Not being able to quote properly, but regarding your:
"AND if he would really test them both he would have made 2 or 3 observations that make an legendary active companion far superior as an legendary ioun stone."
lmao. Listen, I'll tell you something very very simple on why this is less likely to work for a 100% crit built GWF - it's because the GWF RELIES on that 100% crit to proc the LOL set and do significant amounts of damage due to high crit severity + vorpal, etc. Since an external companion will lower the crit by around 5 - 6k, the crit chance is automatically (also according to ACT) around 10% LESS. Being highly based and reliant on crit is a problem if you're planning to rely on a proc to provide you the stats needed. The first 2 dungeons runs were nearly exact in results (to compare, 320k DPS with Archon, 324k with Ioun) and afterwards it was pretty much kept that way, the companion lost every time by a little bit. I did not save my logs (they ARE saved, just not divided) but if there's a high demand I'm willing to run tests again and post the logs (if my bondings won't sell by then). You can dismiss me all you want but it's a little sad that you refuse to believe something just because someone else who isn't you claims so.
It is not about that i wouldn't believe a bit of DPS drop. It is possible because you are done with your gear progression and the loss of critical strike at the beginning of a battle while it simply takes a bit of time to procc the buff and get the additional damage boost while the combat then is over.
I mean, you are done. Even without any companion you would deal as GWF with BIS Gear/100% critical strike a huge amount of damage, i would guess you would deal more damage as 90% of the rest of the server even without an ioun stone or an active companion. I simply can't believe that you can make such a statement that the companion is -2 to -3% DPS based on various factors in the statistic that simply don't depend on you because 2-3% less or more DPS are in a margin of a statistic where errors can occure, personal playstyle, lagg, etc.
And like i said you would have seen two or three perks the companion still have if you made such a detailed analyse. For example the Infinite Bonding Runestone Procc. If the companion dies the internal cooldown is reset and you can get more than three buffs. Or that you get a lot more hit points in a dungeon because in the background works a scaling system for companions to tripple their hit points in dungeons/skirmishs that are directed to you via the legendary buff.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
As I said, I tested this as a BIS GWF, if a person is able to afford perfect+ bondings on a legendary companion they can also do the same for an augment. This is purely a min/max point of view, I wouldn't go with the Archon or Cambion endgame wise because I end up LOSING DPS, take it or leave it. It's not an invalid choice, if someone thinks it's better for various reasons other than DPS (I don't see any, honestly) then there you have it. And yes DoubleA, in several cases the companion provided a lot less up until the boss (one example was 100m before boss, 150m post boss with the augment and 90m before boss and 150m post boss with the companion) but was a blt more effective against it (for obvious reasons such as larger pool of HP, immobilty outside the arena of both myself and the actual boss, etc.) That alone isn't a good enough reason for me to keep using it though, since a boss is a smaller margin of the actual dungeon or PVE as a whole. It was an expensive trial yet I don't regret conducting it, learned a lot by the process and decided for myself what I like/prefer best. I ruled out the 2 - 3% mainly because there was little to no difference at all between the two, and when there was a difference the Augment won and that's that.
zhen warlock or sprites. melee pets are "OK" as bonding proccers. but ranged attackers have better ai, and dont die as often.
the main reason i think your seeing less dps. is your at 100% crit rate. so the beginning of a fight you lose some crit. and in the middle of a fight you cant have more than 100% crit rate. so its pointless. for the rest of the people playing the game you'll get significantly more stats.
for example. using my cleric with a z warlock. there is a feedback loop between the bob +power buff and bonding procs. add in the zwarlocks stupidly fast cast rate ( no cooldown) and i'll have up to 5 stacks during a boss fight. taking my 2.3k cleric from 13k power to well over 45k. on my newbie healadin it basically doubles his power. using a sylph and gbondings. with the +power aura.
the only char i refuse to try bonding on is my tank. makes pulls and positioning harder when the pets get in the way.
The Zhentarim Warlock has been my Companion almost 6 Months now on my Scourge Warlock. The reasoning is posted in my Guide/Build so feel free to look...
Thus far in all my testing the Zhentrim Warlock, maxed out, is the best Companion for a Scourge Warlock DPS build.
As for the GWF comments, those guys want 100% Crit 100% of the time, so an Augment Stone make sense for them given that fact... No worries there!
So what I've gathered here...is no matter who's post you want to believe in...the difference between the two, damage wise, is not like the OP said. The time of the Ioun stone isn't past....and they both seem to be close enough in benefit that whatever you pick should be fine....
Coke or Pepsi......boxers or briefs......Kanye or or Drake
ok so i have 3 perfect bonding stones on a blue Zhen walrock. my dps has dropped significantly having come from an epci ioun stone. do I need the warlock to be epic for this to truly work?
