Shadow slip is too powerfull in my opinion now, 1 second imunity perfect, now 100% initial DR and taking in consideration the reaplies, it's really powerfull when paired on a temptation in pvp.
But a temptation SW can't do anything other than that. They're not killing an equally geared character of any other class. They don't heal their team much at all, because they have low damage to begin with thanks to tenacity, and healing depression applies twice over; first to their life steal and then to their outgoing healing.
I know, that can be very frustrating but i am expecting changes to temptation and a change to tenacity, maybe not in a near time, tenacity needs rework, not just temptation warlocks, atm we see people dancing for 5-6 minutes until someone comits a failure and dies, when that change comes, 100% DR that can be reactivated upon each shadowslip is definitively too much.
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pyrosorcererMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
I don't think that the 100% DR can be reactivated between each shadowslip.
Scourge Warlock: Shadow Slip: Increased speed by 15%. Scourge Warlock: Shadow Slip: Now provides damage immunity for 1 second after activation, and loses 20% damage resistance per second while it is active, down to a minimum of 40% (this timer persist through rapid reapplications).
By there it states the timer persists through rapid reapplications, so there is a cooldown between immunity for shadwoslip.
What I am lookng forward to test is the changes to Tyrannical Curse once it is fixed. The casting time should be drastically reduced if they haven't already improved that though.
I still wonder how will Sw kill anything with current changes, we lack damage, compared to live version, we got a nerf, and it's not that we are on a good spot on live.
It's more a crutch removal than a nerf in the true sense of the term
TT->TC it appears a nerf but it was absolutely ridiculous to have to spam this daily right and left to even function in the same bracket than other damage dealers. It had become so important in the playstyle of a majority of SW than we could ask why it wasn't in the class mechanic (yeah just tab and you have TT - I know it offensive my bad) It's not the role of a daily to shore up a conceptual flaw in a class. It got the axe and rightly so.
Multimilion damage puppet -> as explained it was a bug exploit, and a boring one at that. It's normal to clean the game of such.
Very murderous flames -> also an eploit, also logic to clean.
in addition to this 3 modifications that could be taken as 'nerfs' we had a few ups:
Creeping death proccing on any power: fine and dandy BoVa is a real buzzsaw that now provide to the defense allowing it to be used as it's meant to several power buffs, most noticeably Fiery bolt with its curse synergy instead of curse consume
several feat update that do away with a lot of the ridiculously low added damage of a few % weapon damage.
Maybe the class will feel it deals less damage, maybe it will be the opposite. In any case the class will be in a saner state, with a more consistent basis for analysis in the event of further tweaking of the class
Shadow slip is too powerfull in my opinion now, 1 second imunity perfect, now 100% initial DR and taking in consideration the reaplies, it's really powerfull when paired on a temptation in pvp.
But a temptation SW can't do anything other than that. They're not killing an equally geared character of any other class. They don't heal their team much at all, because they have low damage to begin with thanks to tenacity, and healing depression applies twice over; first to their life steal and then to their outgoing healing.
like you said, when something appear to be broken should be avoided. Right? maybe we should look at the base class capabilities instead of using broken band aid... 1 seconds immunity + how SW shift works cant reach live servers (or maybe introduce a cooldown of 6-7 seconds)
100% damage resistance when shifting, well it's almost as good as many classes currently has. CW DC HR TR they all have immunity when shifting, but unlike them TR's SE will still get pierce our shifting. So i don't think that 100% damage resistance is gonna be too OP for us, but i agree testing is needed to be sure.
I don't think that the 100% DR can be reactivated between each shadowslip.
Scourge Warlock: Shadow Slip: Increased speed by 15%. Scourge Warlock: Shadow Slip: Now provides damage immunity for 1 second after activation, and loses 20% damage resistance per second while it is active, down to a minimum of 40% (this timer persist through rapid reapplications).
By there it states the timer persists through rapid reapplications, so there is a cooldown between immunity for shadwoslip.
What I am lookng forward to test is the changes to Tyrannical Curse once it is fixed. The casting time should be drastically reduced if they haven't already improved that though.
It's more a crutch removal than a nerf in the true sense of the term
TT->TC it appears a nerf but it was absolutely ridiculous to have to spam this daily right and left to even function in the same bracket than other damage dealers. It had become so important in the playstyle of a majority of SW than we could ask why it wasn't in the class mechanic (yeah just tab and you have TT - I know it offensive my bad) It's not the role of a daily to shore up a conceptual flaw in a class. It got the axe and rightly so.
Multimilion damage puppet -> as explained it was a bug exploit, and a boring one at that. It's normal to clean the game of such.
Very murderous flames -> also an eploit, also logic to clean.
in addition to this 3 modifications that could be taken as 'nerfs' we had a few ups:
Creeping death proccing on any power: fine and dandy BoVa is a real buzzsaw that now provide to the defense allowing it to be used as it's meant to several power buffs, most noticeably Fiery bolt with its curse synergy instead of curse consume
several feat update that do away with a lot of the ridiculously low added damage of a few % weapon damage.
Maybe the class will feel it deals less damage, maybe it will be the opposite. In any case the class will be in a saner state, with a more consistent basis for analysis in the event of further tweaking of the class
The above did a very good job at pointing out things and am sure testing shall show us. We cant even be sure as to our place until all the other classes have had a turn at this . This is however a good time for other striker class to get some idea as to what is coming down the line so perhaps they want feel to bad till all is done. And some final tweaks can happen. Good Day...
The issue w/ balancing sprints vs. dodges is that sprints also have the adv in better granularity that makes them better to use for, say, animation canceling. It a tricky balancing point to be sure, but I'd prob settle on an immunity phase w/ a very brief icd- but making that icd display as a self-debuff so you have a way to tell when its up.
Or.. another system (more complicated but perhaps more flexible): SW's have a 'Shadow Evasion' buff on at all times which is stacked at 2-3x (somewhat depending on how long we're making the immune phase) that grants a brief immunity phase when you next shadow slip. Stacks of this get consumed w/ each shadow slip activation, and each stack has a short refill cd that gets displayed as a self-debuff. This buff could have its max stacks increase by 1-2 w/ a feat, or something.
Anyways, Flames of Phlegethos still hasn't been buffed alongside most of the other dailies. Do the devs think its fine where it is?
We haven't even gotten to test it yet, so saying whether it's overpowered or whether TRs will still be one-shotting SWs is still up in the air.
but he will do some work for it, which by the looks of it it's not necesarly OP , but just weird ... and does look stupid.
we should bump the other idea of having shift decrease the incoming damage by a x% rather than giving immunity frames, it should just block the damage by % or someth, a layer that cannot be pierced by shocking execution ofc.
Good idea. Something like: Activating shadowslip will consume 30% of your stamina, for the next 3 seconds you will take 40% less damage from all sources, this effect can only trigger once every 6 seconds. Shadowslip would work as 40% DR all the times, this way it would be very unlikely for a fury/damnation to recast this protection over and over, making temptation in advantage due to rapid stamina regain and wouldn't be OP and it would be a better protection against TR's since SE can be canceled by roll and 1second is very unreliable and also make use of lifesteal/healing techniques since in imunity there would be nothing to heal if we did get all the hit blocked.
I would rather have all our DoTs at 6 secs rather than the current mismatch of 8 for creeping death, 6 for the curse consume of SS, 4 for the lesser curse, I don't really know the values for harrowstorm, wraith shadow, Flames of the phlegetos, hellish rebuke, warlock bargain or hadar's grasp. But I'm nitpicking.
I'm jsut saying, an harmonization of the durations/number of ticks could have its advantages
I am epic amused when guys claim that with upcoming shadow slip changes warlock will become Overpowered.. Sure 1s immunity is big stuff, But does it? Lets see.
