No story starts out with "Hey I heard this dungeon has a roll of pennies at the end of it, let's go risk our lives, and spend half our day searching for it."
I think you summed it up perfectly right there. This game is set-up so that the only people who can really reap rewards are whales that can afford to buy whatever they need. The rest suffer through endgame grinds storing everything under the sun. Salvage for double AD so you can afford things to upgrade, RP for double refinement in the hopes they can get an item or two upgraded in that time just to start the process again all over. It's not a casual player friendly game. It's not an alt friendly game. It's set up so the people who have succeed and the people that don't have...well sorry but get back to grinding.
And just to get this straight, I don't mind whales at all. More power to you if you got in early and made a killing in playing the markets. That's the way some people like to play and I don't knock them for it. The point here is that the other people shouldn't have to suffer through a year of grinding just to hit 3.5 IL on one character.
Sorry for the mini-rant but the point of this all is...better rewards please.
There is no need to put in a new system to make changes just use the one that is in place to buffer the agony of how cruel the RNG can be at times.
it can be as simple as,
Legendary rings are on the twisted ichor vendor for 10 twisted ichor. epic rings for 400 protector seals for +4, 300 for the + 3. because if you have these you have put your time in andif youhave notgot the ring you wanted then you can get one with currancy. Chest drops in epic dungeons, if you are going to call it epic make the rewards epic, 2000GS to get in you should be getting rank 7 enchants from the chest, if it is going to drop refinement then maybe Rare not common with a chance at a epic. as far as different loot, random chance of area appropriate profesion pack, companion upgrade token packs, Mount upgrade items, Bonding stones at appropriate rank like enchants and or weapon/armor enchantments not shards.
1600 GS rank 6 enchants at least, artifacts, in these places most players are just getting thier gear figured out and set this would help, refinement as with epic chests a chance at better but this time common with a good chance of rare,and the same chances, for someof the itemsi listed above.
Raids, Demo/Tiamat/well of dragons/Mdemo and such andthing 10+ people, should be rank 7-9 enchants depending on difficulty such as heroic dragons in well of dragons are 7 but master demo and tiamat are rank 8-9, for those encounters with chests 1 in 500 should drop a epic lore appropriate mount, meaning tiamat can drop drakes demo dropping underdark mounts and such, 1 in 1000 a legendary.
what i'm trying to say here is buffer the RNG put Col wards in the vault of Piety make them character bound put them in chests character bound i really wouldnt care if i couldn't sell them, or scale weapon/armor enchant chances from 1% to25 startingat shards to20 combining two lessers to15 afer then 1 after that but 1% right off the bat is just mean, Throw us a bone.
A way to upgrade mounts similar to companions not locked behind my wallet, if you think this might be a lore issue i give you the fact the fact that Wizards in Forgotten Realms are always experimenting on magics including ways to improve travle, mounts included. if i am not mistaken One of the Harpell Wizards ( bad example i know) rides a Frog after experiemnting with his horse.
Companion upgrade tokens, even if it is only 5 would be HUGE and wouldgo a LONG way in helping many.
Those are just a few ideas, Thank you for listening and for takeing suggestions.
Quite simply, I want the rewards in the chest to be my choice of top tier equipment for that campaign/area. If you don't want that to be the end result, then make it a much larger chance of getting a wanted piece of equipment, and if the rng doesn't favor the player who's opening it, then there should be campaign currency equal to about 1/3 - 1/5 of the cost of that piece so it can eventually be purchased from the campaign store.
It is utterly ridiculous to have to grind anything - heroics, dungeons, or skirmishes - for a CHANCE to get a NECESSARY piece of equipment with no other way to get it. I am one of those "never get a drop" rng'ers. I have a friend who ran hundreds or more of whatever it was you needed to run to get your black ice arm piece. (before my time) I joined shortly after Mod 3 and by the time I was grinding for end game gear we had thankfully past that grind. He never got that drop until maybe a year later when they finally offered it for sale for a limited time in the zen store.
There are many of us in the game on whom rng does not favor - period! If you're not going to rework your rng formula, then the least you can do is make it possible for those of us on the wrong side of the formula to eventually get our gear by means of paying with campaign currency.
I think if you're surprised to hear that someone did 1000 runs and didn't get any good loot, you should rank up just one of those characters you played until level 15 - and do it without any dev mode, without any guild, and just play the content as the average player has to. Don't take gifts, don't get carried through all the content by a well-meaning group or guild, pug for dungeons and skirmishes, and don't cave and pay anything to pass any content. I think you'll understand much better.
1. Thanks for taking back the changes (still no apology for insulting [if ppl feel insulted, they got insulted]) 2. Thanks for this new discussion here (at least 1 of zebulars comments in the other thred was a tiny bit helpful)
3. A Discussion should be between the playerbase (moderated by our Moderators) and the dev-team. Sadly I didn´t see any post strum (you opend the discussion) or mimicking (you asked for the feedback) here...except for the opener.
4. My Suggestions:
- To be honest...I wouldn´t mind the so called "Bugfix" on the following Dungeons and Skirmishes (I will use shortcuts...if some devs don´t understand them, feel free to contact me for explanations). VT, Elol, ESoT, KR, EToS, ECC, EGWD, Tiamat and MC(by the way...legendary dragon key is not working in MC). I only go there for Seals or to complete a Stronghold Quest...but that only goes for me. It would be a pain in the A.. if I would neeed an Artifact from there. So My Solutions here would be: -- VT, Elol, MC, KR, Tiamat --> increase the droprate for Artefacts and Artefactgear in the Bonuschest by factor 10-15 -- ESoT --> increase the droprate for Haarl's Book in the Bonuschest by factor 10-15 -- EToS, ECC, EGWD --> Since there is no Bonuschest here...Drastically increase the Droprate of the Bosses (2/3 Bosses should drop Epic gear at at least 70% of the runs), Remove epic loot from the chest, 300 Seals would be better...more to this point later
- At the the following Dungeons and Skirmishes the so called "Bugfix" would hurt very much. PoM, ToDG, CN, Demo. My Solutions here would be: --PoM, ToDG, --> Put +5 Rings in a Box so we can choose the ring we get. Increase the droprate of the Ring(box) by factor 2-4. We need to be able to build 2-3 Keys per day, 1 for PoM, 1 for ToDG and 1 for nDemo (since you love this so much...it's to bring them in line with other Dungeons and Skirmishes) --CN, Demo --> Put +5 Rings in a Box so we can choose the ring we get. Increase the droprate of the Ring(box) by factor 2-4. Increase the droprate for Artefacts and Artefactgear in the Bonuschest by factor 10-15. We need to be able to build 2 Keys per day, 1 for CN, 1 for EDemo. Increase the amount of resources from the Chest, so that it´s possible to restart the Keyproduction with Goldrank, as it is in Pom and ToDG.
