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Official M16: General Feedback

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  • karvarekarvare Member Posts: 159 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Neverwinter will survive mod 16. Some will leave but over time some will return and others join. Yes, there are problems still in the game. Solo play will require learning new ways to get to a similar result. PUGs will be Hell on Earth and I will avoid them like the plaque. Adjustments will be on going. Please God, that boon (lingering medication or whatever) will finally end. Been sitting at 1 sec left for a week now, its nice to get free heals but this is redonkeylass. Life will not end until after Labor Day, tho not sure what year.

    Don't Panic! Yet.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    Ahm @gripnir78 tanks got more relevant with the DR change not less. A tank can still put up their shield and soak 100% of a hit (as long as it doesn’t exceed their shield’s value).
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 374 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    Ahm @gripnir78 tanks got more relevant with the DR change not less. A tank can still put up their shield and soak 100% of a hit (as long as it doesn’t exceed their shield’s value).

    :D nah they just make those encounters adding to DR almost relevant :D but thats not the same.
    Tanks are not sturdy any more - just less squishy :D
    In fact none of those increasing DR skills gona be used as its a waste of slot - made few solo tests and its a fact. If DR nerf would not take tanks into consideration then yeah.
    But for now weak shield is only thing witch makes tanks different, that, higher aggro and lot lower dps not even close to 70% damage of dps classes output as @asterdahl wanned to achive.(just take a look on fabricants tests)

    Basic DR cap due to increased combined rating is easier to achieve for any class now.
    And recent shield change is...not a real change... but lets stop thet off topic here :D
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User


    The role (or rather dependence of other classes) of tanks has indeed been made more critical, but the ability to tank has been greatly lessened.
    Check the preview Fighter section. I and several other testers have quantified how bad the new shield system works.
    A 300K HP Vanguard has an ~98kHP shield. That shield is not protected by DR, Deflect or any other internal mitigation. Against mini-bosses (eg. LoL Scorpions) and final bosses, that shield is shredded almost immediately.
    The tab Mark, an important aggro management tool, was replaced with the Fighter tab function ("Dig-In").
    Dig In is redundant, almost identical to shift-shield.
    Worse, Dig In offers slightly more personal protection at the expense of total immobility and loss of aggro.

    These are worse tanking abilities, not better.

    I have no horse in the Fighter race, sure I have one and I have messed around with it on Preview, but in terms of its ultimate outcome... I'm listening to those who are experienced with the class. (And given the discussion of Shield/Tab for Paladins I hear you on Dig In.)

    As to the LoL thing, might that not be a problem with the scaling system being buggy as all get out?

    [Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 92573 (472493) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast.
    [Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 7972 (24300) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast.
    [Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 112290 (428222) Fire Damage to you with Rain of Fire.
    [Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 7972 (24300) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast.
    [Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 310357 (472998) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast.


    Isn't exactly the sort of things you want to see when 533kHP in 80 zones turns into 366k in LoL, I cannot imagine that is WAI, because even with a party that isn't getting survived.

    So, no, I don't consider things to be worse for tanks when you go to places and do things where the game is working (which is pretty much anywhere there is no scaling in effect).

    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • malificent#6701 malificent Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    I have been creating low level characters in an effort to better understand how they are meant to be played now. I only use the armour and weapons that I am awarded, as new players don't have access to AD and gold, silver and copper early in the game. I find I am struggling to kill the enemy creatures on every different class I've tried so far. I'm pretty sure it's not because I'm playing the class wrong, then I realised it's the weapons. I am trying to kill Karzov in the black dagger headquarters and my weapon is practically useless because it is too low a level and I die over and over. My thoughts are make the reward weapons a little better so that new players will enjoy the game more as they are levelling up. Also my character just got to level 12, my question is: do we now have to finish 5 different areas before we can use the auction house? I was so relieved that they removed the restriction before, now it seems they have put it back on.
  • miotest#5683 miotest Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Dear Change Designers in NW - MOD 16. I play on xbox and watch a big decline in population to a greater extent. Many players have sold their complete equipment because they understand that you are going to devalue it and have too much of a barrier to the future - which they can't handle.

