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Official M16: General Feedback

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  • rafaeldarafaelda Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 662 Arc User
    bpstuart said:

    and buying gear with real money doesn't really count as self improvement.

    There you hit something that is making me at least uneasy, making LV 70 dungeons and skirmishes hard for players and nerfing the seals trade for raw ad, from 100/1000 seals/ad to 300/1000 on next mod, (last time i looked at was 2 weeks ago) will nerf our ad income again, and even if i can get all toons gear from master expeditions, something i will only know when this stuf start working for real, it still left the enchantments role open, i have RP and gear but with lower AD i will need to farm a LOT to increase the enchantments...

    Also i dont know if new players will be able to get the new gear fom expeditions as easy as me (my toons are all close to 14k on live server) they still need to use toons or RP for artifacts and will have even lower income than me, this may hit new players on the pocket to hard to soon...
  • bpstuartbpstuart Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    I think we should post a list of our grievances (keep it civil) before the next Driftwood tavern stream and tag those that will be presenting, usually Julia and one other Dev. The we can be more sure that they have at least seen our complaints.
    Though i am not even sure the Forums are being read because stuff people have been talking about for weeks are treated like the presenters are completely unaware of it.

    Is this acceptable or is it too close to harassment in the eyes of the community? ( Again i am relatively new to the forums despite my long history with the game. )

    (This is not a call for harassment and if you take it to be an excuse to a snot then deepthroat a claymore.)
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    bpstuart said:

    I think we should post a list of our grievances (keep it civil) before the next Driftwood tavern stream and tag those that will be presenting, usually Julia and one other Dev. The we can be more sure that they have at least seen our complaints.
    Though i am not even sure the Forums are being read because stuff people have been talking about for weeks are treated like the presenters are completely unaware of it.

    Is this acceptable or is it too close to harassment in the eyes of the community? ( Again i am relatively new to the forums despite my long history with the game. )

    (This is not a call for harassment and if you take it to be an excuse to a snot then deepthroat a claymore.)

    The reality is rarely does anyone like having their work critique by others in a negative fashion. That is what is happening with mod 16. The dev put in the hours to make mod 16 changes. The players are unhappy about the changes and providing their feedback on those changes. That feedback, mostly negative, is what the devs see regularly.

    Unfortunately for the devs that part of the job maybe never told to them when they went to school. The reality is, feedback happens in business and it should happen on a regular basis. I can see that the devs really like what the delivered and I can see all of their hardwork in what they have done. I can understand their bitterness towards players like myself who have not been positive in the least bit about the changes. I can even understand that they don't want to get into conversation with those of us who are upset about the changes. I can respect their decision in that regard.

    However, the feedback we are providing should be reviewed with management and discussed as a team. The management team needs more info than simple responses from the forums, but also how players are viewing the changes on other social media. All of this info needs to be collected and reviewed. A decision from top management should be the deciding factor on if mod 16 does go live later this month or not.

    I've been paying attention to FB and other social media and the overall reaction to mod 16 is a bit more on the negative side than the positive side. It's not that far off from a 50/50. Given that complaints and issues are brought to light and given more attention than compliments I cab see the company view that overall players are happy with the changes.

    Will this mod hurt the game population. Yes. Will it be similar to what happened with the EE campaign from mod 6? That is hard to predict but given the up roar in the forums, social media and in game I would state that it maybe just bad as what happened with mod 6. It also could be worse or the game may pick up even more players. Hard to predict until it launches.

    With all of that said, I appreciate the hours and effort the devs have put into mod 16 even if I disagree with the majority of the changes to the overall game core mechanics that are being implemented. At this point for me I'm about 75% out the door when mod 16 lands. I was hoping to stick around but removing the engaging combat and complexity in a RPGMMO for me is a big NO NO and those two items will be the reasons why I will leave this game.

    Thank you devs for making mod 16, I appreciate your efforts to try to improve the game.
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 688 Arc User
    bpstuart said:

    I think we should post a list of our grievances (keep it civil) before the next Driftwood tavern stream and tag those that will be presenting, usually Julia and one other Dev. The we can be more sure that they have at least seen our complaints.
    Though i am not even sure the Forums are being read because stuff people have been talking about for weeks are treated like the presenters are completely unaware of it.

    Is this acceptable or is it too close to harassment in the eyes of the community? ( Again i am relatively new to the forums despite my long history with the game. )

    (This is not a call for harassment and if you take it to be an excuse to a snot then deepthroat a claymore.)