- FBI --> Increase the droprate for the Artefact in the Bonuschest by factor 10-15 --> Remove Sapphire from the Gearbox (thats all I would ask for this Box in the Box...RnG here is fine) --> Even though the RnG for the Gear in the Box is fine, there is something wrong with the concept. If you enter FBI, you go there for Relic Gear, but the fact, that Relic gear is only in the "Bonus"-chest is questionable. There should be a way to get your Relic Gear without ever touching this chest (as it is with every other gear in the game)...I would love to see the "normal"-chest to drop me 20 Seals of Ostoria (or something like that) and a vandor to sell me what I want. (with the common prices of 400,400,400,600 you would need 90 runs to get your unrestored gear...thats ok for grinding)
- AoS (ASSAULT ON SVARDBORG) --> Only tested it a few times...but whatever the droprates of the superiour Marks is, you have to increase it or add them to the campaignstore...noone wants to run this 1000 times to get the weapons to max.
- General Suggestions about loot --> Rifinementpoints are the common way to upgrade the loot. This holds the problem, that with more and more Refinementstuff, the value goes to waste. So If you add Refinementstuff to the Loottables it would be important to upgade it´s value at the same time. I have 2 ideas how to do this (the rest of the community will hate me for bringing them up^^) 1. Nerf Wanderer's Fortune Insignia Bonus, so that the cap is Accountwide (as it is now, I can easily get enought BtA Refinement Points between two Dobbleevents to upgrade 4-6 Artefactgearparts from uncommon to legendary. 2. Mythic Artefact-Gear...Well not much to say about this...If you give me more and more Refinementstuff, than give me something to use it for. (Artefact Armor Parts would be another Possibility, but only for the far future) --> Enchantment Bundles could be another fine way to upgrade the Loot...maybe it´s better for the market if you would add some Packs of 10-15 R5 Enchants, than adding R8 Enchants to old dungeons. --> Remove Peridot from any Dungeon Loottable --> Epic BoP Insignias on every 3K+ Dungeon or Skirmish (%-EXP-Insignias could drop as BtA) --> Unbound Skins as rare drops...(someone wrote a nice post about this) --> Companion Upgrade Tokens would also be a nice additional loot --> If I buy a key after finishing off the Endboss, I want to be able to unlock the chest! --> ZAX Vauchers...to change AD500:1Zen directly with Cryptic (value 100[uncommon], 200[rare] and 500[epic]) //ZAX Vauchers...to change AD400:1Zen directly with Cryptic (value 20[uncommon], 40[rare] and 100[epic])
-ZAX --> Even though I doupt that this will be implemented, I would love to see Cryptic sell me Zen for like 700:1 AD. It would still be way better to buy from other ppl but at least you can bypass the tailback we have right now. --> Please don´t increase the ZAX, cause than the loot would suck even more.
- General Suggestions about loot - 1. Nerf Wanderer's Fortune Insignia Bonus, so that the cap is Accountwide (as it is now, I can easily get enought BtA Refinement Points between two Dobbleevents to upgrade 4-6 Artefactgearparts from uncommon to legendary.
Dude what is your problem, the topic is about how can we increase the rewards and you pop up the idea to nerf the only viable system to get refinment points : Wanderer's Fortune ? Double refinment week-end is usually about every 2 months, and you're telling me that you can get, only by Wanderer's Fortune, something between 18 and 27 MILLIONS refinment points (that is around 36-54 STACKS of green resonance stones, enough points to upgrade like you said, between 4-6 artifact pieces of gear from nothing to legendary).
Considering the drop rate of Wanderer's Fortune, even if it's better than any Dragon Hoard's / Quartermaster or others, you have to be playing like 20 hours a day, because i'm playing decently 3-4 hours a day and i'm barely getting in 2 months 5-6 millions refinments points, but not only from Wanderer's Fortune, but also Dragon Hoard's enchantments, dragon runs (unbound), CN special drops (shattered stuff), SH HE (unbound), Maze Engine daily (unbound).
So please, PLEASE do not ask for a nerf of the droprate of Wanderer's Fortune, it's not because you're a hardcore player and you can make 20M refinments points only by this way on 2 months that this is the case for everyone. This insignia bonus may be one of the best things on the game currently considering the endless grind/
- General Suggestions about loot - 1. Nerf Wanderer's Fortune Insignia Bonus, so that the cap is Accountwide (as it is now, I can easily get enought BtA Refinement Points between two Dobbleevents to upgrade 4-6 Artefactgearparts from uncommon to legendary.
Dude what is your problem, the topic is about how can we increase the rewards and you pop up the idea to nerf the only viable system to get refinment points : Wanderer's Fortune ? Double refinment week-end is usually about every 2 months, and you're telling me that you can get, only by Wanderer's Fortune, something between 18 and 27 MILLIONS refinment points (that is around 36-54 STACKS of green resonance stones, enough points to upgrade like you said, between 4-6 artifact pieces of gear from nothing to legendary).
Considering the drop rate of Wanderer's Fortune, even if it's better than any Dragon Hoard's / Quartermaster or others, you have to be playing like 20 hours a day, because i'm playing decently 3-4 hours a day and i'm barely getting in 2 months 5-6 millions refinments points, but not only from Wanderer's Fortune, but also Dragon Hoard's enchantments, dragon runs (unbound), CN special drops (shattered stuff), SH HE (unbound), Maze Engine daily (unbound).
So please, PLEASE do not ask for a nerf of the droprate of Wanderer's Fortune, it's not because you're a hardcore player and you can make 20M refinments points only by this way on 2 months that this is the case for everyone. This insignia bonus may be one of the best things on the game currently considering the endless grind/
you missunderstood me....I never said nerf the droprate of WF...I said make the Cap Accountwide...because, YES I CAN GET 18-27 MILLION RP IN 2 MONTHS without playing 20h/day..."easily"!
