NW has terrible Tank and Healer content

swirve

This game does some things right but is basically a DPS burn game.

A big part of this is due to vast majority of content being 2k or lower and its pretty easy to hit 2.5k. At which point tlyou really dont need healers or tanks and hell a lot of players are 3k plus.

If i compare to more skillful games like ESO or FF14, even at high lvls the mechanics of end game require heals or tanks.

Take Aethenian Archive or Hel Ra even b4 they were levelled up you needed a healer and tank to survive even when heavily overgeared.

This game is basically 4 DPS + DC buff or even 5 DPS.

It would be nice if the developers actually started to introduce better mechanics that require classes and not just burn boss in 30 secs.

@mimicking#6533
@strumslinger
@zebular

Any1 from the mod or dev side care to talk about this experience and game design?

zebular

I do agree to most of the extent. I remember when my healer actually healed in a dungeon and was needed. I've played a Devoted Cleric since Alpha and she is arguably my main character (a toss up really with my oldest wizard). I miss those days as I love playing a cleric that heals and protects. The only real need for Clerics now are for their buffs really, which isn't even needed that much. I remember when I'd see party health bars start dropping and have time to drop and throw heals, watch their bars go back up and the fight push on. Now, most group content feels like a race to do the most damage you can as fast as you can regardless of any possible tactics, strategies, or communication. Either player's health bars are constantly full, or they are one shot dead, leaving no room for a healer spec. I miss content that made you take time to think and cooperate rather than the end-game content we have now that, whether intentionally or not, encourages the opposite.

beckylunatic

While the latest endgame content has tried to return roles for tanks and healers, the questing content contains an enormous amount of DPS checks, which means that characters actually built for support can't easily complete many required tasks solo. This has been another major issue with recent releases.

Yep, it's a multiplayer game, but teaming up for dailies that take hours isn't why people play support characters. Plus it means having to share any relics you find in your travels.

dupeks

Sadly, I have to agree. My main is a heal/buff DC and I insist on staying that way. I know I could be better for party DPS if I rebuilt, but I really enjoy being a cleric and shepherding the weak etc.

From a different barrel but equally frustrating to me: a lot of the solo content is effectively a DPS check. This is particularly true of the new content (SKT, SMI, oh my). So even if you want to be a tank or party-focused character, you're punished for it if you want to participate in new content without a DPS carrying you around. Since my toon is geared to the teeth I manage to putz along, but any mid-geared DC is effectively unable to progress solo.

thefabricant

Whilst everything can be done by 4 dps+1 buff, it can be done much more efficiently with a rainbow party and that is worth keeping in mind.

lirithiel

Sadly, until Cryptic finally catch up to the real MMOs by introducing dual specs, non-dps classes will always suffer in solo content unless they horribly outgear it. But we are at the Mod 5-stage again where almost all the content is trivialised by Mr Power Creep.

swirve

@thefabricant i have to disagree on all bar FBI and maybe eDemo a rainbow party is not most effective in my experience.

By rainbow i mean tank, heal and DPS..of which a slot might be for DC buff and a dedicated OP healer...

What id like to see is persistent area wide DoT as a simple mechanic and waves of intense Damage that need shielding and healing...whereby a DPS cannot easily survive if at all.

Im hopeful for large scale content bringing more class balance as dungeons are as i said 4+1 or 5 with simple mechanics.

Id love to see something like the coils of bahamut or maw of lorkhaj type content come to NW as it has a lot of other good stuff.

thefabricant

swirve#6429 said:

@thefabricant i have to disagree on all bar FBI and maybe eDemo a rainbow party is not most effective in my experience.



By rainbow i mean tank, heal and DPS..of which a slot might be for DC buff and a dedicated OP healer...



What id like to see is persistent area wide DoT as a simple mechanic and waves of intense Damage that need shielding and healing...whereby a DPS cannot easily survive if at all.



Im hopeful for large scale content bringing more class balance as dungeons are as i said 4+1 or 5 with simple mechanics.



Id love to see something like the coils of bahamut or maw of lorkhaj type content come to NW as it has a lot of other good stuff.

