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Official Feedback Thread: Scourge Warlock changes

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  • treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    Darkness + Sehanine = BOOM!

    This sehanine bug has been going since module 6 it's very rare to happen/to be perciptible because it requires a very good dps outcome to be noticeable, in the last few months always runing with a sehanine on my tanks i've seen this only 2 times, never the less it needs to be fixed.

  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    Damnation was overnerfed and not really tweaked enough to make a difference. More of a solo gimmick now.

    Fury can't compete with GWFs. Temptation was never touched. I'd say the rebalancing for the SW was a disaster.

    Improved ability to do solo content.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    agante22 said:

    Got several more competitive 1 v 1 s in preview pvp over past 2 days and all my attempts at staying positive pretty much are gone out the window. Majority of HR's on test have dialed in their builds with wild medicine healing making them impossible to kill and piercing damage on properly specced toons is a death sentence 1-2 shot. Top tier GFs rolling through easily are putting smack down on me.


    Don't worry you will adapt to new game style. < in pvp u will grab flowers in your arm, lay on the ground, close eyes and die. < Because even if u fight, u die by 1 or 2 hits anyway. < And if enemy is afk its healing/regeneration factors still beat your dps..
    So don't worry, warlock still have role in pvp, and its called >>Victim<<.
    Also look from bring side, enemy teams will be extreme happy to see warlock in pvp who provide easy points. :)


    <blockquote class="UserQuote">
    agante22 said:

    Just loaded launcher and the count down meter to Mod10 release is reading more like a death clock to all Warlocks. Heres to Dev team putting in some work before launch!



    Indeed, this count down looks like for warlocks funeral.

    So lets see,, since this warlock balancing stuff started, In live and preview server met about 14 warlocks.
    7 from 14 giving up on this class.
    2 from 7 where HB, and 1 of them giving up on dps and go to temptation. other claimed respect to SB.
    1 from 5 soulbinders claim respect to HB and become temtation due PoP.
    As for those non 70lv warlocks which I met, only 1 claimed that he will play with warlock. And ~10 others lv up just for class artifact and warehouse space..

    So its not so bad after all. Not like all warlocks gona die.
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    I only hope Piercing Blades get a fix.
    I am not that surprised about the current situation, since warlock relied heavily on bugs, wich had to go.
    Too much to fill this hole by switching and tuning some powers from left to right.
    I admit that i am pretty disappointed about the poor outcome regarding PVP and Hellbringer...waited for 2years, lol
  • d4rkh0rs3d4rkh0rs3 Member Posts: 382 Arc User
    Taken from the mod 10 GF class balance thread:

    "For this module, the intent is to move things in the right direction, not arrive at 'all better now.'"

    - @amenar

    Keep this in mind while we work through our struggles. :)
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User

    I only hope Piercing Blades get a fix.

    I am not that surprised about the current situation, since warlock relied heavily on bugs, wich had to go.

    Too much to fill this hole by switching and tuning some powers from left to right.

    I admit that i am pretty disappointed about the poor outcome regarding PVP and Hellbringer...waited for 2years, lol

    It;s not problem with warlock only. The problem is which way game going. Until mod 6, Dodging was key reason to survive fights, not absorb incoming hits with gear. Game was more active than now. Also 5 most important stuffs in fight changes.
    in old times
    1) skills- know right moment to dodge and then counterattack.
    2) teamwork - there was no place for such stuffs, and only some ~0.5% of nwo population could do some dungeons solo.
    3) role playing. = cw used more CC, dc more heal and buff, Gf was tank, hr Cc + dps. gwf dps.
    4)good encounter sets and boons combinations.
    5) gear

    now
    1)gear
    2)sh and other boons
    3)companions
    4)insignias +mount
    5) party buffs

    Thats mean no space for skills, no space for teamwork, and no space for role playing.

    When entering dungeon now many players rush to race in who is better paingiver and executioner. DC's give up heal/buff and focus on dps and debuff. CW rush in front of group in order to blast as many monsters he can. gwf dash in largest enemy group swinging at wills, but no dodge, he eat all incoming hits, and latter in forum complain that his character need extra survivability buff.

    Some guys compare builds by how many power rotations it can survive. Which mean more like classic mmorpg. rather than action mmorpg which require dodging.