That way all the ppl with 1 Mainchar wouldn´t even recognice the "Nerf"
Edit: Sharandar....20min = ca 30.000 RP x 60 Days = 1.800.000 RP x 10Chars = 18.000.000 RP in 2 Months a 3.5h/day ...sure, yoou have to quit dungeons/daylies while you farm for this, but it's still easily doable.
About the Bonus Chest drops: Everthing in this chest should be BoE, so key buyers could selll it to get more keys or just make money
You could add: 1-) Dungeon/Campaing thematic fashion Stuff 2-) Purple Insigneas 3-) Purple Marks (Potency/Power/Stability/Union) you could make every dungeon has a chance to drop a specific Mark, this way you can make people run some almost dead dungeon's like EGWD... 4-) Increase the drop of seals and remove the armor so we can choose what we get... 5-) Increase the drop of artifacts/Belt... 6-) Dungeon/Campaing thematic companions and mounts Like wolfs in EGWG, Dragons in ELOL... (some can drop comanions other can drop mounts...) 7-) Change the rings to Boxes rings (so we can choose) or build some place where we can trade these rings 8-) Always give us some trade Bar or something similar, so we can get what we want after some time (even if takes long...)
Now about those chests Keys: Unifie the keys by tiers, to make easyer to buy and to stock keys, Reasons :
1-) because dungeons are done with 5 person and will not be easy to get 5 man to run with single uses keys... 2-) This allow us to build more keys at once, and encourage people to run old content to build more keys, 3-) This also dont put pressure on small guild banks , because we can donate one specific stuff to the coffer and make keys with the others areas currency 4-) This allow us to have more keys but not enough to make people to stop buying, i believe those who buy keys are the ones that run the same stuff non stop, so they will still feel the need to buy keys instead doing old areas and wait to get keys for more runs... 5-) This make the Keys in Zen Store more desirable since they can open chests in any dungeon form their tier.
About general drops Make all BoP refining stuff BoA: This way we can send not necessary RP to another toon, so we can run Dungeons or Lair's with our main toon and feed alts with stuff... and wille runnig those places we can also get currency to make more Keys.
Do NOT nerf ANYTHING else! Not Wanderers Fortune. Not anything else. They should only be ADDING a LOT more stuff to this game. Not taking anything else away.
And, of course it's quiet... This was never about actually listening and responding to the suggestions. This post is solely to give the remaining players hope that something worthwhile comes of this nerf. If they up any drop rates - IF - it will me unnoticeable to the players but they'll say they listened and hope more people don't leave.
Their communication is terrible. Any dev posts are about the silly stuff in any thread. Never actual useful communication. So sad...
Edit: Sharandar....20min = ca 30.000 RP x 60 Days = 1.800.000 RP x 10Chars = 18.000.000 RP in 2 Months a 3.5h/day ...sure, yoou have to quit dungeons/daylies while you farm for this, but it's still easily doable.
Seriously, just stop. I see no reason why people who play on 10 characters should be penalized. Just utter ridiculousness. I play on one character and I don't think it would be fair to make it account-wide. We're looking for more rewarding play and you request a cap to make playing less rewarding.
Also, I previously played on the same account as my wife. So using your idea, one of us would have been screwed over all because you think you get too much RP. Just...stop.
To the guy that said nerf wanderers fortune, are you out of your bloody mind? Please cryptic, no more nerfs. this game is on life support as it is. To the community: let's keep the hate alive so the devs don't think we have calmed down, we haven't.
Im very curious why the devs haven't commented... The best chance for success is to be active with your community. For example look how the class balance was handled. Changes were made, discussions were had between players and developers, and progress was made. We felt involved. We felt encouraged to test, play, and thrive. The silence treatment we are getting here is exactly why everyone is so salty. Step up to the plate and do us all a favor and interact with us...
I think one of the biggest let downs is the very high RNG factor, and not that the best stuff should drop all the time but having no idea of how frequently something might happen makes it discouraging to continue to try. My personal example, I ran a couple CN's and landed the artifact, which I did not intent to use at the time and it seemed to drop fairly easy so I sold it. Now I can't seem to get one again, run after run and not getting a high reward ever again. It leaves me to think that something changed or the chance is so low why bother.
I am not sure exactly what I expect in the chest at the end but a rank 8, a blue shard, some refinement and a blue ring is of no interest to me after 20-30 minutes in a dungeon, i would not take that loot and if I did it would just end up in the sh coffer.
What if the rewards in the chest had options, like choices to grab a pack with like loot in it, maybe something similar to the packs that drop from lock boxes, like a gear pack option if I am after gear, an enchantment pack option or an AD pack, or even campaign currency pack, trade bar pack and a sh loot pack....yeah, that would be really cool. Players get choices, devs get to write some new code and it could make the dungeon desirable again...
This game is nothing but recycled content created in one year of development shaped and molded around a double blind Scratch Ticket system. Nothing about this game is legit. It doesn't even remotely follow DND rules and the RNG system is not explained whatsoever in any way. In legal gambling in the states, they are required to show the gambler the odds of winning. I have no clue why games like this one get away with this. I have no doubt after all the time and money I had sunk in while I played this game, that their code for rewarding the player is partially based off whether they have placed money into the system, and also is gated by other NOT RNG mechanics like controlling how many exist in the world. Here is how wrong their setup is. They even hide it from the most wrong place. Their promo for Celeste with Blood Ruby Packs. We are literally giving them our money, and they can't be kind enough to tell us how many expensive packs it takes for us to get her. That is so wrong. The rules should be displayed for us all to see so we can decide competently whether to invest. For all we know the code for old lockboxes was that x amount of rares would be rewarded, so theres a chance that various lockboxes would be a total waste to pop. Disagree? nobody knows thats my entire point. We just have to take their word for it. Show us the Odds and you will get ALOT of customers. Continue to con people with a decent 1-70 game only to dump them into RNG hell and you won't be around much longer, specially when you are constantly changing how classes work making people blow zen on respecs.
