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Official Feedback Thread: Scourge Warlock changes

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  • fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    d4rkh0rs3 said:

    @fernuu I am at work and cant watch videos :(



    I'm going to watch them when I get home as I'd like to see the new gameplay.



    Is there anything you can say about the SW changes from the eGWD runs?

    We lack on AoE due to TT bug and no MF (it's mostly noticeable at last fight when adds are coming). Single target fights are still great, SS and KF are doing even better than before (and we're talking about huge ITF nerf behind the scenes) so SW is on a good way.

    I will do more test runs after new preview patch will be on so it will be more accurate.
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

    Mod 10:
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.

    Mod 9:
    [Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    fernuu said:

    Two runs from yesterday, eGWD (why there is no CN on preview? :()

    So from videos shows that Soul Scorch remain hardest hitting encounter from warlock arsenal.

    BoVa will be used as it we did before mod 6.
    Curse bite showed that in order to properly utilize it u need have luck. Thats mean apply lesser curses(possible with Accursed sou
    fernuu said:

    d4rkh0rs3 said:

    @fernuu I am at work and cant watch videos :(



    I'm going to watch them when I get home as I'd like to see the new gameplay.



    Is there anything you can say about the SW changes from the eGWD runs?

    We lack on AoE due to TT bug and no MF (it's mostly noticeable at last fight when adds are coming). Single target fights are still great, SS and KF are doing even better than before (and we're talking about huge ITF nerf behind the scenes) so SW is on a good way.

    I will do more test runs after new preview patch will be on so it will be more accurate.
    Actually I would like to ask u to do testings for hellbringer path. After all it would be more clear what HB lack if u used same gear set as u now use with SB.
    Even If I put table with numbers I would not be able compare with your SB due gear differences and gameplay too.
    And most important reason why I ask. Is that better test by yourself rather than read 100 times of someones claims..
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    @bloodyspamer - I will do tests for both Hellbringer and Soulbinder once new patch will be out. I will focus on new improvements but will test few more rotations.

    Soul Scorch: yeah, indeed best encouter. Killing Flames can do more damage but we can't spam it :)
    BoVA: great spark generation (even better combined with Essence Defiler's casting speed increase) and now it grants a lot of deflection (25%)
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

    Mod 10:
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.

    Mod 9:
    [Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    fernuu said:

    @bloodyspamer - I will do tests for both Hellbringer and Soulbinder once new patch will be out. I will focus on new improvements but will test few more rotations.

    Soul Scorch: yeah, indeed best encouter. Killing Flames can do more damage but we can't spam it :)
    BoVA: great spark generation (even better combined with Essence Defiler's casting speed increase) and now it grants a lot of deflection (25%)

    Thanks.
    If possible and if u are not busy do test run with current changes.. It could be big value when compare difference with current and ones which will come with next patch. But if u are busy its not big deal :)

    Well about couple minutes had eToS in normal server and as always same idea keep getting in my head.
    We have wraith of shadow. DoT with chance to go immobility debuff.
    So I though well why devs simply didn't use "Syndrith High Priestess of Lolth" spider web mechanic, which he drops on ground.
    So suggestion would be like:
    If warlock cast Wraith of Shadow on target who are not affected by curse/lesser curse/TC, have same effect as current Wraith of shadow do.
    But if Warlock cast this encounter who is affected by curse/lesser curse/TC. Instantly make spider web area as Priestess of Lolth does. And plus we could add similar effect as boss does(Minor Damage outcome reduction + slowing down in that area. With ability to change effect to immobility .(that part with immorbility still questionable)
    So this power become strong aoe CC/debuff for many monsters and good for single target too.

    What do u think about this my old idea.
    Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    amenar said:

    Hey guys -

    Another round of changes incoming with another preview patch... soon. Here's the list:

    • Scourge Warlock: Blades of Vanquished Armies: No longer toggles off when you are Stunned or Dazed.

