Wow, DO is going back on the trash heap. Since AC requires high gear, I guess Clerics are going to have to face the same "you must be at least 17k to ride" HAMSTER DPS has been dealing with for the last year.
On one hand, I still know how to play AC from the last time DO were garbage (even though I greatly prefer DO), but I'm nowhere near having the Radiants to not be laughed at (not to even mention lack of Power boon).
This makes me even more glad I don't bother with endgame anymore.
I have the gear to be a respectable ac. but acs draw a lot of HAMSTER and micromanaging from the aggro classes. it's really unfriendly to play as one imo. do this this and this NOW and if they don't hit top dps they message you a HAMSTER storm because it' ALL YOUR FAULT.. yeah.. that isn't why I play. they pretty much leave do's alone to do their thing.
For Divine Oracle, we decided to hit this spec the most because it was something that we buffed into the past that skyrocketed it into popularity. Unfortunately, it increased it so much so that it became valuable enough to warrant always having one. To address this, we have removed the team based damage buff from terrifying insight and made it personal. It will now grant a damage resistance debuff, on the other hand, and increase your own damage by 25%.
Finally, Avatar of the Divine has been revamped a bit to be more damage oriented and to allow for a heavy damage build. While we don’t think Clerics will be jumping into the ranks of high DPS, we think this will give them a very viable solo-gameplay option. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously? This will not only remove them from all group content, they will get kicked from the group simply because they have nothing to offer as a divine oracle. When it comes to party buffs.
Every dps class out there, can outperform the do/dc in every aspect, at MUCH lower item level as it is right now. And your nerfing them by the only actual buff they can provide, because you feel their meant for solo play?
So tell me something, since this class is meant for solo play now. Why are there any dungeons in the game.
How about 10 mans?
How about 25 mans?
What is the point of the class itself, once you remove it from any and all group content? Oh right. It has to play specifically now as a healer. And given the state of the game, healers really aren't needed, for about 90% of the actual game.
To top that off, your nerfing damned near every other class, except the top dps. Instead, their getting godmode. And you decide that dc's need nerfing. Dunno what you folks are thinking of actually accomplishing by doing this, but clearly.. you are going to be seeing alot of explosions on the forums when this hits live. Not just with the dc's, but with every other class out there that is being hit with nerfs that aren't necessary at all. Hope you enjoy it. I certainly would not want to be in YOUR shoes when this happens.
DO/DC was the way to go when you had a low gear score DC, so you can still make things happen while in the team even as a low gear score DC... Now with this change, no one is going to ever want a DO in the team at all and everything is going to go to "NEED AC/DC MUST BE 17k TO JOIN",
This basically means DO will be a solo focused path with no role in a party. AC is the DC party buff/support option.
That will effectively kill the 2 DC meta.
And yes, the 2 DC meta is a problem. It takes away party slots for other classes, and that DCs by themself seems to be relatively little played class means forming optimal groups is harder too. That CWs have a hard time finding endgame party slots can in part be attributed to DCs eating two slots in each group, for instance.
While this is bad news for the specialized DO build people(but they can rebuild as AC easily enough probably), I think it is a good move for the game overall.
Well, with these changes, I have to wonder what the purpose of the DO DC is now, other than as a DPS player. What role do the devs see a DO DC playing in groups, especially with that DC occupying the "healer" slot in the traditional 3-1-1 group composition?
This basically means DO will be a solo focused path with no role in a party. AC is the DC party buff/support option.
That will effectively kill the 2 DC meta.
And yes, the 2 DC meta is a problem. It takes away party slots for other classes, and that DCs by themself seems to be relatively little played class means forming optimal groups is harder too. That CWs have a hard time finding endgame party slots can in part be attributed to DCs eating two slots in each group, for instance.
While this is bad news for the specialized DO build people(but they can rebuild as AC easily enough probably), I think it is a good move for the game overall.
Lucky that Cryptic removed the disagree tally as one of our feedback options. Not that I don't disagree that the 2 DC meta wasn't a problem but this doesn't seem like the optimal solution.
This basically means DO will be a solo focused path with no role in a party. AC is the DC party buff/support option.
That will effectively kill the 2 DC meta.
And yes, the 2 DC meta is a problem. It takes away party slots for other classes, and that DCs by themself seems to be relatively little played class means forming optimal groups is harder too. That CWs have a hard time finding endgame party slots can in part be attributed to DCs eating two slots in each group, for instance.
While this is bad news for the specialized DO build people(but they can rebuild as AC easily enough probably), I think it is a good move for the game overall.
I don't agree. And I already have been seeing a move to more flexibility than the meta in group content towards dcs there is room for both. totally decimating a tree from group content because some classes are salty that they don't get more runs isn't fair or balanced. the balance should be bringing other classes UP to that level instead of killing off other peoples game play. Do's will be a smeller sewer dweller now. no one will want one near them. that's not cool. I spent many millions on my Do. now it's good for nothing and the stuff is bound. cw's are in a great place this next mod. so imo they have no room to come to the dc forum and spit on the people who have just had their paths crushed.
