Am I right that the cost to upgrade from Perfect -> Pure and Pure -> Trans will be increased for the RP rich people?
Perfect -> Pure Now: 622K RP + 5 SMOP + 3 Blue Stone Will be: 40K RP + 10 SMOP + 3 Greater Enchantment stones.
Pure -> Trans Now: 1088K RP + 5 SMOP + 3 Greater stone Will be: 55K RP + 15 SMOP + 6 Greater Enchantment stone.
We can farm RP consistently through various utility enchantments and leadership. For me, the cost of RP is virtually zero. We cannot farm SMOP and Greater stone consistently from anything.
Since the demand of RP will be dramatically decreased, so will the price of RP.
Having to match enchantments, stones, and types of items created a massive amount of inventory to maintain and organize. In the end, this doesn't add to the experience as much as it takes away from it all. So we did just that, took it all away. Now players will use Refinement Points (thought you might like to keep your acronym) which will be a currency. Gemstones, Enchantments, Runestones, Artifacts, Artifact Equipment, Uncommon (Green) Equipment (must be identified), will all break down into Refinement Points which will be a currency on the inventory sheet. All of the refining will use Refinement Points for upgrades, along with reagents of course. This means you no longer have to manage all of those different item types and dread looking at your inventory or bank. You can just break it all down into a simple currency that all items share.
To go along with this we have a new conversion window that has some easy options to input all of the different convertible items that you want to break down into Refinement Points in one simple click. In addition, any item which can be converted, can be by using the drop down menu for that item. The refinement upgrade window will now have a nice clean interface where the player can slide a bar to determine how many Refinement Points they wish to add to the item. This bar will default at either the amount needed for the next level, or the maximum a player can deposit if less than a full level as we felt that is the most common action players would do. On top of that, you can now put in the full amount of RP needed to level up and upgrade all in a single button press. Nice and quick and easy!
And you may have noticed how I mentioned Identified Uncommon Equipment can be turned into RP and thought "Man, identifying all of my green drops will be such a pain!", well we are also adding an Identify All button which will take your ID scrolls and identify all the unidentified items in your inventory with one click.
Now because we switched to a currency and want to try for manageable amounts of currency. We reduced both the value of RP points of the items and the cost to upgrade items by a factor of 10. Example a black opal now awards 1,000 RP, but costs are lowered by the same factor as well. To be very clear, this does not change the cost of refinement at all! This simply reduces the values all around so we can keep the currency lower and have room for players to hold plenty of currency and grow the system in the future. We will give the exact progression charts in the technical details post as well so that you can all see for yourselves how it will be functioning.
Please Open Your Eyes!
Dead 🔪
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someonediesMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,257Arc User
No more set swapin.. Penalty is just toooo HIGH!
PTR Rank 60 Equipment costs ~ 230000 PR and Discard button gives = 46467 RP
Am I right that the cost to upgrade from Perfect -> Pure and Pure -> Trans will be increased for the RP rich people?
Perfect -> Pure Now: 622K RP + 5 SMOP + 3 Blue Stone Will be: 40K RP + 10 SMOP + 3 Greater Enchantment stones.
Pure -> Trans Now: 1088K RP + 5 SMOP + 3 Greater stone Will be: 55K RP + 15 SMOP + 6 Greater Enchantment stone.
We can farm RP consistently through various utility enchantments and leadership. For me, the cost of RP is virtually zero. We cannot farm SMOP and Greater stone consistently from anything.
Since the demand of RP will be dramatically decreased, so will the price of RP.
Having to match enchantments, stones, and types of items created a massive amount of inventory to maintain and organize. In the end, this doesn't add to the experience as much as it takes away from it all. So we did just that, took it all away. Now players will use Refinement Points (thought you might like to keep your acronym) which will be a currency. Gemstones, Enchantments, Runestones, Artifacts, Artifact Equipment, Uncommon (Green) Equipment (must be identified), will all break down into Refinement Points which will be a currency on the inventory sheet. All of the refining will use Refinement Points for upgrades, along with reagents of course. This means you no longer have to manage all of those different item types and dread looking at your inventory or bank. You can just break it all down into a simple currency that all items share.
To go along with this we have a new conversion window that has some easy options to input all of the different convertible items that you want to break down into Refinement Points in one simple click. In addition, any item which can be converted, can be by using the drop down menu for that item. The refinement upgrade window will now have a nice clean interface where the player can slide a bar to determine how many Refinement Points they wish to add to the item. This bar will default at either the amount needed for the next level, or the maximum a player can deposit if less than a full level as we felt that is the most common action players would do. On top of that, you can now put in the full amount of RP needed to level up and upgrade all in a single button press. Nice and quick and easy!
And you may have noticed how I mentioned Identified Uncommon Equipment can be turned into RP and thought "Man, identifying all of my green drops will be such a pain!", well we are also adding an Identify All button which will take your ID scrolls and identify all the unidentified items in your inventory with one click.
Now because we switched to a currency and want to try for manageable amounts of currency. We reduced both the value of RP points of the items and the cost to upgrade items by a factor of 10. Example a black opal now awards 1,000 RP, but costs are lowered by the same factor as well. To be very clear, this does not change the cost of refinement at all! This simply reduces the values all around so we can keep the currency lower and have room for players to hold plenty of currency and grow the system in the future. We will give the exact progression charts in the technical details post as well so that you can all see for yourselves how it will be functioning.
