Since devs announced that they are not happy with a current state of the in game economy almost all of topics finnaly end up discussing this. What is even more funny - most peeps see that there is an issue, and they would like it to be dealt with while, at the same time they dont want any major changes.
We should talk about Knox here while we talk about legendary tools. Not that it is even better idea for a sink then Knox But then again.
And one more thing @omegarealities#7219 - technicly speaking you dont own anything in this game. Its a kind of a loan. So no Crytpic wouldnt steal anything form a players - all of it belongs to them. ANd if you count it in real life money - are you gold seller that you estimate loss of 15k $?
When you can spend real money on something then they take it away its stealing i dont see your logic that we are borrowing every item in this game?
Have you ever been in amusemnt park? Whatever if you bought a ticket or get a free pass you can enter nad have some fun, but nothing inside is yours. Heck with MMOs its even worse - you can take out a soda, baloon or a toy out of such a park (if you paid for it). Out of MMos you can bring back only the impressions
They absolutely can close your account, for no reason at all or citing that you "violated the ToS," and you have no recourse.
You are correct that they can close your account though you are wrong in regard to them being able to do so rightfully (meaning without penalty) or simply because their ToS states that they can and also wrong that innocent players have no recourse, they still have to provide a valid reason other than "you violated the ToS", if not a player can seek compensation for their loss of T/E/M invested into the account.
Just like with police, yes they can arrest you simply if they feel like it though if they do so wrongfully (unjustified) the arrested person is entitled to compensation. It is also similar to "at will" employment, yes the employer can terminate you for any or no reason though they cannot rightfully terminate an employee based on discrimination, retaliation, etc.
In a contractual agreement such as with video games, it falls under contract law and with contract law in regard to a breach by one party, the other is entitled to compensation and or remedy. After the agreement is made (the player accepting the terms) and as long as the player follows the rules/terms the publisher cannot rightfully deny them access to the game outside of maintenance, etc. or simply claim the player breached the contract to then try and rightfully terminate the agreement (suspend/ban the account), they have to give a reason and that reason must be valid (such as with a player actually breaking the rules/terms) regardless if the TOS states that the publisher can terminate an account for any or no reason. It helps prevents abuse and discrimination against players.
In regard to Neverwinter and the case with the player that played for long periods of time and didn't get their account suspended/banned until after they stopped spending money Cryptic would have to disprove any claim(s) of discrimination in order to prove/justify why action was not taken on the account while money was being spent though action was taken after money stopped being spent, especially when there are other players that claim/supposedly play for long periods of time, don't spend money and are not actioned against (discrimination). If all players that play for long periods of time regardless if they spend money or not do not have their accounts suspended/banned that is discrimination and a breach of the contractual agreement in part due to all players not being held to the same standards.
Sure, in this country you can attempt to take anyone to court for just about anything (as long as you have money for an attorney). But see if you can find any examples of players taking action successfully against a publisher on a ToS-related issue. I wasn't able to find any successful examples.
When it comes to things where the other party is clearly in the wrong and you have reliable evidence to support your claim(s) an attorney/lawyer isn't required, you can go to court and speak on your own behalf instead of paying someone to do it for you.
Chatted with a player online that claimed they took a settlement from Cryptic in regard to an unjustified ban. So yea, players apparently do go up against publishers and arguably at least some of those situations are settled out of court which don't get much press, if any. What tends to happen though is players feel that they have no standing or that it will cost too much to try and pursue compensation from the publisher which is exactly what publishers count on when they are in the wrong.
ToS are not as solid as people are making them out to be, surprisingly it is players that are the front runners with perpetuating the supposed "helplessness" of players against abusive/contract breaching publishers. Arguably no one here would simply take an unjustified suspension/ban lying down especially after they have invested money and thousands of hours into an account.
First of all, I am very and truly sorry but you are wrong m8. All that stories about succesfull fight with any MMOs publisher is just a urban legend. First of all, every such a game is kept in technicly/legally spekaing "unfinished state". It has it reason - if that would be finished product you could start demand that for example its not working like you would like or expected etc. Yeah I know - lawyers trick - but thats exactly how it works and why no1 literally no1 will succesfully take his money back ouf of any publisher unless laws gona change. Chargeback is the only way - but guess what - it end up with a ban
Different countries have distinct law systems what makes that even harder. And dont make a mistake - first country that somehow will try to put a law forbidding "god mode" of MMOs publishers would be the first one not served by any MMO.
