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[PC] Dungeon Scaling

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  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    I wonder if today's patch will fix the issue with maze engine dailies which have been unplayable because of the scaling (you get downscaled, but the mobs are many, many levels above you). This also makes the challenge campaign quests annoyingly hard.

    This has been noted as a "known issue", but the patch notes do not mention this being fixed.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,093 Arc User
    another thing is mobs damage need to be lowered in tiamant, tank role paragons need to have all their paragon powers generate aggro, queue system need to apply 1 tank/1healer/3dps to all queues due to the removal of life steal skirmishs/cta events need healer and tank or we will stop queueing for dungeons/skirmish/trials and start log in for daily MEX on all chars and log off.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    I have a lot of books to catch up on, while I can watch netflix shows while I play , hard to read.

    anything is better atm, Im sort of pissed I hit lvl 71 with some of my toons.

    Wish I could turn it all off at lvl 70.. so I can just do a couple dungeons and a few weeklies and log off..

  • empalasempalas Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 800 Arc User
    edited May 2019

    I have a lot of books to catch up on, while I can watch netflix shows while I play , hard to read.

    anything is better atm, Im sort of pissed I hit lvl 71 with some of my toons.

    Wish I could turn it all off at lvl 70.. so I can just do a couple dungeons and a few weeklies and log off..

    The shame in this is even at level 70 you are item scaled in level 70 zones. Which means in the future in the level 80 zones they have you will be item scaled. Granted at 70 the IL scaling alone isn't as bad as level and IL scaling combined.
  • valsmigeravalsmigera Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    New scaling system is terrible.
    Stats of character is have not impact in new system. Character 16+ = character 23+. Their stats
    are equal! Why character with 15 stones equal character with 9 stones?
    Many dungeons is very hard. Malabog castle is equal fangbreaker island! Party is run one and the other equal time.
    Why are improve the character? Destroy the scaling system or leave it for level 70 and below. It's a easy solution for this problem and will suit the players.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    hey, my lvl 70 pally had around 80k in all stats, now that im lvl 80 with 100k stats. when i visit lvl 70 zone i get scaled down to 45-50k in stats.
    by upgrading my character, i lost around 150k stats. WoRkS aS iNtEnDeD.

    also solution. if it gets scaled down to rank 9.
    make the difference in stats reduced instead of getting lowered.
    example. I have enchant that gives 1000 stats.
    its supposed to be scaled to enchant with 500 stats. instead of getting lowered to 500, make the difference between them ( 500 ) lowered by 40% for example to 300. meaning that my 1000 stats enchant gives 800. boom fixed. I accept paypal as payment for development.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    My problem with the scaling system is that it calls into question the entire mechanics of the game.

    We are told that stats work in pairs; eg ArP vs Defence and that the maximum efficiency you can obtain is 100% (50% for Deflect and Crit Strike).

    If that is true, no scaling is needed at all.

    Going up levels and getting better gear cannot make your stats more effective once you exceed the cap for a level.

    But if, for some insane reason scaling must stay (instead of making RIQ and up level 80 and making all non-levelling zones level 80) only 3 things should be scaled;
    Hit Points
    Power
    Weapon Damage

    Everything else is hard capped by the system.

    If it’s not then you are saying the system doesn’t work.

    Dungeons also need to stop dropping equipment from mod 6. That old equipment needs to simply be moved to the Adventurer’s Seals store and grouped into categories (eg mod 6 gear, Mod 7-10 gear or whatever).

    Actually trusting the game mechanics to work would actually keep the Hunt gear from Chult/Barovia relevant as well for players in a much better way. As that gear becomes more desirable once you are at cap for content.

    Your stated goals for scaling have not been achieved; RLQ is still a speed run for a level 80 character that is properly geared and you have made RIQ inaccessible in a meaningful way to the vast majority of players instead of making it more accessible and balanced between BIS and new players.

    Yet actually trusting your own mechanics would achieve your goal. It’s the scaling that breaks it.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • grimzsabergrimzsaber Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    I wonder if today's patch will fix the issue with maze engine dailies which have been unplayable because of the scaling (you get downscaled, but the mobs are many, many levels above you). This also makes the challenge campaign quests annoyingly hard.

    This has been noted as a "known issue", but the patch notes do not mention this being fixed.

    i completed the maze engine dailies without any issues, they were fairly easy
  • wisper2048wisper2048 Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    Could someone remind me why we need scaling anyway in new system?

    Most of stats have hard caps 50% or 100%, so there is not much need for scaling them. So people gone to old zone, and all these stats are capped. They feel easier, but they still not overpowered as the only affect chances and relative power up, not absolute. For important stats they hit cap on lv80 anyway, so new stats that will reach cap are not essential to the builds.

    There is also scaling of bonding (it is scaled down to r7), but as it seems to be not needed as handled by stat cap.

    The stats that might need scaling: HP, weapon damage, and power - these are essential damage and defense stats, all other are relative and capped. So we could just introduce hard cap for weapon damage, power, and HP in old zones (per class paragon or just global). This would be much simpler system than current, will achieve the same goal of making power similar, it is easier to code, and it will require much less work from CPU.

