Neverwinter will survive mod 16. Some will leave but over time some will return and others join. Yes, there are problems still in the game. Solo play will require learning new ways to get to a similar result. PUGs will be Hell on Earth and I will avoid them like the plaque. Adjustments will be on going. Please God, that boon (lingering medication or whatever) will finally end. Been sitting at 1 sec left for a week now, its nice to get free heals but this is redonkeylass. Life will not end until after Labor Day, tho not sure what year.
> @dread4moor said: Who said “suck it up you will get used to it”?
And the corollary with Mod 6 holds, over all power and effectiveness at the time of the mod’s release will be lower, but over time it will return to a heightened state again. Hopefully it takes longer for things to become irrelevant this time.
And yes I expect to loose players, such a large change will always cause a loss of players, but that wasn’t relevant to the question I was asked.
Frankly if you go to a number of the specific feedback threads you will see I’m actually giving feedback in the hopes of seeing changes that will make the game better and more appealing on release.
There is three weeks left, there is a lot of testing and refining that can be done in that time, though large system changes are clearly done at this point.
"Over time" is not something we have right now, people that quit in mod 6 didn't come back, people that will quit now will not come back, I have no idea on why the though mod 16 is a good idea, it will not kill the game right away, but will 100% leave the game in a bad state, jut look at the class changes, Tanks and healers got ALL the attention and are extremely fun to play with, but DPS classes were just nerfed and that is it, I really don't feel like telling you the most players in this game is a dps because it obvious, how they will feel when their main is weaker and more boring than support classes? As a barb main I'm extremely disappointed at how Sentinel got all the attention while blade master is left on "nerf this, Nerft that". The developers will need a HUGE damage control patches really soon, no dps class is happy about mod 16 (one or other lost person is happy but they are clearly a minority), Mod 16 can be the start of the death of this game. And I say this out of nothing but love and worrying for the game.
Something I was thinking about last night revolved around players' time. A lot of the changes (especially the ones to enchantments and runestones, and, to a degree, scaling) will make a lot of players feel like they have wasted their time. Think about just how many hours players have put into building up their gear, grinding for RP and AD, one little bit at a time making their characters more powerful. Many of the people in my alliance have precious little time per night to play and they're always keen to make the most of it.
Now imagine feeling like all of that effort -- no, all of that time -- was just made meaningless.
Time is the one truly unrecoverable commodity that we all have. Once spent, you can never get it back -- it's gone forever.
I don't think the devs fully grasp how much that will hurt when this mod hits. It's going to leave a sour taste for a great many players, and it's the sort of wound that takes an enormous amount of time to heal, if ever.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
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I think that its a bit too late for such a feedback, but providing it later would be even more irrelevant.
Frankly I even wonder where to start. OK – I was a great supporter of MOD 16. I am veteran player with over 200 days of play time under my mains belt. I know it may sounds bad like I boast myself – but really I was there I done that you know... and with that, I knew that game is heading a wrong way with all that power creep/share and overall god mode of end game players. Something had to be done to prevent this game, having almost unlimited potential, from falling. Since MOD 13/14 it was pretty much uncontrollable fall. Many, at some point even myself, lost hope that devs are able to actually do something about it – yet we were wrong. The very first news that game is going to be totaly reworked was a great news for me, and for many others already bored with a game, heck even a new players in my guild find it a way to mayby that brings them a easier path to end game etc. Hard reset is always a fresh start after all. I knew that such change will not go without a price – and I was more then ready to pay that price for a greater good and game longevity. I must add here that I made a lot of effort to keep my guild informed and prepared, we even created a internal alliance manual about MOD 16 changes and so on. I was so optimistic......but...
First glimpse on test server was a mix of great and bad news – but that was expected. Next weeks of feedback – and I must add- for the first time our feedback was taken into consideration, made me optimistic even more. Sure there was issues – Abilities mess, boons debasement,multiple issues on every classes, but in general all that chenage was heading a good way – untill march 29th build.
Suddenly a lot of things changed: you literally took half of our statistics with a change of ratio to 1000:1% you made campaign boons reworked all right but with decresed values even more negligible that moves made our enchantments, campaign boons, legendary mounts, insygnias - and realmoney/effort to get those irrelevant you decided to change so expected enchantment exchange from free to BtA you changed damage resistant to 50% so there is no longer a reason to play tanks any more and of top of that you nerfed all classes magnitudes across a board to make our progress even slower.
Add to that already existing issues like scaling or actuall classes smilarity or no real choice in classes builds etc and I really cant find a reason to be optimistic any more. Sure thare are some great changes but those do not overweight those bad ones any more....
And best part is I type that from BIS player perspective.
Most of players in my guild and out there are far from it.
How can you expect a new player to level up through a Vanrakdoom having 9k IL? Cos you do not belive he gona stop at level 70 dont you? Or even try to do some campaigns witch are currently broken and in fact even harder?
How can you expect veteren player to stay entartained while there would be literaly 1 dungeon ment for level 80 BIS players while rest gona be scaling broken unrewarding level 70?
How can you expect players to pursue ranking up enchantments or getting legendary mounts when those in terms of ratings are so not worth any afferot and – again thanks to scalling – its not important if its rank 15 or 10 as it works same on certain maps?
And last but fundamental question: How taking all that together you expect to earn more money on that game? I mean really I dont mind company is having profit – but how are you going to achieve that with such approach? You really belive a new player will spend real money to buy worthless rank 15 enchant or legendary mounts? Or any player will spent a month of rAD refine to get enaugh to rank his enchantment or two up? Really? You really think players are that stupid nor can count?
Players are ready to pay real money while they are entertained and see a reson with it. We are NOT entartained. And due to solutions you took – new players with witch a MOD 16 is firmly in mind, are not gona be entertained either.