    The result is that they have a lot of Astral Diamonds left.

    Meanwhile, I'm among those players waiting to see if a miracle happens. However, I have questions:

    Now that there are so many black market offerings that are not only out of the game but also in the NV Chat, they are offering half-price Astral Diamonds for Real Money - Can you tell me what you intend to do? It is the result of the upcoming changes you are making and I would like to know your answer.

    You will soon have a huge amount of AD among players in the game. On the other hand, you can't drain it quickly without compromising new players. So what happens?
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User

    Ahm @gripnir78 tanks got more relevant with the DR change not less. A tank can still put up their shield and soak 100% of a hit (as long as it doesn’t exceed their shield’s value).

    The role (or rather dependence of other classes) of tanks has indeed been made more critical, but the ability to tank has been greatly lessened.
    Check the preview Fighter section. I and several other testers have quantified how bad the new shield system works.
    A 300K HP Vanguard has an ~98kHP shield. That shield is not protected by DR, Deflect or any other internal mitigation. Against mini-bosses (eg. LoL Scorpions) and final bosses, that shield is shredded almost immediately.
    The tab Mark, an important aggro management tool, was replaced with the Fighter tab function ("Dig-In").
    Dig In is redundant, almost identical to shift-shield.
    Worse, Dig In offers slightly more personal protection at the expense of total immobility and loss of aggro.

    These are worse tanking abilities, not better.
    That's not working as intended.

    Shield should be 50% of max HP, and take all passive defences into account.
  • valetudo78valetudo78 Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    Binding enchants to account will not help the economy, it will only make it worse. You need to add more AD sinks in the game outside the zen market. The last time I saw a good/stable economy in Neverwinter was years ago when most items you got in dungeouns where unbound. The auction house is in terrible shape and taking more items away from the market is only gonna make it worse. I question wether you even want to fix the AD/zen problems? I get the feeling your trying to push peeps to buy zen rather than trade zen.
  • miotest#5683 miotest Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    Binding enchants to account will not help the economy, it will only make it worse. You need to add more AD sinks in the game outside the zen market. The last time I saw a good/stable economy in Neverwinter was years ago when most items you got in dungeouns where unbound. The auction house is in terrible shape and taking more items away from the market is only gonna make it worse. I question wether you even want to fix the AD/zen problems? I get the feeling your trying to push peeps to buy zen rather than trade zen.

    To make sales work, people must feel that they are investing in something long-term and something that will bring benefits for more than one MOD.

    However, almost all the enchantment are devalued and do not provide almost any profit from the upgrade. Insignia and companions are a good but overpriced investment, but whoever believes it is at the same time setting up the system when the exchange of equipment will change unpredictably statistics is not just cashgrab.

    After all, things like Coalescent Ward are already selling at half the price for VIPs, but the use of upgrading degraded enchants is almost wasteful and nothing else is.

    In addition, the game tries to move the trading items to the tokens of companions and insignias whose resources are at the ZEN market. That wouldn't matter so much, but I see the problem in the deliberate liquidation of enchantment, which was the only usable trader's prodding that cost a lot of time and money.

    Of course blasting is a matter of disposing of all weapon enchancements but Vorpal must remain otherwise would be critical stats for laughter. Players sometimes have 2 or more armor and weapon enchancements, which they have given in the order of millions and have been waiting for more than a year. E.g. No one will resurrect the Weapon enchancements because it would break the meaning of critic injury and the vorpal is the only thing that holds it.