Please Open Your Eyes!
Please be specific because I don't understand what you are trying to tell me.
My pretty specific question was:
Am I right that the cost to upgrade from Perfect -> Pure and Pure -> Trans will be increased for the RP rich people?
Perfect -> Pure Now: 622K RP + 5 SMOP + 3 Blue Stone Will be: 40K RP + 10 SMOP + 3 Greater Enchantment stones.
Pure -> Trans Now: 1088K RP + 5 SMOP + 3 Greater stone Will be: 55K RP + 15 SMOP + 6 Greater Enchantment stone.
RP is virtually no cost for me right now and probably in the future.
So effectively, for me:
Perfect -> Pure Now: 5 SMOP + 3 Blue Stone vs Will be: 10 SMOP + 3 Greater Enchantment stones.
Pure -> Trans Now: 5 SMOP + 3 Greater stone vs Will be: 15 SMOP + 6 Greater Enchantment stone.
The reason is I asked:
If I am right, I should upgrade from perfect to trans today or before mod 12b. Since today is the last day of 2xRP (which will be gone forever), I should do that today.
I think I am right but I could be missing something (such as what I read was a typo). Hence, I asked for "sanity check".
Post edited by plasticbat on
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,223Arc User
Am I right that the cost to upgrade from Perfect -> Pure and Pure -> Trans will be increased for the RP rich people?
Perfect -> Pure Now: 622K RP + 5 SMOP + 3 Blue Stone Will be: 40K RP + 10 SMOP + 3 Greater Enchantment stones.
Pure -> Trans Now: 1088K RP + 5 SMOP + 3 Greater stone Will be: 55K RP + 15 SMOP + 6 Greater Enchantment stone.
We can farm RP consistently through various utility enchantments and leadership. For me, the cost of RP is virtually zero. We cannot farm SMOP and Greater stone consistently from anything.
Since the demand of RP will be dramatically decreased, so will the price of RP.
Having to match enchantments, stones, and types of items created a massive amount of inventory to maintain and organize. In the end, this doesn't add to the experience as much as it takes away from it all. So we did just that, took it all away. Now players will use Refinement Points (thought you might like to keep your acronym) which will be a currency. Gemstones, Enchantments, Runestones, Artifacts, Artifact Equipment, Uncommon (Green) Equipment (must be identified), will all break down into Refinement Points which will be a currency on the inventory sheet. All of the refining will use Refinement Points for upgrades, along with reagents of course. This means you no longer have to manage all of those different item types and dread looking at your inventory or bank. You can just break it all down into a simple currency that all items share.
To go along with this we have a new conversion window that has some easy options to input all of the different convertible items that you want to break down into Refinement Points in one simple click. In addition, any item which can be converted, can be by using the drop down menu for that item. The refinement upgrade window will now have a nice clean interface where the player can slide a bar to determine how many Refinement Points they wish to add to the item. This bar will default at either the amount needed for the next level, or the maximum a player can deposit if less than a full level as we felt that is the most common action players would do. On top of that, you can now put in the full amount of RP needed to level up and upgrade all in a single button press. Nice and quick and easy!
And you may have noticed how I mentioned Identified Uncommon Equipment can be turned into RP and thought "Man, identifying all of my green drops will be such a pain!", well we are also adding an Identify All button which will take your ID scrolls and identify all the unidentified items in your inventory with one click.
Now because we switched to a currency and want to try for manageable amounts of currency. We reduced both the value of RP points of the items and the cost to upgrade items by a factor of 10. Example a black opal now awards 1,000 RP, but costs are lowered by the same factor as well. To be very clear, this does not change the cost of refinement at all! This simply reduces the values all around so we can keep the currency lower and have room for players to hold plenty of currency and grow the system in the future. We will give the exact progression charts in the technical details post as well so that you can all see for yourselves how it will be functioning.
Please Open Your Eyes!
Please be specific because I don't understand what you are trying to tell me.
My pretty specific question was:
Am I right that the cost to upgrade from Perfect -> Pure and Pure -> Trans will be increased for the RP rich people?
Perfect -> Pure Now: 622K RP + 5 SMOP + 3 Blue Stone Will be: 40K RP + 10 SMOP + 3 Greater Enchantment stones.
Pure -> Trans Now: 1088K RP + 5 SMOP + 3 Greater stone Will be: 55K RP + 15 SMOP + 6 Greater Enchantment stone.
RP is virtually no cost for me right now and probably in the future.
So effectively, for me:
Perfect -> Pure Now: 5 SMOP + 3 Blue Stone vs Will be: 10 SMOP + 3 Greater Enchantment stones.
Pure -> Trans Now: 5 SMOP + 3 Greater stone vs Will be: 15 SMOP + 6 Greater Enchantment stone.
The reason is I asked:
If I am right, I should upgrade from perfect to trans today or before mod 12b. Since today is the last day of 2xRP (which will be gone forever), I should do that today.
I think I am right but I could be missing something (such as what I read was a typo). Hence, I asked for "sanity check".
Yes, upgrade 10s to 12 and artifacts to mythic this weekend.
I think enchantment (not weapon or armour) 10 to 12 is cheaper in the future.