    Don't see how this would be harassment as long as the list would be monitored in some way. But I also don't feel that the already given feedback is harassing. (?)
    I'm just very unsure if it's worth doing if there already is a forum on feedback that isn't read. Or is read sporadically. Or read in parts and pieces. Or in topics. lol.
    It's a lot of work for a lot of work that was seemingly ignored already. (Or wasn't and just appears to be, who knows nowadays)
    - bye bye -
  • cherryman1cherryman1 Member Posts: 341 Arc User

    If I'm being honest, I'd prefer no at-wills at all. 3 seconds between encounter powers at which point I dance around is better than having to sit still and throw magic missiles.

    I'm not sure that barbarians who use at wills for damage should be converted to encounter users only. Think of that conversation when someone asks the barbarian why they have that sword or weapon and the barb says "It for show".
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  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    I did a little bit of work on some of the runic areas. My general feedback:

    1. The mobs themselves are scaled fairly well. The huge health regeneration of some mobs needs to be removed though - it simply wont work for low dps classes.

    2. I do NOT appreciate the instances that have the multiple tornados. Being bounced around like a pinball, having a large percent of your health lost as a result, while simultaneously being attacked by mobs is going to irritate a lot of players. Change it to just one tornado please, or lose them altogether.

    3. I got the first item on the quest list to drop. Nothing else would drop - it appears to be broken.

    +1. Couldn't have said this better myself.
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  • bpstuartbpstuart Member Posts: 232 Arc User

    bpstuart said:

    I think we should post a list of our grievances (keep it civil) before the next Driftwood tavern stream and tag those that will be presenting, usually Julia and one other Dev. The we can be more sure that they have at least seen our complaints.
    Though i am not even sure the Forums are being read because stuff people have been talking about for weeks are treated like the presenters are completely unaware of it.

    Is this acceptable or is it too close to harassment in the eyes of the community? ( Again i am relatively new to the forums despite my long history with the game. )

    (This is not a call for harassment and if you take it to be an excuse to a snot then deepthroat a claymore.)

    The reality is rarely does anyone like having their work critique by others in a negative fashion. That is what is happening with mod 16. The dev put in the hours to make mod 16 changes. The players are unhappy about the changes and providing their feedback on those changes. That feedback, mostly negative, is what the devs see regularly.

    Unfortunately for the devs that part of the job maybe never told to them when they went to school. The reality is, feedback happens in business and it should happen on a regular basis. I can see that the devs really like what the delivered and I can see all of their hardwork in what they have done. I can understand their bitterness towards players like myself who have not been positive in the least bit about the changes. I can even understand that they don't want to get into conversation with those of us who are upset about the changes. I can respect their decision in that regard.

    However, the feedback we are providing should be reviewed with management and discussed as a team. The management team needs more info than simple responses from the forums, but also how players are viewing the changes on other social media. All of this info needs to be collected and reviewed. A decision from top management should be the deciding factor on if mod 16 does go live later this month or not.

    I've been paying attention to FB and other social media and the overall reaction to mod 16 is a bit more on the negative side than the positive side. It's not that far off from a 50/50. Given that complaints and issues are brought to light and given more attention than compliments I cab see the company view that overall players are happy with the changes.

    Will this mod hurt the game population. Yes. Will it be similar to what happened with the EE campaign from mod 6? That is hard to predict but given the up roar in the forums, social media and in game I would state that it maybe just bad as what happened with mod 6. It also could be worse or the game may pick up even more players. Hard to predict until it launches.

    With all of that said, I appreciate the hours and effort the devs have put into mod 16 even if I disagree with the majority of the changes to the overall game core mechanics that are being implemented. At this point for me I'm about 75% out the door when mod 16 lands. I was hoping to stick around but removing the engaging combat and complexity in a RPGMMO for me is a big NO NO and those two items will be the reasons why I will leave this game.

    Thank you devs for making mod 16, I appreciate your efforts to try to improve the game.
    There is no Doubt the Devs are working hard. Maybe harder than they should if the other people i know in game dev are any indication.
    I don't want all that hard work to go to waste and the game to crash because they overlooked their playerbase's critiques. A few tweaks and features is enough to sway players who are on the fence about jumping ship. A quality of life improvement here, a rebalancing of the new difficulty there, and boom, fewer people leaving.

