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Dungeon Key Changes

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  • darkstarrfoffdarkstarrfoff Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    This is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> hilarious. You call this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> a bug? Yet when it was eating keys for looking you FIXED IT to stop that. So just when people think maybe you're getting your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> together you decide to make things even worse for the players and in doing so RPG yourselves in the feet. Look at the Zen backlog, you're quite obviously pissing people off.

    This change:
    As part of this change we are also lowering the cost of the Zen store item “Legendary Dragon Key 5-Pack” from 300 Zen to 250 Zen.

    is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> laughable. You think eating a key ON EVERY BOX is acceptable and now you simply lower the paid keys by 50? If you think that's acceptable at all you're all bigger idiots than I though possible. I've purchased those keys and it's hard to get the value back as is when you can check boxes. 50 zen less will not help when you can't. These should be no more than 100 zen for 5 or even 10.

    The RNG is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, I run CN and I can end up with a useless shard rather than even a nearly worthless runestone or what I really want, a Rank 8. A majority of the time the bosses drop nothing as well. It's ridiculous and if you think I'm running anything else that has that much RNG when you all are now hiding the contents now too, you've lost it.

    Either make keys trivial to gain, all of the campaign ones and drastically lower the Zen key cost or you will see people simply not using them. Either way the feature to see what's inside was never a bug or you wouldn't have fixed the bug where it was eating keys. You doing this breaks the very little trust people had in you developers. It makes you look shifty and slimy.

    Get your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> together and learn from feedback.​​
  • maulwurfmann01maulwurfmann01 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 27 Arc User
    There are not enought Hamsters to unicorn the sweety out of your teddybear!!!!
  • issssshoisssssho Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 105 Arc User
    Ok, so lets sum up the desicion to do this - you decided to mark mechanism that works literally ever since mod 1 as bug because you had to find excuse to change it the way it benefits you more. So instead you just added some cool zen thing to buy, you decided to remove a feature players have been using since day 1 and as compensation - lower key price so it looks like its worth buying (20k ad worth key for 3k worth salvage - seems legit, cool move), Also with changes you made in economy trying (and failing) to fix it - now you want to increase zax exchnge that is already 6m+ zen long ?
    I'm not trying to be rude or sarcastic I am just honestly wondering - who is in charge of making those desicions and are you sure those desicions are for the better future of the game and its community ?
    You keep saying you want to increase amount of players playing this game, but constantly, your actions prove us otherwise.
    With great power comes great electricity bill.

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  • fizgigtiznalkie#4436 fizgigtiznalkie Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    edited October 2016

    Just a reminder from your friendly neighborhood moderation member to please make sure that when you light your torches, grab your pitchforks and apply the tar and feathers, that you do your best to keep it within the bounds of the forum code of conduct. Thanks.

    I now return you to your regularly schedule rage


    With that being said...

    image

    Mocking your players and being deceptive about the reasoning behind the change (like stating it was never an intended feature) is probably not the best way to announce a change like this.

    A simple "we're making you use a key to look in the chest but updating the loot table for better drops" would probably be met with much better results, but also better be truthful. If people still keep pulling +1 rings and armor 20IL below what they're wearing, you'll just lose players.
  • karakla1karakla1 Member Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    plat.png
    Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
  • rafaeldarafaelda Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 662 Arc User
    isssssho said:

    Also with changes you made in economy trying (and failing) to fix it - now you want to increase zax exchnge that is already 6m+ zen long ?

    I was over 7m last night already...
  • zwalkzwalk Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    That moment when all your friends PM you to tell you they're quitting and link you this post.

    GG Arc/PW another obvious money grab.
  • forumnamesuxsforumnamesuxs Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 490 Arc User
    The game is dying. How it has survived this long, and how mod6 didn't kill it entirely , I will never truly understand. Good game, Cryptic. Unless this is bringing with it a MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSIVE boost to the drop rate on good stuff, as well as removing the chest in a chest comedy, I will keep playing until I find something else worth my time, and when I do, some random players will be blessed by millions upon millions worth of enchantments from a random fed up previously loyal customer, just to make sure I keep away this time.
    However, considering how you completely ignored your own feedback threads on loot, I don't see any hope in this.
    Wolves, big as a horse! I need new pants!