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kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
I've put off commenting on this thread till I had a chance to think about it. For me, I'm still offended and insulted by the tone of the original key/chest nerf announcement. The fact that it took as long as it did for PWE/Cryptic to get a clue is also offensive. I'll wait and see what the revised loot system/key system looks like, but I don't expect much, given past performance. So right now my plan is keep my wallet closed till at least the mod after 10 part 2 (since I see little in the content so far that I'm interested in).
Yah the whole thing is very offensive. I'm advising people to not spend any money until they make drastic improvements to many aspects of gameplay.
Right now the only appealing aspects are the leveling content and.. that's about it IMO. Leveling alts through campaigns is punishing slow. Mod 10 is the worst expansion in my storied MMO history. Communication is laughable. The list goes on.
I still find fun things to do but they have NOT earned any more money from me til they rewrite a large chunk of the game
I think one of the biggest let downs is the very high RNG factor, and not that the best stuff should drop all the time but having no idea of how frequently something might happen makes it discouraging to continue to try. My personal example, I ran a couple CN's and landed the artifact, which I did not intent to use at the time and it seemed to drop fairly easy so I sold it. Now I can't seem to get one again, run after run and not getting a high reward ever again. It leaves me to think that something changed or the chance is so low why bother.
I am not sure exactly what I expect in the chest at the end but a rank 8, a blue shard, some refinement and a blue ring is of no interest to me after 20-30 minutes in a dungeon, i would not take that loot and if I did it would just end up in the sh coffer.
What if the rewards in the chest had options, like choices to grab a pack with like loot in it, maybe something similar to the packs that drop from lock boxes, like a gear pack option if I am after gear, an enchantment pack option or an AD pack, or even campaign currency pack, trade bar pack and a sh loot pack....yeah, that would be really cool. Players get choices, devs get to write some new code and it could make the dungeon desirable again...
I was lucky to get both a lostmouths horn, and a shard of orcus wand when the dungeons were new, run by few players and completed by an even smaller number, then never again despite a sick number of more runs... never got artefakt, or other BoE "Jackpot"-drops anywhere else, but there, I was late to the party. I have a theory derived from that: the drop rates of thouse items aren´t static, the chance decreases based on how many of thouse are on the ah, or even the total number of unbound copies existing. Also there might be a hard, server wide cap how many may drop within a given period of time...in short there are systems in place to make sure "Jackpots" remain "Jackpots", and favors thouse, who, through stats, connections or sheer luck, are among thouse first past a "gate".
want the truth? sort of used by tobacco tv ads, "The Truth"?
it really feel like playing "GPG" instead of "RPG". what it means? "Gambler Play Games" with odds stacked againist nearly everyone except the house wins!
Well over a week since posting this and zero meaningful dialogue from the powers that be. Silence speaks louder than words here...
They hope this blows over and people just stop complaining, BUT still spending. Once this fiasco does go live they hope the blowback is less intense.
Meanwhile the box in a box, and the three chest lottery in edemo part 2 are going to continue driving players away.
Check the preview shard threads... They're a ghost town compared to how those threads used to be. Before mod 10 drove the majority of top notch players - players that provided priceless feedback - away from the game indefinitely.
And just a few weeks passed the mod 10 release, and after this insulting key debacle, my alliance is just about dead. My guild is all but dead, with very few of the dedicated players logging in occasionally to run a few dailies. Then they see the futility of it all and log off, to play games that actually cause fun emotions...
DEVS GET A CLUE AND MAKE DRASTIC CHANGES NOW! YOUR GAME IS DIEING MORE AND MORE, EVERY DAY! ARE YOU SO BLINDED BY YOUR GREED, THAT YOU CANT SEE IT!?
For how they've treated the XBOX player base over and over again. This game really is on life support. Because of the Coalward removal from the tradebar merchant, I lost all my guildies from my old guild. It took awhile to recover from that as I'm now in a great guild that's active. And now they just keep taking away from this game. Let's list what they've taken away from us or are going to take away.
1) They lied about the Coalescent Wards and Preservation Wards removal on the trade bar merchant
2) They nerf the Dragon's Hoard Enchants to have a "cap"
3) They nerf power sharing from Underdark rings when all they had to do was "fix" the infinite loop where people's power reached into insane numbers. My feeling is, if there's a tooltip, allow it to work, don't put closet nerfs on it so it won't work.
4) They nerfed the haste cleric into the dirt.
5) They've going to remove mod 5 set bonuses
6) They nerfed salvage so it pays out less for all the work that was put in.
7) Because of Fangbreaker's Island, master crafting gear loses its value as its no longer BIS.
And casual players suffer because of the amount of grinding to restore that gear.
What else did I miss?
1) yes that hurt, but they have to live of their work too, and they deserve it imo, we´re still around after all ;-) 2)hardly noticing this 4)actually, I still use gift of haste on my DC, its still good, I even enjoy the freedom to use other powers, instead of being forced to run heal over times in every power slot 5)they are overpowered, and were intended to become obsolete when with gear with thousands of hp more was released. Also, it sort of isn´t right that somthing no longer accessable by playing is BIS. 6)only on blue drops and some rings iirc, other items even went up, this one only really hit the new/weak players imo, but them it hit hard 7)every new mod comes with new items which are an improvement, its the way its meant to be, and Masterwork gear is behind an even more unpleasant "wall" than the new BIS items: you have to be in a guild with hall rank 12+ with a certain boon structure rank 6...which means haveing to leave the guild where the friends you´ve made so far are, and join a big one, thats probably big because of enforcing some nasty attendence and/or contribution quotas...
What else did you miss: Gateway for PC obviously, I used it alot, even bought a smartphone with it being the main purpose... well I´m around since when Dread Ring was the newest area, and for years, lag was considered this games biggest problem, the one most whined about in chats, and I felt it a lot, on good days it was a bearable nuisiance, on bad days it made whole areas, or even the whole game completely unplayable. About 45% of that lag went away for me when I moved to a different house in the same district of my beautiful hometown...apperently that previous houses wires and other hardware weren´t in a good state(but Neverwinter seems more sensitive to this than any other game I´ve played). Multiple months later gateway was shut down, and, at least for me, more than 90% of the remaining lagginess was gone. Due to this I´m enjoying the game more than ever.
You also missed AD from leadership, direct AD from Invocation, countless foundry exploits...