Tabatha@rotters // Scourge Warlock // Co Leader // Civil Anarchy
We are looking for non elitist guilds to join our alliance.
0
beatannierMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 692Arc User
edited October 2015
Non–augment companion with 3× Bonding runestones rank 10+ gives 30% more ratings than augment companion.
Switching from augment to active companion gives you not only 30% more ratings, but companion active spells, and you can choose from about 100 different companions. Tanks/healers/buffers/controllers/strikers/…
Summoned companion vs Augment companion Augment companion gives 100% their ratings +15% Legendary Bonus. Equipping Bonding Runestones, Rank 10+ into any non–augment companions, gives us stacking +65% companion ratings via Companion's Gift. Companion's Gift lasts 20s and then goes into 10s CD.
This is average: 3× 65% = 195%. 20s vs 10s CD = 66.(6)% uptime. 195% × 66.(6)% = 130% ratings. 130% +15% Legendary Bonus = 145%
This analyzed, Summoned companion gives us average 145%. Compared to augment 115%, it is 30% more ratings. Thus, non–augment companions are absolutely better if equipped with Bonding Runestones, Rank 10+. Besides 30% more ratings, we gain Active, Summoned companion with all its powers. Active companion can be either tank, healer, buffer/debuffer or damage dealer.
Augment companions are the best choice for poor players and wearing any augment companion by even meh–wealthy characters is just irrational as active companions powers provides 30% companion ratings and uses active powers.
If you can`t afford three rank Rank 10+ Bonding Runestones, buy either the best augment: Black Dragon Ioun Stone, or just a cheapier one.
In summary, non–augment gives you:
+30% more companion ratings (it's like 3rd ring on our character)
its companion spells
Why so many people then still uses augments? Common mistakes:
Too shallow tests (like mine, fortunatelly ironzerg corrected me)
Taking not legendary companions
Taking less than 3 bonding runestones
Taking bonding runestones rank < 10
Corrections to common misleadings:
If companion dies, we keep our companion's gift
If companion dies, it wakes up upto 15s, not mentioning Liira's Bell
Companions are invicible to most of damage sources (unlike players)
With good tank or contoller, there is no way a companion can die (because its only enemy is either tanked or controlled)
Other issues
No enough money to buy 3× rank 10+ bonding runestones (~3m AD atm)
Following the majority. Unfortunatelly, many people lack of self testing and rather looking at others, in this case, loosing 30% of companion ratings.
Aversion to leave augment, because of affection or thinking of augment cost as a loss (like "I paid a lot to buy my ioun and then to make it legendary and now you say augments are worse than active companions? Oh no. I'll stick with my stone around my neck!")
I tried it. Companion kept dying and I kept forgetting to resummon. (E.g. Every time I did an eLoL cause of the jumping bridge.)
A *flying* imp companion too! =X So I went back to my stone.
If any foe attacks your companions, it means that your team plays terrible, can't neither control nor tank properly.
Pro tip: Right before first eLoL boss, get on mount, dismiss your companion and summon it again. It will become invincible. If you fail to do so before first eLoL boss, you can do the same, falling down right after defeating first eLoL boss (aka 2nd chance to make your companion invicible). If you still failed, your companion will propably die right before second boss. To simply resummon it, you can simply bind summon/resummon action, simply putting the following code into in–game chat:
A. non augment pets die.. I mean alot, while dead you cannot receive the bonding benefit. There is a limit to there auto re summoning, something I didnt know about.. but during boss fights, you could easily find yourself with NO PET.
There is neither no resummon limit nor your companion can't get dismissed itself. It can become invicible (see above), but never dismissed. Invicible companions are not shown next to character's avatar, cannot take any damage, but still uses its skills and procs bonding runestones.
I am pretty sure you made your companion invicible accidentally and because of no companion avatar, you though it got unsummoned. It's a common issue, that players think that companion got unsummoned while it still exists, and… is immortal.
B. Only a small # of pets attack fast enough to make it worthwhile, limiting you to some offensive pets (btw their damage is pretty weak, even at legendary. )
Companion's gift lasts 20s, then goes into 30s CD once, then into 20s CD once (only on bonding runestone lvl < 10), then into a 10s CD every next time. Almost every (if not all) companions can strike 3 times during 10s.
C. They will engage in the worst sort of aggro at the most awkward times, pulling in extra groups when you do not WANT any..
Some companions are aggresive (like strikers and defenders) while some are peace (like controllers, buffers and healers). If you don't wish to take more adds, simply change a type fo your companion.
D. Like stated above, its only good for certain fast attacking offensive pets, its worthless to stack defensive pets or healers with it. Making this process a limited value. Stating that things hit hard, but you cant even bring a tank pet to the fight is worthless, they should proc off anything a pet does.