It sucks I know, but at his point its like jumping form a cliff to unknown waters - there was a warning sign - "you jump on own risk" ........... but you just jumped.
When it comes to things where the other party is clearly in the wrong and you have reliable evidence to support your claim(s) an attorney/lawyer isn't required, you can go to court and speak on your own behalf instead of paying someone to do it for you.
Chatted with a player online that claimed they took a settlement from Cryptic in regard to an unjustified ban. So yea, players apparently do go up against publishers and arguably at least some of those situations are settled out of court which don't get much press, if any. What tends to happen though is players feel that they have no standing or that it will cost too much to try and pursue compensation from the publisher which is exactly what publishers count on when they are in the wrong.
ToS are not as solid as people are making them out to be, surprisingly it is players that are the front runners with perpetuating the supposed "helplessness" of players against abusive/contract breaching publishers. Arguably no one here would simply take an unjustified suspension/ban lying down especially after they have invested money and thousands of hours into an account.
I don't want to really continue going around in circles, but again this is just wishful thinking.
"Chatted with a player online that claimed" is a pretty low standard for evidence. Let me be clear: that player told you a bogus story.
Bigger entities have come up against ToS issues (memberships, subscriptions, etc.) and have largely found that businesses have wide latitude in denying service / restricting access for loosely defined bad behavior. And given the recent trends in corporate free speech in the country is, it's hard to see that changing soon (SCOTUS said those bakers were potentially within their rights to deny baking HAMSTER cakes).
The examples you mentioned about employment are specifically written into state and local laws to afford employees protections above what would be required under their at-will employment terms. Such protections do not extend to participating in online services such as this game.
Even though it would be a beautiful world if everyone who was wrongfully terminated or had their online account wrongfully suspended had a practical recourse. In reality, they don't. They are at the mercy of the publisher, and the publisher is only beholden to their paying customers and public image.
Since devs announced that they are not happy with a current state of the in game economy almost all of topics finnaly end up discussing this. What is even more funny - most peeps see that there is an issue, and they would like it to be dealt with while, at the same time they dont want any major changes.
We should talk about Knox here while we talk about legendary tools. Not that it is even better idea for a sink then Knox But then again.
And one more thing @omegarealities#7219 - technicly speaking you dont own anything in this game. Its a kind of a loan. So no Crytpic wouldnt steal anything form a players - all of it belongs to them. ANd if you count it in real life money - are you gold seller that you estimate loss of 15k $?
So what you are saying is, if I spend $200 real money and purchase 23,000 Zen, that Zen is not mine?
Also, the $15,000 was not pulled out of thin air, here's how it works:
900,000,000 AD = 1,800,000 Zen - @ 500 AD/Zen
1,800,000 Zen = 78.26 23,000 Zen Packs
78.26 23,000 Zen Packs @ $200 a piece equals about $15,652.
If those ZENs are yours try to sell them back for real money...... good luck with that. Your dollars are yours and do have a value - but all kind of MMOs are place that any money put in do not bring you anything of value as you cant own any part of it. Sure you can try to sell in game items or even account on tird party sites - but that is illegal according to EULA and you do that on your own risk.
MMOs... now that is a real money sink
I never said anything about selling the ZEN for real money. I was simply trying to put a tangible value on something that some people think is perfectly okay to take away from players.
Also, I never said that Cryptic COULDN'T take things away from players. But, if they do, they need to be careful how they do it. With social media now days it can be damaging to a company's reputation.
One other point. Please stop trying to portray me as some type of money grubbing bad guy. I am just another gamer (and not a rich one) who has an alternative point of view.
Since devs announced that they are not happy with a current state of the in game economy almost all of topics finnaly end up discussing this. What is even more funny - most peeps see that there is an issue, and they would like it to be dealt with while, at the same time they dont want any major changes.