CW - Telepor>>
Quickly teleport out of the way of incoming attacks, moving you 25 feet in any direction.
Well since I played with CW I know one stuff. When I hit Teleport I screw up either boos or player because that second I have immunity to any incoming powers.
DC - Dodge >>
Quickly shift out of the way of incoming attacks, moves you 8 feet in any direction.
I have this class character, went through lot of fights, and have been in role to attract monsters in epic dungeon, And even when I am in danger/red area either tiamat, pvp or whatever, If I use Dodge I immune to any incoming hit. So I assume its give immunity.
HR -Shift >> Quickly
shift out of the way of incoming attacks, moving you 8 feet in any direction. This power and all other Tactical dodge powers grant invulnerability frames during and for ~1 second after use. During this time, you cannot be CCed or damaged.
Its written in NWO wiki
So lets compare now with warlock 1s immunity. in possible scenarios pve: U are surrounded by group of monsters or u are in red/danger area. So:
CW hit shift and in that time 1s immunity + move away by 25 feet. = no damage u get. Hr - immune to any incoming hit and move 8 feet. = no damage u get DC - Moving 8 feets away. (never been killed while using shift so = immunity ), u get away.
SW - hit shift, animation got rendered and u already out of 1s immunity> then in your mind u can scream> This is SPARTA!!!. And yet u still don't have 100% guarantee to reach safe position alive.
pvp: CW - gwf, tr start hit u, < = teleport away in range(25 feet)from close range fighters + 1s immunity then u can cast encounters, daily powers whatever..
DC - hit shift 1s immune and move 8 feet from incoming attack. not far 8feet but yet negate incoming strike.
Hr - facing gwf, shift = step away shoot some arrows to a**s, once he try get away, u dash in front of him stab knife in a**s, if try hit u, u jump away once again.
Lets take same situation with warlock. U are attacked either TR, HR. GWF lets say even other warlock. You hit shift< unleash overpowered dodge mechanic called shadow slip< And once on your screen shadow slip animation got rendered u already out of 1s immunity. <<< But wait, we are still overpowered, we try move away from danger< bahh, u hit ground dead -_- << But wait, players told me that this shift mechanic is overpowered even before its release... (sorry for sarcasm).
If u guys think that 1s is a lot use mobile phones chronometer to check its length. And check what u can do in that 1s. Cw's,dc's,hr's,gwf's,gf's,op,sw encounter/daily power, casting take longer. In order utilize this 1s immunity even in pve u will had to hit shift just right on moment when incoming strike reach warlocks skin< Then u could negate incoming strike/cc, And lag will be ugly as ever.
So does it change a lot.< nahh. maybe on paper but not in action. It will boost warlocks survivability but will not change situation in general. After all warlocks dessing itself is around DoT based powers + life steal. And shadow slip where only to slightly boost resist against incoming hit, while DoT effect trigger life steal and restoring HP. Thats why warlock had biggest impact in mod 6 release than other classes. Enough to even check warlocks temptation warlock. All healing comes from life steal. We need not buff deffences/deflects only but life steal too. Or warlocks desing should be rebuild from zero.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
In reality, the SW gets a couple extra dodges to avoid damage, but at the cost of having stamina regen delayed for a moment after you slip.
The TR and DC on the other hand have their stamina continue to regen immediately after dodging.
It's really not as powerful as people are freaking out over.
Some more updates of upcoming patch notes. These should hit preview some time next week:
Thanks for new changes. Yet I still do waiting for information to clear some questions which are about Pillar of Power. In old version pillar of power boosted not only warlocks powers, but anyone who step in its effect area. Now does it work same or these changes are just for warlock only?
And now time for current usually stuff. Grab couple cans of beer or some vine, read possible changes and think what kind impact they will do. And since I am hellbringer furry warlock I will stick with only who are about furry HB.
Scourge Warlock: Artifact Class Features: Flames of Empowerment: Updated to match new new version of Flames of Empowerment. Now further increases the damage of Flames of Empowerment by 1% per stack.
Not bad. < Pillar or power, BoVa + these changes Probably warlock become more melee class than range
Scourge Warlock: Feat: Gatekeeper's Empowerment: Now increases the damage of Gates of Hell by 5/10/15/20/25%, up from 1/2/3/4/5%. Scourge Warlock: Feat: Gatekeeper's Empowerment: Reworked the way the bonus AP works. Previously, it listed this bonus as a percentage of your total Action Points, instead of as a modifier on the amount of AP the power grants. Reworded this so it shows as a modifier, and increased the amount it granted. This now means a Rank 4 Gates of Hell with max ranks of this Feat will grant about 20% more AP per target killed than previously. Scourge Warlock: Gates of Hell: Increased the amount of bonus AP from killing targets per rankup to +20%, from +13.3%.
Not bad, buffing gate of hell so we could rival SB's immolation spirits? Anyways, can't wait to see what I could do with these buffs.
I also come with suggestion Suggestion: Daily powers: Gate of Hell Remove Current gate of hell Circle animation Add lesser demonic/abyss portal like animation. Add arrows which indicate to which side gate or hell strike will goes(same as Cw's Sudden Storm)
On top also we need information does gate of hell strike goes as Cylinder or it's as Cone.
Scourge Warlock: Pillar of Power: Radius increased to 13', up from 10
ohh, I didn't expected that anyone would notice my suggestion to widen Pillar of Power area<< or maybe u haven't notice and come such idea by yourself Anyways, larger area means more space to dance< with enemies. `
Now speaking about changes, me and one other friend who also play warlock since it was introduction. We sit back and talked about warlock class. What he need to buff what not, and in general what warlock is itself.
So warlock's desing is around 2 most important stuffs excluding curse. And they are DoT based powers and Life steal. In mod 4, mod 5 warlocks survived dangerous situation not due CC, neither because of its def/deflect, Neither of its shift mechanic. He survived because this class is around Life steal. Enough to check old gear sets, they all had life steal which now he don't have. By old times u apply DoT, and its triggered life steal, so it was dmg + life stealing = could rival other classes.
Since mod 6, life steal changes and warlock desing flaws start to shine as brightest start in the sky. All new gear sets are totally out of life steal.. Even now I keep elemental evil artifact rather than new twisted weapon set, Plus keep belt of charisma rather than try get full Lostmout, black ice or any other artifact sets. Without them I had to give up way to much life steal.
So if instead adding only def/deflect we should look back to warlocks desing and boost its powers which he is made around. I think if we slightly rise warlocks life steal chances then over all its survivability increase, not mention temptation warlocks performance boosted up too. After all temptation warlock desing goes around life stealing. And only in mod 4 or mod 5 warlock where good in healing and could also take DC's role.
So if possible @amenar just ask team what they they think about suggestion to boosting warlocks life steal chances.... <
Will the damage buffs help damnation and temptation at all? They're a little laughable atm.
Temptation healing comes from life stealing. In order boost its performance, need boost up warlocks life steal chances itself. As for damnation, hmm, soul puppet dmg boosted while striking targets affected by lesser curse. I think its kinda big stuff. Now also I wonder if u combine Pillar of power buffs, and its buff soul puppet to. I could be kinda big changes.. Plus damination is tree is like in other mmo summoner, thats mean soul puppet will do most dmg, not your warlock itself. As for temptation, he is support type(heal/buff/debuff), So just adding dmg boost is kinda hard stuff. Dc if u make around healing. then u give up damage, if u choose damage u give up healing.
Temptation warlock is heal/buff/debuff. Thats mean all his dmg should shine only when you debuff monsters. This tree is not like furry where damage dealing is all about.