Do NOT change brand the sun locking you in divinity mode!!!!!!! Break the spirit's casting animation screws up ingame if you rapidly cast 4 of it. Just try to do it you will see what I mean. The only way to stop this is either brand the sun or pop a daily after spamming the button. I highly doubt there is a single DC out there that doesn't like the passive divinity gain. PLEASE do not change this or fix the break the spirit casting animation spam loop. Basically if you try to do 3 divinity BTS's and then immediately an empowered BTS the game doesn't register that its now on cooldown and will repeatedly let you do infinity BTS animations till it comes back off cooldown. It is only BTS that does this.
nerfed and hard, I am LOL'ing indeed. having a huge sigh of relief that I didnt waste resources on a second set of comp gear for my DO loadout as well, because I was actually starting to like playing as one. this really is completely unnacceptable for DO mains though; their spot is gone in end game without a doubt.
im actually the gwf carry
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Some of those changes are pretty much irrelevant - I mean, divinity at-wills? Nobody ever uses those, so why bother changing them?
The TI change is the big one. It makes DO DC completely irrelevant and unusable for group play. This is too much. This is going to be an absolute pain for low-geared DCs - they will simply not be wanted at all in groups - for a DC to get into a group he will have to have a power-sharing AC build, and that is hard when you are under 14K IL or so.
I have a suggestion, which will keep DO viable and at the same time solve the "2DC problem".
Make TI and AA mutually incompatible. Make TI not affect those affected by AA and vice versa.
This would ensure that groups would not want to bring 2 DCs but at the same came both DO and AC would remain viable, instead of forcing everyone just to go AC.
A side note to this is that if you really intend to force DCs to go AC only, then it is outright silly not to make the gear sets usable for ACs..... ACs cannot really use the new sets like the Barovian Lords or the new one from M15, except maybe a single piece.
Finally, Avatar of the Divine has been revamped a bit to be more damage oriented and to allow for a heavy damage build. While we don’t think Clerics will be jumping into the ranks of high DPS, we think this will give them a very viable solo-gameplay option.
Foresight: Base Damage Resistance increased to 4% (from 2%)
Terrifying Insight: Seeing the inevitable destruction of your foes, you deal 10/15/20/25% more damage. Damaging an enemy also lowers their damage resistance by 4/6/8/10% for 5 seconds
Prophecy of Doom (Empowered): Damage Resistance reduction lowered to 2.5% per Empowered orb (down from 5%)
Prophecy of Doom: Animation speed reduced to 1.4 seconds (down from 1.8 seconds)
1st of all: it isn't two DCs meta, it is 4 support meta.. If you really wanna play by your own rules nerf SWs, CWs, OPs, GFs and HRs (I know this feels tempting to you, but don't do it!). Most (near)endgame people rarely take 2 DCs, they take DC, Devo OP, gf, SW/CW/HR, and 1 hdps. Most of the people complaining about "2 DCs meta that doesn't allow me to get into party for dungeon" are usually the kind of people that aren't able to finish the dungeon in the first place.. The same people that always whine that there isn't enough buffs, everyone that outdpses them is either p2w or cheater while their companions are like this.
But I gotta congratulate you, you have proved (again) that you can destroy entire tree. If you already firmly decided to nerf DOs buffs&debuffs, you could at least buff it to make it viable as hdps, as from this DO changes, you'd get instantly kicked from any dungeon when you say that you're DO. Actually, you don't need to "buff it for solo-gameplay", as I've tested: 13k DC can solo every campaign, relatively fast. FF should stay as DAMAGE buff (you do know that some DCs still use both ff and bts, both fully empowered. And Prophecy of Doom changes are quite bad, you added another useless nerf to a perfectly fine encounter. A lot of DC player had spent a lot of money (some real money, some ingame money) to make their characters pretty good, and with this notes you have basically spitted in their face. Can you at least give us a lot of unbiniding tokens, to remove all the good/expensive stuff from my dc?!
I am completely disillusioned right now. I logged into the game and just stood in the campfire for little under an hour... What would be the point in farming CRL for seals? Why should I continue to upgrade my DO DC when I know what's coming. Obviously these are subject to change, but your trackrecord in that regard is very poor.
I play on Xbox btw, so I have a little more time than PC players to adjust. And I will wait and see the impact once it hit PC before my verdict. But if these changes goes through, it is the end of DO DC's. Instead of having 1 class with 2 build paths, we are back to only having 1 viable endgame build.
I suppose one could make the transition to the AC build, but I don't like that playstyle. On my DO DC I contribute with damage just under a templock. But on an AC DC I would be purely buffing. And while the enchantments might be easy to exchange into power and recovery ones, I still sit on artifacts, equipment and companion gear with critical strike and armorpenetration on. I would have to get new gear entirely. Not to mention the 7,3 million I had saved up for a month to buy a legendary t-rex, that has stats on it that I wouldn't need. Or my new Groot companion, along with my archons etc. that would need to be exchanged. All legendary dps companions that would no longer benefit me as an AC DC.
