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Neverwinter M11b General Feedback

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  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    What you're describing—needing the 2nd recipe book to craft items from the 1st book—that was a mistake and the designer who implemented the store has made the correction, it should be updated in the most recent or next preview build.

    Whoa! Yes, you are correct - the fix is already in - I just checked. Much appreciated..

    Hoping for improvements...
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited April 2017


    Masterwork bug 1 - typo

    The text says Marketplace 14 - I guess that should be Stronghold 14, right ?

    Masterwork bug 2 - bought recipies remain available
    I refer again to the screenshot above - I have already bought Masterwork Alchemy recipes III, but they remain available, as if I could buy them again.

    Masterwork bug 3 - vermilion dyes

    The crimson and emerald dyes are also called Vermilion.
    Post edited by adinosii on
    Hoping for improvements...
  • vida44vida44 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 667 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    @terramak

    I'm not sure if this is as intended but I was able to start the SHS (not the PvP) event twice during one timer. The first one failed at wave 4.




    Also, after the second fail this keeps showing all the time :/



    I was able to donate some things to the pile just before it showed the fail message.
  • vida44vida44 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 667 Arc User
    This needs fixing:


  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I have been looking at the new mastercraft armors, specifically the Titansteel DC PvE armour, and there are two points I am somewhat concerned about.

    Now, the armor pieces give a decent boost to some of my stats - one example:

    I am currently using 2 pieces of Elemental Drowcraft and 2 pieces of Elemental Dragonflight. Swithcing to Titansteel would give me something like +27000 HP, +2000 Power, +700 Critical Strike +500 Defense and -500 Recovery.

    It's the last stat that concerns me. The Titansteel gear is really low on Recovery, which is pretty important for DCs. Only one out of 8 PvE pieces has Recovery (but actually, most of the PvP pieces have that stat).

    Is this intentional or an oversight ?

    My second concern, however, is that there is very little reason for anyone to bother with the Masterwork gear at all, considering how good the items sold by the Mysterious Merchant are.

    Consider for example this:

    When you add the special +200 Defense bonus, the total stats for this item are actually higher than for the Masterwork Piece, and this item only costs some guild marks .... not a massive amount of resources and effort like the Masterwork gear.

    So, is there any reason at all why anyone would want the Masterwork armor? Right now it just looks like a huge waste of time and effort.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • gankdalf#8991 gankdalf Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 930 Arc User
    @astrahal

    Dont you need Mastercraft II before you can do Mastercraft III stuff?.... Might be a bug on PTR because I purchased the recipes without having II unlocked.

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    It's not a bug, but a preview feature, I believe.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I have been checking out the the temporary vendors and structures. Some feedback:


    The resource-generating structures are a welcome addition. I am in a 145+person, Rank 18 guild, and I expect we will be running the Gem-generating one non-stop - we can easily afford the resources that takes.

    Lower-ranked or smaller guilds will probably be more interested in the Influence or Gold-generating ones. However, I am a little concerned that the cost of creating them may be a bit high for the smallest guilds, where those structures would be most useful.

    The temporary structures selling Masterwork resources and such are fine. No changes needed there.

    The only real issue is with the Mysterious Merchant....well, actually there are two issues.


    First issue is that the armor pieces he sells are just so good that there is next to no reason to bother with the Masterwork armor.
    I posted this earlier, but I feel I need to repeat this. Compare those two items:


    Then add up the stats (dividing HPs by 4)

    Masterwork: 3673+1290+860+790 = 6613
    Mysterious Merchant: 3414+1002+1002+1020 = 6438

    Its close, but...keep in mind that armor stats only matter when you are in combat, and then you will be facing at least one enemy, so the special +200 Defense bonus kicks in, bringing the total to at least 6638

    That's higher than the Masterwork item. So, I ask again, why would anyone bother with masterwork when you can get items with higher stats just from a vendor? And why does the Masterwork piece have a higher IL than the vendor-bought one which has higher stats?

    My suggestion would be to give the Masterwork armor some appealing 4-piece set bonus - that would encourage people to get the whole set and make the Masterwork set clearly superior to the mix-and-match items sold by the Mysterious Merchant.