And to make things clear here – as I mentioned – I do understand reason of changes, I do support the goals of changes, I support idea that this game needs to be more demanding, but what I simply cannot understand is why you always choose a worst possible way that leads to designated target....and best part is you were on right track....but you lost it..... so I lost my optimism with it.
Ahm @gripnir78 tanks got more relevant with the DR change not less. A tank can still put up their shield and soak 100% of a hit (as long as it doesn’t exceed their shield’s value).
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Ahm @gripnir78 tanks got more relevant with the DR change not less. A tank can still put up their shield and soak 100% of a hit (as long as it doesn’t exceed their shield’s value).
nah they just make those encounters adding to DR almost relevant but thats not the same. Tanks are not sturdy any more - just less squishy In fact none of those increasing DR skills gona be used as its a waste of slot - made few solo tests and its a fact. If DR nerf would not take tanks into consideration then yeah. But for now weak shield is only thing witch makes tanks different, that, higher aggro and lot lower dps not even close to 70% damage of dps classes output as @asterdahl wanned to achive.(just take a look on fabricants tests)
Basic DR cap due to increased combined rating is easier to achieve for any class now. And recent shield change is...not a real change... but lets stop thet off topic here
0
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
Ahm @gripnir78 tanks got more relevant with the DR change not less. A tank can still put up their shield and soak 100% of a hit (as long as it doesn’t exceed their shield’s value).
The role (or rather dependence of other classes) of tanks has indeed been made more critical, but the ability to tank has been greatly lessened. Check the preview Fighter section. I and several other testers have quantified how bad the new shield system works. A 300K HP Vanguard has an ~98kHP shield. That shield is not protected by DR, Deflect or any other internal mitigation. Against mini-bosses (eg. LoL Scorpions) and final bosses, that shield is shredded almost immediately. The tab Mark, an important aggro management tool, was replaced with the Fighter tab function ("Dig-In"). Dig In is redundant, almost identical to shift-shield. Worse, Dig In offers slightly more personal protection at the expense of total immobility and loss of aggro.
These are worse tanking abilities, not better.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
The role (or rather dependence of other classes) of tanks has indeed been made more critical, but the ability to tank has been greatly lessened. Check the preview Fighter section. I and several other testers have quantified how bad the new shield system works. A 300K HP Vanguard has an ~98kHP shield. That shield is not protected by DR, Deflect or any other internal mitigation. Against mini-bosses (eg. LoL Scorpions) and final bosses, that shield is shredded almost immediately. The tab Mark, an important aggro management tool, was replaced with the Fighter tab function ("Dig-In"). Dig In is redundant, almost identical to shift-shield. Worse, Dig In offers slightly more personal protection at the expense of total immobility and loss of aggro.
These are worse tanking abilities, not better.
I have no horse in the Fighter race, sure I have one and I have messed around with it on Preview, but in terms of its ultimate outcome... I'm listening to those who are experienced with the class. (And given the discussion of Shield/Tab for Paladins I hear you on Dig In.)
As to the LoL thing, might that not be a problem with the scaling system being buggy as all get out?
[Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 92573 (472493) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast. [Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 7972 (24300) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast. [Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 112290 (428222) Fire Damage to you with Rain of Fire. [Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 7972 (24300) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast. [Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 310357 (472998) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast.
Isn't exactly the sort of things you want to see when 533kHP in 80 zones turns into 366k in LoL, I cannot imagine that is WAI, because even with a party that isn't getting survived.
So, no, I don't consider things to be worse for tanks when you go to places and do things where the game is working (which is pretty much anywhere there is no scaling in effect).
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I have been creating low level characters in an effort to better understand how they are meant to be played now. I only use the armour and weapons that I am awarded, as new players don't have access to AD and gold, silver and copper early in the game. I find I am struggling to kill the enemy creatures on every different class I've tried so far. I'm pretty sure it's not because I'm playing the class wrong, then I realised it's the weapons. I am trying to kill Karzov in the black dagger headquarters and my weapon is practically useless because it is too low a level and I die over and over. My thoughts are make the reward weapons a little better so that new players will enjoy the game more as they are levelling up. Also my character just got to level 12, my question is: do we now have to finish 5 different areas before we can use the auction house? I was so relieved that they removed the restriction before, now it seems they have put it back on.
4
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
I have been creating low level characters in an effort to better understand how they are meant to be played now. I only use the armour and weapons that I am awarded, as new players don't have access to AD and gold, silver and copper early in the game. I find I am struggling to kill the enemy creatures on every different class I've tried so far. I'm pretty sure it's not because I'm playing the class wrong, then I realised it's the weapons. I am trying to kill Karzov in the black dagger headquarters and my weapon is practically useless because it is too low a level and I die over and over.
Kazarow is the first really hard fight, and this has been pointed out since back in February - I thought it had been fixed, but if not, it has to be. If new players basically run into a brick wall after playing for less than an hour, they will simply go away and not return.
Dear Change Designers in NW - MOD 16. I play on xbox and watch a big decline in population to a greater extent. Many players have sold their complete equipment because they understand that you are going to devalue it and have too much of a barrier to the future - which they can't handle.
The result is that they have a lot of Astral Diamonds left.
Meanwhile, I'm among those players waiting to see if a miracle happens. However, I have questions:
Now that there are so many black market offerings that are not only out of the game but also in the NV Chat, they are offering half-price Astral Diamonds for Real Money - Can you tell me what you intend to do? It is the result of the upcoming changes you are making and I would like to know your answer.
You will soon have a huge amount of AD among players in the game. On the other hand, you can't drain it quickly without compromising new players. So what happens?
Ahm @gripnir78 tanks got more relevant with the DR change not less. A tank can still put up their shield and soak 100% of a hit (as long as it doesn’t exceed their shield’s value).
