear, enchants, mounts, companions... etc. and it would have be HORRIBLY hard. How about this, gear yourself up in level 50 to 55 gear, (NO ENCHANTS ) unsummon your pets, and enter TIAMAT.. TODAY. But DO NOT TELL ME HOW I AM SUPPOSE TO PLAY THIS GAME!! Play your style and let us play ours.. Period!!!!!! Thank you.
This is the first time in D&D history where leveling up is a bad thing.
Any system that punishes players for getting stronger is generally a bad idea. Instead of having the victory trumpet and holy light when leveling up now you should play some sort of death march and darken the screen to a dull grey.
Currently, your scaling system is basically saying "Hey! You're too strong/progressed too much so we're going to punish you by making it harder for you to earn the lesser rewards here! Hopefully this will keep you away from doing the easy content/helping your lower level friends!"
Whoever thought that was a good idea, and everyone that nodded and went along with it, clearly didn't test it themselves in practice. Furthermore having this automated is only going to make things much harder when you add future mods or when "your resources have moved to other jobs". Keep it simple and remove scaling altogether. It will save you a ton of work later.
I agree with the giant, nitocris has a HAMSTER job right now, and there's no need to yell at her. The ones who should communicate right now are the project managers and producers, but they seem to be a bunch of cowards.
I don't know of many, if any posters in this thread, so far, yelling at the community manager. What I have observed are numerous well-founded observations and commentary critical of the colossal screw-up that Mod 16 is (and which Cryptic staff were warned about repeatedly for months on end). The particular community manager in question has at times actively gone out of her way to try to put a positive spin on Mod 16 - that may be her job, you could say, but it goes beyond that - especially on the Reddit Neverwinter forum. When you start spouting propaganda that is immediately shown to be false, yes, you will (and should) lose credibility.
Based on years' worth of hands-on experience with NW and those running it, I suspect the whole department could do with yet another thorough house-cleaning of staff....Similar to what happened after Mod 6 IIRC. At the very least, new competent & clued-in management seems to be sorely needed there.
Yes please help them. Like the countless people that helped point out these same exact issues over the last 6+ weeks. This request is nothing more than a way to get feedback out of the preview threads. Sadly, the feedback is pretty much copy and paste from preview since the same issues still exist.
I am in 100% agreement with you there. However, once it hits preview, it's pretty much going live as is. Beating up on a forum community manager does not make the game better. Unfortunately, since Cryptic has always been hands off with the community, and sadly still is, the player base has little choice but to complain to the forum community manager for this OBVIOUSLY RUSHED MOD.
I was not kidding in the least that Nito deserves a full time slot and a raise, this is a thankless job most times, and her verbiage is carefully crafted for her by those making far more money.. those bean counters we never get to meet on the forum, and never will. She is very limited in what she can say, especially in a raging environment such as this one..
As for why we would try to assist? Well that's easy. We love D&D, Neverwinter and the friends we've met along the way. Instead of beating up forum moderators who have no say in any of this, I think it would be more productive to try to help the devs get this squared away. They messed up, no question. But now it's time to look forward.
Now, that being said.. the cost of cryptic doing this scaling redesign now and messing up the communication piece is THIS (From a very loyal player) :
While others have done a great job outlining the various issues and how badly the scaling has been handled, I wanted to add my voice to those who are very unhappy with it and expect changes to be made. Will be withholding spending real money until the scaling is fixed and the broken dungeons are fixed. No AD for Random runs is linked to me not paying you real money.
I too am VERY unhappy how the scaling was handled. THIS was discussed in ALPHA. Changing this now in 2019 and bundling it with a GREAT content mod, is INSANITY.
But it's done and we are going to try to do something productive. Ball's in your court Cryptic.
While I comprehend your point of view, and am not wholly indifferent to the sentiments expressed therein, I also find that I am feeling far less charitable and forgiving of Cryptic & Co. These sorts of SNAFUs happen so frequently in this game, that it has become the expected norm - not the exception; it's a running joke these days and has been for years, unfortunately. (Which also makes me feel a bit sad as I imagine it can be quite demoralizing for those actively working on the NW team. Still, repeated incompetence is not to be tolerated blithely in my view - especially not after they've received months' worth of feedback detailing these very same issues.)
I welcome the scaling system with open arm. Previously player steamroll low lvl dungeon and left behind new player. After that players suggesting dungein scaling. Now dungeon scaling has been implemented the only problem to lock any dungeons that are not properly scale till fixed.
