Any class changes or rebalancing confirmed?

jugger71

lirithiel said:

Cryptic are handing out Retraining Tokens like candy. Don't expect a freebie as a result of any changes made to your class.

Seriously? "Handing out like candy... dont expect a freebie". Lol you made my argument for me.

kitkathd

flyingleon said:

I believe ITF will get a nerf but I also think how knight valor works now makes all dps classes getting lazy to dodge red zones. I know people does not like nerf words, but a nerf to KV is not actually a nerf to GF but to other squizy classes. KV should has some time restrications(some CD) or only works in a small region near GF. I would happily to see KV to be useful only at particular situations.

You do realize that a KV nerf will happen regardless right? Paladin's bubble was nerfed and it was a party buff not even for the pally. Welcome to the nerf zone. Where great games send their customers to quit.

thefabricant

I am looking forward to seeing what changes the devs have in store for us.

flyingleon

@kitkathd, no, I am not so sure. Actually all the class changes have been mentioned at the beginning of the year in one open letter. And they took long time to implemented the changes. I believe GF has already one major update in the near past and I would guess the changes this time for GF is a 'emergency move'.

Anyway, I am just up for any changes to shake things a bit in thus game.

silence1x

If nothing else, this game does provide us with ample opportunities to adapt to changes. No one wants his/her main class to get nerfed into oblivion but we've all had to change our builds/playstyles in the past; this one won't be any different in that regard.

dannydark007

defiantone99 said:

Ya, I would love to dust off my Sentinel and go tanking. But, the Sabo one is a hard nerf and not needed.

Hmm, I was thinking of it as a buff to Saboteur: You usually regain stealth much more often than every 15 seconds and I was suggesting every time you enter stealth you gain One with Shadows... and adding my suggested: Every time you deal critical damage outside of stealth you refill 5% of your Stealth Meter will guarantee that...

As with everything it would need testing: but being able to dictate when a buff is used is usually MUCH more valuable than a fixed up-time out of your control.

dannydark007

silence1x said:

dannydark007#2612 said:

Balance between classes is needed, yes, but let's also not forget internal balance changes between paragon feat trees and paragon paths. Some Ideas:

Healing Specs: DP Light, DC Virtuous, DC Faithful (SW Temptation): All of these need some sort of passive party damage mitigation as part of their capstone: a healer is useless if most of the danger comes from one shot kills... Perhaps it could be something like: Every 360 seconds damage that would normally kill an Ally within 30 ft instead drops them to 5% HP.

Control Specs PVE: CW Oppressor, GWF Instigator, TR Scoundrel: All of these need a +% damage buff on their control powers vs control immune targets in PVE. The +Weapon Damage of the Oppressor is not near enough, it needs to be something like: Your Control powers deal double damage plus extra damage determined by your Control Bonus (+1% per 10 Control Bonus Stat) against control immune targets as part of the Capstone. (Note: I did not include the HR Trapper here because they are already the premier PVE Spec for that class.)

Others: These are the specs that are never played in PVE they need something to make them viable:

GW Sentinel: The GWF Tank Spec, needs to actually be able to fulfill that role. Doubling the Mitigation of Living Wall would be a start for the party plus he actually needs to be able to take a hit from Orcus w/o falling dead since he has no at will shield like a GF or Prot Pally... Perhaps: You gain a percentage of the damage you deal as stacking Temp HP as part of the Capstone to work as a buffer.

HR Archery: Needs to do competitive damage with Trapper, probably with a single target focus. Increase Prey to a 60% bonus and add: In Addition, your Prey does 10% less damage to you.

HR Combat: Always in close and dangerous needs more survival and more damage: Blade Hurricane: Reduce the once every 5 seconds limit on Flurry to once per second. Battle Crazed also adds Deflect = to the Life Steal bonus. Fluid Hunter adds 1/2/3/4/5 Deflect.

SW Temptation: The Utility Spec: A big boost to native lifesteal plus more actual party utility is needed: Aura of Despair: Add Allies within 30’ deal 1/2/3/4/5% more damage. Aura of Cruelty: Add Enemies within 30’ take 1/2/3/4/5% more Damage. (Increase all effects to 30’ for both) Darkness: Make the damage reduction universal, not just personal. Soul Bonding (Capstone): Add: Additionally your Life Steal chance is increased by 15%.

TR: Whisper Knife PVE: A just out of melee range spec that does viable damage in PVE would be nice: Dagger Threat (Class Feature): Does +5/10/15/20% within 20’ and +2.5/5/7.5/10% more damage at any range. Disheartening Strike (At Will): Reduce the Damage they deal to everyone (not just you). Vengeance Pursuit (Encounter): Remove The target deals reduced damage and ADD: the target takes increased damage of 3/6/9/12% from all sources. Razor Action (Class Feature): Increase the base damage. Hateful Knives (Daily): Add: and refills your Stamina. (So you can roll out of melee.) Advantageous Position: Make the 20% damage reduction universal not just ranged.