The role (or rather dependence of other classes) of tanks has indeed been made more critical, but the ability to tank has been greatly lessened. Check the preview Fighter section. I and several other testers have quantified how bad the new shield system works. A 300K HP Vanguard has an ~98kHP shield. That shield is not protected by DR, Deflect or any other internal mitigation. Against mini-bosses (eg. LoL Scorpions) and final bosses, that shield is shredded almost immediately. The tab Mark, an important aggro management tool, was replaced with the Fighter tab function ("Dig-In"). Dig In is redundant, almost identical to shift-shield. Worse, Dig In offers slightly more personal protection at the expense of total immobility and loss of aggro.
These are worse tanking abilities, not better.
That's not working as intended.
Shield should be 50% of max HP, and take all passive defences into account.
Binding enchants to account will not help the economy, it will only make it worse. You need to add more AD sinks in the game outside the zen market. The last time I saw a good/stable economy in Neverwinter was years ago when most items you got in dungeouns where unbound. The auction house is in terrible shape and taking more items away from the market is only gonna make it worse. I question wether you even want to fix the AD/zen problems? I get the feeling your trying to push peeps to buy zen rather than trade zen.
Binding enchants to account will not help the economy, it will only make it worse. You need to add more AD sinks in the game outside the zen market. The last time I saw a good/stable economy in Neverwinter was years ago when most items you got in dungeouns where unbound. The auction house is in terrible shape and taking more items away from the market is only gonna make it worse. I question wether you even want to fix the AD/zen problems? I get the feeling your trying to push peeps to buy zen rather than trade zen.
To make sales work, people must feel that they are investing in something long-term and something that will bring benefits for more than one MOD.
However, almost all the enchantment are devalued and do not provide almost any profit from the upgrade. Insignia and companions are a good but overpriced investment, but whoever believes it is at the same time setting up the system when the exchange of equipment will change unpredictably statistics is not just cashgrab.
After all, things like Coalescent Ward are already selling at half the price for VIPs, but the use of upgrading degraded enchants is almost wasteful and nothing else is.
In addition, the game tries to move the trading items to the tokens of companions and insignias whose resources are at the ZEN market. That wouldn't matter so much, but I see the problem in the deliberate liquidation of enchantment, which was the only usable trader's prodding that cost a lot of time and money.
Of course blasting is a matter of disposing of all weapon enchancements but Vorpal must remain otherwise would be critical stats for laughter. Players sometimes have 2 or more armor and weapon enchancements, which they have given in the order of millions and have been waiting for more than a year. E.g. No one will resurrect the Weapon enchancements because it would break the meaning of critic injury and the vorpal is the only thing that holds it.
I do not understand where to take so much courage and guesslessly tell players that they will never sell what they exchange for new.
nah they just make those encounters adding to DR almost relevant but thats not the same. Tanks are not sturdy any more - just less squishy In fact none of those increasing DR skills gona be used as its a waste of slot - made few solo tests and its a fact. If DR nerf would not take tanks into consideration then yeah. But for now weak shield is only thing witch makes tanks different, that, higher aggro and lot lower dps not even close to 70% damage of dps classes output as @asterdahl wanned to achive.(just take a look on fabricants tests)
Basic DR cap due to increased combined rating is easier to achieve for any class now. And recent shield change is...not a real change... but lets stop thet off topic here
Only “increase DR” skill I have been running is Shield of Faith, and that mostly for the feat that makes casting it refill my Stamina.
I’ve been doing plenty of solo experiments as well, my experience is clearly different to yours. The #1 problem is that all scaled content is buggy with at least something in any given HE or dungeon doing massively inflated damage compared to everything else. Go to Lair of the Mad Mage and things work better.
Much as I appreciate Sharpedge’s efforts there is no way to get maximum dps out of a Paladin tank with a static dummy, his data from group play shows as much. I would have to spend the time digging into Ftr and Bbn mechanics to know if the same is true for them (my Bbn play is more about “do I enjoy it” than “is this right mechanically” because I don’t have the experience with the class to judge, Ftr is about “does this feel different to Pal?” only).
I’ve run into the player who thinks they can tank with Dreadnaught, then complains that it doesn’t work and that only Paladins can tank now. So you’ll forgive me for being skeptical of some community feedback of the sky is falling type as well. (Not that I think you or Took are doing that, but those players are out there.)
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I leveled my hr to 80 when it was still 500/1. the damage and pacing felt fine then (knowing that we weren't getting melee values correctly) I just started my cw. it doesn't feel good at 1000/1. it feel worse than the hr did even with half its damage gone. I've been trying to get my arpen up to 57000 and it's not easy. the starter gear doesn't have it. the damage I'm doing is sooo small and the going is so slow. and the encounters fire off so slowly it just isn't fun. I intended on doing a couple levels today but it was so boring that I got up from my computer.. it needs better damage. it needs not not require such high arpen right out the gate too. (even with more arpen though I don't think it will solve the pacing or the damage dealt by THAT much. I think I'd managed to get it up to 52000 with some effort)
Time is becoming short and stress is high all-around. This is a prioritized list of things i see as essential, before release:
1) Fix critical bugs.
2) Complete unfinished content.
3) Generate an update with an update log posted.(so players can playtest)
4) Add a boost to Deflection. such as: Damage is reduced by 50%. A targeting attacker becomes marked for 2 seconds.
Ideally, the duration of this mark would be modified by control and control resistance (duration halved vs bosses). This kills several birds with one stone. First, deflection becomes equivalent to defense. Accuracy becomes accordingly more important. Most importantly, this gives PvE monsters a way to get combat advantage on players... which raises the value of Awareness. It ensures that even solo players without a way to otherwise produce combat advantage, will benefit from the combat advantage stat. Some additional PvP depth is gained as well. This stat change is not overpowered because it cannot raise damage potential above the current maximum. If a player with 50% deflection is attacked by a mob targeting them once per second... approximately 75% of the mob will be marked at any given time. This is in a full-out blitz situation with MAX deflection.