If you find healers, tanks and strikers useless, you can still find controllers and buffers useful. And even if don't find 'em useful, remember that they, still, gives you 30% more companion ratings than augments that does nothing, in this case too.
interesting. I've tried this before but the pet just dies far too much. I remember back when my pet could tank some bosses but its instagibs all over the place. Make them only take 20% of their max HP per swing. But, well maybe next year they might do something about it.
Your numbers assume that your companion procs companions gift immediately after the 10s cooldown which is not always the case. So unfortunately the numbers are off a little.
If you went into battle and instantly had 3 stacks of CG for 20 seconds and then it disappeared for 10 seconds before immediately coming back for 20 seconds, THEN your numbers and calculations would be correct. But you forget that it is not instant. It can take a companion 10-15 seconds to proc the 3rd stack of CG. That can mean up to 9-14 seconds that those stats are not applied.
Not saying an augment is better just correcting your numbers and assumptions. Since i am on Xbox I am unable to test the actual numbers. I am using an augment on my main and testing out a companion w/bonding on another though.
One major difference I do notice though is the power addition of the companion. There have been times I was low on health and just dodging while my companions got the final kills and allowed me to live. I am still undecided if it outweighs the down sides though.
My warlock pet gives my cw over 130 percent crit with three stacks and just over 100 percent with 2. Thus I have been able to respec into phantasmal (more crit severity) away from chilling (more crit). It works splendidly. I also have the companion at legendary and rank 12 bondings. Stacks up very fast.
I see Lia's test results show that active companion is a (potential) better choice with perfect bonding. However, you need to have a more flexible stats. If she has 100% crit with argument, some stat just lost when active one get 3 stacks of buff. Keep in mind that argument take one active companion slot, if you use active one, you can replace argument with another companion gives you 4 to 5 percent dps.
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
0
beatannierMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 692Arc User
@boom782 Good note. I didn't toke a care about it, since most companions multiprocs right before the attack ends, 30s (20s gift + 10s CD) is a multiply of 3s, 5s and 6s and those values are usually CDs of companion spells. But right note that not always it shall match the CD and thus, can occur pauses that'll increase this 10s.
On the other hand, we can also note that if fight lasts ~15–20s, then we go to next add group, 10+s pause will occur when we don't fight, thus next 20s will fire right on the next fight begin.
It is dependable and futher debatable, but you pointed an important thing I forgot to say about. Thanks.
The reason why an augment beats a compagnions maybe the latency in getting 2-3 buffs from bondings up. Just lasts about 3-5 seconds By that time every trash mob group is gone esp. being BIS equiped Augment buffs you from the first second compagion doesn't Interesting would be a test in boss fights, that would be the focus for using compagnions imho
Comments
"AND if he would really test them both he would have made 2 or 3 observations that make an legendary active companion far superior as an legendary ioun stone."
lmao. Listen, I'll tell you something very very simple on why this is less likely to work for a 100% crit built GWF - it's because the GWF RELIES on that 100% crit to proc the LOL set and do significant amounts of damage due to high crit severity + vorpal, etc. Since an external companion will lower the crit by around 5 - 6k, the crit chance is automatically (also according to ACT) around 10% LESS. Being highly based and reliant on crit is a problem if you're planning to rely on a proc to provide you the stats needed. The first 2 dungeons runs were nearly exact in results (to compare, 320k DPS with Archon, 324k with Ioun) and afterwards it was pretty much kept that way, the companion lost every time by a little bit. I did not save my logs (they ARE saved, just not divided) but if there's a high demand I'm willing to run tests again and post the logs (if my bondings won't sell by then). You can dismiss me all you want but it's a little sad that you refuse to believe something just because someone else who isn't you claims so.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
I mean, you are done. Even without any companion you would deal as GWF with BIS Gear/100% critical strike a huge amount of damage, i would guess you would deal more damage as 90% of the rest of the server even without an ioun stone or an active companion.
I simply can't believe that you can make such a statement that the companion is -2 to -3% DPS based on various factors in the statistic that simply don't depend on you because 2-3% less or more DPS are in a margin of a statistic where errors can occure, personal playstyle, lagg, etc.
And like i said you would have seen two or three perks the companion still have if you made such a detailed analyse.
For example the Infinite Bonding Runestone Procc. If the companion dies the internal cooldown is reset and you can get more than three buffs. Or that you get a lot more hit points in a dungeon because in the background works a scaling system for companions to tripple their hit points in dungeons/skirmishs that are directed to you via the legendary buff.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
the main reason i think your seeing less dps. is your at 100% crit rate. so the beginning of a fight you lose some crit. and in the middle of a fight you cant have more than 100% crit rate. so its pointless. for the rest of the people playing the game you'll get significantly more stats.
for example. using my cleric with a z warlock. there is a feedback loop between the bob +power buff and bonding procs. add in the zwarlocks stupidly fast cast rate ( no cooldown) and i'll have up to 5 stacks during a boss fight. taking my 2.3k cleric from 13k power to well over 45k.
on my newbie healadin it basically doubles his power. using a sylph and gbondings. with the +power aura.
the only char i refuse to try bonding on is my tank. makes pulls and positioning harder when the pets get in the way.
