What I don't understand is if you can identify that botting is causing undue stress on the Gateway servers, and your network in general... you must be able to identify the accounts actually doing the botting.
Why must they be able to identify the bots? There's a huge leap between knowing botting is occurring putting stress on the servers, and being able to differentiate between accounts doing said botting, and accounts that are perfectly innocent players.
Why don't you all set up queue system for professions so people can log in once a day and set up all tasks for 24-48 hours in game. Give some power back to your players.
While that's a nice QOL improvement, how exactly does that solve the problem at hand? You're making the (extremely unlikely) assumption that it's "legit" botting players impacting the servers, and not gold sellers running server farms of bots.
On the upside no need to get anymore character slots the longer they wait the less likely people are to buy more
0
morrowind69Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 26Arc User
edited September 2016
I think the AD sellers moving there AD safely without any problem and if cryptic what to ban the bots they need to make it fast and secret not telling them we will start a war against bots 2 weeks from now ?!!
Renewing my plea for you to put an official (sticky'd if necessary) post about the status of the Gateway. You closed the other thread but unless you put out a clear message all that will amount to is causing the conspiracy theorists to move into this thread.
It would mean a lot for the community, and I really think it wouldn't be much effort on your part Even if you just repeated what you already wrote, just in a central and clear location.
0
jaysun1977Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 177Arc User
We took it down because automated activity was putting undue pressure on our servers and it was clear that it was risky to leave Gateway up any longer as it was causing performance issues to more than just the Gateway servers. We have been monitoring the amount of RP generated from Leadership and have not identified it as causing enough distortion to the RP economy to make any changes at this time.
We have talked about what to do about Gateway internally and looked into the issue, we plan to have a decision on how to tackle this issue next week.
I want to have more details for everyone by the end of next week on what our plans are. As much as I like Gateway too, we can't let it threaten taking down the rest of the game servers let alone itself.
What he said that I said.
I for one would still like to know what changed so suddenly to increase the load to such levels. Any information on that? If not then the update is pretty much useless as far information is concerned.
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,346Arc User
No thanks. It's already hard enough trying to find an IP that isn't banned via VPN. Since upgrading to Windows 10 using a VPN is the ONLY way I can play NW since for whatever reason it hangs up during the zone loading otherwise. I had it working without VPN but everytime I reboot Windows seems to mess up my network drivers.
And seriously you guys are buying the whole "botters" thing once again? Bunch of suckers... How many times are you going to let them pull that wool over your eyes? The Gateway has been there for over THREE YEARS! And it's now a issue? After the AD was removed from Leadership (also due to botters)? Suuuuure. Every time Cryptic finds something they want to remove from the game to get people to spend more real $$ they blame it on the evil botters.
Would be nice if their wasn't so much grinding involved with the professions. Just have things unlock as character levels up and progress through the campaign feature.
That's my solution.
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." "Great men are almost always bad men." “If God is all-powerful He cannot be good, if God is good He cannot be all-powerful!”
0
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
My personal suggestion is that they find a way to slow down bot's account creation. How though? I have no clue. Captcha's don't work against determined botters. I don't really know of anything that effectively works.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
0
jaysun1977Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 177Arc User
My personal suggestion is that they find a way to slow down bot's account creation. How though? I have no clue. Captcha's don't work against determined botters. I don't really know of anything that effectively works.
Make the game a freemium model, with an initial b2p cost (needs to be at least 20 to 50 bucks). That way account creation can become too expensive for botters, especially in such a small game.
Of course you'd also lose pretty much most of your players and would have to say goddbye to the hope for any new players.
And seriously you guys are buying the whole "botters" thing once again? Bunch of suckers... How many times are you going to let them pull that wool over your eyes? The Gateway has been there for over THREE YEARS! And it's now a issue? After the AD was removed from Leadership (also due to botters)? Suuuuure. Every time Cryptic finds something they want to remove from the game to get people to spend more real $$ they blame it on the evil botters.
