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M15: Oathbound Paladin Class Changes

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  • tepes#1182 tepes Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    @americanpeasant#1238 Most endgame groups who are farming CODG want 2 OPs (One Devo and One Prot). The Prot OP banes the boss and the devo OP banes the top 1 or 2 DPS. This is how endgame dungeons work. I'm not a fan of the botadin or afkadin myself, but it is what it is.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    edited September 2018

    Agree with getting rid of that crazy knockback on relentless avenger.



    I'm not sure why some people think it helps with soloing? It just slows down your own dps waiting for the enemies to make it back in range, same as it does in a group

    Thats why I mentioned that you're better with slotting BL vice RA. It really shines (or shone in my case) in zones like Soshenstar when it first went live and the dinos' aggro range was huge, and I was just slightly above the recommended IL for the zone. It really helped keep two deinonychus on the flanks at bay while you focused on the one in front and built up AP between DJ shots. Again, BL (and Smite) is arguably a better choice in most cases but its not a useless ability with the knockback if you're soloing. I should mention though...I was running those zones in my devo loadout, not as a Prot. On a prot, I would concede that its utility while soloing is very questionable. In that case, SW and BL would be much better choices.

    edit - For the record, I'm neither for or against the devs changing RA so it does a knock prone or stun in place of the knockback. I slot it when I need to when soloing and switch to either BL or Smite when I'm not.
    Post edited by majorcharvenak on
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User

    leonidrex said:

    There is a widely accepted theory in the game coming from HDPS that they recieve an added bonus damage from having a Healadin place Bane on them as a buff and this theory is selfish and false. It is way more beneficial to the group for a Healadin to place Bane on the enemy that the group wants to die first in this priority order:
    1. Enemy Healer
    2. Enemy controler
    3. Boss or enemy with the most hit points.
    Placing Bane on a minion is a wasted buff. When a Healadin places bane on the enemy target the entire group gets the buff instead of just one dps.

    you have no clue how buff/debuff works, dont spread false information
    Read the power tool tip again genius. The dps gets the same buff from bane when placed on the Enemy as placed on the dps themselves. FACT ! The only difference is when bane is placed on the dps that action taken denies the rest of the group the buff.
    Blessed is refreshed on a player if you reapply it before falls off iirc. The rotation with a single pally in party if you switch to devo is three stacks on the boss and three stacks on highest DPS but it can be extremely tricky without keybinds. In a two pally party its much easier - Prot bane's the boss while the Devo blesses the DPS. Bottom line is the tooltip might not be entirely accurate.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • anoreksjaanoreksja Member Posts: 113 Arc User
    Relentless Avenger in the current state makes the OP who uses it will be only for a solo game because no one players will want to join. For example, DC, HR are constantly asking me not to use this skill when I'm going to help them in quests. In my opinion the action of this skill is now useless and I do not remember any situation in which the action of crazy knockback helped me.
    I'm surprised that some ppl have to be convince to revise the effect of Relentless Avenger to a knockdown or a stun for say 4 sec. This is an advantage for all players I think so.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    anoreksja said:

    Relentless Avenger in the current state makes the OP who uses it will be only for a solo game because no one players will want to join. For example, DC, HR are constantly asking me not to use this skill when I'm going to help them in quests. In my opinion the action of this skill is now useless and I do not remember any situation in which the action of crazy knockback helped me.
    I'm surprised that some ppl have to be convince to revise the effect of Relentless Avenger to a knockdown or a stun for say 4 sec. This is an advantage for all players I think so.

    Then don't slot it since you're not solo. If you're in a group (either teamed or not teamed) use something else. I'm surprised that some people have to be convinced that some powers are better left to solo play and some are optimal for groups and all it takes is a second or two switching out powers.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 937 Arc User
    They should increase agrow on devo. This will force them to actually take part in combat and not just be there to buff and get free dps. If Devo dies(or have a chance of dying) more it will make it more fun to play
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    mynaam said:

    They should increase agrow on devo. This will force them to actually take part in combat and not just be there to buff and get free dps. If Devo dies(or have a chance of dying) more it will make it more fun to play

    Don't know who you've been running with but I'm always in the thick of things. Heck, sometimes I'm fighting for my life cause the tank has lost aggro.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • joantheengie2107joantheengie2107 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1 Arc User

    anoreksja said:

    Relentless Avenger in the current state makes the OP who uses it will be only for a solo game because no one players will want to join. For example, DC, HR are constantly asking me not to use this skill when I'm going to help them in quests. In my opinion the action of this skill is now useless and I do not remember any situation in which the action of crazy knockback helped me.
    I'm surprised that some ppl have to be convince to revise the effect of Relentless Avenger to a knockdown or a stun for say 4 sec. This is an advantage for all players I think so.