3) I´m not a fan of the underdark rings, but yes, the description must match the effect: Imho, now that lag/instability is mostly out of the way, incomplete/inaccurate or outright wrong descriptions of feats, powers and items are the games biggest problem. How/wehter things really work, and even harder to find out, how/wether things work together, isn´t possible to find out reading the descripioons, and the log channels aren´t that big of a help either. If I understood correctly all working builds were figured out useing a tool thats either only available on the preview server or is even a different program(really don´t know what exactly it is)...I only started being a succsessful player when I started reading guides, and tweaking the builds found there to match my preferences.
@greyhawk: the game always felt nearly dead b4 a release of a new mod, due to lots of core players moving to preview, and many feeling thats a perfect time to take a break, so they´re full of energy when the new mod launches...
@fogcrow my alliance was much more active before mod 10 dropped than after. After we got brand new content - with terrible grinds - and after this key nerf.
When players should be returning and the long term players should all be devouring the new content I'm seeing dead guild chat, and alliance chat. Only the occasional CN or edemo or DF. No chat about the new stuff, or 'hey check this out' dialog. It's eerily quiet for right after an expansion...
Some of it could be the time of year, with all the new games coming out, but that should be a HUGE red flag to the devs. They have got to right this listing ship before it takes on even more water. They have GOT to do something to get people enjoying the game! Or those other diversions, coupled with the bust of mod 10 and this insulting key fiasco, will keep players AWAY from NW.
Instead we get dead quiet, with no back and forth on key issues.
It's unbelievable how they're just letting things fester. Not just this chest drop stuff either. The end game just isn't fun enough for people. They've lost that loving feeling...
There is no need to put in a new system to make changes just use the one that is in place to buffer the agony of how cruel the RNG can be at times.
it can be as simple as,
Legendary rings are on the twisted ichor vendor for 10 twisted ichor. epic rings for 400 protector seals for +4, 300 for the + 3. because if you have these you have put your time in andif youhave notgot the ring you wanted then you can get one with currancy. Chest drops in epic dungeons, if you are going to call it epic make the rewards epic, 2000GS to get in you should be getting rank 7 enchants from the chest, if it is going to drop refinement then maybe Rare not common with a chance at a epic. as far as different loot, random chance of area appropriate profesion pack, companion upgrade token packs, Mount upgrade items, Bonding stones at appropriate rank like enchants and or weapon/armor enchantments not shards.
1600 GS rank 6 enchants at least, artifacts, in these places most players are just getting thier gear figured out and set this would help, refinement as with epic chests a chance at better but this time common with a good chance of rare,and the same chances, for someof the itemsi listed above.
Raids, Demo/Tiamat/well of dragons/Mdemo and such andthing 10+ people, should be rank 7-9 enchants depending on difficulty such as heroic dragons in well of dragons are 7 but master demo and tiamat are rank 8-9, for those encounters with chests 1 in 500 should drop a epic lore appropriate mount, meaning tiamat can drop drakes demo dropping underdark mounts and such, 1 in 1000 a legendary.
what i'm trying to say here is buffer the RNG put Col wards in the vault of Piety make them character bound put them in chests character bound i really wouldnt care if i couldn't sell them, or scale weapon/armor enchant chances from 1% to25 startingat shards to20 combining two lessers to15 afer then 1 after that but 1% right off the bat is just mean, Throw us a bone.
A way to upgrade mounts similar to companions not locked behind my wallet, if you think this might be a lore issue i give you the fact the fact that Wizards in Forgotten Realms are always experimenting on magics including ways to improve travle, mounts included. if i am not mistaken One of the Harpell Wizards ( bad example i know) rides a Frog after experiemnting with his horse.
Companion upgrade tokens, even if it is only 5 would be HUGE and wouldgo a LONG way in helping many.
Those are just a few ideas, Thank you for listening and for takeing suggestions.
This is a summary of what i thought i would see as suggestions from the Community on what loot should be. LMAO... rediculous.
If you make things super easy (400 Protector Seals... 10 Twisted ichor... LMAO) then they become pointless...
1 month or less and NO ONE will be doing edemo... and those who try to will not be able to find a group to do so...
2 months... and most average players will be close to Best in Slot and all content would be trivial.
Please... let's give the devs some REASONABLE ideas about how loot should be.
Not let me do the dungeon 10 times and have everything I want from it.
“Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
OK. I haven't read All the posts because there are too many, but disregard this if it is already suggested!
This is an important suggestion though. Please make the keys account bound instead of character bound. Otherwise it will put support classes in a serious disadvantage which at the end makes dungeon runs harder. It takes a lot longer for DC/GF/OP to run the same content and if you ask them to run campaigns everyday to make the key, a lot of them just stop doing it after a while.
@arashkam I play GF and OP. It is a ball-ache the grind on this and keys lol.
A big issue is no reasonable mechanism of ~2.6k to 3.1k.
Im lvling my GF tank as desperate need 4 support classes but once i hit 2.5k this week ill not focus on lvling as its just not worth it.
Im completely ignoring FBI until they make suitable progression from 2.6k to 3.1k...which is basically either coalwards or pay millions for enchantments...based on a refining lvl of 36k and minimial ingame AD rewards...screw that.
Can we get BTT or is this a new "mimimi" thread? There are enough threads where you can claim whats wrong in this game ( in ur opnion), but this thread is about what WE want about they key changes and the rewards.
Well on Xbone I unlocked FBI over the weekend, queued up got in got trolled, everyone left, then two hours later was still waiting to get in, due to the party mix requirements not being able to find a mix. Totally ridiculous, so we now have to wait for clerics to make it through to the end before we can even get in lol.
Comments
I think you summed it up perfectly right there. This game is set-up so that the only people who can really reap rewards are whales that can afford to buy whatever they need. The rest suffer through endgame grinds storing everything under the sun. Salvage for double AD so you can afford things to upgrade, RP for double refinement in the hopes they can get an item or two upgraded in that time just to start the process again all over. It's not a casual player friendly game. It's not an alt friendly game. It's set up so the people who have succeed and the people that don't have...well sorry but get back to grinding.
And just to get this straight, I don't mind whales at all. More power to you if you got in early and made a killing in playing the markets. That's the way some people like to play and I don't knock them for it. The point here is that the other people shouldn't have to suffer through a year of grinding just to hit 3.5 IL on one character.