First we get the profession overhaul, which might be good, or might be bad. Again, given your trackrecord is most often the latter. Then you hit us with the salvage changes, which currently seem very much like a nerf. At least unless the numbers for RAD changes for the better as endgame chest rewards. Because it is very underwhelming in it's current form.
And now this...
If this hits PC in it's current state, then I don't see myself playing the game anymore. With Fallout, Battlefield and Red Dead Redemption on their way, and 2 of which will be open world, I will move on. And if I ever miss MMO's I will fetch my pc, But no more Neverwinter.
It is not just the above mentioned reasons. Every time, and I mean EVERY time, you introduce a new MOD with new content. You hit your community of players in the head with new game altering nerfs. There is always something. And you can try and disguise it as being buffs or changes so that new players will have an easier time, but we aren't stupid. If you were in any way shape or form just a little bit intelligent, you would bring up other buff classes on par with the DO and AC clerics. Rather than nerfing one build into the ground. I mean... is there anyone on your team with the IQ over a 10 year old... If you want to balance classes, yet have no clue how, then hire a cheap intern in form of a university student with specializations in complex analysis. Then you can happily sit back throwing donuts down your throat, while he does your work for you. Because it is abundantly clear that you have no clue.
You didn't only hit TI. You nerfed PoD and FF as well. Making it impossible to play a DO DC. We will bring nothing unique to the table in endgame raids. AC DC's will have AA, BtS and Exaltation. Who would choose a DO over an AC with these changes?
I agree with adinosii and thefiresidecat I've be playing dc since back when the only path that peeps wanted in group was ac for aa spam. So you the Dev's buffed do because the only path being played and forced to be played was AC and now you killing DO so again all dc's will be forced to go back to AC. No Thank you! can I also get a token to unbind all the items that I have bought/ worked for to put on a new toon?
Why not nerf the powershare of AA instead of TI since pally's can powershare and that would end the 2 dc meta and keep as you the Dev's said the popular do dc path?
4
blindfury11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 52Arc User
For Divine Oracle, we decided to hit this spec the most because it was something that we buffed into the past that skyrocketed it into popularity. Unfortunately, it increased it so much so that it became valuable enough to warrant always having one.
Seriously, in what world is this even true? Sure maybe if the DC is less geared they will be DO but almost every end game dungeon I run that only has 1 DC, they pretty much ALWAYS GO AC because of the precious AA...
I've been playing as a cleric for a while, it was my first choice and it's my main. When I make a party to run a dungeon, I don't go for 2 clerics. Who do you think does that? Mostly DPS classes forming parties choose 2 clerics, it's their choice. Then nothing stops other support classes from making parties with only one cleric, or even none, these parties will take them to the chest fast enough too if everybody's got what it takes. The issue here is not so much balance among classes, but freedom of choice and quality of gameplay. Maybe other classes haven't been playing to the fullest of their potential to make themselves noticed and invited for further runs, maybe people generally making parties need more in-your-face evidence that other classes can buff just as efficiently. Because no one likes a nerf, and the nerfs you're planning on are clearly aimed at influencing players' choices, practically dictating how they should play and who they should invite or not invite, not fixing any unbalance, they're gonna cause tensions. You tried that in the past and it didn't work, players still reckoned 2-DC parties were meta, so did that vex you? Did you get so frustrated that now you're gonna hit below the belt? I guess that's quicker than creating a new support class or making sure the existing ones are competitive enough. Guess who's coming to dinner. A DO, the new outcast of Neverwinter, doomed to wander in loneliness and anathema.
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
I do not understand your concept of attacking the target of 2 DC nerf to DO many people like to go to the dungeons with only DO as DC, if you really want to attack the target of 2 dc Improve the buff of the other classes so that if it is worth the sorry to take something else in DC as it happens with the DPS in the "Meta" many people leaving to go with GWF or HR because the damage of the TR was greater the same thing happened with the supports that I did not take 2 dc if there was another powerful buffer
they dont want to impose 1tank 1 healer 3 dps on private queue so do dc take the blow
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bluebubbl3sMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 121Arc User
I do not understand your concept of attacking the target of 2 DC nerf to DO many people like to go to the dungeons with only DO as DC, if you really want to attack the target of 2 dc Improve the buff of the other classes so that if it is worth the sorry to take something else in DC as it happens with the DPS in the "Meta" many people leaving to go with GWF or HR because the damage of the TR was greater the same thing happened with the supports that I did not take 2 dc if there was another powerful buffer
they dont want to impose 1tank 1 healer 3 dps on private queue so do dc take the blow
so they kill the do and the 2 dc meta dies... quickly replaced with the acdc/templock meta. either way, there is a freaking meta created by the "pugs" who read the stupid blogs/posts of the elite gamers and think that it applies to everything while knowing nothing. and then they all complain about it.
the worst thing the devs did was introduce random queues for rewards/ad generation where you cannot control/do no know who you are going on dungeons with. its a disaster from the outset and thats what has created the "controversy" about these "metas".
dcs are the best buffing/debuffing class... it makes sense that you want clerics in your party. but i dont understand why you nerf one and not the other???
