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Dungeon Key Changes

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  • mcxanatosmcxanatos Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    I get needing to make money

    I understand the players' frustration. This "bug" or oversight has been in the game for so long, it feels like an intended feature.

    From the developer's perspective though, if you use just one key over and over and over, you avoid questing and earning the materials to create a key. Not all developers are money grubbers; some want you to play the content they've created. If you don't want to earn that key through daily quests, you can purchase multiple from the zen store for less than a starbucks coffee.

    I have 11 characters, 3 of which I play frequently. Those 3 characters create keys, run dungeons, and loot both chests. I don't mind spending a key on HAMSTER; I've accepted it as part of the game (RNG). All of the HAMSTER I don't need is sent to my other characters to salvage/hoard.

    I'd be interested in hearing the design decision for having such a long timer to create a campaign key. The number of keys players can create is already limited by the amount of campaign currency they have. Why put a massive timer on it? That decision probably needs to be revisited.

    Some suggestions/solutions:
    • Reduce the time and/or materials required to make a campaign key
    • Create daily campaign quests that reward you with a key for that campaign
    • Create a weekly quest that rewards you with a legendary dragon key
    • Allow keys to be made in bulk
    • Improve the rewards from the campaign key specific chests in dungeons
    • Consolidate campaign currency or create a system for converting one to another
    • Bring back boss specific loot that isn't looted from a chest

    Have a nice day. Or don't. Your choice.

    I agree with some of the things said here. I can understand not being able to reuse a key over and over again, but as you've said it's simply too difficult to get a key as it is. If they're going to implement this change to keys (which is mostly affecting Legendary Dragon Keys), then my suggestion would be to make it where Legendary Dragon Keys give a bonus to the drop % chance of items since they are bought. They then need to turn around and rework the key system to be a lot easier to obtain keys. Some of us run 5+ dungeons a night and we find that enjoyable although still expensive because you have 5,000 AD drained per run due to the epic chest but if none of us can open the special chest anymore without spending a fortune then we won't continue spamming dungeons and that's going to make the game super boring and people will quit.
  • whyratwhyrat Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    Nope. Not worth it.

    Not worth the Zen.

    Not worth the time.

    F2P can now run eDemo *or* CN once per 20 hours? Dungeon chest keys are half the price of enchanted keys but give 1/4 the value AFTER running content?

    Nope.

    Having to juggle so many keys in the first place? I've had keys sitting in the campaign window unclaimed because bag space is such an issue. And that only for keys worth using. MC? Not worth it. VT? Not worth it.

    The BEST loot that COULD drop is barely worth it. Does the whole party need Valindras? No. Most classes don't.

    But I can face roll Cloak Tower for daily AD? I have the choice of spending 5-8 minutes on trivial content, bored out of my mind. Or play level appropriate content and *PAY* TO OPEN CHESTS? This is *really* the gameplay you want to encourage? This is what I'm suposed to do to advance my toons? Because all the stuff that really advances you (ranking up enchants with c-wards, bonding stones, companions...) don't even drop in game. They MUST be bought. So you have a Zen make that's already backlogged. And, ugh, I don't even have the will to keep venting.

    Nope.

    Nope.

    There will be no second chances. We now know that at one point this seemed like a good idea to you. We've seen your true character. You're may change, but it's too late.
  • d4rkh0rs3d4rkh0rs3 Member Posts: 331 Arc User
    Hey everyone, buy VIP! You get daily dungeon keys that are useless in new content, scrolls that are worth pennies, and a lockbox key that is likely tied to reduced RNG drop rates to compensate for the number of new daily keys across all characters.
  • morgulknifemorgulknife Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    Slipping in a change like this is stupid, calling it a bug is terminal. Change back or adios.....
  • vida44vida44 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 667 Arc User
    Isn't today October 18th and not April 1st?
  • gomok72gomok72 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    Okay, again guys, why are you doing this? I honestly have not been playing this game (Been in BDO playing and spending money, because this game is going to HAMSTER). They worked on killing PvP (they succeeded). Now you guys want people to spend 250 Zen in order to do content in this game?