8
feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
I'll just add my voice to the chorus. Scaling is a complete mess. Level 70 was nerfed, the new level 80 is about as effective as old level 68, and we're expected to play dungeons when we're nerfed even further than that? It make no sense. It was always the wrong answer to the wrong question. Since progression to level 80 is quick, it would be much more logical to simply scale all the dungeons to current level 80 and THEN do whatever nerfing of mobs and bosses is necessary to make them playable.
Of course, all this was obvious and KNOWN long before mod 16 went live.
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Last update was Friday evening, which is 5 days ago, or 2 business days. Considering the hours the devs worked leading up to the release, they needed the weekend to get some rest and spend time with families. If we don't get some sort of patch or update by the end of this week though, then we would be well within our rights to call them out.
Last update was Friday evening, which is 5 days ago, or 2 business days. Considering the hours the devs worked leading up to the release, they needed the weekend to get some rest and spend time with families. If we don't get some sort of patch or update by the end of this week though, then we would be well within our rights to call them out.
If this problem was unexpected, sure, give them some time to fix it. But in reality this has been brought to their attention from numberous people over the last two months. But it was obviouly "fine" and "in the place we want it to be". There are no excuses for this mess.
> @arazith07 said: > Last update was Friday evening, which is 5 days ago, or 2 business days. Considering the hours the devs worked leading up to the release, they needed the weekend to get some rest and spend time with families. If we don't get some sort of patch or update by the end of this week though, then we would be well within our rights to call them out.
How much are they paying you.... Just like the streamer who knew nothing about the game.
2
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
> Last update was Friday evening, which is 5 days ago, or 2 business days. Considering the hours the devs worked leading up to the release, they needed the weekend to get some rest and spend time with families. If we don't get some sort of patch or update by the end of this week though, then we would be well within our rights to call them out.
How much are they paying you.... Just like the streamer who knew nothing about the game.
No one is paying me, I see those who make this game as people. Who have busy schedules and have made numerous changes every week to the game in both the preview stage and the opening week of M16. Should they have waited to release a more polished product...most definitely. But that is not the fault of the developers, but lies with those they answer to. To expect them to have a patch right after a weekend, is asking a bit much, especially when there is a lot that does need to be fixed.
> @arazith07 said: > > @arazith07 said: > > > Last update was Friday evening, which is 5 days ago, or 2 business days. Considering the hours the devs worked leading up to the release, they needed the weekend to get some rest and spend time with families. If we don't get some sort of patch or update by the end of this week though, then we would be well within our rights to call them out. > > > > How much are they paying you.... Just like the streamer who knew nothing about the game. > > No one is paying me, I see those who make this game as people. Who have busy schedules and have made numerous changes every week to the game in both the preview stage and the opening week of M16. Should they have waited to release a more polished product...most definitely. But that is not the fault of the developers, but lies with those they answer to. To expect them to have a patch right after a weekend, is asking a bit much, especially when there is a lot that does need to be fixed.
You are a fool, they told us it was in a good place and there is nothing wrong. They should have waited now the game is unplayable.
0
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Scaling is fine though, it is working how the developers wanted it to work, and once you adapt to the new system it's not that bad. Being able to basically run through a dungeon, hardly stopping to fight was broken. Now we need actual skill and be smart about where we stack our stats. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's not working as intended. And yes there are things that are scaled incorrectly and need attention, and that is what this thread is for...but everyone who is attacking the devs is derailing the conversation away from those legitimate issues. If you are unhappy about how scaling works, there are plenty of other threads for it.
8
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
Please link a video of you completing ToNG, CR or mSP.
Because unless you can, I'm calling BS.
Sure list dungeons that are bugged or have over scaled monsters, but don't mention ones that are working like FBI and CN among many others. It's one thing to say something specific isn't working, like Withers activating too many traps or the souls having too much HP compared to the rest of the dungeon, and another thing to say everything in general is not working as the developers intended. This thread is to point out the issues within the system.
> @arazith07 said: > @arazith07 said "Scaling is fine" > > > > Please link a video of you completing ToNG, CR or mSP. > > > > Because unless you can, I'm calling BS. > > Sure list dungeons that are bugged or have over scaled monsters, but don't mention ones that are working like FBI and CN among many others. It's one thing to say something specific isn't working, like Withers activating too many traps or the souls having too much HP compared to the rest of the dungeon, and another thing to say everything in general is not working as the developers intended. This thread is to point out the issues within the system.
That is point people are trying to make, 90% of the scaling is off. Just as you complain that the person mentions known issues in T9, CR etc..... you do the same thing and mention the few they didn't screw up in fbi and they fixed cn it was broke at start.