I love the fan base here. I've had high hopes for the game from the start. The idea of a D&D game based on the 4th edition rules was a wonderful idea for Neverwinter Nights. It was a beautiful idea of making a multiplayer version with an interlaced handheld game and the foundry neverwinter was going to be revolutionary. Unfortunately Perfect World saved Cryptic from going under. Neverwinter was sold to pasture as a money making D&D cash cow. The game progressively gets worse every other mod. The moment the designers come up with a wonderful new storyline, rules option or cosmetic assesory. Perfect World steps in and shuts down the foundry, plan to bypass the pay to play feature or shakes down the players pocket for another $50.
So really Perfect World saved the game at the expense of making a terrible tourist trap of a mmo.
FYI I was actually planning to return to the game and buy $200 bucks of zen right before the gateway crash. I thought the foundry was just a wash but it is evident that Perfect World wants the game to be a WoW rip off cash cow and not the D&D experience people could enjoy.
Unfortunately it looks like Perfect World put pressure on WOTC to make Sword Coast Legends almost defunct when it was the closest possible option for D&D fans to have a multiplayer videogame experience outside of the money grabbing entertainment industry. Oh well...just keep staring at the forums and hope they turn it back on...also they don't care about your ideas anymore than they care about providing a service.
Please, if they know it is rampant botting..then they know the accounts doing it. Perma-Ban them and let us that are not exploiting or botting use the game you created. Why keep punishing legitimate players? It really makes no sense...
What are they afraid of by Perma Banning these botters/exploiters? Just do a ban and it will start spreading the word that your serious about it...unless of course you are just trying to kill the PC version!
As folk have covered this doesn't work and only impacts legit players and foolish casual botters due to
1: IP spoofing via anonymizers and VPNs 2: MAC re-addressing if you somehow have managed to pull an end-user MAC address 3: VM at either machine or routing server level set to flip to a new end-user IP or MAC at random intervals. 4: Automated account/forced rote manual creation ( bots and farmers don't care about min/maxed stats or race/class matchups )
We'll not even humour the idea of BIOS IDs, anyone allowing a program apart from an OS or their employer ( and even then I'd want a damn good reason why they aren't using something like Citrix or a product from someone like Verisec or TDSi instead, or even a simple smartcard lock on the machine able to RA in ) to access such a thing deserves everything they ever suffer; for the rest of us there's various ways to flash out BIOS to different settings and hardware IDs.
However thinking about that one thing that would work against the above slightly for probably not much server load would be to make it MANDATORY for gateway to be used by ARC Defender protected accounts. The simple requirement for it to use the one-time code on IP/MAC shift would be a hefty step towards cutting into the time margin that allows profitability, even more so if you embed the code as an image rather than a text string.
as for the cure...
I state again as many others have:
1) make the professions useful beyond the core 3 ( four if you count black ice ), as it is even new players are never going to raise things like Platesmithing etc 2) remove the lower timed jobs or at least create bulk production versions of them to fit better with players timescales, as my previous example said things like Feed the Needy either rip it out past the early levels or make a 1 Hour version for 6 times the cost and six times the return; it'll make everyone happier when they can queue a set of jobs for say 4 hours rather than have to bunnyhop every 10 mins to requeue 3) for the love of the baby RNGesus put some form of automation into the game, one of the things driving the casual players to consider botting is just how mind numbing raising some profs are ( I've got several toons at that lovely 15 to 16 leadership stage so know exactly what I mean ) whether due to low rates and long xp bars or simply just due to weird and wonderful mats and short AND mismatched production timers ( level 14 alch exp... 2 x 45 min pots, 1 x 35 ... why not all 3 at same speed at least ? ); you add the capacity for someone to either queue a run of specific items manually or even better set a slot to produce "Level 14 Alchemy Experimentation" therefore making the mats as needed till it has the pots and then runs the job till completed and you'd have both the hack and slash players and the tycoon style players both staying and arriving in droves... we'll not mention THAT game but apart from some hiccups they've handled the professions quite well by making it at least accessible to both casual and serious crafters equally including time gated mats ( simply handled here already by long prof times for rarer/unusual mats ) and vendor shortcuts with high costs ( again handled here by the simple fact that if you don't want to farm for say a Dragon Egg you have to shell out to another player for it ).