6) Implement some Paragon skill and feat modifications for ALL classes, according to perceived needs and analysis.
7) Balance companion damage output if needed. 50% to 80% of current amount seems about right to me. Companions should not do more damage than the player. We dont want every player running a companion power-stack build because it gives top DPS.
8) Documentation, advertising, and public relations.
9) Minor bugs and cosmetic improvements.
I belive these additional improvements are 'low-hanging fruit' worth the time+cost to incorporate in order to escalate player satisfaction and improve reception:
o Bind 25 exchange tokens to every account that was created at least 30 days before the M16 launch. An exchange token is consumed for each Enchantment and Runestone swap at the Antiquities Dealer. The newly received items become "temporarily" bound to account for 30 days.
o Make campaign Signets of Patronage available at the Crown exchange vendor for about 1000 crowns each. This will ease the pain of grinding every repeatable quest in the campaigns. If the campaigns are fun enough that most players play them rather than sit them out... then it is adding desirable game content.
oCritical Severity - I suggest setting general enemy critical severity at 110%, and boss critical severity at 80%. Giving mobs a high critical severity adds more risk, so players dont go to sleep fighting the mobs. Keeping Boss critical severity lower will reduce the number of one-hit kill instances, which is no fun for anyone.
oPublish a list of specifically which skills and item effects can raise values of stats "Beyond their CAP" and to what limit.
Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
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lordseth1985Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 319Arc User
5) Decrease companion damage output. 40% to 80% of current amount seems about right. Companions should not do more damage than the player. We dont want every player running a companion power-stack build, because that gives top DPS.
Why not increase overall dmg of classes instead of even more nerfs?
Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
Yes, that would solve the problem as well. I moved #5 down to priority #7, because the final player-companion balance wont be known for sure until that point.
One of the main things that needs to be impressed upon for it's importance is that when Mod16 goes live, every Character will NEED to be given a Race Change Token.
With the changes to what each Ability Score does, despite now being set (and still needing some default allocation or individual Score function work for a few classes but plenty of people have expressed this already) people will need to be able to allocate their Racial Bonuses to fit the new system and yes, be able to change Races if they wish to.
Yeah totally disagree with your number 7. Companions are finally meaningful and not just bonding procers. Their damage is fine where it is at currently. I think the balance the devs achieved between augments and combat companions along with making any companion a potentially relevant summon is the most positive change this next mod.
Dear Change Designers in NW - MOD 16. I play on xbox and watch a big decline in population to a greater extent. Many players have sold their complete equipment because they understand that you are going to devalue it and have too much of a barrier to the future - which they can't handle.
The result is that they have a lot of Astral Diamonds left.
Meanwhile, I'm among those players waiting to see if a miracle happens. However, I have questions:
Now that there are so many black market offerings that are not only out of the game but also in the NV Chat, they are offering half-price Astral Diamonds for Real Money - Can you tell me what you intend to do? It is the result of the upcoming changes you are making and I would like to know your answer.
You will soon have a huge amount of AD among players in the game. On the other hand, you can't drain it quickly without compromising new players. So what happens?
Time is becoming short and stress is high all-around. This is a prioritized list of things i see as essential, before release:
1) Fix critical bugs.
2) Complete unfinished content.
3) Generate an update with an update log posted.(so players can playtest)
4) Add a boost to Deflection. such as: Damage is reduced by 50%. A targeting attacker becomes marked for 2 seconds.
Ideally, the duration of this mark would be modified by control and control resistance (duration halved vs bosses). This kills several birds with one stone. First, deflection becomes equivalent to defense. Accuracy becomes accordingly more important. Most importantly, this gives PvE monsters a way to get combat advantage on players... which raises the value of Awareness. It ensures that even solo players without a way to otherwise produce combat advantage, will benefit from the combat advantage stat. Some additional PvP depth is gained as well. This stat change is not overpowered because it cannot raise damage potential above the current maximum. If a player with 50% deflection is attacked by a mob targeting them once per second... approximately 75% of the mob will be marked at any given time. This is in a full-out blitz situation with MAX deflection.
6) Implement some Paragon skill and feat modifications for ALL classes, according to perceived needs and analysis.
7) Balance companion damage output if needed. 50% to 80% of current amount seems about right to me. Companions should not do more damage than the player. We dont want every player running a companion power-stack build because it gives top DPS.
8) Documentation, advertising, and public relations.
9) Minor bugs and cosmetic improvements.
I belive these additional improvements are 'low-hanging fruit' worth the time+cost to incorporate in order to escalate player satisfaction and improve reception:
o Bind 25 exchange tokens to every account that was created at least 30 days before the M16 launch. An exchange token is consumed for each Enchantment and Runestone swap at the Antiquities Dealer. The newly received items become "temporarily" bound to account for 30 days.
o Make campaign Signets of Patronage available at the Crown exchange vendor for about 1000 crowns each. This will ease the pain of grinding every repeatable quest in the campaigns. If the campaigns are fun enough that most players play them rather than sit them out... then it is adding desirable game content.
oCritical Severity - I suggest setting general enemy critical severity at 110%, and boss critical severity at 80%. Giving mobs a high critical severity adds more risk, so players dont go to sleep fighting the mobs. Keeping Boss critical severity lower will reduce the number of one-hit kill instances, which is no fun for anyone.
oPublish a list of specifically which skills and item effects can raise values of stats "Beyond their CAP" and to what limit.
this is kind of hilarious. do you not think they have their own internal list of things to do mr bossman? LMAO. somehow I doubt your priorities and theirs align. If I were a dev I'd probably be a little peeved by this
nah they just make those encounters adding to DR almost relevant but thats not the same. Tanks are not sturdy any more - just less squishy In fact none of those increasing DR skills gona be used as its a waste of slot - made few solo tests and its a fact. If DR nerf would not take tanks into consideration then yeah. But for now weak shield is only thing witch makes tanks different, that, higher aggro and lot lower dps not even close to 70% damage of dps classes output as @asterdahl wanned to achive.(just take a look on fabricants tests)
Basic DR cap due to increased combined rating is easier to achieve for any class now. And recent shield change is...not a real change... but lets stop thet off topic here
Only “increase DR” skill I have been running is Shield of Faith, and that mostly for the feat that makes casting it refill my Stamina.