    • Scourge Warlock: Pillar of Power: This power has had a slight rework. Now always casts under your feet, instead of needing to be placed. Recharge time now starts as soon as you cast it instead of when the effect ends, and has been reduced to 10s, down from 15s. You may only have 1 Pillar of Power active at a time, so recasting it while it is still active will move it to your current location. The effects of the Pillar have changed, as well. In addition to increasing your damage, it now also grants you damage resistance while you stand within it. The Pillar no longer builds up and explodes when an enemy enters it. Instead, it lowers the enemies damage and damage resistance, and deals damage to them.

    • Scourge Warlock: Prince of Hell: No longer increases your Armor Penetration stat by 10%. Instead, directly increases your Resistance Ignored and Life Steal Chance by 5%, plus 1% per rank.

    • Scourge Warlock: Shadow Slip: Increased speed by 15%.

    • Scourge Warlock: Shadow Slip: Now provides damage immunity for 1 second after activation, and loses 20% damage resistance per second while it is active, down to a minimum of 40% (this timer persist through rapid reapplications).

    • Scourge Warlock: Tyrannical Curse: Fixed an issue that caused the "damage link" portion of the power to not work in many cases.
    Again, these changes are not on preview yet but should hopefully be there with our next build pushed to preview.

    As for some other topics:

    Temptation still needs love, that we won't really be able to give it with this review. We have plans for it that require bigger changes than we can make right now. I don't want to talk about them beyond that, as plans can change, and I don't even have a concrete timeline for when they will come. I realize that won't be everyone's favorite answer, but hopefully it is better than none.

    We'd like to get Hellbringer into a much better place with this module. It's one of the least use Paragon Paths in the game, and hopefully some of the most recent changes can help fix that.

    I read through your concerns and suggestions about Shadow Slip - they're interesting, though we've been discussing how difficult it is for classes without any damage immunity from there Shift powers to survive in our splat heavy end-game, so we still want to see how this plays. That doesn't mean it will make it live - and even if it does, if it ends up causing problems we can't foresee, we will reevaluate.

    Also want to just post a reminder of our intent - our intent with these changes is not to nerf the Scourge Warlock. While they have a few outstanding powers, overall, they are underperforming, and we want to bring up the class as a whole while making the "crutch" powers like Tyrannical Threat not an absolute must-have for the class to function.
    you obvioulsy read some of the warlock threads, thx a lot.
    1. nice improvement to blades esp for PVP it will have give that encounter a chance
    2. Pillar of power may work that way
    3. speed up 15% from shadow slip, essential for PVP as far as you are not BIS, good decision
    4. immunity frame 1 second and down at 40% in 4 seconds, as far as I understood? I think a dodge like ability is needed in PVP for the warlock, though finetuning maybe needed.

    All in all I can see your efforts in making the class more flexible and I also agree about those core feats and powers wich overperformed like TT , puppet and IS.
    In case you nerf those core abilities you have to lift encounter pretty much to cover the dps loss.

    In PVE my damantion puppet deals +50% followed by TT with about 30% overall damage more or less, on singel target the puppet nearly solos the boss in a max buff party, somehow redicules watching the boss being 4-hittet from 60% health somtimes.
    Being Fury TT is the one that deals +50% overaldamage.
    Immolation spirits especially as a damnationlock deal a lot of damage on single target, at maxed sparks they out-dps the caster sometimes, besides the puppet.
    -->So the true paingiver looks like: 1.puppet 2.TR 3.CW 4.immolationspirit 5. Warlock himself
  • hawkeyelhawkeyel Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    As far as Pillar of Power goes it sounds nice . But as an HB Fury I have found that even casting TT was often a death sentance due to it slow cast time . And you want me to stand still to use this power .No thanks I see the camp fire to many times as it is. You should give one of the Tanks TT it is the best taunt in the game.
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  • taitinhakkaajataitinhakkaaja Member Posts: 410 Arc User
    Generally all animation times are too long compared to other classes.
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  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    hawkeyel said:

    As far as Pillar of Power goes it sounds nice . But as an HB Fury I have found that even casting TT was often a death sentance due to it slow cast time . And you want me to stand still to use this power .No thanks I see the camp fire to many times as it is. You should give one of the Tanks TT it is the best taunt in the game.