As for the ZAX and AH issues I don't use them enough to worry but can appreciate others do, personally I'd be happy with something like the following ( and feel free to shoot me down on this guys as I'm not a heavy user of them so can appreciate I might not know why it would be unworkable ):
1& 2:
ZAX - lock access on gateway till ONE character on the account is level 50 ( or another level that is suitable ) that requires a proper investment of time, something Botters and RMT won't suffer if they can find a more optimal way. AH - Same.
Shortcut for legit players apart from the ONE toon at {n} level? Charge some Zen, again something RMT/Bot farms will be loathe to do, and after 24 hours release the lock ( again to stall doublebacked cards etc )
@panderus , cheers for the update sir; some of us appreciate it and also understand that it's a fine line between what you know is wrong and what you can actually say outside the company. If it's indeed gonna be a solid fix, maybe this is the time to look at the options of adding some of the QoL issues mentioned here and elsewhere and/or doing a full clone of the gateway while it's not under load and using that to see if any or all of the QoL/streamlining suggestions are viable. The Gateway was already a draw for players, now it could be even more of a draw while at the same time making the serious and casual botting not as viable and attractive.
and now... time for the morning Invoke and profs carousel
I don't generally post on forums due to how they are heavily monitored and also quite often its nothing more than arguments however with all the changes to the game over the last year due to
1: Botters (not sure how people can bot a website but ok...) 2: Sellers 3: PVE affecting PVP and Vice Versa
all the illegal nonsense that has really done is that you are heavily impacting the legit players
- AD via Leadership = Gone - AD Invoking Changes = Gone - Changes to Events with Rough Ad = Minimalised or reduced - Changes to Salvaging = Reduced
In the end the game is more geared towards those who are willing to smash you with R.L.M (All mythic's and rank 12 in EVERY Slot) or the Sellers who as of your "latest" attempt to stop them has FAILED beyond epic-ally, so far i have counted in the 8 hours yesterday i was on and 4 hours today over 100
be nice if you could actually fix the game issues and make it more enjoyable to the casual/semi raider etc than be determined to Drain money and make it even more difficult to play fairly, I get you are a company but this game is Far from its original glory back in the day when it first launched....
1: Fix companion behaviour so they stick to there designated role or Range or melee (i.e wh ydoes a 50@ range class go into 5') 2: Fix skills that are still not working over months and months 3: Separate PVE and PVP so they don't affect each other so "heavily
4: I would also love to see some process to lodge a complaint against GM's the support I have had over my last 4 tickets is nothing short of "diabolical"
on a positive Side note:
I would personally like to say Thanks for the latest event Tymora's gift it was a nice welcome change.
- AD via Leadership = Gone - AD Invoking Changes = Gone - Changes to Events with Rough Ad = Minimalised or reduced - Changes to Salvaging = Reduced
You missed the memo, whilst botting was part of the reason they went after these, it wasn't the only one. the other one stated by cryptic is they don;t want you to get AD without having to go out and play the game (and the harder the content the more you should get), there's also an unstated but evident in their changes choice point that they only want you earing AD from group content. the biggest issue now IMO is the sheer mismatch between T1 and T2 content in drops terms. T2 salvage rewards more, but it's also easier to acquire beyond a certain gear level by a wide margin.
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
also missed the memo on altered, not gone it seems.
I have seen all the news the boost is fine in perspective (Farming TOTG/POM/HE for rings etc) but easily used up and also the changes to blue/purple gear salvaging etc but unlike most people I am happy with my 2 Char's which is more than enough for me,
My personal suggestion is that they find a way to slow down bot's account creation. How though? I have no clue. Captcha's don't work against determined botters. I don't really know of anything that effectively works.
I suggest trying to tie account creation to some sort of requirement that would hinder botters just enough to slow them down. What kind of requirement though I don't exactly know.
Edit:
Maybe some sort of invite only model? I mean.. Invitations are free, but they would give you more control.
> @clonkyo1 said: > on the other hand, i find funny how some players still think that the "supply and demand" mantra is still an argument... Poor liberalism chained with capitalism economy basics...