But all stuffs will be clear one new patch hit preview server
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
I also come with suggestion Suggestion: Daily powers: Gate of Hell Remove Current gate of hell Circle animation Add lesser demonic/abyss portal like animation. Add arrows which indicate to which side gate or hell strike will goes(same as Cw's Sudden Storm)
Just make it a normal AoE.
It will only be annoying to target an area, then have to rotate the direction of the daily. If that's even possible.
I also come with suggestion Suggestion: Daily powers: Gate of Hell Remove Current gate of hell Circle animation Add lesser demonic/abyss portal like animation. Add arrows which indicate to which side gate or hell strike will goes(same as Cw's Sudden Storm)
No, gates of hell has one of the most amazing animations in the game, all that is needed is a easier way to cast, i sugested like CW oppressive force @ghoulz66 sugested as a encounter (like Fiery Bolt??) and the second thing would be cast time reduction wich i think has already been done.
Temptation healing comes from life stealing. In order boost its performance, need boost up warlocks life steal chances itself. As for damnation, hmm, soul puppet dmg boosted while striking targets affected by lesser curse. I think its kinda big stuff. Now also I wonder if u combine Pillar of power buffs, and its buff soul puppet to. I could be kinda big changes.. Plus damination is tree is like in other mmo summoner, thats mean soul puppet will do most dmg, not your warlock itself. As for temptation, he is support type(heal/buff/debuff), So just adding dmg boost is kinda hard stuff. Dc if u make around healing. then u give up damage, if u choose damage u give up healing.
There is no need to boost healing performance further at endmage at least, i've tried HB temptation on preview after first parches and it was working really good, what is needed is a increase in the % of damage that will heal your team and had a cap, benefit begginers and give devs the limits of the class healing, And yes for temptation team buffs other than heal would imo be good, not something drastic, and something that would scale with the party so it would only be a marginal buff on a bad team, but a bit better buff on teams that demand speed run so SW would be better accepted in "pve premade" but also something that would give lower IL players more boost in % than the high IL players in the party to increase their performance but still increase party performance as a whole that's why i gave this sugestion back in the beggining of the feedback.
Feedback: Feat: soul bonding This feat is very unreliable for starter players that have not yet achieve a good amount off life steal, on the opposite end endgame player focusing in single target can entirely heal the party in many dungeons.
My sugestion: -Single target powers used by the SW will heal allied players by 150% of your life steal and 50% on aoe's, this value cannot exceed 35%(12%in aoe's) additionally; -When this power fails to heal one of your allies your allies gain Hellbound this will grant: +5% the power of the ally you failed to heal to all your party; +5% the recovery of the ally you failed to heal to all your party; +10% the regeneration of the ally you failed to heal to all your party; +10% the deflection of the ally you failed to heal to all your party; 50' range; Can trigger in up to 3 allies; Will ignore any kind of exterior buffs, companion augments, bonding runestone, will only be applied to equipment and boons; 10 second duration.
-Additionally when a ally nearby is revived will drain 5% of the nearby ally currently with more hit points as shield hit points for himself and 50% deflect chance for 2 seconds. Cooldown 10 seconds; 50' range; No more than 10 000 hitpoints; Will affect all kinds of HP, temp, shields; If all the allies within 50' are bellow 50% health this power will drain 3% of the ally with more hp but grant 5 times more to the resurected player. If all the allies within 50' are bellow 30% health this power will drain 2% of the ally with more hp but grant 10 times more to the resurected player. These shield hitpoints would drain after 4 seconds if not consumed.
So for example, i fall in battle, i will steal my ally wich is at 200k hp now 10k and get 50% deflect chance for 2 seconds. If he was at 30% hp, i would steal 1200 but still get resurected with 10k shield hit points.
What would be your favorite encounter for PVP atm? I did not test a lot on preview, but have no real visions about the encounter and rotation that will fit for a casterclass, wich warlocks are in my opinion. I guess Warlocks Bargain still is a must have. BoVa for sparks and deflect maybe too but I struggle with that on-off mechanic and the fact that I am no melee class, maybe I get used to it but I have my doubts. DT was an big DR boost adn the Buff did not run off the second DT ended plus it worked from distance and vs stealthed classes.
I am curious about the shadow slip mechanic, if it will improve things. My DC can chain dodges, if I put some effort in staminagain/feats.The furylock will be condemed to be a melleclass, since his staminagain is at a poor level, interrupet by shift, and Bova seems to be the new meta. I tend to go temptation but the damageloss will be significant missing tools to beat some classes. The encounter I used till now in PVP, depending on opponent were WB+DT most time and HG, harrowstorm, Wraith shadow to debuff GF´s...that´s it pretty much, SS some times also. I pretty much can´t see the light for PVP atm, missing real burst-encounter, DOT are a disadvantage , I´d like to see some alternatives. Killing flame is no real finisher in my eyes since it deals very poor numbers compared to SE, Anvil, Bullcharge, Iceknife and only works in case your target is near dead.
I´d like to improve Killing flame to be a real burst encounter. Anvil from GF deals pretty high numbers now at 50% health. CW´s Iceknife kicks pretty hard too, not to talk about shocking execution. And if this is no option for devs and we are a class, condemned to kill by DOT´s, I want my Dot´s to kill other player ! Piercing damage to creeping death like etelgrin said might be a good alternativ for a class without real finisher, punished in every aspect like --> DOT´s trigger negation stacks and serve a constant proc to insigniaboni, giving my opponent the best defense right from the start- a worlock has to cast 10 rotations to build up his sparks atm (this might improve with rework). My last experience (temptation) against well build GWF´s was: I casted endless rotations on that class and did not get his HP down a bit, no matter what I tried, even outplayed the other one, him not able to selfheal, not able to stack selfbuffs most time. All healing done by insignia+drowned set+ wheel, crappy experience I would say.
Remember , you took a lot by nerfing IS+TT, and puppet seems to be at a normal level. A GWF can selfbuff his damage by the factor of >6, dealing >100k with sure strike (autobuffed solo) A GF can selfbuff his damage by mark 20%, Tide of iron 20%, shield warrior wrath 20%, ITF 30%, knigts challenge 100%, Villains menace and more Not to talk about feats like Steely defense and disciple of war wich grants you more stats and more stats the higher you stack others, same was with ITF I can go on but am tired doing so.... give us the same crappy options others got or balance/fix them please.
So please devs take time, test stuff, rethink everything twice or 3 times.... but don´t fail with this rework. Otherwise I am done, not wanting to wait another two years to get a class wich is on par with other overperfroming classes in PVP.
[...] And since I am hellbringer furry warlock I will stick with only who are about furry HB.[...]
Yeah, furry warlocks are the best (and cutest)
Indeed at this moment in live server furry hellbringers dmg is just cute, not threatening to monsters or players in pvp. And DoT based powers works as allergy. U apply DoT and hope that >One day target die<. And till that happens u hold line and try to survive. And this is why I hate Creeping death feat.. In very start, mod 4 when warlock introduced. Creeping death did more dmg than it do now.. I mean it was not 60% but 100%. Plus monsters where weaker, so over all dmg output was kinda high. Now its not, and over all warlocks performance is like highly lagged CW which barely survived after god crashed in upcoming train.
No, gates of hell has one of the most amazing animations in the game, all that is needed is a easier way to cast, i sugested like CW oppressive force @ghoulz66 sugested as a encounter (like Fiery Bolt??) and the second thing would be cast time reduction which i think has already been done.
So if we make it similar to Cw's oppresive force thats mean over all its dmg will be cut a lot. gate of hell works as Cw's Furious Immolation and Maelstrom of Chaos. Plus we already have daily powers; 1) AoE: Tyrannical Curse. Plus instant aoe around player, accursed soul, 2)single target: Flames of Phlegethos 3) instant aoe around player: accursed souls.