    Devs want to give more flexibility and plus make other powers useful.
    Soulbinder warlock have Essence Defiler and Soul Scorch which are splash damage who do dmg instantly. While HB focusing on DoT Hellish Rebuke, While after changes Pillar of Power will act as buff/debuff. However same as u I am aware that in order to utilize this power properly u will had give up mobility. And since HB is more DoT focused its obvious monsters will love to suround, and beat the HAMSTER from you.
    Personally I hopped that Pillar of Power would before buff + strong dmg Aoe encounter, which had abbility to keep doing dmg as long victims are in its effect area.

    With upcoming changes I probably will get in difficult position. Either change from ranged warlock to more melee based and try utilize Flame of empowerment + Helltouched feat, Pillar of Power + BoVa combo. But probably will had give up offensive gear set and dmg output to compensate possible hard time in melee. :/

    With these changes HB will become stronger? No doubt he will, but do it strong enought to rival SB? Nop. Do make any competition to other classes? not a chance.

    Wonder why?
    Simply, other ones have splash based encounters, next feats add extra dmg boost on top of encounters/at wills from fight start.
    Warlocks power comes when curse is apply, or other powers get effect just after some moments or as DoT does (comes dmg after 4s or latter).. Thats mean Sw already 1 or 2 steps behind others even before fight start.
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • damoc#3687 damoc Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    @fernuu I watched different vids from you and I noticed your playstyle revolves around close quarters and the buzzsaw of BoVA. Your usual build on live reflects it as you take feats like vengeful curse and helltouched since you expect to get hit.

    Does this mean that in your tests you were comforted with your approach (I would say yes with what was shown in your vids)? Does a more ranged SW perform less well in your opinion?

    what are your thoughts (with the new changes) on a Dark revelry approach? Or on a siphoning curse approach (ie dropping borrowed time for all consuming curse and rely more on lifesteal and siphoning curse to heal as a HB could)?

    I'm trying to think in terms of diversity of builds, to see if this can be achieved with the new proposed changes and your knowledge of the SW is a shortcut I would greatly appreciate to use.

  • hawkeyelhawkeyel Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    One final thought on Piller of Power if they made it like BoVa so that it would move with you it would be a much better option. And so people want say they didnt see it coming like they do smoke bomb on the TR you could give it its on theme song. Like the Gap Band - You Dropped A Bomb on Me.

    https://youtu.be/17lkdqoLt44
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User

    Does a more ranged SW perform less well in your opinion?

    Overall, yes, particularly when you're thinking about the Soul Binder path and it's inherent defensive/healing mechanics that really don't limit it's DPS. Now, there is nothing wrong w/a more far away approach, however I wouldn't say it's a maximized approach.

    what are your thoughts (with the new changes) on a Dark revelry approach? Or on a siphoning curse approach (ie dropping borrowed time for all consuming curse and rely more on lifesteal and siphoning curse to heal as a HB could)?

    I think Dark Revelry is nice, particularly for party utility, however its not as much damage as pure Fury. The Siphoning Curse would work for a Dark Revelry build for sure... :)




    va8Ru.gif
  • jobsalotofworkjobsalotofwork Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 189 Arc User


    Soul puppet

    Soul puppets do not get increased damage against a target with warlocks curse on it.

    Wrathful souls

    Doesn't increase the damage of spitfire.

    Soul investiture

    Doesn't increase the damage of spiritfire.


    Burning puppets

    This feat is extremely weak for a tier 4 it should be changed so puppet and curses do more damage too a cursed target or something useful.

    Soul desecration

    Have it grant your soul puppet increased movement for 5s, and heal it when you give it a stack of investiture. Currently there's not much reason to use powers that summon a soul puppet once you have this, and soul puppets have wonky AI so they spend a lot of time switching/chasing targets. This would help fix both issues.





  • fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User

    @fernuu I watched different vids from you and I noticed your playstyle revolves around close quarters and the buzzsaw of BoVA. Your usual build on live reflects it as you take feats like vengeful curse and helltouched since you expect to get hit.