> @urabask said: > #3 is a load of nonsense and you know it. Botters don't buy character slots because it's an extra cost that reduces their net AD when the account is banned.
Which is only true for people that actually play the game. Goldsellers don't need to because they just use a bajillion different accounts. Even with the sale 50 character slots is 2.5 million AD that they'll lose when the account inevitably gets banned.
Post edited by kreatyve on
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,346Arc User
> #3 is a load of nonsense and you know it. Botters don't buy character slots because it's an extra cost that reduces their net AD when the account is banned.
1 account = 2 dungeons/character * 50 character = 500K AD at day.
You are very fool.
1 account = 2 dungeons/character * 50 character = 500K AD at day. (but you need to pay to get slot)
50000 accounts = X * 2 characters = a lot more than 500K AD per day AND you don't need to pay to get slot and you don't need to play (since these are bots).
Who is the fool?
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
My personal suggestion is that they find a way to slow down bot's account creation. How though? I have no clue. Captcha's don't work against determined botters. I don't really know of anything that effectively works.
Captcha only works for the gold sellers bots when they switch accounts. But for actual Bot farmers the devs would need to restrict everything and get players to play and progress in the game to unlock content. Make it more costly to achieve things freely. Like for the profession once you reach level 10 the character no longer need to progress. "It" can just stay there and log in daily.
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." "Great men are almost always bad men." “If God is all-powerful He cannot be good, if God is good He cannot be all-powerful!”
> @urabask said: > Which is only true for people that actually play the game. Goldsellers don't need to because they just use a bajillion different accounts. Even with the sale 50 character slots is 2.5 million AD that they'll lose when the account inevitably gets banned.
It if the account is banned. And as you said, the goldsellers don't need more chars. You think the same account that sells diamonds is the same account you get them? You think the same account that sells diamonds is the same account get Refine Points?
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,346Arc User
edited September 2016
Removed moderator edited quote.
Are you saying the gold sellers actually play the game themselves instead of running a bot in the game? Are you assuming you would only get ban by AH activities? You were talking about dungeons and that was your reason why the gold seller are willing to spend AD/Zen to have 50 slots.
If you are only talking about RP, why would you do the following:
1 account = 50 characters earns RP (need to pay to get extra slot and need to worry about getting ban)
instead of:
50000 accounts = 100000 characters to earn RP (no need to pay anything and have no worry about getting ban)?
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Comments
Renewing my plea for you to put an official (sticky'd if necessary) post about the status of the Gateway. You closed the other thread but unless you put out a clear message all that will amount to is causing the conspiracy theorists to move into this thread.
It would mean a lot for the community, and I really think it wouldn't be much effort on your part
Whatever happened to MUDs? Plain text based roleplaying?
And seriously you guys are buying the whole "botters" thing once again? Bunch of suckers... How many times are you going to let them pull that wool over your eyes? The Gateway has been there for over THREE YEARS! And it's now a issue? After the AD was removed from Leadership (also due to botters)? Suuuuure. Every time Cryptic finds something they want to remove from the game to get people to spend more real $$ they blame it on the evil botters.
Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
Youtube channel (PvE/PvP)
Just have things unlock as character levels up and progress through the campaign
feature.
That's my solution.
"Great men are almost always bad men."
“If God is all-powerful He cannot be good, if God is good He cannot be all-powerful!”
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Of course you'd also lose pretty much most of your players and would have to say goddbye to the hope for any new players.
Unfortunately Perfect World saved Cryptic from going under. Neverwinter was sold to pasture as a money making D&D cash cow. The game progressively gets worse every other mod. The moment the designers come up with a wonderful new storyline, rules option or cosmetic assesory. Perfect World steps in and shuts down the foundry, plan to bypass the pay to play feature or shakes down the players pocket for another $50.
So really Perfect World saved the game at the expense of making a terrible tourist trap of a mmo.
FYI I was actually planning to return to the game and buy $200 bucks of zen right before the gateway crash. I thought the foundry was just a wash but it is evident that Perfect World wants the game to be a WoW rip off cash cow and not the D&D experience people could enjoy.