I’ve been doing plenty of solo experiments as well, my experience is clearly different to yours. The #1 problem is that all scaled content is buggy with at least something in any given HE or dungeon doing massively inflated damage compared to everything else. Go to Lair of the Mad Mage and things work better.
Much as I appreciate Sharpedge’s efforts there is no way to get maximum dps out of a Paladin tank with a static dummy, his data from group play shows as much. I would have to spend the time digging into Ftr and Bbn mechanics to know if the same is true for them (my Bbn play is more about “do I enjoy it” than “is this right mechanically” because I don’t have the experience with the class to judge, Ftr is about “does this feel different to Pal?” only).
I’ve run into the player who thinks they can tank with Dreadnaught, then complains that it doesn’t work and that only Paladins can tank now. So you’ll forgive me for being skeptical of some community feedback of the sky is falling type as well. (Not that I think you or Took are doing that, but those players are out there.)
I am not saying sky is falling or something. All I say is...well how to descirbe it - imagine that our toons are big sacks of HP - a favourite meal of every mobs or bosses out there. Tanks are just a bigger sacks but not at all harder to bite and our HPs are more tasty (agro).
Sure we can discuss here (better not - off topic) how different tank classes utilise a skills etc, but it wont change a fact. And I think I dont need to point out how short sighted this approach is (HP increase vs enemies dmg increase mod to mod). And I do tests on SoT (broken I know but it is still broken in the same way so in fact it is indicator) and LotMM.
0
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
One of the main things that needs to be impressed upon for it's importance is that when Mod16 goes live, every Character will NEED to be given a Race Change Token.
With the changes to what each Ability Score does, despite now being set (and still needing some default allocation or individual Score function work for a few classes but plenty of people have expressed this already) people will need to be able to allocate their Racial Bonuses to fit the new system and yes, be able to change Races if they wish to.
No. The problem is not having the "wrong race". For many players looks are more important than racial stats and bonuses - otherwise we would all just be playing Dragonborn anyhow.
The actual problems are that
Ability to "roll" initial stats is being taken away (even if it is just a matter of selecting from a set of predetermined distributions, at least it gave the illusion of having some control.
The fixed initial distribution of stats is really inappropriate for some classes, considering which bonuses the stats actually give.
The stat distribution is problematic for classes with two roles. If you really want to focus on one role, you cannot pick stats that are optimal for that, at the cost of sacrificing effectiveness for the other role. In stead you get stuck with a boring "middle-of the road" distribution.
The three points above are irrelevant because the stat bonuses are so insignificant that they don't really matter at all.
The fact is that the only thing that really matters is "are you Dragonborn or not" ?
That's right. Never choose a Dragonborn, due to the hideous appearance. It would be nice to finally separate the "look" from the statistics, as it happened with the mounts and companions ...
In order to get rid of people telling you how to play, the devs tell you how to play by forcing you to play one thing. In order to reduce wrong choices on character start they reduce choices period but none of them are the right choice. In order to more concisely explain damage they change to a system that is not explained and adds further math to even figure out what you are doing and if it is working. Do you see why we have such a hard time figuring out what the infested hamstering meat crack is really going on or where you are taking the game?
And mod16 straight up destroys much of the interest that was to be found in the old system. On live sure things are complicated and a bit of a mess but the ability to learn and experiment and i liked that. Mod16, you have no meaningful options. To quote Shammy (a youtuber): " I Guess i have been told to be myself one too many times so naturally i am going to put a lot of stock into being able to express myself." On live you choose a class to play WITH, while in mod16 you pick a class to play AS.
I could understand if you are doing this because you are struggling so you need to use resources more efficiently, but i keep being told you aren't being de-prioritized so you aren't killing my fun because you need to, you just want to.
i am not adverse to class re-balancing but this is a little too much. We are so restricted into one thing that isn't crafted to be played on its own. We no longer get play with our 'favorite class lore/flavor wise' the most the solos get is maybe the Cleric.
When am i going to stop talking about this? When you get the Halflings to throw the ring into a volcano, you put a hit out on me or i get discouraged enough to De-invest my interest that i have been cultivating for 5years.
Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
Can anyone confirm if after the stats change the game got better in a starter gear, or for leveling characthers ? tried mines again from 70 to 80 and i don't feel it 's better, to be honest the 3 i tried i had a worst experience, i had to rely on my pets most of the time and i don't believe that was intent...
maybe a the old version with a buff for all at-will's would had being better
5) Decrease companion damage output. 40% to 80% of current amount seems about right. Companions should not do more damage than the player. We dont want every player running a companion power-stack build, because that gives top DPS.
Why not increase overall dmg of classes instead of even more nerfs?
I belive pets dmg was a good, not too big and not useless before the last stats/critter HP changes last friday roling back those changes and increasing atwill dmg would fix that
Obs.: (cant say for toons leveling from 01-70 only tested 70-80 with the neverember gift gear...)
In order to get rid of people telling you how to play, the devs tell you how to play by forcing you to play one thing. In order to reduce wrong choices on character start they reduce choices period but none of them are the right choice. In order to more concisely explain damage they change to a system that is not explained and adds further math to even figure out what you are doing and if it is working. Do you see why we have such a hard time figuring out what the infested hamstering meat crack is really going on or where you are taking the game?