The issue is not that the do is too good, the issue is that the buffs/debuffs in this game have gone to the extreme and now they cant balance anything, so the devs come up with these stupid ideas and kill a whole viable paragon path. the wrong kneejerk reaction to the complaints of those who cry the loudest.
on a side note, perhaps the devs should look to reward Guildies for running content together, instead of encouraging random pug queues. it would be a good way to encourage players to join viable, active, organised guilds instead of having thousands of tiny ranked guilds with three players in it. why dont you try to encourage community among guilds and alliances instead of among pugs - who then would complain about the meta of two clerics when they can get all the runs they want in a guild where things are shared around and you know who you are playing with, so higher chance of success.
VA is the creator and proud member of The Round Table Alliance
3
seridkalsenovMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 30Arc User
so let me get this straight. especially for who the heck came with this idea to nerf DO dc again. 1st. DO dc are one of the non gear dependent path and it easy to help party member get significant buff/debuff. even a 12k DO DC are allow to enter CoDG as long he/she know the mechanic. 2nd. U THINK THE 2DCs IS THE META NO!! is the 1 DPS meta aka 3 support 1 tank Meta. 3rd. because some T4 dungeon have mechanic that require super high dmg to prevent a wipe, dps need a lot of buff and debuff. 3 dps is not enough to beat archolith b4 all pillars are destroyed or beat orcus b4 the temp HP carrier dead. or the soul stack at ras nsi fight. 4th if this weird nerf come live = the game will be more toxic with 15-17k AC DC only accepted in CoDG,ToNG,CR. so much for a user friendly heh.
why not just add more slot for T4 dungeon and give a bonus for party that make the premade group as the rule said. for example ToNG 6 man run. 1 tank, 3 dps, 2 healer. party that use that will get 2x chance of better bos drop and UES. CR 7 man run. 1 tank 4 dps 2 healer. same as above but with bonus 10% dmg vs undead while in the dungeon.
stop nerfing stuff. this isn't what the player want especially DO player.
I am actually looking forward to running content as a single DC again even if it makes the run a bit slower, its more challanging and fun, its true the DO is dead but its not like making the transition to AC is impossible and you have enough time to plan ahead. I get most of the changes that are announced here the only thing that doesn't make sense to me is the upgrade to divinity at-will. Who is ever using them ? You heal/do damage/buff better with a divinity encounter than our divinity at wills. Even after you will "buff" those skills who's gonna want to spend their divinity without gaining empowerment stacks ? As long as you don't get empowerment stacks from using the skill in divinity it doesn't make real sense especially since the AP gain from it is so minor compared to what you get from any other skill (even after 50% buff to it). If you could get empowerment stack while draining the divinity with at will that might make the skill useful, until then I don't know who might use it and in which situation. Seems like it's really an irrelvant boost to those skills.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited September 2018
The biggest crime was that FF was nerfed instead of BtS. BtS did everything FF did, but better. Imo I would have removed the damage buff from emp bts, left the buff on ff and had emp bts reduce the damage of all enemies in an AoE. This way both powers have a distinct, unique flavour.
can I ask why you didn't nerf aa into the ground instead of TI? can we petition for the other tree to be nerfed into the ground instead of us? respectfully of course...
They nerfed AC few times already to make DOs viable. First they nerfed AA which used to work better and more consistent and the buff couldn't get stripped away(which was kind of a bug I guess), then they nerfed the base power AA gives from 50% to 33%, and the biggest nerf to AC was with the changes to Bonding Stones and Companions Gift since most of the power share came from the companion, the every 2 second refresh use to work to the benefit of the AC not to mention the drop from 300% share to 195% on Bonding. So you used to share 50% and get a total of 400% from it, and now you share 33% and you share 295% of it. At 60k power it a difference of 120k shared power to 59k power from AA (a bit less than half). AC was nerfed all over and DO was buffed few mods ago making TI a strong buff regardless of itemlevel.
The AC is still more of a complete end game buffer than DO even before the changes so nerf to AC to the ground would mean in general worse groups. If they want to make it so only 1 DC is needed in a run its good they choose the AC cause choosing the DO would've made the run slower and harder.
DO DC was a way for the low item level DC to get unto dungeons as secondary DC. TI, DG, and BtS were mostly gear independent and still provided acceptable party utility even if AC DC is missing. Now the only way for DC to get to dungeon is gear up for AC DC to 15k. This is huge investment.
And why to bother with it? Possibly devs will nerf AC DC next, because it became requirement and too much people are playing that path instead of DO DC?
