arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
@thefabricant@rainer#8575 any formulas to know the real value of the damage of encounter powers, at-wills and daily powers, because that magnitude description is so messed up, i like to know the real damage they do. ty in advance, if anyone will make a video about it aswell will be appreciated.
> @arcanjo86 said: > @thefabricant@rainer#8575 any formulas to know the real value of the damage of encounter powers, at-wills and daily powers, because that magnitude description is so messed up, i like to know the real damage they do. ty in advance, if anyone will make a video about it aswell will be appreciated.
Planning to make a video and a calculator on this subject... actually Janne's website covers the calculation very accurately, so if you need the answer fast I would advise you to go there :-)
I don't know if this is a practical suggestion, but it struck me that it might be a good idea if the (typical) Mount Bonus was changed to a bonus to the relevant Percentage chance rather than the flat stat bonus currently?
That way, whatever you do with stats and ratios, those big spend, highly desirable, items such as Legendary Mounts will feel equally as effective if the value of the stat changes (such as dropping the ratio from 500:1 to 1000:1). It's hard to swallow that a green companion (that I got for nothing) giving a +2 or 3% bonus is completely unaffected by this change but most Legendary Mounts are cut in half by comparison.
Now that preview has been going for several weeks now and there has been an immense level of feedback for us to review, we have made some core changes to further improve the balance. These will likely go to preview later this week, barring any complications.
Encounter and Daily magnitudes have been brought down, making At-Will powers more effective in relation.
There has been no shortage of talk about At-Wills not feeling meaningful enough to want to use. While mathematically over the course of a fight, or dungeon run, they added up to a significant amount of damage, it didn't feel that way due to the size of individual hits. To bring At-Wills closer to other powers, we reduced the magnitudes of Encounter and Dailies and reduced overall critter health to adjust for the lower overall damage.
As with all aspects, further changes could happen before this goes live.
High there, Warlocks "At Wills" still seem to be from no importance actually in the damagetabe (10%) same as Dailies (4%). Mayby you need to nerf encounter damage for this class for another 200%, leading to a significant impact from AT Wills and making damagetable balanced. Or you lift Encounter-Cooldowns for 200%+, by that we have to fill the gap with At Will powers, maybe both is needed to deal 20%+ damage like GWF with At Will power. /sarcasm off Or maybe take into acount that some classes don´t use At Wills that often, having "low mag power" with 10 second cooldown from high recovery same as a 3 second encounter reset on top and will never deal a significant ammount of damage with AT Will powers at all that way. Better do "fine-tuning" to some classes next time over a flat change of all powers for all classes, obviously not knowing exactly, how classes are played and generate dps actually, even though it´s the class you do represant in the feedbackthread, at least I think you do?
> @schietindebux said: > Now that preview has been going for several weeks now and there has been an immense level of feedback for us to review, we have made some core changes to further improve the balance. These will likely go to preview later this week, barring any complications. > * Encounter and Daily magnitudes have been brought down, making At-Will powers more effective in relation. > > > There has been no shortage of talk about At-Wills not feeling meaningful enough to want to use. While mathematically over the course of a fight, or dungeon run, they added up to a significant amount of damage, it didn't feel that way due to the size of individual hits. To bring At-Wills closer to other powers, we reduced the magnitudes of Encounter and Dailies and reduced overall critter health to adjust for the lower overall damage. > > As with all aspects, further changes could happen before this goes live. > > High there, Warlocks "At Wills" still seem to be from no importance actually in the damagetabe (10%) same as Dailies (4%). > Mayby you need to nerf encounter damage for this class for another 200%, leading to a significant impact from AT Wills and making damagetable balanced. > Or you lift Encounter-Cooldowns for 200%+, by that we have to fill the gap with At Will powers, maybe both is needed to deal 20%+ damage like GWF with At Will power. > Or maybe take into acount that some classes don´t use At Wills that often, having "low mag power" with 10 second cooldown from high recovery same as a 3 second encounter reset on top and will never deal a significant ammount of damage with AT Will powers at all that way. > Better do "fine-tuning" to some classes next time over a flat change of all powers for all classes, obviously not knowing exactly, how classes are played and generate dps actually, even though it´s the class you do represant in the feedbackthread, at least I think you do?