    Quite frankly, it simply does not make any sense to me that the Masterwork armor does not have a set bonus.- every other armor set does.

    Adding a decent set bonus would also make the Masterwork armor pieces comparable to the Vivified Relic gear, which is fair, considering the cost and effort required to make them. Otherwise what will happen is basically that nobody will bother with the Masterwork armor, and all the effort that has gone into their design will be wasted. You could go the other route and just nerf the Mysterious Merchant items, but that would make them non-interesting as such.

    There is a second issue. I only noticed that once the temporary structures were changed to last for a week. The issue is that the Mysterious Merchant has random items in his inventory, and they only change when he is "summoned". Now, regardless of whether you are looking for a particular item to decorate the Great Hall or a particular armor piece, this will mean that you might have to wait for weeks, even months to get the particular piece you want.

    Of course, people will find a way around that. Some alliances will have a Mysterious Merchant in multiple guilds, so people can simply jump between strongholds to fin a merchant that carries the items they are interested in. Other guilds will offer their service (for a fee, of course), allowing people to join for 10 minutes to buy from the merchant. This will work, but it is annoying, in particular from a RPG-perspective. I don't like the idea of leaving my guild, even if it is just for 10 minutes for a shopping trip.

    So, how about having the inventory of the Mysterious Merchant randomized more frequently - once per day, for example?
    Hoping for improvements...
  • darthtzarrdarthtzarr Member Posts: 1,003 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    I have been checking out the the temporary vendors and structures. Some feedback:


    The resource-generating structures are a welcome addition. I am in a 145+person, Rank 18 guild, and I expect we will be running the Gem-generating one non-stop - we can easily afford the resources that takes.

    Lower-ranked or smaller guilds will probably be more interested in the Influence or Gold-generating ones. However, I am a little concerned that the cost of creating them may be a bit high for the smallest guilds, where those structures would be most useful.

    The temporary structures selling Masterwork resources and such are fine. No changes needed there.

    The only real issue is with the Mysterious Merchant....well, actually there are two issues.


    First issue is that the armor pieces he sells are just so good that there is next to no reason to bother with the Masterwork armor.
    I posted this earlier, but I feel I need to repeat this. Compare those two items:


    Then add up the stats (dividing HPs by 4)

    Masterwork: 3673+1290+860+790 = 6613
    Mysterious Merchant: 3414+1002+1002+1020 = 6438

    Its close, but...keep in mind that armor stats only matter when you are in combat, and then you will be facing at least one enemy, so the special +200 Defense bonus kicks in, bringing the total to at least 6638

    That's higher than the Masterwork item. So, I ask again, why would anyone bother with masterwork when you can get items with higher stats just from a vendor? And why does the Masterwork piece have a higher IL than the vendor-bought one which has higher stats?

    My suggestion would be to give the Masterwork armor some appealing 4-piece set bonus - that would encourage people to get the whole set and make the Masterwork set clearly superior to the mix-and-match items sold by the Mysterious Merchant.

    Quite frankly, it simply does not make any sense to me that the Masterwork armor does not have a set bonus.- every other armor set does.

    Adding a decent set bonus would also make the Masterwork armor pieces comparable to the Vivified Relic gear, which is fair, considering the cost and effort required to make them. Otherwise what will happen is basically that nobody will bother with the Masterwork armor, and all the effort that has gone into their design will be wasted. You could go the other route and just nerf the Mysterious Merchant items, but that would make them non-interesting as such.

    There is a second issue. I only noticed that once the temporary structures were changed to last for a week. The issue is that the Mysterious Merchant has random items in his inventory, and they only change when he is "summoned". Now, regardless of whether you are looking for a particular item to decorate the Great Hall or a particular armor piece, this will mean that you might have to wait for weeks, even months to get the particular piece you want.

    Of course, people will find a way around that. Some alliances will have a Mysterious Merchant in multiple guilds, so people can simply jump between strongholds to fin a merchant that carries the items they are interested in. Other guilds will offer their service (for a fee, of course), allowing people to join for 10 minutes to buy from the merchant. This will work, but it is annoying, in particular from a RPG-perspective. I don't like the idea of leaving my guild, even if it is just for 10 minutes for a shopping trip.

    So, how about having the inventory of the Mysterious Merchant randomized more frequently - once per day, for example?