> @strathkin said: > Terrifying Insight: Seeing the inevitable destruction of your foes, you deal 10/15/20/25% more damage. Damaging an enemy also lowers their damage resistance by 4/6/8/10% for 5 seconds > > > > This right here effectively removes the DO DC from the game. An AC using power buffing is going to give any party a far larger damage increase now than any DO will be able to even combining this with hallowed ground. > > > I respectfully disagree I think it leave's Devine in a FINE place and I have one of every class. I mean honestly mostly Cleric's regardless of Paragon Devine or Anointed both of use Light Gift's and both often mostly use Righteous as well or a Righteous Hybrid with 2-3 FEATs in another path. > > To be fair I think the CRYPTIC team did a GREAT job on this likely HARD call. I mean both Cleric's can still give their 10% base power share which PROCs instantly unlike a Paladin, whom you require to stay within range for 6s and loose it instantly, and then have to wait 6s again before you regain it. > > Still having said that - they took the 20% damage away from the Party with Terrifying Insight. Cause remember today it ONLY gives 8%, +4%, +4%, +4% or 20% in total, and instead increased it to 25% but only for the Cleric. So it's TRUE the party doesn't get the 20% damage boost as well, but they still do get something in a DEBUFF to enemies the Cleric damages, "Damaging an enemy also lowers their damage resistance by 4/6/8/10% for 5 seconds." > > So I think you missed Terrifying Insight now gives 25% damage boost to Cleric not 20%! > > So I think that's a FAIR compromise even if I may be slightly less popular for awhile for having said so. And I think most changes I've reviewed so FAR I've largely been quite supportive of. I do however THINK the changes ABOVE should at least have them reconsider 1 or 2 things for Cleric at the very least: > * DEBUFF out to 5%, 7.5%, 10%, 12.5% so it's perhaps a little more significant! > > * or Perhaps Extend Light Gifts from 2%, 4%, 6%, 8%, 10% out to 3%, 6%, 9%, 12%, 15%? > > > Still remember that despite the above changes a Cleric's base damage is also increasing by 5%! So I mean people let's TRY and at least be FAIR about this, and if we still think it's a problem maybe ask the DEBUFF or LIGHT GIFTS be extended a little bit more! Those might be two FAIR area's they may reconsider? > > I thought so far the one truly FAIR observation or comment was with respect to Guardian Fighters! Someone had commented why there were no boosts to their TANK builds, and I thought that was likely one area that perhaps did indeed get overlooked... > > @balanced#2849
Are you serious? Do you actually play endgame DO? You’re actually trying to say a DO with a 25% DPS boost and slight debuff is BETTER than the ENTIRE GROUP GETTING a dps boost? REALLY????
And what about POD and FF changes? These changes will kill the DO class as a viable endgame support and we will all see the new AC/temp meta. No way a non TI DO gets into a good CR group unless it’s out of charity.
I don't agree. And I already have been seeing a move to more flexibility than the meta in group content towards dcs there is room for both. totally decimating a tree from group content because some classes are salty that they don't get more runs isn't fair or balanced. the balance should be bringing other classes UP to that level instead of killing off other peoples game play. Do's will be a smeller sewer dweller now. no one will want one near them. that's not cool. I spent many millions on my Do. now it's good for nothing and the stuff is bound. cw's are in a great place this next mod. so imo they have no room to come to the dc forum and spit on the people who have just had their paths crushed.
I completely agree with you that the nerf to DO is in no way a good solution to anything and is going to completely bar DOs from endgame content which isn't fun for anyone. However, the CW is most definitely NOT in a good place come mod 15, the class is set up to receive a sweeping set of nerfs across the board, from their ability to DPS to their utility as buff/debuffers. Just wanted to straighten that out.
Hopefully the nerfs to CW won't go forward as currently outlined, and I really freaking hope that the nerf to Terrifying Insight doesn't go through to live.
Now the DO will be kicked from groups, forced to play AC again. I hated playing AC before and have no wish to return to it. This is a horrible decision
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
While this is bad news for the specialized DO build people(but they can rebuild as AC easily enough probably), I think it is a good move for the game overall.
"easily enough" ? No, that's not the case. DO builds are quite forgiving regarding gear, but AC builds need very specific (and expensive items).
This is not a big problem for "end-game" DCs. Most of us have a DO build and an AC build with separate gear, and I suspect the same is true for any 17K+ DC. The impact on players like me will be minimal (apart from reducing my enjoyment because I just enjoy playing as DO more than playing as AC).
This will, however, be a "big deal" for any low-geared DC. The thing is, because of the buff from TI does not depend on stats, DCs would typically go for DO/buff as their primary party build as soon as they hit 70. A DO DC was almost as effective at 12K as 18K. AC builds, on the other hand are much more gear demanding than DO builds - specifically ACs really need specific items, which are not optimal for DO DCs, so "rebuilding" for them will mean a massive gear-up.