We should talk about Knox here while we talk about legendary tools. Not that it is even better idea for a sink then Knox But then again.
And one more thing @omegarealities#7219 - technicly speaking you dont own anything in this game. Its a kind of a loan. So no Crytpic wouldnt steal anything form a players - all of it belongs to them. ANd if you count it in real life money - are you gold seller that you estimate loss of 15k $?
When you can spend real money on something then they take it away its stealing i dont see your logic that we are borrowing every item in this game?
Have you ever been in amusemnt park? Whatever if you bought a ticket or get a free pass you can enter nad have some fun, but nothing inside is yours. Heck with MMOs its even worse - you can take out a soda, baloon or a toy out of such a park (if you paid for it). Out of MMos you can bring back only the impressions
Ok well this conversation is going as good as banging my head against a wall! When we are talking about owing an item we are talking about owing it in this GAME of course we know you cant just fire up ebay and sell that legendary mount or any Item for that matter. But what we are talking about is owing such item in NEVERWINTER not IRL and yes if they just remove something from you for no reason is stealing. Similar situations have happened to suggest it. Yes they can do whatever they want its their game but at the end of the day their main goal is to have people playing their game and making them money. So if they start removing/ taking from players who obtained there items within the TOS they wouldnt have a player base anymore and the game would be dead. We know you cant sell items third party and make real money simply stating that its owned within the game.
Just to be clear as im sure most would agree, when im talking on these forums its in relation to neverwinter NOT real life. We shouldn't have to clarify that we are talking about the game this is a forum about neverwinter so to try and make someone look bad and make it look like neverwinter is life to them, its not
This is small fry, if the devs really want to get rid of AD they are not even trying. Raise the AD limit to 2 billion+ per toon as well as the minimum bid, then post some of the rarer legendary tools on the auction house, like this:
Before bid: After bid: (Thanks to the person who provided the picture, I don't play xbox)
I know a few people, including myself, who would spend over 100m on these. For bonus points, post a single mythic tool that works on every profession, similar to forgehammer, which can be used in addition to forgehammer. It would sell for whatever the max ad bid is, even if it was 2 billion.
Minor digression, 17! leg tools on xbox ah In comparison, pc market:
@noworries#8859 for real ^ this. raising the ad limit wouldn't really make a difference since people with this much money are just converting it all to zen. might help the market a bit that way as well.
Since devs announced that they are not happy with a current state of the in game economy almost all of topics finnaly end up discussing this. What is even more funny - most peeps see that there is an issue, and they would like it to be dealt with while, at the same time they dont want any major changes.
We should talk about Knox here while we talk about legendary tools. Not that it is even better idea for a sink then Knox But then again.
And one more thing @omegarealities#7219 - technicly speaking you dont own anything in this game. Its a kind of a loan. So no Crytpic wouldnt steal anything form a players - all of it belongs to them. ANd if you count it in real life money - are you gold seller that you estimate loss of 15k $?
So what you are saying is, if I spend $200 real money and purchase 23,000 Zen, that Zen is not mine?
Also, the $15,000 was not pulled out of thin air, here's how it works:
900,000,000 AD = 1,800,000 Zen - @ 500 AD/Zen
1,800,000 Zen = 78.26 23,000 Zen Packs
78.26 23,000 Zen Packs @ $200 a piece equals about $15,652.
If those ZENs are yours try to sell them back for real money...... good luck with that. Your dollars are yours and do have a value - but all kind of MMOs are place that any money put in do not bring you anything of value as you cant own any part of it. Sure you can try to sell in game items or even account on tird party sites - but that is illegal according to EULA and you do that on your own risk.
MMOs... now that is a real money sink
I never said anything about selling the ZEN for real money. I was simply trying to put a tangible value on something that some people think is perfectly okay to take away from players.
Also, I never said that Cryptic COULDN'T take things away from players. But, if they do, they need to be careful how they do it. With social media now days it can be damaging to a company's reputation.
One other point. Please stop trying to portray me as some type of money grubbing bad guy. I am just another gamer (and not a rich one) who has an alternative point of view.