    But i guess y'all are right, they are gonna do what they are gonna do. I just want to do anything, no matter how futile to try and keep the game going.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    I won't bother personally. Anything they're unaware of at this point is because they want to be. It sucks to get negative feedback, really truly sucks and it's a skill to learn to accept it, but that's kind of par for the course when you design things for other people. Sometimes what you design isn't what they wanted and they don't like it. When that happens you change it. Unless you're working on a personal project for yourself, what you like is secondary. If we hurt their feelings by saying we don't like things or they don't want to make changes because they like the way they made it, well, I'm sorry but that's kind of too bad. As I have said since hearing about M16 for the first time, the ideas and intentions are good. The problems needed to be addressed. And rewriting a large amount of the game was probably pretty necessary to that end. But they took things too far. The changes and reductions are just too severe to be justified by the given reasons. Thinking that everybody would be on board with some of these implementations is just living in fantasy land. And scheduling the release when so many of the necessary base aspects of the "new" game are in very serious ways not working just shows either carelessness or apathy toward the reception by the player base.
  • lordaeoloslordaeolos Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User
    adinosii said:


    Now, as you can see, the current player numbers are almost the lowest they have ever been - almost at the rock bottom that was hit in July 2016 - some time after the release of SKT.

    Elemental Evil was without a doubt the worst mod released to date, sure it added a lot of new content, but because it didn't include a full rework underneath it exploded all of the mechanics problems that already existed, making annoyances huge issues to players... that and the grind to 70 from 60 was brutal, especially for players like me with multiple characters

    SKT wasn't very popular because it brought back "empowering" (like the black ice gear), was a huge grind, and the snow in BS gave people literal headaches, and SOMI while it looked cool brought in fishing and 30 minutes of boat travel everyday... I heard one guild-mate say "I'm not doing this, if I wanted to sit in a boat for 30 minutes, I'd go fishing for real"

    AI... wasn't enough a half mod worth of content, and for the most part people either hated the humor, or tolerated it, and the new skirmish it gave us was a waste of time from a rewards perspective.... granted the bright side to 15 was the professions overhaul, but that doesn't add new players, just makes old ones happier. that being said I did notice a number of new players come into the game at the start of AI... but we haven't had a new mod drop since then... With 5 months between mods, and 15 being so light, a lot of people got bored and are taking a break, many of the people I know that have done that do plan on coming back.

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  • darkheart#6758 darkheart Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    > @adinosii said:
    > Doesn't matter. Nothing we say or do will affect mod 16. With less than 2 weeks to go, the focus right now will be on fixing any remaining "showstopper" bugs in time for release. Pestering the devs about anything else will not have any positive effects.
    >
    > I would like to draw your attention to this graph of player numbers, however. It shows Steam players of Neverwinter, so the absolute numbers are irrelevant - however, the trends shown there should apply to the general population.
    >
    >
    > You can see a big drop at the very start - that's just after Mod 6 was released, and a lot of people gave up and left. You can also see a big increase in June 2018 - that's just after Ravenloft was released. I must point out that AI failed to create a similar spike.
    >
    > Now, as you can see, the current player numbers are almost the lowest they have ever been - almost at the rock bottom that was hit in July 2016 - some time after the release of SKT.
    >
    > It will be interesting what happens after the release of Undermountain. Will player numbers soar like they did after Ravenloft was released, or will they drop like they did after Mod6 and SKT?
    >
    > I am sure there have been a few "what did we do wrong" meetings over the years, when new modules have failed to capture the interest of players or resulted in a drop in Zen purchases - right now we just have to hope they manage to fix the major issues fairly quickly after release so we don't see a major collapse in player numbers and they can avoid another such meeting.

    As you already stated, Steam isn't a completely accurate report of numbers but could be used as an outlier in overall player base and usage.

    I would really like to see the true numbers that Cryptic sees and see what the changes look from Mod 15 to Mod 16 and comparative from Mod 5 to 6.

    I think we will see an increase in the first week or two as players return to see what things look like and do they enjoy the new feel of the game. The real question is when it hits week 3 and 4 will those same players stick around. Personal opinion I dont think so.
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    My biggest gripe is still that they're killing the Foundry tomorrow, which is definitely set in stone. The fact that there's seemingly no logical reason to do it before the 23rd doesn't help either.
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  • trelamytrelamy Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    Still can't trade the power points from Mod 15!

    Is there any chance we see Black Ice Weapons as transmutes?!