And mod16 straight up destroys much of the interest that was to be found in the old system. On live sure things are complicated and a bit of a mess but the ability to learn and experiment and i liked that. Mod16, you have no meaningful options. To quote Shammy (a youtuber): " I Guess i have been told to be myself one too many times so naturally i am going to put a lot of stock into being able to express myself." On live you choose a class to play WITH, while in mod16 you pick a class to play AS.
I could understand if you are doing this because you are struggling so you need to use resources more efficiently, but i keep being told you aren't being de-prioritized so you aren't killing my fun because you need to, you just want to.
i am not adverse to class re-balancing but this is a little too much. We are so restricted into one thing that isn't crafted to be played on its own. We no longer get play with our 'favorite class lore/flavor wise' the most the solos get is maybe the Cleric.
When am i going to stop talking about this? When you get the Halflings to throw the ring into a volcano, you put a hit out on me or i get discouraged enough to De-invest my interest that i have been cultivating for 5years.
You're being disingenuous. The goal is to make all choices viable. That requires, at the very least, pruning out the nonviable choices (although they're still struggling with that with some feats on some classes, evidence of their commitment to the goal is all over the place).
Would I love to see each feat do more, and restrict you less? Sure. Would I love to see a third choice on each row? Absolutely. But don't malign their intentions when it's clear the problem is execution.
In order to get rid of people telling you how to play, the devs tell you how to play by forcing you to play one thing. In order to reduce wrong choices on character start they reduce choices period but none of them are the right choice. In order to more concisely explain damage they change to a system that is not explained and adds further math to even figure out what you are doing and if it is working. Do you see why we have such a hard time figuring out what the infested hamstering meat crack is really going on or where you are taking the game?
And mod16 straight up destroys much of the interest that was to be found in the old system. On live sure things are complicated and a bit of a mess but the ability to learn and experiment and i liked that. Mod16, you have no meaningful options. To quote Shammy (a youtuber): " I Guess i have been told to be myself one too many times so naturally i am going to put a lot of stock into being able to express myself." On live you choose a class to play WITH, while in mod16 you pick a class to play AS.
I could understand if you are doing this because you are struggling so you need to use resources more efficiently, but i keep being told you aren't being de-prioritized so you aren't killing my fun because you need to, you just want to.
i am not adverse to class re-balancing but this is a little too much. We are so restricted into one thing that isn't crafted to be played on its own. We no longer get play with our 'favorite class lore/flavor wise' the most the solos get is maybe the Cleric.
When am i going to stop talking about this? When you get the Halflings to throw the ring into a volcano, you put a hit out on me or i get discouraged enough to De-invest my interest that i have been cultivating for 5years.
You're being disingenuous. The goal is to make all choices viable. That requires, at the very least, pruning out the nonviable choices (although they're still struggling with that with some feats on some classes, evidence of their commitment to the goal is all over the place).
Would I love to see each feat do more, and restrict you less? Sure. Would I love to see a third choice on each row? Absolutely. But don't malign their intentions when it's clear the problem is execution.
'disingenuous' implies that i am being deceptive. I am telling the truth as i see it. If you think i am being inaccurate that is another thing. Also i did not Malign their intentions, i am pointing out how abstruse and seemingly contradictory their decisions are. I am criticizing their actions not their intent. There would be eaiser ways to sink the game then building a whole new campaign. I don't think they are deliberately trying to sink the game. I am just arguing that that their actions are hard to understand because of their counter intuitive reasoning.
I haven't called anyone the devil or threatened to nuke anyone's cat. I am just questioning their actions.
Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
Comments
Don't Panic! Yet.
Now imagine feeling like all of that effort -- no, all of that time -- was just made meaningless.
Time is the one truly unrecoverable commodity that we all have. Once spent, you can never get it back -- it's gone forever.
I don't think the devs fully grasp how much that will hurt when this mod hits. It's going to leave a sour taste for a great many players, and it's the sort of wound that takes an enormous amount of time to heal, if ever.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
I think that its a bit too late for such a feedback, but providing it later would be even more irrelevant.
Frankly I even wonder where to start. OK – I was a great supporter of MOD 16.
I am veteran player with over 200 days of play time under my mains belt. I know it may sounds bad like I boast myself – but really I was there I done that you know... and with that, I knew that game is heading a wrong way with all that power creep/share and overall god mode of end game players.
Something had to be done to prevent this game, having almost unlimited potential, from falling.
Since MOD 13/14 it was pretty much uncontrollable fall.
Many, at some point even myself, lost hope that devs are able to actually do something about it – yet we were wrong. The very first news that game is going to be totaly reworked was a great news for me, and for many others already bored with a game, heck even a new players in my guild find it a way to mayby that brings them a easier path to end game etc. Hard reset is always a fresh start after all.
I knew that such change will not go without a price – and I was more then ready to pay that price for a greater good and game longevity.
I must add here that I made a lot of effort to keep my guild informed and prepared, we even created a internal alliance manual about MOD 16 changes and so on. I was so optimistic......but...
First glimpse on test server was a mix of great and bad news – but that was expected. Next weeks of feedback – and I must add- for the first time our feedback was taken into consideration, made me optimistic even more. Sure there was issues – Abilities mess, boons debasement,multiple issues on every classes, but in general all that chenage was heading a good way – untill march 29th build.
Suddenly a lot of things changed:
you literally took half of our statistics with a change of ratio to 1000:1%
you made campaign boons reworked all right but with decresed values even more negligible
that moves made our enchantments, campaign boons, legendary mounts, insygnias - and realmoney/effort to get those irrelevant
you decided to change so expected enchantment exchange from free to BtA
you changed damage resistant to 50% so there is no longer a reason to play tanks any more
and of top of that you nerfed all classes magnitudes across a board to make our progress even slower.
Add to that already existing issues like scaling or actuall classes smilarity or no real choice in classes builds etc and I really cant find a reason to be optimistic any more. Sure thare are some great changes but those do not overweight those bad ones any more....
And best part is I type that from BIS player perspective.
