Living Fire: Now triggers when you drop below 35% hit points (instead of 30%) Living Fire: Now lasts for 5 seconds after it was triggered, even if you are healed above 35%
^ make it 75% and last 10 seconds, DC hardly ever goes below 70% hp they aren't tanks.
This is from a guy who has a 17k DC that has been geared out for AC power sharing:
If any type of DC should be nerfed, it should be the AC DC power-share build. It is just too strong. There is already a power-share tank in the game (OP with Aura Gifts), let that class be the one that needs to completely max out power for sharing it with the team. In fact, considering how Assassin's Covenant works, that would be a more logical choice for "the" power share character! But, both power-sharing OP and power-sharing AC DC together is just too much. If you just deleted the Battle Fervor feat, and cut Anointed Army's power share in half, that would be just fine in my view.
But if you're not going to do that, and if you are intent on nerfing DO, then nerf Terrifying Insight - fine, I can accept the argument that this class feature is too strong for the exactly zero amount of work that DC's have to do in order to utilize it - but adjust the DO DC powers accordingly so that they can provide a utility that is comparable to the AC DC's power sharing for higher end groups.
For example, what you might do is to nerf TI, but to adjust Brand of the Sun so that it grants Damage Reduction to all allies which strike the target. Or, buff the amount of Damage Resistance from the Benefit of Foresight feat to a really tantalizing level.
But if you nerf DO DC, while doing nothing about power-sharing AC DC, you really are just killing off one paragon path for group play. It will be useful for soloing content for sure, but not beyond that.
I liked the idea where you have to build for TI and it adjusts on how powerful you are for the team. something like that would be more fair. at the end of the day it really is a 4 support one dps (and sometimes that dps is also partial support) meta more than 2 dc meta. the last mod did change things. going in like a bull in a china shop is just going to mess things up without actually fixing the problem. the problem will just be one without the do. another class will just swap over to take our place in the meta. it's not going to be oh. lets just take whoever is there. gamers just don't operate like that. this is NOT balance. it's a swift kick in the nuts for those of us who decided to go down this path to get into games and ppl still have hard time finding dcs.
For those saying that DOs can just switch over to AC, it's not that easy. It would cost millions to buy and upgrade new comps, insignias, enchants, artifacts, etc. Here are two examples of BiS DCs. (There might be some things out of place, but they're generally pretty close to the norm.)
Moderator edited out banned links.
Artifacts: You'll require an entire new set of 4, clocking in right around 5m AD, including upgrade costs. (Assuming you don't already have the materials necessary.)
Enchantments: You'll need to replace almost every single enchantment, and due to trading losses you'll be down a minimum of a million during this exchange, probably quite a bit more.
Armor/Weapon Enchantments: Both need to be replaced, with a net loss of around 1m AD due to the high value of Frost.
Artifact Set: Both will need to be replaced and upgraded, costing about another million AD
Insignias: Due to the monstrosity that is Brutality insignias, this could cost several million AD. Also note that DO uses things other than brutal to max out tertiary stats.
Companions: One of the biggest losses, you'll need to buy and upgrade a whole set. While the initial price of the comps is low, you're looking at 8-9m for all 5.
So at a low estimate, it will cost a BiS DO 17-18 million AD to make the switch to AC. Considering the account cap on AD, with 100k/day being the rate Cryptic has set for income, it would take either half a year or $400 to swap. For the majority of players, this is going to be quite difficult.
Even at lower levels, you'll still see a cost of millions of AD due to the price of comps, artifacts, and enchantments. Now that DC will be limited to higher ILs to run, it will be nearly impossible for starting players/new players to play as a DC in group content.
I would recommend either a nerf to AC or giving out unbinding tokens. (Make BoE items BoA items) DO/DC is no longer able to run group content. However, most of the gear a DO uses can be used effectively by other classes. Although nerfing AC could put other classes up onto the pedestal of "meta," it could render endgame dungeons almost impossible.
Now it will be OP + AC all the time, sadly GF is going in the bin too, as a tank. Why not just remove the class all together, so people are not disappointed when they start a useless class?
DC DO players have the options to switch AC. DO isn't the whole class. You think you have it bad? *stares at tr thread* Plenty of classes have Paths that are meh. *looks at gwf*
REALLY?
I'll send YOU a bill for the whole new gear set, enchants and companions. you can foot the bill then.
In two words: - AC DC to support - DO DC for solo play / dps-like build, killing the only way to approach the DC support role without spending all your savings.
Instead, no news about important items such as heroic feats and the virtuous path. I don't know why the devs are wasting their time focusing on divinity generation and divitinity-at-wills....meh. I don't know anyone using punishing light or the other blu-at-will-power-I-don't-even-remember-the-name.
For me nothing changes a lot, but many low IL support DO DCs are died.
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
Astral Seal provides more than enough healing for most parties. Brand Of The Sun fills divinity constantly while you're using other powers. Lance Of Faith..... does damage. And not very much damage.
My healing mainly comes from Divine Glow and Repurpose Soul, rest come from healing boons like Engine Inspiration. Even only Repurpose Soul, due to my 100% crit chance I believe it will heal more than Astral Seal. The main reason I use LoF is with 1 BotS cast and 3x LoF I reach 3 pips of divinity faster than any combination.
And you're not DPS, and won't be DPS without HUGE further changes."
This is what I proposed in my post if devs want to remove DO from support pool, I am asking of HUGE further changes so DO deals comparable dps to secondary dps classes. I am glad you finally get my idea.
I see a nerf to FF, and a nerf to PoD, and a declaration that the goal is to make bringing more than one DC pointless, but nothing suggesting that PoD would become the go-to in your two-DC groups.
I mean, it might be the best power left to you if you can't use BTS, but if there's another DC using BTS, you should bring a different character.
It doesnt mean that since 2 DC run will be rare so PoD nerf is acceptable. Eventually in 10 player raid etc you will meet 2 DCs, or one support AC and one dps DO in future.
10% more resistance ignored = 10% more damage dealt, if you're not already carrying enough arpen to overcome 100% of the enemy's DR. And I'm assuming you aren't carrying that much arpen, because otherwise this is an even worse feature.
(Are you suggesting that "10% reduction to enemy damage resistance" is not the same as "10% more resistance ignored"? Because if so, I really did miss that and I'm interested to see how.)
DR debuff get diminishing returns and have nothing related to arp. These are two different thing. What I am mentionning is normal DODC without using PoD, with weapon enchantment, companion, Divine Glow and feats will bring around 60% DR debuff alone to party, thus subsequent 10% DR debuff more is only 5%+ more dps increase, not 10% flat dps increase as you mentioned NOR reducing the arp requirement by 10% on your post above. This is why I responded to you previously: "new proposed TI by dev with 25% damage buff + 10% debuff is not equal to 35% increase to personal dps, you cant calculate debuff as direct damage increase."
Hopefully as a 18k endgame DC you finally understand how your buff debuff works now.
My DC is 18k. My GWF and GF are 17.5, my CW is 16.5. And no, nobody needs a "healer" to heal, they need a character who takes the HEALER SLOT in the Random Party loadout. That means a buffer/debuffer who makes the DPS good, not a half-HAMSTER wannabe-DPS who doesn't buff or DPS.