So only remain high dmg aoe in small area.
As for purpose making Gate of hell as Fiery bolt. Good side would be instant casting, no need placing where it had to hit. Downside u lose possibility to put GoH behind monsters and allow this power had Combat advantage effect which boost dmg even more.
Personally I really love Cw's Furious Immolation daily power, which not only do blast enemies and prone them. That daily power have effect to draw all monsters in one place.. And I wonder if we add same effect to gate of hell, draw monsters to attack area. Does it make more easy to use??
There is no need to boost healing performance further at endmage at least, i've tried HB temptation on preview after first parches and it was working really good, what is needed is a increase in the % of damage that will heal your team and had a cap, benefit begginers and give devs the limits of the class healing, And yes for temptation team buffs other than heal would imo be good, not something drastic, and something that would scale with the party so it would only be a marginal buff on a bad team, but a bit better buff on teams that demand speed run so SW would be better accepted in "pve premade" but also something that would give lower IL players more boost in % than the high IL players in the party to increase their performance but still increase party performance as a whole that's why i gave this sugestion back in the beggining of the feedback.
My suggestion targeting not only in Endgame, neither to boost it in drastic scales. Minor boosting for testings would not hurt. And if it will cause too high survivability rates it can be adjusted. It would not make warlock so freaky overpowered.
If u notice temptation warlocks feats are not around dmg, it's around buffing/debuffing and life steal. And through life steal templock heal allies. So my suggestion to boost life steal rates is for templocks mostly. Why do u think templocks where exterminated with mod 6?? All due lfie steal changes, and since life steal rates decrease so much that heal with warlock become impossible. So does boosting dmg will help to heal. Nop. Plus temptation warlock is not about dealing dmg over all. His dmg comes from, basic warlocks dmg + debuffing enemies, and through debufing/inflicting bad stats warlock gets higher dmg output.
if we as u suggest boost x% dmg. Then on top add templocks self healing + debuffs. Which eventually kill reason play with other warlocks trees. Why bother with furry if u can have decent dmg + debuff + higher survivability? Why bother with damination and wait till soul puppet kill monsters if u can have decent dmg + debufs + higher survivability? in mod 5 lot of players where templocks because it was almost immortal and plus it was not bounded to curse mechanic(3 targets) as furry where.
I read your suggestion, and it's sounds to making warlock more to dc/op. Now u will have decent dmg + healing with every hit.
Sure I would like to buff temptlocks. But with this it would cause epic rage from Op and DC community not due healing. But because warlock will be able cause more dmg than they do + heal.
From my view point I can only suggest make debuffs which temptation warlock cause to be more harsh and cause bigger bad stats than they does now and boost up life steal rates + chances.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
It would take quite a bit of boosting to late-Tempt feats to make Tempt have comparable dps to Fury. I wouldn't be too worried about that at this juncture.
Its kinda weird that they've staved off major changes to Tempt for now when they seem to be pushing through for Combat HRs, which I'd prob put in a worse state atm :x
For the temptation tree Amenar clearly said they had their ideas but they couldn't implement them in the restricted timeframe untill next module release.
that said, and it's not entirely liited to SW each tree should realy push a class in a direction Fury: damage dealer Damnation: puppet Temptation: support (be it buff/debuff or heal). for now everyone is aware that the temptation tree is not up to stuff beacause it essentialy do a 'litle bit of this, and that!' but it does nothing specifically
I would realy like something more like a T4-T5-capstone feats rework in the lines maybe of 'if you or a member of your team strikes a cursed target, then a effect similar to feytouched enchant applies' ot 'cursed targets take %more CA damage' or 'your team gets x% additional deflect chance against cursed target' and the capstone could be 'when a member of your team lifesteal, every member of the team lifesteal on their next attack with the highest lifesteal severity of the team. Additionaly, your lesser curse lasts twice as long and vampiric embrace heal is considered as lifesteal'
in all the examples above, cursed mean any curse. O f course it would need some serious thinking through to avoid any ITF come back but with this
Temptation did get a boost due to class power changes. You can get a lot more lifesteal from class features, and that shouldn't be ignored.
Granted the lifesteal in this game is a problem as it's defense based on offense. Something the devs didn't like in reverse with ITF. Hopefully future changes will correct this issue.
For the temptation tree Amenar clearly said they had their ideas but they couldn't implement them in the restricted timeframe untill next module release.
And this is number 1 which worry more than anything else. Balancing done in rush could lead to bigger problems. Warlock is different from other classes and can't be buffed same way as CW, DC, gwf, gf. warlock does now a lot of debuffs to boost its dmg output, not mention DoT powers. So slight problem can lead for another Murderous flames bug abusing.
that said, and it's not entirely liited to SW each tree should realy push a class in a direction Fury: damage dealer Damnation: puppet Temptation: support (be it buff/debuff or heal). for now everyone is aware that the temptation tree is not up to stuff beacause it essentialy do a 'litle bit of this, and that!' but it does nothing specifically
Well if we look to furry tree his dmg are around curse mechanic: ( I use old wiki stats)
Offering to the Prisoner - When a Cursed target is killed, your damage is increased by 1/2/3/4/5% for 15 seconds. Killing Curse - When attacking a Cursed target, you deal an additional 1/2/3/4/5% of your weapon damage. Brutal Curse - Your Warlock's Curse increases your damage against affected targets by an additional 2/4/6/8/10%.
So if I attack cursed single target, = 20% curse mechanic + 10% Brutal Curse + 5% weapon damage + if u killed cursed target before your dmg is increased by 5%. Sounds freaky powerful boost. But its all as coin which have 2 sides. And negative side is no curse = no benefits. So obvious that furry HB will stay with: Pity, No Mercy and all consuming curse class features. While Flames of Empowerment and its changes will be used for Temptation or Damination.
I would realy like something more like a T4-T5-capstone feats rework in the lines maybe of 'if you or a member of your team strikes a cursed target, then a effect similar to feytouched enchant applies' ot 'cursed targets take %more CA damage' or 'your team gets x% additional deflect chance against cursed target' and the capstone could be 'when a member of your team lifesteal, every member of the team lifesteal on their next attack with the highest lifesteal severity of the team. Additionaly, your lesser curse lasts twice as long and vampiric embrace heal is considered as lifesteal'
I would really love if temptation warlocks tree will have more harsh debuffs, more better buffs and improved healing.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
5% weapon damage = 1200-95% or 1200*0,05=60 damge, remember it isn't piercing damage,now go kill anything with that. Now it does 50% weapon damage, so 1200-50% or 1200*0,5= 600 damage, remember it isn't piercing damage, so 600-%DR.
@amenar adding piercing to creeping death would be awesome and sharing warlock's tenacity with pet that will be a good change if the player goes pvp with damnation path. Warlock should be like death by dot class in pvp. My other suggestion for damnation in pvp is give 100% tenacity to pet and some damage to it. Give 15 secs for pet to automatically dissipate and 8 sec CD to summon pet again. If the player chose to dissipate the pet before it automatically dissipate it will buff the Warlock's damage for a short period of time when the buff ends the CD to summon the pet again triggers. Basically the idea is warlock's soul puppet should not die that much easily to the opponent at least not with one or two hits and tanky enough to draw opponent's attention. Path like damnation allow warlock to work in conjunction with soul puppet to take down enemy.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Damnation will never be a viable pvp path ever. The puppet can't CC, it can't hit anything moving, never deal enough damage to pose a threat.
Now if it added some utility it might be a different story. It's AoE damage feat could also slow the movement speed allowing people to have trouble chasing or running away. The 10% damage reduction while the puppet is summoned could be tripled for pvp.