Unfortunately it looks like Perfect World put pressure on WOTC to make Sword Coast Legends almost defunct when it was the closest possible option for D&D fans to have a multiplayer videogame experience outside of the money grabbing entertainment industry. Oh well...just keep staring at the forums and hope they turn it back on...also they don't care about your ideas anymore than they care about providing a service.
1: IP spoofing via anonymizers and VPNs
2: MAC re-addressing if you somehow have managed to pull an end-user MAC address
3: VM at either machine or routing server level set to flip to a new end-user IP or MAC at random intervals.
4: Automated account/forced rote manual creation ( bots and farmers don't care about min/maxed stats or race/class matchups )
We'll not even humour the idea of BIOS IDs, anyone allowing a program apart from an OS or their employer ( and even then I'd want a damn good reason why they aren't using something like Citrix or a product from someone like Verisec or TDSi instead, or even a simple smartcard lock on the machine able to RA in ) to access such a thing deserves everything they ever suffer; for the rest of us there's various ways to flash out BIOS to different settings and hardware IDs.
However thinking about that one thing that would work against the above slightly for probably not much server load would be to make it MANDATORY for gateway to be used by ARC Defender protected accounts. The simple requirement for it to use the one-time code on IP/MAC shift would be a hefty step towards cutting into the time margin that allows profitability, even more so if you embed the code as an image rather than a text string.
as for the cure...
I state again as many others have:
1) make the professions useful beyond the core 3 ( four if you count black ice ), as it is even new players are never going to raise things like Platesmithing etc
2) remove the lower timed jobs or at least create bulk production versions of them to fit better with players timescales, as my previous example said things like Feed the Needy either rip it out past the early levels or make a 1 Hour version for 6 times the cost and six times the return; it'll make everyone happier when they can queue a set of jobs for say 4 hours rather than have to bunnyhop every 10 mins to requeue
3) for the love of the baby RNGesus put some form of automation into the game, one of the things driving the casual players to consider botting is just how mind numbing raising some profs are ( I've got several toons at that lovely 15 to 16 leadership stage so know exactly what I mean ) whether due to low rates and long xp bars or simply just due to weird and wonderful mats and short AND mismatched production timers ( level 14 alch exp... 2 x 45 min pots, 1 x 35 ... why not all 3 at same speed at least ? ); you add the capacity for someone to either queue a run of specific items manually or even better set a slot to produce "Level 14 Alchemy Experimentation" therefore making the mats as needed till it has the pots and then runs the job till completed and you'd have both the hack and slash players and the tycoon style players both staying and arriving in droves... we'll not mention THAT game but apart from some hiccups they've handled the professions quite well by making it at least accessible to both casual and serious crafters equally including time gated mats ( simply handled here already by long prof times for rarer/unusual mats ) and vendor shortcuts with high costs ( again handled here by the simple fact that if you don't want to farm for say a Dragon Egg you have to shell out to another player for it ).
As for the ZAX and AH issues I don't use them enough to worry but can appreciate others do, personally I'd be happy with something like the following ( and feel free to shoot me down on this guys as I'm not a heavy user of them so can appreciate I might not know why it would be unworkable ):
1& 2:
ZAX - lock access on gateway till ONE character on the account is level 50 ( or another level that is suitable ) that requires a proper investment of time, something Botters and RMT won't suffer if they can find a more optimal way.
AH - Same.
Shortcut for legit players apart from the ONE toon at {n} level? Charge some Zen, again something RMT/Bot farms will be loathe to do, and after 24 hours release the lock ( again to stall doublebacked cards etc )
@panderus , cheers for the update sir; some of us appreciate it and also understand that it's a fine line between what you know is wrong and what you can actually say outside the company. If it's indeed gonna be a solid fix, maybe this is the time to look at the options of adding some of the QoL issues mentioned here and elsewhere and/or doing a full clone of the gateway while it's not under load and using that to see if any or all of the QoL/streamlining suggestions are viable. The Gateway was already a draw for players, now it could be even more of a draw while at the same time making the serious and casual botting not as viable and attractive.
and now... time for the morning Invoke and profs carousel
1: Botters (not sure how people can bot a website but ok...)