Sorry it wasnt my point to portray you that way - if you felt like this - I am sorry for that. Now - to the ponit. Value of anything is not written in stone. Even the money dont keep their value as inflation or deflation takes place. Value exist only in our minds - some will see that knox valuable and consider to buy it - others wont even taka a look on it. Lets assume both such players are wealthy enaugh to buy this - at the same point this companion has/ and has no value. But we started from putting real money onto this game. And it looks like this - those money, and hard work behind them to get them have a value. Money in general have value cos majority of peoples agreed to use it. But in normal circumstances you exchange your work for money and money for goods. If you paid you go into possesion of a thing or have right to use some service. Except MMOs - those are liek amusement park I mentioned above - feel free to pay as muchas you like. But dont expect that anything connected to MMO game wont be taken from you for a reason or not. I belive its the ony example on a globe when you spend your money and still you are on a mercy of the company.
And last thing. NWO is not the only mmo out here. And devs do have at lest a few decissions witch bring them a bad press/social media (coalgate, keygate, bondings now rADgate) and guess what - they keep on going, still on the road. You see all that talking about a press/media/social media etc. etc. is well.... just taking. We are so pressed with informations every day that our minds to keep a brain healthy just stop see/hear them. In short we dont give a hamster on any news. Even if we do its so short lived that its not even worth mentioning. You gona make a hamsterstorm on social media about a gameand that day some of your frinds may even wann read it and gona comment that. In a few day they wont remember anything, mayby the game title but thats it. In week not to mention a month no1 would remember that. Like this post - in a month no1 will remember it - and devs and publishers do know that. Hypes do last longer, but all kind of badmouthing due to political correctness and rest of such BS are vanishing very fast. Just take a look on htat forum - not long ago there was a "dislike" option in fast comments - now its gone.... boy I miss a times of a trully free speech.
Since devs announced that they are not happy with a current state of the in game economy almost all of topics finnaly end up discussing this. What is even more funny - most peeps see that there is an issue, and they would like it to be dealt with while, at the same time they dont want any major changes.
We should talk about Knox here while we talk about legendary tools. Not that it is even better idea for a sink then Knox But then again.
And one more thing @omegarealities#7219 - technicly speaking you dont own anything in this game. Its a kind of a loan. So no Crytpic wouldnt steal anything form a players - all of it belongs to them. ANd if you count it in real life money - are you gold seller that you estimate loss of 15k $?
So what you are saying is, if I spend $200 real money and purchase 23,000 Zen, that Zen is not mine?
Also, the $15,000 was not pulled out of thin air, here's how it works:
900,000,000 AD = 1,800,000 Zen - @ 500 AD/Zen
1,800,000 Zen = 78.26 23,000 Zen Packs
78.26 23,000 Zen Packs @ $200 a piece equals about $15,652.
If those ZENs are yours try to sell them back for real money...... good luck with that. Your dollars are yours and do have a value - but all kind of MMOs are place that any money put in do not bring you anything of value as you cant own any part of it. Sure you can try to sell in game items or even account on tird party sites - but that is illegal according to EULA and you do that on your own risk.
MMOs... now that is a real money sink
I never said anything about selling the ZEN for real money. I was simply trying to put a tangible value on something that some people think is perfectly okay to take away from players.
Also, I never said that Cryptic COULDN'T take things away from players. But, if they do, they need to be careful how they do it. With social media now days it can be damaging to a company's reputation.
One other point. Please stop trying to portray me as some type of money grubbing bad guy. I am just another gamer (and not a rich one) who has an alternative point of view.
Sorry it wasnt my point to portray you that way - if you felt like this - I am sorry for that. Now - to the ponit. Value of anything is not written in stone. Even the money dont keep their value as inflation or deflation takes place. Value exist only in our minds - some will see that knox valuable and consider to buy it - others wont even taka a look on it. Lets assume both such players are wealthy enaugh to buy this - at the same point this companion has/ and has no value. But we started from putting real money onto this game. And it looks like this - those money, and hard work behind them to get them have a value. Money in general have value cos majority of peoples agreed to use it. But in normal circumstances you exchange your work for money and money for goods. If you paid you go into possesion of a thing or have right to use some service. Except MMOs - those are liek amusement park I mentioned above - feel free to pay as muchas you like. But dont expect that anything connected to MMO game wont be taken from you for a reason or not. I belive its the ony example on a globe when you spend your money and still you are on a mercy of the company.