    The only thing the masterwork armor has going for it, is that it doesn't require up-keep. It is an invisible bonus to the set compared to Vivified, and is very minor, but it exists. I just don't see masterwork armor being used by anyone who already owns relic, and I really don't see anything competing with that specific set of boots.

    I think the main issue with the boots is that they are class-less. This means they either need to give it the same Defense as a Paladin/GF boot piece, and make it good for squishies, or give it the same Defense as CW armor, and make it bad for tankies.

    Signature [WIP] - tyvm John

  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    adinosii said:

    So, how about having the inventory of the Mysterious Merchant randomized more frequently - once per day, for example?

    I guess there is also the question of does the Mysterious Merchant show the same inventory to every character that visits her for an entire week, or would she offer different items if I were to check her with multiple alts. The gear items are all BtA at first, so there'd be no issue with transferring a desired item, and the SH decor pieces don't matter who adds them to the warehouse.

    Otherwise, I agree that a week is a pretty long time for daily players to be faced with the same 5 items.

    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    The mysterrious merchant will offer diferent gear in each allied stronghold.

  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    The mysterrious merchant will offer diferent gear in each allied stronghold.

    Yes, but the vendor may be too expensive for the small guilds - the main issue being the 60.000 Gems, of course. I think it is more likely that only the top guilds will create the vendor, and then maybe recover some of the cost by charging people for temporary guild membership and access to it.

    For those interested, here are two more items the vendor might sell.

    Hoping for improvements...
  • fester69trollfester69troll Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    The mysterrious merchant will offer diferent gear in each allied stronghold.

    Yes, but the vendor may be too expensive for the small guilds - the main issue being the 60.000 Gems,
    ????? -> 80 000 Gems (Rank 19 guild)

  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
  • vida44vida44 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 667 Arc User
    SH MARAUDERS


    Finally managed to complete some of these.

    All I can say is...CC IS BACK. Oh yes, having a CC player makes this all go easier. I mean, you can just smash everything with a couple of 4k toons true, but for some smaller guilds that can't afford a 3.5-4k toons, CC will help a lot.

    The rewards are...well, I don't have enough data to really give a good judgement. But here is what I have so far:

    1st test:
    We had 6 players and we were all guarding only the east gate. We defended it for the first 5 waves. Left it at 100+ supplies and we all got 25 Gem vouchers (Each voucher earns 5 in gems to the guild coffer). We didn0t have the option to vote for continue due to not having supplies on the other two gates.
    Also, since it was the first completion of the week we all got 600 Influence. (If you have 40 guild members on the map with each getting 600, that would be 24000 Influence a week from the event.)

    2nd test:
    We had 6 players also, but we split up. 2 on each gate. We cleared the first 5 waves and voted to proceed for another 5 waves. In the end we finished the 10th wave and we couldn't vote to continue since we were missing supplies on 2 gates. The rewards were some Gem vouchers (from the first 5 waves I believe) and some Frozen vouchers (from the second 5 waves). The amount wasn't big so it must be tied to how many supplies you have on the gate after the 5 waves.


    @terramak

    BUG: During the fight if you try to put supplies back to the pile it will teleport you to the campfire. This didn't happen every time so can't give you an exact repro. Maybe if I had more people to test it with I would be paying more attention. It is very stressful trying to hold the supplies with 2 man against those speedy werewolves.


    ADDITIONAL:
    Now, I don't know if this is working as intended but we did have supplies in our inventories after the 10th wave. But the event ended before we could put them where they belong.
  • asterdahlasterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer

    adinosii said:

    So, how about having the inventory of the Mysterious Merchant randomized more frequently - once per day, for example?

    I guess there is also the question of does the Mysterious Merchant show the same inventory to every character that visits her for an entire week, or would she offer different items if I were to check her with multiple alts. The gear items are all BtA at first, so there'd be no issue with transferring a desired item, and the SH decor pieces don't matter who adds them to the warehouse.

    Otherwise, I agree that a week is a pretty long time for daily players to be faced with the same 5 items.