  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited October 2016
    Reminder Community Moderators are not staff members. They are players who assist with certain aspects of the forum.
    The Doctor GIF is Ironzerg's opinion of the change as a player.

    He was trying to be lighthearted in a request to keep the understandable frustration somewhat reigned in. No mocking intended at all.
  • cdnbisoncdnbison Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User
    That's 15 different (non-zen) keys that players are expected to keep on hand. That's a lot of storage space (not to mention the time spent gathering materials to craft them).

    It'd be nice if Cryptic could at least simplify the keys to something like:
    - (Current top-left dungeon)
    - Campaign dungeon (craftable in any campaign, until sable in any)
    - T2
    - Levelling dungeon

    In an ideal world, these keys would also work on any chest listed below them (so a Campaign key would work in etos, for example).

    There. 4 keys total. And so much simpler for a player to track, not to mention easier on the bag space (and sell in the Zen shop, if you like).

    As for 'peeking', if it were easier to get keys, and if needed rewards (edemo, FBI) weren't gated behind a key requirement, I could get behind this. As it stands, though, this isn't a great move.
  • zwalkzwalk Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    4-6 years pass with this 'bug' now we fix it.

    4 years of stronghold grinding availablilty, now it's an 'exploit'.

    Cmonnnn
  • rapo973rapo973 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 831 Arc User
    Just finished CN. +1 rings in both chests. Are they the incredible rewards I will have to spend the keys for?

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  • fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    Why are we even trying?

    If TOP (management) made that decision we can rise, fork, bug, hamster on them. GM won't do anything. DEVs wont do anything. No one will do anything. Decision is made. Period.

    They ignore bugs we post on preview. They ignore our efforts to make this game better. They just count each of us as individual zen/usd source.

    If there won't be any serious talk with devs or owner's while you (devs/owners) do such a move, and you won't look into unresolved bugs we, community, posted earlier, then GG - it was fun to be part of this community and I found good friends here but hamster - I'm done, thanks all.

    And don't be shocked if MAJORITY




    will leave.

    Best regards!
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  • kvetkvet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,700 Arc User
    .
    zwalk said:

    4-6 years pass with this 'bug' now we fix it.



    4 years of stronghold grinding availablilty, now it's an 'exploit'.



    Cmonnnn

    @zwalk Did I miss another crazy change? What is the SH thing you mentioned?
  • luks707luks707 Member Posts: 230 Arc User


    I'm not usually someone who rages at people but saying this feature is a bug is intolerable.
    In fact - I normally never come here because I feel a lot of the doomsaying and criticism in this forum is over the top.
    THIS IS DIFFERENT!
    Seriously - you should apologise for this post.

    In addition to this the change your are propsing dishonestly is a terrible one. There was no need to change this. FBI already forces you to use your key for RNG and look at how few people play FBI (well that and as we said from preview, the rewards are too low). Forcing people to use real money to run will make people simply stop. It is incredibly demotivating and will widen the gap between the rich and the poor.
    If you need tips on keys - It would be amazing if there was a keyring for all the keys (on the currencies tab perhaps?) to free up bagspace. But calling this a bug and even thinking about changing a very sensible feature is just unbelievable poor taste. Please stop this now and apologise to everyone.
  • sockmunkeysockmunkey Member Posts: 4,622 Arc User
    cdnbison said:

    That's 15 different (non-zen) keys that players are expected to keep on hand. That's a lot of storage space (not to mention the time spent gathering materials to craft them).



    It'd be nice if Cryptic could at least simplify the keys to something like:

    - (Current top-left dungeon)

    - Campaign dungeon (craftable in any campaign, until sable in any)

    - T2

    - Levelling dungeon



    In an ideal world, these keys would also work on any chest listed below them (so a Campaign key would work in etos, for example).



    There. 4 keys total. And so much simpler for a player to track, not to mention easier on the bag space (and sell in the Zen shop, if you like).