10 -> 11: Now: 622K RP + 2 SMOP + 4 Blue Mark with 5% chance Will be: 40K + 1 SMOP with 10% chance
11 -> 12: Now: 1088K RP + 4 SMOP + 3 Greater Marks with 3% chance Will be: 50K RP + 2 SMOP + 3 Greater Enchantment stones with 5% chance
I don't know where the technical detail about Artifact and Artifact weapon upgrade are. Were they posted somewhere?
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
if you can get your artifacts leveled now with feeder artifacts then it is cheaper now with 2x RP.
Your artifact gear is going to be the same cost to level now during 2x RP as it will be in 12.5 (but you need to use 2x RP), if you have one weapon set to feed into a new weapon set to feed then you need to do that before mod 12.5 because that aspect is going away and you will lose a lot more RP in 12.5 than you do right now. This is as it stands on the current preview build at least, hopefully we will see some changes to the return on RP in weapon sets in the new couple preview builds, going from getting 80% rp back to only getting the 30% that is purposed would suck majorly
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
if you can get your artifacts leveled now with feeder artifacts then it is cheaper now with 2x RP.
Your artifact gear is going to be the same cost to level now during 2x RP as it will be in 12.5 (but you need to use 2x RP), if you have one weapon set to feed into a new weapon set to feed then you need to do that before mod 12.5 because that aspect is going away and you will lose a lot more RP in 12.5 than you do right now. This is as it stands on the current preview build at least, hopefully we will see some changes to the return on RP in weapon sets in the new couple preview builds, going from getting 80% rp back to only getting the 30% that is purposed would suck majorly
Thanks for the information. I personally do not care much about RP portion of cost. I am more sensitive about GMOP, SMOP and Greater mark (will be greater Enchantment stone). Will those requirement be changed?
For the Artifact Weapon part, it is kind of bummer, I have a habit of dumping green gear (otherwise, wasted) into Account bound Artifact main/off hand and think one day I would dump that into an useful Artifact weapon. I know in the future the green junk will all be dumped into the RP pool. That means my "little project" is kind of silly now. No big deal for me though.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Sir, I think double stat enchanments should be 600 - 600 or maybe a tad higher, perhaps 620 - 620. With the new maximum ranks you effectively closed the gad between them and the single stat ones, making them less viable. Please take a look at that. I think 1000 for single start enchs is reasonable but the double stat ones really look lacking at rank 14.
@noworries#8859 Empowered runestones give OPs 96k extra HP. That is like 50% more than what they could stack before. That translate into more power, which translates into more powersharing, which translates into OP being more mandatory in parties.
Future content gets balanced on parties with an insane powersharing OP, that content then becomes unrewarding to do without one, making OP mandatory in groups, which infuriates players (same way they are infruiated because t9g takes 1 dps 4 support)
Then to fix that OP gets a nerf, then all the OP players become infruiated for spending all their resources on getting insane amount of HP.
Just stop it while you can. Either nerf the powersharing, or cut down on the amount of HP these stones provide, so the advantages of picking them are equal to the disadvantages.
So, basically, if I correctly understand everything about this update, we will have to upgrade our enchants up to 14th lvl, 13th in case of weapon and armor enchants, and we'll just receive similar to current stats, meanwhile spending millions of ads and thousands of Zen? If the bonding runestones are just getting nerf for ~30% and all othe stones gets equal buff to cover that loss? And where here is a new gameplay experience? The new way to upgrade?
That is just a small change, but we'll have to spent a lot of money to get to the exact place where we are now. If the bonds would have changed as promised first in that announcement it would be great for new gaming experience and the use of alternatives. But now it just looks as devs want to suck out our money and give us literally nothing, and everyone's happy with that? It all looks like the bonding nerf was a plan to concentrate the attention on irrelevant issue, while the main purpose was anything but giving us, the player community, anything interesting and conceptually new.
I hope, that everyone would understand and support my idea of banning this "bonding nerf", and to make dev's produce some actual new gaming experience!
You might say it become easier for new players to upgrade. In the mechanics - definitely yes, to r12 enchants. But this will provide them similar gaming experience as if they would have upgraded to r10 now. That is not the purpose of the game, but new playable areas, dungeons, raids, characters and pvp! I would have spent any amount if I would've been given away to increase my power, stats and extend my gameplay experience, but spending thousands to get nowhere? Is that how we should accept what devs through at us?
Artifacts and Artifact gear should all give ~60-80% of the rp put in. The currently proposed returns will make it very expensive to switch gear and act as a major disincentive to upgrade weapons/neck/belts or change artifacts unless absolutely necessary.
Also, making Pure and Transcendant upgrades more expensive is a head scratcher. Raising the # of Marks for ranks below Perfect makes sense with getting rid of the duplicate Enchant requirement, but there was never a second Enchantment required to make Pure and Trans. Requiring extra SMoPs for them is not compensating for missing reagents, it's just a flat (rather large) cost increase to upgrade.
Otherwise, you could lower mark costs like when Superior Marks were first introduced. Keep Greaters at 25,000, lower Superiors to 50,000, and set the new Ultimate Marks to 100,000.
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someonediesMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,257Arc User
@noworries#8859 Are you planning to do something with class artifacts?
Do you care about community? Let's us discard them inline with other refinement.