    The mysterious merchant in a given guild will sell exactly the same items to anyone who checks her inventory for the entire duration of her presence. As some have pointed out this lasts a week and as a result is somewhat inconvenient—that is intentionally the case. The idea is that when your guild summons her, you can chat about what's currently available, it represents a social experience between your guild (and possibly your alliance, as others have pointed out, you could go to a guild in your alliance's stronghold to purchase items from their merchant.)

    Adinosii has pointed out that these items may be comparable to masterwork items (something we're looking into), however, one of the important factors here is that items from the mysterious merchant cannot simply be acquired on demand. You'll need to have a nearly full stock of guild marks and your guild needs to have summoned her, and she needs to have the item you want available.

    Considering how powerful these items are, and the fact that you on an individual level only need to grind guild marks to obtain them, we're not looking to make it an easier to access a specific item.



  • ichimaruginxichimaruginx Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    asterdahl said:


    Adinosii has pointed out that these items may be comparable to masterwork items (something we're looking into), however, one of the important factors here is that items from the mysterious merchant cannot simply be acquired on demand. You'll need to have a nearly full stock of guild marks and your guild needs to have summoned her, and she needs to have the item you want available.

    @asterdahl

    So these items will no longer needed to be with gold as mentioned before and instead need guild marks now?

    Just my 2 cents, I have to mention too that some of those items are pretty awful next to the MW ones, having less stats or useless ones like regen :smile: So, while adinosii brings up a good point, it can only be applied to a few of the items, not most. So far, I see ONLY 2 (Gladiator's Feted Greaves & Executioner's Black Attire) items that might be comparable. Out of the numerous - I doubt the chance to get it with the random spawns are that easy.

    Just leave them be I'd say. This gives us a purpose to summon the trader imo, else except for transmute I wouldn't bothered to even have it! It's costly, gives useless items, need tons of guild marks and we are at the mercy of RNG god. I'd rather buy a MW one off the AH simple and easy. Don't forget you can't destroy the merchants so a guild can wait for months to have the item spawned.

    For reference, the items so far: (credits to whoever that gathered it, not me)
    http://i.imgur.com/DqPUcVV.png

  • mightyerikssonmightyeriksson Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    asterdahl said:


    ... As some have pointed out this lasts a week and as a result is somewhat inconvenient—that is intentionally the case. The idea is that when your guild summons her, you can chat about what's currently available, it represents a social experience between your guild (and possibly your alliance, as others have pointed out, you could go to a guild in your alliance's stronghold to purchase items from their merchant.)

    Adinosii has pointed out that these items may be comparable to masterwork items (something we're looking into), however, one of the important factors here is that items from the mysterious merchant cannot simply be acquired on demand. You'll need to have a nearly full stock of guild marks and your guild needs to have summoned her, and she needs to have the item you want available.

    Considering how powerful these items are, and the fact that you on an individual level only need to grind guild marks to obtain them, we're not looking to make it an easier to access a specific item.



    Don't make the same mistake with these items as you did with the LifeForged weapons, as over-reacting to complaints rendered the set nearly without purpose.

    Keep them as is, and dont listen too much to those with ulterior motives...
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    asterdahl said:


    Adinosii has pointed out that these items may be comparable to masterwork items (something we're looking into), however, one of the important factors here is that items from the mysterious merchant cannot simply be acquired on demand.

    To clarify, I am not complaining about those items being too strong - in fact, given various factors like the guild mark cost and the cost of summoning the merchant, they are just fine - I am complaining more about the masterwork pieces being a bit too weak by comparison. If the masterwork armor had a 3 or 4-piece set bonus (like practically every other end-game armor set), I would be happy. (OK, OK, I'll accept they have a "hidden" bonus in that they do not require upkeep, unlike the Vivified armor, but still...)

    I had been looking forward to the new Mastercraft, but right now I am a bit pessimistic. I really do not see people going for the Masterwork weapons - they are not superior to the (free, and easy-to-obtain) M11 weapons, unless you have several people in a group using them - and the chances of that happening are minuscule.

    The armor is good - a viable choice for some people (those who do not have Vivified relic armor, and have plenty of AD, but quite frankly, that is probably a very small subset of players). Those people might go for this armor, or perhaps more likely, go for a combination of Masterwork and Mysterious Merchant pieces - partly because of the various bonuses those pieces have.