First of all, are you 18k AC? If you are DO, I guess you will agree with me for most of the point. For normal random queue, My DPS is at top 2 mostly, as very rare good players will queue for expert/advance queue unless they want to carry the whole team. And as you said, "Random Queue". For RIQ mostly ppl will stomp over the content, and for advanced/expert, we go premade. Bear in mind after TI changes, for 1 DC party our team only get 20% buff less, you still have HG, DG, BTS etc buff debuff. The issue is you drop from T1 support to T2 support, so it opens up a slot for other support if your team already has a DC. If DO personal dps is buffed to compensate most of the party dps buff lost in the party for most random run, I think this is a good option.
Try: I'm saying they *aren't* a DPS alternative, and they're not going to be without massive additional changes (that aren't going to happen), and those changes (that won't happen) SHOULDN'T be made until they can actually take a DPS spot, and these current changes are a nerf that makes the build non-viable in every role.
These changes are bad, because they don't actually affect the 4 Support problem at all. All they do is make DO DCs not a viable part of it. All they do is leave the 4-support meta intact with only one spot for a DC.
Ya this is what devs demand, removing DO from support pool to open slot for other supports. In return, we DO should get huge buff in personal damage or else the whole patch will make DO in an awkward situation. At least buff DO to the level of secondary DPS with some scaling power and feats, for example scaling dps with crit etc.
I have to repeat my stance again: "I do agree to pull off the support ability of DO but with a trade of personal damage buff.... and i mean HUGE DAMAGE!!!!"
Since we cannot stop devs from nerfing DODC in group gameplay in the next patch, what we should do is just accept it and ask for other viable playstyle for DO. Hopefully now you understand me.
I think the problem is most of you DCs got devoted too much into the divine oracle. Instead of worshipping both dieties (the: divine oracle and the: anointed champion) Most of you chose to be loyal to the Divine oracle. Thus causing an imballance in the power and causing the Anointed Champion to do everything in his power to change that. Now the power balance has shifted. Causing the AC to be the most worshipped one.
Will these two ever reach the perfect harmony balance again?
But... if you want to be the best you can be as one or the other, its a completely different gear set up - enchants, mounts etc. If you are set up for AC then swap to a DO you arent as good as a DO who has set their gear up for it.
so its easy to say you can "worship" as both but its a jack of all trades, master of none scenario.
I dont understand why the devs seem to have a problem with both paragons of the dc being viable. I personally prefer to play AC, and am set up for that, but I totally feel for those who prefer the DO spec and what it might take for them to change all of their set ups.
I have a conspiracy theory: i think the devs have an ultimate agenda here, and thats to get rid of the end gamers (who likely spend less overall). Then newbies who are spending all the money get the encouragement to play till they make end game and are discouraged to leave. A nice cycle of making money for them.
I think the problem is most of you DCs got devoted too much into the divine oracle. Instead of worshipping both dieties (the: divine oracle and the: anointed champion) Most of you chose to be loyal to the Divine oracle. Thus causing an imballance in the power and causing the Anointed Champion to do everything in his power to change that. Now the power balance has shifted. Causing the AC to be the most worshipped one.
Will these two ever reach the perfect harmony balance again?
If you don't know anything about dc's and gear enchantements and so on. Don't show half or no knowledge to the community!
I repeat it again: If the devs don't want to have 2 dc's in 5 man dungeons - stop it. Change the code that you can't start dungeons if there are 2 dc's in the party. There is no need to kill on Paragon. The do dc's today have a much harder time then AC dc's because do can 't protect.
What role you devs want to have for the do dc?
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dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
For Divine Oracle, we decided to hit this spec the most because it was something that we buffed into the past that skyrocketed it into popularity. Unfortunately, it increased it so much so that it became valuable enough to warrant always having one. To address this, we have removed the team based damage buff from terrifying insight and made it personal. It will now grant a damage resistance debuff, on the other hand, and increase your own damage by 25%. ...
Powers
Forgemaster's Flame: Now deals a small amount of damage and then applies a Damage Over Time effect to the target
Forgemaster's Flame (Empowered): Now consumes all stacks of Empowered to increase the Damage dealt by Forgemaster's Flame by 20% per stack and grants Astral Forge to all nearby allies when cast. Astral Forge increases the Damage Resistance of allies by 5% per stack for 8 seconds.(Previously increased damage of Forgemaster's Flame by 10% per stack and Damage (instead of damage resistance) by 5%)
Forgemaster's Flame: Fixed an issue where the Slow would stack an unreasonable amount
Forgemaster's Flame: The slow no longer increases with each rank-up
Hastening Light: Base recharge time increased to 1.5 seconds (up from 1 second)
Hastening Light: Rank-up recharge time reduced to 0.5 seconds (down from 1 second)
Living Fire: Now triggers when you drop below 35% hit points (instead of 30%)
Living Fire: Now lasts for 5 seconds after it was triggered, even if you are healed above 35%
Piercing Light: Armor Penetration increased to 4/8/12/16/20% (up from 2/4/6/8/10%)
Avatar of the Divine (Reworked): The first power you use after entering combat grants you Avatar for 20 seconds, you also gain this effect every 45 seconds in combat. Avatar increases your damage dealt by 50%, Divinity Generation by 25%, and Cooldown Speed by 25%. Leaving combat cancels Avatar and resets its cooldown. Casting encounters will reduce the cooldown time of Avatar by 1.5 seconds for each stack of Empowered consumed
DO Changes:
Foresight: Base Damage Resistance increased to 4% (from 2%)
Terrifying Insight: Seeing the inevitable destruction of your foes, you deal 10/15/20/25% more damage. Damaging an enemy also lowers their damage resistance by 4/6/8/10% for 5 seconds
Prophecy of Doom (Empowered): Damage Resistance reduction lowered to 2.5% per Empowered orb (down from 5%)
Prophecy of Doom: Animation speed reduced to 1.4 seconds (down from 1.8 seconds)
Brand of the Sun: This power will no longer generate Divine Power while the player is in Divine Mode, this should fix an "issue" where players would sometimes not leave Divine Mode after casting all 3 divine encounter powers
@balanced#2849 , thank you for your hard work. Respectfully, this nerf to DO is not an improvement to the game nor promotion of the "rainbow party", if that is your goal. Terrifying insight DPS bonus was not the problem. The result will just be abandonment of the standard DO buff build (which many of us have invested years in creating). Not a catastrophe comment nor an ultimatum. Just register this as another loyal customer very disappointed in your decision. Please reconsider.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Firstly there is not a problem with the “2D meta”. This has been discussed at length multiple times in multiple formats. While people may verbalize their concerns as the “2DC meta”, what they are meaning to complain about is the 4 support 1 dps meta that leaves all other dps besides the 17k gwf/hr outside of dungeons. We have provided several good examples of how to improve this. Nerfing the DO DC will not resolve this vitriol, it will only move on to the next victim, most like the GF/OP meta or that no one wants a sw that isn’t spec’d to full buff or a cw that isn’t spec’d to full buff, or an HR that isn’t specd to full buff. This attack on DO only serves to alienate players.
Look at while TI got buffed in the first place. Was it because cryptic wanted to be nice? No. It was because cryptic HAMSTER up when they changed ITF potency from being based off of Damage Resistance. That is what moved the DC meta from being a Damage Resistance buffer to a power sharer and thus began the rise of the Anointed Champion outside of PVP. The very interesting co-relationship between GF and DC was destroyed. GFs and DO DCs were left on the bench as more preferred group compositions arose. Now we are going down the same broken path as Module 10. Where I will once again be unable to get into a party and yet I don’t have the advantage of 4 new zones worth of content to occupy me in solo play.
You need to rethink this DO nerf strategy. It’s obvious you are reacting to the vitriol on the forums that cannot be articulated intelligently by the personalities that choose this medium to express their discontent. Step back for a moment and see who spouts the vitriol. Is it long term players who know the game intimately. Do they have NW M9 playtest by their name? Are they the people who build class guides and publish out of game content? No they are not.