TR Saboteur: One with Shadows (Capstone): change One with Shadows from every 15 Seconds to: Every time you deal critical damage outside of stealth you refill 5% of your Stealth Meter. When you Enter Stealth you gain One with Shadows: All your powers deal 20% increased damage while in stealth and for 10 seconds after leaving stealth.

TR Scoundrel: Skull Cracker (Capstone): change from every 15 Seconds to: The first Encounter power you use after leaving Stealth now also Dazes the target(s). In Addition when your stealth meter is empty you dealt 25% more damage. This bonus diminishes as you fill your stealth meter.

Just some thoughts...

Wow - for a first post, you've checked quite a few boxes on my balance list. Nicely done danny.

Thank you, I would love it if they reworked some options to put more viable builds back in the game.

dannydark007

strumslinger said:

Should be a blog on class balance next week. The major changes are going to the SW, HR and the GF.

I do want to say that complete class balance will almost never happen in any game. I'm a huge fighting game fan myself, which is a genre that relies the heaviest on a balanced roster of fighters, but at the end, a tier list always pops up with some characters performing better than others. Can we get closer to a more balanced game? Sure! I hope the changes do just that.

They should also go on Preview pretty soon for everyone to test.

This is disappointing. I was hoping for a comprehensive class balance pass, not just a nerf pass. Building up the lesser used classes and specs is much more what the game needs. I understand if GF ITF needs limiting (perhaps limit it to just the DR listed on the character sheet, though you are giving up a lot of interesting class synergy there), but do it right and build up the lesser used specs and classes at the same time...

dannydark007

kitkathd said:

flyingleon said:

I believe ITF will get a nerf but I also think how knight valor works now makes all dps classes getting lazy to dodge red zones. I know people does not like nerf words, but a nerf to KV is not actually a nerf to GF but to other squizy classes. KV should has some time restrications(some CD) or only works in a small region near GF. I would happily to see KV to be useful only at particular situations.

You do realize that a KV nerf will happen regardless right? Paladin's bubble was nerfed and it was a party buff not even for the pally. Welcome to the nerf zone. Where great games send their customers to quit.

I don't think Knights Valor needs a change at all, ITF perhaps, but not Knights Valor. Reduce fray if you must but I think KV is working as intended and let me tell you a 50% hit from Orcus still drops ANY other class (AND THE GF unless his shield is up and positioned correctly as well...)

hawkeyel

Knights Valor is broken at rank 4 so if nothing else it does need a fix.

alliera7311

For HRs Blade Storm not working with Plant Growth needs fixed. Aspect of the Pack Rank 4 needs fixed. Cruel Recovery doesn't work at all and needs fixed. Aspect the Serpent doesn't display 5% crit at max stacks says 4%. For everyone Action Point Gain Bonus Stats need fixed the list goes on and on.

alliera7311

DC buffs interaction withs GF buffs is where the major unbalance is. Run a top shelf class VS a top shelf class with equal skill with no buffs and it's pretty balanced. Investigate GFs Into the Fray, DCs Hollowed Ground, and Astral Shield combination together.

deathbeez

dannydark007#2612 said:

This is disappointing. I was hoping for a comprehensive class balance pass, not just a nerf pass. Building up the lesser used classes and specs is much more what the game needs. I understand if GF ITF needs limiting (perhaps limit it to just the DR listed on the character sheet, though you are giving up a lot of interesting class synergy there), but do it right and build up the lesser used specs and classes at the same time...

It's super disappointing. The dev's bent to the complaining to the PvP mob (again). You know, there are other games that have to deal with the nerf them/buff me situation, but they deal with it a whole lot better then this lynch-mob policy in-motion. Watching this game evolve is like watching a capstone class-project from a 2-year college. No learning from past mistakes. Zero foresight. Always quick and dirty solutions. Always putting out fires instead of brainstorming how to avoid the fires in the first place. No wonder Atari rans for the hills.

The GF was good and wanted again for a few months after tanking was no longer needed up to mod 5 then Paladins put them on the unemployment line in mod 6 and later.
Then got made a hybrid and turned DPS buffer with some himself when this game is now nothing more, in a nutshell, then a DPS fest. DPS is the currency of PvE. It's pretty much what everyone wants,desires, and argues about. PvP it's all about wining no matter the cost (real cost too), and every dirty trick in the book. If they can't track down bots, they can't enforce PvP anti-hacks. It's a lost cause. Don't bring PvP arguments into PvE. Nice neighborhoods have fences for a reason!

GF's have a smaller voice. They got the nerf. There are such bigger issues, but this is a convenient 'shut them up' move. That and PvP'ers masquerading as concerned PvE'er with a concern towards class balance infiltrated the larger topic and got their agendas pushed into an emergency hotfix. Well played.

hawkeyel said:

Knights Valor is broken at rank 4 so if nothing else it does need a fix.