Sorry for the mini-rant but the point of this all is...better rewards please.
it can be as simple as,
Legendary rings are on the twisted ichor vendor for 10 twisted ichor.
epic rings for 400 protector seals for +4, 300 for the + 3.
because if you have these you have put your time in andif youhave notgot the ring you wanted then you can get one with currancy.
Chest drops in epic dungeons, if you are going to call it epic make the rewards epic, 2000GS to get in you should be getting rank 7 enchants from the chest, if it is going to drop refinement then maybe Rare not common with a chance at a epic. as far as different loot, random chance of area appropriate profesion pack, companion upgrade token packs, Mount upgrade items, Bonding stones at appropriate rank like enchants and or weapon/armor enchantments not shards.
1600 GS rank 6 enchants at least, artifacts, in these places most players are just getting thier gear figured out and set this would help, refinement as with epic chests a chance at better but this time common with a good chance of rare,and the same chances, for someof the itemsi listed above.
Raids, Demo/Tiamat/well of dragons/Mdemo and such andthing 10+ people, should be rank 7-9 enchants depending on difficulty such as heroic dragons in well of dragons are 7 but master demo and tiamat are rank 8-9, for those encounters with chests 1 in 500 should drop a epic lore appropriate mount, meaning tiamat can drop drakes demo dropping underdark mounts and such, 1 in 1000 a legendary.
what i'm trying to say here is buffer the RNG put Col wards in the vault of Piety make them character bound put them in chests character bound i really wouldnt care if i couldn't sell them, or scale weapon/armor enchant chances from 1% to25 startingat shards to20 combining two lessers to15 afer then 1 after that but 1% right off the bat is just mean, Throw us a bone.
A way to upgrade mounts similar to companions not locked behind my wallet, if you think this might be a lore issue i give you the fact the fact that Wizards in Forgotten Realms are always experimenting on magics including ways to improve travle, mounts included. if i am not mistaken One of the Harpell Wizards ( bad example i know) rides a Frog after experiemnting with his horse.
Companion upgrade tokens, even if it is only 5 would be HUGE and wouldgo a LONG way in helping many.
Those are just a few ideas, Thank you for listening and for takeing suggestions.
It is utterly ridiculous to have to grind anything - heroics, dungeons, or skirmishes - for a CHANCE to get a NECESSARY piece of equipment with no other way to get it. I am one of those "never get a drop" rng'ers. I have a friend who ran hundreds or more of whatever it was you needed to run to get your black ice arm piece. (before my time) I joined shortly after Mod 3 and by the time I was grinding for end game gear we had thankfully past that grind. He never got that drop until maybe a year later when they finally offered it for sale for a limited time in the zen store.
There are many of us in the game on whom rng does not favor - period! If you're not going to rework your rng formula, then the least you can do is make it possible for those of us on the wrong side of the formula to eventually get our gear by means of paying with campaign currency.
I think if you're surprised to hear that someone did 1000 runs and didn't get any good loot, you should rank up just one of those characters you played until level 15 - and do it without any dev mode, without any guild, and just play the content as the average player has to. Don't take gifts, don't get carried through all the content by a well-meaning group or guild, pug for dungeons and skirmishes, and don't cave and pay anything to pass any content. I think you'll understand much better.
2. Thanks for this new discussion here (at least 1 of zebulars comments in the other thred was a tiny bit helpful)
3. A Discussion should be between the playerbase (moderated by our Moderators) and the dev-team. Sadly I didn´t see any post strum (you opend the discussion) or mimicking (you asked for the feedback) here...except for the opener.
4. My Suggestions:
- To be honest...I wouldn´t mind the so called "Bugfix" on the following Dungeons and Skirmishes (I will use shortcuts...if some devs don´t understand them, feel free to contact me for explanations). VT, Elol, ESoT, KR, EToS, ECC, EGWD, Tiamat and MC(by the way...legendary dragon key is not working in MC). I only go there for Seals or to complete a Stronghold Quest...but that only goes for me. It would be a pain in the A.. if I would neeed an Artifact from there. So My Solutions here would be:
-- VT, Elol, MC, KR, Tiamat --> increase the droprate for Artefacts and Artefactgear in the Bonuschest by factor 10-15
-- ESoT --> increase the droprate for Haarl's Book in the Bonuschest by factor 10-15
-- EToS, ECC, EGWD --> Since there is no Bonuschest here...Drastically increase the Droprate of the Bosses (2/3 Bosses should drop Epic gear at at least 70% of the runs), Remove epic loot from the chest, 300 Seals would be better...more to this point later
- At the the following Dungeons and Skirmishes the so called "Bugfix" would hurt very much. PoM, ToDG, CN, Demo. My Solutions here would be:
--PoM, ToDG, --> Put +5 Rings in a Box so we can choose the ring we get. Increase the droprate of the Ring(box) by factor 2-4. We need to be able to build 2-3 Keys per day, 1 for PoM, 1 for ToDG and 1 for nDemo (since you love this so much...it's to bring them in line with other Dungeons and Skirmishes)
--CN, Demo --> Put +5 Rings in a Box so we can choose the ring we get. Increase the droprate of the Ring(box) by factor 2-4. Increase the droprate for Artefacts and Artefactgear in the Bonuschest by factor 10-15. We need to be able to build 2 Keys per day, 1 for CN, 1 for EDemo. Increase the amount of resources from the Chest, so that it´s possible to restart the Keyproduction with Goldrank, as it is in Pom and ToDG.
- FBI
--> Increase the droprate for the Artefact in the Bonuschest by factor 10-15
--> Remove Sapphire from the Gearbox (thats all I would ask for this Box in the Box...RnG here is fine)
--> Even though the RnG for the Gear in the Box is fine, there is something wrong with the concept. If you enter FBI, you go there for Relic Gear, but the fact, that Relic gear is only in the "Bonus"-chest is questionable. There should be a way to get your Relic Gear without ever touching this chest (as it is with every other gear in the game)...I would love to see the "normal"-chest to drop me 20 Seals of Ostoria (or something like that) and a vandor to sell me what I want. (with the common prices of 400,400,400,600 you would need 90 runs to get your unrestored gear...thats ok for grinding)
- AoS (ASSAULT ON SVARDBORG)
--> Only tested it a few times...but whatever the droprates of the superiour Marks is, you have to increase it or add them to the campaignstore...noone wants to run this 1000 times to get the weapons to max.