    I think this is a step in the wrong direction and you will drop a HAMSTER ton of players due to this. I give credit where credit is due, the Sharandar power point give for dailies was epic thinking in helping the game grow and people catch up, but this is a step backwards for this game and the community.

    Again, I think you all should find another option as this seems like a scheme the old neverwinter development team would come up with, Once and hopefully when you get this ironed out and we see it in action I will chime in on this again, as right now it looks like another cash grab dynamic with the already expensive not worthwhile stuff you have as a reward.

    On a note, I have done several of these dungeons thousands of times to get a tier 5 ring, artifact equipment and the likes only to come up empty handed (Along with other members of my guild) and you expect us to buy keys for 250 AD to run a dungeon 2000 times, in hopes of getting something other than a damn Dragon egg or a rank 8 silvery, demonic, etc? "I want what you guys are smoking".
    I may not be considered by most the BEST PVP Warlock on the server but, I am the most HATED amongst them.

    -Kymos
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    This pretty much killed my desire to play the game right now. I am so tired of all the HAMSTER we're forced to go through with such a regularity... So, what if the changed is reversed? Well, good. But what's the next negative change going to be? How many times do we have to express our frustration over stupid changes that serve no one but some random shareholder's best interests? I've never been opposed to seeing this game profitable. I've, however, never agreed on paying for it as the economic model is despicable. But this is going too far. Way too far.

    Cryptic, you make me sad when I think about your game. This is genius; you wouldn't do things differently if you were looking to push me out of it. Even if you revert the changes and promise you'll never do it, you have lost my trust.
  • rapo973rapo973 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 831 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    I understand you need money to feed the beast, but calling it a bug is dishonest and insulting.
    You don't even have enough fantasy to tell a credible excuse.
    Dear PWE/Cryptic management, please click on the link hereunder:
    http://datahamster.com/autoinsult/?style=0
    It's a self-service insult generator in 4 different flavours (Arabian, Mediterranean, Modern and Shakespearean): please select the more appropriate that you think fit for you. The link has "hamster" as well.

    Nothing else to add.


    Oltreverso guild leader
    Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
  • loexwellloexwell Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 40 Arc User
    d4rkh0rs3 said:

    Hey everyone, buy VIP! You get daily dungeon keys that are useless in new content, scrolls that are worth pennies, and a lockbox key that is likely tied to reduced RNG drop rates to compensate for the number of new daily keys across all characters.

    I for one will not extend my VIP anymore.
    I love my toons and I hate leaving them behind, but I will.
    Because I am lied to by some nitwit community manager, I don't take that in real life and certainly not in a videogame that is SUPPOSED to bring me pleasure, but instead is constantly working against me.


  • lazaroth666lazaroth666 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    This is a change that will force the players to take another path because the game is already too grindy and extremely alt-unfriendly. What's the point in removing more features than adding? I've been playing since the arrival of Mod 2, when the game was good and running dungeons was fun but every new module feels like a burden, everything is designed in the same way: farm, grind, campaign that takes 20 - 40 days and the incoming expansion looks like is going to be the most grindy ever in the history of Neverwinter. It is a pity that you are forcing every player to choose the exile.
    fkze9t.jpg
    ▄▀▄▀ Check out my blog for more information and cool videos: NWO-Battleground ▀▄▀▄
    Proud founder of the 'Primacy' alliance
  • feadan#2363 feadan Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    Looks like they are getting either greedy or desperate. Neither is a good sign for the longevity of this game.

    They are also going to make all auction house mail count towards your auction limit, i.e. every unclaimed purchase will count towards your limit of 40 auctions. No more keeping purchased items in your mail if you want to sell anything:
    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1223831/sea-of-moving-ice-preview-patch-notes-nw-70-20161011a-0
  • wickedduck22#9795 wickedduck22 Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    Thank you for fixing such a game breaking bug. I guess I was the majority and didn't know about this so I was using my keys like an idiot.
  • deterrant#6687 deterrant Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    Even if the so called chest rewards are made better:

    -how much more rewarding are they made?