    In mod 4, mod 5 was dodge mechanic most important stuff in gameplay. And thats why I and lot of other players came here to play neverwinter online.

    If I wanted classic styled mmorpg fights I will back to lineage 2 where daily mass pvp looks like this.

    And its not even largest fight. And they last for hours not 10 min like in neverwinter..
    But they lack real action mechanics as nwo. But even in that video you can notice, mages use teleport, rogues stealth. So more like its become very close to neverwinter. So if neverwinter keep going to classic mmorpg style = no points to stay here.

    Before neverwinter I played RaiderZ, great game, slow developers with their content developing.. Perfect World Inc published it.
    Even its already gone, neverwinter developers could learn from raiderz a lot. For example, here in neverwinter boss/dragon fights are boring. Compared to what raiderz offered when it was on.


    There was simple rule, fail dodge = u die. And only top end gear give chance survive some incoming hits. And there classic mmorpg styled pvp/pve players died a lot.

    They are more agile and more active than any neverwinter boss. Maybe only epic Temple Of Spiders final boss offer some fun, orcus maybe strong, but even after buffing his brain activity still is have bad AI and its not big problem when party fight as team.

    Not mentioned neverwitner is way to rewarding. new gear peaces in month or two become mainstream gear.

    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • banqrupbanqrup Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    As a 4k SW xbox player I am becoming very discouraged by what I'm reading. It is bothersome that this is happening to well built/well stat SWs. I'm looking forward to the drop of mediocrity in the SW population because of bug fixes, BUT I'm not looking forward to being out DPSed by nearly all other classes with similar or lower skillset. Frankly a control class (CW/HR) should control. A support class (GF/OP/DC) should support. And a freaking sole based DPS class (SW) shouldn't need to be carried by all of the above.
    I hope come this weekend I read of good results but I'm skeptical at the moment.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    To be fair, in my own comparisons say w/ the CWs, the one w/ considerably higher dps was Thaum- the 'selfish dps' tree for CWs. I think its alright for classes that aren't 100% strikers to have an option that goes that route- just really depends on a sort of cost-benefit analysis: ie. what is gained and what is lost to opportunity cost, and if what is gained is seen as 'too much' of a total package.

    I mean, SW's do have CC options atm, they just somewhat under-perform in general or have some drawback that's prob not fully warranted (Arms: long cast time, narrow cone, low dps, and very brief cc duration- each of these on their own isn't necc bad but the combo of them all is; Harrowstorm's slow casting anim, Wraith's Shadow's general clunkiness- esp w/ regards to its debuffing power, etc).

    I am def liking HB much more than before, though. The changes are encouraging, but ofc much more needs to be done if we're talking relative class parity.
    ________________
    <CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
    - Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    flowcyto said:

    To be fair, in my own comparisons say w/ the CWs, the one w/ considerably higher dps was Thaum- the 'selfish dps' tree for CWs. I think its alright for classes that aren't 100% strikers to have an option that goes that route- just really depends on a sort of cost-benefit analysis: ie. what is gained and what is lost to opportunity cost, and if what is gained is seen as 'too much' of a total package.

    I mean, SW's do have CC options atm, they just somewhat under-perform in general or have some drawback that's prob not fully warranted (Arms: long cast time, narrow cone, low dps, and very brief cc duration- each of these on their own isn't necc bad but the combo of them all is; Harrowstorm's slow casting anim, Wraith's Shadow's general clunkiness- esp w/ regards to its debuffing power, etc).

    I am def liking HB much more than before, though. The changes are encouraging, but ofc much more needs to be done if we're talking relative class parity.