It’s also a quick shot at the power creep in game. But this does not address that. You keep throwing more power on gear. OPS/ACDC power shares keep cycling it through bonding and then TRs churn it through their mechanics and one rotation bosses. This isn’t about TI, this is about a failure to put diminishing returns in place that prevents run away power creep.
Choose some of the better options to resolve this pain point. A couple of my favorites are:
1) Random Queues already resolve this issue by forcing only one “healer” per party. Adjust the awards between Random Queues and private parties so that the effort of running outside of the meta is rewarded to a degree that justifies it
2) Diminishing Returns – put diminishing returns on buffs similar to what you’ve done with debuffs. Similarly increase diminishing returns on power. Diminishing Returns encourage team balancing.
3) Create roles you queue into for random queues that provide a blessing/curse relevant to that role. For example you could have the following 5 roles
dps - + damage – damage resistance controller - + control – life steal severity tank - + damage resistance – damage healer + heals - damage
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
Second point – if you’re going to remove DO damage buffs from the game and make them a dps tree then allow DOs to random queue as DPS. This is no different than the SW class that is a highly capable healer but queues into a dps slot. What is the point of limiting random queues to one “healer” when no one needs a healer anyhow? So if you’re going to do the tacky thing and remove DO from the healer role allow them to queue as a DPS. Otherwise we will not be able to get into random queues at all.
This is especially important for the content that effectly requires an ACs ability to provide cc immunity. DO will not be able to get into end game content like cradle/tong/cr without being able to provide the party dps contribution to offset the lack of cc immunity.
We will be voted out of random queues because our party contribution will be the lowest in the game. If we can queue as a dps at least we will be able to completed random queues which you have made very important since that appears to be the chief way to make AD left in the game.
I think there is some false belief that DCs don’t care which paragon they play. Your theory is that we will all simply play AC for party play. In that you would be wrong. My experience is that some are willing to play either paragon but almost all have strong preferences for the mechanics of one or the other and some (like myself) simply refuse to play the undesirable paragon. One of the reasons I chose DC as my main is because of the flexibility the class provides. It now appears that you want to ruin the DC like every other class by restricting it to one paragon/tree.
Do the right thing, open up queues so DOs fill a dps slot not a healer slot or don’t destroy DO being a viable buffer.
As a side note, DO does not need help with solo play, a well built DO crushes everything in solo play as is. Your destroying DO and providing nothing in return. A 5% damage bonus changes nothing in solo play
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
Are we going to see another change down the road to the tune of "We didn't intend for DO to be non-viable for endgame play, so..."?
The short answer is probably, because this is exactly what happened to DO in Module 10, which led to the rework that buffed TI to start with. He's reading that TI was buffed, he's not doing the research on the how/why DO got buffed. And you know what happened in module 10, people complained because they couldn’t get a DC for parties because there aren’t enough ACs to go around.
they were likely looking at Class Balance, they realized too many joke on the forums the last year or two, and far too many groups have 2 Cleric's: 1 Devine & 1 Anointed.
If they did that research they'd see far too many groups are OP + GF + DO + AC + GWF. I highly doubt they can understand why that composition was so popular. It’s far more likely they are reacting to comments not actual research. Irony being, I’m not clear what the problem is. Regardless of which classes are "Meta", there are precisely 5 customers in each 5 man run. What's important the customers or diversity. Perhaps we should focus more on what companion’s people are running or what color dye people use. This has nothing to do with making customers happy. This has everything to do with reducing buffs/debuffs as a result of more power creep to make room for more powerful gear to be introduced. The only real fix is diminishing returns, any alternative is just a bandaid and you can expect more slash and burn balancing next module.
The only thing that won't really need to go, is the weapon and icon. Because at least the artifact powers on them can be changed to some extent, and its not really a big loss there.
Except the BIS weapons for DPS and support are different. AC’s tend to run pioneer while dps runs primal. If you’re a rich DO you’d currently run the stronghold set if your focus is buff as a DO.
Particularly, something comparable *that doesn't stack with the AC*. Because you want people to bring a DC, not two DCs with stacking different buffs.
If you want to get away from the 4-support--DPS meta, one obvious solution to "all of these support buffs stack and that's why 4 support is best" is to MAKE THE BUFFS NOT ALL STACK. You know, like you did with potions and food and trinkets?
These things shouldn’t be fixed through non-stacking mechanics, the appropriate solution is diminishing returns. Regardless of the source, if you want to move outside of a 4 support 1 dps meta you need an across the board reduction in buffs/debuffs.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
I cannot stress hard enough for all DCs. If you are a DO DC and these changes happen. Do not rebuild to AC. In the absence of real solutions that encourage party balancing this is not the end of the nerfs but a stepping stone. More are coming as they make room for additional power creep or (conspiracy hat on) make room for another support class (conspiracy hat off). This means that any investment in AC/DC will be wasted.
Further to that point, are you better off spending millions upon millions building an AC/DC you don't enjoy or spending million upon millions creating another class you find more enjoyable than AC/DC. Don't waste your AD changing into a class you don't enjoy and are reasonable confident will be nerfed again in Mod 16.
As always I recommend that players focus on the parts of the game they enjoy.. Capitalize on the parts of the game you find fun, avoid the stuff that makes you hesitate to login. The game is meant to be enjoyable. If you are having problems finding enjoyment in the game, it may be time to take a break. This is the advice I always share with my guildies and friends.
That logic applies to professions, running explorer cases, farming heralds for RP, etc. Just because its the most profitable use of your time, doesn't mean its worth your time to run it.
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lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
Some of those changes are pretty much irrelevant - I mean, divinity at-wills? Nobody ever uses those, so why bother changing them?
The TI change is the big one. It makes DO DC completely irrelevant and unusable for group play. This is too much. This is going to be an absolute pain for low-geared DCs - they will simply not be wanted at all in groups - for a DC to get into a group he will have to have a power-sharing AC build, and that is hard when you are under 14K IL or so.
this
DODC dead in group play, no ifs and buts
balance - lol. nerf into the ground - yes
nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf, its what happens
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
As a side note, DO does not need help with solo play, a well built DO crushes everything in solo play as is. Your destroying DO and providing nothing in return. A 5% damage bonus changes nothing in solo play
I pretty much agree with everything you said. My main is an "almost-18K" DO DC. I like that class, I like the mechanisms - it is just great for solo play, and able to be useful in end-game content. Sure, like many other DCs, I have a secondary AC build, but I do not really like that.
Anyhow, if those changes go live, I have the choice of playing something I do not like (the AC in groups, as nobody will want a DO), or go looking for another game, with developers that actually seem to play the game and undertstand the real issues.
Post edited by adinosii on
Hoping for improvements...
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Making DO DCs totally non-viable in groups will solve the "2-DC" problem for sure. Now many dedicated DCs will either quit or spend some millions of AD on getting a usable AC loadout.
Of course, those changes will do nothing with the real problem which is that 5-man content seems taiilored for 1-dps, 4 buffers, which does not correspond to the class distribution at all.
I wonder what's next - make the DOs totally useless when the new buffer class is introduced in mod 16?
> @onlymat said: > I repeat it again: If the devs don't want to have 2 dc's in 5 man dungeons - stop it. > Change the code that you can't start dungeons if there are 2 dc's in the party. There is no need to kill on Paragon. > The do dc's today have a much harder time then AC dc's because do can 't protect. > > What role you devs want to have for the do dc?