    -Do we have to wait for months and months on end for you to finally implement them

    -Prolly just to see a 1% rise in the actual value of drops overall.

    This change will stop me for running dungeons, skirmishes ya name it, not worth it.

    Peridots, minor RP, green items are still dropping from EPIC and MASTER quality dungeon mobs, bosses and chests, FFS. And no DECENT sustainable BoE drops without RNG, in game.

    The game just got a 10/10 for Alienation and P2W Farming/Grinding marks of approval, way to go fellas.
  • hypergorila2hypergorila2 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited October 2016
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  • estastiesoestastieso Member Posts: 2 Arc User


  • fernandoeliseifernandoelisei Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 76 Arc User
    This game is already discouraging. I was talking the other day with some friends, the game is very discouraging, repetitive content, very repetitive, unbearable lag, miserable drops, PVP P2W and a number of things. Example is the eDemo, CN and FBI. If you have a eDEMO and Ndemo why the drops are about the same? FBI DG is a time-consuming if you do not have with the ideal group is the DG more "pica" of the game and at the end drop a ring +3 or +4? CN drop ring +1? Drop one transmute weapon of Orcus? sorry for the outburst but unfortunately're difficult to play NW and the guys "invent" this bug. If i do not remember correctly, one of the last patch, had to correct you get out of eLOL not even opening the chest ¬¬ '?????? Will understand. :'(:'( >:) >:) :s:s:(:(:/:/
  • rafaeldarafaelda Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    ok now thats just...

    So you not only removing the Decline button, you also said that was a BUG ? since when Bugs activation buttons ?? If you want so bad to make us buy keys lie in a way that doesn't offend us !!!!

    What i really appreciate is the warning, i only regret that warning didnt come BEFORE i bought Zen 3 days ago!

    what is the point to buy a mount in a game where changes a made and justified with BLUNT LIES ??
    if you wanna change it at least have the decency to assume your choices !!

    i really hope to see some kind of text saying that the part calling that option a bug was a bug...
    The changing was really a bad move but calling it a bug THAT WAS JUST COWARD AND DISAPPOINTING !!!

    Ps1 sorry for the caps, this was the first time i've used with bad intent, but you guys deserve ...
    Ps2 Sorry for the even worst english in this post but is realy hard to think in another language when you're pissed this much !!
  • kvetkvet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,700 Arc User
    Welcome to Neverwinter - the game that tries to tell us the Decline button that was intentionally built into the interface was really a bug all along when they realized it game EVERYONE the same advantage equally. I'd love to know who DIDN'T know you could decline chest loot that also had run those DDs more than a few times.

    *slow clap* 4 monkeys and a puppy could run this company better than it's being run now.
  • fernandoeliseifernandoelisei Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 76 Arc User

    This game is already discouraging. I was talking the other day with some friends, the game is very discouraging, really, repetitive content, very repetitive, unbearable lag, miserable drops, PVP P2W and a number of things. Example is the eDemo, CN and FBI. If you have a eDEMO and Ndemo because the drops are about the same? FBI DG is a time-consuming if you do not have with the ideal group is the DG more "bites" of the game and at the end drop a ring +3 or +4? CN drop ring +1? Drop one transmute weapon of Orcus? Sorry for the outburst but unfortunately're difficult to play NW and there to help the guys "invent" this bug. That's because if you do not remember correctly, one of the last patch, had to correct you get out of eLOL not even opening the chest ¬¬ '?????? Will understand.
  • boor18boor18 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    So if i want do normal demogorgon some times, i must wait x days for keys, and in 1 day do this. In other day what? Click do key, leave game? or buy key? It's funny. I don't have money for zen, so i can't do more dungeons? Maybe add all new items for zen? ` You have money, you are the best, you have all when, others must spend a lot of time to accomplish something. 70 lv character for zen? No problem, what will be next? Ad for zen?
  • kvetkvet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,700 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    Since the UI is so poor in Vanilla, it's possible that posts in the News section get missed by many folks, so I thought I'd point out this wonderful tidbit of news for anyone that didn't notice it:

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1223956/dungeon-key-changes/p1

    Enjoy!