Class Artifact (and account wide reclaimable artifact from pack) has no RP value. They cannot be used as feeder right now. If that is inline with normal Artifact, you can generate infinite RP from nothing. I don't get what that has to do about 'caring the community'. You cannot do that now and you will not be able to do it.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Class Artifact (and account wide reclaimable artifact from pack) has no RP value. They cannot be used as feeder right now. If that is inline with normal Artifact, you can generate infinite RP from nothing. I don't get what that has to do about 'caring the community'. You cannot do that now and you will not be able to do it.
Well, the reason it can't be done now is that each green feeder artifact costs 15-40k AD not during 2xRP and spikes to 65-120k AD during 2xRP, and that the most prevalent way to rank up artifacts involves 6 of them per final artifact.
Under the current system, allowing class sigils to be fed would have completely tanked the market for feeder artifacts.
The new system is also going to do that. Rank 1 green artifacts are going to go from being worth 15-120k AD to being utterly, entirely worthless, giving less RP than the median gemstone.
Yes, it would be abusable (and a tedious way to generate infinite RP) if you could walk up to the reclaim vendor, grab a full set of Rank 1 Green Sigils, and instantly salvage them all for RP.
It would not at all be abusable to be able to salvage a mythic class sigil that you no longer wanted. Where's the threshold? Idk. Make them worth...less by whatever R1 green artifact is worth, RP-wise? Leave the values the same but only allow salvaging once they're blue+?
With feeding no longer a thing, there will no longer be a way to get more out of them than you put in, so it would solely be a way to reclaim some portion of past effort.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,223Arc User
Class Artifact (and account wide reclaimable artifact from pack) has no RP value. They cannot be used as feeder right now. If that is inline with normal Artifact, you can generate infinite RP from nothing. I don't get what that has to do about 'caring the community'. You cannot do that now and you will not be able to do it.
Well, the reason it can't be done now is that each green feeder artifact costs 15-40k AD not during 2xRP and spikes to 65-120k AD during 2xRP, and that the most prevalent way to rank up artifacts involves 6 of them per final artifact.
Under the current system, allowing class sigils to be fed would have completely tanked the market for feeder artifacts.
The new system is also going to do that. Rank 1 green artifacts are going to go from being worth 15-120k AD to being utterly, entirely worthless, giving less RP than the median gemstone.
Yes, it would be abusable (and a tedious way to generate infinite RP) if you could walk up to the reclaim vendor, grab a full set of Rank 1 Green Sigils, and instantly salvage them all for RP.
It would not at all be abusable to be able to salvage a mythic class sigil that you no longer wanted. Where's the threshold? Idk. Make them worth...less by whatever R1 green artifact is worth, RP-wise? Leave the values the same but only allow salvaging once they're blue+?
With feeding no longer a thing, there will no longer be a way to get more out of them than you put in, so it would solely be a way to reclaim some portion of past effort.
I put reclaimable class Artifact and reclaimable pack Artifact in the same basket because they have the same reclaimable feature. If they solve/allow one, they should solve/allow both. The reclaimable pack Artifact comes as Epic.
By the way, are they going to change RP refinement number for upgrading Artifact? Right now, it needs 10 million RP to upgrade to mystic. If the salvage value of a mystic Artifact is only 150K, I don't think salvaging a mystic Artifact is advisable. With loadout purpose, mix and match stat purpose for counter any Cryptic's future changes, destroying a mystic Artifact for just 150K RP is not advisable in my opinion.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Currently the tiers line up like this: Potency - Enchanting Stone Normal - None Greater - Normal (should have been given a name such as "Average" to allow querying it on the auction house)
Maybe rename "normal" items to "Standard"? Minor mark of potency, lesser mark of potency, standard mark of potency, greater mark of potency, etc etc. It would make finding them on the auction house much easier. Same with various enchantments.
Actual think I will go with "Moderate" as it seems to fill in the power level well.
Class Artifact (and account wide reclaimable artifact from pack) has no RP value. They cannot be used as feeder right now. If that is inline with normal Artifact, you can generate infinite RP from nothing. I don't get what that has to do about 'caring the community'. You cannot do that now and you will not be able to do it.
Well, the reason it can't be done now is that each green feeder artifact costs 15-40k AD not during 2xRP and spikes to 65-120k AD during 2xRP, and that the most prevalent way to rank up artifacts involves 6 of them per final artifact.
Under the current system, allowing class sigils to be fed would have completely tanked the market for feeder artifacts.
The new system is also going to do that. Rank 1 green artifacts are going to go from being worth 15-120k AD to being utterly, entirely worthless, giving less RP than the median gemstone.
Yes, it would be abusable (and a tedious way to generate infinite RP) if you could walk up to the reclaim vendor, grab a full set of Rank 1 Green Sigils, and instantly salvage them all for RP.
It would not at all be abusable to be able to salvage a mythic class sigil that you no longer wanted. Where's the threshold? Idk. Make them worth...less by whatever R1 green artifact is worth, RP-wise? Leave the values the same but only allow salvaging once they're blue+?
With feeding no longer a thing, there will no longer be a way to get more out of them than you put in, so it would solely be a way to reclaim some portion of past effort.
They should allow class artifacts but only epic and above. That way you don't just get free RP infinitely reclaimable.