Why can't people just admit this (even i you like this mod): the mod was hastily released with way too many KNOWN BUGS that the devs were aware of from.the preview testers and they dd nothing about it. This mod was released to hit a certain release date, it didn't matter if it was completely broken they were still going to ship it out to.us. That is the biggest frustration right now.
5
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
I am not denying that there does need to be work, what I have been saying is to give them time to fix and test it themselves. I will disagree that 90% of scaling is off, more like 30% of the dungeons and most of that is due to specific bosses or monsters. And yes most do say that this was a hasty release, but that is not on the developers themselves, but their bosses. If you look at all the state of the preview just one month away from launch and the launch itself, there was a lot of bug fixes and changes, and some things broke in the process of updating live as we saw with CN. So we can't say they haven't been fixing things. Again this is mainly on the producers or whoever else set the deadline. Now let's hope that there is a patch this week that will fix more bugs and scaling, and another after that, and another until the game is in an acceptable state.
I am not denying that there does need to be work, what I have been saying is to give them time to fix and test it themselves. I will disagree that 90% of scaling is off, more like 30% of the dungeons and most of that is due to specific bosses or monsters. And yes most do say that this was a hasty release, but that is not on the developers themselves, but their bosses. If you look at all the state of the preview just one month away from launch and the launch itself, there was a lot of bug fixes and changes, and some things broke in the process of updating live as we saw with CN. So we can't say they haven't been fixing things. Again this is mainly on the producers or whoever else set the deadline. Now let's hope that there is a patch this week that will fix more bugs and scaling, and another after that, and another until the game is in an acceptable state.
Or. We could. You know. Hold them accountable for releasing a rushed, buggy, slap-dash mess of a job....
Do you remember a time when game developers were expected to release a finished, completed product? Man, them were the days...
5
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Yes, we should hold those who set the date of release accountable. But I doubt that would be the devs who decided it.
I welcome the scaling system with open arm. Previously player steamroll low lvl dungeon and left behind new player. After that players suggesting dungein scaling. Now dungeon scaling has been implemented the only problem to lock any dungeons that are not properly scale till fixed.
Lmao do you even know whose fault this was?? Cryptic... they made ''Random leveling queues'' available to lvl 70 characters, what did you expect? people to say no to an easy 9k ad?
Love these types of comments ...
The biggest problem is that they implemeted scalling so people wouldn't feel that the game is losing players and your q's would pop-up faster. A lvl 80 should never be in a dungeon with a lvl 70 or bellow that.
They worked on the mod for over a year and they couldn't add a new dungeon tier only for lvl 80 players, and even after 1 year they still released one of the most bugged mods until now, thats why people are so mad
Yes, we should hold those who set the date of release accountable. But I doubt that would be the devs who decided it.
All should be held accountable. The Devs that didn't listen to feedback, the idiots that forced it out early. Everyone involved should be held accountable to their degree of responsibility and should suffer in accordance. And right now, that means making our displeasure clear and very much voting with our Wallets. I once again say that it is time to stop buying zen, or even attempting to exchange AD for it (because people will stop buying Zen to sell for AD if they can never get anything for it). THeir corporate checking account is all that these people understand...so send a message...
It wasn't my fault I beat the next dps by 800mil in a random msp. Those folks were lucky I was there to carry them. I've only played 2 years here, but I worked hard to grind up my toon. New level 70's shouldn't have the ease I do. I worked for it. Well, as you can tell by my avatar...Im back on STO. Sadly I have 90days more vip, so I'll stop back everyday, get my key, and jump back on STO. The game now sucks, and you're doing nothing but making folks move on. Good Job.
The twigs in the hill encounter in Barovia (can't remember the name) take about five people to stop and to take down. They ignore any CC a rouge has (like Dazing Strike).
Comments
It is now being spin doctored to be only tweaks that need to be done in certain places and mobs instead of their massive miscalculation across all zones and dungeons.
Though I do agree there are quite a few that are clueless, but so was I when I started. I try to teach those players the "CORRCT" way, I do insult them, or complain to the Devs to change the game so that they will learn how to play "PROPERLY". I feel that is the responsibility of the PLAYERS..
I am in a Guild of players who have stated playing since BETA .. I have played EVERY character for years and years and years and years and years and years. I KNOW how to play the Dungeons, skirmishes as a lot of others do as well. The whole purpose of this game is.... play, spend a little cash, and become an unstoppable killer so that Tiamat, CC, ToS, SoT, etc. ect. becomes EASIER NOT HARDER.