    As for 'peeking', if it were easier to get keys, and if needed rewards (edemo, FBI) weren't gated behind a key requirement, I could get behind this. As it stands, though, this isn't a great move.

    +1 This is how it should be
  • cromejohnsencromejohnsen Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 207 Arc User
    dont forget that speed leveling your character on SH map or any other lvl boosting map is also considered an exploit. Next time we run elol and get 2k ad its an exploit as well and you tune it down to 1ad ?
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    kvet said:


    Did I miss another crazy change? What is the SH thing you mentioned?

    @kvet

    Stronghold powerlevelling has been patched out by making SH mobs not give buckets of XP to lowbies (fixed on PC recently, consoles today with SKT). Considering the game has not yet been out for 4 years (nevermind Strongholds, nevermind the change to make high-level mobs intentionally worth that much XP for high-level players in the first place), someone is being a smidge hyperbolic.

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  • kvetkvet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,700 Arc User
    All I can really say here is: SPEND NO MONEY ON THIS GAME. Don't reward this clearly deceptive and idiotic behavior by giving Cryptic any money. If you give cryptic any money, you are telling them that this sort of deceptive change is OK - that means YOU are part of the problem.

    STOP paying Cryptic money. If that causes the game to close - fine, there's plenty of games to play out there. Maybe other Studios will learn a lesson from Cryptic's failures here. Hopefully, the lesson will be learned by Cryptic instead and we can all happily keep playing.
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    Thanks @ambisinisterr

    Yeah, just to be clear. I think the change is tough to swallow for a lot of players. The root cause is that players just don't feel like the loot offered at the end of these dungeons justifies the "expense" of using a key.

    @mimicking#6533 Think about it this way. What if you ran an adventure at your table, your players made it through the lair of the angry midget mimics, and were standing before a massive treasure chest. They open it to find it's a mimic, but after they kill the mimic, they find inside it's mouth another, smaller chest...which also happens to be a mimic. But they kill THAT one...and the seven others that follow...to finally find a real treasure chest...

    Now this treasure chest is special. It requires a special key which costs your PCs over 1000 gold in rare materials and coin to create. They put the key in the lock, turn it and (with great anticipation) open it up...and inside is 27 gold, 18 copper, a mundane shortsword, two empty potion bottles and another mimic.

    What do you think their reaction would be?

    Yeah. That's the root cause. This key change doesn't really help the game. To sum up how this is playing out, the only thing that comes to mind is...

    image

    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
  • Reminder Community Moderators are not staff members. They are players who assist with certain aspects of the forum.
    The Doctor GIF is Ironzerg's opinion of the change as a player.

    He was trying to be lighthearted in a request to keep the understandable frustration somewhat reigned in. No mocking intended at all.

    Didn't know that thanks, thought the devs were mocking the outrage on that "regularly scheduled..." bit. I'm a developer and all the agencies/clients I work with would never let their communities self manage.
  • kvetkvet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,700 Arc User

    kvet said:


    Did I miss another crazy change? What is the SH thing you mentioned?

    @kvet

    Stronghold powerlevelling has been patched out by making SH mobs not give buckets of XP to lowbies (fixed on PC recently, consoles today with SKT). Considering the game has not yet been out for 4 years (nevermind Strongholds, nevermind the change to make high-level mobs intentionally worth that much XP for high-level players in the first place), someone is being a smidge hyperbolic.

    Oh, that. Right, I recall that change, thanks for the clarification. Didn't effect me because I typically prefer levelling alts via the story quests anyway. Done 20 that way, don't much care to grind-kill for XP, WAY too boring.
  • cromejohnsencromejohnsen Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 207 Arc User
    Did this srsly get through one of you "meetings" devs? Does really any1 of you play this game at all? You even claimed to play "endgame" !! really? What happened to those voices ? Have they gone on vacation ?
  • luks707luks707 Member Posts: 230 Arc User

    I understand the players' frustration. This "bug" or oversight has been in the game for so long, it feels like an intended feature.

    From the developer's perspective though, if you use just one key over and over and over, you avoid questing and earning the materials to create a key. Not all developers are money grubbers; some want you to play the content they've created. If you don't want to earn that key through daily quests, you can purchase multiple from the zen store for less than a starbucks coffee.