I was thinking that to. But then how can we do fun runs in private Q ?
I'm thinkin some of you guys are missing the whole point here. Content and dungeons at end game weree too easy and fast with 2 DC meta so I'm glad and I think it's about time they end it. DO was buffed few mods ago in expense of the AC that was nerfed with AA being 50% effective of what it used to be, making DOs more viable buffer when TI was added as a group buff. The DO is still not as good as AC at true endgame, but its quite close there. I'm glad they chose not to nerf the AC further cause single DC runs without AC DC would've been tougher than single DO DC runs. I have both specs at end game and without a doubt the AC is much better solo buffer and I welcome everyone to try it themselves.
So even if they kept the DO buffs and just prevented people with going with a 2 DCs, most parties would still prefer an endgame AC over endgame DO (if they know what they're doing )
As DO you'll have to make some changes but who hasn't during this game. Every class has been nerfed/boosted at some point. Its not as big as you make of it though. All the enchants are tradable so you could trade already whatever you're using for Radiants and Black Ice on yourself and Silveries on companion. Also insignas you could trade or sell and get new relevant ones. Most of the main gear is pretty free to have, the rings you have to farm, weapons you don't need to switch. Main work is Belt and Neck and new artifacts if you have pure DPS ones. You could work with the tiger\Con Artist for now so no need to switch main companion. The other companions give minimal gain in power so that's not a huge priority down the list. 2 of those comps are new for the ACs as well, so now when you switch be glad that you didn't upgrade 300 power comps just to have comps with 700 power few mods later. (did I say every class gets adjustments ?) Those 300 power companions are useless for AC now as well. The game constantly changes and players have to make readjustment.
The main issue here is that DO didn't use to need to have real gear to be efficent so low level DOs had easy times getting parties. The way I see it, end game DOs shouldn't have any issues changing to AC. The problem is the low level DOs which will become low level ACs which will have hard time getting groups.
> I repeat it again: If the devs don't want to have 2 dc's in 5 man dungeons - stop it.
> Change the code that you can't start dungeons if there are 2 dc's in the party. There is no need to kill on Paragon.
> The do dc's today have a much harder time then AC dc's because do can 't protect.
>
> What role you devs want to have for the do dc?
I was thinking that to. But then how can we do fun runs in private Q ?
I'm thinkin some of you guys are missing the whole point here. Content and dungeons at end game weree too easy and fast with 2 DC meta so I'm glad and I think it's about time they end it. DO was buffed few mods ago in expense of the AC that was nerfed with AA being 50% effective of what it used to be, making DOs more viable buffer when TI was added as a group buff. The DO is still not as good as AC at true endgame, but its quite close there. I'm glad they chose not to nerf the AC further cause single DC runs without AC DC would've been tougher than single DO DC runs. I have both specs at end game and without a doubt the AC is much better solo buffer and I welcome everyone to try it themselves.
So even if they kept the DO buffs and just prevented people with going with a 2 DCs, most parties would still prefer an endgame AC over endgame DO (if they know what they're doing )
As DO you'll have to make some changes but who hasn't during this game. Every class has been nerfed/boosted at some point. Its not as big as you make of it though. All the enchants are tradable so you could trade already whatever you're using for Radiants and Black Ice on yourself and Silveries on companion. Also insignas you could trade or sell and get new relevant ones. Most of the main gear is pretty free to have, the rings you have to farm, weapons you don't need to switch. Main work is Belt and Neck and new artifacts if you have pure DPS ones. You could work with the tiger\Con Artist for now so no need to switch main companion. The other companions give minimal gain in power so that's not a huge priority down the list. 2 of those comps are new for the ACs as well, so now when you switch be glad that you didn't upgrade 300 power comps just to have comps with 700 power few mods later. (did I say every class gets adjustments ?) Those 300 power companions are useless for AC now as well. The game constantly changes and players have to make readjustment.
The main issue here is that DO didn't use to need to have real gear to be efficent so low level DOs had easy times getting parties. The way I see it, end game DOs shouldn't have any issues changing to AC. The problem is the low level DOs which will become low level ACs which will have hard time getting groups.
" DO you'll have to make some changes"
really? are you sure? Its not possible for me and the easy Solution is: don't allow 2 dc's in 5 man Dungeons - Problems solved and all the do dc's that have put alot of work over years in their do can play like they want and are still buffers!
I cannot stress hard enough for all DCs. If you are a DO DC and these changes happen. Do not rebuild to AC. In the absence of real solutions that encourage party balancing this is not the end of the nerfs but a stepping stone. More are coming as they make room for additional power creep or (conspiracy hat on) make room for another support class (conspiracy hat off). This means that any investment in AC/DC will be wasted.
Further to that point, are you better off spending millions upon millions building an AC/DC you don't enjoy or spending million upon millions creating another class you find more enjoyable than AC/DC. Don't waste your AD changing into a class you don't enjoy and are reasonable confident will be nerfed again in Mod 16.
As always I recommend that players focus on the parts of the game they enjoy.. Capitalize on the parts of the game you find fun, avoid the stuff that makes you hesitate to login. The game is meant to be enjoyable. If you are having problems finding enjoyment in the game, it may be time to take a break. This is the advice I always share with my guildies and friends.
That logic applies to professions, running explorer cases, farming heralds for RP, etc. Just because its the most profitable use of your time, doesn't mean its worth your time to run it.
you should pm the developers - maybe they listen to you. I had alot of times where noone runs with DO. Was hard to run FBI and so on. The best Solution would be - just don't allow 2 dc's in a five man Dungeon - easy to code and noone have to leave.
The thing is. If these Changes go live I refuse to respec to AC. All nerfs buffs and so on since the beginnig of the game I could live with. I also could live with a nerf of TI - i can't live with destroying my class. I'm 17.3k DO (not in a GH20 Guild but not too far away) and it's the first time I thinking of quitting this game forever. I also have a 16.5k cw thats fun to play - but if my DO is killed not only nerfed - i think I leave the game for good. I'm also a guild leader and a loyal customer over the years - but with this going live - I'm done.
For TI i can suggest a better Option too. The percentage of buffs is based on critical chance? So when you crit chance is 100% your buffs from TI are 20 %. This way a good DO dc with high lvl gear and high critical strike would be better than a lower one. Also the AC dc coul not switch to be as effective as DO.
Not sure how many pure DO's are out there but I'm one of them.
I'm sure they don't rethink and so I look for other games now. Playing 1 last CR to get my chest piece and thats it.
I cannot stress hard enough for all DCs. If you are a DO DC and these changes happen. Do not rebuild to AC. In the absence of real solutions that encourage party balancing this is not the end of the nerfs but a stepping stone. More are coming as they make room for additional power creep or (conspiracy hat on) make room for another support class (conspiracy hat off). This means that any investment in AC/DC will be wasted.
Further to that point, are you better off spending millions upon millions building an AC/DC you don't enjoy or spending million upon millions creating another class you find more enjoyable than AC/DC. Don't waste your AD changing into a class you don't enjoy and are reasonable confident will be nerfed again in Mod 16.
As always I recommend that players focus on the parts of the game they enjoy.. Capitalize on the parts of the game you find fun, avoid the stuff that makes you hesitate to login. The game is meant to be enjoyable. If you are having problems finding enjoyment in the game, it may be time to take a break. This is the advice I always share with my guildies and friends.