And last thing. NWO is not the only mmo out here. And devs do have at lest a few decissions witch bring them a bad press/social media (coalgate, keygate, bondings now rADgate) and guess what - they keep on going, still on the road. You see all that talking about a press/media/social media etc. etc. is well.... just taking. We are so pressed with informations every day that our minds to keep a brain healthy just stop see/hear them. In short we dont give a hamster on any news. Even if we do its so short lived that its not even worth mentioning. You gona make a hamsterstorm on social media about a gameand that day some of your frinds may even wann read it and gona comment that. In a few day they wont remember anything, mayby the game title but thats it. In week not to mention a month no1 would remember that. Like this post - in a month no1 will remember it - and devs and publishers do know that. Hypes do last longer, but all kind of badmouthing due to political correctness and rest of such BS are vanishing very fast. Just take a look on htat forum - not long ago there was a "dislike" option in fast comments - now its gone.... boy I miss a times of a trully free speech.
First, thank you for the apology. However, I will disagree with using Coalgate, Keygate and rADgate as examples. Each of these changed how you acquire something. When you seize an legitimately earned item from a player, I feel, would be a different situation. Yeah, most people would not care (as with most things in game and IRL), but it could make one wonder, what could be next.
Each of these changed how you acquire something. When you seize an legitimately earned item from a player, I feel, would be a different situation. Yeah, most people would not care (as with most things in game and IRL), but it could make one wonder, what could be next.
Nothing in Neverwinter is your property. The game and all its contents is the property of Cryptic, that are using it to provide a service to you. Any money you put into the game will cause Cryptic to change the level of service you get, it does not in any way give you any ownership to anything in game.
And if you read the TOS you see that Cryptic reserve the right to change and terminate the game at will, including denying the service to individuals at their call. So basically you have no rights at all. Cryptic however wants the game to be popular and attract more players, and to do that they need to provide a minimum of predictable quality service so in that sense the players and Cryptic have the same interests. However, do not doubt for a moment that the day the game is not making money it will be shut down.
Each of these changed how you acquire something. When you seize an legitimately earned item from a player, I feel, would be a different situation. Yeah, most people would not care (as with most things in game and IRL), but it could make one wonder, what could be next.
Nothing in Neverwinter is your property. The game and all its contents is the property of Cryptic, that are using it to provide a service to you. Any money you put into the game will cause Cryptic to change the level of service you get, it does not in any way give you any ownership to anything in game.
And if you read the TOS you see that Cryptic reserve the right to change and terminate the game at will, including denying the service to individuals at their call. So basically you have no rights at all. Cryptic however wants the game to be popular and attract more players, and to do that they need to provide a minimum of predictable quality service so in that sense the players and Cryptic have the same interests. However, do not doubt for a moment that the day the game is not making money it will be shut down.
This is the thing as it seems like people are getting confused thinking that all these conversations are about taking a item out of the game and selling it. Sure if you read the TOS it states that none owns any content, example third party selling\buying. For the most part there talking about modifying anything in the game. But there needs to be some kind of trust from cryptic before anyone will put money into the game if they bought $200 in zen and converted it all to AD then woke up one day to see that its been taken from cryptic it would kill their game none would ever trust that company again and there would be massive charge backs from credit card companies and im sure there would be people trying to go after the cryptic as well. One thing to think about is sure its hard to find something on the internet about people taking on game companies its more than likely because it was settled out of court because any kind of unwanted attention to a company could kill their image and their games present and future.
This is the thing as it seems like people are getting confused thinking that all these conversations are about taking a item out of the game and selling it. Sure if you read the TOS it states that none owns any content, example third party selling\buying. For the most part there talking about modifying anything in the game. But there needs to be some kind of trust from cryptic before anyone will put money into the game if they bought $200 in zen and converted it all to AD then woke up one day to see that its been taken from cryptic it would kill their game none would ever trust that company again and there would be massive charge backs from credit card companies and im sure there would be people trying to go after the cryptic as well. One thing to think about is sure its hard to find something on the internet about people taking on game companies its more than likely because it was settled out of court because any kind of unwanted attention to a company could kill their image and their games present and future.