Alright @noworries didn't answer what I said so I'll translate it into a question : why aren't Armor Enchantment weapon damage based scaling with anything ? It's the same mod 12 prebuff Weapon Enchant error.
By the way, are they going to change RP refinement number for upgrading Artifact? Right now, it needs 10 million RP to upgrade to mystic. If the salvage value of a mystic Artifact is only 150K, I don't think salvaging a mystic Artifact is advisable.
I agree that they should handle pack reclaimable artifacts in the same way they handle class sigils -- I just think they should probably allow any of them to be salvaged for RP once they're orange or mythic. There's no longer going to be a possible way to get back more than was invested, and like you have noted, at a mere 150k, it's a pretty bad decision to ever salvage a mythic artifact.
I think there's room to improve on that, but I understand the hesitation to make it worth a massive amount compared to the new costs of other things.
10 million RP for mythic is going to be reduced by 10 in-line with RP currency values being universally reduced by 10, and then halved again along with Artifact equipment's needed values being halved.
This means that 10 million RP needed will become ~500000 RP needed.
Currently, refining your old mythic artifact into a matching green you now decided you prefer gives you 7,853,400/10,469,635 RP NOT during 2xRP, or instantly puts you ~50% over what you need for mythic during 2xRP.
I understand and appreciate the many advantages of simplifying the many unnecessary complexities of the existing refinement and type-matching system, but this option was pretty cool, and felt like it correctly reflected the astronomical investment required to bring an artifact to mythic under the existing system.
In return for that investment, I now forever have 1 Artifact of Power at mythic. I can freely switch which specific Artifact of Power that is during any 2xRP event, paying only the (not itself insignificant) mark and pres ward cost of doing so.
Under the new system, salvaging a mythic artifact, instead of giving me 75%-100% of a full matching artifact's progression to mythic, will give me ~30% of what will be needed to rank an artifact to mythic.
It's...better than salvaging a mythic for 6k AD, I guess, but it feels like that will almost always be a poor decision.
Alright @noworries didn't answer what I said so I'll translate it into a question : why aren't Armor Enchantment weapon damage based scaling with anything ? It's the same mod 12 prebuff Weapon Enchant error.
That's on the list of changes coming eventually (per the dev comments on the original weapon enchant preview thread). I honestly expected it to come in 12b, but it looks like it's on the docket for a different mod.
I like the new RP system interface and use. A few suggestions after playing with the new RP system on test server.
Currently on test, the Refinement Point Conversion and Identify All icons are accessed through the Settings menu on your bags. Can you move these icons to be next to the Settings icon instead of accessed through it? It would enable people to access the icons easier on the PC and it would also be more intuitive when someone looks at their bags that they had the two options available.
On the Refinement Point Conversion window, it does not show you a tally of your refinement points that you are converting. Nor does it let you see how many points you have stored. Nor does it let you see if you had any critical successes. These are all shown in the interface if you are refining a specific item. But they are missing if you are just converting items. At least, I did not see it when I was converting RP when accessed through the bag's Settings icon.
When you are adding RP to items that have multiple levels, you can only add RP one level at a time. This will make it tedious to add all the levels needed for artifacts and artifact equipment. Can we change it so that it allows us to add RP for multiple levels up to the skill check?
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starheretic70Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 52Arc User
running like hamsters in a wheel this is not what I call improvement for a game more stats, but dungeons are not worth doing except the last 2 : fbi and tong the other dungeons are for cheap salvage g.grym, Black Ice domi, stronghold pvp are not really popular foundry maps arent really worth exploring pvp domi is out, for one reason, on the 1st week of rk14, many rich players will have them (not me) and they will go pvp and crush, so forget that.
is there some part of game that I dont know that is fun to do ? so, more stats to do what in game, farm fbi and tong ?
bored already.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
They should allow class artifacts but only epic and above. That way you don't just get free RP infinitely reclaimable.
Even simpler: Make any rank 1 artifact just give 0 RP. That way you basically only get credit for the RPs put into it, not the artifact itself. This would allow people to recycle "infiitely reclaimable" class sigils and the red dragon one.
Hoping for improvements...
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
Currently the tiers line up like this: Potency - Enchanting Stone Normal - None Greater - Normal (should have been given a name such as "Average" to allow querying it on the auction house)
Maybe rename "normal" items to "Standard"? Minor mark of potency, lesser mark of potency, standard mark of potency, greater mark of potency, etc etc. It would make finding them on the auction house much easier. Same with various enchantments.
Actual think I will go with "Moderate" as it seems to fill in the power level well.
IDK, moderate doesn't seem to fit. Lesser, 'Moderate", Greater? Nah... Lesser, Normal/Standard, Greater sounds better imo
I mean, L Mark is a lesser version of a mark, G Mark is a greater version of a mark. So, there should be a normal/std version rather than a medium one right?
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someonediesMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,257Arc User
This thread will contain the different technical numbers that are really needed to understand how the new system will look and feel. I apologize for the layout of the tables, it was what the forums would allow.