- General Suggestions about loot
--> Rifinementpoints are the common way to upgrade the loot. This holds the problem, that with more and more Refinementstuff, the value goes to waste. So If you add Refinementstuff to the Loottables it would be important to upgade it´s value at the same time. I have 2 ideas how to do this (the rest of the community will hate me for bringing them up^^)
1. Nerf Wanderer's Fortune Insignia Bonus, so that the cap is Accountwide (as it is now, I can easily get enought BtA Refinement Points between two Dobbleevents to upgrade 4-6 Artefactgearparts from uncommon to legendary.
2. Mythic Artefact-Gear...Well not much to say about this...If you give me more and more Refinementstuff, than give me something to use it for. (Artefact Armor Parts would be another Possibility, but only for the far future)
--> Enchantment Bundles could be another fine way to upgrade the Loot...maybe it´s better for the market if you would add some Packs of 10-15 R5 Enchants, than adding R8 Enchants to old dungeons.
--> Remove Peridot from any Dungeon Loottable
--> Epic BoP Insignias on every 3K+ Dungeon or Skirmish (%-EXP-Insignias could drop as BtA)
--> Unbound Skins as rare drops...(someone wrote a nice post about this)
--> Companion Upgrade Tokens would also be a nice additional loot
--> If I buy a key after finishing off the Endboss, I want to be able to unlock the chest!
--> ZAX Vauchers...to change AD500:1Zen directly with Cryptic (value 100[uncommon], 200[rare] and 500[epic])
//ZAX Vauchers...to change AD400:1Zen directly with Cryptic (value 20[uncommon], 40[rare] and 100[epic])
-ZAX
--> Even though I doupt that this will be implemented, I would love to see Cryptic sell me Zen for like 700:1 AD. It would still be way better to buy from other ppl but at least you can bypass the tailback we have right now.
--> Please don´t increase the ZAX, cause than the loot would suck even more.
Double refinment week-end is usually about every 2 months, and you're telling me that you can get, only by Wanderer's Fortune,
something between 18 and 27 MILLIONS refinment points (that is around 36-54 STACKS of green resonance stones, enough points to upgrade like you said, between 4-6 artifact pieces of gear from nothing to legendary).
Considering the drop rate of Wanderer's Fortune, even if it's better than any Dragon Hoard's / Quartermaster or others, you have to be playing like 20 hours a day, because i'm playing decently 3-4 hours a day and i'm barely getting in 2 months 5-6 millions refinments points, but not only from Wanderer's Fortune, but also Dragon Hoard's enchantments, dragon runs (unbound), CN special drops (shattered stuff), SH HE (unbound), Maze Engine daily (unbound).
So please, PLEASE do not ask for a nerf of the droprate of Wanderer's Fortune, it's not because you're a hardcore player and you can make 20M refinments points only by this way on 2 months that this is the case for everyone. This insignia bonus may be one of the best things on the game currently considering the endless grind/
That way all the ppl with 1 Mainchar wouldn´t even recognice the "Nerf"
Edit: Sharandar....20min = ca 30.000 RP x 60 Days = 1.800.000 RP x 10Chars = 18.000.000 RP in 2 Months a 3.5h/day
...sure, yoou have to quit dungeons/daylies while you farm for this, but it's still easily doable.
Everthing in this chest should be BoE, so key buyers could selll it to get more keys or just make money
You could add:
1-) Dungeon/Campaing thematic fashion Stuff
2-) Purple Insigneas
3-) Purple Marks (Potency/Power/Stability/Union) you could make every dungeon has a chance to drop a specific Mark, this way you can make people run some almost dead dungeon's like EGWD...
4-) Increase the drop of seals and remove the armor so we can choose what we get...
5-) Increase the drop of artifacts/Belt...
6-) Dungeon/Campaing thematic companions and mounts Like wolfs in EGWG, Dragons in ELOL... (some can drop comanions other can drop mounts...)
7-) Change the rings to Boxes rings (so we can choose) or build some place where we can trade these rings
8-) Always give us some trade Bar or something similar, so we can get what we want after some time (even if takes long...)
Now about those chests Keys:
Unifie the keys by tiers, to make easyer to buy and to stock keys, Reasons :
1-) because dungeons are done with 5 person and will not be easy to get 5 man to run with single uses keys...
2-) This allow us to build more keys at once, and encourage people to run old content to build more keys,
3-) This also dont put pressure on small guild banks , because we can donate one specific stuff to the coffer and make keys with the others areas currency
4-) This allow us to have more keys but not enough to make people to stop buying, i believe those who buy keys are the ones that run the same stuff non stop, so they will still feel the need to buy keys instead doing old areas and wait to get keys for more runs...
5-) This make the Keys in Zen Store more desirable since they can open chests in any dungeon form their tier.
About general drops
Make all BoP refining stuff BoA:
This way we can send not necessary RP to another toon, so we can run Dungeons or Lair's with our main toon and feed alts with stuff... and wille runnig those places we can also get currency to make more Keys.
(Sorry for the bad english is self larned.)
Another note, it seem very quite here, mostly just players poking around....
And, of course it's quiet... This was never about actually listening and responding to the suggestions. This post is solely to give the remaining players hope that something worthwhile comes of this nerf. If they up any drop rates - IF - it will me unnoticeable to the players but they'll say they listened and hope more people don't leave.
Their communication is terrible. Any dev posts are about the silly stuff in any thread. Never actual useful communication. So sad...
Also, I previously played on the same account as my wife. So using your idea, one of us would have been screwed over all because you think you get too much RP. Just...stop.
To the community: let's keep the hate alive so the devs don't think we have calmed down, we haven't.
[The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)
I am not sure exactly what I expect in the chest at the end but a rank 8, a blue shard, some refinement and a blue ring is of no interest to me after 20-30 minutes in a dungeon, i would not take that loot and if I did it would just end up in the sh coffer.
What if the rewards in the chest had options, like choices to grab a pack with like loot in it, maybe something similar to the packs that drop from lock boxes, like a gear pack option if I am after gear, an enchantment pack option or an AD pack, or even campaign currency pack, trade bar pack and a sh loot pack....yeah, that would be really cool. Players get choices, devs get to write some new code and it could make the dungeon desirable again...