Basically, the demand for DCs will drop significantly unless they are, say 16K+ with a Power-focused build - so, those low-geared players will just not be wanted.
In my opinion, they should have just changed things so that TI and AA would not work at the same time - that would solve the "2DC problem", whils still keeping both paragons viable for group play.
Theres no 2DC meta since WOL/templock changes The meta is 1DPS4SUPPORT, youre not gonna change this by killing dodc.
The problem here is that AC and DO requires different gear, companions, artifacts, ppl put a lot of money on archons, tiger, razor, enchantments, companions gear and these stuff are gonna be 100% useless.
Comments
Finally, Avatar of the Divine has been revamped a bit to be more damage oriented and to allow for a heavy damage build. While we don’t think Clerics will be jumping into the ranks of high DPS, we think this will give them a very viable solo-gameplay option.
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Seriously? This will not only remove them from all group content, they will get kicked from the group simply because they
have nothing to offer as a divine oracle. When it comes to party buffs.
Every dps class out there, can outperform the do/dc in every aspect, at MUCH lower item level as it is right now. And your nerfing them by the only actual buff they can provide, because you feel their meant for solo play?
So tell me something, since this class is meant for solo play now. Why are there any dungeons in the game.
How about 10 mans?
How about 25 mans?
What is the point of the class itself, once you remove it from any and all group content? Oh right. It has to play specifically now as a healer. And given the state of the game, healers really aren't needed, for about 90% of the actual game.
To top that off, your nerfing damned near every other class, except the top dps. Instead, their getting godmode. And you
decide that dc's need nerfing. Dunno what you folks are thinking of actually accomplishing by doing this, but clearly.. you
are going to be seeing alot of explosions on the forums when this hits live. Not just with the dc's, but with every other class out there that is being hit with nerfs that aren't necessary at all. Hope you enjoy it. I certainly would not want to be in YOUR shoes
when this happens.
Moderator edited out flaming.
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AC is the DC party buff/support option.
That will effectively kill the 2 DC meta.
And yes, the 2 DC meta is a problem. It takes away party slots for other classes, and that DCs by themself seems to be relatively little played class means forming optimal groups is harder too. That CWs have a hard time finding endgame party slots can in part be attributed to DCs eating two slots in each group, for instance.
While this is bad news for the specialized DO build people(but they can rebuild as AC easily enough probably), I think it is a good move for the game overall.
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
The TI change is the big one. It makes DO DC completely irrelevant and unusable for group play. This is too much. This is going to be an absolute pain for low-geared DCs - they will simply not be wanted at all in groups - for a DC to get into a group he will have to have a power-sharing AC build, and that is hard when you are under 14K IL or so.
I have a suggestion, which will keep DO viable and at the same time solve the "2DC problem".
Make TI and AA mutually incompatible. Make TI not affect those affected by AA and vice versa.
This would ensure that groups would not want to bring 2 DCs but at the same came both DO and AC would remain viable, instead of forcing everyone just to go AC.
A side note to this is that if you really intend to force DCs to go AC only, then it is outright silly not to make the gear sets usable for ACs..... ACs cannot really use the new sets like the Barovian Lords or the new one from M15, except maybe a single piece.
Most (near)endgame people rarely take 2 DCs, they take DC, Devo OP, gf, SW/CW/HR, and 1 hdps.
Most of the people complaining about "2 DCs meta that doesn't allow me to get into party for dungeon" are usually the kind of people that aren't able to finish the dungeon in the first place.. The same people that always whine that there isn't enough buffs, everyone that outdpses them is either p2w or cheater while their companions are like this.
But I gotta congratulate you, you have proved (again) that you can destroy entire tree.
If you already firmly decided to nerf DOs buffs&debuffs, you could at least buff it to make it viable as hdps, as from this DO changes, you'd get instantly kicked from any dungeon when you say that you're DO.
Actually, you don't need to "buff it for solo-gameplay", as I've tested: 13k DC can solo every campaign, relatively fast.
FF should stay as DAMAGE buff (you do know that some DCs still use both ff and bts, both fully empowered.
And Prophecy of Doom changes are quite bad, you added another useless nerf to a perfectly fine encounter.
A lot of DC player had spent a lot of money (some real money, some ingame money) to make their characters pretty good, and with this notes you have basically spitted in their face.
Can you at least give us a lot of unbiniding tokens, to remove all the good/expensive stuff from my dc?!
I play on Xbox btw, so I have a little more time than PC players to adjust. And I will wait and see the impact once it hit PC before my verdict. But if these changes goes through, it is the end of DO DC's. Instead of having 1 class with 2 build paths, we are back to only having 1 viable endgame build.
I suppose one could make the transition to the AC build, but I don't like that playstyle. On my DO DC I contribute with damage just under a templock. But on an AC DC I would be purely buffing. And while the enchantments might be easy to exchange into power and recovery ones, I still sit on artifacts, equipment and companion gear with critical strike and armorpenetration on. I would have to get new gear entirely. Not to mention the 7,3 million I had saved up for a month to buy a legendary t-rex, that has stats on it that I wouldn't need. Or my new Groot companion, along with my archons etc. that would need to be exchanged. All legendary dps companions that would no longer benefit me as an AC DC.