    I have 11 characters, 3 of which I play frequently. Those 3 characters create keys, run dungeons, and loot both chests. I don't mind spending a key on HAMSTER; I've accepted it as part of the game (RNG). All of the HAMSTER I don't need is sent to my other characters to salvage/hoard.

    I'd be interested in hearing the design decision for having such a long timer to create a campaign key. The number of keys players can create is already limited by the amount of campaign currency they have. Why put a massive timer on it? That decision probably needs to be revisited.

    Some suggestions/solutions:
    • Reduce the time and/or materials required to make a campaign key
    • Create daily campaign quests that reward you with a key for that campaign
    • Create a weekly quest that rewards you with a legendary dragon key
    • Allow keys to be made in bulk
    • Improve the rewards from the campaign key specific chests in dungeons
    • Consolidate campaign currency or create a system for converting one to another
    • Bring back boss specific loot that isn't looted from a chest

    Have a nice day. Or don't. Your choice.

    This is the kind of comment I might have understood when they are honest about making a change. But it misses the fact that there is no way they should get away with calling a feature a bug. All the suggestions above are fine btw if cryptic was to make such a change - but seriously - THIS IS AN INTENDED FEATURE. Why else allow "decline"? In fact I always thought it was a bug that you used up your gauntlets on the chests in dread ring whether you liked it or not ...
  • kvetkvet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,700 Arc User
    edited October 2016

    Thanks @ambisinisterr

    Yeah, just to be clear. I think the change is tough to swallow for a lot of players. The root cause is that players just don't feel like the loot offered at the end of these dungeons justifies the "expense" of using a key.

    @mimicking#6533 Think about it this way. What if you ran an adventure at your table, your players made it through the lair of the angry midget mimics, and were standing before a massive treasure chest. They open it to find it's a mimic, but after they kill the mimic, they find inside it's mouth another, smaller chest...which also happens to be a mimic. But they kill THAT one...and the seven others that follow...to finally find a real treasure chest...

    Now this treasure chest is special. It requires a special key which costs your PCs over 1000 gold in rare materials and coin to create. They put the key in the lock, turn it and (with great anticipation) open it up...and inside is 27 gold, 18 copper, a mundane shortsword, two empty potion bottles and another mimic.

    What do you think their reaction would be?

    Yeah. That's the root cause. This key change doesn't really help the game. To sum up how this is playing out, the only thing that comes to mind is...

    image

    You forgot to include that it required the players to have already played an entire game session to acquire the key the previous weekend AND the key turned to dust instantly when turned, but before they saw what was in the chest.
  • luks707luks707 Member Posts: 230 Arc User

    Looks like they are getting either greedy or desperate. Neither is a good sign for the longevity of this game.

    They are also going to make all auction house mail count towards your auction limit, i.e. every unclaimed purchase will count towards your limit of 40 auctions. No more keeping purchased items in your mail if you want to sell anything:
    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1223831/sea-of-moving-ice-preview-patch-notes-nw-70-20161011a-0

    God! Another pointless change!
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    No , the real issues have only start to be vetted out.

    With mod 10 and 11.. we have gone from playing together to get things done to.. lets see, rng inside of ring lockboxes, massive solo grind walls and boring ineptly made conceptual design only to get your money.

    The root cause is that the game is off its rockers, with massive amount of QOL of issues, HIGHLIGHTED and made worse by the disaster of a decision to remove the gateway.

    ALL this has done has highlight the ever increasing angst and vexation that has been boiling up for weeks and weeks now.

    THEY ARE doing a HAMSTER poor job and its showing.


  • ludiatoreludiatore Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10 Arc User
    Way to go new guy.
    #neverwinterjustkilleditself
  • zwalkzwalk Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Pardon my being "hyperbolic" I'm a ps4 player haven't been with the game that long. My point is, it's been here fir a long time and now we're taking it away. If it was a problem there was a lot if time to fix it.
  • daak86daak86 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    kuero21 said:

    shadw2012 said:


This discussion has been closed.