    EDIT: Note: this weirdly non sequitur post was originally in the General section to help inform ppl of this change that may not look at the news area often (or ever).
  • fernandoeliseifernandoelisei Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 76 Arc User

    Everything will have double or triple gating, everything will be reviewed in terms of cash shop and where or how they can get more money.

    This is the end of this game.. that is clear, once a game is only about the cash shop and not about actual quality of game, there is zero reason to play it anymore.

    Run , run from this game, you cannot in good honesty stay after this announcement.

    ^This!

    With this key change they finally went p2w all the way. If you take FBI as an excemple, there is absolutely no way now, to get the particular loot you are looking for (e.g. Relic Armor) from a dungeon, UNLESS you spend actual money. You literally have to pay, to get a chance at the loot. Any other way, all you get is a wooden spoon.

    My advice follows Silverkelt: Take your money and run! Don't hand the money-grubbing HAMSTER of Cryptic any more of your hard earned cash.

    lirithiel said:

    Can anyone suggest me a new game to start downloading? Preferably one with no grind :p

    Paladins http://store.steampowered.com/app/444090/
    Fractured Space http://store.steampowered.com/app/310380/?l=german


    7 Days to Die (horror, crafting, zombies)
    Path os Exile (like Diablo)
    Paladins (the poor's overwatch)
    Borderlands (old but gold)
    TERA (uhh its TERA)
  • karakla1karakla1 Member Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    Seriously that wasn't a bug. It was a feature. A very nice feature. To say it was a bug is an open lie! Yes i call you out for being a liar because that would mean you knew from a "bug" over YEARS and was like: Meh.

    Sorry but this is the dumbest thing in the newer history. If you want to monetize it or make more money out of the chest I have an idea for you: PUT LOOT IN THE EXTRA DUNGEON CHESTS WHICH IS WORTH THE LOOT TO TAKE IT OUT!

    In all seriousness. The current loot is utter HAMSTER unless you get a lucky 0,5% drop (like and artifact). Put loot in that is worth spending the key on it.

    plat.png
    Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
  • saeri#0665 saeri Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    ABOUT THAT BUG CLAIM. I don't believe this was ever a "bug". Almost all user interface windows allow a "Cancel/Exit" option. We all know the button because we use it to make decisions in-game. If the true concern was that select players were not aware of this functionality, then a visual "Press B to cancel/exit" should be displayed.

    ABOUT BETTER DESIGN REWARDS. The claim that "Neverwinter design team will be better able to design rewards for chests going forward now that the bug has been fixed" is confusing.

    - If it was a bug that ARC was AWARE of all this time, is it plausible to conclude that drop rates for good loot has been severely decreased to make up for this "bug" until it can be fixed? In other words, the drop rates were nerfed to compensate/offset the issue. If so, it most affects players that were unaware of being able to peek into the chest...an issue that ARC had created in the first place by not addressing the "bug". And now it is being solved at the expense of a feature many believed to be part of the game mechanics.

    - If this was a bug that ARC were NOT AWARE of, then...it has revealed to players how paltry the chances truly are to get sought-after loot.
  • panteleeleepanteleelee Member Posts: 289 Arc User
    WTF NW fail? this is not a bug...lol rly lol...this is a good option to see what the chest have and give us a option to take or decline the loot...why destroy the game day by day?

    Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
    May the Torm of Understanding guide us!
  • calicobillcalicobill Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 36 Arc User
    I started playing this game over two years ago and let me tell you my story. This is a story of a guy who likes playing mmo's and doesn't mind the grind if I can get something for his trouble. I ran the dungeons to get gear and drops to sell or salvage. I ran content to get gear, finish a campaign for boons or for drops to sell or salvage. I have rank 12 VIP because the options I get with it wastes less of my time and allows me to run more content. I consider it a subscription now.

    So when the gear of an area is below what I have and I can't transfer it to another toon, I don't run that again.
    So when the dungeon has bad drops for my time spent, I don't run that again.