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
Right now the only appealing aspects are the leveling content and.. that's about it IMO. Leveling alts through campaigns is punishing slow. Mod 10 is the worst expansion in my storied MMO history. Communication is laughable. The list goes on.
I still find fun things to do but they have NOT earned any more money from me til they rewrite a large chunk of the game
I have a theory derived from that: the drop rates of thouse items aren´t static, the chance decreases based on how many of thouse are on the ah, or even the total number of unbound copies existing. Also there might be a hard, server wide cap how many may drop within a given period of time...in short there are systems in place to make sure "Jackpots" remain "Jackpots", and favors thouse, who, through stats, connections or sheer luck, are among thouse first past a "gate".
it really feel like playing "GPG" instead of "RPG". what it means? "Gambler Play Games" with odds stacked againist nearly everyone except the house wins!
They hope this blows over and people just stop complaining, BUT still spending. Once this fiasco does go live they hope the blowback is less intense.
Meanwhile the box in a box, and the three chest lottery in edemo part 2 are going to continue driving players away.
Check the preview shard threads... They're a ghost town compared to how those threads used to be. Before mod 10 drove the majority of top notch players - players that provided priceless feedback - away from the game indefinitely.
And just a few weeks passed the mod 10 release, and after this insulting key debacle, my alliance is just about dead. My guild is all but dead, with very few of the dedicated players logging in occasionally to run a few dailies. Then they see the futility of it all and log off, to play games that actually cause fun emotions...
DEVS GET A CLUE AND MAKE DRASTIC CHANGES NOW! YOUR GAME IS DIEING MORE AND MORE, EVERY DAY! ARE YOU SO BLINDED BY YOUR GREED, THAT YOU CANT SEE IT!?
1) yes that hurt, but they have to live of their work too, and they deserve it imo, we´re still around after all ;-)
2)hardly noticing this
4)actually, I still use gift of haste on my DC, its still good, I even enjoy the freedom to use other powers, instead of being forced to run heal over times in every power slot
5)they are overpowered, and were intended to become obsolete when with gear with thousands of hp more was released. Also, it sort of isn´t right that somthing no longer accessable by playing is BIS.
6)only on blue drops and some rings iirc, other items even went up, this one only really hit the new/weak players imo, but them it hit hard
7)every new mod comes with new items which are an improvement, its the way its meant to be, and Masterwork gear is behind an even more unpleasant "wall" than the new BIS items: you have to be in a guild with hall rank 12+ with a certain boon structure rank 6...which means haveing to leave the guild where the friends you´ve made so far are, and join a big one, thats probably big because of enforcing some nasty attendence and/or contribution quotas...
What else did you miss: Gateway for PC obviously, I used it alot, even bought a smartphone with it being the main purpose... well I´m around since when Dread Ring was the newest area, and for years, lag was considered
this games biggest problem, the one most whined about in chats, and I felt it a lot, on good days it was a bearable nuisiance, on bad days it made whole areas, or even the whole game completely unplayable. About 45% of that lag went away for me when I moved to a different house in the same district of my beautiful hometown...apperently that previous houses wires and other hardware weren´t in a good state(but Neverwinter seems more sensitive to this than any other game I´ve played). Multiple months later gateway was shut down, and, at least for me, more than 90% of the remaining lagginess was gone.
Due to this I´m enjoying the game more than ever.
You also missed AD from leadership, direct AD from Invocation, countless foundry exploits...
3) I´m not a fan of the underdark rings, but yes, the description must match the effect: Imho, now that lag/instability is mostly out of the way, incomplete/inaccurate or outright wrong descriptions of feats, powers and items are the games biggest problem. How/wehter things really work, and even harder to find out, how/wether things work together, isn´t possible to find out reading the descripioons, and the log channels aren´t that big of a help either. If I understood correctly all working builds were figured out useing a tool thats either only available on the preview server or is even a different program(really don´t know what exactly it is)...I only started being a succsessful player when I started reading guides, and tweaking the builds found there
to match my preferences.
@greyhawk: the game always felt nearly dead b4 a release of a new mod, due to lots of core players moving to preview, and many feeling thats a perfect time to take a break, so they´re full of energy when the new mod launches...
When players should be returning and the long term players should all be devouring the new content I'm seeing dead guild chat, and alliance chat. Only the occasional CN or edemo or DF. No chat about the new stuff, or 'hey check this out' dialog. It's eerily quiet for right after an expansion...
Some of it could be the time of year, with all the new games coming out, but that should be a HUGE red flag to the devs. They have got to right this listing ship before it takes on even more water. They have GOT to do something to get people enjoying the game! Or those other diversions, coupled with the bust of mod 10 and this insulting key fiasco, will keep players AWAY from NW.
Instead we get dead quiet, with no back and forth on key issues.
It's unbelievable how they're just letting things fester. Not just this chest drop stuff either. The end game just isn't fun enough for people. They've lost that loving feeling...
If you make things super easy (400 Protector Seals... 10 Twisted ichor... LMAO) then they become pointless...
1 month or less and NO ONE will be doing edemo... and those who try to will not be able to find a group to do so...
2 months... and most average players will be close to Best in Slot and all content would be trivial.
Please... let's give the devs some REASONABLE ideas about how loot should be.
Not let me do the dungeon 10 times and have everything I want from it.
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
This is an important suggestion though. Please make the keys account bound instead of character bound. Otherwise it will put support classes in a serious disadvantage which at the end makes dungeon runs harder. It takes a lot longer for DC/GF/OP to run the same content and if you ask them to run campaigns everyday to make the key, a lot of them just stop doing it after a while.
many players are now tightening up on ADs and not spending like it had.
A big issue is no reasonable mechanism of ~2.6k to 3.1k.
Im lvling my GF tank as desperate need 4 support classes but once i hit 2.5k this week ill not focus on lvling as its just not worth it.
Im completely ignoring FBI until they make suitable progression from 2.6k to 3.1k...which is basically either coalwards or pay millions for enchantments...based on a refining lvl of 36k and minimial ingame AD rewards...screw that.
@mimicking#6533
All my friends bar 2 have gone back to ESO...the rewards in this game for actually playing are a joke.
Seriously poor situation tbh!