Good gods, lowering the warlock encounter damage without lowering critter hit points would result only in warlocks doing even crappier damage then other classes. Yes, they need to take into account warlocks don’t benefit from the at will balance attempt. This is NOT even vaguely a solution.
> Now that preview has been going for several weeks now and there has been an immense level of feedback for us to review, we have made some core changes to further improve the balance. These will likely go to preview later this week, barring any complications.
> * Encounter and Daily magnitudes have been brought down, making At-Will powers more effective in relation.
>
>
> There has been no shortage of talk about At-Wills not feeling meaningful enough to want to use. While mathematically over the course of a fight, or dungeon run, they added up to a significant amount of damage, it didn't feel that way due to the size of individual hits. To bring At-Wills closer to other powers, we reduced the magnitudes of Encounter and Dailies and reduced overall critter health to adjust for the lower overall damage.
>
> As with all aspects, further changes could happen before this goes live.
>
> High there, Warlocks "At Wills" still seem to be from no importance actually in the damagetabe (10%) same as Dailies (4%).
> Mayby you need to nerf encounter damage for this class for another 200%, leading to a significant impact from AT Wills and making damagetable balanced.
> Or you lift Encounter-Cooldowns for 200%+, by that we have to fill the gap with At Will powers, maybe both is needed to deal 20%+ damage like GWF with At Will power.
> Or maybe take into acount that some classes don´t use At Wills that often, having "low mag power" with 10 second cooldown from high recovery same as a 3 second encounter reset on top and will never deal a significant ammount of damage with AT Will powers at all that way.
> Better do "fine-tuning" to some classes next time over a flat change of all powers for all classes, obviously not knowing exactly, how classes are played and generate dps actually, even though it´s the class you do represant in the feedbackthread, at least I think you do?
Good gods, lowering the warlock encounter damage without lowering critter hit points would result only in warlocks doing even crappier damage then other classes. Yes, they need to take into account warlocks don’t benefit from the at will balance attempt. This is NOT even vaguely a solution.
I wanted to point at the fact that some classes are not played as a melee class, if devs really tink all classes should be played as a GWF they should tell us. Give us a Silversword then.
Haven't checked the previous posts so this not continuous in the thread.
I will say this for the stat changes:
I tried Undermountain using the provided gear from Neverember as a new toon on preview pre-patch. Needless to say it did not go very well at all.
Today, post-patch, it is a lot smoother. Bearing in mind my preview toon has at best the provided gear, no insignia bonuses, mostly white companions and PBs, green preview artifacts.
An improvement at such a low level, must also have an improved performance at higher levels (or at least I'd guess so).
It certainly appears this patch has improved the "new" player experience.
Haven't checked the previous posts so this not continuous in the thread.
I will say this for the stat changes:
I tried Undermountain using the provided gear from Neverember as a new toon on preview pre-patch. Needless to say it did not go very well at all.
Today, post-patch, it is a lot smoother. Bearing in mind my preview toon has at best the provided gear, no insignia bonuses, mostly white companions and PBs, green preview artifacts.
An improvement at such a low level, must also have an improved performance at higher levels (or at least I'd guess so).
It certainly appears this patch has improved the "new" player experience.
a lot smoother? Critters die like flies I´d say, having decent gear, not balanced in my world.
1
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited March 2019
When i scale down for 70 content all my stats are lower and i dont have the penetration i need 54k vs 57k. when i do 80 content my stats are capped.
is that a bug or the scaling meant to be like this?
mobs have 60000 ratings for Defense, Deflect, Combat Advantage, and Critical Strike other stats are 10k.
Corrected. Thanks!
watch the screenshots above you because of the scaling you need to put more penetration to able to do 70 content.i have no idea if is intended to be like this.
IN MODEL 16 THE MECHANICS OF THE GAME CHANGES IN A RADICAL WAY AND IN A HORRIBLE WAY, I WOULD LIKE A REPLY TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE REASON FOR THE GAME DEVELOPERS WANT US PLAYERS STOP PLAYING FOR EVER.
First, it is "Module", not "Model". Second, your CapsLock key seems to be stuck. Third, the reasons for the changes are probably the following:
The calculations in the game were getting too heavy, with all the different conditionally-activated powers and such. This could cause lag. Hence, simplified bonuses - generally not requiring heavy calculations.
The complexity of the code made it hard to maintain, partially because some of the developers who wrote the code originally are gone. So, everything is simplified.