That logic applies to professions, running explorer cases, farming heralds for RP, etc. Just because its the most profitable use of your time, doesn't mean its worth your time to run it.
you should pm the developers - maybe they listen to you. I had alot of times where noone runs with DO. Was hard to run FBI and so on. The best Solution would be - just don't allow 2 dc's in a five man Dungeon - easy to code and noone have to leave.
The thing is. If these Changes go live I refuse to respec to AC. All nerfs buffs and so on since the beginnig of the game I could live with. I also could live with a nerf of TI - i can't live with destroying my class. I'm 17.3k DO (not in a GH20 Guild but not too far away) and it's the first time I thinking of quitting this game forever. I also have a 16.5k cw thats fun to play - but if my DO is killed not only nerfed - i think I leave the game for good. I'm also a guild leader and a loyal customer over the years - but with this going live - I'm done.
For TI i can suggest a better Option too. The percentage of buffs is based on critical chance? So when you crit chance is 100% your buffs from TI are 20 %. This way a good DO dc with high lvl gear and high critical strike would be better than a lower one. Also the AC dc coul not switch to be as effective as DO.
Not sure how many pure DO's are out there but I'm one of them.
I'm sure they don't rethink and so I look for other games now. Playing 1 last CR to get my chest piece and thats it.
I'm almost a pure do. I do have a ac but it's only dragged out for rescue situations. ie for a party stuck at a last boss. or for something like codg where I just want a lot of runs. I honestly don't enjoy being ac. and while my ac is respectably built, it's not ideally built. it still has a some DO things attached. companions are all for the do build for instance. I think that's fine for how I use my ac. but if the do becomes obsolete people will expect to see different things. lol. one of the things I really like about it is how similar it is to the hr. it's easy for me to go back and forth. the rotations for ac are a different pace though. it looks like the hr build is going to remain stuffed up for trapper too though. the Careful attack is unmentioned. so that isn't there to go back to either and again I don't really enjoy combat.. never have.
this is all just so disheartening. I'm just shy of 18k on my DO. that was my ongoing drive in the game was to break 18k again. now.. it's really pointless. I don't have anything to work for anymore. and yeah, you could go start from fresh on any class.. but my luck has been everything I like gets nerfbatted to the point it's unplayable. my next choice would have been tr... Maybe cw will be viable.. but will it still be viable in mod 16.. just can't trust the devs here to have your back in your investment in game.
it would be nice to have unbind to account tokens when they do things like this so it didn't feel so overwhelmingly harsh.
I cannot stress hard enough for all DCs. If you are a DO DC and these changes happen. Do not rebuild to AC. In the absence of real solutions that encourage party balancing this is not the end of the nerfs but a stepping stone. More are coming as they make room for additional power creep or (conspiracy hat on) make room for another support class (conspiracy hat off). This means that any investment in AC/DC will be wasted.
Further to that point, are you better off spending millions upon millions building an AC/DC you don't enjoy or spending million upon millions creating another class you find more enjoyable than AC/DC. Don't waste your AD changing into a class you don't enjoy and are reasonable confident will be nerfed again in Mod 16.
As always I recommend that players focus on the parts of the game they enjoy.. Capitalize on the parts of the game you find fun, avoid the stuff that makes you hesitate to login. The game is meant to be enjoyable. If you are having problems finding enjoyment in the game, it may be time to take a break. This is the advice I always share with my guildies and friends.
That logic applies to professions, running explorer cases, farming heralds for RP, etc. Just because its the most profitable use of your time, doesn't mean its worth your time to run it.
you should pm the developers - maybe they listen to you. I had alot of times where noone runs with DO. Was hard to run FBI and so on. The best Solution would be - just don't allow 2 dc's in a five man Dungeon - easy to code and noone have to leave.
The thing is. If these Changes go live I refuse to respec to AC. All nerfs buffs and so on since the beginnig of the game I could live with. I also could live with a nerf of TI - i can't live with destroying my class. I'm 17.3k DO (not in a GH20 Guild but not too far away) and it's the first time I thinking of quitting this game forever. I also have a 16.5k cw thats fun to play - but if my DO is killed not only nerfed - i think I leave the game for good. I'm also a guild leader and a loyal customer over the years - but with this going live - I'm done.
For TI i can suggest a better Option too. The percentage of buffs is based on critical chance? So when you crit chance is 100% your buffs from TI are 20 %. This way a good DO dc with high lvl gear and high critical strike would be better than a lower one. Also the AC dc coul not switch to be as effective as DO.
Not sure how many pure DO's are out there but I'm one of them.
I'm sure they don't rethink and so I look for other games now. Playing 1 last CR to get my chest piece and thats it.
I'm almost a pure do. I do have a ac but it's only dragged out for rescue situations. ie for a party stuck at a last boss. or for something like codg where I just want a lot of runs. I honestly don't enjoy being ac. and while my ac is respectably built, it's not ideally built. it still has a some DO things attached. companions are all for the do build for instance. I think that's fine for how I use my ac. but if the do becomes obsolete people will expect to see different things. lol. one of the things I really like about it is how similar it is to the hr. it's easy for me to go back and forth. the rotations for ac are a different pace though. it looks like the hr build is going to remain stuffed up for trapper too though. the Careful attack is unmentioned. so that isn't there to go back to either and again I don't really enjoy combat.. never have.
this is all just so disheartening. I'm just shy of 18k on my DO. that was my ongoing drive in the game was to break 18k again. now.. it's really pointless. I don't have anything to work for anymore. and yeah, you could go start from fresh on any class.. but my luck has been everything I like gets nerfbatted to the point it's unplayable. my next choice would have been tr... Maybe cw will be viable.. but will it still be viable in mod 16.. just can't trust the devs here to have your back in your investment in game.
it would be nice to have unbind to account tokens when they do things like this so it didn't feel so overwhelmingly harsh.
do should stay check here an write you comment what you think:
Firstly there is not a problem with the “2D meta”. This has been discussed at length multiple times in multiple formats. While people may verbalize their concerns as the “2DC meta”, what they are meaning to complain about is the 4 support 1 dps meta that leaves all other dps besides the 17k gwf/hr outside of dungeons. We have provided several good examples of how to improve this. Nerfing the DO DC will not resolve this vitriol, it will only move on to the next victim, most like the GF/OP meta or that no one wants a sw that isn’t spec’d to full buff or a cw that isn’t spec’d to full buff, or an HR that isn’t specd to full buff. This attack on DO only serves to alienate players.
^^This.
I'm an AC DC as main build and DO for solo play. I already play as the devs want. I don't need the proposed changes. Selfishly, the changes don't affect me, but they are so pointless that they are by right in the "epic fail" realm. IMO this is not even a nerf. A nerf is a tone down: this is a nuke, the destruction/ big resizing of the whole DO paragon path. It's like wanting a man to lose weight and someone cuts his arm to say "mission achieved".
Post edited by rapo973 on
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
Im going to up this^ 18,3 ac here. Always been ac with do loadout full debuff no dps for the Situation its needed. I prefere ac questing dunno. Do doesnt apeal to me.
In that regard for my fellow do players, please make do que as a dps and revise the debuff Potential. To put them in the place were sw cw are. A vailid dps Support
Astral Seal provides more than enough healing for most parties. Brand Of The Sun fills divinity constantly while you're using other powers. Lance Of Faith..... does damage. And not very much damage.
My healing mainly comes from Divine Glow and Repurpose Soul, rest come from healing boons like Engine Inspiration. Even only Repurpose Soul, due to my 100% crit chance I believe it will heal more than Astral Seal. The main reason I use LoF is with 1 BotS cast and 3x LoF I reach 3 pips of divinity faster than any combination.