    Then don't slot it since you're not solo. If you're in a group (either teamed or not teamed) use something else. I'm surprised that some people have to be convinced that some powers are better left to solo play and some are optimal for groups and all it takes is a second or two switching out powers.
    But still make this skill useless so maybe new module could be a good opportunity to change a mechanic of this skill. Sadly some of OP (not all thankfully) still use it playing in grupe and it's annoying when mobs starting flying everywhere...
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    edited September 2018

    anoreksja said:

    Relentless Avenger in the current state makes the OP who uses it will be only for a solo game because no one players will want to join. For example, DC, HR are constantly asking me not to use this skill when I'm going to help them in quests. In my opinion the action of this skill is now useless and I do not remember any situation in which the action of crazy knockback helped me.
    I'm surprised that some ppl have to be convince to revise the effect of Relentless Avenger to a knockdown or a stun for say 4 sec. This is an advantage for all players I think so.

    Then don't slot it since you're not solo. If you're in a group (either teamed or not teamed) use something else. I'm surprised that some people have to be convinced that some powers are better left to solo play and some are optimal for groups and all it takes is a second or two switching out powers.
    But still make this skill useless so maybe new module could be a good opportunity to change a mechanic of this skill. Sadly some of OP (not all thankfully) still use it playing in grupe and it's annoying when mobs starting flying everywhere...
    Then that's the player and poor play on their part if they don't switch it out, not the mechanic itself. If they are say, soloing a demonic HE like Demonic escape, its helpful to keep the mobs away from the portal, hopefully giving them enough time to kill their main target or someone else coming into help. If others arrive or if they are joining an informal group they should slot something else. Its the lack of consideration for others. Its the same when DCs use Empowered Sunburst or CWs use Ice Storm in a group setting - lack of consideration, but I'm not seeing calls for those to be changed because experienced folks know NOT TO USE THEM IN GROUPS and that there are better abilities to use. Now with all that said, I'm neither for or against changing it. I just think that if folks are using it willy-nilly like that probably don't know what they're doing.
    Post edited by majorcharvenak on
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • disturbedboydisturbedboy Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    @"balanced#2849" any chance aura of courage can be fixed to work of paladins hp?
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    I'm really really sorry for the 'off topic' but I wish forum posts could have Razzie awards, some things in this thread deserve a category of their own.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    I'm really really sorry for the 'off topic' but I wish forum posts could have Razzie awards, some things in this thread deserve a category of their own.

    I just realized that myself.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • cloud1323#7124 cloud1323 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    > @cloud1323#7124 said:
    > If your looking into bulwark path could you address examplar of the light feat. With weapon damage over 2k the 1500% modifiers should add a shield in the well over a million but in actual fact it adds maybe 5-10k making it completely useless when on paper it should be epic

    Anyone had a chance to look into this feat?
  • geno82geno82 Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    > @cloud1323#7124 said:
    > > @cloud1323#7124 said:
    > > If your looking into bulwark path could you address examplar of the light feat. With weapon damage over 2k the 1500% modifiers should add a shield in the well over a million but in actual fact it adds maybe 5-10k making it completely useless when on paper it should be epic
    >
    > Anyone had a chance to look into this feat?

    1500% it's a 15* Multiplikator 2000*15=30.000 it's not worth
  • brewaldbrewald Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 212 Arc User
    @thefabricant


    They are functionally different. The 30% buff on the player does not equate to a 30% debuff on the enemy. debuffs are additive and subject to diminishing returns, buffs are multiplicative and have no diminishing returns. So, as nice as it would be to live in this fairy tale world where powers do what their tooltips describe, the buff (blessing) to a single ally is much better then the debuff (bane) as the 1 is a 30% buff to a single player vs something like, in an effective group, a 7% group wide bonus from bane.

    Hi Sharp.,
    I'm agree with you, but I don't understand how do you arrive to 7% of effectiveness form 30% (3*10%) of base debuff from Bane.