    I think there is a nice amount of AD to be made by crafting the new Masterwork rings - there are some PvPers that are willing to pay for any edge, no matter how small, and those rings might be BiS for them.

    But overall....I do not expect the masterwork products to become as popular as I first expected.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    ... as others have pointed out, you could go to a guild in your alliance's stronghold to purchase items from their merchant.)

    Not going to happen. The reason is that the high Gem cost makes it quite impractical for any mid- or low-level guild to summon the Mysterious Merchant.

    What I predict will happen is that various maxed-out rank-20 guilds will summon merchants, advertise what they offer, and charge people for a 10-minute membership so they can purchase from the merchants.

    On the subject of cost - you went way too far regarding the cost of the Gold-generating structure. It is really just useful for small guilds, and I do not see how they can be expected to afford it.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • mightyerikssonmightyeriksson Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    asterdahl said:


    Adinosii has pointed out that these items may be comparable to masterwork items (something we're looking into), however, one of the important factors here is that items from the mysterious merchant cannot simply be acquired on demand.

    To clarify, I am not complaining about those items being too strong - in fact, given various factors like the guild mark cost and the cost of summoning the merchant, they are just fine - I am complaining more about the masterwork pieces being a bit too weak by comparison. If the masterwork armor had a 3 or 4-piece set bonus (like practically every other end-game armor set), I would be happy. (OK, OK, I'll accept they have a "hidden" bonus in that they do not require upkeep, unlike the Vivified armor, but still...)

    I had been looking forward to the new Mastercraft, but right now I am a bit pessimistic. I really do not see people going for the Masterwork weapons - they are not superior to the (free, and easy-to-obtain) M11 weapons, unless you have several people in a group using them - and the chances of that happening are minuscule.

    The armor is good - a viable choice for some people (those who do not have Vivified relic armor, and have plenty of AD, but quite frankly, that is probably a very small subset of players). Those people might go for this armor, or perhaps more likely, go for a combination of Masterwork and Mysterious Merchant pieces - partly because of the various bonuses those pieces have.

    I think there is a nice amount of AD to be made by crafting the new Masterwork rings - there are some PvPers that are willing to pay for any edge, no matter how small, and those rings might be BiS for them.

    But overall....I do not expect the masterwork products to become as popular as I first expected.
    Yeah, there really should be a set-bonus to MW gear, I've suggested many times to just copy the basic bonus from the Dusk-set, and maybe add a 4 piece bonus, +5% damage done & -5% damage taken?
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  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User

    The costs of SHs were set in a different era when there were many more sources of AD, they need to be adjusted to the current era of low and slow AD gains.

    You can buy AD vouchers from the AH for next to nothing. Most of the guilds in my alliance have their AD and Labor coffers blocked so that other guilds cannot donate to them due to the fact they cap out crazy fast.
    Defiant didn't mean there was any issue with the direct AD cost involved in SH buildings, which have been completely alleviated by both reducing the cost and giving us an accessible option for producing the resource.

    He later clarified he meant the cost involved in buying resources like gems.
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    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • edited April 2017
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  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I'm tempted to steal an idea from @tripsofthrymr asking guildies to run the 20-30 minute tasks to produce some gems and leather strips if it fits into their playing window, and then mail those to me so I can manufacture the boxes. I make the boxes anyway, but my method for keeping the stock of materials up isn't very efficient (and can't really be without my spending hours just logging characters in and out to rotate them).
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
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  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    He will just come back and say it is easy, just use all your profession slots to make gem bags.

    Nah...not all of them...8/9 is just fine:



    Seriously though...I used to run leadership tasks in my profession slots - now it's just gems...gems...gems.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • mintmarkmintmark Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 470 Arc User
    You sort of can craft some shards with final campaign tasks from Elemental Evil and the Maze Engine... I sometimes make conqueror shards that way.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User

    You can't craft influence or shards. If you could, then there would be no issues. Even a shard trader would be nice.

    Well they are looking at both of those things as I'm sure you've seen on the other thread. The temp Gemcutter can make extra gems that can then be used to help build a temp structure (Recruiter) for influence but the shards are still under review: "Shards of Conquest are obviously a real problem, and we aren't doing enough for those yet, so they remain on our "problem" list."
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