    Our beliefs don't make us better people. Our actions do.
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 518 Arc User
    The new module comes after a disappointing module that left the final players unmotivated because the content executable for us was the same (ToNG, CoDG and CR still broken). The new campaign brings new zones to grind and a single dungeon, but even the new weekly quest causes you to perform completed campaign quests, I believe with the goal of helping new players what is good, but for those who did 4x barovia, skt, chult ... like me, going back to these maps to perform quests is another disappointment (even with great reward). With staggered zone status, some of the old content will be difficult and time-consuming and less attractive for those reasons. I do not believe that the Hype of the launch stays, as I do not believe it has this hype, since for many it will be only the last chance given to the game.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    They Should NOT Change Neverwinter - Mod 16 Can Be A Failure!-The Assist Man [YouTube]

    I've been following this guy and he has played Mod 16, gotten feedback from community players playing Mod 16, and all the feedback is absolutely negative from what he has seen!

    Since we are still posting here when everything is broken and so slimmed down to a game that doesn't work, Mod 16 is going to be a mistake to release! The only thing good out of Mod 16 is the companion changes and that's it!

    It's not the developers game, it's our game, because we are the ones playing this game! People are going to abandon this game! Well, I guess I'll just roleplay until the game is better. I hope I will manage in this game once Mod 16 releases; I doubt it.

    NEVER EVER START A GAME FROM SCRATCH! Let that be a lesson for Cryptic.

    Should of balanced the game more by what we had, not from scratch!



    Post edited by mwk on
  • davidmokidavidmoki Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    Elemental Evil and SKT are two things that I will never understand why it was released, who thought doing drowned shore quests over and over again was a good idea? who thought Sea of moving ice was a good idea? It's not only ugly and make my head hurt but its also annoying and the campaign requirements are unrealistic.

    The ONE thing I like about m16 is how booms are useless, so now players don't have to go that nightmare.

    Some of my IRL friends quit in m6 because it was bad, the ones that tolerated it, quit in SKT (I also quit for a while after SoMI) and now I'm literally the only one left in this game, None of them want to get back to NW, because of the issues within these updates.

    The people that will give m16 a chance will play for a week or two and live, because lets face it, it is a bad mod, some of the current players will also quit because of mod 16, just go read some of the class threats, it's dumb how some classes are and most of changes were for the worse, add that to everything that was meta in m15 is nearly useless in m16 and we will have to change everything from mounts to pet gears, and the extremely boring and longer combat, m16 will make that graphic drop, just like it did with elemental evil and SKT, the only question here is how (and if) the developers will be able to damage control it.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    davidmoki said:


    add that to everything that was meta in m15 is nearly useless in m16 and we will have to change everything from mounts to pet gears, and the extremely boring and longer combat

    Failure to do the former leads to the latter, and other problems.

    That failure to change and learn what is needed leads to the vast majority of problems players have experienced.

    The facade looks the same, but the game is fundamentally different to the Mod 15 game, and you need to take the time to adjust, not just plough in like its a continuation of Mod15.

    That’s not to say that there are not major problems (scaling, last 2 quests are broken), but a lot of the problems players experience are tied to not taking a breath between mods at all to examine what they need to make things work now.
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  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    After the last update.. my active companion dropped from about 30,000 damage per attack, to 600 damage per attack. The expeditions are easy to solo, but the weekly bonus missions are proving inconsistent. Chult was done in 5 minutes, but on the way back to portal I ran into an elite T-Rex. He took 5 minutes to take down. The River District shrines are very challenging to solo. SKT, oddly, seemed easy. Soloing large groups that contain an interupter or immobilizer is a pain in the hamster.




  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    bugs are red. I was summarizing flow and experience of solo game play. My suggestion last mod was to reduce companion damage by up to half, not down to 2%, but that is not very relevant to the post.
  • lordtweety#3604 lordtweety Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    The only class my friends play as mains that doesn't have people quitting is Wizard and Ranger. That should sum up the current state of the game.

    If you main a wizard or ranger you're going to be okay. The rest of us.... start praying to Kelemvor.
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  • nova#2306 nova Member Posts: 140 Arc User

    The only class my friends play as mains that doesn't have people quitting is Wizard and Ranger. That should sum up the current state of the game.

    If you main a wizard or ranger you're going to be okay. The rest of us.... start praying to Kelemvor.

    think you mean pray to tymora cause you're going to need that luck
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  • jehzir#4444 jehzir Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    My biggest issue is with the AREA SCALING for the mod 1-15 areas after you completely build out a 24k Item level toon in any class, you should be able to go back to those areas and be at the top end of the area, they are not. At-Wills on all classes are doing maybe triple digit damages, if they are lucky.

    REMOVE AREA SCALING UNTIL IT IS PROPERLY BALANCED so all classes are to do the content as done (paid for) before. That is the crux of the crisis, many players have paid hard earned money to play and support the game, to be taken advantage of in this fashion, with the AREA SCALING, can lead to legal issues that you may not want to encounter.

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