Most of players in my guild and out there are far from it.
How can you expect a new player to level up through a Vanrakdoom having 9k IL? Cos you do not belive he gona stop at level 70 dont you? Or even try to do some campaigns witch are currently broken and in fact even harder?
How can you expect veteren player to stay entartained while there would be literaly 1 dungeon ment for level 80 BIS players while rest gona be scaling broken unrewarding level 70?
How can you expect players to pursue ranking up enchantments or getting legendary mounts when those in terms of ratings are so not worth any afferot and – again thanks to scalling – its not important if its rank 15 or 10 as it works same on certain maps?
And last but fundamental question:
How taking all that together you expect to earn more money on that game?
I mean really I dont mind company is having profit – but how are you going to achieve that with such approach? You really belive a new player will spend real money to buy worthless rank 15 enchant or legendary mounts? Or any player will spent a month of rAD refine to get enaugh to rank his enchantment or two up? Really? You really think players are that stupid nor can count?
Players are ready to pay real money while they are entertained and see a reson with it.
We are NOT entartained.
And due to solutions you took – new players with witch a MOD 16 is firmly in mind, are not gona be entertained either.
And to make things clear here – as I mentioned – I do understand reason of changes, I do support the goals of changes, I support idea that this game needs to be more demanding, but what I simply cannot understand is why you always choose a worst possible way that leads to designated target....and best part is you were on right track....but you lost it..... so I lost my optimism with it.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Tanks are not sturdy any more - just less squishy
In fact none of those increasing DR skills gona be used as its a waste of slot - made few solo tests and its a fact. If DR nerf would not take tanks into consideration then yeah.
But for now weak shield is only thing witch makes tanks different, that, higher aggro and lot lower dps not even close to 70% damage of dps classes output as @asterdahl wanned to achive.(just take a look on fabricants tests)
Basic DR cap due to increased combined rating is easier to achieve for any class now.
And recent shield change is...not a real change... but lets stop thet off topic here
Check the preview Fighter section. I and several other testers have quantified how bad the new shield system works.
A 300K HP Vanguard has an ~98kHP shield. That shield is not protected by DR, Deflect or any other internal mitigation. Against mini-bosses (eg. LoL Scorpions) and final bosses, that shield is shredded almost immediately.
The tab Mark, an important aggro management tool, was replaced with the Fighter tab function ("Dig-In").
Dig In is redundant, almost identical to shift-shield.
Worse, Dig In offers slightly more personal protection at the expense of total immobility and loss of aggro.
These are worse tanking abilities, not better.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
As to the LoL thing, might that not be a problem with the scaling system being buggy as all get out?
[Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 92573 (472493) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast.
[Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 7972 (24300) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast.
[Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 112290 (428222) Fire Damage to you with Rain of Fire.
[Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 7972 (24300) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast.
[Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 310357 (472998) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast.
Isn't exactly the sort of things you want to see when 533kHP in 80 zones turns into 366k in LoL, I cannot imagine that is WAI, because even with a party that isn't getting survived.
So, no, I don't consider things to be worse for tanks when you go to places and do things where the game is working (which is pretty much anywhere there is no scaling in effect).
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
The result is that they have a lot of Astral Diamonds left.
Meanwhile, I'm among those players waiting to see if a miracle happens. However, I have questions:
Now that there are so many black market offerings that are not only out of the game but also in the NV Chat, they are offering half-price Astral Diamonds for Real Money - Can you tell me what you intend to do? It is the result of the upcoming changes you are making and I would like to know your answer.
You will soon have a huge amount of AD among players in the game. On the other hand, you can't drain it quickly without compromising new players. So what happens?
Shield should be 50% of max HP, and take all passive defences into account.
However, almost all the enchantment are devalued and do not provide almost any profit from the upgrade. Insignia and companions are a good but overpriced investment, but whoever believes it is at the same time setting up the system when the exchange of equipment will change unpredictably statistics is not just cashgrab.
After all, things like Coalescent Ward are already selling at half the price for VIPs, but the use of upgrading degraded enchants is almost wasteful and nothing else is.
In addition, the game tries to move the trading items to the tokens of companions and insignias whose resources are at the ZEN market. That wouldn't matter so much, but I see the problem in the deliberate liquidation of enchantment, which was the only usable trader's prodding that cost a lot of time and money.
Of course blasting is a matter of disposing of all weapon enchancements but Vorpal must remain otherwise would be critical stats for laughter. Players sometimes have 2 or more armor and weapon enchancements, which they have given in the order of millions and have been waiting for more than a year. E.g. No one will resurrect the Weapon enchancements because it would break the meaning of critic injury and the vorpal is the only thing that holds it.
I do not understand where to take so much courage and guesslessly tell players that they will never sell what they exchange for new.
I’ve been doing plenty of solo experiments as well, my experience is clearly different to yours. The #1 problem is that all scaled content is buggy with at least something in any given HE or dungeon doing massively inflated damage compared to everything else. Go to Lair of the Mad Mage and things work better.
Much as I appreciate Sharpedge’s efforts there is no way to get maximum dps out of a Paladin tank with a static dummy, his data from group play shows as much. I would have to spend the time digging into Ftr and Bbn mechanics to know if the same is true for them (my Bbn play is more about “do I enjoy it” than “is this right mechanically” because I don’t have the experience with the class to judge, Ftr is about “does this feel different to Pal?” only).
I’ve run into the player who thinks they can tank with Dreadnaught, then complains that it doesn’t work and that only Paladins can tank now. So you’ll forgive me for being skeptical of some community feedback of the sky is falling type as well. (Not that I think you or Took are doing that, but those players are out there.)
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
1) Fix critical bugs.
2) Complete unfinished content.
3) Generate an update with an update log posted. (so players can playtest)
4) Add a boost to Deflection. such as:
Damage is reduced by 50%. A targeting attacker becomes marked for 2 seconds.