    I do not understand where to take so much courage and guesslessly tell players that they will never sell what they exchange for new.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    gripnir78 said:

    :D nah they just make those encounters adding to DR almost relevant :D but thats not the same.
    Tanks are not sturdy any more - just less squishy :D
    In fact none of those increasing DR skills gona be used as its a waste of slot - made few solo tests and its a fact. If DR nerf would not take tanks into consideration then yeah.
    But for now weak shield is only thing witch makes tanks different, that, higher aggro and lot lower dps not even close to 70% damage of dps classes output as @asterdahl wanned to achive.(just take a look on fabricants tests)

    Basic DR cap due to increased combined rating is easier to achieve for any class now.
    And recent shield change is...not a real change... but lets stop thet off topic here :D

    Only “increase DR” skill I have been running is Shield of Faith, and that mostly for the feat that makes casting it refill my Stamina.

    I’ve been doing plenty of solo experiments as well, my experience is clearly different to yours. The #1 problem is that all scaled content is buggy with at least something in any given HE or dungeon doing massively inflated damage compared to everything else. Go to Lair of the Mad Mage and things work better.

    Much as I appreciate Sharpedge’s efforts there is no way to get maximum dps out of a Paladin tank with a static dummy, his data from group play shows as much. I would have to spend the time digging into Ftr and Bbn mechanics to know if the same is true for them (my Bbn play is more about “do I enjoy it” than “is this right mechanically” because I don’t have the experience with the class to judge, Ftr is about “does this feel different to Pal?” only).

    I’ve run into the player who thinks they can tank with Dreadnaught, then complains that it doesn’t work and that only Paladins can tank now. So you’ll forgive me for being skeptical of some community feedback of the sky is falling type as well. (Not that I think you or Took are doing that, but those players are out there.)
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,011 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    I leveled my hr to 80 when it was still 500/1. the damage and pacing felt fine then (knowing that we weren't getting melee values correctly) I just started my cw. it doesn't feel good at 1000/1. it feel worse than the hr did even with half its damage gone. I've been trying to get my arpen up to 57000 and it's not easy. the starter gear doesn't have it. the damage I'm doing is sooo small and the going is so slow. and the encounters fire off so slowly it just isn't fun. I intended on doing a couple levels today but it was so boring that I got up from my computer.. it needs better damage. it needs not not require such high arpen right out the gate too. (even with more arpen though I don't think it will solve the pacing or the damage dealt by THAT much. I think I'd managed to get it up to 52000 with some effort)
    Post edited by thefiresidecat on
    xbox guild

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Yes, that would solve the problem as well. I moved #5 down to priority #7, because the final player-companion balance wont be known for sure until that point.
  • tgwolftgwolf Member Posts: 258 Arc User
    One of the main things that needs to be impressed upon for it's importance is that when Mod16 goes live, every Character will NEED to be given a Race Change Token.

    With the changes to what each Ability Score does, despite now being set (and still needing some default allocation or individual Score function work for a few classes but plenty of people have expressed this already) people will need to be able to allocate their Racial Bonuses to fit the new system and yes, be able to change Races if they wish to.
  • douglasopferbeckdouglasopferbeck Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    Yeah totally disagree with your number 7. Companions are finally meaningful and not just bonding procers. Their damage is fine where it is at currently. I think the balance the devs achieved between augments and combat companions along with making any companion a potentially relevant summon is the most positive change this next mod.
  • bpstuartbpstuart Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    I am desperately hoping that any patches tomorrow improve things drastically cause i am loosing hope.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,011 Arc User

    Dear Change Designers in NW - MOD 16. I play on xbox and watch a big decline in population to a greater extent. Many players have sold their complete equipment because they understand that you are going to devalue it and have too much of a barrier to the future - which they can't handle.

    The result is that they have a lot of Astral Diamonds left.

    Meanwhile, I'm among those players waiting to see if a miracle happens. However, I have questions:

    Now that there are so many black market offerings that are not only out of the game but also in the NV Chat, they are offering half-price Astral Diamonds for Real Money - Can you tell me what you intend to do? It is the result of the upcoming changes you are making and I would like to know your answer.

    You will soon have a huge amount of AD among players in the game. On the other hand, you can't drain it quickly without compromising new players. So what happens?