    Does this mean that in your tests you were comforted with your approach (I would say yes with what was shown in your vids)? Does a more ranged SW perform less well in your opinion?

    what are your thoughts (with the new changes) on a Dark revelry approach? Or on a siphoning curse approach (ie dropping borrowed time for all consuming curse and rely more on lifesteal and siphoning curse to heal as a HB could)?

    I'm trying to think in terms of diversity of builds, to see if this can be achieved with the new proposed changes and your knowledge of the SW is a shortcut I would greatly appreciate to use.

    Yeah, I'm used to fight in close range for various reasons, mostly to get all buffs from party members and Helltouched feat indeed.

    I can't say ranged warlock will be worse - they will be mostly same. It's just my playstyle and I go like that for few modules now. Also, I don't use Vengeful Curse - all those Lesser Curses are from All-Consuming Curse. It's mostly for Infernal Wrath feat and extra crit. severity.

    Dark Revelry is better now but as I tested I still thing full Fury is more (self) offensive but the gap is closer now.

    Borrowed Time is still great and more reliable than life steal, combined with BoVA it makes me really tanky. Good thing is that now some powers that were never used are becoming viable option now and with further changes and testing some new rotation might be really good.
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

    Mod 10:
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.

    Mod 9:
    [Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
  • pyrosorcererpyrosorcerer Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 137 Arc User
    A nice tweak would be making Soul Scorch a curse synergy and not consume, since it is meant to be casted multiple times and feats like Brutal Curse would work better together. Instead Dreadtheft should keep the curse consume which synergies better with feats like Parting Blasphemy.
  • fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    Well, it would be great but it also would be really overpowered so keep it like it is :)
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

    Mod 10:
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.

    Mod 9:
    [Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
  • amenaramenar Member, NW_CrypticDev Posts: 90 Arc User
    Some more updates of upcoming patch notes. These should hit preview some time next week:
    • Scourge Warlock: Artifact Class Features: Flames of Empowerment: Updated to match new new version of Flames of Empowerment. Now further increases the damage of Flames of Empowerment by 1% per stack.
    • Scourge Warlock: Feat: Burning Puppets: In addition to its existing effect, now causes your Soul Puppers to deal 2/4/6/8/10% more damage to targets affected by Lesser Curse.
    • Scourge Warlock: Feat: Gatekeeper's Empowerment: Now increases the damage of Gates of Hell by 5/10/15/20/25%, up from 1/2/3/4/5%.
    • Scourge Warlock: Feat: Gatekeeper's Empowerment: Reworked the way the bonus AP works. Previously, it listed this bonus as a percentage of your total Action Points, instead of as a modifier on the amount of AP the power grants. Reworded this so it shows as a modifier, and increased the amount it granted. This now means a Rank 4 Gates of Hell with max ranks of this Feat will grant about 20% more AP per target killed than previously.
    • Scourge Warlock: Feat: Soul Desecration: Now also increases the movement speed of your Soul Puppet. Tooltip updated to not use the word "permanent" as the Soul Puppet can still die.
    • Scourge Warlock: Feat: Wrathful Souls: Now affects the damage of Spiritfire.
    • Scourge Warlock: Gates of Hell: Increased the amount of bonus AP from killing targets per rankup to +20%, from +13.3%.
    • Scourge Warlock: Pillar of Power: Radius increased to 13', up from 10'.
    • Scourge Warlock: Soul Investiture: Now affects the damage of Spiritfire.
    • Scourge Warlock: Warlock's Curse: Soul Puppets damage is now increased by this Curse.
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    @amenar

    Your attention to this thread, and all the others, has been simply outstanding. Seriously, you deserve a standing ovation! :)
    va8Ru.gif
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  • d4rkh0rs3d4rkh0rs3 Member Posts: 382 Arc User
    @amenar does Cryptic's front desk accept beer donations
  • candinho2candinho2 Member Posts: 550 Arc User
    Is preview going to be updated today?
  • d4rkh0rs3d4rkh0rs3 Member Posts: 382 Arc User
    @pyrosorcerer that's a really good idea and I thought of that as well. Not sure if devs will allow dreadtheft to consume curses when parting blasphemy is up to 50% weapon damage, though. I think it is a fair upgrade considering dreadtheft's single target DR benefit was reduced.