Power sharing and lifesteal resulted in real issues with balancing the difficulty of content and the silly situation of players being either dead or at full HP...nothing in between. Healers were not wanted.
Excessive buffs made a big difference between parties with great buffers and parties with "bad" buffers. By mostly removing buffing, differences in performance between "good" groups and "bad" groups should be reduced.
Having feat/boon/stat choices that made an actual difference made characters too "variable", so all the choices had to be made meaningless to make it easier to "balance" everything. This also made the game less complicated for certain segments of the player community.
Everyone was using the same set of companions, so companions buffs were removed - so the difference between those with the "best" companions and those with "average" companions is minimized.
Just so you know this latest update killed allot of classes the players who were crying about at wills not doing much dmg were players who still think buffs is meta and at -wills were fine........ what you really did was nerf our main source of dps (encounters/dailies) and buffed something that didnt need a buff (buff is unnoticeable btw so its just a hard nerf for classes like paladin who depended alot on encounter power to clear mobs since they have a mana bar( divinity) and a 10% debuff to dps........ if players were complaining about at wills then just put another 10-25 magnitude on them dont nerf encounters and dailies when it wasnt needed for example paladins now have a weaker clear with a pool of 1000 divinity they can only use like 4 banes which does no dmg ....... so was the NERF (this isnt a adjustment its a nerf) worth it ........ most lowbie plays and paladins would agree that the nerf was not worth it much like the dig in class mechanic for fighters this "update" has no point ...... maybe other than shuting up the player who whine that at wills do no dmg without thinking that something that takes no resources and has no cooldown shouldnt be too impactful
I have been testing level 80 and critters seem to be 10K/60K.
What about critters inside LoMM?
I have not tested LoMM
0
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
check weapons artifact modification, they now add stats rating and utility stats ratings and no longer give extra effects to at-wills(a way to make at-wills important @noworries#8859 ) and class features.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
imo this needs a ton of balancing at this point. the difficulty is greater than is pleasurable. I have a bunch of level 13 plus enchants on my toon. I outfitted a new arti set and a new armor set. but didn't balance any stats. then I tried to solo cn. (and don't focus on solo cn pls I was just looking for an entry level but difficult mob to test against, I wasn't trying to solo the whole thing. I couldn't remember which zone in underdark had level 80 mobs) and the first group of demons was untouchable. they were HAMSTER slapping me dead over and over I couldn't even get a look at what my stats were with a comp.
what this says to me is that it is unlikely lower level dungeons are going to be doable even with a group. (of randoms) and people who do have balanced stats will not waste time on helping lower levels. if they do random it will be in premades only unless the dungeon chest rewards are retweaked in all the old dungeons to make it worth running at the same difficulty level as the end game dungeons. that is true probably regardless though, the lower level dungeons are only worth running even now for the random reward and because it's quick. so unless rewards are tweaked no one will touch lower level dungeons going forward.
I haven't found a level 80 zone yet but if you make it so that people have to spend hours killing random mobs in the wild people just won' tbother and will go find something else to do. that's not fun.
please dont focus so much on stats and balancing that you lose track of fun because that IS what will make the lower levels AND the higher levels move on. what's going on here just isn't fun or rewarding.
The current scaling system scales poorly, lacks cap space for critical hit%, and severely caps the effectiveness of awareness, accuracy, crit resist, and armor penetration at extreme low levels.
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> @thefabricant @rainer#8575 any formulas to know the real value of the damage of encounter powers, at-wills and daily powers, because that magnitude description is so messed up, i like to know the real damage they do. ty in advance, if anyone will make a video about it aswell will be appreciated.
Planning to make a video and a calculator on this subject... actually Janne's website covers the calculation very accurately, so if you need the answer fast I would advise you to go there :-)
Twitch
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The new stat caps for LoMM are :
It's kinda funny that a dummy can dodge an attack, and even funnier that critters can dodge DoT effects.
mobs have
60000 ratings for Defense, Deflect, Combat Advantage, and Critical Strike
other stats are 10k.
That way, whatever you do with stats and ratios, those big spend, highly desirable, items such as Legendary Mounts will feel equally as effective if the value of the stat changes (such as dropping the ratio from 500:1 to 1000:1).
It's hard to swallow that a green companion (that I got for nothing) giving a +2 or 3% bonus is completely unaffected by this change but most Legendary Mounts are cut in half by comparison.