    The difference between SW and CW is that CW's own encounters are enhanced by things other than it's raw damage. SW is at the mercy of how much damage it's powers deal, CW buffs them up so something originally weak as hell like icy terrain become radioactive and melt HAMSTER.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    d4rkh0rs3 said:




    @zeusom @ghoulz66 Every class struggles with how "overpowered" GFs are in PvP, as @macjae stated. Therefore, the focus should be directed towards GF encounters in PvP rather than augmenting each other individual class to handle it. An issue I pointed out with GFs is it is difficult to balance PvE encounters with PvP gameplay. If you nerf GF encounters too hard to compensate for PvP, it will be miserable for GFs to complete campaigns and daily quests. There's a fine balance, that's all. :)

    They already have the coding for this with Disheartening Strike. Just apply it to the GF's powers that are over performing in pvp.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    d4rkh0rs3 said:




    @zeusom @ghoulz66 Every class struggles with how "overpowered" GFs are in PvP, as @macjae stated. Therefore, the focus should be directed towards GF encounters in PvP rather than augmenting each other individual class to handle it. An issue I pointed out with GFs is it is difficult to balance PvE encounters with PvP gameplay. If you nerf GF encounters too hard to compensate for PvP, it will be miserable for GFs to complete campaigns and daily quests. There's a fine balance, that's all. :)

    They already have the coding for this with Disheartening Strike. Just apply it to the GF's powers that are over performing.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    amenar said:

    Sorry for the delay everyone. For more details on the how and why of the changes, please check out the dev blogs.

    Hi, Firstly thanks for devs that they finally starting work with warlocks class problems and power balance..

    Now after 8 hours spending in preview server and running around with hellbringer furry warlock I notice couple stuffs..

    Over all, I expected more. I know its still not final and I hope lot of changes come in future.. After all small these cosmetic changes do not fix real problems...
    Firstly devs wondering why warlocks TT is most used daily power..
    Well its all simple, warlock have strong Single target encounters, but bad when comes aoe. So with TT u hit cursed target with strong single target encounters, and via TT curse link cause damage to all monsters around marked one...



    Bug: Power: Accursed Souls
    Power do not apply lesser curse to all targets who get hit with this power.


    Bug: Power: Tyrannical Curse (Tyrannical Threat)
    Power do not link damage with nearby enemies. Tested with monsters and training dummies.


    Feedbacks.



    =========================================================================
    Feedback: Daily Power: Accursed Souls
    The idea to apply lesser curse sounds good, but only sounds.. This daily power will still remain as panic button when warlock is surrounded by group of monsters, and it is close to death. And even if u cast it, u are not sure u will survive anyways.. Its kinda usual scenario, u start cast this daily power, hands rise up and your HP fully restored, soul puppet summoned, once warlock lay hands down, he also lay on ground dead. Because monsters still keep hitting him..

    My suggestion Accursed souls after its absorb souls/life to retore HP, should either stun As Cw's seal of time or push away enemies as Dc's sun burst. Because its kinda usual scenario after using it, even if u fully restore HP, in the end of casting time u either hit ground dead or manage to run away with 15% HP.


    =============================================================================
    Feedback: Daily Power: Tyrannical curse
    Power reduction from 40% to 20% I can understand and tolerate, But Disabling possibility to build chain TT splash damage is way to radical changing.. Since warlock class introduction all his dmg output where around 2 major powers.. Tyrannical Threat and Dreadtheft.

    Old mechanic,
    Before these changes I used to do: cast TT, mark 3 targets, on first one cast warlock bargain, on next one hadar grasp, and on third or even if possible hit them all with Dreadtheft. Then chain reaction starts, and spash damage from either first, or second or third one hit each other and damage numbers start to fill your screen, With that I could rival CW's Icy terain + seal of time, + Spellstorm + eye of storm combination..

    After new changes, CW can laugh to warlocks face, because he don't have anything who could even little bit match its damage outcome.
    So with changes from TT to TC we get
    -power decrease from 40% to 20% ( by half)
    - remove possible Chain slash damage thats about half of possible dmg...
    Over all TC is just TT with cut by 70%. of its powers..

    Mod 6 forced my warlock quit pvp, this TC will force me to quit epic dungeons... And I got confused do we buffing or nerfing warlock???


    Suggestion: TC should apply either lesser curse to all monsters/victims who receive linked damage from cursed one.
    Or slow down all targets around cursed one, or any other effect to compensate this power decreasing.
    Among possible solution is get back to old mechanic, but with tweaks, like: remain possibility to curse 3 targets as usual curse mechanic, but also decreasing/spliting dmg output between of them..

    =======================================================================

    Feedback: Daily Power: Flames of Phlegethos
    I think its still good daily power, even better than gate of hell when comes damage output.
    I think daily power need to be little/minor buff or add small extra feature.

    suggestion
    Boost dot dmg output by ~10%, or add feature to reduce outgoing dmg from target who is affected by this power.