I doubt there has been any settlements. The game companies have lawyers that have made the TOS fairly fool-proof, so you have no chance at all at getting through in a court. And the costs of doing so would far outpace the original lost money. The money put into the game IS small stuff, after all. (At least for most of us, I am sure there are some rich maniacs out there )
You CAN attack the game companies by going after their reputation, as that would directly hit their income. But for all games there is all the time some low-level noise about people being banned(most of them for good reasons), bugs causing mishaps in game, bad customer service etc. To make problems for the game companies above that low-level everpresent noise takes something fairly major beyond what happens to one individual.
So I doubt you would have any base to negotiate anything with the game companies from.
But again: The game companies are very interested in keeping their customers happy or they will vote with their feet. It is not like the game companies can tie you to them and suck you dry. If you don't like a game service, move on.
And btw Cryptic.. it is high time the CW class get some love!
The game companies have lawyers that have made the TOS fairly fool-proof, so you have no chance at all at getting through in a court. And the costs of doing so would far outpace the original lost money.
False
Unlawful acts committed by the publisher are not permitted via ToS clauses.
With sufficient evidence one simply has to pay the court filing fee and any associated costs with serving a subpoena(s) if the publisher doesn't reach out to try and settle. No need to hire an attorney/lawyer to speak for you, the evidence will speak for itself. It would essentially cost the publisher far more to send a representative to appear in court than settle
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Unlawful acts committed by the publisher are not permitted via ToS clauses.
With sufficient evidence one simply has to pay the court filing fee and any associated costs with serving a subpoena(s) if the publisher doesn't reach out to try and settle. No need to hire an attorney/lawyer to speak for you, the evidence will speak for itself. It would essentially cost the publisher far more to send a representative to appear in court than settle
Well, a few things: * At least in the jurisdiction of my country you will also be sentenced to cover the expenses of the opposition if your case is found to be without merit. Generally if you lose, expect to pay ALL expenses incurred by everyone. That could quickly become expensive. * While it is true contracts(like the TOS) cannot go outside the law, I am fairly certain the TOSes are well within the law. And you are basically with no legal rights when it comes to the quality or duration of the service the game companies give to you. * The game companies WOULD pursue this in court because of precedence. If it becomes known that it is easy to get compensation out of a game company by claiming this or that, they would see a rush of people doing it. This will long term cost them a lot more than fighting one battle in the courts.
Unlawful acts committed by the publisher are not permitted via ToS clauses.
With sufficient evidence one simply has to pay the court filing fee and any associated costs with serving a subpoena(s) if the publisher doesn't reach out to try and settle. No need to hire an attorney/lawyer to speak for you, the evidence will speak for itself. It would essentially cost the publisher far more to send a representative to appear in court than settle
Well, a few things: * At least in the jurisdiction of my country you will also be sentenced to cover the expenses of the opposition if your case is found to be without merit. Generally if you lose, expect to pay ALL expenses incurred by everyone. That could quickly become expensive. * While it is true contracts(like the TOS) cannot go outside the law, I am fairly certain the TOSes are well within the law. And you are basically with no legal rights when it comes to the quality or duration of the service the game companies give to you. * The game companies WOULD pursue this in court because of precedence. If it becomes known that it is easy to get compensation out of a game company by claiming this or that, they would see a rush of people doing it. This will long term cost them a lot more than fighting one battle in the courts.
I think thats more for civil and small business suits.
Unlawful acts committed by the publisher are not permitted via ToS clauses.