2: Sellers
3: PVE affecting PVP and Vice Versa
all the illegal nonsense that has really done is that you are heavily impacting the legit players
- AD via Leadership = Gone
- AD Invoking Changes = Gone
- Changes to Events with Rough Ad = Minimalised or reduced
- Changes to Salvaging = Reduced
In the end the game is more geared towards those who are willing to smash you with R.L.M (All mythic's and rank 12 in EVERY Slot) or the Sellers who as of your "latest" attempt to stop them has FAILED beyond epic-ally, so far i have counted in the 8 hours yesterday i was on and 4 hours today over 100
be nice if you could actually fix the game issues and make it more enjoyable to the casual/semi raider etc than be determined to Drain money and make it even more difficult to play fairly, I get you are a company but this game is Far from its original glory back in the day when it first launched....
1: Fix companion behaviour so they stick to there designated role or Range or melee (i.e wh ydoes a 50@ range class go into 5')
2: Fix skills that are still not working over months and months
3: Separate PVE and PVP so they don't affect each other so "heavily
4: I would also love to see some process to lodge a complaint against GM's the support I have had over my last 4 tickets is nothing short of "diabolical"
on a positive Side note:
I would personally like to say Thanks for the latest event Tymora's gift it was a nice welcome change.
- AD Invoking Changes = Gone
- Changes to Events with Rough Ad = Minimalised or reduced
- Changes to Salvaging = Reduced
You missed the memo, whilst botting was part of the reason they went after these, it wasn't the only one. the other one stated by cryptic is they don;t want you to get AD without having to go out and play the game (and the harder the content the more you should get), there's also an unstated but evident in their changes choice point that they only want you earing AD from group content. the biggest issue now IMO is the sheer mismatch between T1 and T2 content in drops terms. T2 salvage rewards more, but it's also easier to acquire beyond a certain gear level by a wide margin.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
Edit:
Maybe some sort of invite only model? I mean.. Invitations are free, but they would give you more control.
> on the other hand, i find funny how some players still think that the "supply and demand" mantra is still an argument... Poor liberalism chained with capitalism economy basics...
+10000
> #3 is a load of nonsense and you know it. Botters don't buy character slots because it's an extra cost that reduces their net AD when the account is banned.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Basics Maths:
1 account = 2 dungeons/character * 50 character = 500K AD at day.
<font color="orange">Let's not flame people. Trying to only very lightly moderate this thread.</font>
Which is only true for people that actually play the game. Goldsellers don't need to because they just use a bajillion different accounts. Even with the sale 50 character slots is 2.5 million AD that they'll lose when the account inevitably gets banned.
50000 accounts = X * 2 characters = a lot more than 500K AD per day AND you don't need to pay to get slot and you don't need to play (since these are bots).
Who is the fool?
But for actual Bot farmers the devs would need to restrict everything
and get players to play and progress in the game to unlock content.
Make it more costly to achieve things freely.
Like for the profession once you reach level 10 the character no longer
need to progress. "It" can just stay there and log in daily.
"Great men are almost always bad men."
“If God is all-powerful He cannot be good, if God is good He cannot be all-powerful!”
> Which is only true for people that actually play the game. Goldsellers don't need to because they just use a bajillion different accounts. Even with the sale 50 character slots is 2.5 million AD that they'll lose when the account inevitably gets banned.
It if the account is banned.
And as you said, the goldsellers don't need more chars. You think the same account that sells diamonds is the same account you get them? You think the same account that sells diamonds is the same account get Refine Points?
<font color="orange">Moderator removed slight flame.</font>
Are you saying the gold sellers actually play the game themselves instead of running a bot in the game?
Are you assuming you would only get ban by AH activities?
You were talking about dungeons and that was your reason why the gold seller are willing to spend AD/Zen to have 50 slots.
If you are only talking about RP, why would you do the following:
1 account = 50 characters earns RP (need to pay to get extra slot and need to worry about getting ban)
instead of:
50000 accounts = 100000 characters to earn RP (no need to pay anything and have no worry about getting ban)?