All the fastest clears on PC of every piece of content, has included a DC and a GF.

swirve

Also the overgearing is a major problem if they made a load of dungeons at 2.5k, 3k, 3.5k and 4k youd find more natural class balance as long as rewards justified running say 3.5k challenging run vs a dozen 2k speed runs of all dps

silverkelt

Frankly I would take a gf/dc on any content, because it just goes faster and smoother..

Not sure why you would skip them, regardless that they are not always needed for healer/tank roles.

ravenskya

My crew isn't terribly over geared - we fit right in where we should be to run the epics. I agree with most of what has been said here because

1) my healadin feels useless anymore unless I'm using my aura of life to do a drive by rezzing. People are either alive or dead - there is no healing, pally buffs are minimal. DC's are used for buffing and not healing

2) we run eLoL without a tank with no issues (again we are NOT over geared for it... most of us are 2200-2700 on any given day)

3) we run mDemo with 1 OP tank, 1 DC buffer and all the rest DPS - get gold easily.

4) You don't get credit for supporting roles on: Dragon flights, heroic encounters, moat farming, etc

swirve

@thefabricant are you sure....or are you quoting all times when overgearing was less.

Are you telling me that a 3.5k group of 4 DPS + DC buff would run slower than 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 buffer and 2DPS as that is rainbow.

For something like ELOL or CN

drewhayes

beckylunatic said:

While the latest endgame content has tried to return roles for tanks and healers, the questing content contains an enormous amount of DPS checks, which means that characters actually built for support can't easily complete many required tasks solo. This has been another major issue with recent releases.

Yep, it's a multiplayer game, but teaming up for dailies that take hours isn't why people play support characters. Plus it means having to share any relics you find in your travels.

I disagree. I don't play a DC as my main. I do have an alt I have raised op to Lvl 70 recently. I won't say it was easy, but if you pick your powers carefully, you can have a "dual-spec" build that will get you thru most of the lvling content. Mind you, there are some things, such as the Sharandar & Dread ring dailies where u will need help if you want to complete them in a timely fashion
But, even if you don't have a guild to help, there are almost always ppl around that will team up, even if it is just to make the run faster.

drewhayes

drewhayes said:

beckylunatic said:

While the latest endgame content has tried to return roles for tanks and healers, the questing content contains an enormous amount of DPS checks, which means that characters actually built for support can't easily complete many required tasks solo. This has been another major issue with recent releases.

Yep, it's a multiplayer game, but teaming up for dailies that take hours isn't why people play support characters. Plus it means having to share any relics you find in your travels.

I disagree. I don't play a DC as my main. I do have an alt I have raised op to Lvl 70 recently. I won't say it was easy, but if you pick your powers carefully, you can have a "dual-spec" build that will get you thru most of the lvling content. Mind you, there are some things, such as the Sharandar & Dread ring dailies where u will need help if you want to complete them in a timely fashion
But, even if you don't have a guild to help, there are almost always ppl around that will team up, even if it is just to make the run faster.

Also, if you are running a healing build, a good companion is a MUST. Until you build up an hefty AD pile... the shield maiden is the best 2 gold you will ever spend. & if you are willing to buy 500zen for the first-timer' s pack the War dog is awesome.

ravenskya

drewhayes said:

drewhayes said:

beckylunatic said:

While the latest endgame content has tried to return roles for tanks and healers, the questing content contains an enormous amount of DPS checks, which means that characters actually built for support can't easily complete many required tasks solo. This has been another major issue with recent releases.

Yep, it's a multiplayer game, but teaming up for dailies that take hours isn't why people play support characters. Plus it means having to share any relics you find in your travels.

I disagree. I don't play a DC as my main. I do have an alt I have raised op to Lvl 70 recently. I won't say it was easy, but if you pick your powers carefully, you can have a "dual-spec" build that will get you thru most of the lvling content. Mind you, there are some things, such as the Sharandar & Dread ring dailies where u will need help if you want to complete them in a timely fashion
But, even if you don't have a guild to help, there are almost always ppl around that will team up, even if it is just to make the run faster.