Thus far in all my testing the Zhentrim Warlock, maxed out, is the best Companion for a Scourge Warlock DPS build.
As for the GWF comments, those guys want 100% Crit 100% of the time, so an Augment Stone make sense for them given that fact... No worries there!
Coke or Pepsi......boxers or briefs......Kanye or or Drake
Tabatha@rotters // Scourge Warlock // Co Leader // Civil Anarchy
We are looking for non elitist guilds to join our alliance.
- Non–augment companion with 3× Bonding runestones rank 10+ gives 30% more ratings than augment companion.
- Switching from augment to active companion gives you not only 30% more ratings, but companion active spells, and you can choose from about 100 different companions. Tanks/healers/buffers/controllers/strikers/…
In summary, non–augment gives you:Why so many people then still uses augments?
Common mistakes:
- Too shallow tests (like mine, fortunatelly ironzerg corrected me)
- Taking not legendary companions
- Taking less than 3 bonding runestones
- Taking bonding runestones rank < 10
Corrections to common misleadings:- If companion dies, we keep our companion's gift
- If companion dies, it wakes up upto 15s, not mentioning Liira's Bell
- Companions are invicible to most of damage sources (unlike players)
- With good tank or contoller, there is no way a companion can die (because its only enemy is either tanked or controlled)
Other issuesComment replies If any foe attacks your companions, it means that your team plays terrible, can't neither control nor tank properly.
Pro tip: Right before first eLoL boss, get on mount, dismiss your companion and summon it again. It will become invincible.
If you fail to do so before first eLoL boss, you can do the same, falling down right after defeating first eLoL boss (aka 2nd chance to make your companion invicible).
If you still failed, your companion will propably die right before second boss. To simply resummon it, you can simply bind summon/resummon action, simply putting the following code into in–game chat:
/bind KEY "gensendmessage Pets_Summon_Unsummon_Button Clicked"where
KEYif the key to bind it to, likeF1.There is neither no resummon limit nor your companion can't get dismissed itself. It can become invicible (see above), but never dismissed. Invicible companions are not shown next to character's avatar, cannot take any damage, but still uses its skills and procs bonding runestones.
I am pretty sure you made your companion invicible accidentally and because of no companion avatar, you though it got unsummoned. It's a common issue, that players think that companion got unsummoned while it still exists, and… is immortal.
Companion's gift lasts 20s, then goes into 30s CD once, then into 20s CD once (only on bonding runestone lvl < 10), then into a 10s CD every next time. Almost every (if not all) companions can strike 3 times during 10s.
Some companions are aggresive (like strikers and defenders) while some are peace (like controllers, buffers and healers). If you don't wish to take more adds, simply change a type fo your companion.
If you find healers, tanks and strikers useless, you can still find controllers and buffers useful. And even if don't find 'em useful, remember that they, still, gives you 30% more companion ratings than augments that does nothing, in this case too.
So, depending on the specific boss you're fighting (think e.g. Garakas) this can have somewhat detrimental effects.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Your numbers assume that your companion procs companions gift immediately after the 10s cooldown which is not always the case. So unfortunately the numbers are off a little.
If you went into battle and instantly had 3 stacks of CG for 20 seconds and then it disappeared for 10 seconds before immediately coming back for 20 seconds, THEN your numbers and calculations would be correct. But you forget that it is not instant. It can take a companion 10-15 seconds to proc the 3rd stack of CG. That can mean up to 9-14 seconds that those stats are not applied.
Not saying an augment is better just correcting your numbers and assumptions. Since i am on Xbox I am unable to test the actual numbers. I am using an augment on my main and testing out a companion w/bonding on another though.
One major difference I do notice though is the power addition of the companion. There have been times I was low on health and just dodging while my companions got the final kills and allowed me to live. I am still undecided if it outweighs the down sides though.
Join the Greycloaks
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician
Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
But right note that not always it shall match the CD and thus, can occur pauses that'll increase this 10s.
On the other hand, we can also note that if fight lasts ~15–20s, then we go to next add group, 10+s pause will occur when we don't fight, thus next 20s will fire right on the next fight begin.
It is dependable and futher debatable, but you pointed an important thing I forgot to say about. Thanks.
Tabatha@rotters // Scourge Warlock // Co Leader // Civil Anarchy
We are looking for non elitist guilds to join our alliance.
Just lasts about 3-5 seconds
By that time every trash mob group is gone esp. being BIS equiped
Augment buffs you from the first second compagion doesn't
Interesting would be a test in boss fights, that would be the focus for using compagnions imho