I use those too, but ACT tells me consistently that Astral Seal does more healing than anything else I do, and I like being able to have a nice big mark of "if you want a heal, hit THAT GUY" for people who somehow aren't keeping themselves at 100% with lifesteal.
And you're not DPS, and won't be DPS without HUGE further changes."
This is what I proposed in my post if devs want to remove DO from support pool, I am asking of HUGE further changes so DO deals comparable dps to secondary dps classes. I am glad you finally get my idea.
Yeah, I misunderstood you to be saying that DOs were viable DPS and should be made more viable, rather than saying they're not currently viable DPS but you want them to be made viable.
And I disagree, I don't think they should be made into DPS, but now I get what you said a little better.
I see a nerf to FF, and a nerf to PoD, and a declaration that the goal is to make bringing more than one DC pointless, but nothing suggesting that PoD would become the go-to in your two-DC groups.
I mean, it might be the best power left to you if you can't use BTS, but if there's another DC using BTS, you should bring a different character.
It doesnt mean that since 2 DC run will be rare so PoD nerf is acceptable. Eventually in 10 player raid etc you will meet 2 DCs, or one support AC and one dps DO in future.
Sure. And when you do, the DO uses Empowered BTS and the AC uses Empowered Exaltation.
My DC is 18k. My GWF and GF are 17.5, my CW is 16.5. And no, nobody needs a "healer" to heal, they need a character who takes the HEALER SLOT in the Random Party loadout. That means a buffer/debuffer who makes the DPS good, not a half-HAMSTER wannabe-DPS who doesn't buff or DPS.
First of all, are you 18k AC? If you are DO, I guess you will agree with me for most of the point. For normal random queue, My DPS is at top 2 mostly, as very rare good players will queue for expert/advance queue unless they want to carry the whole team. And as you said, "Random Queue". For RIQ mostly ppl will stomp over the content, and for advanced/expert, we go premade. Bear in mind after TI changes, for 1 DC party our team only get 20% buff less, you still have HG, DG, BTS etc buff debuff. The issue is you drop from T1 support to T2 support, so it opens up a slot for other support if your team already has a DC. If DO personal dps is buffed to compensate most of the party dps buff lost in the party for most random run, I think this is a good option.
I spend most of my time in DO because I prefer the play experience, but I have AC loadouts for when that's needed. It means my enchants are a bit of a mixed bag: I'm not quite BIS in either (closer to BIS DO), but honestly I don't need to be for any current content.
And yeah, I'm usually top DPS or top 2 DPS in a pug, but that's pure gear score: there just aren't a lot of 16k+ people who know their stuff pugging, and when it comes to power, quantity is a lot like quality. If I get into a group with 3 *actual* DPS classes with ~16k scores I'll expect to come fourth, third in a pug because on average one of them won't know how to play.
(And I regularly pug RAQ with my DC or GF late at night when most of my guild is asleep, if I haven't done it yet and need the AD. But yeah, that does mean I'm carrying the team some times. Pugging REQ just seems like a bad idea in general.)
Since we cannot stop devs from nerfing DODC in group gameplay in the next patch, what we should do is just accept it and ask for other viable playstyle for DO. Hopefully now you understand me.
Except, this *is* a feedback thread, about Preview stuff. We *can* convince them not to nerf the DO build quite as hard as this patch set would. It's happened before - remember when Bonding runestones were going to have a 50% uptime?
This definitely affects the DODCs that run with the 2xDC crowd. For solo queuers, it's still disappointing, but kind of meh to me. The only 2xDC runs I've been in are CoDG pugs that happen to draw two DCs. The single DODC runs will just take a bit longer. The extra personal damage buff is nice in RIQ where I often find myself as the top DPS.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
disallowing 2DCs in party is not an option. It creates barriers to socialization. I already have a guildie I routinely can't run random queues with because we are both DCs. I've accepted this in random queues (begrudgingly) but to remove the ability to interact all together is a terrible idea and defeats the purpose of an MMO. The correct solution is to adjust rewards for random queues vs premades. Heck, nerf premade rewards into the ground but don't remove the potential for social play.
If you force people to run rainbow parties then they would have no reason to not run random queues other than to pick their dungeon. And maybe that's what they are really targeting. They see low participation in REQ. People will queue it now but just abandon if they get anything besides TONG because Cradle requires to much mechanic knowledge to be successful (and one person can destroy the run if they refuse to drag the cube to the right corners (I know its happened to me when I dared a REQ cradle) and CR is simply to hard with a rainbow party, especially when the second sister bugs.
Do the right thing, adjust rewards between premade and random queues to incentivize people to run your format without killing the freedom of choice.
Also btw, i'm doubtful a dps DC will ever be viable in dungeon because our dps is reliant on DOTs (which are painfully slow), timing on our own stacked buff/debuffs, and targeting with Daunting Light which is near impossible in 5 mans because mob direction is not terribly predictable and the spell is slow and doesn't self target. You need predictable mob behavior and proper timing to hit with it. Makes it totally doable in solo play where you have all the threat or on dummies which are stationary.
Comments
Living Fire: Now lasts for 5 seconds after it was triggered, even if you are healed above 35%
^ make it 75% and last 10 seconds, DC hardly ever goes below 70% hp they aren't tanks.
Moderator edited out banned links.
Artifacts: You'll require an entire new set of 4, clocking in right around 5m AD, including upgrade costs. (Assuming you don't already have the materials necessary.)
Enchantments: You'll need to replace almost every single enchantment, and due to trading losses you'll be down a minimum of a million during this exchange, probably quite a bit more.
Armor/Weapon Enchantments: Both need to be replaced, with a net loss of around 1m AD due to the high value of Frost.
Artifact Set: Both will need to be replaced and upgraded, costing about another million AD
Insignias: Due to the monstrosity that is Brutality insignias, this could cost several million AD. Also note that DO uses things other than brutal to max out tertiary stats.
Companions: One of the biggest losses, you'll need to buy and upgrade a whole set. While the initial price of the comps is low, you're looking at 8-9m for all 5.
So at a low estimate, it will cost a BiS DO 17-18 million AD to make the switch to AC. Considering the account cap on AD, with 100k/day being the rate Cryptic has set for income, it would take either half a year or $400 to swap. For the majority of players, this is going to be quite difficult.
Even at lower levels, you'll still see a cost of millions of AD due to the price of comps, artifacts, and enchantments. Now that DC will be limited to higher ILs to run, it will be nearly impossible for starting players/new players to play as a DC in group content.
I would recommend either a nerf to AC or giving out unbinding tokens. (Make BoE items BoA items) DO/DC is no longer able to run group content. However, most of the gear a DO uses can be used effectively by other classes. Although nerfing AC could put other classes up onto the pedestal of "meta," it could render endgame dungeons almost impossible.
I'll send YOU a bill for the whole new gear set, enchants and companions. you can foot the bill then.
- AC DC to support
- DO DC for solo play / dps-like build, killing the only way to approach the DC support role without spending all your savings.
Instead, no news about important items such as heroic feats and the virtuous path. I don't know why the devs are wasting their time focusing on divinity generation and divitinity-at-wills....meh. I don't know anyone using punishing light or the other blu-at-will-power-I-don't-even-remember-the-name.