    Banfest 2019
    xbox guild

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,011 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    Time is becoming short and stress is high all-around. This is a prioritized list of things i see as essential, before release:


    1) Fix critical bugs.

    2) Complete unfinished content.

    3) Generate an update with an update log posted. (so players can playtest)

    4) Add a boost to Deflection. such as:
    Damage is reduced by 50%. A targeting attacker becomes marked for 2 seconds.


    Ideally, the duration of this mark would be modified by control and control resistance (duration halved vs bosses). This kills several birds with one stone. First, deflection becomes equivalent to defense. Accuracy becomes accordingly more important. Most importantly, this gives PvE monsters a way to get combat advantage on players... which raises the value of Awareness. It ensures that even solo players without a way to otherwise produce combat advantage, will benefit from the combat advantage stat. Some additional PvP depth is gained as well. This stat change is not overpowered because it cannot raise damage potential above the current maximum. If a player with 50% deflection is attacked by a mob targeting them once per second... approximately 75% of the mob will be marked at any given time. This is in a full-out blitz situation with MAX deflection.

    5) Modify the scaling system to preserve enough player power, that the player is more powerful after improving a character than before they improved it, regardless of where they take that character. Example of a system: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IzEMyxeth8GXrwy-jVxGnzO2xeyNp6lhUkQ_Ka3XW9Y/edit?usp=sharing

    6) Implement some Paragon skill and feat modifications for ALL classes, according to perceived needs and analysis.

    7) Balance companion damage output if needed.
    50% to 80% of current amount seems about right to me. Companions should not do more damage than the player. We dont want every player running a companion power-stack build because it gives top DPS.

    8) Documentation, advertising, and public relations.

    9) Minor bugs and cosmetic improvements.


    I belive these additional improvements are 'low-hanging fruit' worth the time+cost to incorporate in order to escalate player satisfaction and improve reception:

    o Bind 25 exchange tokens to every account that was created at least 30 days before the M16 launch. An exchange token is consumed for each Enchantment and Runestone swap at the Antiquities Dealer. The newly received items become "temporarily" bound to account for 30 days.

    o Make campaign Signets of Patronage available at the Crown exchange vendor for about 1000 crowns each. This will ease the pain of grinding every repeatable quest in the campaigns. If the campaigns are fun enough that most players play them rather than sit them out... then it is adding desirable game content.

    o Critical Severity - I suggest setting general enemy critical severity at 110%, and boss critical severity at 80%. Giving mobs a high critical severity adds more risk, so players dont go to sleep fighting the mobs. Keeping Boss critical severity lower will reduce the number of one-hit kill instances, which is no fun for anyone.

    o Publish a list of specifically which skills and item effects can raise values of stats "Beyond their CAP" and to what limit.

    this is kind of hilarious. do you not think they have their own internal list of things to do mr bossman? LMAO. somehow I doubt your priorities and theirs align. If I were a dev I'd probably be a little peeved by this
    xbox guild

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • gripnir78gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 374 Arc User

    gripnir78 said:

    :D nah they just make those encounters adding to DR almost relevant :D but thats not the same.
    Tanks are not sturdy any more - just less squishy :D
    In fact none of those increasing DR skills gona be used as its a waste of slot - made few solo tests and its a fact. If DR nerf would not take tanks into consideration then yeah.
    But for now weak shield is only thing witch makes tanks different, that, higher aggro and lot lower dps not even close to 70% damage of dps classes output as @asterdahl wanned to achive.(just take a look on fabricants tests)

    Basic DR cap due to increased combined rating is easier to achieve for any class now.
    And recent shield change is...not a real change... but lets stop thet off topic here :D

    Only “increase DR” skill I have been running is Shield of Faith, and that mostly for the feat that makes casting it refill my Stamina.

    I’ve been doing plenty of solo experiments as well, my experience is clearly different to yours. The #1 problem is that all scaled content is buggy with at least something in any given HE or dungeon doing massively inflated damage compared to everything else. Go to Lair of the Mad Mage and things work better.