With sufficient evidence one simply has to pay the court filing fee and any associated costs with serving a subpoena(s) if the publisher doesn't reach out to try and settle. No need to hire an attorney/lawyer to speak for you, the evidence will speak for itself. It would essentially cost the publisher far more to send a representative to appear in court than settle
Well, a few things: * At least in the jurisdiction of my country you will also be sentenced to cover the expenses of the opposition if your case is found to be without merit. Generally if you lose, expect to pay ALL expenses incurred by everyone. That could quickly become expensive. * While it is true contracts(like the TOS) cannot go outside the law, I am fairly certain the TOSes are well within the law. And you are basically with no legal rights when it comes to the quality or duration of the service the game companies give to you. * The game companies WOULD pursue this in court because of precedence. If it becomes known that it is easy to get compensation out of a game company by claiming this or that, they would see a rush of people doing it. This will long term cost them a lot more than fighting one battle in the courts.
I don't think they'd see a rush of people doing it. Honestly, 80% or more of people who play these games either are too lazy or too busy (or both) to pursue a lawsuit against a game developer. I would have to have spent literally thousands of dollars on the game right before they took my account away from me in order to even consider such a thing. I've probably spent $1000 on the game over the last year (between mine and my wife's accounts) and if they took my account away from me today for no reason, I would just go on with life. Yeah, I would be ticked off, but it would just keep me away from all games by this developer (both Cryptic and PWE). In the end, spending money on this game is my primary entertainment expense. When it goes away, I'll just find some other entertainment.
Each of these changed how you acquire something. When you seize an legitimately earned item from a player, I feel, would be a different situation. Yeah, most people would not care (as with most things in game and IRL), but it could make one wonder, what could be next.
Nothing in Neverwinter is your property. The game and all its contents is the property of Cryptic, that are using it to provide a service to you. Any money you put into the game will cause Cryptic to change the level of service you get, it does not in any way give you any ownership to anything in game.
And if you read the TOS you see that Cryptic reserve the right to change and terminate the game at will, including denying the service to individuals at their call. So basically you have no rights at all. Cryptic however wants the game to be popular and attract more players, and to do that they need to provide a minimum of predictable quality service so in that sense the players and Cryptic have the same interests. However, do not doubt for a moment that the day the game is not making money it will be shut down.
This is the thing as it seems like people are getting confused thinking that all these conversations are about taking a item out of the game and selling it. Sure if you read the TOS it states that none owns any content, example third party selling\buying. For the most part there talking about modifying anything in the game. But there needs to be some kind of trust from cryptic before anyone will put money into the game if they bought $200 in zen and converted it all to AD then woke up one day to see that its been taken from cryptic it would kill their game none would ever trust that company again and there would be massive charge backs from credit card companies and im sure there would be people trying to go after the cryptic as well. One thing to think about is sure its hard to find something on the internet about people taking on game companies its more than likely because it was settled out of court because any kind of unwanted attention to a company could kill their image and their games present and future.
Man, if there would be any succesfull attempt internet would know that - there are millions of players waiting a day when they could say to MMOs publishers - Yes you get my money - so play nice now, or.... It would be a news like a finding a cure for a cancer.
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Different countries have distinct law systems what makes that even harder. And dont make a mistake - first country that somehow will try to put a law forbidding "god mode" of MMOs publishers would be the first one not served by any MMO.
It sucks I know, but at his point its like jumping form a cliff to unknown waters - there was a warning sign - "you jump on own risk" ........... but you just jumped.
"Chatted with a player online that claimed" is a pretty low standard for evidence. Let me be clear: that player told you a bogus story.
Bigger entities have come up against ToS issues (memberships, subscriptions, etc.) and have largely found that businesses have wide latitude in denying service / restricting access for loosely defined bad behavior. And given the recent trends in corporate free speech in the country is, it's hard to see that changing soon (SCOTUS said those bakers were potentially within their rights to deny baking HAMSTER cakes).
The examples you mentioned about employment are specifically written into state and local laws to afford employees protections above what would be required under their at-will employment terms. Such protections do not extend to participating in online services such as this game.
Even though it would be a beautiful world if everyone who was wrongfully terminated or had their online account wrongfully suspended had a practical recourse. In reality, they don't. They are at the mercy of the publisher, and the publisher is only beholden to their paying customers and public image.
Also, I never said that Cryptic COULDN'T take things away from players. But, if they do, they need to be careful how they do it. With social media now days it can be damaging to a company's reputation.
One other point. Please stop trying to portray me as some type of money grubbing bad guy. I am just another gamer (and not a rich one) who has an alternative point of view.