RIGHT!?
It's because KV doesn't generate, create, or increase DPS, no one gives a **** about it right now.
If balance was on the menu, all things would be dissected in the name of quality. But it's always about the DPS.

flyingleon said:

I would guess the changes this time for GF is a 'emergency move'.

It wasn't mentioned on the Twitch stream. They specifically said HRs and SWs *only*. So how did the list get updated?

flyingleon

deathbeez said:

flyingleon said:

I would guess the changes this time for GF is a 'emergency move'.

It wasn't mentioned on the Twitch stream. They specifically said HRs and SWs *only*. So how did the list get updated?

Andy said the changes including GF in this thread: 'strumslinger said:
Should be a blog on class balance next week. The major changes are going to the SW, HR and the GF.'

hypervoreian

There will never be class balance untill all the buffs that overperforming are balanced.

for example Hidden Daggers is a prime example.An encounter that gives +40% permanent damage.8 secs ICD,8 secs duration,three charges.

None of other DPS classes has this kind of a buff.For the sake of balance this power needs adjustment.

Other DPS classes are reworked (HR/SW).GWF will need its rework soon since it is the class that leads DPS charts and according to a dev stream "GWFS do too much damage"

I just write this cause i am a fan of balance and i want the game to thrive.This cannot be achieved by the DPS domination of one class.

I think GWF class should have a serious look again and especially all the mod6 buffs.They were totally unneeded.

It was armpen bug that was killing the GWFs ,not the class as a design.Since the bug is fixed,the buffs need to go.

Thanks

jugger71

My question is how did the HR pop in there? Shouldnt be DC, GF, GWF with a splash of a fix to SW?

I got no idea.... Stunned really.

fastrean3

The class on the nerf table up and down~up and down~up and down~the class on the nerf table up and down~Cryptic do it all day long~ :*

Everyone here are alll with their hidden agendas that offending & defending the classes they like & dislike >:)

Hmm...it looks like better to play all classes, no matter what ever buff & nerf, you will still play on top

strumslinger

As you'll see in the very near future, our main focus on this round of class balances is to make other paths and builds viable.

lantern22

fastrean3 said:

The class on the nerf table up and down~up and down~up and down~the class on the nerf table up and down~Cryptic do it all day long~ :*



Everyone here are alll with their hidden agendas that offending & defending the classes they like & dislike >:)



Hmm...it looks like better to play all classes, no matter what ever buff & nerf, you will still play on top

Nerfing classes is bad for the game, except for a small handful of hard core players, ppl get peeved off and leave. Hopefully it is adjustments instead of hard nerfs.

Anyway I have two "main" toons and working on another (GWF) as a mitigation strategy.

I must say from what Andy just posted, I'm hopeful of some sensible balancing to be done.

Time to wait and see what the future has in store . . . . .

lantern22

defiantone99 said:

I hope Archery, Oppressor, and Sentinel will be made viable.

I hope the new dungeons create a need for control (i.e. Oppressor)

ajlir

deathbeez said:

It's because KV doesn't generate, create, or increase DPS, no one gives a **** about it right now.
If balance was on the menu, all things would be dissected in the name of quality. But it's always about the DPS.

Even within a large crowd, smaller voices in there won't be heard. Punishing Charge rank 4 doesn't have 6 charges and nobody bothered to report it.

urabask

lantern22 said:

fastrean3 said:

The class on the nerf table up and down~up and down~up and down~the class on the nerf table up and down~Cryptic do it all day long~ :*



Everyone here are alll with their hidden agendas that offending & defending the classes they like & dislike >:)



Hmm...it looks like better to play all classes, no matter what ever buff & nerf, you will still play on top

Nerfing classes is bad for the game, except for a small handful of hard core players, ppl get peeved off and leave. Hopefully it is adjustments instead of hard nerfs.

Anyway I have two "main" toons and working on another (GWF) as a mitigation strategy.

I must say from what Andy just posted, I'm hopeful of some sensible balancing to be done.

Time to wait and see what the future has in store . . . . .

ITF got nerfed hard. Hope you guys like taking twice as long in dungeons.

Also killed tank builds and just encourages everyone to go DPS because they don't need to stack defense as hard so there are better artifact choices now.

taitinhakkaaja

strumslinger said:

As you'll see in the very near future, our main focus on this round of class balances is to make other paths and builds viable.

So there is possibility that we can see hellbringer sw's in game soon I'm joining the hype train

jumpingmorks

ITF nerf seems reasonable on preview server, it's back to what it was before adding uncapped dam buff. I hope they hard cap all abilities at 80% it will mean folks will have to build more solid characters and no more 1 billion power DC runs (an extreme example).

thefabricant

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1218295/interum-patchnotes/p1?new=1

Work in Progress patchnotes.