@amenar adding piercing to creeping death would be awesome and sharing warlock's tenacity with pet that will be a good change if the player goes pvp with damnation path. Warlock should be like death by dot class in pvp. My other suggestion for damnation in pvp is give 100% tenacity to pet and some damage to it. Give 15 secs for pet to automatically dissipate and 8 sec CD to summon pet again. If the player chose to dissipate the pet before it automatically dissipate it will buff the Warlock's damage for a short period of time when the buff ends the CD to summon the pet again triggers. Basically the idea is warlock's soul puppet should not die that much easily to the opponent at least not with one or two hits and tanky enough to draw opponent's attention. Path like damnation allow warlock to work in conjunction with soul puppet to take down enemy.
Hmm I am not against piercing Creeping death, but It will still be same as it where in mod 5. Which still required in pvp SW player put more effort than others, plus your real dmg will still comes after some time. Thats mean if u get good chance to attack player from back who is not aware of danger. Even u release all encounter rotation or even 2 rotations, your full dmg is done in ~8s. If its OP or DC your creeping death will be easy countered with heal over time. AS it where in mod 5.
As for tenacity. Nahh, I prefer that soul puppet would get over all percentage of players stats rather than tenacity only.
Damnation will never be a viable pvp path ever. The puppet can't CC, it can't hit anything moving, never deal enough damage to pose a threat.
Now if it added some utility it might be a different story. It's AoE damage feat could also slow the movement speed allowing people to have trouble chasing or running away. The 10% damage reduction while the puppet is summoned could be tripled for pvp.
In of my posts in this thread, I suggested to change current Wraith of shadow encounter. So that it would throw spider web like final boss in Spider temple. So it would be good stuff for damnation.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Creeping Death is in need of a fix. It should deal piercing damage based off of the initial damage after mitigation, to make it a true 60% damage bonus. Right now, the procs are mitigated or buffed separately, which means it can either hit for very little if the target's mitigation is high, or hit for much more than intended if mitigation is low and the SW is receiving considerable damage boosts.
This leads to two different outcomes: Creeping Death over-performing in PvE, and under-performing in PvP. That makes it a bit of a crutch for the class, similar to some issues that are now being fixed, like Murderous Flames.
How do you know that creeping death is buffed seperately? Maybe I missunderstood you. If you go solo against a dummy your maximum benefit for creeping death, in case you spammed WC in a 100% propper way, is allways: your damage + 60% CD, calculated by the damage you did. Act is spitting a maximum damage dealt by CD of about 60/160=37,5% overall damage by Creeping death. I never did more, many times less damage with this unhandy capstone. In a party I never dealt more than 37,5% damage with creeping death. It´s allways something about 16% (if I am lucky) or worse, never ever happened to overperform in my case. Maybe I missed my TAB too much times...in the end I left fury due to this "nonesense-no-fun-perma-TAB-spammer-capstone". If CD would be buffed sepearely, there should happen crazy single blows not corresponding to the dealt damage, but there aren´t as far as I know. A team of two player should be able to demonstrate it like GF casting ITF after warlock casted a DoT on a target.
I think CD is punished by tenacity and maybe block or other layers a second/third time in PVP. Can´t say if damageresist also is involved two times but this may be tested by hitting a dummy (as far as they got DR) with zero RI and with ful RI leading to far worse results than 37% damage from CD at low RI.
I also doubt, that CD will deal insane high results against a target with low defense in PVP. It will allways be worse than results in PVE as long as the target has any kind of tenacity and it never dealt insane numbers by megabuffs in my case. It´s allways tied to the inital hit/damage and punished obviuosly in PVP a second time leading to hit´s like "16" against GF´s. That´s my observation so far, but maybe I lost some important points in my calculations.
What bother me in this discussion is: some classes deal 50-100k hits with single encounter or at wills in PVP and cry rivers, the moment their damage gets downscaled and we have to fight for improvements of some rediculesly underwhelming feats/powers leading to improvement like CD will maybe deal 24 instead of 16 damage against a shielded GF or GWF at full DR/defense. There is no real improvement as far as I can predict the coming changes, wich can be considered to be a thread against some of those classes, I also know that it is not an easy task and it should not be overdone by buffing things too much. We have to fight on node in leatherarmor and have to facetank some classes with platemail , highest burst abilies, but our damageoutput against those classes is redicouless, them having piercing/deflect/shield/dodge/immunity frames (TR can be 100% immune if he likes to) plus same mobilty or better in some asepects.
Talking about GF, I read about player who would like to get even more mobility from ITF buff, having easy game with all those caster classes, no need to switch their rotation any time, sticking with ITF/BC/Anvil or even KC 100% for ever. Atm you run faster than a warlock by casting ITF, only a templock can stay at distance, on top that class can use several encounter/atwill as gapcloser or slow target or cc target: Knee breaker, lounging strike, frontline surge, threatening rush, bullcharge , indomitable strenght, line breaker assault ... I think that´s enough to get in range, right? Even their DOt´s seem to be more powerfull on paper, talking about jagged blades a 750% weapondamage-Dot on crit.. i can´t find anything compareable in warlock´s feat tree.
How do I get this couloured in blue? Again....creeping death should be piercing and not dowscaled two times by powers like shield, tenacity and more.
Temptation capstone should not be punished two times from healing depression in PVP, once deminished is far enough. So please stop the outgoing heals from being capped by healing depression , you allready get punisehd by limited effect of lifesteal, this could make temptation be at least a supporter, though he is hardly able to kill some classes. Even doing so we will never ever reach the power of a DC making your whole party immune to death at higher levels.
Post edited by schietindebux on
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
My suggestion targeting not only in Endgame, neither to boost it in drastic scales. Minor boosting for testings would not hurt. And if it will cause too high survivability rates it can be adjusted. It would not make warlock so freaky overpowered.
If u notice temptation warlocks feats are not around dmg, it's around buffing/debuffing and life steal. And through life steal templock heal allies. So my suggestion to boost life steal rates is for templocks mostly. Why do u think templocks where exterminated with mod 6?? All due lfie steal changes, and since life steal rates decrease so much that heal with warlock become impossible. So does boosting dmg will help to heal. Nop. Plus temptation warlock is not about dealing dmg over all. His dmg comes from, basic warlocks dmg + debuffing enemies, and through debufing/inflicting bad stats warlock gets higher dmg output.
if we as u suggest boost x% dmg. Then on top add templocks self healing + debuffs. Which eventually kill reason play with other warlocks trees. Why bother with furry if u can have decent dmg + debuff + higher survivability? Why bother with damination and wait till soul puppet kill monsters if u can have decent dmg + debufs + higher survivability? in mod 5 lot of players where templocks because it was almost immortal and plus it was not bounded to curse mechanic(3 targets) as furry where.
I read your suggestion, and it's sounds to making warlock more to dc/op. Now u will have decent dmg + healing with every hit.
Sure I would like to buff temptlocks. But with this it would cause epic rage from Op and DC community not due healing. But because warlock will be able cause more dmg than they do + heal.
From my view point I can only suggest make debuffs which temptation warlock cause to be more harsh and cause bigger bad stats than they does now and boost up life steal rates + chances.
By increasing the % of heal based on your ls, to lets say 150% single target would absolutly not be endgame focused, take this example:
--2k SW, still very squishy, found savages on the summer fest, that will help him/her a lot surviving and still contributing to party heal, his static ls is 4000(10%), the feated ls will raise it to 13%, the final ls will be 23% wich will result in modest healing, increasing the % of heal based on your life steal to 150% will increase that heal without increase SW survival wich is already well buffed by feats, the only thing left to make sure is that the player wont heal too much, like OP devotion because it's suposed to be a suport dps( they will rage either way, let them cry), not a full support, for that we set a cap on soul bonding resulting in heal meaning endgame will only see it's healing increased by increasing damage wich makes sence, SW is a DPS class, no matter wich buffs provide still needs to contribute with dps, the "too much healing" would be seen in players with crazy high dps as 2k players would be abble to give the main healer a much better help in the content made for their's IL.