Also, if you are running a healing build, a good companion is a MUST. Until you build up an hefty AD pile... the shield maiden is the best 2 gold you will ever spend. & if you are willing to buy 500zen for the first-timer' s pack the War dog is awesome.

I don't think that was the point of the OP

No one has any trouble building a great healer or tank. The problem is that this game doesn't consider healing/tanking as participation and forces support roles to constantly NEED support. Our guild founder wouldn't do dailies unless a DPS went with him. When mobs respawn before you can finish killing the first group - it doesn't take long to get irritated and say HAMPSTER this until my dps friends are free.

You will see this if you mote farm, influence run, etc. You don't get credit for the HE unless you do a certain % of the damage. It doesn't matter that my heals exceed 200k per heal - I have to be able to do a % of the damage to get a mote even if I use a wand.

Also the game doesn't make healing or tanking necessary for the true end game content. Meaning your character becomes almost worthless once you get to the fun stuff.

mDemo is supposed to need 2 tanks and 2 healers. We run with 1 tank and 1 buffer 8 dps
eLoL should need 1 tank, 1 heal, 3 dps - we run it with 1 tank 4 dps or 1 heal 4 dps, or the other day just to get everyone in - 2 heals 3 dps. Meaning that either the tank or healer is optional.

It's not that great heals or tanking are hard to achieve - it's that the game gives no love to those characters

rjc9000

swirve#6429 said:

@thefabricant are you sure....or are you quoting all times when overgearing was less.



Are you telling me that a 3.5k group of 4 DPS + DC buff would run slower than 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 buffer and 2DPS as that is rainbow.



For something like ELOL or CN

I believe Sharp meant that you're running a GF, DC, MoF CW, a good DPSer, and an additional DPS/another buffer (ex: HR with Thorn Ward/Longstrider's) by "rainbow".

Assuming each of those players know what they're doing and know how to time their buffs with DPS, the rainbow team will clear content much faster than a team with 5 DPS players, due to the way that buffs and debuffs work with damage.

thefabricant

swirve#6429 said:

@thefabricant are you sure....or are you quoting all times when overgearing was less.



Are you telling me that a 3.5k group of 4 DPS + DC buff would run slower than 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 buffer and 2DPS as that is rainbow.



For something like ELOL or CN

Yes, I am. With 100% certainty. I know as a fact that the teams I run with have the fastest clear times on FBI (source: devs on preview stated the groups I run with have the fastest time) and I am fairly sure we probably do for other dungeons as well. When running burn groups, it is almost always 3 support 2 dps or 4 support 1 dps.

dupeks

thefabricant said:

swirve#6429 said:

@thefabricant are you sure....or are you quoting all times when overgearing was less.



Are you telling me that a 3.5k group of 4 DPS + DC buff would run slower than 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 buffer and 2DPS as that is rainbow.



For something like ELOL or CN

Yes, I am. With 100% certainty. I know as a fact that the teams I run with have the fastest clear times on FBI (source: devs on preview stated the groups I run with have the fastest time) and I am fairly sure we probably do for other dungeons as well. When running burn groups, it is almost always 3 support 2 dps or 4 support 1 dps.

100% agree. Fastest FBI completion times for me are always 1 dps 4 support (if dps is BiS), and 2nd fastest were 2 dps 3 support (if dps is not BiS). Fastest anything completion times, to be honest.

It just matters a lot less for non-FBI content because run times are much shorter outside of FBI. As an imperfect/subjective example, the right composition can cut 15-20min off of an FBI run, whereas it saves you maybe 2-4min off of any other T2 compared to a similarly geared but sub-optimal party (more dps, less support).

For easy content, I like having a GF strictly for the move speed bonus from ITF, because if the mobs melt fast enough a majority of the time spent in the dungeon is actually running not fighting.

So it's not always critical to spend time forming the right party unless you're running the hardest content, as the time spent forming the perfect group might eat up most of the time savings.

drewhayes

ravenskya said:

drewhayes said:

drewhayes said:

beckylunatic said:

While the latest endgame content has tried to return roles for tanks and healers, the questing content contains an enormous amount of DPS checks, which means that characters actually built for support can't easily complete many required tasks solo. This has been another major issue with recent releases.