Progression Charts:
Azure: Critical Strike Dark: Movement - Armor Penetration - Life Steal Radiant: Power Silvery: Recovery - Deflection
Rank 1
Rank 2
Rank 3
Rank 4
Rank 5
Rank 6
Rank 7
Rank 8
Rank 9
Rank 10
Rank 11
Rank 12
Rank 13
Rank 14
25
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75
100
150
200
250
300
400
500
600
700
850
1000
Brutal: Movement - Power - Critical Strike - Defense Cruel: Movement - Power - Recovery - Defense - Deflection Savage: Critical Strike - Armor Penetration - Life Steal Vicious: Armor Penetration - Power - Deflection - Life Steal Wicked: Armor Penetration - Recovery - Defense - Movement
Rank 1
Rank 2
Rank 3
Rank 4
Rank 5
Rank 6
Rank 7
Rank 8
Rank 9
Rank 10
Rank 11
Rank 12
Rank 13
Rank 14
15
30
50
75
100
125
150
200
250
300
350
425
500
575
Brutal: XP Bonus Cruel: Glory Bonus Savage: Gold Bonus - XP Bonus Vicious: Glory Bonus - XP Bonus Wicked: Gold Bonus
Rank 1
Rank 2
Rank 3
Rank 4
Rank 5
Rank 6
Rank 7
Rank 8
Rank 9
Rank 10
Rank 11
Rank 12
Rank 13
Rank 14
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4
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9
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13
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Azure: XP Bonus Radiant: Gold Bonus Silvery: Glory Bonus Training: XP Bonus
Rank 1
Rank 2
Rank 3
Rank 4
Rank 5
Rank 6
Rank 7
Rank 8
Rank 9
Rank 10
Rank 11
Rank 12
Rank 13
Rank 14
6
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Black Ice: Power - Defense Gigantic: Critical Strike - Deflection Demonic: Armor Penetration Draconic: Armor Penetration
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Black Ice: Critical Strike - Recovery - Deflection - Life Steal Demonic: Power - Critical Strike - Deflection - Life Steal Draconic: Power - Recovery - Defense - Life Steal Gigantic: Recovery - Armor Penetration - Defense
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Brutal: Hit Points Savage: Hit Points Wicked: Hit Points
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Draconic: Hit Points Demonic: Hit Points
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Radiant: Hit Points
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Gigantic: Hit Points
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I'm worried about total values of double and triple stat enchants.
Also HP values of double/triple stat enchants are incorrect. Defensive: Brutal, Savage, Wicked: 2200 HP = 1.38% Main stat(Loss?), Second stat: 1.44%; Total: 2.81%
Also HP values of triple stat enchants: Defensive: Demonic, Draconic: 2400HP = 1.50% Main stat(Loss?), Second/Third 0.875%; Total: 3.25% Gigantic: 1300HP = 0.81%(Loss?), Second/Third 0.875%; Total 3.44%
Buff triple stat enchants HP value to Black Ice (that's correct: 1.75%, 0.875%, 0.875%; Total: 3.50%) And buff double stat enchants overall.
Single stat enchants do not have this issue: Azure: 1000 defense (2.5%) Radiant: 4000HP (2.5%)
Thanks
Dead 🔪
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited September 2017
The new system is very friendly, it made me like it, only bad thing i found so far is the upgrade level by level of artifact equipment, too many bongs.
When it comes to the new R13 Weapon and armour enchants i think they are receiving a wrong approach, there are certain enchantments that nobody uses in spite of having been reworked and what the new R13 are is simply a improved version of R12, if the R12 is bad so will the R13 be. What i mean is and approach to this:
-Flaming: Dot is not fast enough; -Plague: Dot is not fast enough; -Bilethorn: Dot is not fast enough; -Lifedrinker: Life steal enough to survive can be achieved very easily and severity is not needed higher than it is.
-Soulforged: Weak healing, no point in progressing past lesser; -Bloodtheft: Healing and damage miserable; -Briartwine: Damage ridiculously low, probably the worst of all; -Thunderhead/ Frostburn: Effect almost unoticeable, not even close to be worth in comparisson to others; -Shadowclad: Has a big "nothing" sometimes, what can be quite good for a while can also be terrible for another. -BarkShield: In pvp even the tiniest hit can remove a stack, while it's nthing amazing against big hitters as well.
This doesn't mean that in the future i will not be impossible to rework lower ranks, more like "there is a viable rank of this enchantment now".
Edit: Barkshield is bugged and is negating all damage taken. Also vorpal and dread are not improving much as other enchantments, specially considering crit severity will not be as effective in high values of crit severity and combat advantage combined, at least 10% increase instead of 5 is not too much.
Comments
Dead🔪PTR
Rank 60 Equipment costs ~ 230000 PR
and Discard button gives = 46467 RP
Same with artifacts:
500000 RP became 150024 RP
@noworries#8859 Penalty should be at least 60%.
Dead🔪My pretty specific question was:
Am I right that the cost to upgrade from Perfect -> Pure and Pure -> Trans will be increased for the RP rich people?
Perfect -> Pure
Now: 622K RP + 5 SMOP + 3 Blue Stone
Will be: 40K RP + 10 SMOP + 3 Greater Enchantment stones.
Pure -> Trans
Now: 1088K RP + 5 SMOP + 3 Greater stone
Will be: 55K RP + 15 SMOP + 6 Greater Enchantment stone.
RP is virtually no cost for me right now and probably in the future.
So effectively, for me:
Perfect -> Pure
Now: 5 SMOP + 3 Blue Stone vs Will be: 10 SMOP + 3 Greater Enchantment stones.