    Nobody likes cursing between soul scorches. :) However, most of the time I am hitting a target market with Tyrannical Threat, so it shouldn't be an issue after these changes if I am following this correctly.
  • fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    amenar said:

    Some more updates of upcoming patch notes. These should hit preview some time next week:

    • Scourge Warlock: Artifact Class Features: Flames of Empowerment: Updated to match new new version of Flames of Empowerment. Now further increases the damage of Flames of Empowerment by 1% per stack.
    • Scourge Warlock: Feat: Burning Puppets: In addition to its existing effect, now causes your Soul Puppers to deal 2/4/6/8/10% more damage to targets affected by Lesser Curse.
    • Scourge Warlock: Feat: Gatekeeper's Empowerment: Now increases the damage of Gates of Hell by 5/10/15/20/25%, up from 1/2/3/4/5%.
    • Scourge Warlock: Feat: Gatekeeper's Empowerment: Reworked the way the bonus AP works. Previously, it listed this bonus as a percentage of your total Action Points, instead of as a modifier on the amount of AP the power grants. Reworded this so it shows as a modifier, and increased the amount it granted. This now means a Rank 4 Gates of Hell with max ranks of this Feat will grant about 20% more AP per target killed than previously.
    • Scourge Warlock: Feat: Soul Desecration: Now also increases the movement speed of your Soul Puppet. Tooltip updated to not use the word "permanent" as the Soul Puppet can still die.
    • Scourge Warlock: Feat: Wrathful Souls: Now affects the damage of Spiritfire.
    • Scourge Warlock: Gates of Hell: Increased the amount of bonus AP from killing targets per rankup to +20%, from +13.3%.
    • Scourge Warlock: Pillar of Power: Radius increased to 13', up from 10'.
    • Scourge Warlock: Soul Investiture: Now affects the damage of Spiritfire.
    • Scourge Warlock: Warlock's Curse: Soul Puppets damage is now increased by this Curse.
    This looks really great :D I really love work you're doing between patches. You're finally reading feedbacks and bug reports - that's great.
    My only concern is that you haven't stated here (and in previous updates) two things:
    - MF n:disappointed: proccing with 4/4 Killing Flames,
    - Borrowed Time w/Offhand Class Feat. not giving deflection %.

    Looking forward to testing all new changes on preview!

    Have you any Buy Me a Beer via paypal? :D
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

    Mod 10:
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.

    Mod 9:
    [Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    candinho2 said:

    Is preview going to be updated today?

    Sounds like next week for the next update.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

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  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    Please change the targeting of Gates of Hell to a normal AoE so it doesn't keep missing!
  • pyrosorcererpyrosorcerer Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    My main idea was not having to curse between the soul scorches, the dreadtheft just popped once I wrote. But I honestly think Soul Scorch being synergy would not make it OP, but rather less stressful and smoother to use.

    And great job with the updates, amenar!
  • fabioramonefabioramone Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12 Arc User
    When All Consuming Curse get rank 4, the artifact power dont give to u 5% more critical severity. Only in rank 3 u can get the bonus. Please fix it. And sorry for my bad english. :)
  • hawkeyelhawkeyel Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    As for Pillor of Power thank you for the increase of radius to match BoVA . And if you would also make it to move with you like BoVA it would find its place in my encounter set. Have done a good bit of testing first using BoVA , Pillar of Power and Killing Flames and then using BoVA , Dreadtheft and Killing Flames . If you are married to the idea that Pillar of Power cant be allowed to move with you then perhaps you could give it a more accurate name like Sitting Duck. I even tried some Gates of Miss just for fun. I did this in solo play without a buff bot team following me around so take it as such. My IL is over 3 k and my power is over 21k just for background info. I didnt die so that was a plus lol. If things stay as they are you will see even fewer people going HB SW Fury . Oh that much I am sure.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    Will the damage buffs help damnation and temptation at all? They're a little laughable atm.
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