Yep, it's a multiplayer game, but teaming up for dailies that take hours isn't why people play support characters. Plus it means having to share any relics you find in your travels.

I disagree. I don't play a DC as my main. I do have an alt I have raised op to Lvl 70 recently. I won't say it was easy, but if you pick your powers carefully, you can have a "dual-spec" build that will get you thru most of the lvling content. Mind you, there are some things, such as the Sharandar & Dread ring dailies where u will need help if you want to complete them in a timely fashion
But, even if you don't have a guild to help, there are almost always ppl around that will team up, even if it is just to make the run faster.

Also, if you are running a healing build, a good companion is a MUST. Until you build up an hefty AD pile... the shield maiden is the best 2 gold you will ever spend. & if you are willing to buy 500zen for the first-timer' s pack the War dog is awesome.

I don't think that was the point of the OP

No one has any trouble building a great healer or tank. The problem is that this game doesn't consider healing/tanking as participation and forces support roles to constantly NEED support. Our guild founder wouldn't do dailies unless a DPS went with him. When mobs respawn before you can finish killing the first group - it doesn't take long to get irritated and say HAMPSTER this until my dps friends are free.

You will see this if you mote farm, influence run, etc. You don't get credit for the HE unless you do a certain % of the damage. It doesn't matter that my heals exceed 200k per heal - I have to be able to do a % of the damage to get a mote even if I use a wand.

Also the game doesn't make healing or tanking necessary for the true end game content. Meaning your character becomes almost worthless once you get to the fun stuff.

mDemo is supposed to need 2 tanks and 2 healers. We run with 1 tank and 1 buffer 8 dps
eLoL should need 1 tank, 1 heal, 3 dps - we run it with 1 tank 4 dps or 1 heal 4 dps, or the other day just to get everyone in - 2 heals 3 dps. Meaning that either the tank or healer is optional.

It's not that great heals or tanking are hard to achieve - it's that the game gives no love to those characters

I can't speak to end game content, as my healer just hit lvl 70 a few weeks ago. But, even without the boons & only 1 4point power, I still have found a way to contribute to group content. Do I win Paingiver? Ever? no. of course not. But that doesn't mean that you are totally useless. There ARE powers that do damage AS they heal. You may have to play around with your normal rotation a bit, but it is possible for a healer to do SOME damage. Now, if it is true that the end-game content wont drop ANY rewards unless you hit a certain mark... that is a problem. But this is the first I have heard of it. I think someone should bring this to @strumslinger 's attention.

lirithiel

drewhayes said:

ravenskya said:

drewhayes said:

drewhayes said:

beckylunatic said:

While the latest endgame content has tried to return roles for tanks and healers, the questing content contains an enormous amount of DPS checks, which means that characters actually built for support can't easily complete many required tasks solo. This has been another major issue with recent releases.

Yep, it's a multiplayer game, but teaming up for dailies that take hours isn't why people play support characters. Plus it means having to share any relics you find in your travels.

I disagree. I don't play a DC as my main. I do have an alt I have raised op to Lvl 70 recently. I won't say it was easy, but if you pick your powers carefully, you can have a "dual-spec" build that will get you thru most of the lvling content. Mind you, there are some things, such as the Sharandar & Dread ring dailies where u will need help if you want to complete them in a timely fashion
But, even if you don't have a guild to help, there are almost always ppl around that will team up, even if it is just to make the run faster.

Also, if you are running a healing build, a good companion is a MUST. Until you build up an hefty AD pile... the shield maiden is the best 2 gold you will ever spend. & if you are willing to buy 500zen for the first-timer' s pack the War dog is awesome.

I don't think that was the point of the OP

No one has any trouble building a great healer or tank. The problem is that this game doesn't consider healing/tanking as participation and forces support roles to constantly NEED support. Our guild founder wouldn't do dailies unless a DPS went with him. When mobs respawn before you can finish killing the first group - it doesn't take long to get irritated and say HAMPSTER this until my dps friends are free.