For me nothing changes a lot, but many low IL support DO DCs are died.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
DR debuff get diminishing returns and have nothing related to arp. These are two different thing. What I am mentionning is normal DODC without using PoD, with weapon enchantment, companion, Divine Glow and feats will bring around 60% DR debuff alone to party, thus subsequent 10% DR debuff more is only 5%+ more dps increase, not 10% flat dps increase as you mentioned NOR reducing the arp requirement by 10% on your post above. This is why I responded to you previously: "new proposed TI by dev with 25% damage buff + 10% debuff is not equal to 35% increase to personal dps, you cant calculate debuff as direct damage increase."
Hopefully as a 18k endgame DC you finally understand how your buff debuff works now. First of all, are you 18k AC? If you are DO, I guess you will agree with me for most of the point. For normal random queue, My DPS is at top 2 mostly, as very rare good players will queue for expert/advance queue unless they want to carry the whole team. And as you said, "Random Queue". For RIQ mostly ppl will stomp over the content, and for advanced/expert, we go premade. Bear in mind after TI changes, for 1 DC party our team only get 20% buff less, you still have HG, DG, BTS etc buff debuff. The issue is you drop from T1 support to T2 support, so it opens up a slot for other support if your team already has a DC. If DO personal dps is buffed to compensate most of the party dps buff lost in the party for most random run, I think this is a good option.
Ya this is what devs demand, removing DO from support pool to open slot for other supports. In return, we DO should get huge buff in personal damage or else the whole patch will make DO in an awkward situation. At least buff DO to the level of secondary DPS with some scaling power and feats, for example scaling dps with crit etc.
I have to repeat my stance again:
"I do agree to pull off the support ability of DO but with a trade of personal damage buff.... and i mean HUGE DAMAGE!!!!"
Since we cannot stop devs from nerfing DODC in group gameplay in the next patch, what we should do is just accept it and ask for other viable playstyle for DO. Hopefully now you understand me.
so its easy to say you can "worship" as both but its a jack of all trades, master of none scenario.
I dont understand why the devs seem to have a problem with both paragons of the dc being viable. I personally prefer to play AC, and am set up for that, but I totally feel for those who prefer the DO spec and what it might take for them to change all of their set ups.
I have a conspiracy theory: i think the devs have an ultimate agenda here, and thats to get rid of the end gamers (who likely spend less overall). Then newbies who are spending all the money get the encouragement to play till they make end game and are discouraged to leave. A nice cycle of making money for them.
Guild Leader - Valaurakari Ascension
VA is the creator and proud member of The Round Table Alliance
Don't show half or no knowledge to the community!
Change the code that you can't start dungeons if there are 2 dc's in the party. There is no need to kill on Paragon.
The do dc's today have a much harder time then AC dc's because do can 't protect.
What role you devs want to have for the do dc?
Respectfully, this nerf to DO is not an improvement to the game nor promotion of the "rainbow party", if that is your goal.
Terrifying insight DPS bonus was not the problem.
The result will just be abandonment of the standard DO buff build (which many of us have invested years in creating).
Not a catastrophe comment nor an ultimatum.
Just register this as another loyal customer very disappointed in your decision.
Please reconsider.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Firstly there is not a problem with the “2D meta”. This has been discussed at length multiple times in multiple formats. While people may verbalize their concerns as the “2DC meta”, what they are meaning to complain about is the 4 support 1 dps meta that leaves all other dps besides the 17k gwf/hr outside of dungeons. We have provided several good examples of how to improve this. Nerfing the DO DC will not resolve this vitriol, it will only move on to the next victim, most like the GF/OP meta or that no one wants a sw that isn’t spec’d to full buff or a cw that isn’t spec’d to full buff, or an HR that isn’t specd to full buff. This attack on DO only serves to alienate players.
Look at while TI got buffed in the first place. Was it because cryptic wanted to be nice? No. It was because cryptic HAMSTER up when they changed ITF potency from being based off of Damage Resistance. That is what moved the DC meta from being a Damage Resistance buffer to a power sharer and thus began the rise of the Anointed Champion outside of PVP. The very interesting co-relationship between GF and DC was destroyed. GFs and DO DCs were left on the bench as more preferred group compositions arose. Now we are going down the same broken path as Module 10. Where I will once again be unable to get into a party and yet I don’t have the advantage of 4 new zones worth of content to occupy me in solo play.
You need to rethink this DO nerf strategy. It’s obvious you are reacting to the vitriol on the forums that cannot be articulated intelligently by the personalities that choose this medium to express their discontent. Step back for a moment and see who spouts the vitriol. Is it long term players who know the game intimately. Do they have NW M9 playtest by their name? Are they the people who build class guides and publish out of game content? No they are not.
It’s also a quick shot at the power creep in game. But this does not address that. You keep throwing more power on gear. OPS/ACDC power shares keep cycling it through bonding and then TRs churn it through their mechanics and one rotation bosses. This isn’t about TI, this is about a failure to put diminishing returns in place that prevents run away power creep.
Choose some of the better options to resolve this pain point. A couple of my favorites are:
1) Random Queues already resolve this issue by forcing only one “healer” per party. Adjust the awards between Random Queues and private parties so that the effort of running outside of the meta is rewarded to a degree that justifies it
2) Diminishing Returns – put diminishing returns on buffs similar to what you’ve done with debuffs. Similarly increase diminishing returns on power. Diminishing Returns encourage team balancing.
3) Create roles you queue into for random queues that provide a blessing/curse relevant to that role. For example you could have the following 5 roles
dps - + damage – damage resistance
controller - + control – life steal severity
tank - + damage resistance – damage
healer + heals - damage
Second point – if you’re going to remove DO damage buffs from the game and make them a dps tree then allow DOs to random queue as DPS. This is no different than the SW class that is a highly capable healer but queues into a dps slot. What is the point of limiting random queues to one “healer” when no one needs a healer anyhow? So if you’re going to do the tacky thing and remove DO from the healer role allow them to queue as a DPS. Otherwise we will not be able to get into random queues at all.
This is especially important for the content that effectly requires an ACs ability to provide cc immunity. DO will not be able to get into end game content like cradle/tong/cr without being able to provide the party dps contribution to offset the lack of cc immunity.
We will be voted out of random queues because our party contribution will be the lowest in the game. If we can queue as a dps at least we will be able to completed random queues which you have made very important since that appears to be the chief way to make AD left in the game.
I think there is some false belief that DCs don’t care which paragon they play. Your theory is that we will all simply play AC for party play. In that you would be wrong. My experience is that some are willing to play either paragon but almost all have strong preferences for the mechanics of one or the other and some (like myself) simply refuse to play the undesirable paragon. One of the reasons I chose DC as my main is because of the flexibility the class provides. It now appears that you want to ruin the DC like every other class by restricting it to one paragon/tree.
Do the right thing, open up queues so DOs fill a dps slot not a healer slot or don’t destroy DO being a viable buffer.
As a side note, DO does not need help with solo play, a well built DO crushes everything in solo play as is. Your destroying DO and providing nothing in return. A 5% damage bonus changes nothing in solo play
Further to that point, are you better off spending millions upon millions building an AC/DC you don't enjoy or spending million upon millions creating another class you find more enjoyable than AC/DC. Don't waste your AD changing into a class you don't enjoy and are reasonable confident will be nerfed again in Mod 16.
As always I recommend that players focus on the parts of the game they enjoy.. Capitalize on the parts of the game you find fun, avoid the stuff that makes you hesitate to login. The game is meant to be enjoyable. If you are having problems finding enjoyment in the game, it may be time to take a break. This is the advice I always share with my guildies and friends.
That logic applies to professions, running explorer cases, farming heralds for RP, etc. Just because its the most profitable use of your time, doesn't mean its worth your time to run it.