    Much as I appreciate Sharpedge’s efforts there is no way to get maximum dps out of a Paladin tank with a static dummy, his data from group play shows as much. I would have to spend the time digging into Ftr and Bbn mechanics to know if the same is true for them (my Bbn play is more about “do I enjoy it” than “is this right mechanically” because I don’t have the experience with the class to judge, Ftr is about “does this feel different to Pal?” only).

    I’ve run into the player who thinks they can tank with Dreadnaught, then complains that it doesn’t work and that only Paladins can tank now. So you’ll forgive me for being skeptical of some community feedback of the sky is falling type as well. (Not that I think you or Took are doing that, but those players are out there.)
    I am not saying sky is falling or something. All I say is...well how to descirbe it - imagine that our toons are big sacks of HP - a favourite meal of every mobs or bosses out there. :D Tanks are just a bigger sacks but not at all harder to bite and our HPs are more tasty (agro).

    Sure we can discuss here (better not - off topic) how different tank classes utilise a skills etc, but it wont change a fact. And I think I dont need to point out how short sighted this approach is (HP increase vs enemies dmg increase mod to mod).
    And I do tests on SoT (broken I know but it is still broken in the same way so in fact it is indicator) and LotMM.


  • taroka#8079 taroka Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    That's right. Never choose a Dragonborn, due to the hideous appearance. It would be nice to finally separate the "look" from the statistics, as it happened with the mounts and companions ...
  • bpstuartbpstuart Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    In order to get rid of people telling you how to play, the devs tell you how to play by forcing you to play one thing.
    In order to reduce wrong choices on character start they reduce choices period but none of them are the right choice.
    In order to more concisely explain damage they change to a system that is not explained and adds further math to even figure out what you are doing and if it is working.
    Do you see why we have such a hard time figuring out what the infested hamstering meat crack is really going on or where you are taking the game?

    And mod16 straight up destroys much of the interest that was to be found in the old system.
    On live sure things are complicated and a bit of a mess but the ability to learn and experiment and i liked that. Mod16, you have no meaningful options. To quote Shammy (a youtuber): " I Guess i have been told to be myself one too many times so naturally i am going to put a lot of stock into being able to express myself." On live you choose a class to play WITH, while in mod16 you pick a class to play AS.

    I could understand if you are doing this because you are struggling so you need to use resources more efficiently, but i keep being told you aren't being de-prioritized so you aren't killing my fun because you need to, you just want to.

    i am not adverse to class re-balancing but this is a little too much. We are so restricted into one thing that isn't crafted to be played on its own. We no longer get play with our 'favorite class lore/flavor wise' the most the solos get is maybe the Cleric.

    When am i going to stop talking about this? When you get the Halflings to throw the ring into a volcano, you put a hit out on me or i get discouraged enough to De-invest my interest that i have been cultivating for 5years.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • rafaeldarafaelda Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 639 Arc User
    Can anyone confirm if after the stats change the game got better in a starter gear, or for leveling characthers ?
    tried mines again from 70 to 80 and i don't feel it 's better, to be honest the 3 i tried i had a worst experience, i had to rely on my pets most of the time and i don't believe that was intent...

    maybe a the old version with a buff for all at-will's would had being better



    5) Decrease companion damage output. 40% to 80% of current amount seems about right.
    Companions should not do more damage than the player. We dont want every player running a companion power-stack build, because that gives top DPS.

    Why not increase overall dmg of classes instead of even more nerfs?
    I belive pets dmg was a good, not too big and not useless before the last stats/critter HP changes last friday
    roling back those changes and increasing atwill dmg would fix that

    Obs.: (cant say for toons leveling from 01-70 only tested 70-80 with the neverember gift gear...)
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User
    bpstuart said:

    In order to get rid of people telling you how to play, the devs tell you how to play by forcing you to play one thing.
    In order to reduce wrong choices on character start they reduce choices period but none of them are the right choice.
    In order to more concisely explain damage they change to a system that is not explained and adds further math to even figure out what you are doing and if it is working.
    Do you see why we have such a hard time figuring out what the infested hamstering meat crack is really going on or where you are taking the game?