You will see this if you mote farm, influence run, etc. You don't get credit for the HE unless you do a certain % of the damage. It doesn't matter that my heals exceed 200k per heal - I have to be able to do a % of the damage to get a mote even if I use a wand.

Also the game doesn't make healing or tanking necessary for the true end game content. Meaning your character becomes almost worthless once you get to the fun stuff.

mDemo is supposed to need 2 tanks and 2 healers. We run with 1 tank and 1 buffer 8 dps
eLoL should need 1 tank, 1 heal, 3 dps - we run it with 1 tank 4 dps or 1 heal 4 dps, or the other day just to get everyone in - 2 heals 3 dps. Meaning that either the tank or healer is optional.

It's not that great heals or tanking are hard to achieve - it's that the game gives no love to those characters

I can't speak to end game content, as my healer just hit lvl 70 a few weeks ago. But, even without the boons & only 1 4point power, I still have found a way to contribute to group content. Do I win Paingiver? Ever? no. of course not. But that doesn't mean that you are totally useless. There ARE powers that do damage AS they heal. You may have to play around with your normal rotation a bit, but it is possible for a healer to do SOME damage. Now, if it is true that the end-game content wont drop ANY rewards unless you hit a certain mark... that is a problem. But this is the first I have heard of it. I think someone should bring this to @strumslinger 's attention.

You're misinterpreting what's being spoken about here again. Some content - HEs mostly - don't reward tanks or healers unless they do a certain amount of damage and we're not talking about casting Daunting Light every time it's off CD. You need to do quite a bit of damage to qualify for rewards. (probably implemented for botting). I remember the IWD HEs were a major sticking point for GFs and DCs to get their BI weapons and gauntlets.

sh00termcl0vin

At this point in the game debuffing/tanking is way more valuable than actual healing. This is because of the fact that enemies either 1shot or do almost no damage due to heavy debuffs/buffs. Also insignia healing and passive healing from other sources picks up the slack when spot heals are necessary.

Either way I would say tanks and buff classes are very valuable in the end game like cn and fbi, but for lower level content not so much

ravenskya

drewhayes said:

I can't speak to end game content, as my healer just hit lvl 70 a few weeks ago. But, even without the boons & only 1 4point power, I still have found a way to contribute to group content. Do I win Paingiver? Ever? no. of course not. But that doesn't mean that you are totally useless. There ARE powers that do damage AS they heal. You may have to play around with your normal rotation a bit, but it is possible for a healer to do SOME damage. Now, if it is true that the end-game content wont drop ANY rewards unless you hit a certain mark... that is a problem. But this is the first I have heard of it. I think someone should bring this to @strumslinger 's attention.

I'm talking about mid game content - everyone is useful up to 70.

Try mote farming on a healer or a tank and needing to get that minimum amount of damage for the HE to count for you.

Let me tell you what happens.

1)You will start running in to HE's thinking that you are going to get motes... you won't because there will be DPS there that burn everything too quickly for you to get the minimum damage so no motes for you
2) you then decide to just solo the HE's - and discover that it takes you so long to do this with the HE's timer that you are going to have to go through double or triple the wands this way.

at this point if you are a normal person one of two things will happen -

-you say "hamster this" and decide you don't need no stinking motes and will head right for the twisted weapons
or
-you call on you dps friends to come with you to speed up the kills but not do TOO much damage so that you can get enough damage in for it to count (and it's more damage required than it should be)

And then you realize you have to do it all again in IWD

armadeonx

drewhayes said:

ravenskya said:

drewhayes said:

drewhayes said:

beckylunatic said:

While the latest endgame content has tried to return roles for tanks and healers, the questing content contains an enormous amount of DPS checks, which means that characters actually built for support can't easily complete many required tasks solo. This has been another major issue with recent releases.

Yep, it's a multiplayer game, but teaming up for dailies that take hours isn't why people play support characters. Plus it means having to share any relics you find in your travels.