Pure -> Trans
Now: 5 SMOP + 3 Greater stone vs Will be: 15 SMOP + 6 Greater Enchantment stone.
The reason is I asked:
If I am right, I should upgrade from perfect to trans today or before mod 12b. Since today is the last day of 2xRP (which will be gone forever), I should do that today.
I think I am right but I could be missing something (such as what I read was a typo). Hence, I asked for "sanity check".
10 -> 11:
Now: 622K RP + 2 SMOP + 4 Blue Mark with 5% chance
Will be: 40K + 1 SMOP with 10% chance
11 -> 12:
Now: 1088K RP + 4 SMOP + 3 Greater Marks with 3% chance
Will be: 50K RP + 2 SMOP + 3 Greater Enchantment stones with 5% chance
I don't know where the technical detail about Artifact and Artifact weapon upgrade are.
Were they posted somewhere?
Your artifact gear is going to be the same cost to level now during 2x RP as it will be in 12.5 (but you need to use 2x RP), if you have one weapon set to feed into a new weapon set to feed then you need to do that before mod 12.5 because that aspect is going away and you will lose a lot more RP in 12.5 than you do right now. This is as it stands on the current preview build at least, hopefully we will see some changes to the return on RP in weapon sets in the new couple preview builds, going from getting 80% rp back to only getting the 30% that is purposed would suck majorly
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Will it be converted into the new type of stones?
For example, Greater Mark of Power will become new Greater Stone?
Or it will become useless trash at one moment?
For the Artifact Weapon part, it is kind of bummer, I have a habit of dumping green gear (otherwise, wasted) into Account bound Artifact main/off hand and think one day I would dump that into an useful Artifact weapon. I know in the future the green junk will all be dumped into the RP pool. That means my "little project" is kind of silly now. No big deal for me though.
Sir, I think double stat enchanments should be 600 - 600 or maybe a tad higher, perhaps 620 - 620. With the new maximum ranks you effectively closed the gad between them and the single stat ones, making them less viable. Please take a look at that. I think 1000 for single start enchs is reasonable but the double stat ones really look lacking at rank 14.
Empowered runestones give OPs 96k extra HP. That is like 50% more than what they could stack before.
That translate into more power, which translates into more powersharing, which translates into OP being more mandatory in parties.
Future content gets balanced on parties with an insane powersharing OP, that content then becomes unrewarding to do without one, making OP mandatory in groups, which infuriates players (same way they are infruiated because t9g takes 1 dps 4 support)
Then to fix that OP gets a nerf, then all the OP players become infruiated for spending all their resources on getting insane amount of HP.
Just stop it while you can. Either nerf the powersharing, or cut down on the amount of HP these stones provide, so the advantages of picking them are equal to the disadvantages.
That is just a small change, but we'll have to spent a lot of money to get to the exact place where we are now. If the bonds would have changed as promised first in that announcement it would be great for new gaming experience and the use of alternatives. But now it just looks as devs want to suck out our money and give us literally nothing, and everyone's happy with that? It all looks like the bonding nerf was a plan to concentrate the attention on irrelevant issue, while the main purpose was anything but giving us, the player community, anything interesting and conceptually new.
I hope, that everyone would understand and support my idea of banning this "bonding nerf", and to make dev's produce some actual new gaming experience!
You might say it become easier for new players to upgrade. In the mechanics - definitely yes, to r12 enchants. But this will provide them similar gaming experience as if they would have upgraded to r10 now. That is not the purpose of the game, but new playable areas, dungeons, raids, characters and pvp! I would have spent any amount if I would've been given away to increase my power, stats and extend my gameplay experience, but spending thousands to get nowhere? Is that how we should accept what devs through at us?
Also, making Pure and Transcendant upgrades more expensive is a head scratcher. Raising the # of Marks for ranks below Perfect makes sense with getting rid of the duplicate Enchant requirement, but there was never a second Enchantment required to make Pure and Trans. Requiring extra SMoPs for them is not compensating for missing reagents, it's just a flat (rather large) cost increase to upgrade.
Otherwise, you could lower mark costs like when Superior Marks were first introduced. Keep Greaters at 25,000, lower Superiors to 50,000, and set the new Ultimate Marks to 100,000.
Dead🔪If that is inline with normal Artifact, you can generate infinite RP from nothing.
I don't get what that has to do about 'caring the community'.
You cannot do that now and you will not be able to do it.
Under the current system, allowing class sigils to be fed would have completely tanked the market for feeder artifacts.
The new system is also going to do that. Rank 1 green artifacts are going to go from being worth 15-120k AD to being utterly, entirely worthless, giving less RP than the median gemstone.
Yes, it would be abusable (and a tedious way to generate infinite RP) if you could walk up to the reclaim vendor, grab a full set of Rank 1 Green Sigils, and instantly salvage them all for RP.
It would not at all be abusable to be able to salvage a mythic class sigil that you no longer wanted. Where's the threshold? Idk. Make them worth...less by whatever R1 green artifact is worth, RP-wise? Leave the values the same but only allow salvaging once they're blue+?
With feeding no longer a thing, there will no longer be a way to get more out of them than you put in, so it would solely be a way to reclaim some portion of past effort.
By the way, are they going to change RP refinement number for upgrading Artifact?