    And mod16 straight up destroys much of the interest that was to be found in the old system.
    On live sure things are complicated and a bit of a mess but the ability to learn and experiment and i liked that. Mod16, you have no meaningful options. To quote Shammy (a youtuber): " I Guess i have been told to be myself one too many times so naturally i am going to put a lot of stock into being able to express myself." On live you choose a class to play WITH, while in mod16 you pick a class to play AS.

    I could understand if you are doing this because you are struggling so you need to use resources more efficiently, but i keep being told you aren't being de-prioritized so you aren't killing my fun because you need to, you just want to.

    i am not adverse to class re-balancing but this is a little too much. We are so restricted into one thing that isn't crafted to be played on its own. We no longer get play with our 'favorite class lore/flavor wise' the most the solos get is maybe the Cleric.

    When am i going to stop talking about this? When you get the Halflings to throw the ring into a volcano, you put a hit out on me or i get discouraged enough to De-invest my interest that i have been cultivating for 5years.

    You're being disingenuous. The goal is to make all choices viable. That requires, at the very least, pruning out the nonviable choices (although they're still struggling with that with some feats on some classes, evidence of their commitment to the goal is all over the place).

    Would I love to see each feat do more, and restrict you less? Sure. Would I love to see a third choice on each row? Absolutely. But don't malign their intentions when it's clear the problem is execution.
  • bpstuartbpstuart Member Posts: 202 Arc User

    bpstuart said:

    In order to get rid of people telling you how to play, the devs tell you how to play by forcing you to play one thing.
    In order to reduce wrong choices on character start they reduce choices period but none of them are the right choice.
    In order to more concisely explain damage they change to a system that is not explained and adds further math to even figure out what you are doing and if it is working.
    Do you see why we have such a hard time figuring out what the infested hamstering meat crack is really going on or where you are taking the game?

    And mod16 straight up destroys much of the interest that was to be found in the old system.
    On live sure things are complicated and a bit of a mess but the ability to learn and experiment and i liked that. Mod16, you have no meaningful options. To quote Shammy (a youtuber): " I Guess i have been told to be myself one too many times so naturally i am going to put a lot of stock into being able to express myself." On live you choose a class to play WITH, while in mod16 you pick a class to play AS.

    I could understand if you are doing this because you are struggling so you need to use resources more efficiently, but i keep being told you aren't being de-prioritized so you aren't killing my fun because you need to, you just want to.

    i am not adverse to class re-balancing but this is a little too much. We are so restricted into one thing that isn't crafted to be played on its own. We no longer get play with our 'favorite class lore/flavor wise' the most the solos get is maybe the Cleric.

    When am i going to stop talking about this? When you get the Halflings to throw the ring into a volcano, you put a hit out on me or i get discouraged enough to De-invest my interest that i have been cultivating for 5years.

    You're being disingenuous. The goal is to make all choices viable. That requires, at the very least, pruning out the nonviable choices (although they're still struggling with that with some feats on some classes, evidence of their commitment to the goal is all over the place).

    Would I love to see each feat do more, and restrict you less? Sure. Would I love to see a third choice on each row? Absolutely. But don't malign their intentions when it's clear the problem is execution.
    'disingenuous' implies that i am being deceptive. I am telling the truth as i see it. If you think i am being inaccurate that is another thing.
    Also i did not Malign their intentions, i am pointing out how abstruse and seemingly contradictory their decisions are. I am criticizing their actions not their intent. There would be eaiser ways to sink the game then building a whole new campaign. I don't think they are deliberately trying to sink the game. I am just arguing that that their actions are hard to understand because of their counter intuitive reasoning.

    I haven't called anyone the devil or threatened to nuke anyone's cat. I am just questioning their actions.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
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