And SW cant get much heavier debuffs/buffs in terms of damage for a simple reason, atm on preview if you build temptation HB for example you will be offering your party: debuff on single target from hand of blight, 5% damage reduction from aura of despair, 5% damage reduction from hellish condemnation, compounded soul, 30% damage reduction from WoS that can be perfectly used as dps power in single target, dark revelry, infernal wrath, pillar of power, shared buffs or damage resistance lower on the target, DT DR and damage reduction up to 3 targets, almost all this can be provided without going for soul bonding, so if there should be a introduction to party buffs to temptatio it would either be small, but noticeable enough to make it worth or reduce on the powers above and big a heavier buff on temptation.
Comments
I know, that can be very frustrating but i am expecting changes to temptation and a change to tenacity, maybe not in a near time, tenacity needs rework, not just temptation warlocks, atm we see people dancing for 5-6 minutes until someone comits a failure and dies, when that change comes, 100% DR that can be reactivated upon each shadowslip is definitively too much.
Scourge Warlock: Shadow Slip: Increased speed by 15%.
Scourge Warlock: Shadow Slip: Now provides damage immunity for 1 second after activation, and loses 20% damage resistance per second while it is active, down to a minimum of 40% (this timer persist through rapid reapplications).
By there it states the timer persists through rapid reapplications, so there is a cooldown between immunity for shadwoslip.
What I am lookng forward to test is the changes to Tyrannical Curse once it is fixed. The casting time should be drastically reduced if they haven't already improved that though.
TT->TC it appears a nerf but it was absolutely ridiculous to have to spam this daily right and left to even function in the same bracket than other damage dealers. It had become so important in the playstyle of a majority of SW than we could ask why it wasn't in the class mechanic (yeah just tab and you have TT - I know it offensive my bad) It's not the role of a daily to shore up a conceptual flaw in a class. It got the axe and rightly so.
Multimilion damage puppet -> as explained it was a bug exploit, and a boring one at that. It's normal to clean the game of such.
Very murderous flames -> also an eploit, also logic to clean.
in addition to this 3 modifications that could be taken as 'nerfs' we had a few ups:
Creeping death proccing on any power: fine and dandy
BoVa is a real buzzsaw that now provide to the defense allowing it to be used as it's meant to
several power buffs, most noticeably Fiery bolt with its curse synergy instead of curse consume
several feat update that do away with a lot of the ridiculously low added damage of a few % weapon damage.
Maybe the class will feel it deals less damage, maybe it will be the opposite. In any case the class will be in a saner state, with a more consistent basis for analysis in the event of further tweaking of the class
1 seconds immunity + how SW shift works cant reach live servers (or maybe introduce a cooldown of 6-7 seconds)
So i don't think that 100% damage resistance is gonna be too OP for us, but i agree testing is needed to be sure.
Or.. another system (more complicated but perhaps more flexible): SW's have a 'Shadow Evasion' buff on at all times which is stacked at 2-3x (somewhat depending on how long we're making the immune phase) that grants a brief immunity phase when you next shadow slip. Stacks of this get consumed w/ each shadow slip activation, and each stack has a short refill cd that gets displayed as a self-debuff. This buff could have its max stacks increase by 1-2 w/ a feat, or something.
Anyways, Flames of Phlegethos still hasn't been buffed alongside most of the other dailies. Do the devs think its fine where it is?
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
I'm jsut saying, an harmonization of the durations/number of ticks could have its advantages
Lets see.
CW - Telepor>> Well since I played with CW I know one stuff. When I hit Teleport I screw up either boos or player because that second I have immunity to any incoming powers.
DC - Dodge >> I have this class character, went through lot of fights, and have been in role to attract monsters in epic dungeon,
And even when I am in danger/red area either tiamat, pvp or whatever, If I use Dodge I immune to any incoming hit. So I assume its give immunity.
HR -Shift >> Quickly Its written in NWO wiki
So lets compare now with warlock 1s immunity. in possible scenarios
pve:
U are surrounded by group of monsters or u are in red/danger area.
So:
CW hit shift and in that time 1s immunity + move away by 25 feet. = no damage u get.
Hr - immune to any incoming hit and move 8 feet. = no damage u get
DC - Moving 8 feets away. (never been killed while using shift so = immunity ), u get away.
SW - hit shift, animation got rendered and u already out of 1s immunity> then in your mind u can scream> This is SPARTA!!!.
And yet u still don't have 100% guarantee to reach safe position alive.
pvp:
CW - gwf, tr start hit u, < = teleport away in range(25 feet)from close range fighters + 1s immunity then u can cast encounters, daily powers whatever..
DC - hit shift 1s immune and move 8 feet from incoming attack. not far 8feet but yet negate incoming strike.
Hr - facing gwf, shift = step away shoot some arrows to a**s, once he try get away, u dash in front of him stab knife in a**s, if try hit u, u jump away once again.
Lets take same situation with warlock.
U are attacked either TR, HR. GWF lets say even other warlock.
You hit shift< unleash overpowered dodge mechanic called shadow slip<
And once on your screen shadow slip animation got rendered u already out of 1s immunity. <<< But wait, we are still overpowered, we try move away from danger< bahh, u hit ground dead -_- <<
But wait, players told me that this shift mechanic is overpowered even before its release... (sorry for sarcasm).
If u guys think that 1s is a lot use mobile phones chronometer to check its length. And check what u can do in that 1s.
Cw's,dc's,hr's,gwf's,gf's,op,sw encounter/daily power, casting take longer.
In order utilize this 1s immunity even in pve u will had to hit shift just right on moment when incoming strike reach warlocks skin< Then u could negate incoming strike/cc, And lag will be ugly as ever.
So does it change a lot.< nahh. maybe on paper but not in action.
It will boost warlocks survivability but will not change situation in general.
After all warlocks dessing itself is around DoT based powers + life steal.
And shadow slip where only to slightly boost resist against incoming hit, while DoT effect trigger life steal and restoring HP.
Thats why warlock had biggest impact in mod 6 release than other classes. Enough to even check warlocks temptation warlock. All healing comes from life steal. We need not buff deffences/deflects only but life steal too. Or warlocks desing should be rebuild from zero.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
The TR and DC on the other hand have their stamina continue to regen immediately after dodging.
It's really not as powerful as people are freaking out over.
Yet I still do waiting for information to clear some questions which are about Pillar of Power.
In old version pillar of power boosted not only warlocks powers, but anyone who step in its effect area.
Now does it work same or these changes are just for warlock only?
And now time for current usually stuff. Grab couple cans of beer or some vine, read possible changes and think what kind impact they will do.
And since I am hellbringer furry warlock I will stick with only who are about furry HB.
Not bad. < Pillar or power, BoVa + these changes Probably warlock become more melee class than range
I also come with suggestion
Suggestion: Daily powers: Gate of Hell
Remove Current gate of hell Circle animation
Add lesser demonic/abyss portal like animation.
Add arrows which indicate to which side gate or hell strike will goes(same as Cw's Sudden Storm)
On top also we need information does gate of hell strike goes as Cylinder or it's as Cone.
ohh, I didn't expected that anyone would notice my suggestion to widen Pillar of Power area<< or maybe u haven't notice and come such idea by yourself
Anyways, larger area means more space to dance< with enemies.