Right now, it needs 10 million RP to upgrade to mystic.
If the salvage value of a mystic Artifact is only 150K, I don't think salvaging a mystic Artifact is advisable.
With loadout purpose, mix and match stat purpose for counter any Cryptic's future changes, destroying a mystic Artifact for just 150K RP is not advisable in my opinion.
I think there's room to improve on that, but I understand the hesitation to make it worth a massive amount compared to the new costs of other things.
10 million RP for mythic is going to be reduced by 10 in-line with RP currency values being universally reduced by 10, and then halved again along with Artifact equipment's needed values being halved.
This means that 10 million RP needed will become ~500000 RP needed.
Currently, refining your old mythic artifact into a matching green you now decided you prefer gives you 7,853,400/10,469,635 RP NOT during 2xRP, or instantly puts you ~50% over what you need for mythic during 2xRP.
I understand and appreciate the many advantages of simplifying the many unnecessary complexities of the existing refinement and type-matching system, but this option was pretty cool, and felt like it correctly reflected the astronomical investment required to bring an artifact to mythic under the existing system.
In return for that investment, I now forever have 1 Artifact of Power at mythic. I can freely switch which specific Artifact of Power that is during any 2xRP event, paying only the (not itself insignificant) mark and pres ward cost of doing so.
Under the new system, salvaging a mythic artifact, instead of giving me 75%-100% of a full matching artifact's progression to mythic, will give me ~30% of what will be needed to rank an artifact to mythic.
It's...better than salvaging a mythic for 6k AD, I guess, but it feels like that will almost always be a poor decision.
Currently on test, the Refinement Point Conversion and Identify All icons are accessed through the Settings menu on your bags. Can you move these icons to be next to the Settings icon instead of accessed through it? It would enable people to access the icons easier on the PC and it would also be more intuitive when someone looks at their bags that they had the two options available.
On the Refinement Point Conversion window, it does not show you a tally of your refinement points that you are converting. Nor does it let you see how many points you have stored. Nor does it let you see if you had any critical successes. These are all shown in the interface if you are refining a specific item. But they are missing if you are just converting items. At least, I did not see it when I was converting RP when accessed through the bag's Settings icon.
When you are adding RP to items that have multiple levels, you can only add RP one level at a time. This will make it tedious to add all the levels needed for artifacts and artifact equipment. Can we change it so that it allows us to add RP for multiple levels up to the skill check?
this is not what I call improvement for a game
more stats, but dungeons are not worth doing except the last 2 : fbi and tong
the other dungeons are for cheap salvage
g.grym, Black Ice domi, stronghold pvp are not really popular
foundry maps arent really worth exploring
pvp domi is out, for one reason, on the 1st week of rk14, many rich players will have them (not me) and they will go pvp and crush, so forget that.
is there some part of game that I dont know that is fun to do ?
so, more stats to do what in game, farm fbi and tong ?
bored already.
I mean, L Mark is a lesser version of a mark, G Mark is a greater version of a mark. So, there should be a normal/std version rather than a medium one right?
Offensive:
Brutal, Savage, Wicked, Cruel, Vicious:
First/Second stat: 1.44%; Total:2.88%
Also HP values of double/triple stat enchants are incorrect.
Defensive:
Brutal, Savage, Wicked:
2200 HP = 1.38% Main stat(Loss?), Second stat: 1.44%; Total: 2.81%
Also HP values of triple stat enchants:
Defensive:
Demonic, Draconic:
2400HP = 1.50% Main stat(Loss?), Second/Third 0.875%; Total: 3.25%
Gigantic:
1300HP = 0.81%(Loss?), Second/Third 0.875%; Total 3.44%
Buff triple stat enchants HP value to Black Ice (that's correct: 1.75%, 0.875%, 0.875%; Total: 3.50%)
And buff double stat enchants overall.
Single stat enchants do not have this issue:
Azure: 1000 defense (2.5%)
Radiant: 4000HP (2.5%)
Thanks
Dead🔪When it comes to the new R13 Weapon and armour enchants i think they are receiving a wrong approach, there are certain enchantments that nobody uses in spite of having been reworked and what the new R13 are is simply a improved version of R12, if the R12 is bad so will the R13 be. What i mean is and approach to this:
-Flaming: Dot is not fast enough;
-Plague: Dot is not fast enough;
-Bilethorn: Dot is not fast enough;
-Lifedrinker: Life steal enough to survive can be achieved very easily and severity is not needed higher than it is.
-Soulforged: Weak healing, no point in progressing past lesser;
-Bloodtheft: Healing and damage miserable;
-Briartwine: Damage ridiculously low, probably the worst of all;
-Thunderhead/ Frostburn: Effect almost unoticeable, not even close to be worth in comparisson to others;
-Shadowclad: Has a big "nothing" sometimes, what can be quite good for a while can also be terrible for another.
-BarkShield: In pvp even the tiniest hit can remove a stack, while it's nthing amazing against big hitters as well.
This doesn't mean that in the future i will not be impossible to rework lower ranks, more like "there is a viable rank of this enchantment now".
Edit:
Barkshield is bugged and is negating all damage taken.
Also vorpal and dread are not improving much as other enchantments, specially considering crit severity will not be as effective in high values of crit severity and combat advantage combined, at least 10% increase instead of 5 is not too much.