I disagree. I don't play a DC as my main. I do have an alt I have raised op to Lvl 70 recently. I won't say it was easy, but if you pick your powers carefully, you can have a "dual-spec" build that will get you thru most of the lvling content. Mind you, there are some things, such as the Sharandar & Dread ring dailies where u will need help if you want to complete them in a timely fashion
But, even if you don't have a guild to help, there are almost always ppl around that will team up, even if it is just to make the run faster.

Also, if you are running a healing build, a good companion is a MUST. Until you build up an hefty AD pile... the shield maiden is the best 2 gold you will ever spend. & if you are willing to buy 500zen for the first-timer' s pack the War dog is awesome.

I don't think that was the point of the OP

No one has any trouble building a great healer or tank. The problem is that this game doesn't consider healing/tanking as participation and forces support roles to constantly NEED support. Our guild founder wouldn't do dailies unless a DPS went with him. When mobs respawn before you can finish killing the first group - it doesn't take long to get irritated and say HAMPSTER this until my dps friends are free.

You will see this if you mote farm, influence run, etc. You don't get credit for the HE unless you do a certain % of the damage. It doesn't matter that my heals exceed 200k per heal - I have to be able to do a % of the damage to get a mote even if I use a wand.

Also the game doesn't make healing or tanking necessary for the true end game content. Meaning your character becomes almost worthless once you get to the fun stuff.

mDemo is supposed to need 2 tanks and 2 healers. We run with 1 tank and 1 buffer 8 dps
eLoL should need 1 tank, 1 heal, 3 dps - we run it with 1 tank 4 dps or 1 heal 4 dps, or the other day just to get everyone in - 2 heals 3 dps. Meaning that either the tank or healer is optional.

It's not that great heals or tanking are hard to achieve - it's that the game gives no love to those characters

I can't speak to end game content, as my healer just hit lvl 70 a few weeks ago. But, even without the boons & only 1 4point power, I still have found a way to contribute to group content. Do I win Paingiver? Ever? no. of course not. But that doesn't mean that you are totally useless. There ARE powers that do damage AS they heal. You may have to play around with your normal rotation a bit, but it is possible for a healer to do SOME damage. Now, if it is true that the end-game content wont drop ANY rewards unless you hit a certain mark... that is a problem. But this is the first I have heard of it. I think someone should bring this to @strumslinger 's attention.

Drew, there's a big difference between contributing to a pug groups success and understanding optimal group mixes - because that means you'd need a full understanding of what each class (and its various builds) brings to the table.

Also, when Becky etc talk about dual speccing they are referring to stats & feats more than where you spend your power points. Newer players rarely appreciate the depth of impact feat choices have on a characters viability.

Edit: You probably shouldn't try a lecturing tone with some of the people you're disagreeing with. A couple of them have a very thorough understanding of the game - including the power options available to all the classes and have played the game for (literally) years.

pitshade

I don't know if it is still the same, but back in Mod 3 IIRC the devs said that healing counts towards participation in an HE, which leads to the regrettable but necessary choice for a cleric to forego mitigation of damage so that there is more healing needed. Regardless, my DCs can get great success in Demonic HEs either by doing nothing but healing or else DG+Divinity Chainsx3+Chains over and over and over. Anything in between and they get encounter completed.

bitt3rnightmar3

lirithiel said:

You're misinterpreting what's being spoken about here again. Some content - HEs mostly - don't reward tanks or healers unless they do a certain amount of damage and we're not talking about casting Daunting Light every time it's off CD. You need to do quite a bit of damage to qualify for rewards. (probably implemented for botting). I remember the IWD HEs were a major sticking point for GFs and DCs to get their BI weapons and gauntlets.

As a player of a healer and a tank I will say that I agree 100% here. This is the main reason why I hate HEs. All I'm doing is enabling zerging button mashing DPS to get lots of great rewards when I get absolutely nothing but the bare minimum for working my HAMSTER off buffing and doing my job. If I stood there and cast one at will and ran away I'd get the same reward in an HE. Not engaging gameplay. Not rewarding at all and is extremely laggy and inconsistent. This mod fails Healers and Tanks especially by making them necessary but ignores entirely the struggle of playing a support class in a DPS burn-centric open world. Unless I'm basically carried by a DPS I'm not able to progress this campaign any further in a reasonable amount of time.