All prior mods allowed "YOU" to play at your desired level of toughness. If a Dungeon was to easy, all you had to do was remove your gear, enchants, mounts, companions... etc. and it would have be HORRIBLY hard. How about this, gear yourself up in level 50 to 55 gear, (NO ENCHANTS ) unsummon your pets, and enter TIAMAT.. TODAY. But DO NOT TELL ME HOW I AM SUPPOSE TO PLAY THIS GAME!! Play your style and let us play ours.. Period!!!!!! Thank you.
Any system that punishes players for getting stronger is generally a bad idea. Instead of having the victory trumpet and holy light when leveling up now you should play some sort of death march and darken the screen to a dull grey.
Currently, your scaling system is basically saying "Hey! You're too strong/progressed too much so we're going to punish you by making it harder for you to earn the lesser rewards here! Hopefully this will keep you away from doing the easy content/helping your lower level friends!"
Whoever thought that was a good idea, and everyone that nodded and went along with it, clearly didn't test it themselves in practice. Furthermore having this automated is only going to make things much harder when you add future mods or when "your resources have moved to other jobs". Keep it simple and remove scaling altogether. It will save you a ton of work later.
Based on years' worth of hands-on experience with NW and those running it, I suspect the whole department could do with yet another thorough house-cleaning of staff....Similar to what happened after Mod 6 IIRC. At the very least, new competent & clued-in management seems to be sorely needed there.
The pitchforks and torches are warranted.
Of course, all this was obvious and KNOWN long before mod 16 went live.
> Last update was Friday evening, which is 5 days ago, or 2 business days. Considering the hours the devs worked leading up to the release, they needed the weekend to get some rest and spend time with families. If we don't get some sort of patch or update by the end of this week though, then we would be well within our rights to call them out.
How much are they paying you.... Just like the streamer who knew nothing about the game.
> > @arazith07 said:
>
> > Last update was Friday evening, which is 5 days ago, or 2 business days. Considering the hours the devs worked leading up to the release, they needed the weekend to get some rest and spend time with families. If we don't get some sort of patch or update by the end of this week though, then we would be well within our rights to call them out.
>
>
>
> How much are they paying you.... Just like the streamer who knew nothing about the game.
>
> No one is paying me, I see those who make this game as people. Who have busy schedules and have made numerous changes every week to the game in both the preview stage and the opening week of M16. Should they have waited to release a more polished product...most definitely. But that is not the fault of the developers, but lies with those they answer to. To expect them to have a patch right after a weekend, is asking a bit much, especially when there is a lot that does need to be fixed.
You are a fool, they told us it was in a good place and there is nothing wrong. They should have waited now the game is unplayable.
Please link a video of you completing ToNG, CR or mSP.
Because unless you can, I'm calling BS.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
> @arazith07 said "Scaling is fine"
>
>
>
> Please link a video of you completing ToNG, CR or mSP.
>
>
>
> Because unless you can, I'm calling BS.
>
> Sure list dungeons that are bugged or have over scaled monsters, but don't mention ones that are working like FBI and CN among many others. It's one thing to say something specific isn't working, like Withers activating too many traps or the souls having too much HP compared to the rest of the dungeon, and another thing to say everything in general is not working as the developers intended. This thread is to point out the issues within the system.
That is point people are trying to make, 90% of the scaling is off. Just as you complain that the person mentions known issues in T9, CR etc..... you do the same thing and mention the few they didn't screw up in fbi and they fixed cn it was broke at start.
Why can't people just admit this (even i you like this mod): the mod was hastily released with way too many KNOWN BUGS that the devs were aware of from.the preview testers and they dd nothing about it. This mod was released to hit a certain release date, it didn't matter if it was completely broken they were still going to ship it out to.us. That is the biggest frustration right now.
Do you remember a time when game developers were expected to release a finished, completed product? Man, them were the days...
Lmao do you even know whose fault this was?? Cryptic... they made ''Random leveling queues'' available to lvl 70 characters, what did you expect? people to say no to an easy 9k ad?
Love these types of comments ...
The biggest problem is that they implemeted scalling so people wouldn't feel that the game is losing players and your q's would pop-up faster. A lvl 80 should never be in a dungeon with a lvl 70 or bellow that.
They worked on the mod for over a year and they couldn't add a new dungeon tier only for lvl 80 players, and even after 1 year they still released one of the most bugged mods until now, thats why people are so mad
The twigs's durability is just ridiculous.