DODC dead in group play, no ifs and buts
balance - lol. nerf into the ground - yes
nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf, its what happens
Anyhow, if those changes go live, I have the choice of playing something I do not like (the AC in groups, as nobody will want a DO), or go looking for another game, with developers that actually seem to play the game and undertstand the real issues.
Of course, those changes will do nothing with the real problem which is that 5-man content seems taiilored for 1-dps, 4 buffers, which does not correspond to the class distribution at all.
I wonder what's next - make the DOs totally useless when the new buffer class is introduced in mod 16?
> I repeat it again: If the devs don't want to have 2 dc's in 5 man dungeons - stop it.
> Change the code that you can't start dungeons if there are 2 dc's in the party. There is no need to kill on Paragon.
> The do dc's today have a much harder time then AC dc's because do can 't protect.
>
> What role you devs want to have for the do dc?
I was thinking that to. But then how can we do fun runs in private Q ?
I'm thinkin some of you guys are missing the whole point here. Content and dungeons at end game weree too easy and fast with 2 DC meta so I'm glad and I think it's about time they end it. DO was buffed few mods ago in expense of the AC that was nerfed with AA being 50% effective of what it used to be, making DOs more viable buffer when TI was added as a group buff. The DO is still not as good as AC at true endgame, but its quite close there. I'm glad they chose not to nerf the AC further cause single DC runs without AC DC would've been tougher than single DO DC runs. I have both specs at end game and without a doubt the AC is much better solo buffer and I welcome everyone to try it themselves.
So even if they kept the DO buffs and just prevented people with going with a 2 DCs, most parties would still prefer an endgame AC over endgame DO (if they know what they're doing
As DO you'll have to make some changes but who hasn't during this game. Every class has been nerfed/boosted at some point. Its not as big as you make of it though. All the enchants are tradable so you could trade already whatever you're using for Radiants and Black Ice on yourself and Silveries on companion. Also insignas you could trade or sell and get new relevant ones. Most of the main gear is pretty free to have, the rings you have to farm, weapons you don't need to switch. Main work is Belt and Neck and new artifacts if you have pure DPS ones. You could work with the tiger\Con Artist for now so no need to switch main companion. The other companions give minimal gain in power so that's not a huge priority down the list. 2 of those comps are new for the ACs as well, so now when you switch be glad that you didn't upgrade 300 power comps just to have comps with 700 power few mods later. (did I say every class gets adjustments ?) Those 300 power companions are useless for AC now as well. The game constantly changes and players have to make readjustment.
The main issue here is that DO didn't use to need to have real gear to be efficent so low level DOs had easy times getting parties. The way I see it, end game DOs shouldn't have any issues changing to AC. The problem is the low level DOs which will become low level ACs which will have hard time getting groups.
really? are you sure? Its not possible for me and the easy Solution is: don't allow 2 dc's in 5 man Dungeons - Problems solved and all the do dc's that have put alot of work over years in their do can play like they want and are still buffers!
I had alot of times where noone runs with DO. Was hard to run FBI and so on.
The best Solution would be - just don't allow 2 dc's in a five man Dungeon - easy to code and noone have to leave.
The thing is. If these Changes go live I refuse to respec to AC. All nerfs buffs and so on since the beginnig of the game I could live with.
I also could live with a nerf of TI - i can't live with destroying my class.
I'm 17.3k DO (not in a GH20 Guild but not too far away) and it's the first time I thinking of quitting this game forever.
I also have a 16.5k cw thats fun to play - but if my DO is killed not only nerfed - i think I leave the game for good.
I'm also a guild leader and a loyal customer over the years - but with this going live - I'm done.
For TI i can suggest a better Option too. The percentage of buffs is based on critical chance? So when you crit chance is 100% your buffs from TI are 20 %. This way a good DO dc with high lvl gear and high critical strike would be better than a lower one. Also the AC dc coul not switch to be as effective as DO.
Not sure how many pure DO's are out there but I'm one of them.
I'm sure they don't rethink and so I look for other games now. Playing 1 last CR to get my chest piece and thats it.
this is all just so disheartening. I'm just shy of 18k on my DO. that was my ongoing drive in the game was to break 18k again. now.. it's really pointless. I don't have anything to work for anymore. and yeah, you could go start from fresh on any class.. but my luck has been everything I like gets nerfbatted to the point it's unplayable. my next choice would have been tr... Maybe cw will be viable.. but will it still be viable in mod 16.. just can't trust the devs here to have your back in your investment in game.
it would be nice to have unbind to account tokens when they do things like this so it didn't feel so overwhelmingly harsh.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1242862/why-do-dc-needs-to-stay-as-it-is-group-composition-is-better-then
I'm an AC DC as main build and DO for solo play. I already play as the devs want. I don't need the proposed changes.
Selfishly, the changes don't affect me, but they are so pointless that they are by right in the "epic fail" realm.
IMO this is not even a nerf. A nerf is a tone down: this is a nuke, the destruction/ big resizing of the whole DO paragon path.
It's like wanting a man to lose weight and someone cuts his arm to say "mission achieved".
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
18,3 ac here. Always been ac with do loadout full debuff no dps for the Situation its needed.
I prefere ac questing dunno. Do doesnt apeal to me.
In that regard for my fellow do players, please make do que as a dps and revise the debuff Potential. To put them in the place were sw cw are. A vailid dps Support
Yeah, I misunderstood you to be saying that DOs were viable DPS and should be made more viable, rather than saying they're not currently viable DPS but you want them to be made viable.
And I disagree, I don't think they should be made into DPS, but now I get what you said a little better. Sure. And when you do, the DO uses Empowered BTS and the AC uses Empowered Exaltation.
I spend most of my time in DO because I prefer the play experience, but I have AC loadouts for when that's needed. It means my enchants are a bit of a mixed bag: I'm not quite BIS in either (closer to BIS DO), but honestly I don't need to be for any current content.
And yeah, I'm usually top DPS or top 2 DPS in a pug, but that's pure gear score: there just aren't a lot of 16k+ people who know their stuff pugging, and when it comes to power, quantity is a lot like quality. If I get into a group with 3 *actual* DPS classes with ~16k scores I'll expect to come fourth, third in a pug because on average one of them won't know how to play.
(And I regularly pug RAQ with my DC or GF late at night when most of my guild is asleep, if I haven't done it yet and need the AD. But yeah, that does mean I'm carrying the team some times. Pugging REQ just seems like a bad idea in general.) Except, this *is* a feedback thread, about Preview stuff. We *can* convince them not to nerf the DO build quite as hard as this patch set would. It's happened before - remember when Bonding runestones were going to have a 50% uptime?
If you force people to run rainbow parties then they would have no reason to not run random queues other than to pick their dungeon. And maybe that's what they are really targeting. They see low participation in REQ. People will queue it now but just abandon if they get anything besides TONG because Cradle requires to much mechanic knowledge to be successful (and one person can destroy the run if they refuse to drag the cube to the right corners (I know its happened to me when I dared a REQ cradle) and CR is simply to hard with a rainbow party, especially when the second sister bugs.
Do the right thing, adjust rewards between premade and random queues to incentivize people to run your format without killing the freedom of choice.
Also btw, i'm doubtful a dps DC will ever be viable in dungeon because our dps is reliant on DOTs (which are painfully slow), timing on our own stacked buff/debuffs, and targeting with Daunting Light which is near impossible in 5 mans because mob direction is not terribly predictable and the spell is slow and doesn't self target. You need predictable mob behavior and proper timing to hit with it. Makes it totally doable in solo play where you have all the threat or on dummies which are stationary.