First we get the profession overhaul, which might be good, or might be bad. Again, given your trackrecord is most often the latter. Then you hit us with the salvage changes, which currently seem very much like a nerf. At least unless the numbers for RAD changes for the better as endgame chest rewards. Because it is very underwhelming in it's current form.
And now this...
If this hits PC in it's current state, then I don't see myself playing the game anymore. With Fallout, Battlefield and Red Dead Redemption on their way, and 2 of which will be open world, I will move on. And if I ever miss MMO's I will fetch my pc, But no more Neverwinter.
It is not just the above mentioned reasons. Every time, and I mean EVERY time, you introduce a new MOD with new content. You hit your community of players in the head with new game altering nerfs. There is always something. And you can try and disguise it as being buffs or changes so that new players will have an easier time, but we aren't stupid. If you were in any way shape or form just a little bit intelligent, you would bring up other buff classes on par with the DO and AC clerics. Rather than nerfing one build into the ground. I mean... is there anyone on your team with the IQ over a 10 year old... If you want to balance classes, yet have no clue how, then hire a cheap intern in form of a university student with specializations in complex analysis. Then you can happily sit back throwing donuts down your throat, while he does your work for you. Because it is abundantly clear that you have no clue.
You didn't only hit TI. You nerfed PoD and FF as well. Making it impossible to play a DO DC. We will bring nothing unique to the table in endgame raids. AC DC's will have AA, BtS and Exaltation. Who would choose a DO over an AC with these changes?
Guess who's coming to dinner. A DO, the new outcast of Neverwinter, doomed to wander in loneliness and anathema.
the worst thing the devs did was introduce random queues for rewards/ad generation where you cannot control/do no know who you are going on dungeons with. its a disaster from the outset and thats what has created the "controversy" about these "metas".
dcs are the best buffing/debuffing class... it makes sense that you want clerics in your party. but i dont understand why you nerf one and not the other???
The issue is not that the do is too good, the issue is that the buffs/debuffs in this game have gone to the extreme and now they cant balance anything, so the devs come up with these stupid ideas and kill a whole viable paragon path. the wrong kneejerk reaction to the complaints of those who cry the loudest.
on a side note, perhaps the devs should look to reward Guildies for running content together, instead of encouraging random pug queues. it would be a good way to encourage players to join viable, active, organised guilds instead of having thousands of tiny ranked guilds with three players in it. why dont you try to encourage community among guilds and alliances instead of among pugs - who then would complain about the meta of two clerics when they can get all the runs they want in a guild where things are shared around and you know who you are playing with, so higher chance of success.
Guild Leader - Valaurakari Ascension
VA is the creator and proud member of The Round Table Alliance
1st. DO dc are one of the non gear dependent path and it easy to help party member get significant buff/debuff. even a 12k DO DC are allow to enter CoDG as long he/she know the mechanic.
2nd. U THINK THE 2DCs IS THE META NO!! is the 1 DPS meta aka 3 support 1 tank Meta.
3rd. because some T4 dungeon have mechanic that require super high dmg to prevent a wipe, dps need a lot of buff and debuff. 3 dps is not enough to beat archolith b4 all pillars are destroyed or beat orcus b4 the temp HP carrier dead. or the soul stack at ras nsi fight.
4th if this weird nerf come live = the game will be more toxic with 15-17k AC DC only accepted in CoDG,ToNG,CR. so much for a user friendly heh.
why not just add more slot for T4 dungeon and give a bonus for party that make the premade group as the rule said.
for example ToNG 6 man run. 1 tank, 3 dps, 2 healer. party that use that will get 2x chance of better bos drop and UES.
CR 7 man run. 1 tank 4 dps 2 healer. same as above but with bonus 10% dmg vs undead while in the dungeon.
stop nerfing stuff. this isn't what the player want especially DO player.
I get most of the changes that are announced here the only thing that doesn't make sense to me is the upgrade to divinity at-will. Who is ever using them ? You heal/do damage/buff better with a divinity encounter than our divinity at wills. Even after you will "buff" those skills who's gonna want to spend their divinity without gaining empowerment stacks ? As long as you don't get empowerment stacks from using the skill in divinity it doesn't make real sense especially since the AP gain from it is so minor compared to what you get from any other skill (even after 50% buff to it). If you could get empowerment stack while draining the divinity with at will that might make the skill useful, until then I don't know who might use it and in which situation.
Seems like it's really an irrelvant boost to those skills.
First they nerfed AA which used to work better and more consistent and the buff couldn't get stripped away(which was kind of a bug I guess), then they nerfed the base power AA gives from 50% to 33%, and the biggest nerf to AC was with the changes to Bonding Stones and Companions Gift since most of the power share came from the companion, the every 2 second refresh use to work to the benefit of the AC not to mention the drop from 300% share to 195% on Bonding.