I don't mind HEs for optional rewards. I mind HEs that gate me away from doing content instead of toward character progression. I don't get lanolin or boots to drop in HEs and I work just as hard as anyone else.

zebular

pitshade said:

I don't know if it is still the same, but back in Mod 3 IIRC the devs said that healing counts towards participation in an HE, which leads to the regrettable but necessary choice for a cleric to forego mitigation of damage so that there is more healing needed. Regardless, my DCs can get great success in Demonic HEs either by doing nothing but healing or else DG+Divinity Chainsx3+Chains over and over and over. Anything in between and they get encounter completed.

Indeed, my HoT Virtuous DC gets Great Success almost every time in every Heroic Encounter that I do on her, whether it is Icewind Dale, Tyranny of Dragons, Elemental Evil, or Rage of Demons HE's. Except for HE's that I enter into after they've started, of course. She does puny damage compared to any other class or spec but her healing is wondrous. When in divine mode, I drop down Divine Glow, Sunburst, and Bastion of Health and when out of divine mode, I repeat my at wills of Astral Seal and Burning Guidance while dropping down Divine Glow and Bastion. I rarely use Sunburst out of divine mode in group content because I deplore its knockback. I have no problems soloing most open world content and quest content in the game on my main cleric. Sure, she takes forever to kill things but things can rarely ever get her health down below 3/4 due to her supreme and constant HoTs.

Regardless, this is all getting off topic for this topic is about the need for a Healing Specced Cleric in group content. It is not about their own individual survivability and ability to gain successes in Heroic Encounters.

swirve

On the healing side what actual group content really requires a healadin or healercleric.

PvE:
Dragonflight...only if group low ilvl
Normal and Epic Demo...
Tiamat...depends
FBI? For now...

So no dungeons other than FBI.

This is damning really and something that needs to be addressed in a mod. Ive given up playing healer as its just not worth it anymore outside others needing on above.

@mimicking#6533
Can we get a mod: Return of the healer.

Id love to see the stats for non rndm queue dungeon runs and see the proportion of true healers to run instances...Buff DC is not a healer IMO...

jazzfong

I am a DC, but i against any content that required major healing gate. Yeah you dpser feel it should be neccessary to have such content, but we DCs cannot advance further with our poor dps in healing spec. Even the dps path (righteous) isnt strong enough to wipe every elite mob in our daily quest with one rotation like all the other dps classes do.

In conclusion, either make soloing as a DC easier or dont introduce healing oriented content. Dont make us DC into a stalemate situation of "You have to heal to do complete a dungeon, but you will fail to advance in boons and dailies and do nothing in game except that dungeon".

swirve

@jazzfong

So you are against 'healing gates' but pro 'dps gates'?

So you are is support of the status quo which is healing is a side mechanic in this MMO as all it is is DPS and Buff atm.

The grindy boons are a different issue alltogether

spideymt

thefabricant said:

Yes, I am. With 100% certainty. I know as a fact that the teams I run with have the fastest clear times on FBI (source: devs on preview stated the groups I run with have the fastest time) and I am fairly sure we probably do for other dungeons as well. When running burn groups, it is almost always 3 support 2 dps or 4 support 1 dps.

Thats right and you did a great job to show theese runs and post them over and over and over again. Thumbs up...it helped a lot for balancing.

BTT:
Atm no one needs a pure heal DC. Everybody wants a buffer/debuffer. Thats very sad and thats the reason why i dont play my DC anymore. I made my DC to heal and keep the party alive. But you cant heal oneshots. That needs a change.

armadeonx

I think Zeb nailed the point: "Either player's health bars are constantly full, or they are one shot dead, leaving no room for a healer spec."

The devs are obviously trying to move away from de/buffing (and immunity) being the main focus of gameplay but I would like to see them take a balanced approach where classes and content are adjusted simultaneously.

They should bear in mind they created the situation and shouldn't just go reducing class de/buffs without adjusting the content.