`
Now speaking about changes, me and one other friend who also play warlock since it was introduction. We sit back and talked about warlock class. What he need to buff what not, and in general what warlock is itself.
So warlock's desing is around 2 most important stuffs excluding curse.
And they are DoT based powers and Life steal.
In mod 4, mod 5 warlocks survived dangerous situation not due CC, neither because of its def/deflect, Neither of its shift mechanic. He survived because this class is around Life steal. Enough to check old gear sets, they all had life steal which now he don't have. By old times u apply DoT, and its triggered life steal, so it was dmg + life stealing = could rival other classes.
Since mod 6, life steal changes and warlock desing flaws start to shine as brightest start in the sky.
All new gear sets are totally out of life steal.. Even now I keep elemental evil artifact rather than new twisted weapon set, Plus keep belt of charisma rather than try get full Lostmout, black ice or any other artifact sets. Without them I had to give up way to much life steal.
So if instead adding only def/deflect we should look back to warlocks desing and boost its powers which he is made around.
I think if we slightly rise warlocks life steal chances then over all its survivability increase, not mention temptation warlocks performance boosted up too. After all temptation warlock desing goes around life stealing. And only in mod 4 or mod 5 warlock where good in healing and could also take DC's role.
So if possible @amenar just ask team what they they think about suggestion to boosting warlocks life steal chances.... <
<blockquote class="UserQuote">
Will the damage buffs help damnation and temptation at all? They're a little laughable atm.
Temptation healing comes from life stealing. In order boost its performance, need boost up warlocks life steal chances itself.
As for damnation, hmm, soul puppet dmg boosted while striking targets affected by lesser curse. I think its kinda big stuff. Now also I wonder if u combine Pillar of power buffs, and its buff soul puppet to. I could be kinda big changes..
Plus damination is tree is like in other mmo summoner, thats mean soul puppet will do most dmg, not your warlock itself.
As for temptation, he is support type(heal/buff/debuff), So just adding dmg boost is kinda hard stuff.
Dc if u make around healing. then u give up damage, if u choose damage u give up healing.
Temptation warlock is heal/buff/debuff. Thats mean all his dmg should shine only when you debuff monsters.
This tree is not like furry where damage dealing is all about.
But all stuffs will be clear one new patch hit preview server
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
It will only be annoying to target an area, then have to rotate the direction of the daily. If that's even possible.
I did not test a lot on preview, but have no real visions about the encounter and rotation that will fit for a casterclass, wich warlocks are in my opinion.
I guess Warlocks Bargain still is a must have.
BoVa for sparks and deflect maybe too but I struggle with that on-off mechanic and the fact that I am no melee class, maybe I get used to it but I have my doubts. DT was an big DR boost adn the Buff did not run off the second DT ended plus it worked from distance and vs stealthed classes.
I am curious about the shadow slip mechanic, if it will improve things. My DC can chain dodges, if I put some effort in staminagain/feats.The furylock will be condemed to be a melleclass, since his staminagain is at a poor level, interrupet by shift, and Bova seems to be the new meta.
I tend to go temptation but the damageloss will be significant missing tools to beat some classes.
The encounter I used till now in PVP, depending on opponent were WB+DT most time and HG, harrowstorm, Wraith shadow to debuff GF´s...that´s it pretty much, SS some times also.
I pretty much can´t see the light for PVP atm, missing real burst-encounter, DOT are a disadvantage , I´d like to see some alternatives.
Killing flame is no real finisher in my eyes since it deals very poor numbers compared to SE, Anvil, Bullcharge, Iceknife and only works in case your target is near dead.
I´d like to improve Killing flame to be a real burst encounter. Anvil from GF deals pretty high numbers now at 50% health.
CW´s Iceknife kicks pretty hard too, not to talk about shocking execution. And if this is no option for devs and we are a class, condemned to kill by DOT´s, I want my Dot´s to kill other player !
Piercing damage to creeping death like etelgrin said might be a good alternativ for a class without real finisher, punished in every aspect like --> DOT´s trigger negation stacks and serve a constant proc to insigniaboni, giving my opponent the best defense right from the start- a worlock has to cast 10 rotations to build up his sparks atm (this might improve with rework).
My last experience (temptation) against well build GWF´s was: I casted endless rotations on that class and did not get his HP down a bit, no matter what I tried, even outplayed the other one, him not able to selfheal, not able to stack selfbuffs most time.
All healing done by insignia+drowned set+ wheel, crappy experience I would say.
Remember , you took a lot by nerfing IS+TT, and puppet seems to be at a normal level.
A GWF can selfbuff his damage by the factor of >6, dealing >100k with sure strike (autobuffed solo)
A GF can selfbuff his damage by mark 20%, Tide of iron 20%, shield warrior wrath 20%, ITF 30%, knigts challenge 100%, Villains menace and more
Not to talk about feats like Steely defense and disciple of war wich grants you more stats and more stats the higher you stack others, same was with ITF
I can go on but am tired doing so.... give us the same crappy options others got or balance/fix them please.
So please devs take time, test stuff, rethink everything twice or 3 times.... but don´t fail with this rework. Otherwise I am done, not wanting to wait another two years to get a class wich is on par with other overperfroming classes in PVP.
And this is why I hate Creeping death feat.. In very start, mod 4 when warlock introduced. Creeping death did more dmg than it do now.. I mean it was not 60% but 100%. Plus monsters where weaker, so over all dmg output was kinda high. Now its not, and over all warlocks performance is like highly lagged CW which barely survived after god crashed in upcoming train.
<blockquote class="UserQuote">
No, gates of hell has one of the most amazing animations in the game, all that is needed is a easier way to cast, i sugested like CW oppressive force @ghoulz66 sugested as a encounter (like Fiery Bolt??) and the second thing would be cast time reduction which i think has already been done.
So if we make it similar to Cw's oppresive force thats mean over all its dmg will be cut a lot. gate of hell works as Cw's Furious Immolation and Maelstrom of Chaos.
Plus we already have daily powers;
1) AoE: Tyrannical Curse. Plus instant aoe around player, accursed soul,
2)single target: Flames of Phlegethos
3) instant aoe around player: accursed souls.
So only remain high dmg aoe in small area.
As for purpose making Gate of hell as Fiery bolt.
Good side would be instant casting, no need placing where it had to hit.
Downside u lose possibility to put GoH behind monsters and allow this power had Combat advantage effect which boost dmg even more.
Personally I really love Cw's Furious Immolation daily power, which not only do blast enemies and prone them. That daily power have effect to draw all monsters in one place.. And I wonder if we add same effect to gate of hell, draw monsters to attack area. Does it make more easy to use??
My suggestion targeting not only in Endgame, neither to boost it in drastic scales. Minor boosting for testings would not hurt. And if it will cause too high survivability rates it can be adjusted. It would not make warlock so freaky overpowered.
If u notice temptation warlocks feats are not around dmg, it's around buffing/debuffing and life steal. And through life steal templock heal allies. So my suggestion to boost life steal rates is for templocks mostly.
Why do u think templocks where exterminated with mod 6?? All due lfie steal changes, and since life steal rates decrease so much that heal with warlock become impossible. So does boosting dmg will help to heal. Nop.
Plus temptation warlock is not about dealing dmg over all. His dmg comes from, basic warlocks dmg + debuffing enemies, and through debufing/inflicting bad stats warlock gets higher dmg output.
if we as u suggest boost x% dmg. Then on top add templocks self healing + debuffs. Which eventually kill reason play with other warlocks trees. Why bother with furry if u can have decent dmg + debuff + higher survivability?
Why bother with damination and wait till soul puppet kill monsters if u can have decent dmg + debufs + higher survivability?
in mod 5 lot of players where templocks because it was almost immortal and plus it was not bounded to curse mechanic(3 targets) as furry where.