    ==============================================================================

    Feedback: Daily Power: Gate of Hell
    I just love new changes.. Removes requirement to act as tank/victim, also decrease miss rate because it cast and effect time is faster. But over all even with Gatekeeper's Empowerment feat, it can't do as much dps as TT/TC.
    Its good only for minor/trash monster cleaning..

    suggestion
    Gate of hell should last longer, and instead spiting hell fire once, could stay for up 2s, and keep doing damage in that area... This will proc creeping death for furry tree, as for temptation it will be big dmg boost anyways..

    Second possible solution is to change Gate of hell mechanic, instead spiting hell fire, after warlock summon it, remain for duration time by 2s. add effect which dragging/pulling monsters to gate and draining their HP. Similar like giant monsters does in >throne of dwarf king<
    pvp< if player dies in gate of hell effect area, he cannot be revived, his soul now is in hell :)

    =======================================================================

    ========================================================
    Feedback: Encounter Power: Curse bite

    Require rework. U can curse up to 3 targets, lets say u are lucky and All-Consuming Curse provided couple lesser curses..
    Still dmg output is low, to point that at wills are better option to use than this encounter..

    =====================================================================


    Feedback: Power: Infernal Spheres
    Finally these balls gets some buff, but downside is simple, firstly u cannot control when u release them, thats mean even with 1 HP monsters get near u, and it force release them and in chain reaction u lose damage resistance by 5%
    per sphere.

    Suggestion: After summoning Infernal spheres, they stay in stand by mode, they do not attack anyone, and provide damage resistance and enable HP regeneration or any other benefits.
    When caster hit Encounter again, spheres goes to battle mode, and start seeking enemies..
    In other words gives us ability to choose when to release them and when hold them for better moment..


    ========================================================

    Feedback: Power: Vampiric Embrace
    Old:: Old Curse Consume:
    "Rip the life essence from your target, dealing damage and converting 75% of that damage into Hit Points.
    Gain Temporary Hit Points equal to half the amount of health stolen. Curse is expended"
    So even with 10% even if it would had 20% dmg boost, still it remains good until unlock warlock bargain. But even before that, dmg output is bad so probably it will be exchanged to fiery bolt, or any other necounter.


    Suggestion:
    Merge Vampiric embrace with Curse Bite. "Deals damage to your Cursed targets + Rip the life essence from your target and converting 70% of that damage into Hit Points. + for next ~2s, caster gain temp shield which block part of incoming damage..

    ==============================================================


    Feedback: Power: Dreadtheft
    The one of encounters which never leave my bar when comes pve, and only in mod 5 it where replaced during pvp.. I think there is no other encounter which can replace it by its dmg output when comes single or aoe,
    Good side u can walk while using this power.
    And during these 8 hour time, I didn't notice any big changes at all..


    Suggestion: Instead boosting DR for caster, I would go with idea like: enemies affected by this encounter does reduced dmg outcome. This will make DT work more as debuff and will give bigger benefits to all party members not to warlock only..

    ==================================================================

    Feedback: Power: Fiery Bolt
    Casting time reduced, so in non epic dungeons become more useful. But in epic dungeons are not, Firstly total dmg output even on cursed target is low compared to warlock bargain, hadar grasp, even wraith of shadows. For furry tree warlock this encounter now proc creeping death, but the amount it proc is really low.


    Suggestion:
    kinda wild one had since old time... User release Fiery Bolt, which cause 35% of its damage to all enemies who where hitted , and apply DoT for up 3seconds , when player hit encounter again or 3s time ends, it cause Eldritch Flame explosion, which remove DoT effect but cause explosion which damage is ~75% of power + causing 15% damage to monsters around by range 5'.
    This will make like, u hit with this encounter, cause minor damage + mark enemies, then after hiting again initiate full dmg explosion.

    Or second idea, on rank 4 boost dmg output by 10% + add dot effect for ~5s.
    anyways, we need encounter which would be good in epic dungeons too not only against weak monsters.
    ,

    ====================================================================

    p.s I could write here also my opinion about class feature which I think for hellbringers need to rework...



    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
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