Ideally, the duration of this mark would be modified by control and control resistance (duration halved vs bosses). This kills several birds with one stone. First, deflection becomes equivalent to defense. Accuracy becomes accordingly more important. Most importantly, this gives PvE monsters a way to get combat advantage on players... which raises the value of Awareness. It ensures that even solo players without a way to otherwise produce combat advantage, will benefit from the combat advantage stat. Some additional PvP depth is gained as well. This stat change is not overpowered because it cannot raise damage potential above the current maximum. If a player with 50% deflection is attacked by a mob targeting them once per second... approximately 75% of the mob will be marked at any given time. This is in a full-out blitz situation with MAX deflection.
5) Modify the scaling system to preserve enough player power, that the player is more powerful after improving a character than before they improved it, regardless of where they take that character. Example of a system: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IzEMyxeth8GXrwy-jVxGnzO2xeyNp6lhUkQ_Ka3XW9Y/edit?usp=sharing
6) Implement some Paragon skill and feat modifications for ALL classes, according to perceived needs and analysis.
7) Balance companion damage output if needed.
50% to 80% of current amount seems about right to me. Companions should not do more damage than the player. We dont want every player running a companion power-stack build because it gives top DPS.
8) Documentation, advertising, and public relations.
9) Minor bugs and cosmetic improvements.
I belive these additional improvements are 'low-hanging fruit' worth the time+cost to incorporate in order to escalate player satisfaction and improve reception:
o Bind 25 exchange tokens to every account that was created at least 30 days before the M16 launch. An exchange token is consumed for each Enchantment and Runestone swap at the Antiquities Dealer. The newly received items become "temporarily" bound to account for 30 days.
o Make campaign Signets of Patronage available at the Crown exchange vendor for about 1000 crowns each. This will ease the pain of grinding every repeatable quest in the campaigns. If the campaigns are fun enough that most players play them rather than sit them out... then it is adding desirable game content.
o Critical Severity - I suggest setting general enemy critical severity at 110%, and boss critical severity at 80%. Giving mobs a high critical severity adds more risk, so players dont go to sleep fighting the mobs. Keeping Boss critical severity lower will reduce the number of one-hit kill instances, which is no fun for anyone.
o Publish a list of specifically which skills and item effects can raise values of stats "Beyond their CAP" and to what limit.
With the changes to what each Ability Score does, despite now being set (and still needing some default allocation or individual Score function work for a few classes but plenty of people have expressed this already) people will need to be able to allocate their Racial Bonuses to fit the new system and yes, be able to change Races if they wish to.
I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
Sure we can discuss here (better not - off topic) how different tank classes utilise a skills etc, but it wont change a fact. And I think I dont need to point out how short sighted this approach is (HP increase vs enemies dmg increase mod to mod).
And I do tests on SoT (broken I know but it is still broken in the same way so in fact it is indicator) and LotMM.
The actual problems are that
- Ability to "roll" initial stats is being taken away (even if it is just a matter of selecting from a set of predetermined distributions, at least it gave the illusion of having some control.
- The fixed initial distribution of stats is really inappropriate for some classes, considering which bonuses the stats actually give.
- The stat distribution is problematic for classes with two roles. If you really want to focus on one role, you cannot pick stats that are optimal for that, at the cost of sacrificing effectiveness for the other role. In stead you get stuck with a boring "middle-of the road" distribution.
- The three points above are irrelevant because the stat bonuses are so insignificant that they don't really matter at all.
The fact is that the only thing that really matters is "are you Dragonborn or not" ?In order to reduce wrong choices on character start they reduce choices period but none of them are the right choice.
In order to more concisely explain damage they change to a system that is not explained and adds further math to even figure out what you are doing and if it is working.
Do you see why we have such a hard time figuring out what the infested hamstering meat crack is really going on or where you are taking the game?
And mod16 straight up destroys much of the interest that was to be found in the old system.
On live sure things are complicated and a bit of a mess but the ability to learn and experiment and i liked that. Mod16, you have no meaningful options. To quote Shammy (a youtuber): " I Guess i have been told to be myself one too many times so naturally i am going to put a lot of stock into being able to express myself." On live you choose a class to play WITH, while in mod16 you pick a class to play AS.
I could understand if you are doing this because you are struggling so you need to use resources more efficiently, but i keep being told you aren't being de-prioritized so you aren't killing my fun because you need to, you just want to.
i am not adverse to class re-balancing but this is a little too much. We are so restricted into one thing that isn't crafted to be played on its own. We no longer get play with our 'favorite class lore/flavor wise' the most the solos get is maybe the Cleric.
When am i going to stop talking about this? When you get the Halflings to throw the ring into a volcano, you put a hit out on me or i get discouraged enough to De-invest my interest that i have been cultivating for 5years.
I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
tried mines again from 70 to 80 and i don't feel it 's better, to be honest the 3 i tried i had a worst experience, i had to rely on my pets most of the time and i don't believe that was intent...
maybe a the old version with a buff for all at-will's would had being better I belive pets dmg was a good, not too big and not useless before the last stats/critter HP changes last friday
roling back those changes and increasing atwill dmg would fix that
Obs.: (cant say for toons leveling from 01-70 only tested 70-80 with the neverember gift gear...)
Would I love to see each feat do more, and restrict you less? Sure. Would I love to see a third choice on each row? Absolutely. But don't malign their intentions when it's clear the problem is execution.
Also i did not Malign their intentions, i am pointing out how abstruse and seemingly contradictory their decisions are. I am criticizing their actions not their intent. There would be eaiser ways to sink the game then building a whole new campaign. I don't think they are deliberately trying to sink the game. I am just arguing that that their actions are hard to understand because of their counter intuitive reasoning.
I haven't called anyone the devil or threatened to nuke anyone's cat. I am just questioning their actions.
I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.