Just an idea...
Mayby you need to nerf encounter damage for this class for another 200%, leading to a significant impact from AT Wills and making damagetable balanced.
Or you lift Encounter-Cooldowns for 200%+, by that we have to fill the gap with At Will powers, maybe both is needed to deal 20%+ damage like GWF with At Will power.
/sarcasm off
Or maybe take into acount that some classes don´t use At Wills that often, having "low mag power" with 10 second cooldown from high recovery same as a 3 second encounter reset on top and will never deal a significant ammount of damage with AT Will powers at all that way.
Better do "fine-tuning" to some classes next time over a flat change of all powers for all classes, obviously not knowing exactly, how classes are played and generate dps actually, even though it´s the class you do represant in the feedbackthread, at least I think you do?
> Now that preview has been going for several weeks now and there has been an immense level of feedback for us to review, we have made some core changes to further improve the balance. These will likely go to preview later this week, barring any complications.
> * Encounter and Daily magnitudes have been brought down, making At-Will powers more effective in relation.
>
>
> There has been no shortage of talk about At-Wills not feeling meaningful enough to want to use. While mathematically over the course of a fight, or dungeon run, they added up to a significant amount of damage, it didn't feel that way due to the size of individual hits. To bring At-Wills closer to other powers, we reduced the magnitudes of Encounter and Dailies and reduced overall critter health to adjust for the lower overall damage.
>
> As with all aspects, further changes could happen before this goes live.
>
> High there, Warlocks "At Wills" still seem to be from no importance actually in the damagetabe (10%) same as Dailies (4%).
> Mayby you need to nerf encounter damage for this class for another 200%, leading to a significant impact from AT Wills and making damagetable balanced.
> Or you lift Encounter-Cooldowns for 200%+, by that we have to fill the gap with At Will powers, maybe both is needed to deal 20%+ damage like GWF with At Will power.
> Or maybe take into acount that some classes don´t use At Wills that often, having "low mag power" with 10 second cooldown from high recovery same as a 3 second encounter reset on top and will never deal a significant ammount of damage with AT Will powers at all that way.
> Better do "fine-tuning" to some classes next time over a flat change of all powers for all classes, obviously not knowing exactly, how classes are played and generate dps actually, even though it´s the class you do represant in the feedbackthread, at least I think you do?
Good gods, lowering the warlock encounter damage without lowering critter hit points would result only in warlocks doing even crappier damage then other classes. Yes, they need to take into account warlocks don’t benefit from the at will balance attempt. This is NOT even vaguely a solution.
I will say this for the stat changes:
I tried Undermountain using the provided gear from Neverember as a new toon on preview pre-patch. Needless to say it did not go very well at all.
Today, post-patch, it is a lot smoother. Bearing in mind my preview toon has at best the provided gear, no insignia bonuses, mostly white companions and PBs, green preview artifacts.
An improvement at such a low level, must also have an improved performance at higher levels (or at least I'd guess so).
It certainly appears this patch has improved the "new" player experience.
Critters die like flies I´d say, having decent gear, not balanced in my world.
When i scale down for 70 content all my stats are lower and i dont have the penetration i need 54k vs 57k.
when i do 80 content my stats are capped.
is that a bug or the scaling meant to be like this?
Problem with feedback from different ends of the spectrum is that there is never a real happy medium.
So what do (the devs) do? Who do we satisfy?
what this says to me is that it is unlikely lower level dungeons are going to be doable even with a group. (of randoms) and people who do have balanced stats will not waste time on helping lower levels. if they do random it will be in premades only unless the dungeon chest rewards are retweaked in all the old dungeons to make it worth running at the same difficulty level as the end game dungeons. that is true probably regardless though, the lower level dungeons are only worth running even now for the random reward and because it's quick. so unless rewards are tweaked no one will touch lower level dungeons going forward.
I haven't found a level 80 zone yet but if you make it so that people have to spend hours killing random mobs in the wild people just won' tbother and will go find something else to do. that's not fun.
please dont focus so much on stats and balancing that you lose track of fun because that IS what will make the lower levels AND the higher levels move on. what's going on here just isn't fun or rewarding.
New topic created for current scaling needs and concerns:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1247050/truescale-system
That way we (players and devs alike) only have to worry about HP, power and defense.