So you used to share 50% and get a total of 400% from it, and now you share 33% and you share 295% of it. At 60k power it a difference of 120k shared power to 59k power from AA (a bit less than half).
AC was nerfed all over and DO was buffed few mods ago making TI a strong buff regardless of itemlevel.
The AC is still more of a complete end game buffer than DO even before the changes so nerf to AC to the ground would mean in general worse groups. If they want to make it so only 1 DC is needed in a run its good they choose the AC cause choosing the DO would've made the run slower and harder.
And why to bother with it? Possibly devs will nerf AC DC next, because it became requirement and too much people are playing that path instead of DO DC?
> Terrifying Insight: Seeing the inevitable destruction of your foes, you deal 10/15/20/25% more damage. Damaging an enemy also lowers their damage resistance by 4/6/8/10% for 5 seconds
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> This right here effectively removes the DO DC from the game. An AC using power buffing is going to give any party a far larger damage increase now than any DO will be able to even combining this with hallowed ground.
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> I respectfully disagree I think it leave's Devine in a FINE place and I have one of every class. I mean honestly mostly Cleric's regardless of Paragon Devine or Anointed both of use Light Gift's and both often mostly use Righteous as well or a Righteous Hybrid with 2-3 FEATs in another path.
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> To be fair I think the CRYPTIC team did a GREAT job on this likely HARD call. I mean both Cleric's can still give their 10% base power share which PROCs instantly unlike a Paladin, whom you require to stay within range for 6s and loose it instantly, and then have to wait 6s again before you regain it.
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> Still having said that - they took the 20% damage away from the Party with Terrifying Insight. Cause remember today it ONLY gives 8%, +4%, +4%, +4% or 20% in total, and instead increased it to 25% but only for the Cleric. So it's TRUE the party doesn't get the 20% damage boost as well, but they still do get something in a DEBUFF to enemies the Cleric damages, "Damaging an enemy also lowers their damage resistance by 4/6/8/10% for 5 seconds."
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> So I think you missed Terrifying Insight now gives 25% damage boost to Cleric not 20%!
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> So I think that's a FAIR compromise even if I may be slightly less popular for awhile for having said so. And I think most changes I've reviewed so FAR I've largely been quite supportive of. I do however THINK the changes ABOVE should at least have them reconsider 1 or 2 things for Cleric at the very least:
> * DEBUFF out to 5%, 7.5%, 10%, 12.5% so it's perhaps a little more significant!
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> * or Perhaps Extend Light Gifts from 2%, 4%, 6%, 8%, 10% out to 3%, 6%, 9%, 12%, 15%?
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> Still remember that despite the above changes a Cleric's base damage is also increasing by 5%! So I mean people let's TRY and at least be FAIR about this, and if we still think it's a problem maybe ask the DEBUFF or LIGHT GIFTS be extended a little bit more! Those might be two FAIR area's they may reconsider?
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> I thought so far the one truly FAIR observation or comment was with respect to Guardian Fighters! Someone had commented why there were no boosts to their TANK builds, and I thought that was likely one area that perhaps did indeed get overlooked...
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> @balanced#2849
Are you serious? Do you actually play endgame DO? You’re actually trying to say a DO with a 25% DPS boost and slight debuff is BETTER than the ENTIRE GROUP GETTING a dps boost? REALLY????
And what about POD and FF changes? These changes will kill the DO class as a viable endgame support and we will all see the new AC/temp meta. No way a non TI DO gets into a good CR group unless it’s out of charity.
Hopefully the nerfs to CW won't go forward as currently outlined, and I really freaking hope that the nerf to Terrifying Insight doesn't go through to live.
This is not a big problem for "end-game" DCs. Most of us have a DO build and an AC build with separate gear, and I suspect the same is true for any 17K+ DC. The impact on players like me will be minimal (apart from reducing my enjoyment because I just enjoy playing as DO more than playing as AC).
This will, however, be a "big deal" for any low-geared DC. The thing is, because of the buff from TI does not depend on stats, DCs would typically go for DO/buff as their primary party build as soon as they hit 70. A DO DC was almost as effective at 12K as 18K. AC builds, on the other hand are much more gear demanding than DO builds - specifically ACs really need specific items, which are not optimal for DO DCs, so "rebuilding" for them will mean a massive gear-up.
Basically, the demand for DCs will drop significantly unless they are, say 16K+ with a Power-focused build - so, those low-geared players will just not be wanted.
In my opinion, they should have just changed things so that TI and AA would not work at the same time - that would solve the "2DC problem", whils still keeping both paragons viable for group play.
The meta is 1DPS4SUPPORT, youre not gonna change this by killing dodc.
The problem here is that AC and DO requires different gear, companions, artifacts, ppl put a lot of money on archons, tiger, razor, enchantments, companions gear and these stuff are gonna be 100% useless.