  • grimzsabergrimzsaber Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    so i just tried ToNG after they "fixed" it in the last patch, 2nd last boss is still triggering way too many traps and final boss is still a joke, sure the souls are now killable (barely) but the rest of the mobs just run over you like a truck, by the time we got the boss halfway the whole platform was just mobs, probably around 20 adds, its a mess.. at that point you cant go after the almost unkillable souls anymore, just run around like a chicken and pray
  • krevgkrevg Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    First, I apologize for repeating my post from Mr. Foss' thread here, but some things must be repeated until they are actually read by the development team. The recent apology for some of the issues created by Mod 16 is appreciated. However, if Cryptic is truly looking to better listen to players, the development team must address the scaling issues. Scaling has been commented on more than any single issue I can remember since NW's initial launch, yet the development team still does not seem to grasp the gravity and magnitude of this issue.

    As scaling exists now, progression and increased stats from upgrading enchantments is stopped at very low ranks in scaled zones. This breaks a fundamental mechanic of level and stat based adventure games, which is that as you level up upgrade your character's equipment, you become stronger. This is a critical flaw with the new scaling system that is not a "bug" but must be addressed.

    So, understanding the development team's desire to make older content more difficult, there are several ways to approach fixing this issue.

    1. Make all dungeons level 80 and remove capping, but keep IL scaling for power. This approach is likely the best. It does require adjusting creatures in the existing dungeons, but this has to be done a anyway to make them playable again. I also suggest only scaling power, as power is the measure directly related to damage. This way people don't go from having met the minimum stats to being reduced below the minimum stats in the older content, as is happening now. It also allows for character progression to continue.

    2. Keep the scaling as it is now (not recommended) but allow for some smaller increases in stats due to each enchantments rank a over the capped base rank value. While not as good of a method as 1, above, this at least allows for some minor sense of progression. A rank 6 bonding should never give the same stats as a rank 15 bonding in a dungeon. If it does, then it's actually better to use lower level enchants in the L70 content to avoid the additional IL scaling. Let's face it, that just makes no sense, ever!

    3. Some other option that you think of that allows for some sort of progression and doesn't penalize players with scaling for having higher level enchantments.

    The new level cap has made having any L70 content obsolete. People will typically spend only a week or two between L70 and L80. Therefore, the most obvious and best solution is 1 above, to make all current L70 content into L80 content.

    No matter what, some sense of progression must be restored for NW to remain a viable world. Please take your own words to heart and consider the hundreds of player posts commenting on scaling and do something to truly address the core issues.

    Talia (W)
    Taragon (DC)
    Tabbatha (OP)
    Tanya (F)
    Tasha (SW)
  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    i see why ESO's scaling are still successful, NWO's isnt and it hurting players in very bad ways.
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,111 Arc User
    Well if no-one buys any wards etc. to level up enchants and gear, they might change their minds. Already Marks of Potency are tanking on the AH.
  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    it takes 2-3 weeks depend on how easier with specific weekly heroic encounters to get 25 for "ultimate' mark, sound about right on value and cost. nothing as fast or slow.
    problem with elite encounters like Chult or Barovia BHE are often ghost town, very hard to get when many players got done after first hours of weeklies, then rest of week, rarely anyone shows up. i see many rather do demon heroic runs all week.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    It’s worse when you end up soloing bosses as a Paladin....
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • gonzakotwigonzakotwi Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    Guys check what i found today, these guys even scaled artifacts. This image is from cloak tower

    I don't care as a 21k char i can complete more or less every dungeon, but for a newer char this genius idea of scaling gives him a horrible gameplay experience
  • emese#4731 emese Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    I know a big patch is coming out but yet I am worried that will be again something that will apply to every dungeons evenly and not take in account how individual dungeons work. When mod 16 hit I was 10K IL now I am almost 20K IL. I can pay only RLQ and RIQ and I find then most workable with some ghastly exceptions. I did not finished yet most campaigns for any RAQ dungeon though strangely according the board I can sign up for them. Ironically if I get to 20K I can do LoMM … :). But that is not the issue I have -- The issue is Valindra's tower and Malaborg's Castle. The mechanics of these 2 are off... not just the scaling. I was put in VT like 6 times (each time more then 1 hr) -- the groups finished only 2x and not because of the lack of trying or not being at appropriate IL level. Valindra's summoned warriors span way to fast but even that can be survived -- what kills the group is the 2nd area attack. If the group is lucky someone with long range attack survives and hence the 2 finishes. If not (like my paladin survived it 2x) then just all has to start again.
    The other day we were placed in MC -- took 1 hour to finish. I needed 15 resurrections (compared to Demogorgon where most time I need none; I play as tank there and hold him with a manageable damage to me). The rest of the party was not better in terms of resurrection needs. Whenever I tried agro I was run over in seconds an killed on spot. The healer was exhausted and run out of divinity and at the end we all agree that it is not worth our time and energy. Again it was not because of low IL or lack of trying!
    In my opinion it is important that dungeons are looked at individually as some RIQ dungeons now are almost at expert level.
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