    I'm not the kind of player that has to have the BiS for every toon I have (9, one of each class) but will get the best I can to run content. So once I get a toon to lvl 70, I try to finish the boons for each area for each toon. If you put too many obstacles in my way to gain or get something I don't think is worth the time I don't do it. I have never or will I ever use or get armor/equipment that I have to grind to do maintenance on. So no BI or frost gear for me. DF gear works fine. Artifact weapons I use are elemental until I farm twisted, then no more farming for me for that toon.

    So having said that, this is what I normally do on a daily basis in this game other than what I have stated. If a toon needs dailies for campaigns I'll do that. I will run demon invasion in DR, IWD, and ToD for rings to salvage and freezes to make keys for e/demo and CN runs. Other than that I jump on whatever toon a guild run needs (Heal, tank, DPS) to help them out. So the only dungeon I run is CN and I run TIA. All of your other content I ignore. Most of my toons have over 100 epic keys sitting in the bank doing nothing. I build up AD over time to buy CWards to do the final upgrade of my artifacts and weapons.

    I have never run FBI, it is not worth it with the drops you get. The fishing I won't be doing unless it provides something for my toons as I can do all the content with my current toons. As soon as you add things that I deem a waste of time or take away things I like to do I will leave. So you have already taken all the money I'm willing to give you until you improve the game.

    When you hurt the community as a whole, which you have done with the last three mods and less people play the game, that is when I will leave the game for good, but you stopped earning my extra money a long time ago.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    Considering I dont EVER remember a time outside of mods 0-2 that dungeons gave any sort of viable HAMSTER at all.. I have no idea what they are smoking. Everything since then was massive RNG down to .01-1% total . the keys just saved us from spending on worthless blue garbage all the time (especially since edemo forward)

    WHAT a massive mother loving hamster this game has turned into.

    Even if they dont do this.. the game is way off base on level of grind, next mod takes the cake, with the massive RNG factor into getting the weapons (that doesnt even include the grind)

    We all know why they are doing this, they are doing it to capture more money for next mod.

    Even if they dont do this.. You will experience so much pain trying to get those weapons it wont be funny, there maybe will be 100 people with those weapons after the mod is done.

    There is no reason anymore to play this game, we cant play together to achieve goals any longer, its just a few really lucky rng winners now.

    I play to play with other people, this is the sole reason I play mmos, I dont mind some solo grind, as long as its not over the top like mod 10 has been.

    But when they remove reasons to actually play together with the addition of over top solo HAMSTER fest they introduced, the game has lost its way.

    No reason at all to log in, no reason to play anymore, we should all give it up.
  • splodeykittehsplodeykitteh Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    Just... What. You've had money from me. I've been happy to spend it, because I was enjoying playing the game. Treating me like an idiot is a good way to make me stop giving you my money.

  • rafaeldarafaelda Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 662 Arc User

    Considering I dont EVER remember a time outside of mods 0-2 that dungeons gave any sort of viable HAMSTER at all.. I have no idea what they are smoking. Everything since then was massive RNG down to .01-1% total . the keys just saved us from spending on worthless blue garbage all the time (especially since edemo forward)

    WHAT a massive mother loving hamster this game has turned into.

    Even if they dont do this.. the game is way off base on level of grind, next mod takes the cake, with the massive RNG factor into getting the weapons (that doesnt even include the grind)

    We all know why they are doing this, they are doing it to capture more money for next mod.

    Even if they dont do this.. You will experience so much pain trying to get those weapons it wont be funny, there maybe will be 100 people with those weapons after the mod is done.

    There is no reason anymore to play this game, we cant play together to achieve goals any longer, its just a few really lucky rng winners now.

    I play to play with other people, this is the sole reason I play mmos, I dont mind some solo grind, as long as its not over the top like mod 10 has been.

    But when they remove reasons to actually play together with the addition of over top solo HAMSTER fest they introduced, the game has lost its way.

    No reason at all to log in, no reason to play anymore, we should all give it up.

    I will Log a few more days just to see if this stuff is true and se the complains online, really is just to stupid to be real, also i have to say bye to my guild mates...
This discussion has been closed.