    Brew.
    Brewald - GWF 18.3k
    Eleonore - CW Mof Renegade 17.5k
    Harlgard le Vieux - OP Prot 18.3k
    Valrik - DC AC 18.2k
    Furiela - SW Temp 18.1k
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    brewald said:

    @thefabricant


    They are functionally different. The 30% buff on the player does not equate to a 30% debuff on the enemy. debuffs are additive and subject to diminishing returns, buffs are multiplicative and have no diminishing returns. So, as nice as it would be to live in this fairy tale world where powers do what their tooltips describe, the buff (blessing) to a single ally is much better then the debuff (bane) as the 1 is a 30% buff to a single player vs something like, in an effective group, a 7% group wide bonus from bane.

    Hi Sharp.,
    I'm agree with you, but I don't understand how do you arrive to 7% of effectiveness form 30% (3*10%) of base debuff from Bane.

    Brew.
    He was being nonchalant about other debuffs he's assuming are also present in the group. If you have a ton of debuffs already stacked on your boss, adding +30% from bane gets reduced a lot by the diminishing returns. I don't know how much base debuff you need to have for an incremental 30% --> 7%, but I think it's not hard to get to that point in "an effective group"
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    dupeks said:

    brewald said:

    @thefabricant


    They are functionally different. The 30% buff on the player does not equate to a 30% debuff on the enemy. debuffs are additive and subject to diminishing returns, buffs are multiplicative and have no diminishing returns. So, as nice as it would be to live in this fairy tale world where powers do what their tooltips describe, the buff (blessing) to a single ally is much better then the debuff (bane) as the 1 is a 30% buff to a single player vs something like, in an effective group, a 7% group wide bonus from bane.

    Hi Sharp.,
    I'm agree with you, but I don't understand how do you arrive to 7% of effectiveness form 30% (3*10%) of base debuff from Bane.

    Brew.
    He was being nonchalant about other debuffs he's assuming are also present in the group. If you have a ton of debuffs already stacked on your boss, adding +30% from bane gets reduced a lot by the diminishing returns. I don't know how much base debuff you need to have for an incremental 30% --> 7%, but I think it's not hard to get to that point in "an effective group"
    170% applied (before DR), for adding 30% will net 7% dps increase.

    If we look not at total dps increase but only debuff,
    at 367% applied it is effective 219%
    at 397% applied it is effective 226%

    But the context here is probably the first, so taking into account both the Diminishing returns on debuffs and the 'relative increase' vs already having debuffs, so at 170% debuff adding 30% it is comparable to 7% buff .
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    dupeks said:

    brewald said:

    @thefabricant


    They are functionally different. The 30% buff on the player does not equate to a 30% debuff on the enemy. debuffs are additive and subject to diminishing returns, buffs are multiplicative and have no diminishing returns. So, as nice as it would be to live in this fairy tale world where powers do what their tooltips describe, the buff (blessing) to a single ally is much better then the debuff (bane) as the 1 is a 30% buff to a single player vs something like, in an effective group, a 7% group wide bonus from bane.

    Hi Sharp.,
    I'm agree with you, but I don't understand how do you arrive to 7% of effectiveness form 30% (3*10%) of base debuff from Bane.

    Brew.
    He was being nonchalant about other debuffs he's assuming are also present in the group. If you have a ton of debuffs already stacked on your boss, adding +30% from bane gets reduced a lot by the diminishing returns. I don't know how much base debuff you need to have for an incremental 30% --> 7%, but I think it's not hard to get to that point in "an effective group"
    170% applied (before DR), for adding 30% will net 7% dps increase.

    If we look not at total dps increase but only debuff,
    at 367% applied it is effective 219%
    at 397% applied it is effective 226%

    But the context here is probably the first, so taking into account both the Diminishing returns on debuffs and the 'relative increase' vs already having debuffs, so at 170% debuff adding 30% it is comparable to 7% buff .
    This over here.
  • veywiil#8685 veywiil Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    I tested most of the changes and they seem to be working mostly as intended. I did notice that when you swap powers out there is a 10 second cooldown on the power you just swapped in. It can't be reduced/mitigated in any way either. This is new and does NOT seem to be mentioned anywhere but is impactful to gameplay for a number of individuals such as myself.
    I'm a theorycrafter, that means I can answer fairly deep questions with scientific theory, mathematical proof, and some guessing. Ask me stuff!
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    No VIP on Preview. Did you test the cooldown at a campfire to factor that out?
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
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