Just to be clear as im sure most would agree, when im talking on these forums its in relation to neverwinter NOT real life. We shouldn't have to clarify that we are talking about the game this is a forum about neverwinter so to try and make someone look bad and make it look like neverwinter is life to them, its not
@noworries#8859 for real ^ this. raising the ad limit wouldn't really make a difference since people with this much money are just converting it all to zen. might help the market a bit that way as well.
Now - to the ponit. Value of anything is not written in stone. Even the money dont keep their value as inflation or deflation takes place. Value exist only in our minds - some will see that knox valuable and consider to buy it - others wont even taka a look on it. Lets assume both such players are wealthy enaugh to buy this - at the same point this companion has/ and has no value. But we started from putting real money onto this game. And it looks like this - those money, and hard work behind them to get them have a value. Money in general have value cos majority of peoples agreed to use it. But in normal circumstances you exchange your work for money and money for goods. If you paid you go into possesion of a thing or have right to use some service. Except MMOs - those are liek amusement park I mentioned above - feel free to pay as muchas you like. But dont expect that anything connected to MMO game wont be taken from you for a reason or not. I belive its the ony example on a globe when you spend your money and still you are on a mercy of the company.
And last thing. NWO is not the only mmo out here. And devs do have at lest a few decissions witch bring them a bad press/social media (coalgate, keygate, bondings now rADgate) and guess what - they keep on going, still on the road.
You see all that talking about a press/media/social media etc. etc. is well.... just taking. We are so pressed with informations every day that our minds to keep a brain healthy just stop see/hear them. In short we dont give a hamster on any news. Even if we do its so short lived that its not even worth mentioning. You gona make a hamsterstorm on social media about a gameand that day some of your frinds may even wann read it and gona comment that. In a few day they wont remember anything, mayby the game title but thats it. In week not to mention a month no1 would remember that.
Like this post - in a month no1 will remember it - and devs and publishers do know that. Hypes do last longer, but all kind of badmouthing due to political correctness and rest of such BS are vanishing very fast. Just take a look on htat forum - not long ago there was a "dislike" option in fast comments - now its gone.... boy I miss a times of a trully free speech.
And if you read the TOS you see that Cryptic reserve the right to change and terminate the game at will, including denying the service to individuals at their call. So basically you have no rights at all. Cryptic however wants the game to be popular and attract more players, and to do that they need to provide a minimum of predictable quality service so in that sense the players and Cryptic have the same interests. However, do not doubt for a moment that the day the game is not making money it will be shut down.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
You CAN attack the game companies by going after their reputation, as that would directly hit their income. But for all games there is all the time some low-level noise about people being banned(most of them for good reasons), bugs causing mishaps in game, bad customer service etc. To make problems for the game companies above that low-level everpresent noise takes something fairly major beyond what happens to one individual.
So I doubt you would have any base to negotiate anything with the game companies from.
But again: The game companies are very interested in keeping their customers happy or they will vote with their feet. It is not like the game companies can tie you to them and suck you dry. If you don't like a game service, move on.
And btw Cryptic.. it is high time the CW class get some love!
Unlawful acts committed by the publisher are not permitted via ToS clauses.
With sufficient evidence one simply has to pay the court filing fee and any associated costs with serving a subpoena(s) if the publisher doesn't reach out to try and settle. No need to hire an attorney/lawyer to speak for you, the evidence will speak for itself. It would essentially cost the publisher far more to send a representative to appear in court than settle
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
* At least in the jurisdiction of my country you will also be sentenced to cover the expenses of the opposition if your case is found to be without merit. Generally if you lose, expect to pay ALL expenses incurred by everyone. That could quickly become expensive.
* While it is true contracts(like the TOS) cannot go outside the law, I am fairly certain the TOSes are well within the law. And you are basically with no legal rights when it comes to the quality or duration of the service the game companies give to you.
* The game companies WOULD pursue this in court because of precedence. If it becomes known that it is easy to get compensation out of a game company by claiming this or that, they would see a rush of people doing it. This will long term cost them a lot more than fighting one battle in the courts.
It would be a news like a finding a cure for a cancer.