I read your suggestion, and it's sounds to making warlock more to dc/op. Now u will have decent dmg + healing with every hit.
Sure I would like to buff temptlocks. But with this it would cause epic rage from Op and DC community not due healing. But because warlock will be able cause more dmg than they do + heal.
From my view point I can only suggest make debuffs which temptation warlock cause to be more harsh and cause bigger bad stats than they does now and boost up life steal rates + chances.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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Its kinda weird that they've staved off major changes to Tempt for now when they seem to be pushing through for Combat HRs, which I'd prob put in a worse state atm :x
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that said, and it's not entirely liited to SW each tree should realy push a class in a direction
Fury: damage dealer
Damnation: puppet
Temptation: support (be it buff/debuff or heal). for now everyone is aware that the temptation tree is not up to stuff beacause it essentialy do a 'litle bit of this, and that!' but it does nothing specifically
I would realy like something more like a T4-T5-capstone feats rework in the lines maybe of 'if you or a member of your team strikes a cursed target, then a effect similar to feytouched enchant applies' ot 'cursed targets take %more CA damage' or 'your team gets x% additional deflect chance against cursed target' and the capstone could be 'when a member of your team lifesteal, every member of the team lifesteal on their next attack with the highest lifesteal severity of the team. Additionaly, your lesser curse lasts twice as long and vampiric embrace heal is considered as lifesteal'
in all the examples above, cursed mean any curse. O f course it would need some serious thinking through to avoid any ITF come back but with this
Granted the lifesteal in this game is a problem as it's defense based on offense. Something the devs didn't like in reverse with ITF. Hopefully future changes will correct this issue.
So slight problem can lead for another Murderous flames bug abusing.
Well if we look to furry tree his dmg are around curse mechanic: ( I use old wiki stats) So if I attack cursed single target, = 20% curse mechanic + 10% Brutal Curse + 5% weapon damage + if u killed cursed target before your dmg is increased by 5%.
Sounds freaky powerful boost. But its all as coin which have 2 sides. And negative side is no curse = no benefits.
So obvious that furry HB will stay with: Pity, No Mercy and all consuming curse class features. While Flames of Empowerment and its changes will be used for Temptation or Damination.
I would really love if temptation warlocks tree will have more harsh debuffs, more better buffs and improved healing.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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Now it does 50% weapon damage, so 1200-50% or 1200*0,5= 600 damage, remember it isn't piercing damage, so 600-%DR.
Now if it added some utility it might be a different story. It's AoE damage feat could also slow the movement speed allowing people to have trouble chasing or running away. The 10% damage reduction while the puppet is summoned could be tripled for pvp.
As for tenacity. Nahh, I prefer that soul puppet would get over all percentage of players stats rather than tenacity only. In of my posts in this thread, I suggested to change current Wraith of shadow encounter. So that it would throw spider web like final boss in Spider temple.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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If you go solo against a dummy your maximum benefit for creeping death, in case you spammed WC in a 100% propper way, is allways:
your damage + 60% CD, calculated by the damage you did. Act is spitting a maximum damage dealt by CD of about 60/160=37,5% overall damage by Creeping death. I never did more, many times less damage with this unhandy capstone.
In a party I never dealt more than 37,5% damage with creeping death. It´s allways something about 16% (if I am lucky) or worse, never ever happened to overperform in my case. Maybe I missed my TAB too much times...in the end I left fury due to this "nonesense-no-fun-perma-TAB-spammer-capstone".
If CD would be buffed sepearely, there should happen crazy single blows not corresponding to the dealt damage, but there aren´t as far as I know.
A team of two player should be able to demonstrate it like GF casting ITF after warlock casted a DoT on a target.
I think CD is punished by tenacity and maybe block or other layers a second/third time in PVP. Can´t say if damageresist also is involved two times but this may be tested by hitting a dummy (as far as they got DR) with zero RI and with ful RI leading to far worse results than 37% damage from CD at low RI.
I also doubt, that CD will deal insane high results against a target with low defense in PVP. It will allways be worse than results in PVE as long as the target has any kind of tenacity and it never dealt insane numbers by megabuffs in my case.
It´s allways tied to the inital hit/damage and punished obviuosly in PVP a second time leading to hit´s like "16" against GF´s.
That´s my observation so far, but maybe I lost some important points in my calculations.
What bother me in this discussion is: some classes deal 50-100k hits with single encounter or at wills in PVP and cry rivers, the moment their damage gets downscaled and we have to fight for improvements of some rediculesly underwhelming feats/powers leading to improvement like CD will maybe deal 24 instead of 16 damage against a shielded GF or GWF at full DR/defense.
There is no real improvement as far as I can predict the coming changes, wich can be considered to be a thread against some of those classes, I also know that it is not an easy task and it should not be overdone by buffing things too much.
We have to fight on node in leatherarmor and have to facetank some classes with platemail , highest burst abilies, but our damageoutput against those classes is redicouless, them having piercing/deflect/shield/dodge/immunity frames (TR can be 100% immune if he likes to) plus same mobilty or better in some asepects.
Talking about GF, I read about player who would like to get even more mobility from ITF buff, having easy game with all those caster classes, no need to switch their rotation any time, sticking with ITF/BC/Anvil or even KC 100% for ever.
Atm you run faster than a warlock by casting ITF, only a templock can stay at distance, on top that class can use several encounter/atwill as gapcloser or slow target or cc target: Knee breaker, lounging strike, frontline surge, threatening rush, bullcharge , indomitable strenght, line breaker assault ... I think that´s enough to get in range, right?
Even their DOt´s seem to be more powerfull on paper, talking about jagged blades a 750% weapondamage-Dot on crit.. i can´t find anything compareable in warlock´s feat tree.
How do I get this couloured in blue?
Again....creeping death should be piercing and not dowscaled two times by powers like shield, tenacity and more.
Temptation capstone should not be punished two times from healing depression in PVP, once deminished is far enough.
So please stop the outgoing heals from being capped by healing depression , you allready get punisehd by limited effect of lifesteal, this could make temptation be at least a supporter, though he is hardly able to kill some classes. Even doing so we will never ever reach the power of a DC making your whole party immune to death at higher levels.
--2k SW, still very squishy, found savages on the summer fest, that will help him/her a lot surviving and still contributing to party heal, his static ls is 4000(10%), the feated ls will raise it to 13%, the final ls will be 23% wich will result in modest healing, increasing the % of heal based on your life steal to 150% will increase that heal without increase SW survival wich is already well buffed by feats, the only thing left to make sure is that the player wont heal too much, like OP devotion because it's suposed to be a suport dps( they will rage either way, let them cry), not a full support, for that we set a cap on soul bonding resulting in heal meaning endgame will only see it's healing increased by increasing damage wich makes sence, SW is a DPS class, no matter wich buffs provide still needs to contribute with dps, the "too much healing" would be seen in players with crazy high dps as 2k players would be abble to give the main healer a much better help in the content made for their's IL.
And SW cant get much heavier debuffs/buffs in terms of damage for a simple reason, atm on preview if you build temptation HB for example you will be offering your party:
debuff on single target from hand of blight, 5% damage reduction from aura of despair, 5% damage reduction from hellish condemnation, compounded soul, 30% damage reduction from WoS that can be perfectly used as dps power in single target, dark revelry, infernal wrath, pillar of power, shared buffs or damage resistance lower on the target, DT DR and damage reduction up to 3 targets, almost all this can be provided without going for soul bonding, so if there should be a introduction to party buffs to temptatio it would either be small, but noticeable enough to make it worth or reduce on the powers above and big a heavier buff on temptation.